Brady Quinn (1 Viewer)

[twitch]

I know there was just a Quinn thread recently surrounding Joe's opinion on the guy, but Im digging a little more. Id posted this in the other thread, but for what its worth, I opened this topic because I think Brady Quinn deserves it. And for the record, Im NOT a Browns homer.

I completely agree with Joe on the subject of Quinn. Week 6 as a starting date? Youve got to be kidding me. Certainly, we can't expect that kindof a target to be taken seriously. Cleveland is likely to be 1-5 by then and Crennel will be a lame duck at that point...not that he isnt already. The way I see it, the only way to actually save Crennel's job is to start Quinn out of the gate. You know the team's not going to be good. So you start Frye or Anderson, get off to a 2-4 start, even maybe looking halfway decent. What have you accomplished? Not a thing...not a friggin' thing.

Starting Quinn out of the gate accomplishes a few things. It would give BQ a head start on gaining valubale NFL experience(yes, LUMPS) which he needs to get sooner rather than later. It would give the vast majority of Cleveland fans what they want...to see the face of the franchise actually playing. It would also, imo, take a little pressure OFF Romeo Crennel and his staff. He's a rookie, and he's bound to struggle, but this team is not going to the playoffs anyway.....not a chance. You start Anderson or Frye and youre tricking yourself into actually thinking youre going to win with them.

Why protect the guy? He's started at Notre Dame since his freshman year. This isnt just any old progam......its the limelight of the golden dome. He's a limelighter. I havent heard any Rick Mirer comparison yet to this point, and I expect that good trend to continue. But, so what if he's not 100% prepared. NO rookie really is. This isnt David Carr were talking about..... or Tim Couch.........or Michael Vick. He's not coming from Fresno State, Kentucky or Virginia Tech. This is a guy who's played in the bright lights of Notre Dame. Im not suggesting he's a mortal Hall of Fame lock because of his college background, but I AM suggesting he's used to pressure, used to attention, used to national media heat, and of course used to seeing talented opposition. Brady Quinn is as ready as any rookie QB since Peyton Manning, imo. Manning went 3-13 his rookie year. It was rough. But the next year, they went 13-3. Begin the process, Cleveland!!

Again, not to suggest than any rookie QB is ready for the NFL, but in this case, get your franchise in already. Throw him in the deep end. He'll swim or drown. And in three years, when he's swimming the backstroke and making national commericals as the face of the Browns, we'll look back and laugh about the thought of Anderson or Frye holding him back for even a single game. This is why Quinn held out. he didnt hold out because he's some punk or little kid trying to steal more money from some random company. It wasnt because he thought he was too good for anyone. Its not that he didnt want to pracice. He's a guy who recognizes within weeks that he'd be the local posterboy hero righting the ship of an entire franchise as its new face.....in fact, as probably its ONLY face in years. This guy has a chance to do for Cleveland what Reggie Bush did for New Orleans.....put them back on the national map. Why get in the way? I hope they dont think theyre protecting him by not playing him. Its pretty simple. If a guy's tough, has thick skin, has talent, can win, and can handle it, he'll succeed. If he can't, he wont. Starting the kid week 6 vs. week 1 has absolutely nothing to do with it. David Carr had 5 years to prove he sucks as a QB. Maybe Houston should have waited until his 6th year to start him so his confidence wouldnt be scarred. Get my point? Youre either good or youre not. In this case, Quinn is the guy that's good. He needs to be the guy that starts!!

Maybe an unnessecary thread, maybe not. He's not going to be a fantasy difference maker for many teams this year, but Quinn's a future NFL stud, and Browns fans need to feel good about it.

 

[semaj33]

i agree...throw the man a bone already...and get him in week 1...

if you plan on starting him week 8 or so...whats the point of waiting...? lets get going already...the Future has come...and is now!!

 

[The Man with the Plan]

Preach on! I agree 100%

 

[amnesiac]

i think they are waiting until he knows the offense.

i know, kind of a minor thing, but sometimes coaches are like that.

 

[twitch]

i think they are waiting until he knows the offense.i know, kind of a minor thing, but sometimes coaches are like that.

the man has had the playbook since late April....Im pretty sure he knows the O.

 

[chris1969]

i think they are waiting until he knows the offense.i know, kind of a minor thing, but sometimes coaches are like that.

the man has had the playbook since late April....Im pretty sure he knows the O.

And of course everyone knows that is all you need in an offense with multiple shifts and timing throws is to be handed the playbook in April.

 

[twitch]

i think they are waiting until he knows the offense.i know, kind of a minor thing, but sometimes coaches are like that.

the man has had the playbook since late April....Im pretty sure he knows the O.

And of course everyone knows that is all you need in an offense with multiple shifts and timing throws is to be handed the playbook in April.

apparently so...it seems to be working for Daunte Culpepper and Trent Green. Theyve each had their books for about a month.

 

[amnesiac]

you know, i honestly believe that the entire organization can hardly wait to get him in.

i'm also believe that they don't think he's ready yet.

after mulling this over for the last week or so, i think that's the simple truth.

 

[twitch]

you know, i honestly believe that the entire organization can hardly wait to get him in.i'm also believe that they don't think he's ready yet.after mulling this over for the last week or so, i think that's the simple truth.

if its an organizational train of thought, then it would be another example of why this team has been stuck in neutral for the past several years. that draft day trade was the best move this team has made in years. They picked up a franchise QB late in the 1st round without having to go thru a JeMarcus Russell type situation and give a guy who's never done a single thing a small fortune and the key to the city. It was decisive, which is exactly what they need to be right now. I simply can NOT make a case for either Charlie Frye or Derek Anderson. Ive seen enough of Frye to make one fair assessment....he's nowhere near as good as Brady Quinn. He may be a nice backup. And Derek Anderson? Just look at his line from the last game he played. 10 for 27 for 123yds with no TDs and FOUR picks. against a 4-12 team (Tampa). Why do I need to see either one of these scrubs play 4 or 5 games to start the season. All its going to do is take the wind out of the sails of Cleveland Browns fans. Like Ive said.....put the kid in and watch the wheels begin to turn.

 

[chris1969]

i think they are waiting until he knows the offense.i know, kind of a minor thing, but sometimes coaches are like that.

the man has had the playbook since late April....Im pretty sure he knows the O.

And of course everyone knows that is all you need in an offense with multiple shifts and timing throws is to be handed the playbook in April.

apparently so...it seems to be working for Daunte Culpepper and Trent Green. Theyve each had their books for about a month.

What's there to learn???Take a snap, drop back, get sacked. :( BTW nothing better to prove your point than to pick 2 guys that are ranked about the same as the guy you benching for Quinn.

 

[twitch]

i think they are waiting until he knows the offense.i know, kind of a minor thing, but sometimes coaches are like that.

the man has had the playbook since late April....Im pretty sure he knows the O.

And of course everyone knows that is all you need in an offense with multiple shifts and timing throws is to be handed the playbook in April.

apparently so...it seems to be working for Daunte Culpepper and Trent Green. Theyve each had their books for about a month.

What's there to learn???Take a snap, drop back, get sacked. :( BTW nothing better to prove your point than to pick 2 guys that are ranked about the same as the guy you benching for Quinn.

You a Browns fan, man, or just a brown-bag man? make your point, though. dont brown bag it.

 

[BGP]

I think its rather bizarre that people are getting upset over the idea that Quinn might be brought along slowly. I don't see why it matters. I've heard of a lot of reasons for QBs turning into a bust, but I've NEVER heard anyone say, "That young QB was a bust because he did not start in week 1 of his rookie year." I don't even understand this demand from a fantasy sense. Unless you drafted him late and expect all-world numbers out of him, why does it matter for your FFL team?

I suspect a part of this is the short-term memory of your average person. The memory of Tim Couch being rushed into the lineup and getting killed fades. But the memory of Vince Young starting early pretty much right away and being successful is fresh in mind. So in the back of your mind you recall Young and say "hey, its ok to rush QBs in...I'm going to search for reasons to do it." Of course, if a Brady Quinn gets rushed in and something horrible happens, now that will be the most recent memory and they'll cool their jets on such demands in the future.

 

[twitch]

I think its rather bizarre that people are getting upset over the idea that Quinn might be brought along slowly. I don't see why it matters. I've heard of a lot of reasons for QBs turning into a bust, but I've NEVER heard anyone say, "That young QB was a bust because he did not start in week 1 of his rookie year." I don't even understand this demand from a fantasy sense. Unless you drafted him late and expect all-world numbers out of him, why does it matter for your FFL team?I suspect a part of this is the short-term memory of your average person. The memory of Tim Couch being rushed into the lineup and getting killed fades. But the memory of Vince Young starting early pretty much right away and being successful is fresh in mind. So in the back of your mind you recall Young and say "hey, its ok to rush QBs in...I'm going to search for reasons to do it." Of course, if a Brady Quinn gets rushed in and something horrible happens, now that will be the most recent memory and they'll cool their jets on such demands in the future.

from my perspective, its fairly simple. Cleveland has 3 QBs. They should play the best of the 3. Why bench the best guy? Any answer relating to bringing him along slowly just doesnt make sense. A guy either has it or he doesnt. Comparing the man to Tim Couch is a negative way of looking at things.

 

[BGP]

I think its rather bizarre that people are getting upset over the idea that Quinn might be brought along slowly. I don't see why it matters. I've heard of a lot of reasons for QBs turning into a bust, but I've NEVER heard anyone say, "That young QB was a bust because he did not start in week 1 of his rookie year." I don't even understand this demand from a fantasy sense. Unless you drafted him late and expect all-world numbers out of him, why does it matter for your FFL team?I suspect a part of this is the short-term memory of your average person. The memory of Tim Couch being rushed into the lineup and getting killed fades. But the memory of Vince Young starting early pretty much right away and being successful is fresh in mind. So in the back of your mind you recall Young and say "hey, its ok to rush QBs in...I'm going to search for reasons to do it." Of course, if a Brady Quinn gets rushed in and something horrible happens, now that will be the most recent memory and they'll cool their jets on such demands in the future.

from my perspective, its fairly simple. Cleveland has 3 QBs. They should play the best of the 3. Why bench the best guy? Any answer relating to bringing him along slowly just doesnt make sense. A guy either has it or he doesnt. Comparing the man to Tim Couch is a negative way of looking at things.

1. Who is the best guy. Ultimately, the only person who's opinion matters there is Romeo Crennel.2. Assuming Quinn is considered the best by Crennel, why bench him? You'd have to ask Crennel. "I don't know if [throwing a rookie QB into the starting lineup is] always the best thing... Because I saw that with Tim Couch. I wasn't there, but (in 1999), they said they were going to give him an opportunity to learn and come along, and then after one game they threw him in there. And probably in the long run, that might not have been the best thing for him.''

 

[chris1969]

I made my point, but I'll put it into simpler terms.

There is not a lot The Browns are gonna gain by playing Quinn in the first 5 weeks against some of the best defenses in the NFL, but there is a lot they can lose. A rookie QB thrown into the fray too early will develop bad habits that are often uncorrectable. If the Browns had enough around him to make a run deep into the playoffs, then I'd say yeah throw him into the fire week 1. They unfortunately are looking for at best a winning season. The plan is to give him 5 weeks to prep for what should be a cake game for him and then 2 weeks to prep for the next one. That way they can build his confidence and give him 10 games under his belt for next year when they can make a playoff run.

Of course Phil Savage should overlook all of that and start Quinn week 1 because you drafted him in your dynasty league. I don't know what he's thinking!

 

[chris1969]

I think its rather bizarre that people are getting upset over the idea that Quinn might be brought along slowly. I don't see why it matters. I've heard of a lot of reasons for QBs turning into a bust, but I've NEVER heard anyone say, "That young QB was a bust because he did not start in week 1 of his rookie year." I don't even understand this demand from a fantasy sense. Unless you drafted him late and expect all-world numbers out of him, why does it matter for your FFL team?I suspect a part of this is the short-term memory of your average person. The memory of Tim Couch being rushed into the lineup and getting killed fades. But the memory of Vince Young starting early pretty much right away and being successful is fresh in mind. So in the back of your mind you recall Young and say "hey, its ok to rush QBs in...I'm going to search for reasons to do it." Of course, if a Brady Quinn gets rushed in and something horrible happens, now that will be the most recent memory and they'll cool their jets on such demands in the future.

from my perspective, its fairly simple. Cleveland has 3 QBs. They should play the best of the 3. Why bench the best guy? Any answer relating to bringing him along slowly just doesnt make sense. A guy either has it or he doesnt. Comparing the man to Tim Couch is a negative way of looking at things.

If you looked at the last game, all 3 QB's did well. If you look at the game before that Quinn compiled a bunch of dink and dunk passes against a 3rd string prevent defense for the Lions. What makes you think he's any better at this point? And why not compare him to Couch? He was after all drafted #1 overall in a draft that was heavy with QB's. (Including McNabb and Culpepper.) Quinn was drafted 22nd. We will never know if Couch will be that franchise guy because he never got over the injuries he got from playing too early. Why does it do the Browns any good if we force Quinn in early against some tough defenses that like to blitz rookies?

 

[twitch]

I made my point, but I'll put it into simpler terms.

There is not a lot The Browns are gonna gain by playing Quinn in the first 5 weeks against some of the best defenses in the NFL, but there is a lot they can lose. A rookie QB thrown into the fray too early will develop bad habits that are often uncorrectable. If the Browns had enough around him to make a run deep into the playoffs, then I'd say yeah throw him into the fire week 1. They unfortunately are looking for at best a winning season. The plan is to give him 5 weeks to prep for what should be a cake game for him and then 2 weeks to prep for the next one. That way they can build his confidence and give him 10 games under his belt for next year when they can make a playoff run.

Of course Phil Savage should overlook all of that and start Quinn week 1 because you drafted him in your dynasty league. I don't know what he's thinking!

As I said, Im not a Browns fan. I said earlier Im a Pats fan. As such, but Im pulling for Romeo Crennel, and thus Im pulling for the Browns. For the record, Im not in any leagues this year. I have no interest in Brady Quinn's fantasy value this season. I said in my initial post that his fantasy value this season probably will be minimal. It just pains me to see him get held back because of a negative line of thinking like theyre "protecting" him from some strong defenses. Get him in there and see what he can do. Dont worry about rattling the kid's confidence simply because it didnt work out so well for Tim Couch. They need to forget about that experiment gone wrong. Couch is not even the NFL, and it wasnt meant to be for him. This kid is not losing his confidence in a few short weeks because I dont see that being part of his makeup. But the only way to find out is to get him on the field. For the record, the year the Browns drafted Tim Couch, they passed over guys like Torry Holt and Champ Bailey and Donovan McNabb and Edgerrin James and Chris McCallister and Jevon Kearse. All of these guys except Kearse went in the first 11 picks. This is a team that has had their head in the sand in many ways and drafting the wrong players has just been a part of it. Theyre finally drafting the right guys. I can see the talent improving a little with the additions of Joe Thomas and Quinn, and if they can actually keep Winslow and Edwards on the field. But they cant look back. They have to look forward. Maybe starting one of those other guys is the right call. But since when do all GMs know exactly what they are doing? These guys dont make mistakes. And who's making the calls there in Cleveland anyway? Since when does the GM determine who starts and who doesnt? If thats the case, then thats part of the problem. Savage needs to draft the players. The HC needs to actually make the decision on who plays. Savage should have nothing to do with that.

 

[amnesiac]

you don't start a player on your team who does not know what he is doing.

the staff feels he is not ready yet.

be patient. he will start soon.

 

[Hammered Finz]

Unless the Browns are playing Army, Navy, Stanford, or Air Force, Quinn won't be much use..

 

[chris1969]

I made my point, but I'll put it into simpler terms.

There is not a lot The Browns are gonna gain by playing Quinn in the first 5 weeks against some of the best defenses in the NFL, but there is a lot they can lose. A rookie QB thrown into the fray too early will develop bad habits that are often uncorrectable. If the Browns had enough around him to make a run deep into the playoffs, then I'd say yeah throw him into the fire week 1. They unfortunately are looking for at best a winning season. The plan is to give him 5 weeks to prep for what should be a cake game for him and then 2 weeks to prep for the next one. That way they can build his confidence and give him 10 games under his belt for next year when they can make a playoff run.

Of course Phil Savage should overlook all of that and start Quinn week 1 because you drafted him in your dynasty league. I don't know what he's thinking!

As I said, Im not a Browns fan. I said earlier Im a Pats fan. As such, but Im pulling for Romeo Crennel, and thus Im pulling for the Browns. For the record, Im not in any leagues this year. I have no interest in Brady Quinn's fantasy value this season. I said in my initial post that his fantasy value this season probably will be minimal. It just pains me to see him get held back because of a negative line of thinking like theyre "protecting" him from some strong defenses. Get him in there and see what he can do. Dont worry about rattling the kid's confidence simply because it didnt work out so well for Tim Couch. They need to forget about that experiment gone wrong. Couch is not even the NFL, and it wasnt meant to be for him. This kid is not losing his confidence in a few short weeks because I dont see that being part of his makeup. But the only way to find out is to get him on the field. For the record, the year the Browns drafted Tim Couch, they passed over guys like Torry Holt and Champ Bailey and Donovan McNabb and Edgerrin James and Chris McCallister and Jevon Kearse. All of these guys except Kearse went in the first 11 picks. This is a team that has had their head in the sand in many ways and drafting the wrong players has just been a part of it. Theyre finally drafting the right guys. I can see the talent improving a little with the additions of Joe Thomas and Quinn, and if they can actually keep Winslow and Edwards on the field. But they cant look back. They have to look forward. Maybe starting one of those other guys is the right call. But since when do all GMs know exactly what they are doing? These guys dont make mistakes. And who's making the calls there in Cleveland anyway? Since when does the GM determine who starts and who doesnt? If thats the case, then thats part of the problem. Savage needs to draft the players. The HC needs to actually make the decision on who plays. Savage should have nothing to do with that.

Romeo makes the call, but Phil can override Romeo's decision. So far both have said that Quinn isn't in the mix right now. If you support Romeo so much than you should support his decision.

 

[twitch]

I made my point, but I'll put it into simpler terms.

There is not a lot The Browns are gonna gain by playing Quinn in the first 5 weeks against some of the best defenses in the NFL, but there is a lot they can lose. A rookie QB thrown into the fray too early will develop bad habits that are often uncorrectable. If the Browns had enough around him to make a run deep into the playoffs, then I'd say yeah throw him into the fire week 1. They unfortunately are looking for at best a winning season. The plan is to give him 5 weeks to prep for what should be a cake game for him and then 2 weeks to prep for the next one. That way they can build his confidence and give him 10 games under his belt for next year when they can make a playoff run.

Of course Phil Savage should overlook all of that and start Quinn week 1 because you drafted him in your dynasty league. I don't know what he's thinking!

As I said, Im not a Browns fan. I said earlier Im a Pats fan. As such, but Im pulling for Romeo Crennel, and thus Im pulling for the Browns. For the record, Im not in any leagues this year. I have no interest in Brady Quinn's fantasy value this season. I said in my initial post that his fantasy value this season probably will be minimal. It just pains me to see him get held back because of a negative line of thinking like theyre "protecting" him from some strong defenses. Get him in there and see what he can do. Dont worry about rattling the kid's confidence simply because it didnt work out so well for Tim Couch. They need to forget about that experiment gone wrong. Couch is not even the NFL, and it wasnt meant to be for him. This kid is not losing his confidence in a few short weeks because I dont see that being part of his makeup. But the only way to find out is to get him on the field. For the record, the year the Browns drafted Tim Couch, they passed over guys like Torry Holt and Champ Bailey and Donovan McNabb and Edgerrin James and Chris McCallister and Jevon Kearse. All of these guys except Kearse went in the first 11 picks. This is a team that has had their head in the sand in many ways and drafting the wrong players has just been a part of it. Theyre finally drafting the right guys. I can see the talent improving a little with the additions of Joe Thomas and Quinn, and if they can actually keep Winslow and Edwards on the field. But they cant look back. They have to look forward. Maybe starting one of those other guys is the right call. But since when do all GMs know exactly what they are doing? These guys dont make mistakes. And who's making the calls there in Cleveland anyway? Since when does the GM determine who starts and who doesnt? If thats the case, then thats part of the problem. Savage needs to draft the players. The HC needs to actually make the decision on who plays. Savage should have nothing to do with that.

Romeo makes the call, but Phil can override Romeo's decision. So far both have said that Quinn isn't in the mix right now. If you support Romeo so much than you should support his decision.

If youre telling me his coaching decision can be overridden by a GM, then Im not sure supporting whatever decision is made is actually supporting Romeo Crennel. The mere thought of him making a choice and having it overruled is almost the definition of 'lame duck'.

 

[chris1969]

I made my point, but I'll put it into simpler terms.

There is not a lot The Browns are gonna gain by playing Quinn in the first 5 weeks against some of the best defenses in the NFL, but there is a lot they can lose. A rookie QB thrown into the fray too early will develop bad habits that are often uncorrectable. If the Browns had enough around him to make a run deep into the playoffs, then I'd say yeah throw him into the fire week 1. They unfortunately are looking for at best a winning season. The plan is to give him 5 weeks to prep for what should be a cake game for him and then 2 weeks to prep for the next one. That way they can build his confidence and give him 10 games under his belt for next year when they can make a playoff run.

Of course Phil Savage should overlook all of that and start Quinn week 1 because you drafted him in your dynasty league. I don't know what he's thinking!

As I said, Im not a Browns fan. I said earlier Im a Pats fan. As such, but Im pulling for Romeo Crennel, and thus Im pulling for the Browns. For the record, Im not in any leagues this year. I have no interest in Brady Quinn's fantasy value this season. I said in my initial post that his fantasy value this season probably will be minimal. It just pains me to see him get held back because of a negative line of thinking like theyre "protecting" him from some strong defenses. Get him in there and see what he can do. Dont worry about rattling the kid's confidence simply because it didnt work out so well for Tim Couch. They need to forget about that experiment gone wrong. Couch is not even the NFL, and it wasnt meant to be for him. This kid is not losing his confidence in a few short weeks because I dont see that being part of his makeup. But the only way to find out is to get him on the field. For the record, the year the Browns drafted Tim Couch, they passed over guys like Torry Holt and Champ Bailey and Donovan McNabb and Edgerrin James and Chris McCallister and Jevon Kearse. All of these guys except Kearse went in the first 11 picks. This is a team that has had their head in the sand in many ways and drafting the wrong players has just been a part of it. Theyre finally drafting the right guys. I can see the talent improving a little with the additions of Joe Thomas and Quinn, and if they can actually keep Winslow and Edwards on the field. But they cant look back. They have to look forward. Maybe starting one of those other guys is the right call. But since when do all GMs know exactly what they are doing? These guys dont make mistakes. And who's making the calls there in Cleveland anyway? Since when does the GM determine who starts and who doesnt? If thats the case, then thats part of the problem. Savage needs to draft the players. The HC needs to actually make the decision on who plays. Savage should have nothing to do with that.

Romeo makes the call, but Phil can override Romeo's decision. So far both have said that Quinn isn't in the mix right now. If you support Romeo so much than you should support his decision.

If youre telling me his coaching decision can be overridden by a GM, then Im not sure supporting whatever decision is made is actually supporting Romeo Crennel. The mere thought of him making a choice and having it overruled is almost the definition of 'lame duck'.

It hasn't happened yet, but while Romeo can pick starters, Phil can over-ride him when it comes to player developement. If it makes you feel any better they actually seem to get along great in their roles. When Phil got into a battle with Pres John Collins Romeo told the owner that if Phil goes he goes. Also the rumor was last year that Phil did pretty much the same thing to save Romeo's job. When Phil drafted Wimbley instead on Ngata he asked Romeo who he wanted more. They both seem to ask for input from the other guy.

 

[DeCleater]

i think they are waiting until he knows the offense.i know, kind of a minor thing, but sometimes coaches are like that.

the man has had the playbook since late April....Im pretty sure he knows the O.

And of course everyone knows that is all you need in an offense with multiple shifts and timing throws is to be handed the playbook in April.

apparently so...it seems to be working for Daunte Culpepper and Trent Green. Theyve each had their books for about a month.

I have always wondered the same thing. How come a vet can go to a new team and learn the plays in a month but a rookie has to have a whole year to learn the plays? Is it because they have been studying hard for 4 or 5 years in college and their brains are burnt out.

 

[twitch]

I made my point, but I'll put it into simpler terms.

There is not a lot The Browns are gonna gain by playing Quinn in the first 5 weeks against some of the best defenses in the NFL, but there is a lot they can lose. A rookie QB thrown into the fray too early will develop bad habits that are often uncorrectable. If the Browns had enough around him to make a run deep into the playoffs, then I'd say yeah throw him into the fire week 1. They unfortunately are looking for at best a winning season. The plan is to give him 5 weeks to prep for what should be a cake game for him and then 2 weeks to prep for the next one. That way they can build his confidence and give him 10 games under his belt for next year when they can make a playoff run.

Of course Phil Savage should overlook all of that and start Quinn week 1 because you drafted him in your dynasty league. I don't know what he's thinking!

As I said, Im not a Browns fan. I said earlier Im a Pats fan. As such, but Im pulling for Romeo Crennel, and thus Im pulling for the Browns. For the record, Im not in any leagues this year. I have no interest in Brady Quinn's fantasy value this season. I said in my initial post that his fantasy value this season probably will be minimal. It just pains me to see him get held back because of a negative line of thinking like theyre "protecting" him from some strong defenses. Get him in there and see what he can do. Dont worry about rattling the kid's confidence simply because it didnt work out so well for Tim Couch. They need to forget about that experiment gone wrong. Couch is not even the NFL, and it wasnt meant to be for him. This kid is not losing his confidence in a few short weeks because I dont see that being part of his makeup. But the only way to find out is to get him on the field. For the record, the year the Browns drafted Tim Couch, they passed over guys like Torry Holt and Champ Bailey and Donovan McNabb and Edgerrin James and Chris McCallister and Jevon Kearse. All of these guys except Kearse went in the first 11 picks. This is a team that has had their head in the sand in many ways and drafting the wrong players has just been a part of it. Theyre finally drafting the right guys. I can see the talent improving a little with the additions of Joe Thomas and Quinn, and if they can actually keep Winslow and Edwards on the field. But they cant look back. They have to look forward. Maybe starting one of those other guys is the right call. But since when do all GMs know exactly what they are doing? These guys dont make mistakes. And who's making the calls there in Cleveland anyway? Since when does the GM determine who starts and who doesnt? If thats the case, then thats part of the problem. Savage needs to draft the players. The HC needs to actually make the decision on who plays. Savage should have nothing to do with that.

Romeo makes the call, but Phil can override Romeo's decision. So far both have said that Quinn isn't in the mix right now. If you support Romeo so much than you should support his decision.

If youre telling me his coaching decision can be overridden by a GM, then Im not sure supporting whatever decision is made is actually supporting Romeo Crennel. The mere thought of him making a choice and having it overruled is almost the definition of 'lame duck'.

It hasn't happened yet, but while Romeo can pick starters, Phil can over-ride him when it comes to player developement. If it makes you feel any better they actually seem to get along great in their roles. When Phil got into a battle with Pres John Collins Romeo told the owner that if Phil goes he goes. Also the rumor was last year that Phil did pretty much the same thing to save Romeo's job. When Phil drafted Wimbley instead on Ngata he asked Romeo who he wanted more. They both seem to ask for input from the other guy.

This is good to hear.....that theyre giving one another this kind of support. But I still say the GM needs to back off and let the coach manage his players. Look, here's the bottom line for me. Charlie Frye, if he is the starter, is without a doubt the worst starting QB in the NFL. Not to kill him needlessly, but this is not an arguement that I care to hear opposition to. Its an inexact science defining what we think the worst is, but thats my opinion and Im sticking to it. he had 24 turnovers last year in 13 games. Why even get the guy's hopes up?? Get Quinn the practice, get him the reps, show him the field, let him get the work and take his lumps against some tough Ds and get on with it already. Im not a Browns fan, and Im not going to lose any sleep over this. Ill patiently wait for Quinn to get in there and play week 6 if thats when his time comes, and I will not watch this team play until that happens. But why drag Frye through the mud as well when the entire world knows this is NOT his team to lead.

 

[Mr. Bill O'Reilly]

How about no? Good thing football people are making football decisions and not the fans... At this stage Charlie Frye gives them the best chance to win so Charlie Frye will be the starting quarterback. I love how people think that just because someone is a first round pick that they should get the starting role. Until the rookie earns the spot he should not be given the starting role. Brady has looked all right so far in the preseason but he hasn't impressed me. I think people are paying too much attention to the box scores... Most of his action has been against 3rd and 4th string and he's been throwing a lot of screens and short stuff... The coaching staff can evaluate who knows the system and is best equipped to start at THIS POINT IN TIME. And I believe Romeo will start Frye and depending on how he performs and the team performs as a whole he will make a decision to throw the rookie in for experience, not because he gives the team the best chance to win. Charlie Frye is the guy-deal with it.

 

[twitch]

Im just having such a hard time dealing with it.....

Cleveland has been 32nd and 30th in points scored in the league the past 2 years. Thats not a boxscore stat, thats a fact. QB play has alot to do with it. Do you need to be a a genius or hold a front-office position to figure out that's not very good? That tone is just getting so stale.

 

[nxmehta]

I think its rather bizarre that people are getting upset over the idea that Quinn might be brought along slowly. I don't see why it matters. I've heard of a lot of reasons for QBs turning into a bust, but I've NEVER heard anyone say, "That young QB was a bust because he did not start in week 1 of his rookie year." I don't even understand this demand from a fantasy sense. Unless you drafted him late and expect all-world numbers out of him, why does it matter for your FFL team?I suspect a part of this is the short-term memory of your average person. The memory of Tim Couch being rushed into the lineup and getting killed fades. But the memory of Vince Young starting early pretty much right away and being successful is fresh in mind. So in the back of your mind you recall Young and say "hey, its ok to rush QBs in...I'm going to search for reasons to do it." Of course, if a Brady Quinn gets rushed in and something horrible happens, now that will be the most recent memory and they'll cool their jets on such demands in the future.

These threads are bizarre. Why is it so hard to grasp that:1. Quinn may not be the best QB on the roster *right now*, despite the fact that Frye/Anderson suck (yes, all a rookie QB need to do to transition to the NFL is read a playbook in April )2. Starting Frye is not equivalent to the Browns mailing the first 6 games inThe upside of starting Quinn right now is basically 0, while the downside is huge. Settle down folks.

 

[chris1969]

I'm not gonna argue any more, but I've been to training camp and I've seen QB's in training camp since Brian Sipe was a starter for the Browns. I would more than anything like to see Quinn start in the last pre-season game just to see what he could do. But, I absolutely don't want him in week 1 vs the Steelers though. It doesn't help the Browns and it won't help Romeo either. If Romeo doesn't want to start him in pre-season that's fine by me. I haven't seen anything in camp that puts him above the other guys. If you want to know who actually looks the best in camp so far it's Dorsey. He has the benefit of playing in the same offense before though and it is the lack of mental mistakes that puts him above the others. The Browns would have probably cut Dorsey when they drafted Quinn if he didn't know the offense. I actually don't buy into the whole "Romeo's job is in jeopardy" thing created by the media. Phil and Romeo seem to be a team package and Lerner will absolutely not blow the whole thing up and start over.

 

[twitch]

I think its rather bizarre that people are getting upset over the idea that Quinn might be brought along slowly. I don't see why it matters. I've heard of a lot of reasons for QBs turning into a bust, but I've NEVER heard anyone say, "That young QB was a bust because he did not start in week 1 of his rookie year." I don't even understand this demand from a fantasy sense. Unless you drafted him late and expect all-world numbers out of him, why does it matter for your FFL team?

I suspect a part of this is the short-term memory of your average person. The memory of Tim Couch being rushed into the lineup and getting killed fades. But the memory of Vince Young starting early pretty much right away and being successful is fresh in mind. So in the back of your mind you recall Young and say "hey, its ok to rush QBs in...I'm going to search for reasons to do it." Of course, if a Brady Quinn gets rushed in and something horrible happens, now that will be the most recent memory and they'll cool their jets on such demands in the future.

These threads are bizarre. Why is it so hard to grasp that:

1. Quinn may not be the best QB on the roster *right now*, despite the fact that Frye/Anderson suck (yes, all a rookie QB need to do to transition to the NFL is read a playbook in April )

2. Starting Frye is not equivalent to the Browns mailing the first 6 games in

The upside of starting Quinn right now is basically 0, while the downside is huge. Settle down folks.

See, there's my problem. Why is it that there is absolutely NO upside to getting valuable game experience, but yet, the world is going to come to an end if Quinn gets in there and gets beat up a little?? Game experience does not have to be a 'huge downside'. Its just a very negative way of looking at things. Is it because of the Tim Couch situation? Great QBs get knocked down, pick themselves up, and get back after it. Guys like Tim Couch dont fall in that category, so why worry about them? Frye and Anderson suck....its been verified. Why would anyone want them starting if thats true??

 

[twitch]

I'm not gonna argue any more, but I've been to training camp and I've seen QB's in training camp since Brian Sipe was a starter for the Browns. I would more than anything like to see Quinn start in the last pre-season game just to see what he could do. But, I absolutely don't want him in week 1 vs the Steelers though. It doesn't help the Browns and it won't help Romeo either. If Romeo doesn't want to start him in pre-season that's fine by me. I haven't seen anything in camp that puts him above the other guys. If you want to know who actually looks the best in camp so far it's Dorsey. He has the benefit of playing in the same offense before though and it is the lack of mental mistakes that puts him above the others. The Browns would have probably cut Dorsey when they drafted Quinn if he didn't know the offense. I actually don't buy into the whole "Romeo's job is in jeopardy" thing created by the media. Phil and Romeo seem to be a team package and Lerner will absolutely not blow the whole thing up and start over.

thanks for the info and insight, Chris. Well done. And look forward to seeing this team improve.....

 

[Joe Bryant]

I'm not gonna argue any more, but I've been to training camp and I've seen QB's in training camp since Brian Sipe was a starter for the Browns. I would more than anything like to see Quinn start in the last pre-season game just to see what he could do. But, I absolutely don't want him in week 1 vs the Steelers though. It doesn't help the Browns and it won't help Romeo either. If Romeo doesn't want to start him in pre-season that's fine by me. I haven't seen anything in camp that puts him above the other guys. If you want to know who actually looks the best in camp so far it's Dorsey. He has the benefit of playing in the same offense before though and it is the lack of mental mistakes that puts him above the others. The Browns would have probably cut Dorsey when they drafted Quinn if he didn't know the offense. I actually don't buy into the whole "Romeo's job is in jeopardy" thing created by the media. Phil and Romeo seem to be a team package and Lerner will absolutely not blow the whole thing up and start over.

Hi Chris,Thanks for the insights - you're obviously a knowledgeable footballguy. Let me ask you this - what's your opinion of Crennel? If you could wave a magic wand, how many current NFL head coaches would you rather have than Romeo Crennel?J

 

[nxmehta]

I think its rather bizarre that people are getting upset over the idea that Quinn might be brought along slowly. I don't see why it matters. I've heard of a lot of reasons for QBs turning into a bust, but I've NEVER heard anyone say, "That young QB was a bust because he did not start in week 1 of his rookie year." I don't even understand this demand from a fantasy sense. Unless you drafted him late and expect all-world numbers out of him, why does it matter for your FFL team?

I suspect a part of this is the short-term memory of your average person. The memory of Tim Couch being rushed into the lineup and getting killed fades. But the memory of Vince Young starting early pretty much right away and being successful is fresh in mind. So in the back of your mind you recall Young and say "hey, its ok to rush QBs in...I'm going to search for reasons to do it." Of course, if a Brady Quinn gets rushed in and something horrible happens, now that will be the most recent memory and they'll cool their jets on such demands in the future.

These threads are bizarre. Why is it so hard to grasp that:

1. Quinn may not be the best QB on the roster *right now*, despite the fact that Frye/Anderson suck (yes, all a rookie QB need to do to transition to the NFL is read a playbook in April )

2. Starting Frye is not equivalent to the Browns mailing the first 6 games in

The upside of starting Quinn right now is basically 0, while the downside is huge. Settle down folks.

See, there's my problem. Why is it that there is absolutely NO upside to getting valuable game experience, but yet, the world is going to come to an end if Quinn gets in there and gets beat up a little?? Game experience does not have to be a 'huge downside'. Its just a very negative way of looking at things. Is it because of the Tim Couch situation? Great QBs get knocked down, pick themselves up, and get back after it. Guys like Tim Couch dont fall in that category, so why worry about them? Frye and Anderson suck....its been verified. Why would anyone want them starting if thats true??

First of all, history STRONGLY disagrees with your idea that rookie QBs should just be tossed in there: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/2005/01/1...-analysis/2262/While you're reading that article and getting educated, let's ignore the idea that starting 6 games in a rookie season is life or death. Let's stick to this point: can you verify that Quinn is better than Frye or Anderson, or can you only verify that Frye and Anderson suck? Unless your last name is Crennel I don't think you can. You don't have enough evidence. If you do, please make your argument that Quinn is a better starting NFL QB than Frye or Anderson.

 

[chris1969]

I think its rather bizarre that people are getting upset over the idea that Quinn might be brought along slowly. I don't see why it matters. I've heard of a lot of reasons for QBs turning into a bust, but I've NEVER heard anyone say, "That young QB was a bust because he did not start in week 1 of his rookie year." I don't even understand this demand from a fantasy sense. Unless you drafted him late and expect all-world numbers out of him, why does it matter for your FFL team?

I suspect a part of this is the short-term memory of your average person. The memory of Tim Couch being rushed into the lineup and getting killed fades. But the memory of Vince Young starting early pretty much right away and being successful is fresh in mind. So in the back of your mind you recall Young and say "hey, its ok to rush QBs in...I'm going to search for reasons to do it." Of course, if a Brady Quinn gets rushed in and something horrible happens, now that will be the most recent memory and they'll cool their jets on such demands in the future.

These threads are bizarre. Why is it so hard to grasp that:

1. Quinn may not be the best QB on the roster *right now*, despite the fact that Frye/Anderson suck (yes, all a rookie QB need to do to transition to the NFL is read a playbook in April )

2. Starting Frye is not equivalent to the Browns mailing the first 6 games in

The upside of starting Quinn right now is basically 0, while the downside is huge. Settle down folks.

See, there's my problem. Why is it that there is absolutely NO upside to getting valuable game experience, but yet, the world is going to come to an end if Quinn gets in there and gets beat up a little?? Game experience does not have to be a 'huge downside'. Its just a very negative way of looking at things. Is it because of the Tim Couch situation? Great QBs get knocked down, pick themselves up, and get back after it. Guys like Tim Couch dont fall in that category, so why worry about them? Frye and Anderson suck....its been verified. Why would anyone want them starting if thats true??

Ok lets try this one....

Our organization has determined that you are very successful at running across the street blindfolded while not getting hit by a car. In fact your better than all our current guys on the team right now. So what we'd like to do is start you for the first week of the season. Now normally we like to train guys out of college things they haven't learned yet like listening for the traffic coming and feeling the vibrations in the road. But our coach might get fired if we don't improve! Most weeks we'll be running across normal residential roads, but the first 5 weeks you'll be running across a 12 lane highway. We feel it will give you valuable game experience. What? you heard about that guy Couch that got hit by a semi truck? Don't worry about that, he couldn't handle it.

 

[twitch]

I think its rather bizarre that people are getting upset over the idea that Quinn might be brought along slowly. I don't see why it matters. I've heard of a lot of reasons for QBs turning into a bust, but I've NEVER heard anyone say, "That young QB was a bust because he did not start in week 1 of his rookie year." I don't even understand this demand from a fantasy sense. Unless you drafted him late and expect all-world numbers out of him, why does it matter for your FFL team?

I suspect a part of this is the short-term memory of your average person. The memory of Tim Couch being rushed into the lineup and getting killed fades. But the memory of Vince Young starting early pretty much right away and being successful is fresh in mind. So in the back of your mind you recall Young and say "hey, its ok to rush QBs in...I'm going to search for reasons to do it." Of course, if a Brady Quinn gets rushed in and something horrible happens, now that will be the most recent memory and they'll cool their jets on such demands in the future.

These threads are bizarre. Why is it so hard to grasp that:

1. Quinn may not be the best QB on the roster *right now*, despite the fact that Frye/Anderson suck (yes, all a rookie QB need to do to transition to the NFL is read a playbook in April )

2. Starting Frye is not equivalent to the Browns mailing the first 6 games in

The upside of starting Quinn right now is basically 0, while the downside is huge. Settle down folks.

See, there's my problem. Why is it that there is absolutely NO upside to getting valuable game experience, but yet, the world is going to come to an end if Quinn gets in there and gets beat up a little?? Game experience does not have to be a 'huge downside'. Its just a very negative way of looking at things. Is it because of the Tim Couch situation? Great QBs get knocked down, pick themselves up, and get back after it. Guys like Tim Couch dont fall in that category, so why worry about them? Frye and Anderson suck....its been verified. Why would anyone want them starting if thats true??

Ok lets try this one....

Our organization has determined that you are very successful at running across the street blindfolded while not getting hit by a car. In fact your better than all our current guys on the team right now. So what we'd like to do is start you for the first week of the season. Now normally we like to train guys out of college things they haven't learned yet like listening for the traffic coming and feeling the vibrations in the road. But our coach might get fired if we don't improve! Most weeks we'll be running across normal residential roads, but the first 5 weeks you'll be running across a 12 lane highway. We feel it will give you valuable game experience. What? you heard about that guy Couch that got hit by a semi truck? Don't worry about that, he couldn't handle it.

Chris, why do you continue traveling down this road of negativity? Im not following because its leading nowhere. Forgive me for not being a fan of this team, but as a result it has not so negatively scarred my objectivity.

 

[mad sweeney]

I made my point, but I'll put it into simpler terms.

There is not a lot The Browns are gonna gain by playing Quinn in the first 5 weeks against some of the best defenses in the NFL, but there is a lot they can lose. A rookie QB thrown into the fray too early will develop bad habits that are often uncorrectable. If the Browns had enough around him to make a run deep into the playoffs, then I'd say yeah throw him into the fire week 1. They unfortunately are looking for at best a winning season. The plan is to give him 5 weeks to prep for what should be a cake game for him and then 2 weeks to prep for the next one. That way they can build his confidence and give him 10 games under his belt for next year when they can make a playoff run.

Of course Phil Savage should overlook all of that and start Quinn week 1 because you drafted him in your dynasty league. I don't know what he's thinking!

As I said, Im not a Browns fan. I said earlier Im a Pats fan. As such, but Im pulling for Romeo Crennel, and thus Im pulling for the Browns. For the record, Im not in any leagues this year. I have no interest in Brady Quinn's fantasy value this season. I said in my initial post that his fantasy value this season probably will be minimal. It just pains me to see him get held back because of a negative line of thinking like theyre "protecting" him from some strong defenses. Get him in there and see what he can do. Dont worry about rattling the kid's confidence simply because it didnt work out so well for Tim Couch. They need to forget about that experiment gone wrong. Couch is not even the NFL, and it wasnt meant to be for him. This kid is not losing his confidence in a few short weeks because I dont see that being part of his makeup. But the only way to find out is to get him on the field. For the record, the year the Browns drafted Tim Couch, they passed over guys like Torry Holt and Champ Bailey and Donovan McNabb and Edgerrin James and Chris McCallister and Jevon Kearse. All of these guys except Kearse went in the first 11 picks. This is a team that has had their head in the sand in many ways and drafting the wrong players has just been a part of it. Theyre finally drafting the right guys. I can see the talent improving a little with the additions of Joe Thomas and Quinn, and if they can actually keep Winslow and Edwards on the field. But they cant look back. They have to look forward. Maybe starting one of those other guys is the right call. But since when do all GMs know exactly what they are doing? These guys dont make mistakes. And who's making the calls there in Cleveland anyway? Since when does the GM determine who starts and who doesnt? If thats the case, then thats part of the problem. Savage needs to draft the players. The HC needs to actually make the decision on who plays. Savage should have nothing to do with that.

Romeo makes the call, but Phil can override Romeo's decision. So far both have said that Quinn isn't in the mix right now. If you support Romeo so much than you should support his decision.

If youre telling me his coaching decision can be overridden by a GM, then Im not sure supporting whatever decision is made is actually supporting Romeo Crennel. The mere thought of him making a choice and having it overruled is almost the definition of 'lame duck'.

Seems somewhat similar to the Vince Young scenario last year, and they gave "Lame Duck" Fisher a contract extension.

 

[gianmarco]

i think they are waiting until he knows the offense.i know, kind of a minor thing, but sometimes coaches are like that.

the man has had the playbook since late April....Im pretty sure he knows the O.

And of course everyone knows that is all you need in an offense with multiple shifts and timing throws is to be handed the playbook in April.

apparently so...it seems to be working for Daunte Culpepper and Trent Green. Theyve each had their books for about a month.

I have always wondered the same thing. How come a vet can go to a new team and learn the plays in a month but a rookie has to have a whole year to learn the plays? Is it because they have been studying hard for 4 or 5 years in college and their brains are burnt out.

Is this a serious question? A vet can go to a new team and learn the plays quicker bc that's exactly what they're doing. They're just learning the plays and the new system. They're not having to learn how to be an NFL QB, how to read NFL defenses, and how to do numerous other things that quarterbacks have to do at the NFL level that they don't do at the college level. There is a reason why even the most talented and best QB's in the league will struggle when they start out. A veteran that has played in the NFL and is used to the speed of the game and the defenses he will face has that advantage. While I'm not an NFL QB, I would imagine the playbook is the easiest thing to learn when compared to the numerous other tasks and learning hurdles that a rookie NFL QB must face.

 

[chris1969]

I'm not gonna argue any more, but I've been to training camp and I've seen QB's in training camp since Brian Sipe was a starter for the Browns. I would more than anything like to see Quinn start in the last pre-season game just to see what he could do. But, I absolutely don't want him in week 1 vs the Steelers though. It doesn't help the Browns and it won't help Romeo either. If Romeo doesn't want to start him in pre-season that's fine by me. I haven't seen anything in camp that puts him above the other guys. If you want to know who actually looks the best in camp so far it's Dorsey. He has the benefit of playing in the same offense before though and it is the lack of mental mistakes that puts him above the others. The Browns would have probably cut Dorsey when they drafted Quinn if he didn't know the offense. I actually don't buy into the whole "Romeo's job is in jeopardy" thing created by the media. Phil and Romeo seem to be a team package and Lerner will absolutely not blow the whole thing up and start over.

Hi Chris,Thanks for the insights - you're obviously a knowledgeable footballguy. Let me ask you this - what's your opinion of Crennel? If you could wave a magic wand, how many current NFL head coaches would you rather have than Romeo Crennel?J

Maybe a half dozen, but I actually like Romeo. Remember we had the king of all coaches here (BB) and he struggled too. Romeo seems to be steadfast in his decisions and that can be both a good and a bad thing. He doesn't like to start rookies unless they prove they are better in camp. (Which I love) He's probably right down the middle between being a player's coach and an owner's coach. He's not a guy that makes quick decisions on personell which I think hurts him sometimes. He tries a little too hard to be BB sometimes too! He's pretty candid when he has an opinion. He wouldn't have taken much heat from the media if he didn't show so much loyalty to Cathon. (Brown's fans hated him.) I would put my opinion of Romeo higher than my opinion of BB when he was with the Browns.I personally would look at Cowher or Marty as a step back next year. They would change too much of what has been started.

 

[twitch]

I think its rather bizarre that people are getting upset over the idea that Quinn might be brought along slowly. I don't see why it matters. I've heard of a lot of reasons for QBs turning into a bust, but I've NEVER heard anyone say, "That young QB was a bust because he did not start in week 1 of his rookie year." I don't even understand this demand from a fantasy sense. Unless you drafted him late and expect all-world numbers out of him, why does it matter for your FFL team?

I suspect a part of this is the short-term memory of your average person. The memory of Tim Couch being rushed into the lineup and getting killed fades. But the memory of Vince Young starting early pretty much right away and being successful is fresh in mind. So in the back of your mind you recall Young and say "hey, its ok to rush QBs in...I'm going to search for reasons to do it." Of course, if a Brady Quinn gets rushed in and something horrible happens, now that will be the most recent memory and they'll cool their jets on such demands in the future.

These threads are bizarre. Why is it so hard to grasp that:

1. Quinn may not be the best QB on the roster *right now*, despite the fact that Frye/Anderson suck (yes, all a rookie QB need to do to transition to the NFL is read a playbook in April )

2. Starting Frye is not equivalent to the Browns mailing the first 6 games in

The upside of starting Quinn right now is basically 0, while the downside is huge. Settle down folks.

See, there's my problem. Why is it that there is absolutely NO upside to getting valuable game experience, but yet, the world is going to come to an end if Quinn gets in there and gets beat up a little?? Game experience does not have to be a 'huge downside'. Its just a very negative way of looking at things. Is it because of the Tim Couch situation? Great QBs get knocked down, pick themselves up, and get back after it. Guys like Tim Couch dont fall in that category, so why worry about them? Frye and Anderson suck....its been verified. Why would anyone want them starting if thats true??

Can you verify that Quinn is better than Frye or Anderson, or can you only verify that Frye and Anderson suck? Unless your last name is Crennel I don't think you can. Let's ignore the idea that starting 6 games in a rookie season is life or death. That can be argued either way I think, there is a lot of evidence for and against both positions. Make your argument that Quinn is a better starting NFL QB than Frye or Anderson.

The verification of Anderson and Frye sucking actually came from you, as referenced above. My arguement that Quinn is better than the other 2? It doesnt even seem nessecary really. But then, my last name is NOT Crennel, and Im not an offensive guru like Im sure he is, so I guess Im just not qualified (thats a sarcastic poke because we both Romeo doesnt know anymore about QBs than you or I). Ill tell you things Brady Quinn hasnt done which at the very least help him suck LESS than the other two. He didnt have anything to do with this team being 32nd or 30th in the NFL in scoring the past 2 years. He didnt have 24 turnovers or 17INTs last season. He didnt go 10 for 27 with no TDs and FOUR ints against a 4-12 team. Not much of a case is it??

 

[chris1969]

I think its rather bizarre that people are getting upset over the idea that Quinn might be brought along slowly. I don't see why it matters. I've heard of a lot of reasons for QBs turning into a bust, but I've NEVER heard anyone say, "That young QB was a bust because he did not start in week 1 of his rookie year." I don't even understand this demand from a fantasy sense. Unless you drafted him late and expect all-world numbers out of him, why does it matter for your FFL team?

I suspect a part of this is the short-term memory of your average person. The memory of Tim Couch being rushed into the lineup and getting killed fades. But the memory of Vince Young starting early pretty much right away and being successful is fresh in mind. So in the back of your mind you recall Young and say "hey, its ok to rush QBs in...I'm going to search for reasons to do it." Of course, if a Brady Quinn gets rushed in and something horrible happens, now that will be the most recent memory and they'll cool their jets on such demands in the future.

These threads are bizarre. Why is it so hard to grasp that:

1. Quinn may not be the best QB on the roster *right now*, despite the fact that Frye/Anderson suck (yes, all a rookie QB need to do to transition to the NFL is read a playbook in April )

2. Starting Frye is not equivalent to the Browns mailing the first 6 games in

The upside of starting Quinn right now is basically 0, while the downside is huge. Settle down folks.

See, there's my problem. Why is it that there is absolutely NO upside to getting valuable game experience, but yet, the world is going to come to an end if Quinn gets in there and gets beat up a little?? Game experience does not have to be a 'huge downside'. Its just a very negative way of looking at things. Is it because of the Tim Couch situation? Great QBs get knocked down, pick themselves up, and get back after it. Guys like Tim Couch dont fall in that category, so why worry about them? Frye and Anderson suck....its been verified. Why would anyone want them starting if thats true??

Ok lets try this one....

Our organization has determined that you are very successful at running across the street blindfolded while not getting hit by a car. In fact your better than all our current guys on the team right now. So what we'd like to do is start you for the first week of the season. Now normally we like to train guys out of college things they haven't learned yet like listening for the traffic coming and feeling the vibrations in the road. But our coach might get fired if we don't improve! Most weeks we'll be running across normal residential roads, but the first 5 weeks you'll be running across a 12 lane highway. We feel it will give you valuable game experience. What? you heard about that guy Couch that got hit by a semi truck? Don't worry about that, he couldn't handle it.

Chris, why do you continue traveling down this road of negativity? Im not following because its leading nowhere. Forgive me for not being a fan of this team, but as a result it has not so negatively scarred my objectivity.

It's a semantics thing. You have one vision of what can happen and I have another. I don't think either of us is gonna convice the other, but I think my vision is the safer of the 2.

 

[SteelerMurf]

You know what is so funny. If Miami would have picked Quinn like they should have.....we all would be talking about how Cleveland blew another draft pick.

 

[twitch]

I made my point, but I'll put it into simpler terms.

There is not a lot The Browns are gonna gain by playing Quinn in the first 5 weeks against some of the best defenses in the NFL, but there is a lot they can lose. A rookie QB thrown into the fray too early will develop bad habits that are often uncorrectable. If the Browns had enough around him to make a run deep into the playoffs, then I'd say yeah throw him into the fire week 1. They unfortunately are looking for at best a winning season. The plan is to give him 5 weeks to prep for what should be a cake game for him and then 2 weeks to prep for the next one. That way they can build his confidence and give him 10 games under his belt for next year when they can make a playoff run.

Of course Phil Savage should overlook all of that and start Quinn week 1 because you drafted him in your dynasty league. I don't know what he's thinking!

As I said, Im not a Browns fan. I said earlier Im a Pats fan. As such, but Im pulling for Romeo Crennel, and thus Im pulling for the Browns. For the record, Im not in any leagues this year. I have no interest in Brady Quinn's fantasy value this season. I said in my initial post that his fantasy value this season probably will be minimal. It just pains me to see him get held back because of a negative line of thinking like theyre "protecting" him from some strong defenses. Get him in there and see what he can do. Dont worry about rattling the kid's confidence simply because it didnt work out so well for Tim Couch. They need to forget about that experiment gone wrong. Couch is not even the NFL, and it wasnt meant to be for him. This kid is not losing his confidence in a few short weeks because I dont see that being part of his makeup. But the only way to find out is to get him on the field. For the record, the year the Browns drafted Tim Couch, they passed over guys like Torry Holt and Champ Bailey and Donovan McNabb and Edgerrin James and Chris McCallister and Jevon Kearse. All of these guys except Kearse went in the first 11 picks. This is a team that has had their head in the sand in many ways and drafting the wrong players has just been a part of it. Theyre finally drafting the right guys. I can see the talent improving a little with the additions of Joe Thomas and Quinn, and if they can actually keep Winslow and Edwards on the field. But they cant look back. They have to look forward. Maybe starting one of those other guys is the right call. But since when do all GMs know exactly what they are doing? These guys dont make mistakes. And who's making the calls there in Cleveland anyway? Since when does the GM determine who starts and who doesnt? If thats the case, then thats part of the problem. Savage needs to draft the players. The HC needs to actually make the decision on who plays. Savage should have nothing to do with that.

Romeo makes the call, but Phil can override Romeo's decision. So far both have said that Quinn isn't in the mix right now. If you support Romeo so much than you should support his decision.

If youre telling me his coaching decision can be overridden by a GM, then Im not sure supporting whatever decision is made is actually supporting Romeo Crennel. The mere thought of him making a choice and having it overruled is almost the definition of 'lame duck'.

Seems somewhat similar to the Vince Young scenario last year, and they gave "Lame Duck" Fisher a contract extension.

Fisher has been coaching that team dating back to Houston....something like 15 years. He's won division titles. He's been to a Superbowl. He's been a consistent winner and a consistently strong coach. He never should have been a 'lame duck' if he ever was. Romeo has coached 2 years and both years hsi teams have sucked. Lets alteast be fairly close in our comparisons.

 

[twitch]

I think its rather bizarre that people are getting upset over the idea that Quinn might be brought along slowly. I don't see why it matters. I've heard of a lot of reasons for QBs turning into a bust, but I've NEVER heard anyone say, "That young QB was a bust because he did not start in week 1 of his rookie year." I don't even understand this demand from a fantasy sense. Unless you drafted him late and expect all-world numbers out of him, why does it matter for your FFL team?

I suspect a part of this is the short-term memory of your average person. The memory of Tim Couch being rushed into the lineup and getting killed fades. But the memory of Vince Young starting early pretty much right away and being successful is fresh in mind. So in the back of your mind you recall Young and say "hey, its ok to rush QBs in...I'm going to search for reasons to do it." Of course, if a Brady Quinn gets rushed in and something horrible happens, now that will be the most recent memory and they'll cool their jets on such demands in the future.

These threads are bizarre. Why is it so hard to grasp that:

1. Quinn may not be the best QB on the roster *right now*, despite the fact that Frye/Anderson suck (yes, all a rookie QB need to do to transition to the NFL is read a playbook in April )

2. Starting Frye is not equivalent to the Browns mailing the first 6 games in

The upside of starting Quinn right now is basically 0, while the downside is huge. Settle down folks.

See, there's my problem. Why is it that there is absolutely NO upside to getting valuable game experience, but yet, the world is going to come to an end if Quinn gets in there and gets beat up a little?? Game experience does not have to be a 'huge downside'. Its just a very negative way of looking at things. Is it because of the Tim Couch situation? Great QBs get knocked down, pick themselves up, and get back after it. Guys like Tim Couch dont fall in that category, so why worry about them? Frye and Anderson suck....its been verified. Why would anyone want them starting if thats true??

Ok lets try this one....

Our organization has determined that you are very successful at running across the street blindfolded while not getting hit by a car. In fact your better than all our current guys on the team right now. So what we'd like to do is start you for the first week of the season. Now normally we like to train guys out of college things they haven't learned yet like listening for the traffic coming and feeling the vibrations in the road. But our coach might get fired if we don't improve! Most weeks we'll be running across normal residential roads, but the first 5 weeks you'll be running across a 12 lane highway. We feel it will give you valuable game experience. What? you heard about that guy Couch that got hit by a semi truck? Don't worry about that, he couldn't handle it.

Chris, why do you continue traveling down this road of negativity? Im not following because its leading nowhere. Forgive me for not being a fan of this team, but as a result it has not so negatively scarred my objectivity.

It's a semantics thing. You have one vision of what can happen and I have another. I don't think either of us is gonna convice the other, but I think my vision is the safer of the 2.

Im not really trying to convince you of anything other than things in Cleveland are about to change, and that will only begin to happen once Brady Quinn gets on the field. As a Patriots lifer, I can tell you things changed the minute Tom Brady took the field. I see the same happening in Cleveland once your boy gets his shot. If it takes til wk 6, then so be it.

 

[Raider Nation]

I'm not gonna argue any more, but I've been to training camp and I've seen QB's in training camp since Brian Sipe was a starter for the Browns. I would more than anything like to see Quinn start in the last pre-season game just to see what he could do. But, I absolutely don't want him in week 1 vs the Steelers though. It doesn't help the Browns and it won't help Romeo either. If Romeo doesn't want to start him in pre-season that's fine by me. I haven't seen anything in camp that puts him above the other guys. If you want to know who actually looks the best in camp so far it's Dorsey. He has the benefit of playing in the same offense before though and it is the lack of mental mistakes that puts him above the others. The Browns would have probably cut Dorsey when they drafted Quinn if he didn't know the offense. I actually don't buy into the whole "Romeo's job is in jeopardy" thing created by the media. Phil and Romeo seem to be a team package and Lerner will absolutely not blow the whole thing up and start over.

Hi Chris,Thanks for the insights - you're obviously a knowledgeable footballguy. Let me ask you this - what's your opinion of Crennel? If you could wave a magic wand, how many current NFL head coaches would you rather have than Romeo Crennel?

Maybe a half dozen

I've never called this before on these boards, but I'm calling it now.

I can't come up with a list of a half dozen coaches who I wouldn't rather have than Crennel.

He'll be a D-coordinator somewhere next year.

 

[chris1969]

You know what is so funny. If Miami would have picked Quinn like they should have.....we all would be talking about how Cleveland blew another draft pick.

I'd really love a better explanation on this comment. Are you saying that we blew it with Thomas over Quinn or are you saying we blew it with taking Thomas all together. I don't know if you've seen any pre-season games, but so far I disagree.

 

[nxmehta]

The verification of Anderson and Frye sucking actually came from you, as referenced above. My arguement that Quinn is better than the other 2? It doesnt even seem nessecary really. But then, my last name is NOT Crennel, and Im not an offensive guru like Im sure he is, so I guess Im just not qualified (thats a sarcastic poke because we both Romeo doesnt know anymore about QBs than you or I). Ill tell you things Brady Quinn hasnt done which at the very least help him suck LESS than the other two. He didnt have anything to do with this team being 32nd or 30th in the NFL in scoring the past 2 years. He didnt have 24 turnovers or 17INTs last season. He didnt go 10 for 27 with no TDs and FOUR ints against a 4-12 team. Not much of a case is it??

Your argument then is that Frye/Anderson suck, and Quinn couldn't possibly suck MORE. So, the reason that Crennel isn't starting him is that he's an idiot.That's not a very good argument.Who's to say that Quinn could do any better right now? He could easily go out there and throw 30 picks and no TDs. I'll take Crennel's opinion of whether Quinn would suck more than Anderson/Frye over yours. Have you considered that he might have more evidence than you?You're just now.

 

[chris1969]

I'm not gonna argue any more, but I've been to training camp and I've seen QB's in training camp since Brian Sipe was a starter for the Browns. I would more than anything like to see Quinn start in the last pre-season game just to see what he could do. But, I absolutely don't want him in week 1 vs the Steelers though. It doesn't help the Browns and it won't help Romeo either. If Romeo doesn't want to start him in pre-season that's fine by me. I haven't seen anything in camp that puts him above the other guys. If you want to know who actually looks the best in camp so far it's Dorsey. He has the benefit of playing in the same offense before though and it is the lack of mental mistakes that puts him above the others. The Browns would have probably cut Dorsey when they drafted Quinn if he didn't know the offense. I actually don't buy into the whole "Romeo's job is in jeopardy" thing created by the media. Phil and Romeo seem to be a team package and Lerner will absolutely not blow the whole thing up and start over.

Hi Chris,Thanks for the insights - you're obviously a knowledgeable footballguy. Let me ask you this - what's your opinion of Crennel? If you could wave a magic wand, how many current NFL head coaches would you rather have than Romeo Crennel?

Maybe a half dozen

I've never called this before on these boards, but I'm calling it now.

I can't come up with a list of a half dozen coaches who I wouldn't rather have than Crennel.

He'll be a D-coordinator somewhere next year.

I'm in trouble now! raider nation just called on my opinion, next he'll call it on my immortal soul and my ambition!

 

[nxmehta]

I've never called this before on these boards, but I'm calling it now.



I can't come up with a list of a half dozen coaches who I wouldn't rather have than Crennel.

He'll be a D-coordinator somewhere next year.

That's easy: **** Jauron, Herm Edwards, Lane Kiffin, Tom Coughlin, Mike McCarthy, Bobby Petrino would be my least favorite. There might be 2-4 more on that list.Although I wouldn't argue (like the original poster) that there are only 6 coaches I'd rather have

 

[twitch]

The verification of Anderson and Frye sucking actually came from you, as referenced above. My arguement that Quinn is better than the other 2? It doesnt even seem nessecary really. But then, my last name is NOT Crennel, and Im not an offensive guru like Im sure he is, so I guess Im just not qualified (thats a sarcastic poke because we both Romeo doesnt know anymore about QBs than you or I). Ill tell you things Brady Quinn hasnt done which at the very least help him suck LESS than the other two. He didnt have anything to do with this team being 32nd or 30th in the NFL in scoring the past 2 years. He didnt have 24 turnovers or 17INTs last season. He didnt go 10 for 27 with no TDs and FOUR ints against a 4-12 team. Not much of a case is it??

Your argument then is that Frye/Anderson suck, and Quinn couldn't possibly suck MORE. So, the reason that Crennel isn't starting him is that he's an idiot.That's not a very good argument.

Who's to say that Quinn could do any better right now? He could easily go out there and throw 30 picks and no TDs. I'll take Crennel's opinion of whether Quinn would suck more than Anderson/Frye over yours. Have you considered that he might have more evidence than you?

You're just now.

No, Ive never been much for fishing. I even said as you can see that what I said wasnt really a solid take. Like I heard Pittsburgh's coach say earlier tonite in a pregame interview in that "the tape will tell the story", of course meaning we wont know until he gets a chance to play. Could he easily go out and throw 30 picks with NO TDs? Are you really saying that? And you think Im the one fishing? Cmon. Im not saying Quinn is going to step in and be an All Pro. And Im sure youll take your coach's opinion over mine. How can I debate that? But what exactly does he know about QB play? He's been a defensive coach his entire career. He's been a head coach of a horrible team for 2 years, and so for only 2 years has he been responsible for actually judging QB talent. And Im going out on a limb here and saying to this point he has not done a very good job at it. The minute he decides to make the move to start Quinn is the minute I start respecting his judgement of QB talent.

 

[chris1969]

Mike Holgrem, Tony Dungy, Andy Reed, BB, Jeff Fisher, Mike Shanahan.....

There may be a few more, but I actually had to think to come up with 6 guys.

 

[chris1969]

The verification of Anderson and Frye sucking actually came from you, as referenced above. My arguement that Quinn is better than the other 2? It doesnt even seem nessecary really. But then, my last name is NOT Crennel, and Im not an offensive guru like Im sure he is, so I guess Im just not qualified (thats a sarcastic poke because we both Romeo doesnt know anymore about QBs than you or I). Ill tell you things Brady Quinn hasnt done which at the very least help him suck LESS than the other two. He didnt have anything to do with this team being 32nd or 30th in the NFL in scoring the past 2 years. He didnt have 24 turnovers or 17INTs last season. He didnt go 10 for 27 with no TDs and FOUR ints against a 4-12 team. Not much of a case is it??

Your argument then is that Frye/Anderson suck, and Quinn couldn't possibly suck MORE. So, the reason that Crennel isn't starting him is that he's an idiot.That's not a very good argument.

Who's to say that Quinn could do any better right now? He could easily go out there and throw 30 picks and no TDs. I'll take Crennel's opinion of whether Quinn would suck more than Anderson/Frye over yours. Have you considered that he might have more evidence than you?

You're just now.

No, Ive never been much for fishing. I even said as you can see that what I said wasnt really a solid take. Like I heard Pittsburgh's coach say earlier tonite in a pregame interview in that "the tape will tell the story", of course meaning we wont know until he gets a chance to play. Could he easily go out and throw 30 picks with NO TDs? Are you really saying that? And you think Im the one fishing? Cmon. Im not saying Quinn is going to step in and be an All Pro. And Im sure youll take your coach's opinion over mine. How can I debate that? But what exactly does he know about QB play? He's been a defensive coach his entire career. He's been a head coach of a horrible team for 2 years, and so for only 2 years has he been responsible for actually judging QB talent. And Im going out on a limb here and saying to this point he has not done a very good job at it. The minute he decides to make the move to start Quinn is the minute I start respecting his judgement of QB talent.

Kinda blows your "I'm here to support Romeo" argument.