Branch to Jets if grievance won next week (1 Viewer)

[ericttspikes]

Brady makes this team go round, and BB know that. Branch should of taken the Pats money, or play his contract out. Super Bowl MVP? So was Dexter Jackson and Desmond Howard. This guy is an average receiver on a great team. I hope he goes to NYJ, we'll never have to hear about him again. I think he even he realizes his an average player and is trying to leverage that Super Bowl MVP into his final big score, because his numbers simply aren't that great to command tall dollars. Good luck with that.

And Randel El was worth the contract he got because of his numbers?There will be at least one team willing to pay him millions more than NE. You can book that.

His was a FA, he cashed in, and we'll never have to hear from him again either.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Here's what don't get. NE never said that they would trade him for a fair and reasonable offer. They gave Branch permission to negotiate a contract with other teams and seek a trade. That was their statement. The whole "fair and reasonable" thing is hearsay.

Promising to be fair and reasonable is an implied term in any agreement. But I agree with your conclusion. When the Patriots granted permission for Branch to seek a trade, they were not agreeing to anything. In legal terms, they were (IMO) making an "invitation to deal" rather than an "offer" or "acceptance." They were, in essence, doing Branch a favor -- they were allowing him to explore trade options in case he came up with something that they liked. But they weren't agreeing ahead of time to like whatever he came up with, or to forfeit any of their discretion in deciding whether they liked it.But like massraider said, I don't think Branch is filing the grievance because he expects to win. It's for tactical reasons.

 

[mhrutkowski]

Here's what don't get. NE never said that they would trade him for a fair and reasonable offer. They gave Branch permission to negotiate a contract with other teams and seek a trade. That was their statement. The whole "fair and reasonable" thing is hearsay.

Promising to be fair and reasonable is an implied term in any agreement. But I agree with your conclusion. When the Patriots granted permission for Branch to seek a trade, they were not agreeing to anything. In legal terms, they were (IMO) making an "invitation to deal" rather than an "offer" or "acceptance." They were, in essence, doing Branch a favor -- they were allowing him to explore trade options in case he came up with something that they liked. But they weren't agreeing ahead of time to like whatever he came up with, or to forfeit any of their discretion in deciding whether they liked it.But like massraider said, I don't think Branch is filing the grievance because he expects to win. It's for tactical reasons.

Great post.

 

[Grid71]

Brady makes this team go round, and BB know that. Branch should of taken the Pats money, or play his contract out. Super Bowl MVP? So was Dexter Jackson and Desmond Howard. This guy is an average receiver on a great team. I hope he goes to NYJ, we'll never have to hear about him again. I think he even he realizes his an average player and is trying to leverage that Super Bowl MVP into his final big score, because his numbers simply aren't that great to command tall dollars. Good luck with that.

And Randel El was worth the contract he got because of his numbers?There will be at least one team willing to pay him millions more than NE. You can book that.

His was a FA, he cashed in, and we'll never have to hear from him again either.

FA status was not the point of this post. It is the comment "his (Branch) numbers simply aren't that great to command tall dollars."I agree that Branch will dissapear if he goes to the Jets. However, if I were Branch with a couple SB rings, I'd be looking to cash in too. At some point you have to be more TO'ish and think of your own best interests.

 

[massraider]

I used to always say "Player X is crazy if he thinks he'll get a big contract."

Then I got tired of being wrong.

The consensus in the NFL might be that Branch isn't worth #1 WR money. But Branch doesn't need a consensus. He needs to find one team willing to pay him. The Pats gave him one week, right before the season started, to find himself a deal he liked. Not optimum shopping conditions. And Branch found two offers he liked! We might save some bandwidth by putting to bed the idea that he has an inflated idea of his worth. He seems to know exactly what he's worth.

 

[AB in DC]

By rule, signing away a franchise player gives you two picks, however, no NFL team has ever signed a franchise player and paid two first-rounders as compensation.

Sean Gilbert, for one, back in the mid-90s. I think there have been one or two others.

 

[mhrutkowski]

I used to always say "Player X is crazy if he thinks he'll get a big contract."

Then I got tired of being wrong.

The consensus in the NFL might be that Branch isn't worth #1 WR money. But Branch doesn't need a consensus. He needs to find one team willing to pay him. The Pats gave him one week, right before the season started, to find himself a deal he liked. Not optimum shopping conditions. And Branch found two offers he liked! We might save some bandwidth by putting to bed the idea that he has an inflated idea of his worth. He seems to know exactly what he's worth.

He's worth that amount but not until he's a FA

 

[Z-Dog]

2. This agreement is an enforceable one (and note that verbal agreements are often unenforceable, even if made).

Oral agreements are just as enforceable as written agreements, with certain fairly narrow exceptions, none of which would apply here.

The following contracts must be in writing: * Contracts in consideration of marriage. * Contracts which cannot be performed within one year. * Contracts for the sale of an interest in land. * Contracts by the executor of a will to pay a debt of the estate with his own money. * Under the Uniform Commercial Code (article 2, section 201), contracts for the sale of goods where the price equals $500.00 or more (with the exception of professional merchants performing their normal business transactions, or any custom-made items designed for one specific buyer) [1]. * Contracts in which one party becomes a surety (acts as guarantor) for another party's debt or other obligation.

Like I said . . .

However, this isn't a straightforward situation. Branch is under contract to the patriots, and that contract almost certainly includes a merger clause that indicates that the written contract represents the sum total of the agreements between the teams, and that any modification of this agreement must be in writing. Such a clause would make evidence of a verbal modification of the contract inadmissable in court.

Nobody is alleging that the contract was modified. Branch is alleging that when the Patriots granted him permission to seek a trade, they implicitly promised to act in good faith in not unreasonably denying any trade offers they were presented. I think Branch's argument is a loser, but he's not arguing for a modification of his player contract, nor is he arguing for an agreement to buy land or anything else that must be in writing.

The hardest part about dealing with verbal contracts, btw, is presenting evidence that they exist.

I don't think the Patriots will deny that they granted permission for Branch to seek a trade. In fact, the permission was probably given in writing. (BTW, you keep saying "verbal" when you mean "oral." Oral and written contracts are both generally verbal.)

At this point you're getting down to the nuts and bolts of the legal argument. My understanding of Branch's allegations are that the Pats made an explicit offer, not an implicit one. Branch is saying that the Patriots told him that he could look for his own deal, and they would deal him for fair compensation. They then put out that he was available for two first rounders. That's what's got them in the bind - it appears that this alone could be construed as bad faith, b/c by setting such an unrealistic price, they were artificially limiting the market for Branch. The question then becomes whether the explicit agreement to trade Branch was in fact a contract. PFT brings up the consideration issue, but I think it's a bad one - Branch's agent certainly is doing valuable work in setting up a deal, and he's doing it free of charge for the Pats. I think that qualifies as consideration. The problem is that there was clearly no meeting of the minds - no bargain was struck b/c the parties did not agree as to an essential term of the contract (what 'fair value' is). Thus, Branch, by definition, has no breach of contract claim, b/c no contract ever existed. At best, Branch has a claim based upon the terms of the CBA. Under the CBA, teams must negotiate with players in good faith. The classic breach of the duty to negotiate in good faith is to negotiate with no real intention to reach a deal. To the extent that this is what the Pats did, it most certainly is a breach of that duty. The nice thing about this claim is that Branch doesn't have to prove that the Pats made him a contractually binding offer to trade hi, he just has to show to an arbitrator that the Pats never had any intention to deal him and were just dicking him around. That's a somewhat stronger case. Whichever way the hearing goes, it's notable that the arbitrator, even in finding for Branch, does not have to mandate a trade. He can choose other remedies as well.

 

[Chaz McNulty]

I'm a huge Pats fan who's loved Branch, but I'll say this. Whether it's him or his agent telling him what to do, he's garbage to me now. He signed his deal and plays in a league with rules negotiated by a union he's part of. Do what you want in free agency when you're a free agent but when you're under contract, play it out.A naive point of view but the great thing about the pats is they're a team with no one indivdidual above the rest (OK, maybe Brady). I hope he goes to the Jets and learns what it's like to catch passes from noodle-armed Pennington and lose 13 games a year for awhile.

It's time for the Pats to let him go and this post is the reason why. I see way to much bad blood between Branch and the Pats for this to work out for either side. I think there comes a point in any deal whether that is Real Estate, NFL or any other market when 2 sides are tryng to reach common ground, somewhere in this mess both sides have let emotions rule the day and nothing kills deals more than raw emotion. This IS a business and whether we like it not I think Branch had a good argument from the begining and since other owners make a common pratice to give other players new deals based on performance then Branch did what anyone would do and say hey I exceeded my contract value and it's time to do a deal. The agent and Branch need to understand the Pat's side as well and there is common ground in any deal to make it work. I think alot of blame falls on Branch's agent for letting his player get way to involved and emotional. The Pat's are also staying rigid firm and really Branch will be a pretty big loss for them all that said this thing is as dead as Grant's horse and I would be super shocked if anything gets done. I'm a real estate agent outside of being a fantasy owner and I have had to calm clients emotions more than once and I have seen first hand Sellers lose good buyers and vice versa based on getting angry and upset. I try to take firm control of my clients of course very politely and explain that their agent is doing what they are suppose to do and never not respond to any offer because it's business not personal and they hired me to do the same thing. I would say about 75% I'm succesful in taking control and doing some countering and research to prove arguments to find common ground with the other party and their agent. There is always the idiots out there that are sticking and will never make a deal work unless it's on their terms and really that means the desire to sell or buy was really not there. I'm also a Branch owner and like to see him stay in NE, but the Pats really shot themsevles in the foot by allowing Branch to try to find a deal on his own(stupid) I see why they did it does not mean it was anyless stupid because now I think the grievance does hold water because Branch has shown his value and the Jets are willing to give fair compensation. Branch's agent SHOULD have had the Pat's put it on ink and paper(stupid)they would have had a stronger argument, however the fact that it clearly was reported and never refuted by the Pats could be a weak argument for the Branch camp. I know if I was Branch I would think about getting a new agent (asap) and before the deal is done.

I think Branch's agent has played New England like a fiddle. Why would you want to fire the guy? It's almost unprecedented how he got NE to give his client the chance to prove his worth. Worst case scenario is that Branch sits out 10 games, plays 6 games, and gets a huge payout at the end of the season. Best case is that NE or another team pay him off this year. The latter scenario is way more likely because in the first scenario NE gives up an asset for nothing.I think Branch's agent has done an incredible job considering he's dealing with NE.

 

[Chaz McNulty]

I'm a huge Pats fan who's loved Branch, but I'll say this. Whether it's him or his agent telling him what to do, he's garbage to me now. He signed his deal and plays in a league with rules negotiated by a union he's part of. Do what you want in free agency when you're a free agent but when you're under contract, play it out.

A naive point of view but the great thing about the pats is they're a team with no one indivdidual above the rest (OK, maybe Brady). I hope he goes to the Jets and learns what it's like to catch passes from noodle-armed Pennington and lose 13 games a year for awhile.

These same rules state that he only needs to play 6 games in one season for it to be considered a contract year. He is not doing anything unlawful or immoral under the rules signed by the NFL and the union. He can sit out 10 games and pay fines if he wishes.And given the choice, would you rather catch passes from dead-eye Brady for 1M a year or noodle-armed Pennington for 7M a year. Ask any WR this question and I'd bet you'd get the same answer everytime.

 

[AB in DC]

Worst case scenario is that Branch sits out 10 games, plays 6 games, and gets a huge payout at the end of the season. Best case is that NE or another team pay him off this year. The latter scenario is way more likely because in the first scenario NE gives up an asset for nothing.

Not if they use the franchise tag.

 

[Chaz McNulty]

Worst case scenario is that Branch sits out 10 games, plays 6 games, and gets a huge payout at the end of the season. Best case is that NE or another team pay him off this year. The latter scenario is way more likely because in the first scenario NE gives up an asset for nothing.

Not if they use the franchise tag.

Then they pay him the average the top 5 WR's in the league. I don't know if NE wants to do that even if it is for only one year. They're basically saying he isn't as good as R. Wayne, but now they're going to pay him like Owens. It doesn't make sense to me.

 

[mhrutkowski]

Worst case scenario is that Branch sits out 10 games, plays 6 games, and gets a huge payout at the end of the season. Best case is that NE or another team pay him off this year. The latter scenario is way more likely because in the first scenario NE gives up an asset for nothing.

Not if they use the franchise tag.

Then they pay him the average the top 5 WR's in the league. I don't know if NE wants to do that even if it is for only one year. They're basically saying he isn't as good as R. Wayne, but now they're going to pay him like Owens. It doesn't make sense to me.

Paying him like TO for a year is very different from paying him like a top 10 WR for several years. Plus, Branch has to play his butt off if he wants to cash in again.

 

[Cocky Crow]

Anyone know when this grievence hearing will be held? Is there a standard schedule for such procedings, or will this be considered an emergency case? The season starts this week for god's sake. Wonder if the new Commissioner will step in to expidite matters. Interesting case which could set some precidents.

 

[dickey moe]

Any opinions of how this might affect the value of Coles if the deal goes down?

 

[Z-Dog]

I would say that it hurts Coles' value significantly. Right now, Coels main value is in PPR leagues, where he is a legitimate threat to catch 90 balls (90, 90, 73 in his last three years, I believe). Most people don't think his YPR is going to get up to 13 either. Assuming that Branch comes aboard, I don't see how Coles will get enough targets for 90 catches, and I see him in the 60-70 range, at best. That's an absolute best case scenario of 910 yards, and probably not more than 5 TDs to go with that.

That said, there is some upside, imo. I think that a WR corps featuring Branch, Coles, Tim Dwight, Cotcherry, and Brad Smith is pretty good, with a nice mix of vets, young guys, and the #1 guy (Branch) in his prime. Taking a gamble on this offense, when that gamble is as cheap as Coles will be after Branch goes to NE is a good gamble, imo.

 

[mario8723]

Coles' receptions for the last four years: 89, 82, 90, 73

As a diehard Jets fan who watches every game and has been to TC this summer, I would think 70 catches is a best-case scenario.

Too many guys, too few balls. The Jets offense is just not going to be very good this year. I will be pleasantly shocked if Coles returns to form in 2006.

 

[Z-Dog]

So you thjiink Coles will catch fewer balls than last year? How do you figure?

 

[grouse]

Here's what don't get. NE never said that they would trade him for a fair and reasonable offer. They gave Branch permission to negotiate a contract with other teams and seek a trade. That was their statement. The whole "fair and reasonable" thing is hearsay.

Promising to be fair and reasonable is an implied term in any agreement. But I agree with your conclusion. When the Patriots granted permission for Branch to seek a trade, they were not agreeing to anything. In legal terms, they were (IMO) making an "invitation to deal" rather than an "offer" or "acceptance." They were, in essence, doing Branch a favor -- they were allowing him to explore trade options in case he came up with something that they liked. But they weren't agreeing ahead of time to like whatever he came up with, or to forfeit any of their discretion in deciding whether they liked it.But like massraider said, I don't think Branch is filing the grievance because he expects to win. It's for tactical reasons.

Did the Patriots tell Branch to look for a trade under the auspices that if the deal was 'arbitrarily' good for them, they'd do it? Or, did the Patriots imply more than that? Did they give Branch/Chayut some indication that as long as the compensation was comparable to other benchmarks, they would do the deal?While I agree the grievances won't likely end in Branch's favor, it isn't a forgone conclusion. The Player's Union certainly believes the Patriots implied more than just 'go look for a deal and we'll take a look at it'.

The grievance filed by the NFL Players Association alleges the Patriots "reneged" on an agreement to trade Branch, said Richard Berthelsen, the union's general counsel.

The grievance said that in allowing Branch to work out a contract with another team, the Patriots agreed they would trade him if he were comfortable with that contract and if the draft choice compensation for him “was commensurate with what has been the value of similar players,” Berthelsen said in a telephone interview. (link)

"Even in the football arena, teams and team officials have an obligation to abide by their agreements and live by their representations,'' said Branch's attorney, Peter Ginsburg, who will participate in the grievance process. ''The Patriots made a binding offer to Deion, Deion accepted the offer, and both the Seahawks and the Jets more than satisfied New England's conditions. It's a shame now the Patriots are attempting to use their unfair and coercive position against Deion in a way that threatens to compromise his career. We look forward to protecting Deion's rights and obtaining a favorable resolution in the upcoming proceedings." (link)

 

[Workhorse]

The general consensus in the legal community is that Branch doesn't have much of a case:

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patr...nt_back_branch/

 

[nerangers]

The general consensus in the legal community is that Branch doesn't have much of a case:

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patr...nt_back_branch/

I just read this article and was getting ready to post it here. I was pretty sure verbally that it was known the Patriots wanted two first round picks....guess Branch only has selective hearing when it comes to verbal contracts.

Abrams said it's a ``heavy-hitting" group that will attempt to show the Patriots received appropriate compensation for Branch -- a second-round draft choice -- after giving Branch permission to negotiate with other clubs.

The Patriots likely will counter by saying they have the right to determine the value of the player, and they believe Branch is worth more. Haagen believes the Patriots have the upper hand.

 

[CrossEyed]

So when it comes to Branch's value, the Pats think he's worth two first rounders to another team, but not worth similar monetary compensation from them. I think they're being idiots on this one.

 

[massraider]

So when it comes to Branch's value, the Pats think he's worth two first rounders to another team, but not worth similar monetary compensation from them. I think they're being idiots on this one.

Anyone want to take a guess what happens to Branch's bargaining position after the Pats explain how they feel he is worth two first round picks?It looks to me like it's heading to a worst-case scenario. Branch sits out a significant portion of the season, and it appears the Pats will franchise him. Really, I suppose I understand why they want to do that, but after holding out for half the season, I can't imagine Branch would be a happy camper playing for a one year deal. It would seem to me to be less a good football decision, and more a decision based on principle.

 

[mhrutkowski]

So when it comes to Branch's value, the Pats think he's worth two first rounders to another team, but not worth similar monetary compensation from them. I think they're being idiots on this one.

It's pretty simple. They don't want to trade him now, but they also don't want to lock him up to a deal that they feel is too high.

 

[SteelerMurf]

Branch in the regular season is average stats wise. He was gold in the Superbowl. Not sure how he is worth anything more than what will be an early 2nd round pick.

He simply is not 1st rounder material.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

So when it comes to Branch's value, the Pats think he's worth two first rounders to another team, but not worth similar monetary compensation from them.

One has nothing to do with the other since he's already contract. If I bought the last Penn & Teller DVD for $20 bucks yesterday, I might refuse to sell it today for $50 since I really like it, while also refusing to pay the store clerk from yesterday the additional $20 he's asking for . . . not because it's not worth $40 to me, but because I already own it and therefore don't have to pay any more for it.

 

[Z-Dog]

So when it comes to Branch's value, the Pats think he's worth two first rounders to another team, but not worth similar monetary compensation from them. I think they're being idiots on this one.

It's pretty simple. They don't want to trade him now, but they also don't want to lock him up to a deal that they feel is too high.

It's pretty simple for Branch too: he doesn't want risk his ability to make lots of money by playing this year and taking the risk of getting injured for only $1 million. He would rather pay the fines, report after week 10, and sign a $40 million deal next year with another team.

 

[mhrutkowski]

So when it comes to Branch's value, the Pats think he's worth two first rounders to another team, but not worth similar monetary compensation from them. I think they're being idiots on this one.

It's pretty simple. They don't want to trade him now, but they also don't want to lock him up to a deal that they feel is too high.

It's pretty simple for Branch too: he doesn't want risk his ability to make lots of money by playing this year and taking the risk of getting injured for only $1 million. He would rather pay the fines, report after week 10, and sign a $40 million deal next year with another team.

That's if he gets the same deal after all of this. It's also assuming that NE doesn't franchise him, either.How much would the fines total?

 

[Z-Dog]

So when it comes to Branch's value, the Pats think he's worth two first rounders to another team, but not worth similar monetary compensation from them. I think they're being idiots on this one.

It's pretty simple. They don't want to trade him now, but they also don't want to lock him up to a deal that they feel is too high.

It's pretty simple for Branch too: he doesn't want risk his ability to make lots of money by playing this year and taking the risk of getting injured for only $1 million. He would rather pay the fines, report after week 10, and sign a $40 million deal next year with another team.

That's if he gets the same deal after all of this. It's also assuming that NE doesn't franchise him, either.How much would the fines total?

Hard to see why he wouldn't get a big deal after sitting for a year if guys coming off of ACLs are getting big deals.The fines would total about $500,000 from what I've read - chump change for a guy in line to get $13 million in bonus and $23 million guaranteed over three years. And if NE franchises him, he's guaranteed $7 million next year, plus he can refuse to sign the tender and hold out (fine-free) until right before the season starts. I don't think NE would be very excited about that - if he gets franchised, it will be in order to get trade value for him. And if you're already doing that, you may as well trade him now and move on, imo.

 

[massraider]

So when it comes to Branch's value, the Pats think he's worth two first rounders to another team, but not worth similar monetary compensation from them. I think they're being idiots on this one.

It's pretty simple. They don't want to trade him now, but they also don't want to lock him up to a deal that they feel is too high.

It's pretty simple for Branch too: he doesn't want risk his ability to make lots of money by playing this year and taking the risk of getting injured for only $1 million. He would rather pay the fines, report after week 10, and sign a $40 million deal next year with another team.

That's if he gets the same deal after all of this. It's also assuming that NE doesn't franchise him, either.How much would the fines total?

Hard to see why he wouldn't get a big deal after sitting for a year if guys coming off of ACLs are getting big deals.The fines would total about $500,000 from what I've read - chump change for a guy in line to get $13 million in bonus and $23 million guaranteed over three years. And if NE franchises him, he's guaranteed $7 million next year, plus he can refuse to sign the tender and hold out (fine-free) until right before the season starts. I don't think NE would be very excited about that - if he gets franchised, it will be in order to get trade value for him. And if you're already doing that, you may as well trade him now and move on, imo.

Yeah, I think $518,000 is the last number I heard.And I believe his game checks are somewhere in the neighborhood of $66,000.I think if Branch got those offers that quick, in late August, we can assume he'd get bigger offers next offseason.

 

[grouse]

So when it comes to Branch's value, the Pats think he's worth two first rounders to another team, but not worth similar monetary compensation from them. I think they're being idiots on this one.

It's pretty simple. They don't want to trade him now, but they also don't want to lock him up to a deal that they feel is too high.

It's pretty simple for Branch too: he doesn't want risk his ability to make lots of money by playing this year and taking the risk of getting injured for only $1 million. He would rather pay the fines, report after week 10, and sign a $40 million deal next year with another team.

That's if he gets the same deal after all of this. It's also assuming that NE doesn't franchise him, either.How much would the fines total?

Hard to see why he wouldn't get a big deal after sitting for a year if guys coming off of ACLs are getting big deals.The fines would total about $500,000 from what I've read - chump change for a guy in line to get $13 million in bonus and $23 million guaranteed over three years. And if NE franchises him, he's guaranteed $7 million next year, plus he can refuse to sign the tender and hold out (fine-free) until right before the season starts. I don't think NE would be very excited about that - if he gets franchised, it will be in order to get trade value for him. And if you're already doing that, you may as well trade him now and move on, imo.

Yeah, I think $518,000 is the last number I heard.And I believe his game checks are somewhere in the neighborhood of $66,000.I think if Branch got those offers that quick, in late August, we can assume he'd get bigger offers next offseason.

Is Branch the best of this free agent '07 class?Deion BranchDrew BennettKevin CurtisSamie ParkerErnest WilfordAndre DavisTyrone CalicoClarence MooreShaun McDonaldBobby EngramMarc BoerigterPatrick CraytonDennis NorthcuttDavid BostonTravis TaylorKelley WashingtonJustin GageScottie Vines

 

[PatsWillWin]

Is Branch the best of this free agent '07 class?Deion BranchDrew BennettKevin CurtisSamie ParkerErnest WilfordAndre DavisTyrone CalicoClarence MooreShaun McDonaldBobby EngramMarc BoerigterPatrick CraytonDennis NorthcuttDavid BostonTravis TaylorKelley WashingtonJustin GageScottie Vines

The main reason Branch is holding out isn't so much because he wants a new contract right now - it's that the Patriots are sure to franchise tag him at the end of the year. He's already said that he would play if the Patriots agreed to not tag him - which, of course, they will not do.

 

[Tau837]

So when it comes to Branch's value, the Pats think he's worth two first rounders to another team, but not worth similar monetary compensation from them. I think they're being idiots on this one.

It's pretty simple. They don't want to trade him now, but they also don't want to lock him up to a deal that they feel is too high.

It's pretty simple for Branch too: he doesn't want risk his ability to make lots of money by playing this year and taking the risk of getting injured for only $1 million. He would rather pay the fines, report after week 10, and sign a $40 million deal next year with another team.

That's if he gets the same deal after all of this. It's also assuming that NE doesn't franchise him, either.How much would the fines total?

Hard to see why he wouldn't get a big deal after sitting for a year if guys coming off of ACLs are getting big deals.The fines would total about $500,000 from what I've read - chump change for a guy in line to get $13 million in bonus and $23 million guaranteed over three years. And if NE franchises him, he's guaranteed $7 million next year, plus he can refuse to sign the tender and hold out (fine-free) until right before the season starts. I don't think NE would be very excited about that - if he gets franchised, it will be in order to get trade value for him. And if you're already doing that, you may as well trade him now and move on, imo.

You and I clearly have a different definition of chump change.Using massraiders numbers, if he sits 10 games, he gives up $518K in fines and $660K in game checks. To accomplish what? It might be worth it if it forced the Patriots to change their approach to his situation to one Branch considers more favorable (trade or agreeing to no franchise tag). But does anyone see the Pats doing this?

So Branch sitting out 10 games is just throwing away almost $1.2M. Money he could have had regardless of what happens after the season.

 

[Pat Patriot]

The Patriots do not think that Branch is worth 2 1st round picks. They feel that they are entitled to 2 1st round picks as compensation for Branch if someone else signs him. By rule, that would be their compensation should they Franchise him and another team signs him. They are just protecting their Franchise rights as defined in the CBA. That is why Branch and his agent were trying to get the Pats to renounce their Franchise rights. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

 

[Z-Dog]

The main reason Branch is holding out isn't so much because he wants a new contract right now - it's that the Patriots are sure to franchise tag him at the end of the year. He's already said that he would play if the Patriots agreed to not tag him - which, of course, they will not do.

I don't think that's the main reason Branch is holding out, I just think it's one possible way to resolve his holdout. What Branch wants, or at least wanted, was to sign a long-term deal with the Pats right now, and tear up his existing contract. Failing that, he wanted to be sure to get a long-term deal the following year, so he said he would play under his current deal if the Pats agreed not to franchise him the next year.All of that was before the Pats let him test the market though. Now that he knows that there is a a much higher payout possibility, I don't think he will settle for being set free next season.

 

[massraider]

So when it comes to Branch's value, the Pats think he's worth two first rounders to another team, but not worth similar monetary compensation from them. I think they're being idiots on this one.

It's pretty simple. They don't want to trade him now, but they also don't want to lock him up to a deal that they feel is too high.

It's pretty simple for Branch too: he doesn't want risk his ability to make lots of money by playing this year and taking the risk of getting injured for only $1 million. He would rather pay the fines, report after week 10, and sign a $40 million deal next year with another team.

That's if he gets the same deal after all of this. It's also assuming that NE doesn't franchise him, either.How much would the fines total?

Hard to see why he wouldn't get a big deal after sitting for a year if guys coming off of ACLs are getting big deals.The fines would total about $500,000 from what I've read - chump change for a guy in line to get $13 million in bonus and $23 million guaranteed over three years. And if NE franchises him, he's guaranteed $7 million next year, plus he can refuse to sign the tender and hold out (fine-free) until right before the season starts. I don't think NE would be very excited about that - if he gets franchised, it will be in order to get trade value for him. And if you're already doing that, you may as well trade him now and move on, imo.

You and I clearly have a different definition of chump change.Using massraiders numbers, if he sits 10 games, he gives up $518K in fines and $660K in game checks. To accomplish what? It might be worth it if it forced the Patriots to change their approach to his situation to one Branch considers more favorable (trade or agreeing to no franchise tag). But does anyone see the Pats doing this?

Oh, I think it's possible. A 10 week holdout is a long time. That's a lot of team meetings, media scrutiny, etc. For the Pats to then franchise him, wait all summer, and then pay him 7 mill to go through another tense season, well, it just seems like there's an easier way.

If he held out 10 weeks, I would say the most likely scenario is an offseason trade. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

If he didn't hold out, and played good soldier, much less chance he gets traded, and the Pats do what they did with Vinitiari. They give him 7 mill, and get 2006/2007 from Branch at $8 mill (roughly).

I know the franchise number was 6 mill and change this year, I'd really like to know the 07 estimate. We've been using 7 mill as a number, but it wouldn't surprise me to see it over 8 mill.

 

[Philo Beddoe]

So when it comes to Branch's value, the Pats think he's worth two first rounders to another team, but not worth similar monetary compensation from them. I think they're being idiots on this one.

It's pretty simple. They don't want to trade him now, but they also don't want to lock him up to a deal that they feel is too high.

It's pretty simple for Branch too: he doesn't want risk his ability to make lots of money by playing this year and taking the risk of getting injured for only $1 million. He would rather pay the fines, report after week 10, and sign a $40 million deal next year with another team.

That's if he gets the same deal after all of this. It's also assuming that NE doesn't franchise him, either.How much would the fines total?

Hard to see why he wouldn't get a big deal after sitting for a year if guys coming off of ACLs are getting big deals.The fines would total about $500,000 from what I've read - chump change for a guy in line to get $13 million in bonus and $23 million guaranteed over three years. And if NE franchises him, he's guaranteed $7 million next year, plus he can refuse to sign the tender and hold out (fine-free) until right before the season starts. I don't think NE would be very excited about that - if he gets franchised, it will be in order to get trade value for him. And if you're already doing that, you may as well trade him now and move on, imo.

You and I clearly have a different definition of chump change.Using massraiders numbers, if he sits 10 games, he gives up $518K in fines and $660K in game checks. To accomplish what? It might be worth it if it forced the Patriots to change their approach to his situation to one Branch considers more favorable (trade or agreeing to no franchise tag). But does anyone see the Pats doing this?

So Branch sitting out 10 games is just throwing away almost $1.2M. Money he could have had regardless of what happens after the season.

They can also recoup 1/5 of his 1m signing bonus from the original deal.

 

[massraider]

So when it comes to Branch's value, the Pats think he's worth two first rounders to another team, but not worth similar monetary compensation from them. I think they're being idiots on this one.

It's pretty simple. They don't want to trade him now, but they also don't want to lock him up to a deal that they feel is too high.

It's pretty simple for Branch too: he doesn't want risk his ability to make lots of money by playing this year and taking the risk of getting injured for only $1 million. He would rather pay the fines, report after week 10, and sign a $40 million deal next year with another team.

That's if he gets the same deal after all of this. It's also assuming that NE doesn't franchise him, either.How much would the fines total?

Hard to see why he wouldn't get a big deal after sitting for a year if guys coming off of ACLs are getting big deals.The fines would total about $500,000 from what I've read - chump change for a guy in line to get $13 million in bonus and $23 million guaranteed over three years. And if NE franchises him, he's guaranteed $7 million next year, plus he can refuse to sign the tender and hold out (fine-free) until right before the season starts. I don't think NE would be very excited about that - if he gets franchised, it will be in order to get trade value for him. And if you're already doing that, you may as well trade him now and move on, imo.

You and I clearly have a different definition of chump change.Using massraiders numbers, if he sits 10 games, he gives up $518K in fines and $660K in game checks. To accomplish what? It might be worth it if it forced the Patriots to change their approach to his situation to one Branch considers more favorable (trade or agreeing to no franchise tag). But does anyone see the Pats doing this?

So Branch sitting out 10 games is just throwing away almost $1.2M. Money he could have had regardless of what happens after the season.

They can also recoup 1/5 of his 1m signing bonus from the original deal.

Are you sure about that? He won't be violating the CBA by arriving for the last 6 games of the year. He will have fulfilled his contract by doing so.A moot point, nonetheless. Branch was a 2nd round pick. The prorated amount of his SB might not even be enough to change that 1.2 above to a 1.3.

 

[PatsFanCT]

I don't know why so many people assume he will play if he waits until week 10 to come back. Is a 5'9" receiver who never rang up a thousand yards receiving and more than 5 TD's in a season really going to sign for top 10 WR money after not playing for nearly two years?

 

[bostonfred]

I was listening to sports radio in Boston today, and they've almost got it right. The only part they're missing is that Branch's agent does, in fact, have an exit strategy for all this, and that that exit strategy is to sign back with the Patriots when the grievance inevitably fails.

If you're interested in what's really going on here, I posted it the night of the deadline for Branch to be traded. I still believe that this is exactly what's going on:

link

link

 

[Ron_Mexico]

ne is so annoying. a bunch of pompous ***! they think they can win with anyone. i hope they go down in flames!

yeah it's really annoying when teams refuse to trade a player they want to keep. pompous ***es.

wrong. if they wanted their super bowl mvp they would pay him. if they thought he was so important they would show him the money. branch should leave.

What the hell are you talking about? They offered over $6mil a year for a guy who has never had a 1000 yard season and never caught more than 5 touchdowns...

thank you.

 

[Ron_Mexico]

Can anyone verify that the Jets Patriots proposed

trade for Branch will include the Jets

1st round pick ?

 

[massraider]

Can anyone verify that the Jets Patriots proposedtrade for Branch will include the Jets1st round pick ?

Unless there's something new happening, it's my understanding that the Jets offered a 2nd round pick.

 

[bostonfred]

Can anyone verify that the Jets Patriots proposedtrade for Branch will include the Jets1st round pick ?

Unless there's something new happening, it's my understanding that the Jets offered a 2nd round pick.

Specifically, the Jets offered the Redskins' second round pick, because they did not want to trade their own (assumably earlier) second rounder.

 

[joffer]

bfred, best guess.....where and when is Branch playing this year?

 

[Z-Dog]

I don't know why so many people assume he will play if he waits until week 10 to come back. Is a 5'9" receiver who never rang up a thousand yards receiving and more than 5 TD's in a season really going to sign for top 10 WR money after not playing for nearly two years?

Well, Santana Moss (5'8") got a 6-year $31 million deal last year with the 'skins after having had only one good year and two years worth of injuries to start his career. He also wasn't the Superbowl MVP.

Can anyone verify that the Jets Patriots proposedtrade for Branch will include the Jets1st round pick ?

No, and this is the first time I'm hearing of this. The only reference to a 1st-round pick was a rumor that the Seahawks offered their first-roudner. I will eat my hat and hard drive if the Jets offer their 1st-rounder (assuming no additional compensation from the Pats), and I'll have my power supply for dessert if the Patriots turn down the Jets first rounder, should it be offered - the Jets are projected to at least a top-10, if not top-5 pick in 2007.

 

[bostonfred]

bfred, best guess.....where and when is Branch playing this year?

In New England, most likely by week 2 or 3. It depends how long it takes to get the contract worked out. The only ways I can see that changing are if 1) the grievance unexpectedly succeeds, 2) Branch and co. try to use the grievance to get a contract done this week, 3) someone completely unexpectedly blows the Patriots away with a trade offer, 4) the Patriots decide they're better off without the distraction, or 5) Branch has some seriously hard feelings. I don't think any of those are likely, but they're possible. By the way, has anyone quoted Brady from WEEI Sports Radio this morning? He didn't give any new news per se, except that he's been talking to Branch and he sounded pretty optimistic that he would be back with the Patriots, but supportive of Deion's position.

 

[SteveUK]

Ahh, Chase, we love you jetsfan we really do

I'd love to hear examples of teams that have lost 2400 receiving yards in one season and then ranked in the top five or top ten in passing yards the next year. If they did, I'd imagine they either added a big time WR in FA (Javon Walker) or drafted a stud rookie (Larry Fitzgerald) or had an injured player come back (Steve Smith). The Patriots added Chad Jackson, Doug Gabriel, Laurence Maroney, Garrett Mills, Dave Thomas and Reche Caldwell. That group combined for less than 1,000 yards last year.

That "group" of 6 players to whom you attach less than a 1000 yards combined include 4 rookies (and you don't include their college stats). The other 2 weren't regular startes for their teams either so quoting their combined stats is being a little economical with the truth

Your basic argument is "Tom Brady is awesome and it doesn't matter who he loses." But keep in mind that since the Patriots last won a Super Bowl they've lost:Charlie WeisRomeo CrennelEric ManginiRabih AbdullahJoe AndruzziTom AshworthMatt ChathamJe'Rod CherryCedric CobbsRohan DaveyChristian FauriaDavid GivensBrandon GorinBethel JohnsonTed JohnsonKevin KasperEthan KelleyAdrian KlemmJustin KurpeikisTy LawOmare LoweShawn MayerWillie McGinestJosh MillerEarthwind MorelandSteve NealDavid PattenRoman PhiferTyrone PooleDexter ReidP. K. SamKeith TraylorAdam VinatieriJed WeaverAnd, of course, maybe Deion Branch. You may think the Pats can just plug and play anyone, but that's just not true. You need talent and chemistry, and right now the Patriots passing game has none of that.(As for your question about losing 90% of your running game: The Colts lost 88.4% of team rushing yards with James' departure. The Broncos lost 70% of team rushing yards last off-season, but actually ran for 200 more yards last season than the one before. And perhaps most relevant, the '98 Colts lost 94.3% of team rushing yards, but ran for an additional 180+ yards in 1999.)

What an impressive list of players! Of course, most of them weren't actually starters (Cobbs, Davey, Kasper ( ), ad nauseum), but don't let that stand in the way of a good list Good luck to the Jets - they are going to need it (again).

 

[David Yudkin]

I was listening to sports radio in Boston today, and they've almost got it right. The only part they're missing is that Branch's agent does, in fact, have an exit strategy for all this, and that that exit strategy is to sign back with the Patriots when the grievance inevitably fails.

If you're interested in what's really going on here, I posted it the night of the deadline for Branch to be traded. I still believe that this is exactly what's going on:

link

link

I didn't agree the other night and I'm still not inclined to agree now. The Pats' 3-year, $18M extension would give Branch a 4-year deal worth $19M for an average of $4.75 million. The Jets or Seahawks offers were for 6 years, $39M or an average of $6.5 million per year.Part of what Branch is fighting for is essentially back pay--he insists that he's been dramatically underpaid and wants to wipe out his 2006 contract for $1 million. The Pats up until now are not entertaining the thought of voiding the final year of his current contract.

By my math, that makes the difference $1.75 million per year in addition to the Pats offer splitting the signing bonus while the other offers were upfront.

At this point, Branch will be most likely be asking for 6 years for $39 million and will not take much less than that. But as far as I know there still is no negotiating currently ongoing (at least I have not seen anything that indicates the team and Branch are actively negotiating). In fact, Mike Reiss of the Globe tends to think that the two sides are not currently negotiating and no offers are currently even open for debate (akthough that could change in a heartbeat.)

I don't see Branch folding up his tent and caving in for less than the offers he got from NYJ or SEA. Bottom line, the Pats didn't think he was worth that much before, so I doubt they will reconsider his value now.

 

[AB in DC]

I don't see Branch folding up his tent and caving in for less than the offers he got from NYJ or SEA. Bottom line, the Pats didn't think he was worth that much before

Are you sure about that? All we know is that their initial offer was less than this. We don't know what the actual value they place on him is. It's called negotiating strategy.