Doug B
Footballguy
Not trying to go after you, as I respect your postings on the FFA. Got to call you on this, though.The stir followed from the implicit value judgment, not from the mere expression of your opinion.
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Breastfeeding (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter the moops
- Start date
the moops
Footballguy
commisholio
Come out with your pants down!
I generally agree with moops, that babies should be breastfed if possible. My wife worked hard to breastfeed both of our boys almost exclusively. I think breastmilk is probably better for the baby than formula given that it has been evolutionarily optimized as infant feed, but I can certainly understand why people would choose to go with formula instead.
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Big_Russel
Footballguy
Another thing new age parents obsess over is the percentile heights and weights the doctors give. Especially parents with boys. OMG Little Johnny is in the 95th percentile for 3 month olds!! Then their reaction is either...He's gonna be a lineman in the NFL!!! Or...OMG we gotta get Little Johnny and Mom (if she's breastfeeding) on an organic no carb diet ASAP!! Our daughter is tiny for her age weightwise. 5-10th percentile. So when new age parents with 9-10 month olds see her out in public, think she's that age and see her running all over the place and talking, they are in awe and want to be close to greatness. When I tell them she is 15 months and small for her age, they then ask what's wrong with her.
Dead on. I dont care what percentile Little Johnny is in! If all the men in the family are 5'7 and known for the phrase "big things come in little packages", dont get hit by a bus day dreaming about your kid being the next Tom Brady. My neighbor is famous for this crap. "Hey Russ, look how close the boys are in height." Not for long Papa Smurf. 
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
I'll agree with that. You have yours, I have mine, no problem. Ball buster vs wearing the pants, pretty good IAMS.I give a female POV and always have, I've never said I speak for all females but I will post about my experience. If you take that as being a battered housewife, that's fine. There is a very different vibe saying "I'm so happy that she is able to to do this" vs what he wrote.
Heaven forbid a female makes an opinionated post on an all male board dealing with female issues. I must be a ball buster.
is it poo?
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
So you are Pro Choice!While you would never give a baby some man made formula that could never be better than mother nature, you sure aren't about to stop anyone that wants to go thru with it themselves.
jonessed
Footballguy
You should take a break from being a doochebag every so often. I imagine keeping it up all the time wears you down.
Big_Russel
Footballguy
Not many people know this, but it is actually Unicorn Feed.
BigJohn
Footballguy
<---3 kids under 5. #2 and #3 were both unexpected. #2 was planned, just happened sooner than said plan. #3 was a complete shot in the dark. Be careful what you wish for.
mr. furley
Footballguy
you're right. i should have had my mother in law pop in to my wife's office 4-5 times a day with the kids to breastfeed.You basically buy into everything the media puts out. Furley, you are losing your edge buddy. Why bother trying right?my wife and kids bonded just fine. as did i with my kids.wife tried for 2 months with the first. pain, time and the irregularity of how much comes out, how often the baby needs to eat and having to work all played a part. it's just not possible in the modern day for every woman to breastfeed.
eta: wife pumped til it dried up
Big_Russel
Footballguy
That sounds like the worst kind of Hell on Earth imaginable.
Frostillicus
Footballguy
I can't stop laughing at this.Got a bottle fed boy and a titty fed girl... When my son was two he could recite the Alphabet, count to 20, and was fully potty trained. My daughter is two now... I caught her trying to bite her own reflection in the mirror last night.
mr. furley
Footballguy
/threadgive it a few weeks/months. everyone has an opinion and everyone thinks theirs is right. have fun.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
The fact my posts make you think Im a DBag, what does that say about you? You love to make yourself feel good about being above the self defined "dooche" which by the way women should never ever do...(its in my current textbook) Maybe instead of name calling you should try being a little smarter and insightful not one of those things you called me. Must be a tough life you got there in NoCal.I sure thought blatant name callng was not allowed on the boards...I push it sometimes by saying you sound like a such and such but you really like to play the name game. I could just call you a blankety blank but the providers of this site prohibit it. So why should you be allowed to break the board rules? What was the point of your post Jones? Oh yeah you wanted to call me a device/instrument used to clean out female temples or scoop up the deposits whichever suits you. Since only an uninformed female or overbearing male are the ones buying these things I don't really feel the sting of the name like you wish it had.Let's all say Doochebag one last time on here and get it out of our systems. I think the board deserves a little better don't you?
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Big_Russel
Footballguy
Man, it's true. She's a dumbbell. When I caught her she turned back with the glare of the devil (eyebrows scrunched, lip curled) and said "Melmo's Wed (Elmo's Red)" then she scurried off into another room to do god knows what. WTF??I can't stop laughing at this.Got a bottle fed boy and a titty fed girl... When my son was two he could recite the Alphabet, count to 20, and was fully potty trained. My daughter is two now... I caught her trying to bite her own reflection in the mirror last night.
Rick James
Footballguy
MOP really dooshing it up in here
trogg78
Footballguy
The CDC should have any "back up" you need.
Notorious T.R.E.
Showdown!™ Administrator
Man, it's true. She's a dumbbell. When I caught her she turned back with the glare of the devil (eyebrows scrunched, lip curled) and said "Melmo's Wed (Elmo's Red)" then she scurried off into another room to do god knows what. WTF??I can't stop laughing at this.Got a bottle fed boy and a titty fed girl... When my son was two he could recite the Alphabet, count to 20, and was fully potty trained. My daughter is two now... I caught her trying to bite her own reflection in the mirror last night.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Really, everyting was fine until I posted at IAMS a bit...we have some soft serve males in here that feel bad for the wimmens no matter what. That's a shame because she did a fine job of standing up for herself and didn't need any men especially Jones to come in on a white horse screaming doosh at the top of his lungs as he races over the moat via the drawbridge. I think we are all just having a little fun with word play... I think people don't even read anyting in here anymore, just a few quck words and then its off to the races. If he would have read what IAMS posted back then maybe he would have waited with the comment. If he did read our exchange and still wanted to post what he did...I think he clearly is projectng at that point.
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jonessed
Footballguy
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
See, all is good. Im still a whatever and Jones has been entertained for the afternoon.
jonessed
Footballguy
I do like that word. It sounds better than calling someone a "Richard", but has the same generally meaning.You have the habit of flying off the handle at times and treating people poorly. Most of us do it, but you seem to have a unique zest and propensity for it.
See, all is good. Im still a whatever and Jones has been entertained for the afternoon.
Next time I will try and use a different word and see if that is more to your liking. My goal is to offend, but, of course, I don't want to over offend.
There are plenty of legitimate reasons a couple might choose a formula over breast-feeding. But I don't think siding with modern science or engineering is one of them.Dialysis machines are amazing examples of technological achievement, but are inferior to real kidneys. Synthetic hemoglobin-based oxygen carriers are likewise a godsend, but are inferior to real blood. Artificial hearts may be the pinnacle of modern medicine, but they are far inferior to real hearts.There's no reason to think that any artificially synthesized breast-milk substitute — however impressive it may be — will be superior to the real thing.
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Arizona Ron
Footballguy
The comparison is a bit of a stretch to say the least.
Frostillicus
Footballguy
My 3-year old little girl is an absolute genius. My 10-month old boy though, well, let's just say he's on the "bit your own reflection in the mirror" study plan.Man, it's true. She's a dumbbell. When I caught her she turned back with the glare of the devil (eyebrows scrunched, lip curled) and said "Melmo's Wed (Elmo's Red)" then she scurried off into another room to do god knows what. WTF??I can't stop laughing at this.Got a bottle fed boy and a titty fed girl... When my son was two he could recite the Alphabet, count to 20, and was fully potty trained. My daughter is two now... I caught her trying to bite her own reflection in the mirror last night.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
I wondered when the biggest raw milk drinker on the boards was going to chime in.
bostonfred
Footballguy
So a team of baseball players who are not on performance enhancing drugs would beat a team that was? I see no reason to believe that evolution is just "done" fine tuning humans or their breast milk. I also don't think human breastmilk is necessarily "better" than cow's milk (the base for all of those formulas). I drink cow's milk, and so do you. I would not drink human breast milk.
Otis
Footballguy
What reason do you have to think it's inferior? Turns out there are a lot of things modern science can do better than nature. There's no multivitamin tree, but it turns out those are pretty good for you.All of that ignores the fact that breast milk is influenced by a mother's diet. Lots of people in this world are awful eaters. Not all breast milk is created equal.
bostonfred
Footballguy
There was, but you chopped it down with an electric chainsaw because it blocked your view of your neighbors.
Yes. That's exactly what I said.Steroids aren't for optimizing reproductive success by way of promoting overall long-term health. They're for optimizing athletic performance even if that means sacrificing overall long-term health. So you shouldn't generalize from infant formula to steroids the way I accidentally, invisibly, unknowingly, apparently did.
Humans and their breastmilk will continue to evolve together in the future as they have in the past. As with kidneys and blood and hearts, breastmilk in a million years will be optimized for humans in a million years. That doesn't mean that breastmilk in a million years would be better for current humans than current breastmilk. And it says nothing at all about infant formula.
Cows and humans have slightly different metabolic needs. Human infants need (relatively) more sugar and more Omega-3 fats than calves because of their (relatively) larger brains, for example. Human infants also need correspondingly less protein than calves. It's not an accident that human breastmilk is higher in sugar and Omega-3s and lower in protein than cow's milk.I'm not knocking high-quality cow's milk. It's similar enough to human breastmilk to allow for healthy development of human infants. But there are differences, and the differences aren't arbitrary. They reflect the species' different metabolic needs.
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Otis
Footballguy
It's cool, I'm planning to plant a couple new trees with some color. :treestyle:
The theoretical reason is that the human immune system is just about as complicated as the human brain. (See Plague Time.) Colostrum plays a huge role in an infant's immune system. So I think the analogy to kidneys, blood, and hearts is apt. When evolution has spent millions of years fine-tuning a highly complex machine part, humans have had some success designing inferior-but-workable replacement parts. I know of no examples where humans have designed a superior or even equal replacement part.But the theoretical reasons are of little consequence compared to the empirical observations. I've seen descriptions of some observational studies that have been done, along with biologically realistic mechanisms explaining the results. But I don't have them bookmarked or anything; you can Google for them as well as I can.'Otis said:
Not when it comes to synthesizing food.
There's plenty of evidence that vitamins in pills are pretty useless compared to vitamins in real food.
Yes. Complete agreement here.
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Idiot Boxer
Footballguy
I'm sure little Oak's bark isn't cut and he may not be getting vaccinated.
bostonfred
Footballguy
Why were you bringing up dialysis machines, synthetic hemoglobin-based oxygen carriers, and artificial hearts along with breast milk if it wasn't to make the point that artficial things aren't as good as natural ones? If you'd prefer to talk about something besides PEDs used for short term athletic performance, then we can do that. People's long term health can benefit from synthetically-provided, naturally-produced materials where their ability to produce them is inhibited. That's what hormone therapy is all about. And yes, I know you weren't claiming that everyone should go through life with exactly the amount of testoserone they generate for themselves and no more. I just disagree with the implication that all natural things are necessarily better than formulas.'Maurile Tremblay said:
Otis
Footballguy
Replacement hips. Replacement teeth. At a minimum and without me even trying to think about this.
Did you confirm that those studies control for things that actually are useful in today's society? Maybe breastmilk is awesome for deer hunting skills, but formula makes you a better wage earner in modern society? I suspect the answer is you have no idea, and neither do I. Or anyone else for that matter. But surely folks should judge other folks' parenting efforts on this basis.
How do you know that?
I'm not sure that teeth qualify as being highly complicated. I'm also not sure that artificial teeth are superior to real teeth.I'm fairly certain that artificial hips are not superior to real hips. But it's not exactly my area of expertise.
I think that formula is associated with lower IQ, so if anything it'd probably be the reverse.
I wasn't judging anybody's parenting efforts. I explicitly said that there are plenty of legitimate reasons to formula-feed. I was disagreeing only with your contention that modern science and engineering formulas might have a leg up, nutritionally, on breast milk.
I read it on the internet.
the moops
Footballguy
On the first part
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the moops
Footballguy
Ask someone with a hip replacement whether would want their original hip back or not
That in no way implies that synthetic hormones are superior to endogenous hormones. It just means that some people can underproduce certain hormones under certain conditions, and where natural hormones are lacking, artificial hormones may be indicated. Similarly, where natural breastmilk is lacking, artificial breastmilk may be indicated. I never argued otherwise. That has no relevance to situations where non-defective, natural hormones or breastmilk aren't lacking.
Otis
Footballguy
Right. So we've established that you don't know which is better or whether any difference is consequential at all. That about right?I suspect the difference, if any, is nominal. And I have no idea which way it goes. But I'll take something made by modern science over what's in the boobs of one of moops' chicks every day of the week.
Are you seriously suggesting that the internet could be wrong?Wikipedia: "Though it now is almost universally prescribed, in some countries in the 1950s the practice of breastfeeding went through a period where it was out of vogue and the use of infant formula was considered superior to breast milk. However, it is now universally recognized that there is no commercial formula that can equal breast milk." And: "Use of infant formula is cited in numerous health risks. Studies have found infants in developed countries who consume formula are at increased risk for acute otitis media, non-specific gastroenteritis, severe lower respiratory tract infections, atopic dermatitis, asthma, obesity, type 1 and 2 diabetes, sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS), eczema, necrotizing enterocolitis and autism when compared to infants who are breastfed. Although some early studies have found an association between infant formula and lower cognitive development, other studies have found no correlation. Recently, though, more questions have arisen. It has been discovered that iron supplementation in baby formula is linked to lowered I.Q. and other neurodevelopmental delays."
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I don't know what otitis is, but I assure you that I did not make it up. 
El Floppo
Footballguy
fwiw, the wife started off breast-feeding with our son... latched on like a champ from day one, no pain for her. But it became clear she wasn't producing enough milk after about a month. Talked to the pediatrician and a boob milk consultant and both said the same thing- the baby needs to eat first and foremost. Pediatrician added that in all his years working (he's nearing retirement) in both San Francisco and NYC, he's never seen a difference in how a kid turns out based on whether they were breast or bottle fed. There are obvious advantages to tapping at the source and it's great to be informed about the pros and cons about each- which we do our best to be- but I lose immediate respect for anybody else that think they know the "right" way of raising my kid.'the moops said:
(and Moops I do see that you qualified this post above with "to us"- so this post is directed at earlier Moops, not recent Moops)
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