Brett Favre's year, game by game (2 Viewers)

[pigskinliquors]

He played the same way two years ago(2003).

He was careless w/ the ball all season. Just like last night he was throwing into double/triple coverage as if he didn't give a damn.

He bounced back well in 04'

Bottom line, he does what he wants when he wants, and is just as good as he'd like to be. Or is a careless as he wants.

I'm pissed at him, he cost me my Dynasty league playoffs w/ all those picks.

I've watched him closely and he could be great, but doesn't care anymore

This is pretty much how I see it as well, though I think a large part of it is that he's lost a little bit of his accuracy, and hasn't adjusted his game to the team. He has a decent defense this year = moving the chains a little, and not turning the ball over are the key (see Da Bears this year). He's still gunslinging with a little less accuracy (= a bad combination) and is costing his team with his turnovers.

 

[sho nuff]

Here are some interesting numbers:

Green Bay is 8th in the NFL in total defense. They are 18th in total offense.

Yet, they are 3-11. Why?

Well, they are 31st in the NFL in takeaway/giveaway ratio with a +/- of -20.

Favre leads the NFL in INT's with 24. Aaron Brooks is 2nd with 17.

Draw whatever conclusion you want to from those numbers.

Good posting, seriously. But, like most QB's some of their INT's are from tipped balls. Favre, I believe, has had more INT's tipped this year then other QB's. Is this an excuse? No, but diagnose the numbers instead of saying XYZ happened therefore this is the way it is. People are not saying Favre is having a bad year, but put ANY QB on Green Bay this year without the weapons that Green Bay had before injury and ANY QB would have similar numbers with similar results. Is Favre having a bad year? Yes, nobody is going to deny that. But, when teams can stack 7/8 in the box and with no threats at WR what do you expect?

IF they are stacking the line, how do you explain Gado's success?Also, IMHO the Favre of old would have this team at .500 or better; as would multiple other QB's who are able to minimize mistakes. Regading tipped passes, Favre has also had multiple INT's dropped this year (I can recall 5 from last nights game!).

= all QB's have dropped passes (some hurt, some help!).

I think it is the opposite in some cases (stacking the line vs. not). I think most teams are not even bringing alot of pressure and are dropping back alot against him and waiting for him to make a mistake. Plus with a bad line, they are still getting pressure. Last night was not as much the case as they were bringing the heat

 

[Stinger Ray]

No way am I going to try and debate this subject with mental midgets that know nothing about football.

Keep it up, it is amusing stuff to read.

at mental midgets

 

[Holy Roller]

.................It looks to me that Favre is the problem, and the surrounding cast isn't so bad!!

Meh...... what DW said, something about not worth the effort....

All I'm trying to show is that in MULTIPLE games one single play being made is the only difference between a win and a loss. The Favre of old, and many qb's in the league this year would have made that one big play. Their team is not all that bad (well, last night they certainly were). They've been incredibly competitive, but Favre has made too many mistakes. Mistakes which have often been the difference between a win and a loss.

Sadly, I have to agree with this. I've been one to defend Favre this season, and I think we can all agree that there are legitimate factors that have come into play that have affected him and the rest of the offense--namely the turnover of the offensive line and a large number of injuries on offense. But more and more I have seen his questionable decisions become a much larger part of the equation. Last night there were several times that he just heaved the ball without even looking. And the one to Ferguson clearly looked to me like he was doing it just to avoid the rush. I'm a big Favre advocate, and I never thought I would say this, but if this is indicative of the type of play he will continue to exhibit moving forward, it's time to retire---for his own good and for that of Packer fans.

 

[pigskinliquors]

While I added the following to the initial post I thought it might be lost in the long analysis.Favre's final numbers for the year are:372/607 for 3,881 yards; 20 TD's, 29 INT'sFavre leads all QB's in INT's (12 more than 2nd worst) and 2nd worst in FumblesQB rating of 70.9 = 48 QB's had a better rating than him this yearAdditionally; Favre has the most INT's he's ever had in his career, and the fewest TD passes since 1993. While people have argued the # of drops that his receivers have had, his completion % of 61.3% is almost identical to his career average.Marino's final year (one too many IMHO) was the only of his career that he threw more INT's than TD's. Favre has done it three times in his career, but none near the 20/29 ratio of this year. While Favre in his day was one of the best I've ever seen; this looks like the year for him to step away.

 

[Challenge Everything]

While I added the following to the initial post I thought it might be lost in the long analysis.

Favre's final numbers for the year are:

372/607 for 3,881 yards; 20 TD's, 29 INT's

Favre leads all QB's in INT's (12 more than 2nd worst) and 2nd worst in Fumbles

QB rating of 70.9 = 48 QB's had a better rating than him this year

Additionally; Favre has the most INT's he's ever had in his career, and the fewest TD passes since 1993. While people have argued the # of drops that his receivers have had, his completion % of 61.3% is almost identical to his career average.

Marino's final year (one too many IMHO) was the only of his career that he threw more INT's than TD's. Favre has done it three times in his career, but none near the 20/29 ratio of this year. While Favre in his day was one of the best I've ever seen; this looks like the year for him to step away.

 

[gman8343]

Here are some interesting numbers:

Green Bay is 8th in the NFL in total defense.  They are 18th in total offense. 

Yet, they are 3-11.  Why? 

Well, they are 31st in the NFL in takeaway/giveaway ratio with a +/- of -20. 

Favre leads the NFL in INT's with 24.  Aaron Brooks is 2nd with 17. 

Draw whatever conclusion you want to from those numbers.

Good posting, seriously. But, like most QB's some of their INT's are from tipped balls. Favre, I believe, has had more INT's tipped this year then other QB's. Is this an excuse? No, but diagnose the numbers instead of saying XYZ happened therefore this is the way it is. People are not saying Favre is having a bad year, but put ANY QB on Green Bay this year without the weapons that Green Bay had before injury and ANY QB would have similar numbers with similar results. Is Favre having a bad year? Yes, nobody is going to deny that. But, when teams can stack 7/8 in the box and with no threats at WR what do you expect?

Didn't McNabb make Pro Bowls with worse WRs than Favre had had this year? (Pingston, Thrash etc...)

 

[jcjets]

Are you telling me that J.Walker makes B.Favre? I thought it was B.Favre who made J.Walker?Which one is more likely to happenIf J.Walker goes to Houston, does D.Carr throw for 20 TDs?If B.Favre goes to Houston does A.Johnson get 8+ TDs?Take away Walker from Hall of Famer\Maddens fantasy guy and he crumbles? If this is true then maybe we should all re-think how good of a QB he is.Lets face it Brett should have retired last year. If he plays again next year he is just going to look even worse.

 

[Challenge Everything]

Are you telling me that J.Walker makes B.Favre? I thought it was B.Favre who made J.Walker?

Which one is more likely to happen

If J.Walker goes to Houston, does D.Carr throw for 20 TDs?

If B.Favre goes to Houston does A.Johnson get 8+ TDs?

Take away Walker from Hall of Famer\Maddens fantasy guy and he crumbles? If this is true then maybe we should all re-think how good of a QB he is.

Lets face it Brett should have retired last year. If he plays again next year he is just going to look even worse.

Ahman Green and a threatening running game have as much to do with the QB's success as a viable deep threat. As does a decent WR #2. Driver is a good WR1A but not a true WR1. Could Favre have had a better year? Yes, no one denies that. But to say Favre playing with a bunch of backups should have near the same stats is rediculous.

 

[Men-in-Cleats]

He played the same way two years ago(2003).

He was careless w/ the ball all season. Just like last night he was throwing into double/triple coverage as if he didn't give a damn.

He bounced back well in 04'

Bottom line, he does what he wants when he wants, and is just as good as he'd like to be. Or is a careless as he wants.

I'm pissed at him, he cost me my Dynasty league playoffs w/ all those picks.

I've watched him closely and he could be great, but doesn't care anymore

This is pretty much how I see it as well, though I think a large part of it is that he's lost a little bit of his accuracy, and hasn't adjusted his game to the team. He has a decent defense this year = moving the chains a little, and not turning the ball over are the key (see Da Bears this year). He's still gunslinging with a little less accuracy (= a bad combination) and is costing his team with his turnovers.

Comparing to the Bears is just downright silly. The Bears had one of the better offensive lines in football this year and they were one of the better rushing teams all throughout the season. GB's team lost two of their best linemen to free agency and didn't show any ability to run the ball until way, way into the season when Gado emerged. Prior to that emergence, the team lived and died on Favre's arm and it is very shortsighted to just look at the mistakes without taking the whole picture into consideration. Sure they were in a lot of games and a mistake or two looked pivotal, but did you ever stop and consider how they scored enough points to be in some of those games? If they just ask their QB to just not make mistakes, similar to the Bears, the Packers don't have the weapons to put any points on the board. They didn't have the running game to keep the chains moving, to eat up clock, and to allow the defense to rest. If they went completely conservative on offense there would be even more 3 and outs, the defense would wear down, and a lot of games that were close at the half wouldn't be close by the end of the game. He was just as much responsible for all of the points they did score this season as he was for the turnovers and mistakes he made. He doesn't get a free pass for his awful season, but given the lack of targets, the number of times he had no time to throw before being hit or pressured, and the complete lack of a running game for much of the season I don't think many QB's would have led them to a winning season. The ones that would have made fewer mistakes also would have put fewer points on the board while ones that put up more points also would have had to do so at the expense of turnovers since they'd have had to try to make plays just as Favre did. A caretaker at QB would have had no more success in GB this year than Favre did.

 

[rhawkins68]

I love reading stuff in the Improv threads.

 

[Fla\/\/ed]

Are you telling me that J.Walker makes B.Favre? I thought it was B.Favre who made J.Walker?

Which one is more likely to happen

If J.Walker goes to Houston, does D.Carr throw for 20 TDs?

If B.Favre goes to Houston does A.Johnson get 8+ TDs?

Take away Walker from Hall of Famer\Maddens fantasy guy and he crumbles? If this is true then maybe we should all re-think how good of a QB he is.

Lets face it Brett should have retired last year. If he plays again next year he is just going to look even worse.

Again, another person with no clue as to what took place with the Packers this season.

 

[Marms]

Here are some interesting Packer Offensive stats that will help shed some additional light on Favre's season (and recent years):

http://www.jsonline.com/packer/news/jan06/383129.asp

Major dropoff: The offensive line allowed 106 "pressures" (combination of sacks, knockdowns and hurries), up from 64 in '04 and 49 in '03 and the highest total during Larry Beightol's seven seasons as coach.

Guard Will Whitticker allowed the most "pressures" with 30½, followed by guard-center Scott Wells with 22½, tackle Chad Clifton with 17½, guard Adrian Klemm with 16, tackle Mark Tauscher with 14½, center Mike Flanagan with 8½ and center-guard Grey Ruegamer with 5½.

Clifton, who had allowed just five sacks in the previous three seasons, and Whitticker led the team in sacks allowed with 3½. Wells and Brett Favre each were responsible for 3, followed by Tauscher with 2 and Flanagan with 1½.

In Beightol's seven-year tenure, the Packers allowed an average of 2.5 knockdowns in 118 games. In the seven-year tenure of his predecessor, Tom Lovat, the Packers allowed an average of 3.36 in 126 games. Two major differences in the eras were the rules emphasis protecting quarterbacks and Favre's increasing pocket awareness.

By subjective count, the most "bad" runs were allowed by Clifton and Whitticker with 12½. A "bad" run is defined as a carry for 1 yard or less not occurring in short-yardage, goal-line or kneel-down situations.

They were followed by Flanagan with 10½, Klemm with 9½, Wells and Bubba Franks with 9, Tauscher, Henderson and tight end David Martin with 7½, fullback Vonta Leach with 6½, Kevin Barry with 5 and Ruegamer with 4½.

Make that catch: The Packers dropped 25 passes, giving them an average of 2.21 per game during coach Mike Sherman's 102-game tenure. Under Mike Holmgren, the drop average was 1.99 in 126 games.

The most drops, six, were charged to Donald Driver but he also was the target of the most passes, 149. Driver's drop rate of 4% was the lowest of his career.

Following, in order, were Henderson, none in 34 (0.0%); Chatman, two in 86 (2.3%); Franks, one in 39 (2.6%); Martin, one in 39 (2.6%); Fisher, two in 65 (3.1%); Green, one in 26 (3.9%); Ferguson, three in 58 (5.2%); and Donald Lee, four in 53 (7.6%).

Henderson hasn't dropped any of the 77 balls thrown to him in the last two seasons. Leach dropped three in 10 (30%).

The Favre file: Favre lost seven fumbles, his most since 1993. Of his 10 fumbles, six were on sacks and another two when the ball slipped from his hand without being hit.

Favre's career-high total of 29 interceptions broke down like this: three came with the Packers in the lead, 24 with them behind and two with the score tied; a total of 12 came from shotgun formation, including eight of the last 11; only eight, or 27.6%, came against the blitz; his average release time was 2.95 seconds; Driver was the intended receiver on 11, four more than Ferguson; cornerbacks intercepted 15, safeties had seven, linebackers had four and nickel backs had three; 20 occurred with at least three split receivers on the field; and 18 occurred in the second half, including 13 in the fourth quarter.

 

[Crippler]

Gteat Stuff MarmsDo you have how many hit the WR hands and was not caught and interecepted. I think I counted at least 10 duing the year. And some where terrible with not even a defender around them.I do think that Brett played a little more playground after the Packers where out of playoff contention as his second half was terrible. But if your not going to make the playoffs than you might as well have some fun. Ala the Texans who seemed to blow every game they where in this year in the second half. High draft pick Baby. Packers now pick 5th and because of this should get some nice help this year. If you cant make the playoffs, than you might as well lose. I am a believer that the Packers can pull a Bucs/Bears sesason next year and contend for playoffs and a title. But only with Brett.

 

[Aaronstory]

Are you telling me that J.Walker makes B.Favre?  I thought it was B.Favre who made J.Walker?

Which one is more likely to happen

If J.Walker goes to Houston, does D.Carr throw for 20 TDs?

If B.Favre goes to Houston does A.Johnson get 8+ TDs?

Take away Walker from Hall of Famer\Maddens fantasy guy and he crumbles? If this is true then maybe we should all re-think how good of a QB he is.

Lets face it Brett should have retired last year.  If he plays again next year he is just going to look even worse.

Again, another person with no clue as to what took place with the Packers this season.

There are a lot of people in this thread slinging opinions around based on stats and what they've read, and maybe by watching the odd game. If you watched every Packer game from opening kickoff to the end of the game, week in and week out, you know most of this is just nonsense.

 

[Man in the yellow hat]

Here are some interesting Packer Offensive stats that will help shed some additional light on Favre's season (and recent years):

http://www.jsonline.com/packer/news/jan06/383129.asp

Favre's career-high total of 29 interceptions broke down like this: three came with the Packers in the lead, 24 with them behind and two with the score tied; a total of 12 came from shotgun formation, including eight of the last 11; only eight, or 27.6%, came against the blitz; his average release time was 2.95 seconds; Driver was the intended receiver on 11, four more than Ferguson; cornerbacks intercepted 15, safeties had seven, linebackers had four and nickel backs had three; 20 occurred with at least three split receivers on the field; and 18 occurred in the second half, including 13 in the fourth quarter.

That seems important to me.......

 

[pigskinliquors]

Are you telling me that J.Walker makes B.Favre? I thought it was B.Favre who made J.Walker?

Which one is more likely to happen

If J.Walker goes to Houston, does D.Carr throw for 20 TDs?

If B.Favre goes to Houston does A.Johnson get 8+ TDs?

Take away Walker from Hall of Famer\Maddens fantasy guy and he crumbles? If this is true then maybe we should all re-think how good of a QB he is.

Lets face it Brett should have retired last year. If he plays again next year he is just going to look even worse.

Again, another person with no clue as to what took place with the Packers this season.

There are a lot of people in this thread slinging opinions around based on stats and what they've read, and maybe by watching the odd game. If you watched every Packer game from opening kickoff to the end of the game, week in and week out, you know most of this is just nonsense.

I watched virtually every Packer game this year, and am not "slinging opinions." I have posted quite a few stats which are fact-based, not my opinion. The only opinion statements I have made are related to the notion that IF Favre had made fewer mistakes, the Packers could have had a much better record. Look closely at their close losses, and the mistakes that Brett made. Take those mistakes away, and IMHO (here is one of those "slinging opinions") the Packers could have ended with 9 or 10 wins without much difficulty. I believe the Brett of old could have led this team to 10 wins, with their schedule and defense this year.I am certainly not stating that it is ALL Brett's fault, as the team has multiple weaknesses. Yet, this team was still very close to being competitive.

They were within one touchdown, in the FOURTH QUARTER of their opponent in EVERY GAME EXCEPT ONE this year, yet only had four wins.

I believe the Brett of old (and multiple other current qb's) would have taken the team on his shoulders down the stretch, and would have won quite a few of these games. I believe the same thing about Marino in his last year = The magic had finally left.

 

[Fla\/\/ed]

Are you telling me that J.Walker makes B.Favre?  I thought it was B.Favre who made J.Walker?

Which one is more likely to happen

If J.Walker goes to Houston, does D.Carr throw for 20 TDs?

If B.Favre goes to Houston does A.Johnson get 8+ TDs?

Take away Walker from Hall of Famer\Maddens fantasy guy and he crumbles? If this is true then maybe we should all re-think how good of a QB he is.

Lets face it Brett should have retired last year.  If he plays again next year he is just going to look even worse.

Again, another person with no clue as to what took place with the Packers this season.

There are a lot of people in this thread slinging opinions around based on stats and what they've read, and maybe by watching the odd game. If you watched every Packer game from opening kickoff to the end of the game, week in and week out, you know most of this is just nonsense.

I watched virtually every Packer game this year, and am not "slinging opinions." I have posted quite a few stats which are fact-based, not my opinion. The only opinion statements I have made are related to the notion that IF Favre had made fewer mistakes, the Packers could have had a much better record. Look closely at their close losses, and the mistakes that Brett made. Take those mistakes away, and IMHO (here is one of those "slinging opinions") the Packers could have ended with 9 or 10 wins without much difficulty. I believe the Brett of old could have led this team to 10 wins, with their schedule and defense this year.

"the Packers could have ended with 9 or 10 wins without much difficulty." If you watched the Packers every game and every play this year you would understand how ignorant that comment is.

 

[pigskinliquors]

Are you telling me that J.Walker makes B.Favre? I thought it was B.Favre who made J.Walker?

Which one is more likely to happen

If J.Walker goes to Houston, does D.Carr throw for 20 TDs?

If B.Favre goes to Houston does A.Johnson get 8+ TDs?

Take away Walker from Hall of Famer\Maddens fantasy guy and he crumbles? If this is true then maybe we should all re-think how good of a QB he is.

Lets face it Brett should have retired last year. If he plays again next year he is just going to look even worse.

Again, another person with no clue as to what took place with the Packers this season.

There are a lot of people in this thread slinging opinions around based on stats and what they've read, and maybe by watching the odd game. If you watched every Packer game from opening kickoff to the end of the game, week in and week out, you know most of this is just nonsense.

I watched virtually every Packer game this year, and am not "slinging opinions." I have posted quite a few stats which are fact-based, not my opinion. The only opinion statements I have made are related to the notion that IF Favre had made fewer mistakes, the Packers could have had a much better record. Look closely at their close losses, and the mistakes that Brett made. Take those mistakes away, and IMHO (here is one of those "slinging opinions") the Packers could have ended with 9 or 10 wins without much difficulty. I believe the Brett of old could have led this team to 10 wins, with their schedule and defense this year.

"the Packers could have ended with 9 or 10 wins without much difficulty." If you watched the Packers every game and every play this year you would understand how ignorant that comment is.

I'll re-iterate: The Packers were within one touchdown in EVERY game, but one in the Fourth Quarter this year. Look at the games individually, and tell me which 7 they were out of, and couldn't have won? In fact give me three games that you felt they were out of it in the fourth quarter?

 

[Fla\/\/ed]

Are you telling me that J.Walker makes B.Favre?  I thought it was B.Favre who made J.Walker?

Which one is more likely to happen

If J.Walker goes to Houston, does D.Carr throw for 20 TDs?

If B.Favre goes to Houston does A.Johnson get 8+ TDs?

Take away Walker from Hall of Famer\Maddens fantasy guy and he crumbles? If this is true then maybe we should all re-think how good of a QB he is.

Lets face it Brett should have retired last year.  If he plays again next year he is just going to look even worse.

Again, another person with no clue as to what took place with the Packers this season.

There are a lot of people in this thread slinging opinions around based on stats and what they've read, and maybe by watching the odd game. If you watched every Packer game from opening kickoff to the end of the game, week in and week out, you know most of this is just nonsense.

I watched virtually every Packer game this year, and am not "slinging opinions." I have posted quite a few stats which are fact-based, not my opinion. The only opinion statements I have made are related to the notion that IF Favre had made fewer mistakes, the Packers could have had a much better record. Look closely at their close losses, and the mistakes that Brett made. Take those mistakes away, and IMHO (here is one of those "slinging opinions") the Packers could have ended with 9 or 10 wins without much difficulty. I believe the Brett of old could have led this team to 10 wins, with their schedule and defense this year.

"the Packers could have ended with 9 or 10 wins without much difficulty." If you watched the Packers every game and every play this year you would understand how ignorant that comment is.

I'll re-iterate: The Packers were within one touchdown in EVERY game, but one in the Fourth Quarter this year. Look at the games individually, and tell me which 7 they were out of, and couldn't have won? In fact give me three games that you felt they were out of it in the fourth quarter?

Go look at how many INTs Favre threw when the Packers were ahead or tied. He only threw 4 INTs when the Packers were ahead or tied. That doesn't seem to indicate that Favre was the only problem when it comes to the Packers this year.Your premise is that Favre put the Packers in position to lose all the games this year. The TEAM lost those games yet you want to blame Favre for all the losses. You have no idea what took place around him this year. Every NFL expert that follows the league has stated the exact opposite of what you believe in this thread. The Packers were a terrible TEAM this year decimated by injuries.

 

[Fla\/\/ed]

.................It looks to me that Favre is the problem, and the surrounding cast isn't so bad!!

Meh...... what DW said, something about not worth the effort....

 

[Fla\/\/ed]

.................It looks to me that Favre is the problem, and the surrounding cast isn't so bad!!

Meh...... what DW said, something about not worth the effort....

All I'm trying to show is that in MULTIPLE games one single play being made is the only difference between a win and a loss.

"one single play being made is the only difference between a win and a loss."That quote alone shows you know nothing about football.

It's also funny you felt the need to bump your thread.

 

[pigskinliquors]

Are you telling me that J.Walker makes B.Favre? I thought it was B.Favre who made J.Walker?

Which one is more likely to happen

If J.Walker goes to Houston, does D.Carr throw for 20 TDs?

If B.Favre goes to Houston does A.Johnson get 8+ TDs?

Take away Walker from Hall of Famer\Maddens fantasy guy and he crumbles? If this is true then maybe we should all re-think how good of a QB he is.

Lets face it Brett should have retired last year. If he plays again next year he is just going to look even worse.

Again, another person with no clue as to what took place with the Packers this season.

There are a lot of people in this thread slinging opinions around based on stats and what they've read, and maybe by watching the odd game. If you watched every Packer game from opening kickoff to the end of the game, week in and week out, you know most of this is just nonsense.

I watched virtually every Packer game this year, and am not "slinging opinions." I have posted quite a few stats which are fact-based, not my opinion. The only opinion statements I have made are related to the notion that IF Favre had made fewer mistakes, the Packers could have had a much better record. Look closely at their close losses, and the mistakes that Brett made. Take those mistakes away, and IMHO (here is one of those "slinging opinions") the Packers could have ended with 9 or 10 wins without much difficulty. I believe the Brett of old could have led this team to 10 wins, with their schedule and defense this year.

"the Packers could have ended with 9 or 10 wins without much difficulty." If you watched the Packers every game and every play this year you would understand how ignorant that comment is.

I'll re-iterate: The Packers were within one touchdown in EVERY game, but one in the Fourth Quarter this year. Look at the games individually, and tell me which 7 they were out of, and couldn't have won? In fact give me three games that you felt they were out of it in the fourth quarter?

Go look at how many INTs Favre threw when the Packers were ahead or tied. Your premise is that Favre lost those games this year. The TEAM lost those games yet you want to blame Favre for all the losses. You have no idea what took place around him this year. Every NFL expert that follows the league has stated the exact opposite of what you believe in this thread. The Packers were a terrible TEAM this year decimated by injuries.

Favre threw a vast majority of his INT's when they were within one TD. You are very correct that the TEAM lost those games = no doubt. Yet, the team around him was very competitive. The Packers did have a lot of injuries = yes; but they were quite competitive.

BTW: Which three games were this "terrible team" out of this year?

 

[Fla\/\/ed]

Are you telling me that J.Walker makes B.Favre?  I thought it was B.Favre who made J.Walker?

Which one is more likely to happen

If J.Walker goes to Houston, does D.Carr throw for 20 TDs?

If B.Favre goes to Houston does A.Johnson get 8+ TDs?

Take away Walker from Hall of Famer\Maddens fantasy guy and he crumbles? If this is true then maybe we should all re-think how good of a QB he is.

Lets face it Brett should have retired last year.  If he plays again next year he is just going to look even worse.

Again, another person with no clue as to what took place with the Packers this season.

There are a lot of people in this thread slinging opinions around based on stats and what they've read, and maybe by watching the odd game. If you watched every Packer game from opening kickoff to the end of the game, week in and week out, you know most of this is just nonsense.

I watched virtually every Packer game this year, and am not "slinging opinions." I have posted quite a few stats which are fact-based, not my opinion. The only opinion statements I have made are related to the notion that IF Favre had made fewer mistakes, the Packers could have had a much better record. Look closely at their close losses, and the mistakes that Brett made. Take those mistakes away, and IMHO (here is one of those "slinging opinions") the Packers could have ended with 9 or 10 wins without much difficulty. I believe the Brett of old could have led this team to 10 wins, with their schedule and defense this year.

"the Packers could have ended with 9 or 10 wins without much difficulty." If you watched the Packers every game and every play this year you would understand how ignorant that comment is.

I'll re-iterate: The Packers were within one touchdown in EVERY game, but one in the Fourth Quarter this year. Look at the games individually, and tell me which 7 they were out of, and couldn't have won? In fact give me three games that you felt they were out of it in the fourth quarter?

Go look at how many INTs Favre threw when the Packers were ahead or tied. Your premise is that Favre lost those games this year. The TEAM lost those games yet you want to blame Favre for all the losses. You have no idea what took place around him this year. Every NFL expert that follows the league has stated the exact opposite of what you believe in this thread. The Packers were a terrible TEAM this year decimated by injuries.

Favre threw a vast majority of his INT's when they were within one TD. You are very correct that the TEAM lost those games = no doubt. Yet, the team around him was very competitive. The Packers did have a lot of injuries = yes; but they were quite competitive.

BTW: Which three games were this "terrible team" out of this year?

I should have listened to the other guys in this thread. You are beyond educating on this. The team around him wasn't competitive. The team was terrible this year. The team didn't produce many turnovers, so on and so on.Favre had his problems this year and hurt the team but no way no how was he to blame for every loss as you seem to think.

Hope you bump this thread again in 2-3 weeks, it will make for a good read.

 

[pigskinliquors]

Are you telling me that J.Walker makes B.Favre? I thought it was B.Favre who made J.Walker?

Which one is more likely to happen

If J.Walker goes to Houston, does D.Carr throw for 20 TDs?

If B.Favre goes to Houston does A.Johnson get 8+ TDs?

Take away Walker from Hall of Famer\Maddens fantasy guy and he crumbles? If this is true then maybe we should all re-think how good of a QB he is.

Lets face it Brett should have retired last year. If he plays again next year he is just going to look even worse.

Again, another person with no clue as to what took place with the Packers this season.

There are a lot of people in this thread slinging opinions around based on stats and what they've read, and maybe by watching the odd game. If you watched every Packer game from opening kickoff to the end of the game, week in and week out, you know most of this is just nonsense.

I watched virtually every Packer game this year, and am not "slinging opinions." I have posted quite a few stats which are fact-based, not my opinion. The only opinion statements I have made are related to the notion that IF Favre had made fewer mistakes, the Packers could have had a much better record. Look closely at their close losses, and the mistakes that Brett made. Take those mistakes away, and IMHO (here is one of those "slinging opinions") the Packers could have ended with 9 or 10 wins without much difficulty. I believe the Brett of old could have led this team to 10 wins, with their schedule and defense this year.

"the Packers could have ended with 9 or 10 wins without much difficulty." If you watched the Packers every game and every play this year you would understand how ignorant that comment is.

I'll re-iterate: The Packers were within one touchdown in EVERY game, but one in the Fourth Quarter this year. Look at the games individually, and tell me which 7 they were out of, and couldn't have won? In fact give me three games that you felt they were out of it in the fourth quarter?

Go look at how many INTs Favre threw when the Packers were ahead or tied. Your premise is that Favre lost those games this year. The TEAM lost those games yet you want to blame Favre for all the losses. You have no idea what took place around him this year. Every NFL expert that follows the league has stated the exact opposite of what you believe in this thread. The Packers were a terrible TEAM this year decimated by injuries.

Favre threw a vast majority of his INT's when they were within one TD. You are very correct that the TEAM lost those games = no doubt. Yet, the team around him was very competitive. The Packers did have a lot of injuries = yes; but they were quite competitive.

BTW: Which three games were this "terrible team" out of this year?

I should have listened to the other guys in this thread. You are beyond educating on this. The team around him wasn't competitive. The team was terrible this year. The team didn't produce many turnovers, so on and so on.Favre had his problems this year and hurt the team but no way no how was he to blame for every loss as you seem to think.

Hope you bump this thread again in 2-3 weeks, it will make for a good read.

I am not saying that Favre is solely to blame for every (even any) losses. What I am saying (for the umpteenth time); is that Favre in his day would have pulled a good portion of these games from losses to wins.Again: Which three games were this "terrrible team" out of this year?

 

[Challenge Everything]

I am not saying that Favre is solely to blame for every (even any) losses. What I am saying (for the umpteenth time); is that Favre in his day would have pulled a good portion of these games from losses to wins.

Again: Which three games were this "terrrible team" out of this year?

All you are doing is looking at the final score and then basing your argument on that. Did the Packers have the ball last? Were they the last team to score thus making the final score inconsistent with your argument. Were the Packers leading and scored on in the final minutes? Give us the facts instead of giving us the final score and saying "Favre would have won the game in the past." Goes to show "stat watchers" are not game watchers and your argument falls flat way before you even utter a sentence.

 

[pigskinliquors]

I am not saying that Favre is solely to blame for every (even any) losses. What I am saying (for the umpteenth time); is that Favre in his day would have pulled a good portion of these games from losses to wins.

Again: Which three games were this "terrrible team" out of this year?

All you are doing is looking at the final score and then basing your argument on that. Did the Packers have the ball last? Were they the last team to score thus making the final score inconsistent with your argument. Were the Packers leading and scored on in the final minutes? Give us the facts instead of giving us the final score and saying "Favre would have won the game in the past." Goes to show "stat watchers" are not game watchers and your argument falls flat way before you even utter a sentence.

Facts are posted in the initial post of this thread. I've gone through each game, play by play to create the initial post. I'm now asking you to do the same, and show me which three games the Packers were out of in the fourth quarter this year.

 

[Ghost Rider]

I should have listened to the other guys in this thread. You are beyond educating on this. The team around him wasn't competitive. The team was terrible this year.

8 of the 12 GB losses were by 7 points or less. A 9th was a one-possession game (the first Bears game) until Favre threw an INT return for a TD late in the game. I would say they were darn competitive.

 

[Challenge Everything]

I am not saying that Favre is solely to blame for every (even any) losses.  What I am saying (for the umpteenth time); is that Favre in his day would have pulled a good portion of these games from losses to wins.

Again: Which three games were this "terrrible team" out of this year?

All you are doing is looking at the final score and then basing your argument on that. Did the Packers have the ball last? Were they the last team to score thus making the final score inconsistent with your argument. Were the Packers leading and scored on in the final minutes? Give us the facts instead of giving us the final score and saying "Favre would have won the game in the past." Goes to show "stat watchers" are not game watchers and your argument falls flat way before you even utter a sentence.

Facts are posted in the initial post of this thread. I've gone through each game, play by play to create the initial post. I'm now asking you to do the same, and show me which three games the Packers were out of in the fourth quarter this year.

Those are pretty shotty facts to base your argument on. Where is the time elaspe of each of those plays? Where is the possession arrow near the end of the game? There is a huge difference saying "Brett Favre threw an INT for a TD" instead of saying "with 2 minutes left Favre's INT broke the tie that cost the victory."

 

[Aaronstory]

Are you telling me that J.Walker makes B.Favre?  I thought it was B.Favre who made J.Walker?

Which one is more likely to happen

If J.Walker goes to Houston, does D.Carr throw for 20 TDs?

If B.Favre goes to Houston does A.Johnson get 8+ TDs?

Take away Walker from Hall of Famer\Maddens fantasy guy and he crumbles? If this is true then maybe we should all re-think how good of a QB he is.

Lets face it Brett should have retired last year.  If he plays again next year he is just going to look even worse.

Again, another person with no clue as to what took place with the Packers this season.

There are a lot of people in this thread slinging opinions around based on stats and what they've read, and maybe by watching the odd game. If you watched every Packer game from opening kickoff to the end of the game, week in and week out, you know most of this is just nonsense.

I watched virtually every Packer game this year, and am not "slinging opinions." I have posted quite a few stats which are fact-based, not my opinion. The only opinion statements I have made are related to the notion that IF Favre had made fewer mistakes, the Packers could have had a much better record. Look closely at their close losses, and the mistakes that Brett made. Take those mistakes away, and IMHO (here is one of those "slinging opinions") the Packers could have ended with 9 or 10 wins without much difficulty. I believe the Brett of old could have led this team to 10 wins, with their schedule and defense this year.

"the Packers could have ended with 9 or 10 wins without much difficulty." If you watched the Packers every game and every play this year you would understand how ignorant that comment is.

I'll re-iterate: The Packers were within one touchdown in EVERY game, but one in the Fourth Quarter this year. Look at the games individually, and tell me which 7 they were out of, and couldn't have won? In fact give me three games that you felt they were out of it in the fourth quarter?

Now tell me how many of those games they were ahead in the 4th Quarter needing only one defensive stop to win the game... hmmm lef that 'fact' out, didn't you?Look, Brett had a terrible year. He's still a better QB than most. Give him a line, a consistent running game, and at least two real WRs, and he'd play much better. (As would most QBs) The 'facts' you site in your first post don't illuminate many other 'facts' like the defense NEVER getting a crucial stop, INTs that hit the WR in the hands and were popped in the air, ect.

Be a hater if you want, but don't get defensive when people call you on your hating...

 

[Fla\/\/ed]

Are you telling me that J.Walker makes B.Favre?  I thought it was B.Favre who made J.Walker?

Which one is more likely to happen

If J.Walker goes to Houston, does D.Carr throw for 20 TDs?

If B.Favre goes to Houston does A.Johnson get 8+ TDs?

Take away Walker from Hall of Famer\Maddens fantasy guy and he crumbles? If this is true then maybe we should all re-think how good of a QB he is.

Lets face it Brett should have retired last year.  If he plays again next year he is just going to look even worse.

Again, another person with no clue as to what took place with the Packers this season.

There are a lot of people in this thread slinging opinions around based on stats and what they've read, and maybe by watching the odd game. If you watched every Packer game from opening kickoff to the end of the game, week in and week out, you know most of this is just nonsense.

I watched virtually every Packer game this year, and am not "slinging opinions." I have posted quite a few stats which are fact-based, not my opinion. The only opinion statements I have made are related to the notion that IF Favre had made fewer mistakes, the Packers could have had a much better record. Look closely at their close losses, and the mistakes that Brett made. Take those mistakes away, and IMHO (here is one of those "slinging opinions") the Packers could have ended with 9 or 10 wins without much difficulty. I believe the Brett of old could have led this team to 10 wins, with their schedule and defense this year.

"the Packers could have ended with 9 or 10 wins without much difficulty." If you watched the Packers every game and every play this year you would understand how ignorant that comment is.

I'll re-iterate: The Packers were within one touchdown in EVERY game, but one in the Fourth Quarter this year. Look at the games individually, and tell me which 7 they were out of, and couldn't have won? In fact give me three games that you felt they were out of it in the fourth quarter?

Now tell me how many of those games they were ahead in the 4th Quarter needing only one defensive stop to win the game... hmmm lef that 'fact' out, didn't you?Look, Brett had a terrible year. He's still a better QB than most. Give him a line, a consistent running game, and at least two real WRs, and he'd play much better. (As would most QBs) The 'facts' you site in your first post don't illuminate many other 'facts' like the defense NEVER getting a crucial stop, INTs that hit the WR in the hands and were popped in the air, ect.

Be a hater if you want, but don't get defensive when people call you on your hating...

 

[pigskinliquors]

Are you telling me that J.Walker makes B.Favre? I thought it was B.Favre who made J.Walker?

Which one is more likely to happen

If J.Walker goes to Houston, does D.Carr throw for 20 TDs?

If B.Favre goes to Houston does A.Johnson get 8+ TDs?

Take away Walker from Hall of Famer\Maddens fantasy guy and he crumbles? If this is true then maybe we should all re-think how good of a QB he is.

Lets face it Brett should have retired last year. If he plays again next year he is just going to look even worse.

Again, another person with no clue as to what took place with the Packers this season.

There are a lot of people in this thread slinging opinions around based on stats and what they've read, and maybe by watching the odd game. If you watched every Packer game from opening kickoff to the end of the game, week in and week out, you know most of this is just nonsense.

I watched virtually every Packer game this year, and am not "slinging opinions." I have posted quite a few stats which are fact-based, not my opinion. The only opinion statements I have made are related to the notion that IF Favre had made fewer mistakes, the Packers could have had a much better record. Look closely at their close losses, and the mistakes that Brett made. Take those mistakes away, and IMHO (here is one of those "slinging opinions") the Packers could have ended with 9 or 10 wins without much difficulty. I believe the Brett of old could have led this team to 10 wins, with their schedule and defense this year.

"the Packers could have ended with 9 or 10 wins without much difficulty." If you watched the Packers every game and every play this year you would understand how ignorant that comment is.

I'll re-iterate: The Packers were within one touchdown in EVERY game, but one in the Fourth Quarter this year. Look at the games individually, and tell me which 7 they were out of, and couldn't have won? In fact give me three games that you felt they were out of it in the fourth quarter?

Now tell me how many of those games they were ahead in the 4th Quarter needing only one defensive stop to win the game... hmmm lef that 'fact' out, didn't you?Look, Brett had a terrible year. He's still a better QB than most. Give him a line, a consistent running game, and at least two real WRs, and he'd play much better. (As would most QBs) The 'facts' you site in your first post don't illuminate many other 'facts' like the defense NEVER getting a crucial stop, INTs that hit the WR in the hands and were popped in the air, ect.

Be a hater if you want, but don't get defensive when people call you on your hating...

I'm not a hater. On the contrary, I'm a huge fan of Brett's. I'm still putting the ball in your court to tell me which three games the Packer's couldn't have pulled out if Brett were the Brett of old. As posted above, Brett had 13 INT's in the fourth quarter alone (44.8% of his INT's). The Packer's Defense was 7th best in yards given up per game. Looking at their Defense in the fourth quarter, it was stellar in every game, but two this year (MN and ATL). The Minnesota game = ABSOLUTELY the defense lost the game for them = giving up 13 points, and not getting the crucial stop on the final drive. The Atlanta game they gave up 11 points (FG and TD + 2), but the game was in hand for the final drive. The only other team to have more than 7 points against them in the fourth quarter was Chicago who scored 10.

BUT: the Packers were within 6 points with the ball, with 4 minutes on the clock, when Favre's pass to Driver was intercepted by Vasher, and returned for a TD.

= I'll give you that the Defense was to blame for the MN loss, but can't find another example.

Again, can you give me three games in which this "terrible" team was out of it in the fourth quarter? There are a lot of VERY good teams that I can do the same for.

Still waiting...

 

[Fla\/\/ed]

"With just conservative play from the QB it looks like the Pack could have virtually won EVERY game this year (except the Baltimore game)."

 

[Ghost Rider]

8 of the 12 GB losses were by 7 points or less. A 9th was a one-possession game (the first Bears game) until Favre threw an INT return for a TD late in the game. I would say they were darn competitive.

 

[Aaronstory]

The Packer's Defense was 7th best in yards given up per game. And they had the #1 pass defense. And yet we watched as Al Harris was burned game after game the last month of the season by such monster WRs as Derrick Mason, Justin Gage, and DJ Hackett.As Lombardi said, statistics are for losers. Watch the game. You say Brett's the reason they lost all those games. I say he was problematic, but had nothing around him. Ron Wolf equated thier offense to an NFL Europe squad. Yes, Brett threw INTs at the end of most of those losses. Why were they close to begin with? What was the protection like on each of those INTs? Did the WR run the correct route? Was there a miscomunication on an option route? (CLE loss) Was the DB tipped by an inexperienced WR giving away a route? (MIN loss) Learn the game of football before you start ripping one of the greatest to ever play the position.I await your citing of more insignificant stats and passing them off as knowledge.

 

[Fla\/\/ed]

8 of the 12 GB losses were by 7 points or less.  A 9th was a one-possession game (the first Bears game) until Favre threw an INT return for a TD late in the game. I would say they were darn competitive.

Anyone that watched the Packers this year knows they were not in some of those games. It is amusing watching you clowns try and blame the Packers season all on Favre. I suppose it was Favre's fault the defensive backs only intercepted 10 passes this year and dropped several others? Oh wait, if Favre was on defense, the Packers would have recovered more than 11 fumbles.

 

[Ghost Rider]

8 of the 12 GB losses were by 7 points or less. A 9th was a one-possession game (the first Bears game) until Favre threw an INT return for a TD late in the game. I would say they were darn competitive.

Anyone that watched the Packers this year knows they were not in some of those games. It is amusing watching you clowns try and blame the Packers season all on Favre. I suppose it was Favre's fault the defensive backs only intercepted 10 passes this year and dropped several others? Oh wait, if Favre was on defense, the Packers would have recovered more than 11 fumbles.

Where did I blame the Packers bad season solely on Favre? Please show me where. All I did was disagree with the comment that said the Packers were not competitive. The final scores of their games indicate otherwise.

 

[Wreckincrew]

John Madden told me Favre is overrated............but he still wants to have his baby.

 

[Fla\/\/ed]

8 of the 12 GB losses were by 7 points or less.  A 9th was a one-possession game (the first Bears game) until Favre threw an INT return for a TD late in the game. I would say they were darn competitive.

Anyone that watched the Packers this year knows they were not in some of those games. It is amusing watching you clowns try and blame the Packers season all on Favre. I suppose it was Favre's fault the defensive backs only intercepted 10 passes this year and dropped several others? Oh wait, if Favre was on defense, the Packers would have recovered more than 11 fumbles.

All I did was disagree with the comment that said the Packers were not competitive. The final scores of their games indicate otherwise.

Thanks for making my point. It is laughable to determine if a team was in a game only by the final score.

 

[Men-in-Cleats]

Are you telling me that J.Walker makes B.Favre?  I thought it was B.Favre who made J.Walker?

Which one is more likely to happen

If J.Walker goes to Houston, does D.Carr throw for 20 TDs?

If B.Favre goes to Houston does A.Johnson get 8+ TDs?

Take away Walker from Hall of Famer\Maddens fantasy guy and he crumbles? If this is true then maybe we should all re-think how good of a QB he is.

Lets face it Brett should have retired last year.  If he plays again next year he is just going to look even worse.

Again, another person with no clue as to what took place with the Packers this season.

There are a lot of people in this thread slinging opinions around based on stats and what they've read, and maybe by watching the odd game. If you watched every Packer game from opening kickoff to the end of the game, week in and week out, you know most of this is just nonsense.

I watched virtually every Packer game this year, and am not "slinging opinions." I have posted quite a few stats which are fact-based, not my opinion. The only opinion statements I have made are related to the notion that IF Favre had made fewer mistakes, the Packers could have had a much better record. Look closely at their close losses, and the mistakes that Brett made. Take those mistakes away, and IMHO (here is one of those "slinging opinions") the Packers could have ended with 9 or 10 wins without much difficulty. I believe the Brett of old could have led this team to 10 wins, with their schedule and defense this year.

"the Packers could have ended with 9 or 10 wins without much difficulty." If you watched the Packers every game and every play this year you would understand how ignorant that comment is.

I'll re-iterate: The Packers were within one touchdown in EVERY game, but one in the Fourth Quarter this year. Look at the games individually, and tell me which 7 they were out of, and couldn't have won? In fact give me three games that you felt they were out of it in the fourth quarter?

Go look at how many INTs Favre threw when the Packers were ahead or tied. Your premise is that Favre lost those games this year. The TEAM lost those games yet you want to blame Favre for all the losses. You have no idea what took place around him this year. Every NFL expert that follows the league has stated the exact opposite of what you believe in this thread. The Packers were a terrible TEAM this year decimated by injuries.

Favre threw a vast majority of his INT's when they were within one TD. You are very correct that the TEAM lost those games = no doubt. Yet, the team around him was very competitive. The Packers did have a lot of injuries = yes; but they were quite competitive.

BTW: Which three games were this "terrible team" out of this year?

How many of those games were they within one TD because of Brett Favre? They only had 12 rushing TD's on the entire season as a team and only a couple of defensive scores. How do you think they put points on the board to get within a TD in those games? 20 TD's with that team and with as much pressure as the defenses put on him is what helped keep them in games. In order to utilize a ball control attack that just plays the field position game and tries not to make mistakes you have to be able to control the line of scrimmage and move the chains. No RB on this team had more than 62 yards rushing until week 10. Of their rushing TD's, 2 of them came from the New Orlean's blowout, 6 of them came from Gado starting after week 9, and 2 of them came in the last two games from Noah Herron. How would a caretaker QB who just tried to minimize mistakes keep this team in games if the New Orlean's blowout took up two of the 4 rushing TD's the team accomplished in the first 8 weeks? They were in games because of Brett Favre and because of the defense, not just because of the defense. The TD fairy didn't leave a few scores for the team and tell Brett not to screw up so they can keep the lead. He and the defense put them in position to win games. Bad teams lose close games and they were a bad team after all of the injuries and due to the crappy play of the o-line. If they could have moved the ball consistently then he wouldn't have had to try to force passes to Driver or to other WR's.Yes, you've listed statistics but only bits and pieces of statistics that by themselves appear to support your argument. You can point to all of the key plays down the stretch of each week and point the finger but you can't ignore every play that happened on the way to that critical point in time and say you've done a thorough analysis. You are picking and choosing what you want from the stats. You wouldn't be a politician by any chance, would you?

 

[Ghost Rider]

Thanks for making my point. It is laughable to determine if a team was in a game only by the final score.

Okay then, let's determine which losses the Packers were not actually in.Week 1: Lost 3-17 at Detroit. This game they were not in in the 4th quarter.

Week 2: lost 24-26 to Cleveland. This game they were in until the end. A long Cleveland touchdown with less than two minutes to go gave them a 9-point lead. A last second Packers TD made the final what it was, but they were in this game until almost the very end.

Week 3: lost 16-17 to Tampa Bay. They were in this game to the bitter end, no doubt about it.

Week 4: lost 29-32 at Carolina. They turned what was becoming a blowout into a close game in the 4th quarter, but came up short. They got back into it in the 4th quarter and had a chance at the end, so they were in this game.

Week 7: lost 20-23 at Minnesota. Games against the Vikings almost always go down to the wire and this was no different. Were winning most of the game and blew it at the end.

Week 8: lost 14-21 to Cincinnati. Favre had the ball in his hand at the end with a chance to tie. In it all of the way.

Week 9: lost 10-20 to Pittsburgh. I do not remember this game well, but it being a 10-point loss, I will concede this one.

Week 11: lost 17-20 to Minnesota. Had control of the game until a Favre INT tied it up before halftime. Good battle in the second half resulted in another close loss to Minnesota.

Week 12: lost 14-19 at Philly. Had the lead for a good part of the game, but eventually lost it. In it until the end, once again.

Week 13: lost 7-19 at Chicago. This game is probably the one Favre is most responsible for losing. A terrible INT before halftime caused a 7-10 point swing and his late INT returned for a TD sealed the Bears' win. Still, they were in this most of the way.

Week 15: lost 3-48 at Baltimore. Were never in this one.

Week 16: lost 17-24. A nice little comeback fell short, but again, Favre had the ball in his hands with a chance to tie at the end of the game, so you have to say they were in it until the end.

So, by my estimation, they were competitive and in it until the very end in 9 of their 12 losses.

 

[pigskinliquors]

The Packer's Defense was 7th best in yards given up per game.

And they had the #1 pass defense. And yet we watched as Al Harris was burned game after game the last month of the season by such monster WRs as Derrick Mason, Justin Gage, and DJ Hackett.

As Lombardi said, statistics are for losers. Watch the game. You say Brett's the reason they lost all those games. I say he was problematic, but had nothing around him. Ron Wolf equated thier offense to an NFL Europe squad.

Yes, Brett threw INTs at the end of most of those losses. Why were they close to begin with? What was the protection like on each of those INTs? Did the WR run the correct route? Was there a miscomunication on an option route? (CLE loss) Was the DB tipped by an inexperienced WR giving away a route? (MIN loss) Learn the game of football before you start ripping one of the greatest to ever play the position.

I await your citing of more insignificant stats and passing them off as knowledge.

I await you, or anybody to show three games that they were out of in the fourth quarter? How can this team (not including Favre) be as bad (terrible seems to be the word used most in this thread) as people say and still be IN (within 1 TD in the 4th quarter) 15 Games? I, nor anyone else, is blaming the losses solely on Favre. What we are saying is that if you look at the games, game by game, Favre had multiple chances to win games for his team, and did not deliver. Thirteen INT's in the fourth quarter; 29 total INT's = some blame must be put on Brett (IMHO).

 

[Challenge Everything]

Week 1: Lost 3-17 at Detroit. This game they were not in in the 4th quarter. pure loss

Week 2: lost 24-26 to Cleveland. This game they were in until the end. A long Cleveland touchdown with less than two minutes to go gave them a 9-point lead. A last second Packers TD made the final what it was, but they were in this game until almost the very end.defense

Week 3: lost 16-17 to Tampa Bay. They were in this game to the bitter end, no doubt about it. defense

Week 4: lost 29-32 at Carolina. They turned what was becoming a blowout into a close game in the 4th quarter, but came up short. They got back into it in the 4th quarter and had a chance at the end, so they were in this game.thanks to Brett they were in this game. Brett did not lost this game

Week 7: lost 20-23 at Minnesota. Games against the Vikings almost always go down to the wire and this was no different. Were winning most of the game and blew it at the end. defense

Week 8: lost 14-21 to Cincinnati. Favre had the ball in his hand at the end with a chance to tie. In it all of the way.again, they were in this one because of Brett at the end. Bretts 5 did not help... Favre

Week 9: lost 10-20 to Pittsburgh. I do not remember this game well, but it being a 10-point loss, I will concede this one.

Week 11: lost 17-20 to Minnesota. Had control of the game until a Favre INT tied it up before halftime. Good battle in the second half resulted in another close loss to Minnesota.a half time INT is to blame for a loss. no blame anywhere here

Week 12: lost 14-19 at Philly. Had the lead for a good part of the game, but eventually lost it. In it until the end, once again.defense maybe

Week 13: lost 7-19 at Chicago. This game is probably the one Favre is most responsible for losing. A terrible INT before halftime caused a 7-10 point swing and his late INT returned for a TD sealed the Bears' win. Still, they were in this most of the way.again, a half time INT = a loss? come on.

Week 15: lost 3-48 at Baltimore. Were never in this one.

Week 16: lost 17-24. A nice little comeback fell short, but again, Favre had the ball in his hands with a chance to tie at the end of the game, so you have to say they were in it until the end. defense

So by my estimation Favre had a couple losses that could be attributed to him while the defense only giving Brett a "change to tie" by no means puts the loss on Brett. This is becoming close to the stupidest thread of the year.

 

[Aaronstory]

The Packer's Defense was 7th best in yards given up per game.

And they had the #1 pass defense. And yet we watched as Al Harris was burned game after game the last month of the season by such monster WRs as Derrick Mason, Justin Gage, and DJ Hackett.

As Lombardi said, statistics are for losers. Watch the game. You say Brett's the reason they lost all those games. I say he was problematic, but had nothing around him. Ron Wolf equated thier offense to an NFL Europe squad.

Yes, Brett threw INTs at the end of most of those losses. Why were they close to begin with? What was the protection like on each of those INTs? Did the WR run the correct route? Was there a miscomunication on an option route? (CLE loss) Was the DB tipped by an inexperienced WR giving away a route? (MIN loss) Learn the game of football before you start ripping one of the greatest to ever play the position.

I await your citing of more insignificant stats and passing them off as knowledge.

I await you, or anybody to show three games that they were out of in the fourth quarter? How can this team (not including Favre) be as bad (terrible seems to be the word used most in this thread) as people say and still be IN (within 1 TD in the 4th quarter) 15 Games? I, nor anyone else, is blaming the losses solely on Favre. What we are saying is that if you look at the games, game by game, Favre had multiple chances to win games for his team, and did not deliver. Thirteen INT's in the fourth quarter; 29 total INT's = some blame must be put on Brett (IMHO).

What in the world are you talking about? YES, they were in every game. Yes they lost most of them. But saying 'Favre did not deliver' is just plain ignorance. WHO WAS HE SUPPOSED TO DELIVER TO? Driver was double and triple covered, Ferguson was either hurt or wimping out against DBs half his size, Franks was hurt, Martin was hurt or horrible, Lee dropped three sure TDs, Thurman, when not fumbling, was running God awful routes, Chatman, all 3 feet of him God bless him, was running routes designed for WRs twice his size (smash, dig,crossing) Oh wait, he could swing it out to Ahman Green...oh wait, well Davenport was...hmm right, well Fisher is a good....hurt as well? Huh. Samkon Gado! The third stringer from Liberty! A clutch 4th quarter performer for sure! What's that? HE'S hurt too? Damn. Well, there's this kid, Noah Herron. Got him from the practice squad. No, not OUR pratice squad, silly, from Pittsburg. You know, the one that runs the same offense the Pack does. Huh? They don't? Not even close? Shoot.I could go on, but you are obviously too young or too brainwashed by ESPN to comprehend what the hell happened in GB this year....

 

[pigskinliquors]

Week 1: Lost 3-17 at Detroit. This game they were not in in the 4th quarter. pure loss

Week 2: lost 24-26 to Cleveland. This game they were in until the end. A long Cleveland touchdown with less than two minutes to go gave them a 9-point lead. A last second Packers TD made the final what it was, but they were in this game until almost the very end.defense

Week 3: lost 16-17 to Tampa Bay. They were in this game to the bitter end, no doubt about it. defense

Week 4: lost 29-32 at Carolina. They turned what was becoming a blowout into a close game in the 4th quarter, but came up short. They got back into it in the 4th quarter and had a chance at the end, so they were in this game.thanks to Brett they were in this game. Brett did not lost this game

Week 7: lost 20-23 at Minnesota. Games against the Vikings almost always go down to the wire and this was no different. Were winning most of the game and blew it at the end. defense

Week 8: lost 14-21 to Cincinnati. Favre had the ball in his hand at the end with a chance to tie. In it all of the way.again, they were in this one because of Brett at the end. Bretts 5 did not help... Favre

Week 9: lost 10-20 to Pittsburgh. I do not remember this game well, but it being a 10-point loss, I will concede this one.

Week 11: lost 17-20 to Minnesota. Had control of the game until a Favre INT tied it up before halftime. Good battle in the second half resulted in another close loss to Minnesota.a half time INT is to blame for a loss. no blame anywhere here

Week 12: lost 14-19 at Philly. Had the lead for a good part of the game, but eventually lost it. In it until the end, once again.defense maybe

Week 13: lost 7-19 at Chicago. This game is probably the one Favre is most responsible for losing. A terrible INT before halftime caused a 7-10 point swing and his late INT returned for a TD sealed the Bears' win. Still, they were in this most of the way.again, a half time INT = a loss? come on.

Week 15: lost 3-48 at Baltimore. Were never in this one.

Week 16: lost 17-24. A nice little comeback fell short, but again, Favre had the ball in his hands with a chance to tie at the end of the game, so you have to say they were in it until the end. defense

So by my estimation Favre had a couple losses that could be attributed to him while the defense only giving Brett a "change to tie" by no means puts the loss on Brett. This is becoming close to the stupidest thread of the year.

HOLY bad use of statistics Batman! Just saying defense does not make it so. Here's a better look:Week 1: They were NOT out of this in the 4th Quarter. Brett threw in INT with 7:00 left in the game when they were down by only seven points. The final 7 points shouldn't be pinned on the defense = they followed Brett's INT.

Week 2: NOT the defenses fault, NOT Favre's fault in the fourth quarter = probably his best quarter of the year. His 2 INT's didn't help the cause though as they led to 10 points for Cleveland.

Week 3: Defenses Fault???? They give up ZERO points in the second half and it's the defenses fault? Favre's 2 INT's in the fourth quarter can be blamed much more than the defense. Throwing a 2nd half shutout = the D's fault????

Week 4: Favre does play well again in the fourth quarter: BUT, he has a fumble and an INT in their own territory. The Fumble leads to a short 3 play TD drive for CAROLINA, while the INT leads to a short 2 play drive for a CAR TD. Take those Ten easy points away in a 3 point game = hmmmmmm.

Week 7: Fully agreed that the Defense blew this game in the fourth quarter (as I stated above).

Week 8: The Pack is in it because of Favre????? Brett threw five INT's in THE SECOND HALF in this game. How did Favre keep them in this game????

Week 9: Favre threw an INT which was returned for a TD and fumbled inside their own 20 leading to an easy FG = he gave PIT as many points as he put up.

Week 11: Brett has a TD returned for a TD, and throws another INT in the 4th quarter in what could have been a game winning drive. ?? no blame??

Week 12: How can this be the defense??? The defense did not give up a TD in the second half. Favre threw one INT in the Red Zone (actually in the end zone), and forces another in their final (potentially game winning drive). Defense???

Week 13: you do admit that this game is the one Favre's most responsible for. Favre threw an INT with less than :20 on the clock in the first half, which leads to a one play FG for the Bears to end the half. Also, with the score 7 to 12 in the fourth, Favre throws an INT which was returned for a Bears TD.

Week 15: Yes, you were never in this, as stated above.

Week 16: Defense?? The Pack D holds Chicago to under 300 yards, and shuts them out in the fourth quarter. As I stated above: Favre's #'s in his potentially last game against CHI = 30/51 317 yds, 0 TD's, 4 INT's. Favre actually had a fifth INT which was inside the red zone (10 yard line), but a pass interference call off the ball nullified it. His most costly INT (while all four were), was Briggs INT in the 3rd Quarter which was returned for a 10 yard TD.

= Again, Favre's turnovers greatly impacted the outcome of the game. IF he threw as many TD passes to his own team in this one, as he did to the opposite team, the outcome could very easily have been different. This team has had an entire year of close games, that could have been won with just a few less mistakes.

= As I keep saying; the Pack were IN 15 of 16 games this year! This TEAM was not "terrible".

 

[Fla\/\/ed]

Week 1:  Lost 3-17 at Detroit.  This game they were not in in the 4th quarter. pure loss

Week 2:  lost 24-26 to Cleveland.  This game they were in until the end.  A long Cleveland touchdown with less than two minutes to go gave them a 9-point lead.  A last second Packers TD made the final what it was, but they were in this game until almost the very end.defense

Week 3:  lost 16-17 to Tampa Bay.  They were in this game to the bitter end, no doubt about it. defense

Week 4:  lost 29-32 at Carolina.  They turned what was becoming a blowout into a close game in the 4th quarter, but came up short.  They got back into it in the 4th quarter and had a chance at the end, so they were in this game.thanks to Brett they were in this game.  Brett did not lost this game

Week 7:  lost 20-23 at Minnesota.  Games against the Vikings almost always go down to the wire and this was no different.  Were winning most of the game and blew it at the end.  defense

Week 8:  lost 14-21 to Cincinnati.  Favre had the ball in his hand at the end with a chance to tie.  In it all of the way.again, they were in this one because of Brett at the end.  Bretts 5 did not help... Favre

Week 9:  lost 10-20 to Pittsburgh.  I do not remember this game well, but it being a 10-point loss, I will concede this one.

Week 11:  lost 17-20 to Minnesota.  Had control of the game until a Favre INT tied it up before halftime.  Good battle in the second half resulted in another close loss to Minnesota.a half time INT is to blame for a loss.  no blame anywhere here

Week 12:  lost 14-19 at Philly.  Had the lead for a good part of the game, but eventually lost it.  In it until the end, once again.defense maybe

Week 13:  lost 7-19 at Chicago.  This game is probably the one Favre is most responsible for losing.  A terrible INT before halftime caused a 7-10 point swing and his late INT returned for a TD sealed the Bears' win.  Still, they were in this most of the way.again, a half time INT = a loss?  come on.

Week 15:  lost 3-48 at Baltimore.  Were never in this one.

Week 16:  lost 17-24.  A nice little comeback fell short, but again, Favre had the ball in his hands with a chance to tie at the end of the game, so you have to say they were in it until the end. defense

So by my estimation Favre had a couple losses that could be attributed to him while the defense only giving Brett a "change to tie" by no means puts the loss on Brett. This is becoming close to the stupidest thread of the year.

As I keep saying; the Pack were IN 15 of 16 games this year! This TEAM was not "terrible".

 

[Ghost Rider]

Fla\/\/ed, you can keep laughing all you want, but the facts are the facts and several of us have presented them. The Packers were not a terrible team this year. They were in almost every game they played this year and that is a FACT. How much Favre is to blame for their record is debatable, of course, but whether or not the Packers were a competitive team this year is not. They were a competitive team. They just came out on the short end of a lot of close games. Those are the facts and they are indisputable.

 

[pigskinliquors]

FlaVVed: Which three games would you say they were out of?

 

[Ghost Rider]

FlaVVed: Which three games would you say they were out of?

He doesn't have real arguments. His thing is to call anyone who dares say a bad word about Brett Favre a 'hater' and to laugh at valid arguments made as a way of covering up the fact that he has no legitimate responses.

 

[pigskinliquors]

FlaVVed: Which three games would you say they were out of?

He doesn't have real arguments. His thing is to call anyone who dares say a bad word about Brett Favre a 'hater' and to laugh at valid arguments made as a way of covering up the fact that he has no legitimate responses.