Broncos | Cutler could debut Week 8 (1 Viewer)

[SSOG]

The next two games will decide it.

I don't think there's any timetable on it. It might happen, it might not, and when and why is going to be anyone's guess. I just think there's room for several more straws on that old camel's back, yet.

As much as I agree that Plummer is stinking up the joint, there's no guarantee Cutler will do any better.

but so far there's no indication that he'd be worse.

A rookie qb could definitely do worse. Plummer has at least proven to be a decent game manager in the past. I'd give give him another week or two before calling for his head.

Should his head be called for even if they're 7-1?

I don't buy that "if it's working, don't mess with it" mentality. If Indy starts the season 0-2, and then Peyton gets hurt and Indy goes 5-0 over their next 5 games while Sorgi averages 70 yards passing and 2 Ints per game, should Peyton get his job back when he comes back?If a move makes your team better, then do it. If it doesn't, then don't. Your record shouldn't matter.And yes, I thought that Chicago was right in benching Orton. That guy was BRUTAL last year. Much worse than Plummer's been this year.

 

[Assani Fisher]

Denver ranks fifth worst in adjusted yards per pass attempt by QBs, ahead of...:drumroll:Cleveland, Oakland, Tennessee and Tampa Bay!Denver's QB Rating is 60.1, behind Cleveland and ahead of only those other three teams. Cutler can't do any worse, and the Broncos aren't very likely to win a Super Bowl with Plummer playing like this.

Last year they made it to the Championship game before losing to a red hot Steelers team that went on to win the SB. This year they are 5-1. How can you say that they can't win with Plummer playing like this? I think they can easily win the SB with him playing like this as long as he doesn't make too many mistakes and simply manages the game.

 

[Assani Fisher]

Jake Plummer has been one of the worst QBs in the league this year. I thought he shouldn't have been pulled after week two, and he saved himself with a great performance against the Pats.

But he's not turning this one around. At some point, you have to recognize that a guy has been really bad for six games, and you're not going to get worse play out of Cutler.

Plummer has now thrown as many INTs this year in six games as he did all of last year, and he's averaging a miserable 5.82 Y/A, and 4.20 adjusted Y/A.

But the Broncos are still winning. As crappy as Plummer is playing, I think it would be a mistake to bench him.

There's a correlation/causation problem going on here. Best as anyone can tell, Plummer's doing nothing to cause Denver to win this year, with the exception of the NE game.

So in their biggest and toughest game when they needed him the most he came up big, and when they havn't needed him hes sat back and just let his defense win for him. Whats the problem there?

 

[Assani Fisher]

Jake Plummer has been one of the worst QBs in the league this year. I thought he shouldn't have been pulled after week two, and he saved himself with a great performance against the Pats.

But he's not turning this one around. At some point, you have to recognize that a guy has been really bad for six games, and you're not going to get worse play out of Cutler.

Plummer has now thrown as many INTs this year in six games as he did all of last year, and he's averaging a miserable 5.82 Y/A, and 4.20 adjusted Y/A.

But the Broncos are still winning. As crappy as Plummer is playing, I think it would be a mistake to bench him.

they will bench him if/when they lose against the good teams that they need to beat. The Broncs are thinking super bowl not just making the playoffs.

Would you have benched Kyle Orton last year?

Thats easy to say now that we've seen how good Grossman truly is. At this point Cutler is a complete unknown and could end up being another Couch, Leaf, Smith, Shuler, etc. And even if he does turn out to be great, theres no guarantee that he doesn't play absolutely horrific in his first year.

 

[Assani Fisher]

SSOG made a good point about the locker room. Even if Cutler plays better than Plummer it may cause the rest of the team to play worse.

 

[SSOG]

...the Broncos aren't very likely to win a Super Bowl with Plummer playing like this.

9 of 21 for 123 and two interceptions. Can anyone tell me what that is?

 

[jonessed]

...the Broncos aren't very likely to win a Super Bowl with Plummer playing like this.

9 of 21 for 123 and two interceptions. Can anyone tell me what that is?

Jake Plummer on a good day.

 

[Banger]

...the Broncos aren't very likely to win a Super Bowl with Plummer playing like this.

9 of 21 for 123 and two interceptions. Can anyone tell me what that is?

Jake Plummer on a good day.

touche. but to your question Ben had some good games to get there. Are you confident that Plummer can play as well as Ben did last year? I'm not and I don't think Shanny is either. The Qb doesn't have to win every game but he has to win a few.

 

[SSOG]

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/nfl/...5089700,00.html

Shanahan: Cutler not playing

ENGLEWOOD - Broncos coach Mike Shanahan, who long has lived by the "no spot is guaranteed week to week" credo when dishing out playing time, won't definitively say when rookie quarterback Jay Cutler will play.

However, Shanahan did say Monday when Cutler won't play - Sunday against the Indianapolis Colts.

"When we do make a decision, we make a decision in the best interest of our organization," Shanahan said. "I will tell you this, that Jake Plummer will be our quarterback against Indy. Then I'll get a chance to be on this little program again (next week) and we'll talk about the same thing."

Shanahan again answered a national report Sunday morning that the Broncos' patience with Plummer was wearing thin and Cutler would enter the lineup as soon as Sunday's game against Cleveland, which the Broncos beat 17-7.

Cutler did not play against the Browns.

After the game, Shanahan said, "If we were going to play him, we would have played him."

"I didn't write the article," Shana- han said Monday. "I've said this from Day 1. . . . Things don't change from the first day. I don't have time to listen to all the rumors and all the speculation when we're trying to win some football games.

"You play your best players and you try to find a way to win. That's as factual as I can get. Just because something is in the newspaper or on a so-called channel does not mean I said it or someone within the organization said it."

Shanahan went on to point out that, despite offensive struggles that include a passing game ranked 30th in the league in yards per game, the team is 5-1 and in first place in the AFC West.

"I know it's the thing to talk about, the quarterback situation," Shanahan said. "It happens all the time. Any time you've got a guy who is a first-round draft choice. It happened with John Elway and Tommy Maddox; it was the same thing. It happens all the time.

"But we're winning football games, and why don't we support the quarterback who's winning those games?"

He added that while quarterback is the marquee position, Plummer was under the same scrutiny as any other player in the starting lineup and a change is made when he feels the backup will play better than the starter was.

"We're going to play the best football players; we've said that from Day 1," Shanahan said.

"That doesn't put any position to rest. It's not just the quarterback position; it's the center position, the wide receiver position, any position.

"It's not my job to share with you if I'm going to make a change at any position. I wouldn't tell you if it's the offensive guard, defensive tackle. I wouldn't say any position; that's just the nature of his job."

Edit: I think Mort is really starting to piss Shanahan off.

 

[SSOG]

Even more:

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_4539450

Pat Bowlen is the Broncos' owner. Mike Shanahan is the Broncos' coach. Jay Cutler has a strong arm.

Continuing on with the latest fascination of stories that contain zero news, Jake Plummer is the Broncos' quarterback.

Cutler, a highly touted rookie who has yet to take his first NFL snap, will not make his first start Sunday when the 5-1 Broncos meet the 6-0 Indianapolis Colts in a showdown of arguably the AFC's two best teams at Invesco Field at Mile High.

"It's not my job to share with you if I'm going to make a change at any position," Shana- han said at his news briefing Monday. "I'm not going to tell you if it was offensive guard, defensive tackle....I will tell you this - Jake Plummer will be our quarterback against Indy."

There has been a Cutler Watch since the Broncos moved up on draft day and snatched the Vanderbilt quarterback with the No. 11 pick.

The only question was the timing of a quarterback change. There was also no question the timing issue was completely dependent on Plummer's performance. And through six games, Plummer's performance has been shaky. He is ranked 32nd among NFL quarterbacks; his four touchdown passes against seven interceptions factor heavily in his 60.4 rating.

But the Broncos are 5-1 and hold the AFC West lead as they enter the meaty portion of their schedule - the Colts and a game at Pittsburgh are next.

An ESPN report, citing a team source, said Cutler could have played last Sunday against the Cleveland Browns. Anyone who has been around the Broncos the past 12 years knows Shanahan is the only person who makes such decisions. And Shanahan reserves the right to change his mind. See Mike Bell at running back.

Shanahan said Monday he did not talk to the ESPN reporter last week.

Against Cleveland, Plummer threw well with the wind, but his passes sailed when throwing against it. He played the entire game.

But the report hedged, stating that even if Cutler didn't play against Cleveland, he could if Plummer doesn't play well against Indianapolis and Pittsburgh.

It is true there is a chance Cutler could replace Plummer as the starting quarterback this year. But it apparently will be Plummer's play that makes that decision for Shanahan.

"I have to just go play," Plummer said after the Broncos' 17-7 victory Sunday in Cleveland.

"It's no different from the first day," Shanahan said. "I know it's a thing to talk about, the quarterback situation. It happens all the time....But we're winning football games, and why don't we support our quarterback who's winning those games?"

 

[Chase Stuart]

I was a big Plummer supporter last year, so any discussion of how good he was then isn't relevant. He was one of the reasons Denver made the AFCC game; he's not one of the reasons Denver is doing so well this year.

If Jason Elam was currently 7/16, would you guys advocate holding onto him or finding a new PK? And what if he went 3/3 against NE?

That's basically what Jake Plummer's done. Because he's a QB and not a kicker, people are more likely to give him credit for things he doesn't deserve, like a great running game and an exceptional defense. But he's been terrible. And if Jason Elam was 7/16, I don't care what the Broncos record was, he'd be hurting them, and Denver would be well advised to find a new kicker before he hurt them in the loss column.

 

[Cowboys#1]

while plummer clearly is not getting the job done, you cannot throw out ths 5-1 start and their run last season, he is not winning many games but he isnt losing them either.

cutler cannot come in and transform the offense into a juggernaut overnight, i think its best he stay on the bench until the broncos really tumble, or they clinch a playoff spot

 

[perry147]

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/nfl/...5089700,00.html

Shanahan: Cutler not playing

ENGLEWOOD - Broncos coach Mike Shanahan, who long has lived by the "no spot is guaranteed week to week" credo when dishing out playing time, won't definitively say when rookie quarterback Jay Cutler will play.

However, Shanahan did say Monday when Cutler won't play - Sunday against the Indianapolis Colts.

"When we do make a decision, we make a decision in the best interest of our organization," Shanahan said. "I will tell you this, that Jake Plummer will be our quarterback against Indy. Then I'll get a chance to be on this little program again (next week) and we'll talk about the same thing."

Shanahan again answered a national report Sunday morning that the Broncos' patience with Plummer was wearing thin and Cutler would enter the lineup as soon as Sunday's game against Cleveland, which the Broncos beat 17-7.

Cutler did not play against the Browns.

After the game, Shanahan said, "If we were going to play him, we would have played him."

"I didn't write the article," Shana- han said Monday. "I've said this from Day 1. . . . Things don't change from the first day. I don't have time to listen to all the rumors and all the speculation when we're trying to win some football games.

"You play your best players and you try to find a way to win. That's as factual as I can get. Just because something is in the newspaper or on a so-called channel does not mean I said it or someone within the organization said it."

Shanahan went on to point out that, despite offensive struggles that include a passing game ranked 30th in the league in yards per game, the team is 5-1 and in first place in the AFC West.

"I know it's the thing to talk about, the quarterback situation," Shanahan said. "It happens all the time. Any time you've got a guy who is a first-round draft choice. It happened with John Elway and Tommy Maddox; it was the same thing. It happens all the time.

"But we're winning football games, and why don't we support the quarterback who's winning those games?"

He added that while quarterback is the marquee position, Plummer was under the same scrutiny as any other player in the starting lineup and a change is made when he feels the backup will play better than the starter was.

"We're going to play the best football players; we've said that from Day 1," Shanahan said.

"That doesn't put any position to rest. It's not just the quarterback position; it's the center position, the wide receiver position, any position.

"It's not my job to share with you if I'm going to make a change at any position. I wouldn't tell you if it's the offensive guard, defensive tackle. I wouldn't say any position; that's just the nature of his job."

Edit: I think Mort is really starting to piss Shanahan off.

I beginning to think Mort just makes things up.The someone inside the Bronco's organization might be inside Mort's head.

 

[Chase Stuart]

while plummer clearly is not getting the job done, you cannot throw out ths 5-1 start and their run last season, he is not winning many games but he isnt losing them either.cutler cannot come in and transform the offense into a juggernaut overnight, i think its best he stay on the bench until the broncos really tumble, or they clinch a playoff spot

If you're the Broncos, you don't waste this season by waiting until you tumble. Plummer was great last year, that's why Denver won so many games.Denver has allowed 44 points this year. That's the single reason they are 5-1. I don't think anyone would argue that if Jay Cutler had started all six games, they would be at least 5-1. You don't think Cutler could have done everything Plummer has? Maybe he wouldn't have played well against New England, but he sure could have done better than Plummer did in the Rams loss.This isn't that difficult to figure out. A great running game, a terrible QB, great coaching and an exceptional defense will beat a lot of teams. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't replace the terrible QB with a bad or even average QB, just because you're winning a lot of games. It's obvious to me that Denver won't win anything of value if Plummer continues to play like this. The question for Shannahan is whether he thinks Plummer is more likely to turn it around and play well, or if Cutler can come in and play well. I think it's pretty risky to expect Plummer to turn it around, because I can't think of many cases where a veteran QB has played this badly and then turned things around. I'm willing to be proven wrong though, if anyone has some examples.Giving Cutler experience now would help him get ready for the playoffs.

 

[moleculo]

I'm sure I've been seeing things through orange glasses, but my impression thus far is that a number of ints have not been Jakes fault - things like balls bouncing off of guys hands into a recievers hands, etc.

That being said, he has made some really bad throws and should have had several more picks vs Cleveland; I'll blame that on the wind.

Frankly, as a Bronco fan, I'm more concerned that there has only been a handful of 20+ runs. Tatum is doing alright, but 6 games in, and he hasn't broken a long one yet?

What about the famous sucess on the opening drive? Denver has been inept offensively all over.

Something stinks in the Denver O, and it isn't just Jake.

 

[Courtjester]

This has to be one big on Chase's part either that or he has Cutler on his dynasty team.

As I have posted in other threads, there isn't going to be a switch coming anytime in the near future unless the Broncos are out of playoff contention and/or Jake gets hurt.

The Broncos are #1 in their division and they are winning games, plain and simple. You don't get a special win bonus for beating someone 33-3 versus 9-6. A win is a win is a win.

Does he look rough? Yeah. Is he missing throws? Yeah. Is he managing the game enough to win? YES!!

I think alot of you are so statistically driven that you miss the big picture. It doesn't matter if he is in the bottom in QB % in this category or that. It doesn't matter if he leads the league in INT's. All that matters is wins.

Now this weekend is a huge test. The Broncos are going to need more than 17 to win (understatement of the year I am sure) and it will be interesting to see how this all plays out. I will throw one caveat out though, should the Broncos stumble this weekend and the Broncos fall down 20-24 points with Jake having a few INT's, i could see Shanny putting Cutler in just for the fourth quarter to light a fire under Jake, but that is it.

Jake will start again the next week.

I have lived in Colorado all my life (37 years). I was raised on the Broncos and probably haven't missed a game since I was a kid. Yeah, it is frustrating to see this offense, with all its weapons, struggle, but at the

end of the day, you can throw out all the different numbers and stats you want, but the bottom line is they are winning.

 

[#@%&$!?]

As much as I agree that Plummer is stinking up the joint, there's no guarantee Cutler will do any better.

but so far there's no indication that he'd be worse.

A rookie qb could definitely do worse. Plummer has at least proven to be a decent game manager in the past. I'd give give him another week or two before calling for his head.

Should his head be called for even if they're 7-1?

If Denver keeps winning despite Plummers struggles, then I'd stick with him and hope he turns it around. If he starts costing them games, then give more thought to putting Cutler in.

 

[#@%&$!?]

I'm sure I've been seeing things through orange glasses, but my impression thus far is that a number of ints have not been Jakes fault - things like balls bouncing off of guys hands into a recievers hands, etc.

That being said, he has made some really bad throws and should have had several more picks vs Cleveland; I'll blame that on the wind.

Frankly, as a Bronco fan, I'm more concerned that there has only been a handful of 20+ runs. Tatum is doing alright, but 6 games in, and he hasn't broken a long one yet?

What about the famous sucess on the opening drive? Denver has been inept offensively all over.

Something stinks in the Denver O, and it isn't just Jake.

Maybe people should be calling for Dennison's or Heimerdinger's head instead?

 

[Chase Stuart]

This has to be one big on Chase's part either that or he has Cutler on his dynasty team.As I have posted in other threads, there isn't going to be a switch coming anytime in the near future unless the Broncos are out of playoff contention and/or Jake gets hurt.The Broncos are #1 in their division and they are winning games, plain and simple. You don't get a special win bonus for beating someone 33-3 versus 9-6. A win is a win is a win.Does he look rough? Yeah. Is he missing throws? Yeah. Is he managing the game enough to win? YES!!I think alot of you are so statistically driven that you miss the big picture. It doesn't matter if he is in the bottom in QB % in this category or that. It doesn't matter if he leads the league in INT's. All that matters is wins. Now this weekend is a huge test. The Broncos are going to need more than 17 to win (understatement of the year I am sure) and it will be interesting to see how this all plays out. I will throw one caveat out though, should the Broncos stumble this weekend and the Broncos fall down 20-24 points with Jake having a few INT's, i could see Shanny putting Cutler in just for the fourth quarter to light a fire under Jake, but that is it.Jake will start again the next week.I have lived in Colorado all my life (37 years). I was raised on the Broncos and probably haven't missed a game since I was a kid. Yeah, it is frustrating to see this offense, with all its weapons, struggle, but at the end of the day, you can throw out all the different numbers and stats you want, but the bottom line is they are winning.

Just one question. If Jason Elam was 7-16 and the Broncos were 5-1, would you want the Broncos to stick with Elam or try a new kicker? Note: If Elam misses a kick to cost the Broncos the AFC Championship, you waited too long.

 

[SSOG]

I was a big Plummer supporter last year, so any discussion of how good he was then isn't relevant. He was one of the reasons Denver made the AFCC game; he's not one of the reasons Denver is doing so well this year.

If Jason Elam was currently 7/16, would you guys advocate holding onto him or finding a new PK? And what if he went 3/3 against NE?

That's basically what Jake Plummer's done. Because he's a QB and not a kicker, people are more likely to give him credit for things he doesn't deserve, like a great running game and an exceptional defense. But he's been terrible. And if Jason Elam was 7/16, I don't care what the Broncos record was, he'd be hurting them, and Denver would be well advised to find a new kicker before he hurt them in the loss column.

Bad example. Elam *DID* have a pretty brutal season, and Denver stuck with him, took away his kickoff duties, brought in a dual punt-kickoff specialist, and have been very well rewarded ever since.

while plummer clearly is not getting the job done, you cannot throw out ths 5-1 start and their run last season, he is not winning many games but he isnt losing them either.

cutler cannot come in and transform the offense into a juggernaut overnight, i think its best he stay on the bench until the broncos really tumble, or they clinch a playoff spot

Sure Plummer's been losing games. Week 1 vs. St. Louis was one example (although the entire offense did their best to give that one away). There are also games he COULD HAVE lost, too, including this week vs. Cleveland. The only thing that could have gotten them back in it was turnovers, and Plummer was bound and determined to turn it over in the 4th quarter.

I'm sure I've been seeing things through orange glasses, but my impression thus far is that a number of ints have not been Jakes fault - things like balls bouncing off of guys hands into a recievers hands, etc.

Very true, too. Plummer had a lot of luck in his low-pick season last year, and he's having a lot of bad luck this year. These things tend to even out.

I'm sure I've been seeing things through orange glasses, but my impression thus far is that a number of ints have not been Jakes fault - things like balls bouncing off of guys hands into a recievers hands, etc.

That being said, he has made some really bad throws and should have had several more picks vs Cleveland; I'll blame that on the wind.

Frankly, as a Bronco fan, I'm more concerned that there has only been a handful of 20+ runs. Tatum is doing alright, but 6 games in, and he hasn't broken a long one yet?

What about the famous sucess on the opening drive? Denver has been inept offensively all over.

Something stinks in the Denver O, and it isn't just Jake.

Maybe people should be calling for Dennison's or Heimerdinger's head instead?

Way too early for that. You can't judge a coach after 6 games. Heck, look at Shanny's first 6 games as a head coach if you don't believe me.

 

[Tubalcane]

Die Plummer Die

 

[Tubalcane]

Seriously though, I think Shanahan will keep Plummer as starter the next two weeks. Let’s face it…the Colts and the Steelers are going to annihilate the Broncos. You have to factor in the loss of Lepsis in this prediction. Lepsis is a fast but smallish LT. He has nullified Dwight Freeney in the past, but not this weekend…he’s out. The Colts are a pass rush team and they will harass any QB the Broncos puts up against them. Then, the week after that, the Broncos have Joey Porter and the Steelers to deal with. Shanahan is not going to put in a rookie to deal with those two great teams.

If he puts Cutler in he will wait till they play a lesser team other than Pitt and Indy. In week 10 they play Oakland, and then they play San Diego (at home). Since the Chargers are so depleted on Def and their secondary sucks anyway, that would be a perfect 2 game stretch to start Cutler.

Plummer can’t score points and that’s the problem. If you saw the game against the Browns you saw the stats of Elway in his last 48 games and Plummer in his first 48. They had the same amount of INTs, but Elway had 83 TD’s compared to Plummer’s 63. Plummer has a weak inaccurate arm and he is the worst bad weather QB in the game. If the wind is blowing, or it is raining he sucks. Or more appropriately he sucks more than he normally does. If Plummer can’t score against the Browns and Raiders, then he needs to go. Shanahan will spend the next two weeks getting Cutler prepped and ready and then the Cutler era will start.

 

[SSOG]

Seriously though, I think Shanahan will keep Plummer as starter the next two weeks. Let’s face it…the Colts and the Steelers are going to annihilate the Broncos. You have to factor in the loss of Lepsis in this prediction.

Vegas has Denver favored by 2.5 against Indy, and if Denver's favored against Indy, I can only imagine they'll be favored against Pittsburgh, too.

 

[Tubalcane]

Seriously though, I think Shanahan will keep Plummer as starter the next two weeks. Let’s face it…the Colts and the Steelers are going to annihilate the Broncos. You have to factor in the loss of Lepsis in this prediction.

Vegas has Denver favored by 2.5 against Indy, and if Denver's favored against Indy, I can only imagine they'll be favored against Pittsburgh, too.

Being a Denver fan i hope you're are right. But there's a small part of me that wants Plummer to die...sorry about that, there's a small part of me that wants Plummer to die...sorry I did it again...there's a small part of me that wants Plummer to suck so Shanahan will give him the boot. Every INT Plummer throws is one small step toward the Cutler era. Die Plummer die...oops it seems my true feelings keep trying to come out.

I just don't think Plummer has it in him to beat the Colts or the Steelers

 

[Franknbeans]

Cutler that meat

 

[Marc Levin]

As much as I agree that Plummer is stinking up the joint, there's no guarantee Cutler will do any better.

but so far there's no indication that he'd be worse.

A rookie qb could definitely do worse. Plummer has at least proven to be a decent game manager in the past. I'd give give him another week or two before calling for his head.

Witness: Tony Romo.Is Shannie willing to accept that kind of a performance while his team is clearly Super Bowl ready at every other position?I think he sticks with Plummer b/c the growing pains of Cutler could scuttle their Super Bowl hopes.Look at Rivers - talk about a guy ready to step in after a bit of clipboard holding. '06 = Plummer's last year in Denver? yes. Cutler ready to lead them to the Bowl? nope.

 

[Hellfire Snail]

I was a big Plummer supporter last year, so any discussion of how good he was then isn't relevant. He was one of the reasons Denver made the AFCC game; he's not one of the reasons Denver is doing so well this year.If Jason Elam was currently 7/16, would you guys advocate holding onto him or finding a new PK? And what if he went 3/3 against NE?That's basically what Jake Plummer's done. Because he's a QB and not a kicker, people are more likely to give him credit for things he doesn't deserve, like a great running game and an exceptional defense. But he's been terrible. And if Jason Elam was 7/16, I don't care what the Broncos record was, he'd be hurting them, and Denver would be well advised to find a new kicker before he hurt them in the loss column.

Bad example. Elam *DID* have a pretty brutal season, and Denver stuck with him, took away his kickoff duties, brought in a dual punt-kickoff specialist, and have been very well rewarded ever since.

Curious to see the Chase response to this. I think it's a terrible example. A kicker is on his own to make or miss a kick (he needs a good place-kicker, that's it). A quarterback needs good playcalling, good protection, good receiving, and is also affected by what a defense does or doesn't do. That is being reliant on a lot of factors. Jake has been robbed of a few touchdowns this year...that's just a fact. I've seen a few Denver games and it doesn't seem like any of his weapons are getting open with the exception of Walker. To heave ALL the blame on the quarterback is the easiest, and usually one of the most misleading ways to diagnosis a struggling offense. No matter how good Cutler is, the kid would be throwing some picks. He's a rookie. There is no way he'll be able to read defenses as well as Jake yet. Cutler could hit some bombs and hit 300 yards and look fantastic, but with two or three picks is he really helping a team with a lock-down defense?

 

[Chase Stuart]

I was a big Plummer supporter last year, so any discussion of how good he was then isn't relevant. He was one of the reasons Denver made the AFCC game; he's not one of the reasons Denver is doing so well this year.If Jason Elam was currently 7/16, would you guys advocate holding onto him or finding a new PK? And what if he went 3/3 against NE?That's basically what Jake Plummer's done. Because he's a QB and not a kicker, people are more likely to give him credit for things he doesn't deserve, like a great running game and an exceptional defense. But he's been terrible. And if Jason Elam was 7/16, I don't care what the Broncos record was, he'd be hurting them, and Denver would be well advised to find a new kicker before he hurt them in the loss column.

Bad example. Elam *DID* have a pretty brutal season, and Denver stuck with him, took away his kickoff duties, brought in a dual punt-kickoff specialist, and have been very well rewarded ever since.

Curious to see the Chase response to this. I think it's a terrible example. A kicker is on his own to make or miss a kick (he needs a good place-kicker, that's it). A quarterback needs good playcalling, good protection, good receiving, and is also affected by what a defense does or doesn't do. That is being reliant on a lot of factors. Jake has been robbed of a few touchdowns this year...that's just a fact. I've seen a few Denver games and it doesn't seem like any of his weapons are getting open with the exception of Walker. To heave ALL the blame on the quarterback is the easiest, and usually one of the most misleading ways to diagnosis a struggling offense. No matter how good Cutler is, the kid would be throwing some picks. He's a rookie. There is no way he'll be able to read defenses as well as Jake yet. Cutler could hit some bombs and hit 300 yards and look fantastic, but with two or three picks is he really helping a team with a lock-down defense?

I don't think Cutler would be throwing worse than Plummer. Plummer has been horrible. That's all I'm saying. The comparison to the kicker was for those who think the Broncos are doing well so should continue doing what they're doing.Sometimes putting in a new QB will give a team a spark.

 

[thesurfshop19]

Sometimes putting in a new QB will give a team a spark.

That's certainly true. I think the point, though, is that sometimes team success could give the existing QB a spark, too. Plummer's historical success may no longer trump his unbelievable slump to start this season, but at 5-1 you'd have to be incredibly sure before making a switch.I really feel like this Indy game will work everything out. I honestly don't see a way that Plummer plays poorly and the Broncos win, which would be the only case where we wouldn't know for sure what to do.

 

[The Ref]

Three truths to the AFC.

1. Denver Owns New England

2. New England Owns Indi.

3. Ind Owns Denver

See the chart above to see who is going to win the game.

 

[Courtjester]

I was a big Plummer supporter last year, so any discussion of how good he was then isn't relevant. He was one of the reasons Denver made the AFCC game; he's not one of the reasons Denver is doing so well this year.If Jason Elam was currently 7/16, would you guys advocate holding onto him or finding a new PK? And what if he went 3/3 against NE?That's basically what Jake Plummer's done. Because he's a QB and not a kicker, people are more likely to give him credit for things he doesn't deserve, like a great running game and an exceptional defense. But he's been terrible. And if Jason Elam was 7/16, I don't care what the Broncos record was, he'd be hurting them, and Denver would be well advised to find a new kicker before he hurt them in the loss column.

Bad example. Elam *DID* have a pretty brutal season, and Denver stuck with him, took away his kickoff duties, brought in a dual punt-kickoff specialist, and have been very well rewarded ever since.

Curious to see the Chase response to this. I think it's a terrible example. A kicker is on his own to make or miss a kick (he needs a good place-kicker, that's it). A quarterback needs good playcalling, good protection, good receiving, and is also affected by what a defense does or doesn't do. That is being reliant on a lot of factors. Jake has been robbed of a few touchdowns this year...that's just a fact. I've seen a few Denver games and it doesn't seem like any of his weapons are getting open with the exception of Walker. To heave ALL the blame on the quarterback is the easiest, and usually one of the most misleading ways to diagnosis a struggling offense. No matter how good Cutler is, the kid would be throwing some picks. He's a rookie. There is no way he'll be able to read defenses as well as Jake yet. Cutler could hit some bombs and hit 300 yards and look fantastic, but with two or three picks is he really helping a team with a lock-down defense?

I don't think Cutler would be throwing worse than Plummer. Plummer has been horrible. That's all I'm saying. The comparison to the kicker was for those who think the Broncos are doing well so should continue doing what they're doing.Sometimes putting in a new QB will give a team a spark.

Perhaps true, but not a Rookie who has never taken a NFL regular season snap.

 

[thatguy]

Three truths to the AFC.1. Denver Owns New England2. New England Owns Indi.3. Ind Owns DenverSee the chart above to see who is going to win the game.

Denver is 2-2 in their last 4 matchups Vs. Indy, dating back to 2003 (2-0 in regular season play).

 

[SSOG]

Three truths to the AFC.1. Denver Owns New England2. New England Owns Indi.3. Ind Owns DenverSee the chart above to see who is going to win the game.

Denver is 2-2 in their last 4 matchups Vs. Indy, dating back to 2003 (2-0 in regular season play).

Beat me to it.

 

[ren hoek]

As much as I agree that Plummer is stinking up the joint, there's no guarantee Cutler will do any better.

but so far there's no indication that he'd be worse.

A rookie qb could definitely do worse. Plummer has at least proven to be a decent game manager in the past. I'd give give him another week or two before calling for his head.

He's got a 60 passer rating. He's got 4 tds and 7 picks. He's been HORRIBLE. In real NFL terms (and obviously fantasy) I'd take the "rookie" Rivers over Plummer in a split second right now.

yes, you think Rivers is better than Plummer. we get it.i don't think that Rivers is remotely comparable to a rookie either..

 

[Tubalcane]

I was a big Plummer supporter last year, so any discussion of how good he was then isn't relevant. He was one of the reasons Denver made the AFCC game; he's not one of the reasons Denver is doing so well this year.If Jason Elam was currently 7/16, would you guys advocate holding onto him or finding a new PK? And what if he went 3/3 against NE?That's basically what Jake Plummer's done. Because he's a QB and not a kicker, people are more likely to give him credit for things he doesn't deserve, like a great running game and an exceptional defense. But he's been terrible. And if Jason Elam was 7/16, I don't care what the Broncos record was, he'd be hurting them, and Denver would be well advised to find a new kicker before he hurt them in the loss column.

Bad example. Elam *DID* have a pretty brutal season, and Denver stuck with him, took away his kickoff duties, brought in a dual punt-kickoff specialist, and have been very well rewarded ever since.

Curious to see the Chase response to this. I think it's a terrible example. A kicker is on his own to make or miss a kick (he needs a good place-kicker, that's it). A quarterback needs good playcalling, good protection, good receiving, and is also affected by what a defense does or doesn't do. That is being reliant on a lot of factors. Jake has been robbed of a few touchdowns this year...that's just a fact. I've seen a few Denver games and it doesn't seem like any of his weapons are getting open with the exception of Walker. To heave ALL the blame on the quarterback is the easiest, and usually one of the most misleading ways to diagnosis a struggling offense. No matter how good Cutler is, the kid would be throwing some picks. He's a rookie. There is no way he'll be able to read defenses as well as Jake yet. Cutler could hit some bombs and hit 300 yards and look fantastic, but with two or three picks is he really helping a team with a lock-down defense?

I don't think Cutler would be throwing worse than Plummer. Plummer has been horrible. That's all I'm saying. The comparison to the kicker was for those who think the Broncos are doing well so should continue doing what they're doing.Sometimes putting in a new QB will give a team a spark.

Perhaps true, but not a Rookie who has never taken a NFL regular season snap.

Here's an interesting stat for you. No Rookie QB has ever started in the Superbowl. That's why Plummer will remain the starter for now

 

[Bizkiteer]

I'd say where they needed Plummer to win some games for them in the past few years, they no longer need that. They just need him to play within the system, let the defense contain the other team and they feel they will prevail. They are winning and even if it ugly in the view for some, they must know that it can only get better and not worse. They are more conservative in paly calling because that is all they need to this point. I'd say, PLummer is in there until they start losing several games and are out of the playoff run. Rookies have a lot of pressure to deal with that most coaches think is difficult within itself, so why put Cutler in to deal with playing and "oh btw we are making a run for the super bowl." Seems a bit much...Cutler will be the QB next year and PLummer will be elsewhere.

 

[Tubalcane]

As a Broncos fan I am legally obligated to say: Die Plummer die

 

[brednbuddah]

everything I need to know about Plummer this year, I found in Wheelhouse's wk7 tidbits. why not start Cutler?

Time for a change at QB in Denver? You tell me - Denver, as a team has a 60.4 QB rating and they are only slightly better than Atlanta in total passing yards 984 vs. 908. DEN and ATL are the only teams in the NFL with less than 1000 yards passing. Oh yeah, Denver has 4 passing TD's which is tied with Oakland and Tennessee.

 

[moleculo]

As a Broncos fan I am legally obligated to say: Die Plummer die

is there an echo in here?

 

[Tubalcane]

Die Plummer die

 

[Assani Fisher]

Jake Plummer has been one of the worst QBs in the league this year. I thought he shouldn't have been pulled after week two, and he saved himself with a great performance against the Pats.

But he's not turning this one around. At some point, you have to recognize that a guy has been really bad for six games, and you're not going to get worse play out of Cutler.

Plummer has now thrown as many INTs this year in six games as he did all of last year, and he's averaging a miserable 5.82 Y/A, and 4.20 adjusted Y/A.

But the Broncos are still winning. As crappy as Plummer is playing, I think it would be a mistake to bench him.

There's a correlation/causation problem going on here. Best as anyone can tell, Plummer's doing nothing to cause Denver to win this year, with the exception of the NE game.

So in their biggest and toughest game when they needed him the most he came up big, and when they havn't needed him hes sat back and just let his defense win for him. Whats the problem there?

While they lost, Jake led that offense to 31 points today. So far this year except for one game in week 1, whenever Denver has needed points to win Jake has led them to a decent showing.

 

[SSOG]

That was a PHENOMINAL game by Plummer, far better than the statistics look. He was facing constant pressure, and again and again Plummer was a magician. He didn't attempt a lot of passes, but when he did attempt a pass he was phenominal, and the only thing that could stop him was untimely pressure or a mistake by his receivers.

I have to say that today was the best day I've seen from Jake Plummer possibly in years. I'd have to think really hard to come up with a day where he's looked better. It was as pleasant as it was unexpected.

 

[TheLaw]

That was a PHENOMINAL game by Plummer, far better than the statistics look. He was facing constant pressure, and again and again Plummer was a magician. He didn't attempt a lot of passes, but when he did attempt a pass he was phenominal, and the only thing that could stop him was untimely pressure or a mistake by his receivers.I have to say that today was the best day I've seen from Jake Plummer possibly in years. I'd have to think really hard to come up with a day where he's looked better. It was as pleasant as it was unexpected.

what happened on the fumble? bad protection, held ball too long, or just #### happens?

 

[Courtjester]

That was a PHENOMINAL game by Plummer, far better than the statistics look. He was facing constant pressure, and again and again Plummer was a magician. He didn't attempt a lot of passes, but when he did attempt a pass he was phenominal, and the only thing that could stop him was untimely pressure or a mistake by his receivers.I have to say that today was the best day I've seen from Jake Plummer possibly in years. I'd have to think really hard to come up with a day where he's looked better. It was as pleasant as it was unexpected.

what happened on the fumble? bad protection, held ball too long, or just #### happens?

He was sacked and was going down. Before he could hit the ground, he landed on another defensive player and the ball came out.I played it back and it sure sounded like the play was blown dead, but regardless of that, I have seen "in the grasp" calls for half of what was going on there.It was a tough call, but the defense should have held them on drives later in the game, so you can't point to that call as one that cost them the game.

 

[drdgreenlove]

Mort is an idiot.... if he makes that prediction every week eventualy he will be right,

 

[Assani Fisher]

That was a PHENOMINAL game by Plummer, far better than the statistics look. He was facing constant pressure, and again and again Plummer was a magician. He didn't attempt a lot of passes, but when he did attempt a pass he was phenominal, and the only thing that could stop him was untimely pressure or a mistake by his receivers.I have to say that today was the best day I've seen from Jake Plummer possibly in years. I'd have to think really hard to come up with a day where he's looked better. It was as pleasant as it was unexpected.

So would you agree that this year Jake has sat back and just let the defense win when they can but has come out and played well when his team actually needs points?

 

[SSOG]

That was a PHENOMINAL game by Plummer, far better than the statistics look. He was facing constant pressure, and again and again Plummer was a magician. He didn't attempt a lot of passes, but when he did attempt a pass he was phenominal, and the only thing that could stop him was untimely pressure or a mistake by his receivers.I have to say that today was the best day I've seen from Jake Plummer possibly in years. I'd have to think really hard to come up with a day where he's looked better. It was as pleasant as it was unexpected.

what happened on the fumble? bad protection, held ball too long, or just #### happens?

Combination of bad protection and bad luck. He had two Colts defenders in his face before he ever had a chance to get set (that's the bad protection), and when the first defender brought him down, he landed on the second rather than the ground, which meant while normally he would have been down by contact when the ball came out, this time he was still slightly off the ground (that was the bad luck). I didn't think there was much else he could have done there.

That was a PHENOMINAL game by Plummer, far better than the statistics look. He was facing constant pressure, and again and again Plummer was a magician. He didn't attempt a lot of passes, but when he did attempt a pass he was phenominal, and the only thing that could stop him was untimely pressure or a mistake by his receivers.I have to say that today was the best day I've seen from Jake Plummer possibly in years. I'd have to think really hard to come up with a day where he's looked better. It was as pleasant as it was unexpected.

So would you agree that this year Jake has sat back and just let the defense win when they can but has come out and played well when his team actually needs points?

I absolutely DO NOT agree with that. Jake Plummer has *SUCKED* out there so far this season. I mean, outright SUCKED. Against New England he played alright, but not great, and the rest of the time he's just been wasting oxygen in the huddle. I doubt any player ever says, for any reason, "Well, I'm not really needed so I suppose I won't really try. Heck, who cares if I suck, this game's a gimme, anyway". I think it's possible for a player to underestimate a team, or not put as much effort into one game as another, but no way a player just flat out doesn't try, doesn't give his best while he's out there. If he did, he'd be run off the team (Rod Smith has a history of calling those players out in the media- Deltha O'Neil, anyone?).Besides, even if he WASN'T trying at the beginning of the season, you know he knows the score, he knows what the media is saying. He knows that his job was at risk. After the speculation started that he might not be Denver's QB for much longer, you'd think he'd start trying his best, no matter who he was playing against.No, the first 6 weeks of the season Plummer was trying, but still sucked. The 7th week of the season, Plummer was on fire. It remains to be seen whether that was a fluke or whether it heralds a turnaround, but it doesn't herald that Plummer just cares more about Indy or New England.