wadegarrett
FFA Legend™
Fallerjw said:Tecumseh said:
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BROWNS THREAD 2009 4 GAME WIN STREAK! (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter amnesiac
- Start date
Fallerjw
Footballguy
Out of contention for Suh and Berry, probably. Who do you target at #5?so the Browns are picking 5th as of right now, right?
Happy Ragnarok
Footballguy
As a COMPLETELY unbiased third party, I have to disagree. I think Mr. Cribbs would be far happier returning kicks in, say, the NFC Central.Or Pittsburgh.Fallerjw said:Tecumseh said:
amnesiac
beer is good
not sure, but i know it's someone who's starting to approach reasonable money for a guy who's hasn't done a damn thing in the NFL yet.and if they get a couple more wins, so much the better.Out of contention for Suh and Berry, probably. Who do you target at #5?so the Browns are picking 5th as of right now, right?
Fallerjw
Footballguy
I'm in the same camp right now. Beat Oakland, and pull one out against Jacksonville, and that ends the season with 4 straight wins. Something I thought was not even remotely possible. It has to give them a better shot at landing some decent free agents. They also end up in a range of reasonable salaries for the first round pick, like you said.not sure, but i know it's someone who's starting to approach reasonable money for a guy who's hasn't done a damn thing in the NFL yet.and if they get a couple more wins, so much the better.Out of contention for Suh and Berry, probably. Who do you target at #5?so the Browns are picking 5th as of right now, right?
....everything I've heard or read seems to point to it.
Bobcat10
Footballguy
Wouldn't both me at all. Looks like there should be 2-3 OTs worthy of top 10 selections.Mays and Tate will be good later 1st rounders.
You guys want no part of Taylor Mays, he's the king of taking bad angles.
He's the on-field director of the defense this team sorely needs.
The Man With No Name
Footballguy
Since they have 11 draft picks (I think) they can wheel and deal on draft day. Move back in the 1st if their guy will be there later, move up in other rounds to get a particular guy. Whatever players they have targeted, if there are any (without moving up in the 1st or giving up their 2011 1st) they should be able to get. Accumulate some future draft picks like the Pats do or just draft 10+ players. All kinds of options.
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GreatLakesMike
Footballguy
I agree. I'm glad that Holmgren is on board early so he can hire his GM and scouting department. I kind of hope they keep Mangini on board for the time being. It appears that the team is improving, and that most of the guys left are buying into what Mangini is selling. I also like watching the Browns have success running the ball. It's been a while since we've seen that, and if they can shore up that right side of the offensive line via the draft, and maybe draft a future replacement for Steinbach, then this team should be able to have a lot of success running the ball for quite some time.
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amnesiac
beer is good
i think this will be their primary focus right now.some people might be expecting an evaluation on the coach right away, but that shouldn't happen for a while.
Fallerjw
Footballguy
I have a couple of questions about the Browns:
1. How many times has a team started the season 1-11, then won their last 4?
2. What will they do with Jerome Harrison? For some reason coaches have been reluctant to let him be the main ball carrier, but all he's ever done is produce when given the chance. Do they keep him around? Do they give him a shot as the RB1 next season?
3. Who are some candidates for the GM position? I would assume they have some people in mind, but has anybody heard any rumors?
4. Do they keep Mangini around for a 2nd season?
5. Now that their running game seems to be coming around (I know it's against the Chiefs and Raiders), do they take a serious look at bringing in a new QB next year, or did BQ do enough to "earn" the job?
1. How many times has a team started the season 1-11, then won their last 4?
2. What will they do with Jerome Harrison? For some reason coaches have been reluctant to let him be the main ball carrier, but all he's ever done is produce when given the chance. Do they keep him around? Do they give him a shot as the RB1 next season?
3. Who are some candidates for the GM position? I would assume they have some people in mind, but has anybody heard any rumors?
4. Do they keep Mangini around for a 2nd season?
5. Now that their running game seems to be coming around (I know it's against the Chiefs and Raiders), do they take a serious look at bringing in a new QB next year, or did BQ do enough to "earn" the job?
amnesiac
beer is good
1. i dunno.
2. i know it's a cliche, but i'd still like to see Harrison paired up with a "Thunder" to compliment his "Lightening"
3. haven't heard much.
4. i feel right now Mangini has shown enough to keep him one more year. however, if Holmgren is going to plan on firing him the first time he loses a few games next year, they might as well do it now.
5. i think Quinn's future will be determined by Holmgren. if he gives him his stamp of approval, he will be allowed time to grow. having some recievers that aren't rookies will help too.
2. i know it's a cliche, but i'd still like to see Harrison paired up with a "Thunder" to compliment his "Lightening"
3. haven't heard much.
4. i feel right now Mangini has shown enough to keep him one more year. however, if Holmgren is going to plan on firing him the first time he loses a few games next year, they might as well do it now.
5. i think Quinn's future will be determined by Holmgren. if he gives him his stamp of approval, he will be allowed time to grow. having some recievers that aren't rookies will help too.
Bobcat10
Footballguy
I'll tryI have a couple of questions about the Browns:
1. How many times has a team started the season 1-11, then won their last 4?
2. What will they do with Jerome Harrison? For some reason coaches have been reluctant to let him be the main ball carrier, but all he's ever done is produce when given the chance. Do they keep him around? Do they give him a shot as the RB1 next season? I don't think he's under contract past this season. Does anyone have contract status for all teams in the league? I can't find a good link. I'd try to resign him as Jamal is gone and who knows what we have in James Davis. That still leaves a spot open for a free agent or early draft pick. Then again, we do have the labor agreement issue to deal with and how that impacts free agents.
3. Who are some candidates for the GM position? I would assume they have some people in mind, but has anybody heard any rumors? I've heard the most buzz about Will Lewis (Sea director of player personnel) and Reggie McKenzie (GB co-director of football operations) from Reghi and various newspaper/internet reports. Then also John Schneider (other GB co-director of football operations) and Lake Dawson (Ten director of pro personnel). Basically, somebody that Holmgren has ties to would be a safe bet.
4. Do they keep Mangini around for a 2nd season? My guess is he will be booted...unless Holmgren has his eyes set on Gruden for the 2011 season. Sure would be tough to fire a guy if they win 4 straight to end the year though.
5. Now that their running game seems to be coming around (I know it's against the Chiefs and Raiders), do they take a serious look at bringing in a new QB next year, or did BQ do enough to "earn" the job? I'm still firmly against drafting a QB early in the draft.
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MAC_32
Footballguy
1. 
2. the CBA will not be signed, so Harrison will be ours for one more season. I think we should offer him a 3 yr deal that's easy to get out of after 2 if he's not performing, if he declines let him walk at 28.5 yrs old after 2010, for better or worse. Regardless I hope our RB's entering camp are Harrison-Davis-round 5+ draft pick-Chris Jennings/free agent, it's not a position to concern ourselves with until 2011, there are too many other holes to fill. The only way I'll retract my opinion is if a top RB falls further than he should and we can get him in round 2 or 3.
3.
4. He'll be back, between a lockout possibility in 2011 and Mangini showing progress in December he's earned it. The only way he gets booted is if Holmgren has his eyes dead set on a guy or two and they say they'll take the job.
5. DA will be cut, we'll need a 3rd QB, and I haven't heard anything about that guy (Bartel?) since Mangini came to town, so we'll add a 3rd QB and I hope it's through the draft...I also hope, like RB, unless a steal falls to round 3 I don't want one until round 5 or later. Quinn deserves another year, unlike Mangini, possibly more.
2. the CBA will not be signed, so Harrison will be ours for one more season. I think we should offer him a 3 yr deal that's easy to get out of after 2 if he's not performing, if he declines let him walk at 28.5 yrs old after 2010, for better or worse. Regardless I hope our RB's entering camp are Harrison-Davis-round 5+ draft pick-Chris Jennings/free agent, it's not a position to concern ourselves with until 2011, there are too many other holes to fill. The only way I'll retract my opinion is if a top RB falls further than he should and we can get him in round 2 or 3.
3.
4. He'll be back, between a lockout possibility in 2011 and Mangini showing progress in December he's earned it. The only way he gets booted is if Holmgren has his eyes dead set on a guy or two and they say they'll take the job.
5. DA will be cut, we'll need a 3rd QB, and I haven't heard anything about that guy (Bartel?) since Mangini came to town, so we'll add a 3rd QB and I hope it's through the draft...I also hope, like RB, unless a steal falls to round 3 I don't want one until round 5 or later. Quinn deserves another year, unlike Mangini, possibly more.
Bobcat10
Footballguy
So Mangini's earned it or not in your book? Tough to say for me. I respect that he's hung in there and players have not quit on him...at least the players that are playing. Some are essentially playing for their careers though. I'm just not sure wins against Pitt/KC/Oak make up for all the ineptness earlier. It's definitely not fair to give a new coach only one season, but if he's not what Holmgren wants I don't want Holmgren to wait and waste another year.After listening to Holmgren at the presser today I didn't get much of an indication on his direction with Mangini. Just when you thought Mangini was a lame duck by Holmgren's words he quickly shifted to the other side, and vice versa. I think much of the decision will come down to Mangini and what he wants. Does he want to answer to two people? He essentially was given the keys Holmgren now has a year ago and he brought in a GM he figured he could easily control.1.
2. the CBA will not be signed, so Harrison will be ours for one more season. I think we should offer him a 3 yr deal that's easy to get out of after 2 if he's not performing, if he declines let him walk at 28.5 yrs old after 2010, for better or worse. Regardless I hope our RB's entering camp are Harrison-Davis-round 5+ draft pick-Chris Jennings/free agent, it's not a position to concern ourselves with until 2011, there are too many other holes to fill. The only way I'll retract my opinion is if a top RB falls further than he should and we can get him in round 2 or 3.
3.
4. He'll be back, between a lockout possibility in 2011 and Mangini showing progress in December he's earned it. The only way he gets booted is if Holmgren has his eyes dead set on a guy or two and they say they'll take the job.
5. DA will be cut, we'll need a 3rd QB, and I haven't heard anything about that guy (Bartel?) since Mangini came to town, so we'll add a 3rd QB and I hope it's through the draft...I also hope, like RB, unless a steal falls to round 3 I don't want one until round 5 or later. Quinn deserves another year, unlike Mangini, possibly more.
MAC_32
Footballguy
I think he looked at this team preseason and said to himself I can't win with these guys and this ship needs blown up, which was given Lerner's seal of approval. I don't think Mangini expected it to be as bad as it was midseason, but I do think he thought it would be more bad than good, but that this was best for the long term success of the franchise. He doesn't have his guys, this team has some of the worst talent in the league...but it's being built. Some of the talent problems are on Mangini, but more of them can be put on the prior regime. Mangini did pretty well in New York acquiring talent, getting his guys, I want to see what he does with them next year.That said, I'm with you in that if Holmgren wants to go in another direction I want him to do it now and not drag his feet for a year playing wait and see. If he doesn't believe in Mangini then he's got to go, the front office needs to be on the same page and that's something that hasn't been the case for a very, very long time unfortunately.So Mangini's earned it or not in your book? Tough to say for me. I respect that he's hung in there and players have not quit on him...at least the players that are playing. Some are essentially playing for their careers though. I'm just not sure wins against Pitt/KC/Oak make up for all the ineptness earlier. It's definitely not fair to give a new coach only one season, but if he's not what Holmgren wants I don't want Holmgren to wait and waste another year.After listening to Holmgren at the presser today I didn't get much of an indication on his direction with Mangini. Just when you thought Mangini was a lame duck by Holmgren's words he quickly shifted to the other side, and vice versa. I think much of the decision will come down to Mangini and what he wants. Does he want to answer to two people? He essentially was given the keys Holmgren now has a year ago and he brought in a GM he figured he could easily control.1.
2. the CBA will not be signed, so Harrison will be ours for one more season. I think we should offer him a 3 yr deal that's easy to get out of after 2 if he's not performing, if he declines let him walk at 28.5 yrs old after 2010, for better or worse. Regardless I hope our RB's entering camp are Harrison-Davis-round 5+ draft pick-Chris Jennings/free agent, it's not a position to concern ourselves with until 2011, there are too many other holes to fill. The only way I'll retract my opinion is if a top RB falls further than he should and we can get him in round 2 or 3.
3.
4. He'll be back, between a lockout possibility in 2011 and Mangini showing progress in December he's earned it. The only way he gets booted is if Holmgren has his eyes dead set on a guy or two and they say they'll take the job.
5. DA will be cut, we'll need a 3rd QB, and I haven't heard anything about that guy (Bartel?) since Mangini came to town, so we'll add a 3rd QB and I hope it's through the draft...I also hope, like RB, unless a steal falls to round 3 I don't want one until round 5 or later. Quinn deserves another year, unlike Mangini, possibly more.
Fallerjw
Footballguy
I think at minimum they need to take a long, hard look at the coaches on the offensive side of the ball. Specifically the QB & WR coaches, as well as the offensive coordinator. They are dead last in passing yards per game, and it's not even close. The next closest team averages 20 more yards per game. They have the fewest 1st downs passing in the league.I think he looked at this team preseason and said to himself I can't win with these guys and this ship needs blown up, which was given Lerner's seal of approval. I don't think Mangini expected it to be as bad as it was midseason, but I do think he thought it would be more bad than good, but that this was best for the long term success of the franchise. He doesn't have his guys, this team has some of the worst talent in the league...but it's being built. Some of the talent problems are on Mangini, but more of them can be put on the prior regime. Mangini did pretty well in New York acquiring talent, getting his guys, I want to see what he does with them next year.That said, I'm with you in that if Holmgren wants to go in another direction I want him to do it now and not drag his feet for a year playing wait and see. If he doesn't believe in Mangini then he's got to go, the front office needs to be on the same page and that's something that hasn't been the case for a very, very long time unfortunately.So Mangini's earned it or not in your book? Tough to say for me. I respect that he's hung in there and players have not quit on him...at least the players that are playing. Some are essentially playing for their careers though. I'm just not sure wins against Pitt/KC/Oak make up for all the ineptness earlier. It's definitely not fair to give a new coach only one season, but if he's not what Holmgren wants I don't want Holmgren to wait and waste another year.After listening to Holmgren at the presser today I didn't get much of an indication on his direction with Mangini. Just when you thought Mangini was a lame duck by Holmgren's words he quickly shifted to the other side, and vice versa. I think much of the decision will come down to Mangini and what he wants. Does he want to answer to two people? He essentially was given the keys Holmgren now has a year ago and he brought in a GM he figured he could easily control.1.
2. the CBA will not be signed, so Harrison will be ours for one more season. I think we should offer him a 3 yr deal that's easy to get out of after 2 if he's not performing, if he declines let him walk at 28.5 yrs old after 2010, for better or worse. Regardless I hope our RB's entering camp are Harrison-Davis-round 5+ draft pick-Chris Jennings/free agent, it's not a position to concern ourselves with until 2011, there are too many other holes to fill. The only way I'll retract my opinion is if a top RB falls further than he should and we can get him in round 2 or 3.
3.
4. He'll be back, between a lockout possibility in 2011 and Mangini showing progress in December he's earned it. The only way he gets booted is if Holmgren has his eyes dead set on a guy or two and they say they'll take the job.
5. DA will be cut, we'll need a 3rd QB, and I haven't heard anything about that guy (Bartel?) since Mangini came to town, so we'll add a 3rd QB and I hope it's through the draft...I also hope, like RB, unless a steal falls to round 3 I don't want one until round 5 or later. Quinn deserves another year, unlike Mangini, possibly more.
They have the lowest completion % in the league.
They have the least amount of total passing yards.
They have the lowest AVG per attempt.
Their team QB rating is .3 away from the worst in the league.
However, only 10 teams in the league gave up fewer sacks.
They have the 10th most rushing yards.
They are 13th in yards per carry.
This is after Jamal Lewis had ZERO carries of 20 or more yards in 143 carries. The only player in the league with over 100 carries without a carry of 20+ yards. Lewis got a first down on 12.6% of his carries. The lowest in the league for anybody with 115 or more carries.
They have some potential on this team, but the passing game has to improve dramatically for them to be competitive. They need a legitimate #1 WR and a RT. If they can get those 2 things in place, and work on timing I think they can be alright. That's just for the offense. Obviously they need to accumulate as much talent as possible on the defense as well. I think this can be a competitive team in 2010 if they can put a few more pieces in place.
GreatLakesMike
Footballguy
I think one point that hasn't been mentioned enough is that the Browns are OLD. I'm more worried about the GM, Scouting Department, etc. than Mangini at this point. With having 11 picks, a successful 2010 draft could go a long way towards building a foundation. Mangini is not going anywhere for the time being, so Holmgren can worry about him later. And let's face it, coaches are important, but not near as important as young talent.
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Tecumseh
Footballguy
Tell that to Tim Couch and David Carr. Chris Palmer killed them both.
PizzaDeliveryGuy
extra sausage
kaa
Footballguy
Terry Pluto is just about unreadable. I always come away from a Pluto column feeling like he'd much rather being covering Hollywood socialites. Its so much gossip and opinion mixed with some weak analysis. Ok, so he thinks the 2007 team was the anomaly. But he defends that view by reciting the records over the past 6 years? I could do that. A 9 year old could do that. He's paid for this dreck?
"Losing has stuck to this franchise like a wad of bubble gum to the bottom of a shoe". Great info, there.
"Losing has stuck to this franchise like a wad of bubble gum to the bottom of a shoe". Great info, there.
PizzaDeliveryGuy
extra sausage
kaa
Footballguy
The Browns have 11 draft picks, but its not like they've loaded up on first rounders. They've got an extra 3rd, which is ok, but 2 extra 5th and an extra 6th. 5th and 6th round picks are more like lotto tickets than anything else. You can't expect them to "go a long way towards building a foundation" with those picks.On average about three 5th round picks pan out every year from what I can tell:2006:5.07 49ers - DE Parys Haralson5.13 Ravens - S Dawan Landry5.26 Bears - DE Mark Anderson2007:5.05 Cardinals - WR Steve Breaston5.16 Giants - TE Kevin Boss5.25 Eagles - TE Brent Celek5.30 Bears - S Kevin Payne2008:5.14 Cardinals - RB Tim Hightower5.29 Saints - LG Carl Nicks2009:5.04 Bears - Johnny KnoxA majority of 5th round picks get waived without fanfare. Many others hang on as backups for a few years.On average about 1 of the 32 players selected in the 5th is a bona-fide pro bowl talent. Since the Texans joined the NFL in 2002, the only pro-bowlers in the 5th are DE Trent Cole (Eagles 5.10 in 2005)RB Michael Turner (Chargers 5.22 in 2004)DE Robert Mathis (Colts 5.03 in 2003)LS Ryan Pontbriand (Browns 5.07 in 2003)P Mike Scifres (Chargers 5.14 in 2003)C Dan Koppen (Patriots 5.28 in 2003)DE Aaron Kampman (Vikings 5.21 in 2002)There were no pro bowlers taken in the fifth since 2005.
kaa
Footballguy
LOL That's another good one. Gee, I think just everyone knew that Romeo Crennel was a player's coach and that Mangini was a disciplinarian. Way to go stating the obvious, Pluto.
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PizzaDeliveryGuy
extra sausage
Bobcat10
Footballguy
I would just suggest bgp not read Terry then. This was one of his shoot from the hip articles imo. He doesn't get very deep in them. He still has main messages built in there and they're not what is being blasted above. I will say Pluto dumbs down his stuff sometimes too much (like how many times does he has to define OPS when talking about it?), and even I get sick of him sometimes, but I can live with that as there are alot of people that need it in this area. Terry >>>>> Roger.
PizzaDeliveryGuy
extra sausage
Sounds like quite a few players are being vocal about keeping Mangini.
GreatLakesMike
Footballguy
Thanks for proving my point. You just mentioned two QB's that were abused because they had limited talent around them, especially on the offensive line.
PizzaDeliveryGuy
extra sausage
If Dallas and Washington hang on, the Browns would be tied for the longest winning streak to end the year.4 in a row baby!that was pretty cold out there today, but it was a fun game.
Tecumseh
Footballguy
You can scheme to compensate for those shortfalls. You can't scheme your way out of poor coaching.That being said, I do not consider Mangini to be a bad coach, and I definitely want him back next year.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Priority #1 - pay Cribbs
Priority #2 - offer Harrison a 'good' contract, by 'good' I mean good for both sides, one in which we can get out of before he turns 30
Priority #3 - bring back Mangini, Ryan, and Seely. The rest? Whatever Holmgren decides, except for Daboll, who must go.
Priority #4 - identify offseason needs, and they are big WR, play making LB, and a significant improvement on the right side of the o line. Get them. We have other holes (mostly on the defense), but those are the 3 biggest.
Quinn should start week 1 with a WR corps of Massaquoi, Robiskie, Stuckey, and to be determined 4th WR, Evan Moore and Robert Royal at TE, and an RB stable of Jerome Harrison, James Davis, Chris Jennings, and some guy drafted in day 2.
This may not win the division, but it would at least keep us in contention until December.
Priority #2 - offer Harrison a 'good' contract, by 'good' I mean good for both sides, one in which we can get out of before he turns 30
Priority #3 - bring back Mangini, Ryan, and Seely. The rest? Whatever Holmgren decides, except for Daboll, who must go.
Priority #4 - identify offseason needs, and they are big WR, play making LB, and a significant improvement on the right side of the o line. Get them. We have other holes (mostly on the defense), but those are the 3 biggest.
Quinn should start week 1 with a WR corps of Massaquoi, Robiskie, Stuckey, and to be determined 4th WR, Evan Moore and Robert Royal at TE, and an RB stable of Jerome Harrison, James Davis, Chris Jennings, and some guy drafted in day 2.
This may not win the division, but it would at least keep us in contention until December.
Fallerjw
Footballguy
Agree with your list for sure. I'd add a play making safety if possible. Cribbs and Harrison deserve to be paid. Daboll must go.
Reaper
Footballguy
I feel bad for Mangini - Given the circumstances, He might have just had the best season he could have had....
He got rid of the dead wood and instilled a winning attitude...
He drafts well and set himself up for this next year to be a big stepping stone with another good draft and some FA additions...
He just might be a better GM than Holmgren....
He got rid of the dead wood and instilled a winning attitude...
He drafts well and set himself up for this next year to be a big stepping stone with another good draft and some FA additions...
He just might be a better GM than Holmgren....
Bobcat10
Footballguy
Except that Holmgren is not the Browns GM. Holmgren will hire a GM in the coming weeks.
Fallerjw
Footballguy
I've really come around with regards to Mangini. I think you keep him.
Look at the Jets this year.
#1 rushing offense
#1 total defense
#1 defense in points given up
#1 defense in yards given up
This was the team Mangini put together. I think he's putting the pieces together for this in Cleveland right now, and I'd love to have a smash mouth team like that.
Look at the Jets this year.
#1 rushing offense
#1 total defense
#1 defense in points given up
#1 defense in yards given up
This was the team Mangini put together. I think he's putting the pieces together for this in Cleveland right now, and I'd love to have a smash mouth team like that.
duece2626
Footballguy
Beef Ravioli
Footballguy
Not sure if this guy has been metioned yet (did not read all 23 pages) but if Mangini is gone (torn over the matter) what do we think of Leslie Frazier? The little research I have done - I like what I have seen.
He was defensive coordinator of the Cincinnati Bengals from 2003-2004 where he helped turn the unit into a group that increased takeaways from 24 in 2003 to 36 in 2004. The Bengals' 36 takeaways in '04 ranked 3rd in the NFL. The 2004 Bengals notched 20 interceptions, the most since 1996. The Bengals Defense improved from #28 in total yards allowed in 2003 to #19 in 2004, and declined in the two years following his dismissal.
Plus this:
In 2005, Frazier was hired by Tony Dungy as a defensive assistant for the Indianapolis Colts, receiving the title of Special Assistant to the Head Coach as well as Defensive Backs Coach. He was specifically brought in by Dungy to help the Colts young corps of Defensive Backs. During his time in Indy the Colts passing defense improved from 15th in 2005 to 2nd in 2006. On February 4, 2007 the Colts beat Frazier's former team, the Chicago Bears, in Super Bowl XLI
I think it sounds pretty good myself! Anyone else have any info on the guy?
He was defensive coordinator of the Cincinnati Bengals from 2003-2004 where he helped turn the unit into a group that increased takeaways from 24 in 2003 to 36 in 2004. The Bengals' 36 takeaways in '04 ranked 3rd in the NFL. The 2004 Bengals notched 20 interceptions, the most since 1996. The Bengals Defense improved from #28 in total yards allowed in 2003 to #19 in 2004, and declined in the two years following his dismissal.
Plus this:
In 2005, Frazier was hired by Tony Dungy as a defensive assistant for the Indianapolis Colts, receiving the title of Special Assistant to the Head Coach as well as Defensive Backs Coach. He was specifically brought in by Dungy to help the Colts young corps of Defensive Backs. During his time in Indy the Colts passing defense improved from 15th in 2005 to 2nd in 2006. On February 4, 2007 the Colts beat Frazier's former team, the Chicago Bears, in Super Bowl XLI
I think it sounds pretty good myself! Anyone else have any info on the guy?
GreatLakesMike
Footballguy
I do agree that most 5th rounders don't amount to much, but you don't need pro-bowlers at every position in order to build a foundation. The information you listed is nice, but have you researched how many 5th rounders are on rosters? There's nothing wrong with having a decent back-up guard, or a quality nickel corner who can return punts. I also think it's still a bit early to decide that only one 5th round player has panned out from the 2009 class...... I could argue the same for the 2008 class, but at least those guys have played two years. I might be a bit excited and overstating the importance of this draft, but let's face it, we don't have much else to look forward to...... As far as the draft, I think the Browns will move a few of those picks come draft day. They can move up, down, trade for future picks/players, etc. The new GM will have some flexibility with this draft.
GreatLakesMike
Footballguy
I agree, and I'm on board. I hope he stays.
