BROWNS THREAD 2009 4 GAME WIN STREAK! (1 Viewer)

[Bobcat10]

So the Giants essentially think they can trade Shockey for Braylon? I'd tell them to call back when ready to talk seriously.

What do you think would be a fair offer for Edwards?

Braylon didn't exactly set the league on fire last year.

I agree 100%, but what did Shockey, a TE, do before they traded him? I just think the Browns have the edge in bargaining right now. As we move closer to the draft, it evens up more IF the Browns are truely interested in dealing Braylon with what is rostered now (not a heck of alot). If you want to compare Edwards/Shockey/Winslow...my opinion would be that Edwards has the most value and would warrant the most in return. I also don't think a 1st rounder is necessary...#45 is a great starting point.

Those two statements don't seem to go togetherThe 2nd round pick the Giants offered is #45 (the pick they got from the Saints) plus they offered the 5th rounder (not sure of the number)

Sorry.

 

[Bobcat10]

I just think the Browns have the edge in bargaining right now. As we move closer to the draft, it evens up more IF the Browns are truely interested in dealing Braylon with what is rostered now (not a heck of alot). If you want to compare Edwards/Shockey/Winslow...my opinion would be that Edwards has the most value and would warrant the most in return. I also don't think a 1st rounder is necessary...#45 is a great starting point.

Do you really believe this? Sometimes I think people think that draft picks are magic or something. You believe that Braylon Edwards' value is close to the value of the 45th best player from the NCAA in 2009?Let's assume that the Browns take a WR with the 45th pick. And let's assume for simplicity that reaching the Pro Bowl is a measure of WR success. In the last 10 years of the NFL draft, by my count only 11 WRs selected from rounds 2-7 have made the Pro Bowl. That's around 1 every year. I don't think that we have very good odds of picking a standout WR with pick #45.

Braylon isn't great, I'll be the first to admit that, but he's (with high probability) more valuable than what we can get in return. We can collect all the 2nd and 3rd round picks we want, but the harsh reality is that many if not most of these picks don't pan out. I don't know if it's worth throwing away our arguably most skilled offensive player, despite his problems.

I believe that and agree with much of what you say.I said "I don't think a 1st rounder is necessary"....assuming this isn't a one pick for Braylon deal.

If we're going the multiple pick route, then it is not necessary. After thinking about it some more, I'm sure a 2nd, 3rd, and Hixon/Manningham would be a fine deal. Maybe both their 2nd's, give them a 5th, and they can keep the WRs. I don't know. But a 5th from them as icing on the cake is pretty much worthless to me.

I'm also not sure I'd assume trading Braylon would be throwing him away. If he's not coming back (even with a fat deal), and told you that, I'm not sure why he'd bluff at this point. So it just depends on what the brass knows that we don't. It sucks since he was #3 overall, but at some point you gotta make a decision here.

 

[amnesiac]

Ok so what is the deal with Edwards anyway?I haven't paid too much attention to him but it looks like he only had one good year2005-32-512-3 (rookie season)2006-61-884-62007-80-1289-162008-55-873-3Everyone says he had the drops in 2008, does the same apply to 2006?

In 2006 he returned sooner than expected from a torn ACL that shortened his 2005 and had Charlie Frye as his QB.As for the drops, he's had those his entire career, college included.He has all the talent and potential in the world, but he's a head case.

he's afraid to get hit now as well. he played scared last year. i think he may never have another great year again.

 

[Yenrub]

Ok so what is the deal with Edwards anyway?I haven't paid too much attention to him but it looks like he only had one good year2005-32-512-3 (rookie season)2006-61-884-62007-80-1289-162008-55-873-3Everyone says he had the drops in 2008, does the same apply to 2006?

In 2006 he returned sooner than expected from a torn ACL that shortened his 2005 and had Charlie Frye as his QB.As for the drops, he's had those his entire career, college included.He has all the talent and potential in the world, but he's a head case.

Can’t hold the bad year with Charlie Frye as QB against himBut I have read some things about him on a few Browns sites (I have no idea how true they are)Doesn’t have a good work ethic Prima donna Wants out of Cleveland Cancer in the locker room Expects a big pay day after next season Any of the above true?

 

[MAC_32]

Ok so what is the deal with Edwards anyway?I haven't paid too much attention to him but it looks like he only had one good year2005-32-512-3 (rookie season)2006-61-884-62007-80-1289-162008-55-873-3Everyone says he had the drops in 2008, does the same apply to 2006?

In 2006 he returned sooner than expected from a torn ACL that shortened his 2005 and had Charlie Frye as his QB.As for the drops, he's had those his entire career, college included.He has all the talent and potential in the world, but he's a head case.

Can’t hold the bad year with Charlie Frye as QB against himBut I have read some things about him on a few Browns sites (I have no idea how true they are)Doesn’t have a good work ethic Prima donna Wants out of Cleveland Cancer in the locker room Expects a big pay day after next season Any of the above true?

Yes to all of the above, he also loses focus easily when he's not playing well. He'll run lazy routes, won't go full speed, doesn't go after the ball, etc. This led to the problems last year, get him going and you can have a season like 2007. Don't and you can have 2008 redux. I believe he can be an elite player if he wants to be, I just think that the risk of him actually wanting it is higher than its costs to find out.

 

[wadegarrett]

Terry Pluto's blog: Cleveland Browns should deal Braylon Edwards if they can

by Terry Pluto / Plain Dealer Columnist

Tuesday March 24, 2009, 3:54 PM

GOODYEAR, Ariz. -- If the Browns can trade Braylon Edwards to the New York Giants for second and fifth round picks, along with Domenik Hixon -- they should do it.

Here's why:

1. Let's start with the fact that Braylon Edwards will be a free agent at the end of the 2009 season. What are the odds of Mr. Michigan having any interest in re-signing with the Browns? He has been dubious about Cleveland from the day the Browns made him the third pick in the 2005 draft.

2. No need to get into all the drops -- an NFL-leading 16, according to Stats Inc. Or the fact that Edwards just seems to do some very silly stuff. Browns fans know the sad story: late for a team meeting because of attending an OSU/Michigan game; being spiked by Donte Stallworth during post-practice exercises because he had taken off his football shoes; saying the fans don't like him because he's from Michigan.

3. Adding another second-round pick would give the Browns the No. 5 choice in the first round, and three picks in the second round -- their own (No. 36), Tampa Bay's (No. 50 for Kellen Winslow) and the Saints (No. 45) by way of New York for Edwards. That is a way to add some serious young talent.

4. Those three choices in the second round allow the Browns: room to trade; to move down in the first round; to add a veteran player; and finally, to be very creative.

5. I wonder if the Giants really are willing to deal Hixon. He is a little like Joshua Cribbs, a tough special teams guy (University of Akron) who was not highly-regarded. Yes, he was picked in the third round, but Denver had little interest in keeping him. Hixon just worked his way into becoming a solid receiver.

6. Last season, Hixon had 43 catches, averaged 13.9 yards per catch. He ranked 18th in the NFL in terms of having 29 of his 43 catches (67 percent) become first downs. Add his value as a special teams player and a terrific team attitude -- he'd be comfortable in Cleveland.

7. It's nice that the Browns added Dave Patten, but he's 33 and battled injuries last season -- catching only 11 passes. They need a veteran receiver, and should look at Torry Holt. He will be 33 in June, but still caught 64 passes (12.4 yards per catch), good for three TDs. He's a classy veteran receiver who will help Edwards (if he stays) or a young receiver that they may draft.

8. The bottom line is that Edwards is a short-timer, and it is wise to trade him now rather than watch him walk away later.

 

[Apollo]

Mangini is going to blow this up!!

Link

 

[eric rymer]

Mangini is going to blow this up!!

Link

Pretty cool article about Mangini and his influence on the team over at the bleacher report. link

 

[MAC_32]

Mangini is going to blow this up!!

Link

Pretty cool article about Mangini and his influence on the team over at the bleacher report. link

Braylon's gone if this is the case.As long as we're fairly compensated I'm ok with it.

 

[The Man With No Name]

Mangini is going to blow this up!!

Link

Pretty cool article about Mangini and his influence on the team over at the bleacher report. link

Braylon's gone if this is the case.As long as we're fairly compensated I'm ok with it.

If they can get 2 draft picks for Edwards (I don't believe that rumor of a 2, a 5, and a player) they should make a deal and not look back. He will be gone after this season, and the Browns would at best get a 3rd round compensatory pick in 2011. It's not like they will be playoff contenders this season with him , so dealing him is the smart thing to do.

 

[Apollo]

Browns fans:

Any insight on the Quinn situation? I know what all the reports say, but would like any homer info on this one.

Which one is it?

A. Mangini does not envision Quinn as the Browns QB or prefers Anderson or someone else

B. Mangini is trying to motivate Quinn (seems unlikely, always thought Brady was a hard worker)

C. Mangini is trying to send a message to the team that no player is 'untouchable'

If they trade Quinn, do they draft a QB in the first round (either at pick 5 or after trading down)?

 

[nxmehta]

Browns fans:Any insight on the Quinn situation? I know what all the reports say, but would like any homer info on this one.Which one is it?A. Mangini does not envision Quinn as the Browns QB or prefers Anderson or someone elseB. Mangini is trying to motivate Quinn (seems unlikely, always thought Brady was a hard worker)C. Mangini is trying to send a message to the team that no player is 'untouchable'If they trade Quinn, do they draft a QB in the first round (either at pick 5 or after trading down)?

I don't think anyone really knows to be honest. I know that option C is true- he doesn't think anyone is untouchable (besides Joe Thomas). My best guess is that Mangini feels the same way about the QBs as most fans do- Quinn probably has more upside, but there's no clear winner. I would not be surprised at all if we keep both rostered and have them compete for the starting job- it's what Mangini has said his plan is.I bet even if they don't trade Quinn they will take a QB at some point. No way we take a QB in the first round though.

 

[nxmehta]

Sooo... looks like Quinn was almost traded. Also, Winslow said on satellite radio that he doesn't expect Edwards to play for the Browns in 2009. Thoughts on these developments?

 

[Bobcat10]

Glad to see we didn't cave in and give Winslow $20m guaranteed over 6 years. One of my favorite Browns of recent years, but I just don't have a good feeling about him being that productive, maybe not even in the league, in three years.

 

[Tecumseh]

Glad to see we didn't cave in and give Winslow $20m guaranteed over 6 years. One of my favorite Browns of recent years, but I just don't have a good feeling about him being that productive, maybe not even in the league, in three years.

Agreed. Pluto's column on the new contract is spot on.

 

[msommer]

What are the Browns doing at RB this year? Is there hope for Harrison or is Jamal going to lumber on?

 

[Bobcat10]

Glad to see we didn't cave in and give Winslow $20m guaranteed over 6 years. One of my favorite Browns of recent years, but I just don't have a good feeling about him being that productive, maybe not even in the league, in three years.

Agreed. Pluto's column on the new contract is spot on.

I'll have to go read that. Have not been reading much of the wrap lately except for Pluto a couple times a week.

 

[MAC_32]

What are the Browns doing at RB this year? Is there hope for Harrison or is Jamal going to lumber on?

J Lew = Thomas JonesHarrison = WashingtonI'm more concerned about what we're looking at post 2009, J Lew will be 31 and can be cut cheaply and Harrison will be a UFA. I'm hoping we draft a future backup like Andre or Aaron Brown or in the 4th.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Haven't seen anything or heard anything anywhere else, but on the local sports talk radio station here in Philly (ESPN950) there was talk yesterday afternoon that a deal was close to being done between the Browns and Giants for Edwards. The talk was a first and fifth for Edwards. Anyone hear anything like that?

 

[nxmehta]

Haven't seen anything or heard anything anywhere else, but on the local sports talk radio station here in Philly (ESPN950) there was talk yesterday afternoon that a deal was close to being done between the Browns and Giants for Edwards. The talk was a first and fifth for Edwards. Anyone hear anything like that?

Yes, this rumor has been making the rounds on Browns forums and blogs. Apparently the Browns are holding out for a 1st and 3rd, ala the Roy Williams trade (which I believe was for a 1st, 3rd, and 5th). We'll see if Braylon is able to command that.I think that would be adequate compensation for Braylon. We'd be able to take both Crabtree and an impact defender in the first round.

 

[Yenrub]

Haven't seen anything or heard anything anywhere else, but on the local sports talk radio station here in Philly (ESPN950) there was talk yesterday afternoon that a deal was close to being done between the Browns and Giants for Edwards. The talk was a first and fifth for Edwards. Anyone hear anything like that?

Yes, this rumor has been making the rounds on Browns forums and blogs. Apparently the Browns are holding out for a 1st and 3rd, ala the Roy Williams trade (which I believe was for a 1st, 3rd, and 5th). We'll see if Braylon is able to command that.I think that would be adequate compensation for Braylon. We'd be able to take both Crabtree and an impact defender in the first round.

looking at his last 3 seasons2006 – 61 catches 3 TD’s2007 – 80 catches 16 TD’s2008 – 55 catches 6 TD’sSeems like the Browns have set the price for him at his 2007 production and I am sure he wants to get paid similar to 2007 production. The problem is 2007 looks more like the exception than the rule for him

 

[duece2626]

Haven't seen anything or heard anything anywhere else, but on the local sports talk radio station here in Philly (ESPN950) there was talk yesterday afternoon that a deal was close to being done between the Browns and Giants for Edwards. The talk was a first and fifth for Edwards. Anyone hear anything like that?

Yes, this rumor has been making the rounds on Browns forums and blogs. Apparently the Browns are holding out for a 1st and 3rd, ala the Roy Williams trade (which I believe was for a 1st, 3rd, and 5th). We'll see if Braylon is able to command that.I think that would be adequate compensation for Braylon. We'd be able to take both Crabtree and an impact defender in the first round.

looking at his last 3 seasons2006 – 61 catches 3 TD’s2007 – 80 catches 16 TD’s2008 – 55 catches 6 TD’sSeems like the Browns have set the price for him at his 2007 production and I am sure he wants to get paid similar to 2007 production. The problem is 2007 looks more like the exception than the rule for him

You could say the exact same thing about Roy and his only real good season in 2006.

 

[amnesiac]

Haven't seen anything or heard anything anywhere else, but on the local sports talk radio station here in Philly (ESPN950) there was talk yesterday afternoon that a deal was close to being done between the Browns and Giants for Edwards. The talk was a first and fifth for Edwards. Anyone hear anything like that?

Yes, this rumor has been making the rounds on Browns forums and blogs. Apparently the Browns are holding out for a 1st and 3rd, ala the Roy Williams trade (which I believe was for a 1st, 3rd, and 5th). We'll see if Braylon is able to command that.I think that would be adequate compensation for Braylon. We'd be able to take both Crabtree and an impact defender in the first round.

if the Browns can get a 1st and 3rd, i'd be impressed.

 

[amnesiac]

i'll also add that if Mangini trades Winslow and Edwards, that sends the message to the team that he's not going to put up with any Prima Donnas (unless you can play Nose Tackle)

i have no idea if he's going to fail or not, but you have to admit he's not afraid to do things his way.

i wonder if part of the reason that Lerner was so impressed with him is that he promised to get rid of the crybabies.

 

[Bobcat10]

i'll also add that if Mangini trades Winslow and Edwards, that sends the message to the team that he's not going to put up with any Prima Donnas (unless you can play Nose Tackle)

i have no idea if he's going to fail or not, but you have to admit he's not afraid to do things his way.

i wonder if part of the reason that Lerner was so impressed with him is that he promised to get rid of the crybabies.

Don't you think that got blown out of proportion, especially by the local media? Everything I've read lately says they are fine and Rogers is in great shape (for him at least lol).

 

[amnesiac]

i'll also add that if Mangini trades Winslow and Edwards, that sends the message to the team that he's not going to put up with any Prima Donnas (unless you can play Nose Tackle)

i have no idea if he's going to fail or not, but you have to admit he's not afraid to do things his way.

i wonder if part of the reason that Lerner was so impressed with him is that he promised to get rid of the crybabies.

Don't you think that got blown out of proportion, especially by the local media? Everything I've read lately says they are fine and Rogers is in great shape (for him at least lol).

i'm sure a lot of things get blown out of proportion, but when you start hearing about demands for release or trade, you have to really wonder what's going on.but i am also glad they seem to have worked things out.

 

[Rockchild]

i'll also add that if Mangini trades Winslow and Edwards, that sends the message to the team that he's not going to put up with any Prima Donnas (unless you can play Nose Tackle)

i have no idea if he's going to fail or not, but you have to admit he's not afraid to do things his way.

i wonder if part of the reason that Lerner was so impressed with him is that he promised to get rid of the crybabies.

Don't you think that got blown out of proportion, especially by the local media? Everything I've read lately says they are fine and Rogers is in great shape (for him at least lol).

i'm sure a lot of things get blown out of proportion, but when you start hearing about demands for release or trade, you have to really wonder what's going on.but i am also glad they seem to have worked things out.

What happens if Edwards and Quinn are moved, and it's obvious a rebuild is taking place, will Rogers reconciliation continue?

 

[amnesiac]

i'll also add that if Mangini trades Winslow and Edwards, that sends the message to the team that he's not going to put up with any Prima Donnas (unless you can play Nose Tackle)

i have no idea if he's going to fail or not, but you have to admit he's not afraid to do things his way.

i wonder if part of the reason that Lerner was so impressed with him is that he promised to get rid of the crybabies.

Don't you think that got blown out of proportion, especially by the local media? Everything I've read lately says they are fine and Rogers is in great shape (for him at least lol).

i'm sure a lot of things get blown out of proportion, but when you start hearing about demands for release or trade, you have to really wonder what's going on.but i am also glad they seem to have worked things out.

What happens if Edwards and Quinn are moved, and it's obvious a rebuild is taking place, will Rogers reconciliation continue?

i don't know. if they move those players, you'd have to think they are moving in the direction of a strictly ball control type team, which would make him arguably THE star of the Browns.

 

[Bobcat10]

In New York this week and a few people were saying they're gonna trade up to get Crabtree.

 

[The Man With No Name]

In New York this week and a few people were saying they're gonna trade up to get Crabtree.

Did you tell them it won't happen? It may not seem like they have smartest GM and Head Coach around, but they probably know the best way to turn a bad team around is to aquire as many draft picks as possible, especially high picks. Moving up from pick 5 would be a bad move imo. We shouldn't expect a turnaround over night, it will take some time. Hopefully not too long though.

 

[Paul Brown]

 

[The Man With No Name]

Along with all the other holes with no starting caliber players, D'Qwell and Leon will both be UFA'a after this season. As of now there are some good MLB/ILB options that will be available in 2010 free agency. Hope the new group has a plan for this. Barton isn't a long term answer either.

 

[Tecumseh]

In New York this week and a few people were saying they're gonna trade up to get Crabtree.

IMO, the ONLY player worth even considering trading up for is Curry. I'll be extremely unhappy if the take Crabtree, whether Braylon is still on the team or not.

 

[MAC_32]

In New York this week and a few people were saying they're gonna trade up to get Crabtree.

IMO, the ONLY player worth even considering trading up for is Curry. I'll be extremely unhappy if the take Crabtree, whether Braylon is still on the team or not.

ManKok wants more picks, not less. I doubt we trade up for anybody before the late rounds, if at all.

 

[wadegarrett]

In New York this week and a few people were saying they're gonna trade up to get Crabtree.

I'll be extremely unhappy if they take Crabtree, whether Braylon is still on the team or not.

 

[SuperJohn96]

Can I just say, that after being unable to go see CLE @ BUF this past season (I live near Toronto FTR), I am absolutely FURIOUS that I'm lucky enough to have a second crack at CLE @ BUF and it falls on my (i.e. Canada's) Thanksgiving Day weekend.

You've GOT to be kidding me.

 

[NJDawgPound]

In New York this week and a few people were saying they're gonna trade up to get Crabtree.

IMO, the ONLY player worth even considering trading up for is Curry. I'll be extremely unhappy if the take Crabtree, whether Braylon is still on the team or not.

Why can't we just do the right thing and see if Arizona will take Braylon for Boldin? That way we can make a lateral move instead of creating yet another need to be filled by an unproven player.

 

[thelongsnapper]

In New York this week and a few people were saying they're gonna trade up to get Crabtree.

IMO, the ONLY player worth even considering trading up for is Curry. I'll be extremely unhappy if the take Crabtree, whether Braylon is still on the team or not.

Why can't we just do the right thing and see if Arizona will take Braylon for Boldin? That way we can make a lateral move instead of creating yet another need to be filled by an unproven player.

No arguments here about that trade, however I wouldn't be disappointed if they still selected Crabtree. The offense is close to being great IMO (or at least very good). Defense is farther away and could use a playmaker, but I would rather get a young supporting cast before drafting 'the guy' on defense. I could be without a clue as well.(My point being is Crabtree is that special of a player, don't pass on him just because he's a wideout wether you have Braylon or Boldin.)

 

[NJDawgPound]

In New York this week and a few people were saying they're gonna trade up to get Crabtree.

IMO, the ONLY player worth even considering trading up for is Curry. I'll be extremely unhappy if the take Crabtree, whether Braylon is still on the team or not.

Why can't we just do the right thing and see if Arizona will take Braylon for Boldin? That way we can make a lateral move instead of creating yet another need to be filled by an unproven player.

No arguments here about that trade, however I wouldn't be disappointed if they still selected Crabtree. The offense is close to being great IMO (or at least very good). Defense is farther away and could use a playmaker, but I would rather get a young supporting cast before drafting 'the guy' on defense. I could be without a clue as well.(My point being is Crabtree is that special of a player, don't pass on him just because he's a wideout wether you have Braylon or Boldin.)

The offensive line is above average, but that's about it. We don't know which Anderson will come to play and Brady Quinn is still unproven. Our best hands guy and playmaker was replaced by Robert Royal. We can't count on Stallworth and there's no Jurevicius. If Edwards is moved for picks, then what? I love Crabtree's talent but our number one receiver? Not yet. And Jamal Lewis is aging. I think if we're lucky, the offense will be mediocre. We also have a new offensive coordinator so there's a learning curve there as well.I want to believe but I'm not a fan of Mangini and Kokinis' direction right now.

 

[thelongsnapper]

The offensive line is above average, but that's about it. We don't know which Anderson will come to play and Brady Quinn is still unproven. Our best hands guy and playmaker was replaced by Robert Royal. We can't count on Stallworth and there's no Jurevicius. If Edwards is moved for picks, then what? I love Crabtree's talent but our number one receiver? Not yet. And Jamal Lewis is aging. I think if we're lucky, the offense will be mediocre. We also have a new offensive coordinator so there's a learning curve there as well.I want to believe but I'm not a fan of Mangini and Kokinis' direction right now.

Agreed on your assessment of the offense. I really like Kellen, he was one of my favorite Browns (attitude and everything), however I don't believe he made our offense and think the TEs we have on the roster can do what is required by the position better overall than Kellen. I admit I most likely would be in the minority there. I think if Mangini makes it an honest battle for the QB spot, Quinn will win it and be a pleasant surprise (shock) to everyone. I think Jamal will give us a 2007 type of year and maybe we're yet to get our starting RB for this on the roster yet. I think our WRs (minus Stallworth..I never was a fan) will be alright this year with Braylon leading the way. If we were lucky enough to get Crabtree great! If not...great! Just make the right call and get a player with a head on his shoulders as well as the talent.Sorry, that's alot of "I thinks". Here's one more...It's just my opinion, but I think ManKok are seeing the big picture in Cleveland and aren't going to be pressured into making quick decisions. They aren't going sacrifice their plan to get immediate approval from the fans and the media. They will risk being hated by the players/fans/media until they are proven right...or fired...but that's their plan and they're sticking to it.Personally, I'm just glad to have some hard***es leading the way. The learn to like it or get outa the way kinda atmosphere is one I can get on board with.

 

[NJDawgPound]

The offensive line is above average, but that's about it. We don't know which Anderson will come to play and Brady Quinn is still unproven. Our best hands guy and playmaker was replaced by Robert Royal. We can't count on Stallworth and there's no Jurevicius. If Edwards is moved for picks, then what? I love Crabtree's talent but our number one receiver? Not yet. And Jamal Lewis is aging. I think if we're lucky, the offense will be mediocre. We also have a new offensive coordinator so there's a learning curve there as well.I want to believe but I'm not a fan of Mangini and Kokinis' direction right now.

Agreed on your assessment of the offense. I really like Kellen, he was one of my favorite Browns (attitude and everything), however I don't believe he made our offense and think the TEs we have on the roster can do what is required by the position better overall than Kellen. I admit I most likely would be in the minority there. I think if Mangini makes it an honest battle for the QB spot, Quinn will win it and be a pleasant surprise (shock) to everyone. I think Jamal will give us a 2007 type of year and maybe we're yet to get our starting RB for this on the roster yet. I think our WRs (minus Stallworth..I never was a fan) will be alright this year with Braylon leading the way. If we were lucky enough to get Crabtree great! If not...great! Just make the right call and get a player with a head on his shoulders as well as the talent.Sorry, that's alot of "I thinks". Here's one more...It's just my opinion, but I think ManKok are seeing the big picture in Cleveland and aren't going to be pressured into making quick decisions. They aren't going sacrifice their plan to get immediate approval from the fans and the media. They will risk being hated by the players/fans/media until they are proven right...or fired...but that's their plan and they're sticking to it.Personally, I'm just glad to have some hard***es leading the way. The learn to like it or get outa the way kinda atmosphere is one I can get on board with.

It is possible to get Belichick style results without Belichick style dooshism in the customer service department. It's one thing to be hard and drive results on the field, but off the field you have a lot of customers that pay a lot of money to support the team. You can be honest and forthright to the fans and media and still keep the valuable trade secrets close to the vest. We're getting antagonism these days. To the players, the media, and the fans.

 

[Tecumseh]

The offensive line is above average, but that's about it. We don't know which Anderson will come to play and Brady Quinn is still unproven. Our best hands guy and playmaker was replaced by Robert Royal. We can't count on Stallworth and there's no Jurevicius. If Edwards is moved for picks, then what? I love Crabtree's talent but our number one receiver? Not yet. And Jamal Lewis is aging. I think if we're lucky, the offense will be mediocre. We also have a new offensive coordinator so there's a learning curve there as well.

I want to believe but I'm not a fan of Mangini and Kokinis' direction right now.

Agreed on your assessment of the offense. I really like Kellen, he was one of my favorite Browns (attitude and everything), however I don't believe he made our offense and think the TEs we have on the roster can do what is required by the position better overall than Kellen. I admit I most likely would be in the minority there. I think if Mangini makes it an honest battle for the QB spot, Quinn will win it and be a pleasant surprise (shock) to everyone. I think Jamal will give us a 2007 type of year and maybe we're yet to get our starting RB for this on the roster yet. I think our WRs (minus Stallworth..I never was a fan) will be alright this year with Braylon leading the way. If we were lucky enough to get Crabtree great! If not...great! Just make the right call and get a player with a head on his shoulders as well as the talent.Sorry, that's alot of "I thinks". Here's one more...

It's just my opinion, but I think ManKok are seeing the big picture in Cleveland and aren't going to be pressured into making quick decisions. They aren't going sacrifice their plan to get immediate approval from the fans and the media. They will risk being hated by the players/fans/media until they are proven right...or fired...but that's their plan and they're sticking to it.

Personally, I'm just glad to have some hard***es leading the way. The learn to like it or get outa the way kinda atmosphere is one I can get on board with.

Agreed. I've come around and I actually like the moves made so far, and I support the way they are doing things. The downside, however, is that the team will not be competitive in '09.

 

[amnesiac]

16 Cribbs, Joshua WR 6-1 215 06/09/1983 4 Kent State 17 Edwards, Braylon WR 6-3 215 02/21/1983 4 Michigan Ellis, Devale WR 5-10 174 04/02/1984 2 Hofstra 89 Hubbard, Paul WR 6-2 225 06/12/1985 R Wisconsin 9 Leggett, Lance WR 6-3 200 02/11/1985 R Miami (Fla.) Patten, David WR 5-10 190 08/19/1974 12 Western Carolina 18 Stallworth, Donte WR 6-0 200 11/10/1980 7 Tennessee 12 Steptoe, Syndric WR 5-9 200 12/06/1984 1 Arizona

these are the WRs on the roster right now, according to the Browns website.i don't think Stallworth is going to play for the Browns this year. Cribbs, while i love him as a football player, really isn't a starting WR imo.supposing they trade Edwards to the Giants, and get a WR in the trade, they would still need to draft 2 WRs. (edit- at least one WR in the first or early second.) if they get the 1.29 from NY, they could go defense at 1.5 and draft WR at 1.29 and/or 2.5. in this senario, they should get the trade done before the draft. if i were NY, and i was on the clock, i would probably just draft a WR instead of pulling the trigger on the trade with Cleveland.on the flipside, if they really want Crabtree, i think they will have to wait till they are on the clock, make the trade and draft Crabtree. i think this puts them at an obvious disadvantage in trade talks.another possibility that i don't think has been discussed, is keeping Edwards, and drafting Crabtree if he's there to pair with Edwards for one year and then letting him walk.this is all making my head spin, and this is only the WR position. not even mentioning the rest of the needs this team has.

 

[JoeSteeler]

What is the outlook for Paul Hubbard this season?

 

[amnesiac]

What is the outlook for Paul Hubbard this season?

i don't know. i'm pretty sure he was never active for a game last year, and with the new coaching staff, i would say the practice squad is likely.

 

[JoeSteeler]

What is the outlook for Paul Hubbard this season?

i don't know. i'm pretty sure he was never active for a game last year, and with the new coaching staff, i would say the practice squad is likely.

Thanks. I thought he had skill coming out of Wisconsin and with Stallworth done he might contribute.

 

[MAC_32]

What is the outlook for Paul Hubbard this season?

i don't know. i'm pretty sure he was never active for a game last year, and with the new coaching staff, i would say the practice squad is likely.

Thanks. I thought he had skill coming out of Wisconsin and with Stallworth done he might contribute.

He has potential, but he was drafted as a huge project (more of a track runner than a football player) by the old regime. No telling if the new regime cares at all about him.Below is an army of 'if scenarios'

I hope one of but not both Curry and Crabtree are taken before us so we can take the other one, if both fall us being the Browns will choose the wrong one. If we take Curry I think we take a Robiskie type at pick 36 and hope we trade DA for a 3rd rounder and take Jarrett Dillard there.

If we take Crabtree I don't think we take another WR until round 4, a Kenny McKinley type may fit well there.

If we take Orakpo (hopefully because Crabtree and Curry are unavailable and we were unable to trade down, otherwise I'll be pissed) or are able to trade down, I think we take the same route at WR as we would if we took Curry.

If we are able to trade down I am a) very curious to see what sort of package we'll get in return and b) wondering who in the blue hell we're targetting - I'm hoping for Maualaga (sp.) but given our signing of Barton I wonder if the staff has him in their potential draft plans. I doubt it unfortunately.

I still think Braylon is gone regardless, hopefully we can get a Clay Matthews type for him.

Somehow, someway, I think we'll end up with five picks in the top 50. If we can trade DA for a 3rd or better, fantastic.

 

[amnesiac]

3 Anderson, Derek QB 6-6 230 06/15/1983 4 Oregon State 13 Bartel, Richard QB 6-3 233 02/03/1983 1 Tarleton State 10 Quinn, Brady QB 6-3 235 10/27/1984 2 Notre Dame

so this is what their site is showing at QB right now.suppose they trade DA or Quinn. now what? who is left on the FA scrap heap?are they seriously considering Sanchez? and a serious question here, why has he been rising up the draft boards over the last two weeks?

 

[amnesiac]

Below is an army of 'if scenarios'

I hope one of but not both Curry and Crabtree are taken before us so we can take the other one, if both fall us being the Browns will choose the wrong one. If we take Curry I think we take a Robiskie type at pick 36 and hope we trade DA for a 3rd rounder and take Jarrett Dillard there.

If we take Orakpo (hopefully because Crabtree and Curry are unavailable and we were unable to trade down, otherwise I'll be pissed) or are able to trade down, I think we take the same route at WR as we would if we took Curry.

i keep reading how great Curry is, but doesn't he boil down to basically an inside LB in the 3-4? not that he wouldn't be useful, but is that a spot that they should spend a 1.5 pick and top five money? doesn't taking a WR at that spot scare you at all?

i can't wait till this draft is over, it's making my head hurt. i think i'm just going to keep my fingers crossed that they can trade down for more picks.

 

[MAC_32]

3 Anderson, Derek QB 6-6 230 06/15/1983 4 Oregon State 13 Bartel, Richard QB 6-3 233 02/03/1983 1 Tarleton State 10 Quinn, Brady QB 6-3 235 10/27/1984 2 Notre Dame

so this is what their site is showing at QB right now.suppose they trade DA or Quinn. now what? who is left on the FA scrap heap?are they seriously considering Sanchez? and a serious question here, why has he been rising up the draft boards over the last two weeks?

I don't think they're seriously considering Sanchez, at least I hope not. I don't think he's rising up boards, I think it's posturizing from teams trying to play with his true value. Where he's taken on draft day may not even answer that question - that's where he could have been valued...or a team may have been duped.I hope they deal DA, and I too don't even know what's out there. I just want some answers to the QB situation entering camp instead of working to find those answers in camp. That said, knowing Mangini and his want to make everything a competition in camp (listing the depth chart alphabetically) it wouldn't surprise me if he kept DA around, especially if he can't trade him due to DA's offseason knee operation fuding with his value.