Browns to consider trading up in the draft to get elite QB (1 Viewer)

[Christo]

I dont believe that Holmgren or Heckert have a 1st round QB draft choice in their careers. Unless someone slips I doubt that changes.

Well, GB did give Atlanta a 1st for Favre when he'd just thrown four passes in the league--two of which were intercepted.

 

[PizzaDeliveryGuy]

anyone see them trading up into the late first if Tebow is still there??? A couple seasons behind Delhome, he just might be what Cleveland needs.

That would be where my fandom draws the line. We have eaten a lot of crap as Cleveland fans but if they spend a 3rd round pick or earlier on that overrated bible-thumper then I am done with them.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

The best way to get an elite QB is to draft one early period. Bradys and Romos of the world are rare.

Actually, it looks like you're just as likely to get an elite QB in free agency or via trade. You're not expecting to get Tom Brady in the 6th round, you're expecting to get Drew Brees or Brett Favre on the free agent market to add to a team that's already decent. Adding Tim Couch or Brady Quinn to a bad team is likely dooming yourself to another wasted high round QB pick a few years down the road.

Brees is the extremely rare exception. How often does a franchise type QB hit free agency and how often are they traded in their prime. Also he was basically a first round pick (first pick in his own right) in his own right so it still took a high pick for him to enter the league. Favre is kind of pushing it as well, as it took several "retirements" for him to be traded and then hit the FA market.

 

[CalBear]

The best way to get an elite QB is to draft one early period. Bradys and Romos of the world are rare.

Actually, it looks like you're just as likely to get an elite QB in free agency or via trade. You're not expecting to get Tom Brady in the 6th round, you're expecting to get Drew Brees or Brett Favre on the free agent market to add to a team that's already decent. Adding Tim Couch or Brady Quinn to a bad team is likely dooming yourself to another wasted high round QB pick a few years down the road.

Brees is the extremely rare exception. How often does a franchise type QB hit free agency and how often are they traded in their prime. Also he was basically a first round pick (first pick in his own right) in his own right so it still took a high pick for him to enter the league. Favre is kind of pushing it as well, as it took several "retirements" for him to be traded and then hit the FA market.

Did you see the list of the top 12 in 2009? Half of them were free agents or the result of trade. So the answer to how often it happens is, "at least as often as a first round QB success."How about the top 12 from 2008?Drew Brees (free agent)Phillip Rivers (1st round pick, sort of)Aaron Rodgers (1st round pick)Kurt Warner (free agent)Jay Cutler (DEN) (1st round pick)Peyton Manning (1st round pick)Donovan McNabb (1st round pick)Matt Cassell (7th round pick)Tony Romo (free agent)Chad Pennington (free agent)Tyler Thigpen (7th round pick)David Garrard (4th round pick)So in 2008, only 5 of the top 12 QBs were first round picks for the team they were playing for; you were more likely to get a top QB by some other mechanism. It's also 5 of 12 in 2007. Looks like there are plenty of opportunities for getting good performance from someone else's draft pick.

 

[css2373]

Great and I considered getting with Jessica Simpson, but couldn't work it out.

I think that the Rams want Bradford. Even if they would make a trade with the Browns, it would take a Ricky Williams like trade to get to the #1 spot to get him.

The Redskins may take Clausen at #4. The jump from #7 to #3 or #4 is not too expensive and the Browns do have extra picks to make it happen. I am not sold on Clausen, but Shanahan and his offense could make Clausen into a good pro.

While the rest of the QB's are projects, Holmgren may want something to do so why not groom your next starting QB.

Tim Tebow - showed that he can be coached by NFL people and make changes quickly and that may entice Holmgren to use a 2nd rd pick on him.

Jarrett Brown - guys at the Senior Bowl were gushing over his pot'l. I see a guy who doesn't want to plant his front foot and possibly take a hit. No thanks.

Colt McCoy - dude is 6'1" with not the strongest arm. I know Drew Brees is that size as well, but when I see McCoy throw an out pass, not even a deep out, I see the zip come off of the ball and then the ball floats. That will give DB's time to put some salt and pepper on the ol' pigskin before eating it for lunch as they run it back for a score. He is hugely popular and rightfully so and could make a long NFL career as a backup. I just don't see him as a starter. And for all the guys who have played football, hearing that McCoy's arm went dead after that hit in the Nat'l Champ game should raise HUGE read flags. To me that says that his structural makeup will not hold up to the week to week pounding that he will take in the NFL.

There are a number of guys that could be had in the middle rounds who may have something that Holmgren will want. Maybe Tony Pike, Jevan Snead, or Max Hall who knows.

 

[Gopher State]

Browns | Holmgren may meet with several QB before draft

Comment (0)

Fri, 19 Mar 2010 08:47:28 -0700

Tony Grossi, of the Cleveland Plain Dealer, reports Cleveland Browns president Mike Holmgren said he may meet with four or five quarterback prospects before the 2010 NFL Draft.

Holmgren getting his ducks lined up

 

[Steelfan7]

Great and I considered getting with Jessica Simpson, but couldn't work it out.

I think that the Rams want Bradford. Even if they would make a trade with the Browns, it would take a Ricky Williams like trade to get to the #1 spot to get him.

The Redskins may take Clausen at #4. The jump from #7 to #3 or #4 is not too expensive and the Browns do have extra picks to make it happen. I am not sold on Clausen, but Shanahan and his offense could make Clausen into a good pro.

While the rest of the QB's are projects, Holmgren may want something to do so why not groom your next starting QB.

Tim Tebow - showed that he can be coached by NFL people and make changes quickly and that may entice Holmgren to use a 2nd rd pick on him.

Jarrett Brown - guys at the Senior Bowl were gushing over his pot'l. I see a guy who doesn't want to plant his front foot and possibly take a hit. No thanks.

Colt McCoy - dude is 6'1" with not the strongest arm. I know Drew Brees is that size as well, but when I see McCoy throw an out pass, not even a deep out, I see the zip come off of the ball and then the ball floats. That will give DB's time to put some salt and pepper on the ol' pigskin before eating it for lunch as they run it back for a score. He is hugely popular and rightfully so and could make a long NFL career as a backup. I just don't see him as a starter. And for all the guys who have played football, hearing that McCoy's arm went dead after that hit in the Nat'l Champ game should raise HUGE read flags. To me that says that his structural makeup will not hold up to the week to week pounding that he will take in the NFL.

There are a number of guys that could be had in the middle rounds who may have something that Holmgren will want. Maybe Tony Pike, Jevan Snead, or Max Hall who knows.

Same can be said about Bradford.

 

[css2373]

Great and I considered getting with Jessica Simpson, but couldn't work it out.

I think that the Rams want Bradford. Even if they would make a trade with the Browns, it would take a Ricky Williams like trade to get to the #1 spot to get him.

The Redskins may take Clausen at #4. The jump from #7 to #3 or #4 is not too expensive and the Browns do have extra picks to make it happen. I am not sold on Clausen, but Shanahan and his offense could make Clausen into a good pro.

While the rest of the QB's are projects, Holmgren may want something to do so why not groom your next starting QB.

Tim Tebow - showed that he can be coached by NFL people and make changes quickly and that may entice Holmgren to use a 2nd rd pick on him.

Jarrett Brown - guys at the Senior Bowl were gushing over his pot'l. I see a guy who doesn't want to plant his front foot and possibly take a hit. No thanks.

Colt McCoy - dude is 6'1" with not the strongest arm. I know Drew Brees is that size as well, but when I see McCoy throw an out pass, not even a deep out, I see the zip come off of the ball and then the ball floats. That will give DB's time to put some salt and pepper on the ol' pigskin before eating it for lunch as they run it back for a score. He is hugely popular and rightfully so and could make a long NFL career as a backup. I just don't see him as a starter. And for all the guys who have played football, hearing that McCoy's arm went dead after that hit in the Nat'l Champ game should raise HUGE read flags. To me that says that his structural makeup will not hold up to the week to week pounding that he will take in the NFL.

There are a number of guys that could be had in the middle rounds who may have something that Holmgren will want. Maybe Tony Pike, Jevan Snead, or Max Hall who knows.

Same can be said about Bradford.

From what I watched, I disagree. Bradford was getting beat up against BYU and then I believe was rushed back to early for the Texas game and then re-injured his AC joint in his shoulder. He took multiple hits to acquire that injury.McCoy was hit one time and got a pinched nerve in his shoulder which kept him from throwing the ball effectively. I might add that Tebow took a number of those hits every year in the SEC.

We could have another discussion about Bradford being damaged goods with regards to his throwing shoulder and that may prove to be the case.

 

[kaa]

I think I'd trade for Kolb if I'm Holmgren.

Rumors are that Philly is looking for 2 1st rd picks for Kolb.

If that's true, and they won't come down considerably, I'd trade for Billy Volek.

 

[Donnybrook]

Per KFFL:

Browns | Holmgren still uncertain about Tebow's mechanics

Sat, 20 Mar 2010 09:22:28 -0700

Tony Grossi, of the Cleveland Plain Dealer, reports the Cleveland Browns were impressed with what they saw from Florida QB Tim Tebow during his Pro Day workout; however, team president Mike Holmgren still has reservations about Tebow's mechanics. "I just think in the heat of battle guys will usually revert (to old form)," Holmgren said. "I think, and I told him this, that he was so thinking about his mechanics that at times it looked a little robotic ... Now, he did fine. I like the kid so much. He is strong and throws it hard. You can't bet against guys like him because he'll work hard to do this. He's going to make some team really happy."

 

[Peggy Starfish]

Browns | Holmgren will consider QB in first round

Comment (0)

Mon, 15 Mar 2010 13:55:57 -0700

Mary Kay Cabot, of the Cleveland Plain Dealer, reports Cleveland Browns president Mike Holmgren said the team will consider taking a quarterback in the 2010 NFL Draft. Holmgren said the team would consider trading up to get a quarterback.

Because drafting a first-round QB onto a terrible offense worked so well for them last time...Edit to add: The last two times.

Just so I have your theory straight, if it failed twice with Chris Palmer/Butch Davis and Romeo Crennel/Eric Mangini running the show, then it's always sure to fail?

 

[Peggy Starfish]

Per KFFL:

Browns | Holmgren still uncertain about Tebow's mechanics

Sat, 20 Mar 2010 09:22:28 -0700

Tony Grossi, of the Cleveland Plain Dealer, reports the Cleveland Browns were impressed with what they saw from Florida QB Tim Tebow during his Pro Day workout; however, team president Mike Holmgren still has reservations about Tebow's mechanics. "I just think in the heat of battle guys will usually revert (to old form)," Holmgren said. "I think, and I told him this, that he was so thinking about his mechanics that at times it looked a little robotic ... Now, he did fine. I like the kid so much. He is strong and throws it hard. You can't bet against guys like him because he'll work hard to do this. He's going to make some team really happy."

In other words, "I wouldn't touch him with a 10-foot Bible."

 

[CalBear]

Browns | Holmgren will consider QB in first round

Comment (0)

Mon, 15 Mar 2010 13:55:57 -0700

Mary Kay Cabot, of the Cleveland Plain Dealer, reports Cleveland Browns president Mike Holmgren said the team will consider taking a quarterback in the 2010 NFL Draft. Holmgren said the team would consider trading up to get a quarterback.

Because drafting a first-round QB onto a terrible offense worked so well for them last time...Edit to add: The last two times.

Just so I have your theory straight, if it failed twice with Chris Palmer/Butch Davis and Romeo Crennel/Eric Mangini running the show, then it's always sure to fail?

My "theory" is that bad teams almost always need other positions more than they need to take a risk on a first-round QB. (Especially with no clear choices this year). You can add a QB once the team is ready to compete. (If ever.)

 

[Christo]

Browns | Holmgren will consider QB in first round

Comment (0)

Mon, 15 Mar 2010 13:55:57 -0700

Mary Kay Cabot, of the Cleveland Plain Dealer, reports Cleveland Browns president Mike Holmgren said the team will consider taking a quarterback in the 2010 NFL Draft. Holmgren said the team would consider trading up to get a quarterback.

Because drafting a first-round QB onto a terrible offense worked so well for them last time...Edit to add: The last two times.

Just so I have your theory straight, if it failed twice with Chris Palmer/Butch Davis and Romeo Crennel/Eric Mangini running the show, then it's always sure to fail?

My "theory" is that bad teams almost always need other positions more than they need to take a risk on a first-round QB. (Especially with no clear choices this year). You can add a QB once the team is ready to compete. (If ever.)

My "theory" is that need is a crappy way for a bad team to draft. Good teams can afford to draft for need. Bad teams should draft for talent no matter what position. And if that happens to be QB they shouldn't pass up the opportunity.

 

[Steelfan7]

I think I'd trade for Kolb if I'm Holmgren.

Rumors are that Philly is looking for 2 1st rd picks for Kolb.

If that's true, and they won't come down considerably, I'd trade for Billy Volek.

 

[Verbal Kint]

Problem is there are no elite QBs in this draft.

 

[Gopher State]

Browns | Holmgren would consider trading up for Bradford

Comment (0)

Sun, 21 Mar 2010 16:40:53 -0700

Tony Grossi, of the Cleveland Plain Dealer, reports Cleveland Browns president Mike Holmgren likes Oklahoma QB Sam Bradford, but he believes the St. Louis Rams will pick him with the No. 1 pick in the 2010 NFL Draft. Holmgren said he would consider trading up for Bradford, but he does not think that would be realistic.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Routilla]

Am I the only one that thinks there are no elite QBs in this draft?

 

[The Real Hipster Doofus]

Am I the only one that thinks there are no elite QBs in this draft?

I think if Bradford is fully healed he is a franchise QB.

 

[Donnybrook]

From profotballtalk.com:

"I wish I liked [Clausen] more," Holmgren said. "You know how you have a type of player that you like? It's not scientific. People like him a lot. He'll go high. But it would be hard for me [to take him]."

Holmgren talks to much IMO.

 

[Bri]

gotta draft trenches, if no QB pans out

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Am I the only one that thinks there are no elite QBs in this draft?

thought the same thing last year and Stafford and Dirty sanchez look ok. Im pretty sure Bradford is better than both

 

[Peggy Starfish]

From profotballtalk.com:

"I wish I liked [Clausen] more," Holmgren said. "You know how you have a type of player that you like? It's not scientific. People like him a lot. He'll go high. But it would be hard for me [to take him]."

Holmgren talks to much IMO.

Seriously. Hard to believe he said that publicly, even if you assume it's misinformation.

 

[css2373]

Holmgren is talking ALOT these days...seems that he wants to take every QB and then no QB...

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d...mp;confirm=true

Browns team president Mike Holmgren plans to draft a quarterback this year. Just don't expect it to be in the first couple of rounds.

In a report by The Plain Dealer, Holmgren said, "It's just something we have to do. Why wait? I'm 61. I don't want to wait for anyone. We're going to have to do this."

Cleveland recently signed veteran quarterback Jake Delhomme, and traded for Seahawks QB Seneca Wallace, but neither of those players is the long-term solution under center.

The team has too many needs to take a quarterback in the first or second round, however.

As Holmgren told the newspaper, "There are areas of the football team that we really have to help -- the secondary, offensive line -- to get the team better. This year it would be pretty hard to use the second [round] pick to get a quarterback. It would be pretty hard for me."

The Browns have been searching for a franchise quarterback ever since they came back to existence in 1999. They have twice selected a quarterback in the first round, but both failed to live up to expectations. Brady Quinn, taken in the first round by the Browns in 2007, was traded to the Broncos a week ago, and Tim Couch, the first overall pick in 1999, lasted only five unproductive seasons before being let go.

Holmgren was brought in to help rebuild the Browns following a 5-11 campaign this past season. In order to move that process along, he must find a young player who can develop into an elite signal-caller.

If anyone is capable of doing so, it would be Holmgren. He is one of the most respected quarterback tutors in the league, having coached Joe Montana in San Francisco, Brett Favre in Green Bay and Matt Hasselbeck in Seattle.

During his time in Green Bay and Seattle, his teams often drafted quarterbacks in the middle-to-late rounds. Holmgren told the newspaper he expects to continue that trend with Cleveland.

 

[Donnybrook]

Just, as well. I really think the second tier of QBs are a underated group. Dan Lefevour, Jon Skelton, Zack Robinson, Mike Kafka and Levi Browns have NFL size and have completion percentages over 60%. They seem like decent propects to me.

 

[DawgPoundNJ]

Just, as well. I really think the second tier of QBs are a underated group. Dan Lefevour, Jon Skelton, Zack Robinson, Mike Kafka and Levi Browns have NFL size and have completion percentages over 60%. They seem like decent propects to me.

How many, if any, of these dudes ran a pro-style offense?

 

[Bri]

Just, as well. I really think the second tier of QBs are a underated group. Dan Lefevour, Jon Skelton, Zack Robinson, Mike Kafka and Levi Browns have NFL size and have completion percentages over 60%. They seem like decent propects to me.

How many, if any, of these dudes ran a pro-style offense?

Zac Robinson has had an awesome "post-season" but it seems he raised his value from "nah we won't pick him" to "maybe a later round pick". Of course, the Pats are interested in him and with their previous "finds" that might up his draft value some too but....I think like Bloom and Cecil were right when they said on their show, he's probably a backup + spot starter.We'll hear about the workouts for individual teams and if he continues to shine maybe he will be an NFL starter someday. Sometimes guys fit the NFL game so well and weren't necessarily awesome in college. He could be like that. His stats are pretty good.McCoy, Bradford and Tebow's stats were better than so many QBs in the history of college football that it's not too too big a deal he wasn't as good as them.Shaky QB but really gaining steam now.

 

[Bobcat10]

I absolutely hate it when a team goes QB in the first round. That almost always means they are either willing to use a first round pick on a player that won't see action their first year on the team, or the player will get thrown to the wolves and the entire team will struggle for wins while they slowly learn the ropes. I especially hate it even more when a team trades away additional draft picks to end up in either of those two positions I just described. Having said that, this is now a Holmgren team and this move should not surprise anyone. His system won't work (or at least won't work well) if he doesn't have a QB that fits well within the system.

What I find interesting is hearing about Cleveland switching to Holmgren's WC offense when he is just a Personnel guy now. Has this been confirmed by the Browns or people just assuming. Serious question.

Locally, we've been told that Holmgren will not impose his system on the team, but that Mangini/Dabol now have someone to bounce things off of. That being said, the media frquently adopts the WCO stance anyway. IMO, Holmgren has too much to do and would prefer to stay out of the coaching aspect.

While some of what you say is true, Haskell and Wallace were brought in for very specific reasons. I've heard Haskell and Daboll are meeting very frequently. This smells like a Holmgren/Haskell take over at some point...but I'm getting ahead of myself probably.

Could be. I don't know anything more than you do. While a takeover could eventually happen, bringing structure to the organization appears to be Holmgren's primary task. Right now, he's content to to that and let Mangini do his thing. I can also argue that Wallace is a no-brainer regardless. He's better than what we had (~0) and cost nearly nothing. Haskell, on the other hand, has nothing to do with the textbook offense at all. Although I suspect I'm in the minority, I like the way things look right now, and I hope it's legit. Holmgren is THE MAN (czar / architech / whatever), Haskell is the GM, Mangini is the coach.

You're getting yourself confused.Heckert is the GM. I'm talking about Haskell, who does have everything to do with Holmgren's "textbook offense".