Buffalo Safety-Damar Hamlin is awake and **Bills at Bengals** Game has been Canceled (1 Viewer)

[SoBeDad]

>>Denny Kellington let’s praise this name and person for reviving Our Brother Damar on the field. Denny gave CPR and chest compressions to get his Heart Back Beating #DennyKellington And also thank you to all the doctors and Medical professionals that have helped and assisted 3<<

Lots of suggestions on twitter about how to honor trainer Denny Kellington and others, including those who retreived and used the AED device so quickly.

Announce the training staff instead of the players, give out Denny jerseys, CPR training at the stadium. If Hamlin continues to improve, the crowd at the stadium and in front of TVs will have a feel good moment not felt in a long time.

https://twitter.com/DDawkins66/status/1611045416803368974?t=U0KykNq9udFLIKvT067ARw&s=19

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

This is still too early to tell. I friend of mine had a cardiac arrest and was in pretty much the same situation for weeks. At times he would grab his wife`s hand or eyes would open and close and they would get excited, but he was far from out of the woods.

This makes me curious as to what actions would be seen as signs that Hamlin is "out of the woods" (not to say 100% back to normal). Does it have to get to the point where he's able to get out of bed and walk around under his own power, or is there something that would be seen as "out of the woods" even if he were still bed-bound?

In these situations, I am not sure. I would think when the medical staff announces they are happy with the way things are trending.

Some of the medical folks in this thread might be able to share their opinions. Maybe it's things like holding conversations (even if haltingly), drinking/eating (generally, swallowing safely and un-aided), or things like that.

See the update posted.

He’s still considered critical care while they monitor him, but he’s been evaluated as “neurologically intact”.

Doctors who’ve opined suggest this means
• Lungs functioning without ventilator.
• Alert, aware, comminication, motor functions (to what limited degree they can evaluate while he’s in bed)

Time will tell, as there are many tests ahead to determine if anything went awry, either physically or mentally, but it sure sounds like he’s going to make a full recovery, which is amazing.

https://twitter.com/rgiii/status/1611040367083651076?s=46&t=COaF-TqxyQSy7nvhmZnGuw

 

[Terminalxylem]

... it's not posturing, he's holding my hand (btw....grasping a hand is a basic reflex that infants do from birth...LETTING GO when asked to is the real progress ...

@renesauz and @growlers , @Terminalxylem , and anyone else who might know:

This hasn't been reported yet, but with his eyes now open, Hamlin's caregivers and family might start noticing him tracking people in the room with his eyes. Would this be a meaningful development? Or does it have to be done on command (e.g. 'follow this light')?

Good news, but still doesn’t preclude some degree of anoxic brain injury.

 

[Da Guru]

... it's not posturing, he's holding my hand (btw....grasping a hand is a basic reflex that infants do from birth...LETTING GO when asked to is the real progress ...

@renesauz and @growlers , @Terminalxylem , and anyone else who might know:

This hasn't been reported yet, but with his eyes now open, Hamlin's caregivers and family might start noticing him tracking people in the room with his eyes. Would this be a meaningful development? Or does it have to be done on command (e.g. 'follow this light')?

Good news, but still doesn’t preclude some degree of anoxic brain injury.

Right now it seems like they got to him so fast, much faster than your average cardiac arrest person would get treatment that he can possibly make a somewhat full recovery. If this happens at home or at work, it could be several minutes and then the brain will have serious damage if you even survive.

 

[amnesiac]

... it's not posturing, he's holding my hand (btw....grasping a hand is a basic reflex that infants do from birth...LETTING GO when asked to is the real progress ...

@renesauz and @growlers , @Terminalxylem , and anyone else who might know:

This hasn't been reported yet, but with his eyes now open, Hamlin's caregivers and family might start noticing him tracking people in the room with his eyes. Would this be a meaningful development? Or does it have to be done on command (e.g. 'follow this light')?

Good news, but still doesn’t preclude some degree of anoxic brain injury.

which could still lead to any number of neurological symptoms, correct?

could you give some common examples?

 

[Doug B]

Good news, but still doesn’t preclude some degree of anoxic brain injury.

Thanks, Terminalxylem. In your experience, what kind of signs make you think -- for a patient in Hamlin's immediate situation -- "Yeah, this patient has turned the corner -- gonna be all right now"?

I guess it depends on definitions of "out of the woods" and "be all right", too.

 

[Doug B]

Doctors who’ve opined suggest this means
• Lungs functioning without ventilator.
• Alert, aware, comminication, motor functions (to what limited degree they can evaluate while he’s in bed)

The bolded would be fantastic. I have to admit, I wasn't sure what "neurologically intact" really meant -- more specifically, how a report of "neurologically intact" correlated (or not) to "patient's pre-injury state".

 

[themeistersinger]

Harrison Phillips picks up tab for dinner at UC Medical for his former teammate Damar Hamlin’s family, Bills staff, doctors and nurses at the ICU unit.. class act from Harry #Skol

https://twitter.com/sosarick/status/1610686674169909248

Phillips previously played for the Bills and was a teammate of Hamlin

 

[BroncoFreak_2K3]

Not to take a big sidebar, but Bill Belicheck today remembered a 1997 game in which he was coaching with the Jets where DET LB Reggie Brown required on-field CPR. Does anyone remember that?
Here's the play. Here's an article.

My wife and I and my buddy and his wife were at that game. We went hoping to see Barry eclipse the 2,000 yard mark. I'll never forget how quiet a stadium crowd of that size could be so quiet after going so crazy all prior to that incident happening. It was wild. Chuck Hughes popped into my head immediately because I remember seeing that one and Butkis' reaction on the TV as a kid.

 

[Anarchy99]

Not to take a big sidebar, but Bill Belicheck today remembered a 1997 game in which he was coaching with the Jets where DET LB Reggie Brown required on-field CPR. Does anyone remember that?
Here's the play. Here's an article.

My wife and I and my buddy and his wife were at that game. I'll never forget how quiet a stadium crowd of that size could be so quiet. It was wild.

Curious as to whether you remember how things played out? 10-minute delay then back to live action? 30-minute delay and a 5-minute warm up session? Just curious how things went 25 years ago vs. how things were handled in the BUF-CIN game. It might not have been quite as serious for Brown (ie, may not have required 10 minutes of CPR), so may not be apples-to-apples.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Doctors who’ve opined suggest this means
• Lungs functioning without ventilator.
• Alert, aware, comminication, motor functions (to what limited degree they can evaluate while he’s in bed)

The bolded would be fantastic. I have to admit, I wasn't sure what "neurologically intact" really meant -- more specifically, how a report of "neurologically intact" correlated (or not) to "patient's pre-injury state".

Again, I know this is a sensitive subject so folks, please don’t shoot the messenger - I’m just parroting what Twitter MD is saying “neurologically intact” means.

I didn’t know myself and was curious. By all means, anyone in the medical field - please do correct this if inaccurate.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

omg

Doctors said after Damar Hamlin awakened last night, he asked in writing who won the game. Doctors told him: “Yes, you won. You’ve won the game of life.”

https://twitter.com/adamschefter/status/1611073629705408513?s=46&t=COaF-TqxyQSy7nvhmZnGuw

 

[tribe]

Based on the current press conference with his doctors, it sounds like he is alert and responsive to commands. Even commented that he asked who won the game....not verbally (still has the tube so cant talk) but via written communication. Still a long way to go but very encouraging.

 

[themeistersinger]

Based on the current press conference with his doctors, it sounds like he is alert and responsive to commands. Even commented that he asked who won the game....not verbally (still has the tube so cant talk) but via written communication. Still a long way to go but very encouraging.

It tells us a whole pile of good things:
He knows there was a football game and he wanted to know the outcome
He is able to write at least somewhat legibly, or maybe by typing out on some kind of device
He can hear and understand what is being said

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Update:

https://twitter.com/tompelissero/status/1611078837743325185?s=46&t=COaF-TqxyQSy7nvhmZnGuw

Dr. Knight says Hamlin is still on the ventilator and hasn't been fully assessed, given the circumstances. "Neurologically intact" means big motor movements and following commands. As for cognition, speech, etc. -- "looking forward to learning more soon."

 

[psychobillies]

omg

Doctors said after Damar Hamlin awakened last night, he asked in writing who won the game. Doctors told him: “Yes, you won. You’ve won the game of life.”

https://twitter.com/adamschefter/status/1611073629705408513?s=46&t=COaF-TqxyQSy7nvhmZnGuw

How can he think of a football game at a time like this?

 

[Anarchy99]

omg

Doctors said after Damar Hamlin awakened last night, he asked in writing who won the game. Doctors told him: “Yes, you won. You’ve won the game of life.”

https://twitter.com/adamschefter/status/1611073629705408513?s=46&t=COaF-TqxyQSy7nvhmZnGuw

How can he think of a football game at a time like this?

I am not in healthcare, but I would guess his last memory was tackling Higgins. As soon as he was awake, he didn't realize where he was, how long he was under, and just continued his thought process from what he last remembered.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

omg

Doctors said after Damar Hamlin awakened last night, he asked in writing who won the game. Doctors told him: “Yes, you won. You’ve won the game of life.”

https://twitter.com/adamschefter/status/1611073629705408513?s=46&t=COaF-TqxyQSy7nvhmZnGuw

How can he think of a football game at a time like this?

When your entire life is football, and the last thing you did is make a tackle, it makes a lot of sense.

 

[amnesiac]

omg

Doctors said after Damar Hamlin awakened last night, he asked in writing who won the game. Doctors told him: “Yes, you won. You’ve won the game of life.”

https://twitter.com/adamschefter/status/1611073629705408513?s=46&t=COaF-TqxyQSy7nvhmZnGuw

How can he think of a football game at a time like this?

I am not in healthcare, but I would guess his last memory was tackling Higgins. As soon as he was awake, he didn't realize where he was, how long he was under, and just continued his thought process from what he last remembered.

i would be amazed if he remembers making that tackle.

i'm honestly shocked he remembered he was in a football game.

 

[jobarules]

omg

Doctors said after Damar Hamlin awakened last night, he asked in writing who won the game. Doctors told him: “Yes, you won. You’ve won the game of life.”

https://twitter.com/adamschefter/status/1611073629705408513?s=46&t=COaF-TqxyQSy7nvhmZnGuw

How can he think of a football game at a time like this?

Football has been almost his entire life.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

omg

Doctors said after Damar Hamlin awakened last night, he asked in writing who won the game. Doctors told him: “Yes, you won. You’ve won the game of life.”

https://twitter.com/adamschefter/status/1611073629705408513?s=46&t=COaF-TqxyQSy7nvhmZnGuw

How can he think of a football game at a time like this?

I am not in healthcare, but I would guess his last memory was tackling Higgins. As soon as he was awake, he didn't realize where he was, how long he was under, and just continued his thought process from what he last remembered.

i would be amazed if he remembers making that tackle.

i'm honestly shocked he remembered he was in a football game.

It’s a great sign.

 

[dgreen]

omg

Doctors said after Damar Hamlin awakened last night, he asked in writing who won the game. Doctors told him: “Yes, you won. You’ve won the game of life.”

https://twitter.com/adamschefter/status/1611073629705408513?s=46&t=COaF-TqxyQSy7nvhmZnGuw

How can he think of a football game at a time like this?

As the kids say, these guys are "built different".

 

[themeistersinger]

omg

Doctors said after Damar Hamlin awakened last night, he asked in writing who won the game. Doctors told him: “Yes, you won. You’ve won the game of life.”

https://twitter.com/adamschefter/status/1611073629705408513?s=46&t=COaF-TqxyQSy7nvhmZnGuw

How can he think of a football game at a time like this?

He probably assumed he was concussed and of course they would just keep going. He obviously would not have known how much time had passed.

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

omg

Doctors said after Damar Hamlin awakened last night, he asked in writing who won the game. Doctors told him: “Yes, you won. You’ve won the game of life.”

https://twitter.com/adamschefter/status/1611073629705408513?s=46&t=COaF-TqxyQSy7nvhmZnGuw

How can he think of a football game at a time like this?

Football has been almost his entire life.

Fun fact: Tom Brady has now been in the NFL for more of his life than he hasn't.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I like to think that if I were in the situation, I would have the wits to follow up with "I know I'm alive -- I was asking the Bengals game."

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

I like to think that if I were in the situation, I would have the wits to follow up with "I know I'm alive -- I was asking the Bengals game."

Or "I know I'm alive -- I was asking about the game we just played against the Oilers."

 

[culdeus]

Modern medicine > you

 

[psychobillies]

omg

Doctors said after Damar Hamlin awakened last night, he asked in writing who won the game. Doctors told him: “Yes, you won. You’ve won the game of life.”

https://twitter.com/adamschefter/status/1611073629705408513?s=46&t=COaF-TqxyQSy7nvhmZnGuw

How can he think of a football game at a time like this?

I am not in healthcare, but I would guess his last memory was tackling Higgins. As soon as he was awake, he didn't realize where he was, how long he was under, and just continued his thought process from what he last remembered.

I was being sarcastic.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

https://twitter.com/omarjimenez/status/1611031428518580225?s=46&t=COaF-TqxyQSy7nvhmZnGuw

Damar Hamlin is awake and has been holding hands with family in the hospital, his agent tells CNN.

 

[-OZ-]

https://twitter.com/omarjimenez/status/1611031428518580225?s=46&t=COaF-TqxyQSy7nvhmZnGuw

Damar Hamlin is awake and has been holding hands with family in the hospital, his agent tells CNN.

“He’s communicating and asked who won”

Lots of love for the guy.

 

[Rubi]

https://twitter.com/omarjimenez/status/1611031428518580225?s=46&t=COaF-TqxyQSy7nvhmZnGuw

Damar Hamlin is awake and has been holding hands with family in the hospital, his agent tells CNN.

“He’s communicating and asked who won”

Lots of love for the guy.

To quote my favorite color commentator "Awesome Baby!"

 

[renesauz]

Hate to say this...but I can't and won't trust statements from family members saying he's improving. There have been ZERO specifics on how. (Sorry, lowering oxygen on the vent from 100 to 50 is NOT a real improvement) The rookie in the article above talks about "I know he could hear me".

I have seen/treated/dealt with several hundred significant cardiac arrests and their families. Families, especially those with zero medical experience and/or lower levels of education, will often grab hold of any insignificant little positive thing and claim progress from it. The patient wasn't moving at all yesterday and today he's moving...that progress! Even after you explain that the movement is consistent with anoxic jerking, or posturing, and actually is a bad sign they'll refuse to believe...choosing instead that the patient hears them and is simply reacting to their voice...it's not posturing, he's holding my hand (btw....grasping a hand is a basic reflex that infants do from birth...LETTING GO when asked to is the real progress.)

Families making overly generic statements of "progress" are inherently untrustworthy to me. If he's not waking up and making PURPOSEFUL movements, not recognizing folks by later today or early tomorrow...there's a significant chance he won't ever.

While I see this post has been quoted a bunch of times, I haven't yet read those responses. I woke up to that press conference starting, and was, like most, very happy to hear that the families reports of significant progress were in fact accurate. If this specific post came across as overly pessimistic it wasn't meant to be re. Hamlin specifically. had a difficult time last night with a very unrealistic family. It is one of the greatest frustrations of critical care RNs and providers everywhere that for every life we save, there are two deaths we prolong...sometimes by days/weeks....even months, and often with additional suffering for all including the RNs trying to provide care. Our nations insistence on having family make decisions they are simply in no mental/emotional/educational position to make is....frustrating to say the least.
Some interesting things I noted: he had a pulse initially. The cpr was only one round.

I'll go back and read the responses, but while they would certainly not promise a 100% recovery...this is more likely then not given what they DID say. Whether he can return to football will ultimately depend on the exact cause of his arrest (IE; some defect or the rare comiodio cordis (Sp?)

 

[renesauz]

... it's not posturing, he's holding my hand (btw....grasping a hand is a basic reflex that infants do from birth...LETTING GO when asked to is the real progress ...

@renesauz and @growlers , @Terminalxylem , and anyone else who might know:

This hasn't been reported yet, but with his eyes now open, Hamlin's caregivers and family might start noticing him tracking people in the room with his eyes. Would this be a meaningful development? Or does it have to be done on command (e.g. 'follow this light')?

a but late (sorry I have to sleep sometimes ) but yes...tracking is a big thing we look for. We ask for things like SQUEEZE my hand, look at me, wiggle your toes. Tracking is nice but a neuro devestated person will look to sound or movement sometimes. It means some awareness, but not by itself understanding

 

[renesauz]

... it's not posturing, he's holding my hand (btw....grasping a hand is a basic reflex that infants do from birth...LETTING GO when asked to is the real progress ...

@renesauz and @growlers , @Terminalxylem , and anyone else who might know:

This hasn't been reported yet, but with his eyes now open, Hamlin's caregivers and family might start noticing him tracking people in the room with his eyes. Would this be a meaningful development? Or does it have to be done on command (e.g. 'follow this light')?

I'm a Hospitalist at a fairly large community hospital that doesn't have dedicated Critical Care physicians. We are almost always the primary attendings on patients with Cardiac arrest--unless it's from a massive heart attack.

If you think about all that is involved in the ability to follow a command.

You have to hear it. You have to understand it. You have to tell your hand to do something. Your hand has to actually do it.
He's probably looking at them already.

Neurologically, they're probably about ready to try him off of the ventilator. Not clear what the "lung damage" was. Maybe that was clarified in a report that I missed. Hopefully we'll hear more massively positive updates through the weekend.

The doctor said he went into ARDS. Unclear to me why that would happen but it was apparently relatively breif if his settings are down and they are waking him up and communicating. Unusual for this type of arrest but not unheard of

 

[renesauz]

Apparently, one of the options the league is considering would be to randomly select a KC game that would be "removed" from their 2022 season should we get to the point where the BUF-CIN game is not completed. That way, should it come down to trying to determine seeding for the top 3 seeds, they would then compare the records and tiebreakers as if the BUF-CIN never happened and one of the Chiefs games would also be considered to have never happened (but only for the purposes of seeding . . . all the stats from the game would still count). That way, all three teams would be evaluated on having each played 16 games. Depending upon which game was randomly selected for the Chiefs, it could make quite a bit of difference. Based on the description I read, it sounded like any of the 17 games on the Chiefs schedule could be dropped (which would include their losses to the Bills and Bengals). This certainly would be an outcome that has not been discussed in here so far.

imo, I can't see them randomly throwing out a game or doing a coin flip or doing ping pong balls.

all of those would be made up on the spot, and they would have to get buy-in from all 32 clubs.

they are well within the current rules to declare a "no contest" and then go by win percentage.

that's why i still think that's the most likely outcome.

but it is the NFL and sometimes they just make stuff up.

If this were Colts-Texans, would we be discussing making the game up? What if it were Bills-Texans? What if it were two teams that each had like a 1% chance of making the playoffs?

I know that MLB does the thing where they only make up late-season rainouts if the game will impact the standings. And I get that this is an extraordinary situation, so it may require some sort of ad hoc solution. But I think it is in the league's long-term interest in having a "clean" resolution that does not set a disruptive precedent the next time something like this happens. Since one is available in this situation, I think they should take advantage of it.

One thing I will say: While I don't support blowing up the playoff schedule, if they do decide to move forward with it, the fairest alternative I've heard is the one where Week 18 proceeds regularly, Week 19 is Bills-Bengals + NFC wildcard (with the other AFC playoff teams on bye), Week 20 is AFC wildcard/NFC on bye, and then on to championship games and Super Bowl, with no bye week in between. There are still elements of unfairness there; the Eagles and potentially Chiefs could get two consecutive bye weeks, which might be a good or a bad thing (rust vs. rest). And the benefit of the bye for the No. 1 seed is lessened when other teams get one, too. But at least it doesn't tip the competitive balance within a conference.

It's been all over sports talk that a lot of things led to heightened awareness of the on-field incident and the subsequent rallying around the players and teams afterwards. If the same thing happened on a 1:00 PM Sunday game between the Colts and Texans, not many people would have seen it play out live, the game would likely stand no chance to be rescheduled, and the only thing impacted would be the draft order for next year. It would still have been a shocking development, but it would not have been national front-page news, nor would the league have tried to figure out how to handle things so delicately for the remainder of the week. Some people even wondered if they would have stopped the game or if they would have just finished up then and there. I can't speak to that, but it's an interesting question. If it wasn't such an important game, the only one being broadcast at the time, in primetime, to a national audience, it probably would not have received the attention it got. It would have been just as tragic, but it may not have had the same impact.

@IvanKaramazov and myself were discussing this yesterday and I felt awkward asking the question at the time but I agree 100%, no way a 1:00 Sunday game between a couple of non factor teams would have been brushed under the rug a bit and we wouldn't have multiple discussions going on.

I guess that might be the positive part of this if there is one, player safety for at least 1 week went to the front of the discussions around the country. Will anything actually change? Not sure but it appears like the NFL is going to come out smelling like a rose because it put their first responders in the stadium on full display and I think most feel they were superheroes

They saved a man's life, were able to resuscitate him not once but perhaps twice on the field, rushed to a University Hospital with cutting edge technology, the NFL is under a microscope on this stuff and so far it looks like they are doing about as well as anyone could hope in terms of providing medical care.

But yeah, 1:00 game Sunday we are not this deep in discussion about a variety of things related to the Damar Hamlin injury.

I think it's important to note that this wasn't truly a player safety event....not in any anti-NFL way anyway. Nobody could be blamed if it was a undiagnosed heart condition, and the common assumption (cormodio cordis) is exceedingly rare and absolutely not something that could be prevented by any protocols. What I do see is the NFL has what most (last week) would have considered an excessive amount of critical care capacity at an NFL game. A defibrillator and folks well trained in CPR makes sense...but three more ER docs AND the neuro guy from a local hospital? TBH...still seems excessive. Half those people would have probably achieved the same end result. regardless...having folks like this available on the field is a huge KUDOS to the NFL...not the opposite. It seems many constantly want to drag the NFL through the mud re. player safety. It's not just unwarranted in this case but they deserve praise.

 

[jm192]

... it's not posturing, he's holding my hand (btw....grasping a hand is a basic reflex that infants do from birth...LETTING GO when asked to is the real progress ...

@renesauz and @growlers , @Terminalxylem , and anyone else who might know:

This hasn't been reported yet, but with his eyes now open, Hamlin's caregivers and family might start noticing him tracking people in the room with his eyes. Would this be a meaningful development? Or does it have to be done on command (e.g. 'follow this light')?

I'm a Hospitalist at a fairly large community hospital that doesn't have dedicated Critical Care physicians. We are almost always the primary attendings on patients with Cardiac arrest--unless it's from a massive heart attack.

If you think about all that is involved in the ability to follow a command.

You have to hear it. You have to understand it. You have to tell your hand to do something. Your hand has to actually do it.
He's probably looking at them already.

Neurologically, they're probably about ready to try him off of the ventilator. Not clear what the "lung damage" was. Maybe that was clarified in a report that I missed. Hopefully we'll hear more massively positive updates through the weekend.

The doctor said he went into ARDS. Unclear to me why that would happen but it was apparently relatively breif if his settings are down and they are waking him up and communicating. Unusual for this type of arrest but not unheard of

Ahh. The "proning" talk makes sense then.

Someone said they heard that but I never saw it anywhere so wasn't sure if that was just rumor.

 

[renesauz]

This is still too early to tell. I friend of mine had a cardiac arrest and was in pretty much the same situation for weeks. At times he would grab his wife`s hand or eyes would open and close and they would get excited, but he was far from out of the woods.

This makes me curious as to what actions would be seen as signs that Hamlin is "out of the woods" (not to say 100% back to normal). Does it have to get to the point where he's able to get out of bed and walk around under his own power, or is there something that would be seen as "out of the woods" even if he were still bed-bound?

In these situations, I am not sure. I would think when the medical staff announces they are happy with the way things are trending.

Some of the medical folks in this thread might be able to share their opinions. Maybe it's things like holding conversations (even if haltingly), drinking/eating (generally, swallowing safely and un-aided), or things like that.

While still intubated....it's obvious awareness of surroundings, a clear desire to try to communicate, ability to move and control all limbs (even if weakly) and following simple commands.
Immediately post extubation, it's a more thorough assessment of full orientation, able to safely swallow, some improvement in strength. Able to get OOB and walk will depend on factors such as length of being intubated, amount and type of of medications given and being given. Some people require significant rehab after an event like this. In Hamlins case, he wasn't actually out of it that long, and he's starting without weakness/comorbidities. I would expect him out of bed and walking around within a day or two of getting extubated....but that's merely a qualified guess from here.

 

[eoMMan]

omg

Doctors said after Damar Hamlin awakened last night, he asked in writing who won the game. Doctors told him: “Yes, you won. You’ve won the game of life.”

https://twitter.com/adamschefter/status/1611073629705408513?s=46&t=COaF-TqxyQSy7nvhmZnGuw

How can he think of a football game at a time like this?

As the kids say, these guys are "built different".

Sounds like he would want the game played.
Are you reading this, Goodell?

 

[growlers]

Apparently, one of the options the league is considering would be to randomly select a KC game that would be "removed" from their 2022 season should we get to the point where the BUF-CIN game is not completed. That way, should it come down to trying to determine seeding for the top 3 seeds, they would then compare the records and tiebreakers as if the BUF-CIN never happened and one of the Chiefs games would also be considered to have never happened (but only for the purposes of seeding . . . all the stats from the game would still count). That way, all three teams would be evaluated on having each played 16 games. Depending upon which game was randomly selected for the Chiefs, it could make quite a bit of difference. Based on the description I read, it sounded like any of the 17 games on the Chiefs schedule could be dropped (which would include their losses to the Bills and Bengals). This certainly would be an outcome that has not been discussed in here so far.

imo, I can't see them randomly throwing out a game or doing a coin flip or doing ping pong balls.

all of those would be made up on the spot, and they would have to get buy-in from all 32 clubs.

they are well within the current rules to declare a "no contest" and then go by win percentage.

that's why i still think that's the most likely outcome.

but it is the NFL and sometimes they just make stuff up.

If this were Colts-Texans, would we be discussing making the game up? What if it were Bills-Texans? What if it were two teams that each had like a 1% chance of making the playoffs?

I know that MLB does the thing where they only make up late-season rainouts if the game will impact the standings. And I get that this is an extraordinary situation, so it may require some sort of ad hoc solution. But I think it is in the league's long-term interest in having a "clean" resolution that does not set a disruptive precedent the next time something like this happens. Since one is available in this situation, I think they should take advantage of it.

One thing I will say: While I don't support blowing up the playoff schedule, if they do decide to move forward with it, the fairest alternative I've heard is the one where Week 18 proceeds regularly, Week 19 is Bills-Bengals + NFC wildcard (with the other AFC playoff teams on bye), Week 20 is AFC wildcard/NFC on bye, and then on to championship games and Super Bowl, with no bye week in between. There are still elements of unfairness there; the Eagles and potentially Chiefs could get two consecutive bye weeks, which might be a good or a bad thing (rust vs. rest). And the benefit of the bye for the No. 1 seed is lessened when other teams get one, too. But at least it doesn't tip the competitive balance within a conference.

It's been all over sports talk that a lot of things led to heightened awareness of the on-field incident and the subsequent rallying around the players and teams afterwards. If the same thing happened on a 1:00 PM Sunday game between the Colts and Texans, not many people would have seen it play out live, the game would likely stand no chance to be rescheduled, and the only thing impacted would be the draft order for next year. It would still have been a shocking development, but it would not have been national front-page news, nor would the league have tried to figure out how to handle things so delicately for the remainder of the week. Some people even wondered if they would have stopped the game or if they would have just finished up then and there. I can't speak to that, but it's an interesting question. If it wasn't such an important game, the only one being broadcast at the time, in primetime, to a national audience, it probably would not have received the attention it got. It would have been just as tragic, but it may not have had the same impact.

@IvanKaramazov and myself were discussing this yesterday and I felt awkward asking the question at the time but I agree 100%, no way a 1:00 Sunday game between a couple of non factor teams would have been brushed under the rug a bit and we wouldn't have multiple discussions going on.

I guess that might be the positive part of this if there is one, player safety for at least 1 week went to the front of the discussions around the country. Will anything actually change? Not sure but it appears like the NFL is going to come out smelling like a rose because it put their first responders in the stadium on full display and I think most feel they were superheroes

They saved a man's life, were able to resuscitate him not once but perhaps twice on the field, rushed to a University Hospital with cutting edge technology, the NFL is under a microscope on this stuff and so far it looks like they are doing about as well as anyone could hope in terms of providing medical care.

But yeah, 1:00 game Sunday we are not this deep in discussion about a variety of things related to the Damar Hamlin injury.

I think it's important to note that this wasn't truly a player safety event....not in any anti-NFL way anyway. Nobody could be blamed if it was a undiagnosed heart condition, and the common assumption (cormodio cordis) is exceedingly rare and absolutely not something that could be prevented by any protocols. What I do see is the NFL has what most (last week) would have considered an excessive amount of critical care capacity at an NFL game. A defibrillator and folks well trained in CPR makes sense...but three more ER docs AND the neuro guy from a local hospital? TBH...still seems excessive. Half those people would have probably achieved the same end result. regardless...having folks like this available on the field is a huge KUDOS to the NFL...not the opposite. It seems many constantly want to drag the NFL through the mud re. player safety. It's not just unwarranted in this case but they deserve praise.

On the field from the NFL:
There is a home UNC doc
Visitor UNC doc
Airway/critical care doc
Visiting team medical liaison doc
usually two EMS teams of 2-3 medics with one ambulance
there is also a UNC doc in the booth with 2 AT spotters to watch the feeds in real time and call down to field if necessary to pull a player

Any other medical staff is employed by each team including trainers, and at least 3 docs on the sideline, sometimes more

Airway doc is in completely in charge in this situation, it's all in the protocols we train in

 

[renesauz]

... it's not posturing, he's holding my hand (btw....grasping a hand is a basic reflex that infants do from birth...LETTING GO when asked to is the real progress ...

@renesauz and @growlers , @Terminalxylem , and anyone else who might know:

This hasn't been reported yet, but with his eyes now open, Hamlin's caregivers and family might start noticing him tracking people in the room with his eyes. Would this be a meaningful development? Or does it have to be done on command (e.g. 'follow this light')?

Good news, but still doesn’t preclude some degree of anoxic brain injury.

which could still lead to any number of neurological symptoms, correct?

could you give some common examples?

Slowed thinking. Coordination issues. Swallowing issues (swallowing is a lot more complicated then you think!) Memory issues.

Most of these things are difficult to assess while still intubated, and some of them can/will improve with time. All things considered, he's exactly where you would want to see and ON THE TRACK you'd expect if you're going to have a full recovery. AT the very least their report suggest he will at a minimum have a MEANINGFUL recovery

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

... it's not posturing, he's holding my hand (btw....grasping a hand is a basic reflex that infants do from birth...LETTING GO when asked to is the real progress ...

@renesauz and @growlers , @Terminalxylem , and anyone else who might know:

This hasn't been reported yet, but with his eyes now open, Hamlin's caregivers and family might start noticing him tracking people in the room with his eyes. Would this be a meaningful development? Or does it have to be done on command (e.g. 'follow this light')?

Good news, but still doesn’t preclude some degree of anoxic brain injury.

which could still lead to any number of neurological symptoms, correct?

could you give some common examples?

Slowed thinking. Coordination issues. Swallowing issues (swallowing is a lot more complicated then you think!) Memory issues.

Most of these things are difficult to assess while still intubated, and some of them can/will improve with time. All things considered, he's exactly where you would want to see and ON THE TRACK you'd expect if you're going to have a full recovery. AT the very least their report suggest he will at a minimum have a MEANINGFUL recovery

I know you've heard this, but I want to thank you for your reasoned and knowledgeable responses. They've been very helpful.

 

[renesauz]

... it's not posturing, he's holding my hand (btw....grasping a hand is a basic reflex that infants do from birth...LETTING GO when asked to is the real progress ...

@renesauz and @growlers , @Terminalxylem , and anyone else who might know:

This hasn't been reported yet, but with his eyes now open, Hamlin's caregivers and family might start noticing him tracking people in the room with his eyes. Would this be a meaningful development? Or does it have to be done on command (e.g. 'follow this light')?

I'm a Hospitalist at a fairly large community hospital that doesn't have dedicated Critical Care physicians. We are almost always the primary attendings on patients with Cardiac arrest--unless it's from a massive heart attack.

If you think about all that is involved in the ability to follow a command.

You have to hear it. You have to understand it. You have to tell your hand to do something. Your hand has to actually do it.
He's probably looking at them already.

Neurologically, they're probably about ready to try him off of the ventilator. Not clear what the "lung damage" was. Maybe that was clarified in a report that I missed. Hopefully we'll hear more massively positive updates through the weekend.

The doctor said he went into ARDS. Unclear to me why that would happen but it was apparently relatively breif if his settings are down and they are waking him up and communicating. Unusual for this type of arrest but not unheard of

Ahh. The "proning" talk makes sense then.

Someone said they heard that but I never saw it anywhere so wasn't sure if that was just rumor.

They did admit to it in the presser. Would also explain why it took a little longer then I would have hoped for a good update. We don't attempt significant awakening/neuro assessment when you've got somebody proned on high vent settings

 

[renesauz]

... it's not posturing, he's holding my hand (btw....grasping a hand is a basic reflex that infants do from birth...LETTING GO when asked to is the real progress ...

@renesauz and @growlers , @Terminalxylem , and anyone else who might know:

This hasn't been reported yet, but with his eyes now open, Hamlin's caregivers and family might start noticing him tracking people in the room with his eyes. Would this be a meaningful development? Or does it have to be done on command (e.g. 'follow this light')?

Good news, but still doesn’t preclude some degree of anoxic brain injury.

which could still lead to any number of neurological symptoms, correct?

could you give some common examples?

Slowed thinking. Coordination issues. Swallowing issues (swallowing is a lot more complicated then you think!) Memory issues.

Most of these things are difficult to assess while still intubated, and some of them can/will improve with time. All things considered, he's exactly where you would want to see and ON THE TRACK you'd expect if you're going to have a full recovery. AT the very least their report suggest he will at a minimum have a MEANINGFUL recovery

I know you've heard this, but I want to thank you for your reasoned and knowledgeable responses. They've been very helpful.

This is, quite literally, what I do every day.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

... it's not posturing, he's holding my hand (btw....grasping a hand is a basic reflex that infants do from birth...LETTING GO when asked to is the real progress ...

@renesauz and @growlers , @Terminalxylem , and anyone else who might know:

This hasn't been reported yet, but with his eyes now open, Hamlin's caregivers and family might start noticing him tracking people in the room with his eyes. Would this be a meaningful development? Or does it have to be done on command (e.g. 'follow this light')?

Good news, but still doesn’t preclude some degree of anoxic brain injury.

which could still lead to any number of neurological symptoms, correct?

could you give some common examples?

Slowed thinking. Coordination issues. Swallowing issues (swallowing is a lot more complicated then you think!) Memory issues.

Most of these things are difficult to assess while still intubated, and some of them can/will improve with time. All things considered, he's exactly where you would want to see and ON THE TRACK you'd expect if you're going to have a full recovery. AT the very least their report suggest he will at a minimum have a MEANINGFUL recovery

I know you've heard this, but I want to thank you for your reasoned and knowledgeable responses. They've been very helpful.

This is, quite literally, what I do every day.

Sure, but taking the time to post here regularly, and not only offer your opinion on what you see, but help us interpret what we're hearing in the media, is valuable, and you don't have to do it. So thanks.

 

[BobbyLayne]

You won the game of life

(sorry if Honda)

great to hear positive news - thrilled for Hammin’s family

God is good

 

[Wingnut]

In case it hasnt been posted yet, the game will not be resumed.

BREAKING: NFL Will Not Resume Bills-Bengals Game

During the unprecedented time that is the Damar Hamlin situation, the NFL has chosen to not continue the Bills-Bengals game. The pivotal Week 17 game was suspended in the first quarter Monday night when Damar Hamlin, now a household name, suffered a cardiac arrest on the field, having to be...

dailysnark.com

 

[Pigskin Fanatic]

In case it hasnt been posted yet, the game will not be resumed.

BREAKING: NFL Will Not Resume Bills-Bengals Game

During the unprecedented time that is the Damar Hamlin situation, the NFL has chosen to not continue the Bills-Bengals game. The pivotal Week 17 game was suspended in the first quarter Monday night when Damar Hamlin, now a household name, suffered a cardiac arrest on the field, having to be...

dailysnark.com

sorry if it's obvious, this means it will also not be rescheduled, correct?

 

[ComfortablyNumb]

If the Bills and Chiefs play for the AFC Championship, it could be played in a neutral stadium to avoid punishing the Bills for last night's game.

I’m not sure that “we shouldn’t punish the Bills, so let’s punish the Chiefs” is a reasonable alternative unfortunately.

The Chiefs would already have the unearned benefit of the first round bye and they certainly shouldn't also get the unearned benefit of the home championship game.

 

[ghostguy123]

If the Bills and Chiefs play for the AFC Championship, it could be played in a neutral stadium to avoid punishing the Bills for last night's game.

I’m not sure that “we shouldn’t punish the Bills, so let’s punish the Chiefs” is a reasonable alternative unfortunately.

The Chiefs would already have the unearned benefit of the first round bye and they certainly shouldn't also get the unearned benefit of the home championship game.

Unearned?

 

[BroncoFreak_2K3]

Not to take a big sidebar, but Bill Belicheck today remembered a 1997 game in which he was coaching with the Jets where DET LB Reggie Brown required on-field CPR. Does anyone remember that?
Here's the play. Here's an article.

My wife and I and my buddy and his wife were at that game. I'll never forget how quiet a stadium crowd of that size could be so quiet. It was wild.

Curious as to whether you remember how things played out? 10-minute delay then back to live action? 30-minute delay and a 5-minute warm up session? Just curious how things went 25 years ago vs. how things were handled in the BUF-CIN game. It might not have been quite as serious for Brown (ie, may not have required 10 minutes of CPR), so may not be apples-to-apples.

If I remember correctly, it was a fairly long process caring for RB on the field. The ambulance I remember came out of the tunnel in rather quick fashion but it took a while to load him and slowly make their way out of the tunnel. I believe there was a period of time either while they we working on him or shortly thereafter where the teams exited the field for a while and then came back and the game resumed.