Bush or LT #1 overall next year? (1 Viewer)

[Keys Myaths]

tx, keith

Keith?

 

[Marc Levin]

tx, keith

Keith?

 

[Keys Myaths]

Simply put, it is not realiastic for Bush to be the #1 overall scorer in FF in 2006 - no matter what you think of his "skill" and there is noone with a higher opinion of his skill than me.

Actually, I partly disagree with this. If Bush were to get in an environment that might support elite fantasy RB production (that albeit is very unlikely) OR on a team that will give him the ball 400 times (again unlikely), it's not out of the question that Bush COULD be the #1 overall RB.HOWEVER . . .

The foolish part is DRAFTING him as if that is a given and a likely outcome. The risks and the probability make investing a top fantasy draft pick on Bush a poor decision.

Could it happen? It's happen at least 4 times in the past 25 years. Will it happen? I doubt it, but someone at some point is going to have to jump in and take Bush--it's just a question as to who will blink first.

I've seen people draft Michael Vick first overall, and I must say I'd rather take Bush first than Vick.

well, David - now we are into semantics since I said it is not "realistic." Your example above is in the realm of "possible" - not "realistic."

My point was that even if Bush were to wind up as the #1 RB, he's not worth the risk of taking him #1 overall (or near the top of the first round).But I do think Bush, even without playing a down, has a better chance at being the #1 back than a lot of other RB, and that in and of itself will drive his draft position up.

I am by no means a Bush backer, but he could have more upside than half the league's starting RBs if his NFL team is committed to giving him the ball A LOT from Day 1.

And its not out of the realm of possibilty (again semantics here) that a decent team could try to trade up to get him . . . (NE? SEA? IND? GB? CAR?)

My only problem with this is the fact that Reggie Bush *screams* goalline vulture his first year. Top 5 FF backs *generally* have to get goalline carries to get there, in order to score those 1-3 yard, 6 point touchdowns.I don't see him as having a prayer to be the #1 FF back unless he gets those goalline carries.

 

[Keys Myaths]

tx, keith

Keith?

 

[Banger]

About all I can say is that if someone in one of my leagues (except dynasty) takes Bush #1 I hope I am in their division so I get to play him twice.

ditto and I hope I have the #2 pick.

I think the top 3 RBs next year are all very similar.

I'd agree with that assuming Priest is done...

 

[Marc Levin]

tx, keith

Keith?

 

[Keys Myaths]

About all I can say is that if someone in one of my leagues (except dynasty) takes Bush #1 I hope I am in their division so I get to play him twice.

ditto and I hope I have the #2 pick.

I think the top 3 RBs next year are all very similar.

I'd agree with that assuming Priest is done...

Obviously. Plus, the line/Vermeil have to return as well. But, I think that has a better than 50% chance of happening.

 

[Marc Levin]

About all I can say is that if someone in one of my leagues (except dynasty) takes Bush #1 I hope I am in their division so I get to play him twice.

ditto and I hope I have the #2 pick.

I think the top 3 RBs next year are all very similar.

I'd agree with that assuming Priest is done...

Obviously. Plus, the line/Vermeil have to return as well. But, I think that has a better than 50% chance of happening.

Line, yes.Vermeil? No.

And i think Vermeil and Priest both retire.

 

[stevec]

Edge didn't go #1 overall in that draft. I think it went:CouchMcNabbSmithEdgeWilliamsHolt

 

[David Yudkin]

Edge didn't go #1 overall in that draft. I think it went:

Couch

McNabb

Smith

Edge

Williams

Holt

1999 1 Tim Couch Browns QB Kentucky

2 Donovan McNabb Eagles QB Syracuse

3 Akili Smith Bengals QB Oregon

4 Edgerrin James Colts RB Miami (FL)

5 Ricky Williams Saints RB Texas

6 Torry Holt Rams WR North Carolina State

7 Champ Bailey Redskins DB Georgia

8 David Boston Cardinals WR Ohio State

9 Chris Claiborne Lions LB USC

10 Chris McAlister Ravens DB Arizona

11 Daunte Culpepper Vikings QB Central Florida

12 Cade McNown Bears QB UCLA

13 Troy Edwards Steelers WR Louisiana Tech

14 John Tait Chiefs T Brigham Young

15 Anthony McFarland Buccaneers DT Louisiana State

16 Jevon Kearse Oilers LB Florida

17 Damien Woody Patriots C Boston College

18 Matt Stinchcomb Raiders T Georgia

19 Luke Petitgout Giants T Notre Dame

20 Ebenezer Ekuban Cowboys DE North Carolina

21 L.J. Shelton Cardinals T Eastern Michigan

22 Lamar King Seahawks DE Saginaw Valley State

23 Antoine Winfield Bills DB Ohio State

24 Reggie McGrew 49ers DT Florida

25 Antwan Edwards Packers DB Clemson

26 Fernando Bryant Jaguars DB Alabama

27 Aaron Gibson Lions T Wisconsin

28 Andy Katzenmoyer Patriots LB Ohio State

29 Dimitrius Underwood Vikings DE Michigan State

30 Patrick Kerney Falcons DE Virginia

31 Al Wilson Broncos LB Tennessee

 

[Mr. Vegas]

Put this nonsense to an end please.

just because someone's opinion doesn't jive with yours doesn't mean that the topic should be locked.brass sack is bringing some interesting points to the table, albeit contrarian and unlikely.

Vote up to this post is:LT [ 260 ] [85.81%]

Bush [ 41 ] [13.53%]

So 41 people either have no clue,or are clueless.

 

[Mr. Vegas]

Instead of trend question:Bush or LT #1 overall next year?, PPR leagueBetter question would be do you draft Bush in 1st round 12 team League?Not do you draft Him first overall.

 

[Keys Myaths]

Instead of trend question:

Bush or LT #1 overall next year?, PPR league

Better question would be do you draft Bush in 1st round 12 team League?

Not do you draft Him first overall.

From the first page, got buried in this mess:If you look at points per game *this* year...the first five next year are pretty obvious. You go LT/LJ/SA (whatever order they go in), then Edge, and then Lamont Jordan.

But after that, what do you do? Everyone else in the top 10 has a problem.

Tiki Barber: Would be *my* #6, but will be 31.5 next year, and there's a goalline vulture.

Priest Holmes: Obviously, if LJ is the starter, his value plummets.

Domanick Davis: Might lose his job to Reggie Bush.

Sam Gado: Might not have a job next year

Rudi Johnson: Perry gets more and more of his carries next year?



Here's the argument that can be made for Bush at #6 overall (assuming he goes to Houston):

1) Domanick Davis is the #7 RB in PPG, if you take away Priest Holmes already. Bush could be than Davis, so he could quite possibly be #6.

2) There's too many question marks with the RBs above.

3) The Houston system is built for Bush. It's a run first, run second, dump off to RB third system, and that's why DD has succeeded. Imagine a stud RB in that backfield...with possible improvements at OL by trading Domanick.

Should he go 6th? Probably not. Will he? I would say most likely.

 

[Mr. Vegas]

Instead of trend question:

Bush or LT #1 overall next year?, PPR league

Better question would be do you draft Bush in 1st round 12 team League?

Not do you draft Him first overall.

From the first page, got buried in this mess:If you look at points per game *this* year...the first five next year are pretty obvious. You go LT/LJ/SA (whatever order they go in), then Edge, and then Lamont Jordan.

But after that, what do you do? Everyone else in the top 10 has a problem.

Tiki Barber: Would be *my* #6, but will be 31.5 next year, and there's a goalline vulture.

Priest Holmes: Obviously, if LJ is the starter, his value plummets.

Domanick Davis: Might lose his job to Reggie Bush.

Sam Gado: Might not have a job next year

Rudi Johnson: Perry gets more and more of his carries next year?



Here's the argument that can be made for Bush at #6 overall (assuming he goes to Houston):

1) Domanick Davis is the #7 RB in PPG, if you take away Priest Holmes already. Bush could be than Davis, so he could quite possibly be #6.

2) There's too many question marks with the RBs above.

3) The Houston system is built for Bush. It's a run first, run second, dump off to RB third system, and that's why DD has succeeded. Imagine a stud RB in that backfield...with possible improvements at OL by trading Domanick.

Should he go 6th? Probably not. Will he? I would say most likely.

Here's the problems with this post:1. Bush has to come out.

2. No one knows where He's going.

3. Domanick Davis: Might lose his job to Reggie Bush.

Might.

I'm done.

Have to add one more.

The trend says Bush over LT. Please.

 

[Keys Myaths]

Instead of trend question:

Bush or LT #1 overall next year?, PPR league

Better question would be do you draft Bush in 1st round 12 team League?

Not do you draft Him first overall.

From the first page, got buried in this mess:If you look at points per game *this* year...the first five next year are pretty obvious. You go LT/LJ/SA (whatever order they go in), then Edge, and then Lamont Jordan.

But after that, what do you do? Everyone else in the top 10 has a problem.

Tiki Barber: Would be *my* #6, but will be 31.5 next year, and there's a goalline vulture.

Priest Holmes: Obviously, if LJ is the starter, his value plummets.

Domanick Davis: Might lose his job to Reggie Bush.

Sam Gado: Might not have a job next year

Rudi Johnson: Perry gets more and more of his carries next year?



Here's the argument that can be made for Bush at #6 overall (assuming he goes to Houston):

1) Domanick Davis is the #7 RB in PPG, if you take away Priest Holmes already. Bush could be than Davis, so he could quite possibly be #6.

2) There's too many question marks with the RBs above.

3) The Houston system is built for Bush. It's a run first, run second, dump off to RB third system, and that's why DD has succeeded. Imagine a stud RB in that backfield...with possible improvements at OL by trading Domanick.

Should he go 6th? Probably not. Will he? I would say most likely.

Here's the problems with this post:1. Bush has to come out.

2. No one knows where He's going.

3. Domanick Davis: Might lose his job to Reggie Bush.

Might.

I'm done.

Have to add one more.

The trend says Bush over LT. Please.

Those aren't problems with the post, those are assumptions I have to make in order to make the post. We'll know all three before redrafts begin.

 

[Marc Levin]

1. Bush has to come out.

2. No one knows where He's going.

3. Domanick Davis: Might lose his job to Reggie Bush.

Might.

I'm done.

Have to add one more.

The trend says Bush over LT. Please.

1) he's coming out - don't be stupid. Vince Young may be a slight quesiton mark (but he's coming out too) - Bush is two feet out the door, he just can't make any statemet or find an agent until after the Rose Bowl.2) Sack's thread OBVIOUSLY expects that you are to assume it doesn't matter WHERE he goes. He'll beat LT for the #1 overal spot, so he should be drafted above LT there.

3) if Bush is in Houston, DD will be either traded or coming off the bench.

 

[CalBear]

Note that we don't know what Houston's offense will be like next year; it is reasonable to expect that it won't be like it is this year, since the coaching staff will be completely different.

 

[valhallan]

I would think Houston is in a much better position to trade down this year than San Fran was last year, and given the wealth of holes the Texans have, I think they should consider moving the pick. Out of the teams likely to be in the top 10, I'd say SF, Arz, Phi, NO, and NYJ might be interested in swapping.

 

[Marc Levin]

I would think Houston is in a much better position to trade down this year than San Fran was last year, and given the wealth of holes the Texans have, I think they should consider moving the pick.  Out of the teams likely to be in the top 10, I'd say SF, Arz, Phi, NO, and NYJ might be interested in swapping.

Noone was willing to move up for ASmith - at least not at the previous year's price to move up for manning - but, LOADS of the teams slated to be at 3-6 will be willing and able to think about trading up for Bush.

 

[Challenge Everything]

Why is this even a debate. Bush at #1 would be a steal in any fantasy football league. Bank it.

 

[Mr. Vegas]

Why is this even a debate. Bush at #1 would be a steal in any fantasy football league. Bank it.

Over LT?

 

[DoctorDetroit]

Why is this even a debate. Bush at #1 would be a steal in any fantasy football league. Bank it.

or rookie. Either way this is an entertaining thread.

 

[Challenge Everything]

Why is this even a debate.  Bush at #1 would be a steal in any fantasy football league.  Bank it.

Over LT?

Over everybody. Bush >>>>>>>>> LT. Bank it.

 

[Unlucky]

I love this thread. Let me count the ways:1. People that post, "I want this guy in my league so I can win". Pointless post. I'll join your league, draft Bush #1 overall, and still win.2. All of the fishing icons. So what? Maybe he is, maybe not. Posting the fishing icon isn't adding to the debate. Good job, game warden. 3. Yudkin and Levin posting several irrelevant stats and lists. I love you guys. Nothing like a bunch of worthless historical performance benchmarks to spice up the debate. 4. People getting worked up over the number of people that voted for Bush. Do you REALLY think that many people actually would take Bush? If so, please join my league!

 

[Challenge Everything]

4. People getting worked up over the number of people that voted for Bush. Do you REALLY think that many people actually would take Bush? If so, please join my league!

What if 12 people got together to play in a league but they all wanted Bush? Then when he goes #1 and the others dont get him does the league disband?

 

[Mr. Vegas]

4. People getting worked up over the number of people that voted for Bush.  Do you REALLY think that many people actually would take Bush?  If so, please join my league!

What if 12 people got together to play in a league but they all wanted Bush? Then when he goes #1 and the others dont get him does the league disband?

I'm going to start a Dynasy League right now.You my friend have the #1 pick,you have to take Bush.

I pick second I'm taking LT.

I think you would drop out by week 4.

 

[jurb26]

Wow, I can't believe how bad some peoples reading comprehension skills are this time of year. I also can't believe I wasted the time to read the last 4 pages of this thread. News flash: Saying Bush has a legit shot at being the #1 RB next year in PPR leagues and saying you would draft him #1 overall are TOTALLY different things.

 

[AB in DC]

177 posts, and no one yet has mentioned just how bad Houston's offensive line is?

Shaun Alexander is great because he runs behind Walter Jones

Priest/LJ are great because they run behind Will Shields and Willie Roaf.

Edge runs behind Tarik Glenn, Jeff Saturday, etc.

Does Houston have anyone in the same galaxy as those guys?

I see a lot of runs for negative yardage for RBush next year.

 

[Mr. Vegas]

177 posts, and no one yet has mentioned just how bad Houston's offensive line is?

Shaun Alexander is great because he runs behind Walter Jones

Priest/LJ are great because they run behind Will Shields and Willie Roaf.

Edge runs behind Tarik Glenn, Jeff Saturday, etc.

Does Houston have anyone in the same galaxy as those guys?

I see a lot of runs for negative yardage for RBush next year.

I see a lot of runs for negative yardage for RBush next year.I think the 'Challenge Everything' of the world think if 5 guys form the shark pool were blocking for Bush,Bush would still get 2,000 yards and 30 TD's.

Bush needs no line.

 

[jurb26]

177 posts, and no one yet has mentioned just how bad Houston's offensive line is?

Shaun Alexander is great because he runs behind Walter Jones

Priest/LJ are great because they run behind Will Shields and Willie Roaf.

Edge runs behind Tarik Glenn, Jeff Saturday, etc.

Does Houston have anyone in the same galaxy as those guys?

I see a lot of runs for negative yardage for RBush next year.

The Houston line is only bad at PASS blocking. They are actually a good RUN blocking unit. Look at what DD has been able to do behind this awful Oline and then factor in the pass catching ops that he is also given there. Now factor how much better those numbers could be if Bush turns out to be as good a Pro as most think.Either way, if Houston doesn't do something via the draft and/or FA to sure up the line they should be kicked out of the NFL.

 

[Keys Myaths]

177 posts, and no one yet has mentioned just how bad Houston's offensive line is?

Shaun Alexander is great because he runs behind Walter Jones

Priest/LJ are great because they run behind Will Shields and Willie Roaf.

Edge runs behind Tarik Glenn, Jeff Saturday, etc.

Does Houston have anyone in the same galaxy as those guys?

I see a lot of runs for negative yardage for RBush next year.

The Houston line is only bad at PASS blocking. They are actually a good RUN blocking unit. Look at what DD has been able to do behind this awful Oline and then factor in the pass catching ops that he is also given there. Now factor how much better those numbers could be if Bush turns out to be as good a Pro as most think.Either way, if Houston doesn't do something via the draft and/or FA to sure up the line they should be kicked out of the NFL.

 

[Raiders Fan]

A key reason Edge was #1 as a rookie was the team around him.

With Edge it was a very unique situation - they had a top-5 fantasy scorer on their team already in Faulk and they traded him AWAY to get edge.The ONLY team with that kind of chance in this year's draft is Houston since DD is a top-10 FF scorer. That said, DD has never been a threat for the #1 overall FF spot - Faulk WAS that threat before he was traded to StLou and replaced with Edge.

Simply put, it is not realiastic for Bush to be the #1 overall scorer in FF in 2006 - no matter what you think of his "skill" and there is noone with a higher opinion of his skill than me.

Now you are CLEARLY fishing - you obviously don't want intellligent discussion, so I might as well shut this thread down - is that better for you than my response above?

he doesn't want one cause honestly he sounds like he is a tennager.. At least thats how I feel reading his posts. What I am surprised is how many people have this discussion about a topic that is totally worthless with no foundation of an kind of proof.

 

[fridayfrenzy]

A key reason Edge was #1 as a rookie was the team around him.

With Edge it was a very unique situation - they had a top-5 fantasy scorer on their team already in Faulk and they traded him AWAY to get edge.The ONLY team with that kind of chance in this year's draft is Houston since DD is a top-10 FF scorer. That said, DD has never been a threat for the #1 overall FF spot - Faulk WAS that threat before he was traded to StLou and replaced with Edge.

Simply put, it is not realiastic for Bush to be the #1 overall scorer in FF in 2006 - no matter what you think of his "skill" and there is noone with a higher opinion of his skill than me.

Now you are CLEARLY fishing - you obviously don't want intellligent discussion, so I might as well shut this thread down - is that better for you than my response above?

he doesn't want one cause honestly he sounds like he is a tennager.. At least thats how I feel reading his posts. What I am surprised is how many people have this discussion about a topic that is totally worthless with no foundation of an kind of proof.

 

[CalBear]

he doesn't want one cause honestly he sounds like he is a tennager..

Worse than that, he's probably from USC.

 

[Chaka]

15% of people here think that Bush will be better than LT.

Interesting.

USC homers.

I am the only one on this board and I did NOT vote for Bush.Everyone here hates USC.

Ahem... you have offended me sir...but that's okay because your a USC backer.

Worse than that, he's probably from USC.

Let's do everyone a favor and not start this tangent, okay comrade?

 

[shuke]

Take this for what it's worth, but I got a buddy that works part time at the Hall in Canton, and he says they're already making a spot for RB.

 

[cobalt_27]

FYI - This is not a fishing trip. I believe Reggie Bush is the best football player to come out of college in 20 years. If you don't like my opinions, please say so, but do not call this fishing anymore. Thanks.

fishing.

39 voters and I disagree with you. But thanks for calling my opinion BS. The lack of respect around here is ingratiating.

Have all those 39 guys (or, now, 44) and tell them to put down $1000 on one or the other. All 44 of them will put it on L.T. This is a messageboard where folks come in drunk, sleepy, pissed off...whatever. Some folks just like to cause a stir which somehow you've managed to do with people who are even taking this thread seriously and trying to argue with you. But, if they were to put real money down on this decision, nobody--even yourself--would put it on Bush.All I can say is this is a stupid poll; a stupid discussion. This is the sort of b.s.--and, that's exactly what it is--one might expect from a 5-digit/18000 type guy. You're giving the 3-digit fraternity a bad name.

 

[faulkfan]

No offense, but the only thing dumber than this conversation is trying to base the depth of a person's knowledge of the game on their member number.How many times has this board been changed so we had to reregister our memberships? Even ignoring the fact that people may have dropped their member # when they had to reregister, why would that number have anything to do with what someone knows about football and/or fantasy football?Back to the point. Everything is speculation in fantasy football. If it weren't, Steve Smith would have gone much higher in drafts and Moss and Owens would have gone much lower. People are speculating that Bush will be good and most of us think that it is unrealistic to think he will be as good as LT next year. However, all signs indicate that he will be a solid pro.Do any of us think D. Davis is a better football player than Bush? I think the argument people are making (based on the assumption that Bush goes to Houston) is that he is better than Davis and therefore should be able to put up better numbers with the same team that Davis has to work with. He can catch like Davis so he should be in for the majority of downs, he can run like Davis and has the same OL opening holes, so by extension people are drawingthe conclusion that he should be as good as, if not better than, Davis. Davis has put up decent numbers so Bush should put up decent numbers. If he is as explosive as people think he is and will be, then he could have a huge impact. I'm not saying this is what will happen, but I think this is what the argument is based on, and it isn't completely out of whack.I'd still want LT if I was picking in a redraft, plain and simple.

 

[shuke]

No offense, but the only thing dumber than this conversation is trying to base the depth of a person's knowledge of the game on their member number.

How many times has this board been changed so we had to reregister our memberships?

Even ignoring the fact that people may have dropped their member # when they had to reregister, why would that number have anything to do with what someone knows about football and/or fantasy football?

Typical 4 digit response. I didn't read the rest of what you had to say, by the way.

 

[ZJilla]

177 posts, and no one yet has mentioned just how bad Houston's offensive line is?

Shaun Alexander is great because he runs behind Walter Jones

Priest/LJ are great because they run behind Will Shields and Willie Roaf.

Edge runs behind Tarik Glenn, Jeff Saturday, etc.

Does Houston have anyone in the same galaxy as those guys?

I see a lot of runs for negative yardage for RBush next year.

The Houston line is only bad at PASS blocking. They are actually a good RUN blocking unit. Look at what DD has been able to do behind this awful Oline and then factor in the pass catching ops that he is also given there. Now factor how much better those numbers could be if Bush turns out to be as good a Pro as most think.Either way, if Houston doesn't do something via the draft and/or FA to sure up the line they should be kicked out of the NFL.

larryboy44?

 

[Hungryhippos]

I hope someone falls for the hype and grabs RBush as a first round pick. That will mean a real 1st rounder falls to me.Everyone is assuming RBush will be in Houston next year, but don't forget about the week 17 matchup at San Fran. The loser of this game will most likely get the first pick. That could easily be the 49ers.

 

[LHUCKS]

The number of people that bit on this fishing trip is laughable.

 

[iSnitch]

I'm late to the fishing trip but nonetheless.DD is currently 8th in ppg. McGahee hasn't done much this year but last season having a piss poor o-line didn't seem to hurt him any. If Davis is gone and the Texans draft Bush might he improve on these numbers? Domanick: rushing-4.2 ypc, 976 yards, 2 td's. Receiving 39 receptions, 337 yards and 4 td's. If Bush doesn't get hurt as much as Davis and Houston improves their line (it can't get any worse), it's still improbable, but not impossible, for Bush to rank quite high next year in ppr leagues.This would much better if the question were if you'd draft Bush at #5, not #1. The ONLY way I would even CONSIDER taking Reggie over LT2 would be if I were starting a new dynasty league. Even then...ETA: I'm taking LJ first next year anyway.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

No offense, but the only thing dumber than this conversation is trying to base the depth of a person's knowledge of the game on their member number.

How many times has this board been changed so we had to reregister our memberships?

Even ignoring the fact that people may have dropped their member # when they had to reregister, why would that number have anything to do with what someone knows about football and/or fantasy football?

Typical 4 digit response. I didn't read the rest of what you had to say, by the way.

If having a low member number makes you act like this then I'm hella glad I don't have one..

 

[Marc Levin]

No offense, but the only thing dumber than this conversation is trying to base the depth of a person's knowledge of the game on their member number.

How many times has this board been changed so we had to reregister our memberships?

so we had to reregister membership? exactly once.

 

[Marc Levin]

If having a low member number makes you act like this then I'm hella glad I don't have one..

Group: Members

Joined: 25-January 04

Member No.: 9812

I've got news for you . . .

 

[ILUVBEER99]

No offense, but the only thing dumber than this conversation is trying to base the depth of a person's knowledge of the game on their member number.

How many times has this board been changed so we had to reregister our memberships?

Even ignoring the fact that people may have dropped their member # when they had to reregister, why would that number have anything to do with what someone knows about football and/or fantasy football?

Typical 4 digit response. I didn't read the rest of what you had to say, by the way.

If having a low member number makes you act like this then I'm hella glad I don't have one..

Liar.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

If having a low member number makes you act like this then I'm hella glad I don't have one..

Group: Members

Joined: 25-January 04

Member No.: 9812

I've got news for you . . .

And that would be?

 

[Marc Levin]

u have a low number.4 digits = low number

 

[cormanman]

this is one of THE most absurd threads I've ever seen on a fantasy football messageboard.

This thread is waaaaay stoopid!!!!!

Let's see Bush make it out of training camp and take a snap in an NFL game before annointing him better than the league MVP.

Also, how the heck is SA not even part of the conversation/poll? Just another example of the silliness of this thread.