Can Obama increase background checks for guns? (1 Viewer)

[timschochet]

How do you decide which executive orders are legal and which ones aren't?

 

[General Malaise]

Back in 2008 I had lunch with two guys who were furious over Obama's election and said he was going to put laws in place that would stop the manufacturing of bullets. They were crazed over it, swearing that it was only a matter of time before Obama would cut off the ammunition supply. I thought they sounded pretty dumb and couldn't wait for lunch to end.

Bottom line - you gun nuts are a bunch of idiots. Whining all the ####### time about Obama this and Obama that and really, nothing has changed other than we've suffered 8 years of senseless and barbaric gun massacres at schools, colleges, movie theaters, office buildings and malls because not enough was done. I'm tired of it. I hope Obama does do something. This ain't right. My kids shouldn't go to school scared and I shouldn't be dropping them off worried that some lunatic will mow them down.

 

[timschochet]

Private sales is not a loophole, per the constitution the government to has to trust the citizens with guns.

"The constitution was written for a moral and religious people, it is wholly inadequate for the governance of any other". Johe Adams.

I still don't understand why the government can mistrust the citizens at point of the original gun sale. It's probably one of those unconstitutional things that just got ingrained over time as normal.

So according to this view of the Constitution there can be NO restrictions on gun sales whatsoever?

 

[jonessed]

How do you decide which executive orders are legal and which ones aren't?

The same way everybody else does?

I think it's illegal, you think it's legal, doesn't matter. It's all opinion until it goes through the courts. Even then, people will still have opinions.

 

[spreagle]

Back in 2008 I had lunch with two guys who were furious over Obama's election and said he was going to put laws in place that would stop the manufacturing of bullets. They were crazed over it, swearing that it was only a matter of time before Obama would cut off the ammunition supply. I thought they sounded pretty dumb and couldn't wait for lunch to end.

Bottom line - you gun nuts are a bunch of idiots. Whining all the ####### time about Obama this and Obama that and really, nothing has changed other than we've suffered 8 years of senseless and barbaric gun massacres at schools, colleges, movie theaters, office buildings and malls because not enough was done. I'm tired of it. I hope Obama does do something. This ain't right. My kids shouldn't go to school scared and I shouldn't be dropping them off worried that some lunatic will mow them down.

If it wasn't for the NRA, I think everyone agrees guns and ammo would have already gone to the same place gold and silver currency went.

 

[timschochet]

How do you decide which executive orders are legal and which ones aren't?

The same way everybody else does?

I think it's illegal, you think it's legal, doesn't matter. It's all opinion until it goes through the courts. Even then, people will still have opinions.

Not what I meant. Let's try again: why is this particular order illegal in your opinion?

 

[JuniorNB]

How do you decide which executive orders are legal and which ones aren't?

Something to do with a R and a D.

 

[spreagle]

Private sales is not a loophole, per the constitution the government to has to trust the citizens with guns.

"The constitution was written for a moral and religious people, it is wholly inadequate for the governance of any other". Johe Adams.

I still don't understand why the government can mistrust the citizens at point of the original gun sale. It's probably one of those unconstitutional things that just got ingrained over time as normal.

So according to this view of the Constitution there can be NO restrictions on gun sales whatsoever?

I guess the Supreme Court has said somewhere that restrictions on constitutional rights is reasonable. Maybe it makes the most sense that the restrictions are placed at original point of sale, since the dealer is more likely to know squat about the buyer. For private one on one sales, people have to be trusted.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

How do you decide which executive orders are legal and which ones aren't?

Say Congress authorizes the building of a dam on one side of a river. When the Dept of Energy goes to build the dam it turns out that the bank is not sloped right, so they build it 3 miles further downriver. That is a minor detail requiring a legal EO.

If the president decided no he's going to use that money to build another dam in another state and not the one provided for, that would be illegal.

Substantive changes that change the nature of the law are illegal.

 

[lakerstan]

Tim - I think you answered your own question in your original post.

"So President Obama is meeting with Loretta Lynch today to discuss whether or not he has the ability to issue an executive order that would increase the number of background checks for guns"

The Attorney General is the best one to give that guidance as to what is legal and what isn't legal. I don't think anyone here is expert enough to make that call.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Ha yeah Alberto Gonzales did a bangup job.

 

[Ratbert]

I think reasonable people would agree that any EO that materially affects or reinterprets the constitution or one of it's amendments is probably an abuse of executive power. We have mechanisms in place that allow the legislature to pass laws, the executive branch to veto bills it deems objectionable and the judiciary to rule on whether or not a law violates the constitution.

When we take shortcuts to do something quickly, we end up with abominations like internment camps, the patriot act and other cessation of rights.

If 98% of the country wants 2A (as it is currently interpreted by SCOTUS) changed, as the sitting POTUS claims, why hasn't his party attempted to amend the constitution?

Let's let the system work. The wheels of justice turn slowly.

 

[cstu]

Back in 2008 I had lunch with two guys who were furious over Obama's election and said he was going to put laws in place that would stop the manufacturing of bullets. They were crazed over it, swearing that it was only a matter of time before Obama would cut off the ammunition supply. I thought they sounded pretty dumb and couldn't wait for lunch to end.

Bottom line - you gun nuts are a bunch of idiots. Whining all the ####### time about Obama this and Obama that and really, nothing has changed other than we've suffered 8 years of senseless and barbaric gun massacres at schools, colleges, movie theaters, office buildings and malls because not enough was done. I'm tired of it. I hope Obama does do something. This ain't right. My kids shouldn't go to school scared and I shouldn't be dropping them off worried that some lunatic will mow them down.

If it wasn't for the NRA, I think everyone agrees guns and ammo would have already gone to the same place gold and silver currency went.

Uh, most liberals support the 2nd Amendment.

 

[cstu]

Ha yeah Alberto Gonzales did a bangup job.

Bush - "Hey Al, think this is legal?" <hands report>

Gonzales - "Let me see...hmm, says 'Patriot' Act in the title so I don't see why not."

 

[Valjean]

Here is a crazy idea. Lengthy prison terms for those caught illegally possessing a firearm. The following articles proves how useless gun laws really are. It appears we have more of a incompetent Judge problem than a gun problem.

http://nypost.com/2015/12/07/man-busted-with-weapons-twice-in-10-days-released-on-1k-bail/

http://www.universalhub.com/crime/20141112/man-awaiting-trial-illegal-gun-possession-arrested

http://raynham.wickedlocal.com/article/20150715/NEWS/150717892

 

[RCon]

How do you decide which executive orders are legal and which ones aren't?

Something to do with a R and a D.

R...D...

RED?

Code Red?

Did you order the Code Red???!!!??

 

[Jobber]

Nah. I think that all people should be allowed to buy all kinds of guns ....

50 cal. Machine guns, grenade launchers whatever. Buy today shoot today. Merica

Are they allowed to buy men crafted from straw?

 

[Ratbert]

Nah. I think that all people should be allowed to buy all kinds of guns ....

50 cal. Machine guns, grenade launchers whatever. Buy today shoot today. Merica

NFA items are nowhere near buy today, shoot today.

Sorry for ruining your narrative.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Wow, I know we had no idea how this meeting with AG Lynch would go today. It really could have gone either way.

Great news. Turns out Obama really does have the executive authority to issue new gun control measures under his own orders. Per the US Attorney General.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/president-obama-claims-executive-action-gun-control-authority/story?id=36081448

Whew.

 

[timschochet]

I think reasonable people would agree that any EO that materially affects or reinterprets the constitution or one of it's amendments is probably an abuse of executive power. We have mechanisms in place that allow the legislature to pass laws, the executive branch to veto bills it deems objectionable and the judiciary to rule on whether or not a law violates the constitution.

When we take shortcuts to do something quickly, we end up with abominations like internment camps, the patriot act and other cessation of rights.

If 98% of the country wants 2A (as it is currently interpreted by SCOTUS) changed, as the sitting POTUS claims, why hasn't his party attempted to amend the constitution?

Let's let the system work. The wheels of justice turn slowly.

I have asked this question several times before but never gotten a satisfactory answer: how does requiring background checks on all firearms sales either materailly effect or reinterprets the 2nd Amendment?

 

[timschochet]

Wow, I know we had no idea how this meeting with AG Lynch would go today. It really could have gone either way.

Great news. Turns out Obama really does have the executive authority to issue new gun control measures under his own orders. Per the US Attorney General.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/president-obama-claims-executive-action-gun-control-authority/story?id=36081448

Whew.

In all seriousness, why wouldn't he?

 

[shadrap]

This will go the way of his immigration reform, nowhere. It's a publicity stunt.

But if it could go somewhere would you be in favor of that?

Not as an executive order. I wouldn't have a problem with it if it was done through Congress.

Why not?

I dont want to speak for Jones, but my guess is, most people in the US dont want an individual to have the power to make laws. Its kind of a big deal.

this.

 

[timschochet]

This will go the way of his immigration reform, nowhere. It's a publicity stunt.

But if it could go somewhere would you be in favor of that?

Not as an executive order. I wouldn't have a problem with it if it was done through Congress.

Why not?

I dont want to speak for Jones, but my guess is, most people in the US dont want an individual to have the power to make laws. Its kind of a big deal.

this.

There's been much more egregious executive orders on that score, by Democrat and Republican Presidents alike. This one would simply expand what is already law in most cases. In terms of expanding the President's authority it's almost meaningless.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Wow, I know we had no idea how this meeting with AG Lynch would go today. It really could have gone either way.

Great news. Turns out Obama really does have the executive authority to issue new gun control measures under his own orders. Per the US Attorney General.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/president-obama-claims-executive-action-gun-control-authority/story?id=36081448

Whew.

In all seriousness, why wouldn't he?

In all seriousness why would anyone think he wouldn't? -> See the OP.

 

[shadrap]

I would think that Barack is getting tired of his Executive orders getting overturned by the courts.

 

[Clifford]

Why would anyone not want this?? He's not talking about banning sales of anything.

Because once liberals get enough controls in place for every single gun transfer, they will want to insert delays and cooling off periods so long that buying a gun will be a miserable experience and effectively be banned. Or in a time of crisis when some good law abiding citizen needs to buy a gun for good reason such as self defense, the liberals will just shut the system down. I'm sure there is plenty of other ways the liberals have planned to make owning a gun very difficult once they get enough control measures in place. They can't be trusted to be reasonable so they cant be given an inch more of gun control.

Wayne?

 

[Arizona Ron]

FYI - no one is talking about taking your guns hillbillies.

 

[Dan Lambskin]

Is this part of his plan to declare martial law so he can stay president?

 

[GrandpaRox]

This will be so easy to get around, I would give my gun away and accept cash only donations at the same time.

Easy workaround.

This will not stop one killing and is just more Obama BS.

 

[Nathan R. Jessep]

How do you decide which executive orders are legal and which ones aren't?

Something to do with a R and a D.

R...D...

RED?

Code Red?

Did you order the Code Red???!!!??

 

[BroncoFreak_2K3]

This will go the way of his immigration reform, nowhere. It's a publicity stunt.

But if it could go somewhere would you be in favor of that?

Not as an executive order. I wouldn't have a problem with it if it was done through Congress.

Why not?

I dont want to speak for Jones, but my guess is, most people in the US dont want an individual to have the power to make laws. Its kind of a big deal.

this.

There's been much more egregious executive orders on that score, by Democrat and Republican Presidents alike. This one would simply expand what is already law in most cases. In terms of expanding the President's authority it's almost meaningless.

thanks Loretta you answered your own OP

 

[cstu]

This will be so easy to get around, I would give my gun away and accept cash only donations at the same time.

Easy workaround.

This will not stop one killing and is just more Obama BS.

Good luck with that.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

This will go the way of his immigration reform, nowhere. It's a publicity stunt.

But if it could go somewhere would you be in favor of that?

Not as an executive order. I wouldn't have a problem with it if it was done through Congress.

Why not?

I dont want to speak for Jones, but my guess is, most people in the US dont want an individual to have the power to make laws. Its kind of a big deal.

this.

There's been much more egregious executive orders on that score, by Democrat and Republican Presidents alike. This one would simply expand what is already law in most cases. In terms of expanding the President's authority it's almost meaningless.

Wait, in your OP you said you had no idea if he could do this?

 

[The Commish]

This will go the way of his immigration reform, nowhere. It's a publicity stunt.

But if it could go somewhere would you be in favor of that?

Not as an executive order. I wouldn't have a problem with it if it was done through Congress.

Why not?

I dont want to speak for Jones, but my guess is, most people in the US dont want an individual to have the power to make laws. Its kind of a big deal.

this.

There's been much more egregious executive orders on that score, by Democrat and Republican Presidents alike. This one would simply expand what is already law in most cases. In terms of expanding the President's authority it's almost meaningless.

Any time you lead with this, you lose.

 

[32 Counter Pass]

YES, per the District of Columbia v. Heller ruling:

"On pp. 54 and 55, the majority opinion, written by conservative bastion Justice Antonin Scalia, states: “Like most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited…”. It is “…not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose.”

“Nothing in our opinion should be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms.”

“We also recognize another important limitation on the right to keep and carry arms...”

The court even recognizes a long-standing judicial precedent “…to consider… prohibitions on carrying concealed weapons.”

 

[cstu]

Obama has had fewer executive orders per year than any President since Grover Cleveland:

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/every-presidents-executive-actions-in-one-chart/

 

[timschochet]

This will go the way of his immigration reform, nowhere. It's a publicity stunt.

But if it could go somewhere would you be in favor of that?

Not as an executive order. I wouldn't have a problem with it if it was done through Congress.

Why not?

I dont want to speak for Jones, but my guess is, most people in the US dont want an individual to have the power to make laws. Its kind of a big deal.

this.

There's been much more egregious executive orders on that score, by Democrat and Republican Presidents alike. This one would simply expand what is already law in most cases. In terms of expanding the President's authority it's almost meaningless.

Wait, in your OP you said you had no idea if he could do this?

I heard some stuff in the meantime that sounded pretty compelling.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

This will go the way of his immigration reform, nowhere. It's a publicity stunt.

But if it could go somewhere would you be in favor of that?

Not as an executive order. I wouldn't have a problem with it if it was done through Congress.

Why not?

I dont want to speak for Jones, but my guess is, most people in the US dont want an individual to have the power to make laws. Its kind of a big deal.

this.

There's been much more egregious executive orders on that score, by Democrat and Republican Presidents alike. This one would simply expand what is already law in most cases. In terms of expanding the President's authority it's almost meaningless.

Wait, in your OP you said you had no idea if he could do this?

I heard some stuff in the meantime that sounded pretty compelling.

Oh thank goodness, had no idea how you would fall on this one.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Obama has had fewer executive orders per year than any President since Grover Cleveland:

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/every-presidents-executive-actions-in-one-chart/

Ha, could have said the same thing about George Bush. His (36.4) was the lowest since Grover's too. I think we're looking at quality here, not quantity. Bush & Obama go hand in hand on that score. Also there's not much difference between GWB at 36.4 and Obama at 33.6, we're talking about the difference between the no. 10 and no. 12 QB here.

 

[timschochet]

This will go the way of his immigration reform, nowhere. It's a publicity stunt.

But if it could go somewhere would you be in favor of that?

Not as an executive order. I wouldn't have a problem with it if it was done through Congress.

Why not?

I dont want to speak for Jones, but my guess is, most people in the US dont want an individual to have the power to make laws. Its kind of a big deal.

this.

There's been much more egregious executive orders on that score, by Democrat and Republican Presidents alike. This one would simply expand what is already law in most cases. In terms of expanding the President's authority it's almost meaningless.

Wait, in your OP you said you had no idea if he could do this?

I heard some stuff in the meantime that sounded pretty compelling.

Oh thank goodness, had no idea how you would fall on this one.

Thwt makes two of us. Though I suspect you're being sarcastic.

 

[shadrap]

Obama has had fewer executive orders per year than any President since Grover Cleveland:

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/every-presidents-executive-actions-in-one-chart/

Obama had quite a few more but identified/classified them as something else, like something good that we should do for the betterment of the country or er, ah, the betterment of the democratic party.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

So the president is trying to determine if he can, on his own better enforce the law already on the books? Isn't that what you guys always demand?

 

[shadrap]

So the president is trying to determine if he can, on his own better enforce the law already on the books? Isn't that what you guys always demand?

yes for your last sentence.

 

[RCon]

Doesn't all this arguing seem a bit silly prior to discovering what, exactly, Obama wants to do?

 

[The Commish]

I don't know anyone here who'd want a politician to have the power to do anything on legislatively their "own", but i could be wrong. Perhaps there is someone.

 

[The Commish]

Doesn't all this arguing seem a bit silly prior to discovering what, exactly, Obama wants to do?

of course, but this is the FFA

 

[TPW]

So the president is trying to determine if he can, on his own better enforce the law already on the books? Isn't that what you guys always demand?

He's reinterpreting statutory language to accomplish his political goals and once again using an executive end around because he's been completely ineffective in dealing with the body of government which is actually responsible for passing laws in this country, the United States Congress.

In other words, same #### different day.

 

[shadrap]

So the president is trying to determine if he can, on his own better enforce the law already on the books? Isn't that what you guys always demand?

He's reinterpreting statutory language to accomplish his political goals and once again using an executive end around because he's been completely ineffective in dealing with the body of government which is actually responsible for passing laws in this country, the United States Congress.

In other words, same #### different day.

yep.

 

[tommyboy]

So President Obama is meeting with Loretta Lynch today to discuss whether or not he has the ability to issue an executive order that would increase the number of background checks for guns- I'm assuming for private sales at gun shows, though this wasn't specified. In the past he's tried to have Congress do this and failed. Naturally some gun rights defenders are freaking out; the governor of Texas just issued a defiant "Come and take them!" as if Obama was threatening to seize guns rather than require background checks for purchase. Trump

And Cruz have already promised to reverse whatever Obama tries to do.

My question is: does Obama have the right to do this by executive order? I've always been confused at how far he can go with this ability.

Nope

Next question

 

[shadrap]

unfortunately.