My initial gut reaction was that Owens has the better shot, although neither will do it.Upon reflection, Moss is like 3-4 years younger than Owens, so just based on the age factor maybe Moss has a better shot. Plus, Owens's biggest season was 16 TD's, while Moss has put up 17+ three separate times. I do think Owens is in for a big year this season, fwiw, so we'll see.I still don't think either one of them catches Rice, but it will be close.Rice: games 303 receptions 1549 yards 22895 TDs 197 Owens: games 175 receptions 890 yards 13246 TDs 132 Moss: games 156 receptions 782 yards 12331 TDs 125 I think both will get fairly close, but ultimately come up short. I think Owens gets really close.
Moss isn't really that old. And he's getting TDs at a much higher rate then Rice, and quite a bit ahead of TO. If Brady didn't get hurt, and Moss put up 17-18 TDs, I think he'd be a lock to catch Rice. This year really hurts him. But if Moss can play 4-5 more years with Brady, he can do it.TO is much older, he's 35. Moss is 31, and pretty much dead even with Owens. To claim Owens can do it, but not Moss, it's foolish. Moss is neck and neck with Owens, and has 4 years on him. Not even close.TO has almost no shot. I don't see a 38/39/40 year old TO even playing in the NFL. He's a phyiscal beast, when he starts to lose that, he can't reinvent himself. TOs hands are horrible. His route running is average. Once he starts to lose his speed, he will go down hill very fast.Guys like Harrison, Moss, Rice, much more fluid. Moss isn't a great route runner, but he's built for speed and has great hands. Probably the best ability to adjust to an inflight ball the NFL has ever seen. Moss will be a decent RZ threat until he's 40. Question is does Moss really want to play 6-7 more years.I can't see either catching Star 80. To much ground to cover and they are getting long in the tooth.Rice remains numero uno.
for the sake of argument, let's give T.O. 14 tds this year. that puts him at 144 needing 54 more to pass Rice. He would then need to average 13.5 over the next 4 years or 10.8 over the next 5. I know it has been said a million times, but the guy is in unreal shape and looks to be every bit as good as he's always been.I'm just sayin.....it is possible.edit to add: I also think Moss can do it if his heart is there.My initial gut reaction was that Owens has the better shot, although neither will do it.Upon reflection, Moss is like 3-4 years younger than Owens, so just based on the age factor maybe Moss has a better shot. Plus, Owens's biggest season was 16 TD's, while Moss has put up 17+ three separate times. I do think Owens is in for a big year this season, fwiw, so we'll see.I still don't think either one of them catches Rice, but it will be close.Rice: games 303 receptions 1549 yards 22895 TDs 197 Owens: games 175 receptions 890 yards 13246 TDs 132 Moss: games 156 receptions 782 yards 12331 TDs 125 I think both will get fairly close, but ultimately come up short. I think Owens gets really close.
He is 35...and still in the conversation when talking about the best receiver in the league (regardless of one's personal opinion)I don't think he will do it, but he will get close.If Moss plays 5 more years, then I think he comes seriously close. If he plays more than 5 years then I think he does. I think the odds he plays 5 more years are rather low unless he has not won a SB. People seem to severely underestimate how much Moss wants a ring IMO. If he doesn't get one then I think he plays longer than most expect.
TO has little chance IMO. He is already what, 35? I think he plays 5 more years based on ego, but the last 2 or 3 wont be very productive.
Let me phrase it this way. If Moss plays until he is 40 (Rice played until 42!) then yes, he breaks that record running away IMO. If TO plays until he is 42 (same age as Rice when he retired) then I think he comes close but falls short. I don't really expect either guy to play past 40.He is 35...and still in the conversation when talking about the best receiver in the league (regardless of one's personal opinion)I don't think he will do it, but he will get close.If Moss plays 5 more years, then I think he comes seriously close. If he plays more than 5 years then I think he does. I think the odds he plays 5 more years are rather low unless he has not won a SB. People seem to severely underestimate how much Moss wants a ring IMO. If he doesn't get one then I think he plays longer than most expect.
TO has little chance IMO. He is already what, 35? I think he plays 5 more years based on ego, but the last 2 or 3 wont be very productive.
for the sake of argument, let's give T.O. 14 tds this year. that puts him at 144 needing 54 more to pass Rice. He would then need to average 13.5 over the next 4 years or 10.8 over the next 5. I know it has been said a million times, but the guy is in unreal shape and looks to be every bit as good as he's always been.I'm just sayin.....it is possible.edit to add: I also think Moss can do it if his heart is there.My initial gut reaction was that Owens has the better shot, although neither will do it.Upon reflection, Moss is like 3-4 years younger than Owens, so just based on the age factor maybe Moss has a better shot. Plus, Owens's biggest season was 16 TD's, while Moss has put up 17+ three separate times. I do think Owens is in for a big year this season, fwiw, so we'll see.I still don't think either one of them catches Rice, but it will be close.Rice: games 303 receptions 1549 yards 22895 TDs 197 Owens: games 175 receptions 890 yards 13246 TDs 132 Moss: games 156 receptions 782 yards 12331 TDs 125 I think both will get fairly close, but ultimately come up short. I think Owens gets really close.
Owens has never had a four year period in his career where he averaged 14 TD's per year. I see absolutely no reason to believe he can suddenly accomplish that in the next four years.On the other hand, he has always averaged 11+ TD's over any five-year period you pick from his career (excluding 1996). So it's certainly no stretch for him to catch 56 TD's in five years. But doing that from age 35-40 is a lot different than doing it from age 25-30.for the sake of argument, let's give T.O. 14 tds this year. that puts him at 144 needing 54 more to pass Rice. He would then need to average 13.5 over the next 4 years or 10.8 over the next 5. I know it has been said a million times, but the guy is in unreal shape and looks to be every bit as good as he's always been.I'm just sayin.....it is possible.My initial gut reaction was that Owens has the better shot, although neither will do it.Upon reflection, Moss is like 3-4 years younger than Owens, so just based on the age factor maybe Moss has a better shot. Plus, Owens's biggest season was 16 TD's, while Moss has put up 17+ three separate times. I do think Owens is in for a big year this season, fwiw, so we'll see.Rice: games 303 receptions 1549 yards 22895 TDs 197
Owens: games 175 receptions 890 yards 13246 TDs 132
Moss: games 156 receptions 782 yards 12331 TDs 125
I think both will get fairly close, but ultimately come up short. I think Owens gets really close.
I still don't think either one of them catches Rice, but it will be close.
edit to add: I also think Moss can do it if his heart is there.I think this sums up the scenario very well. It will be very difficult for Owens to average 14 tds over the next 4 years, but it is possible. Right now I think its safe to say that based on his physical condition T.O. will be able to play at the level he is at for another year or two at the very least. His numbers will drop down but will he just stop producing?? I don't think so. He certainly looks like he's going to get more than 14 this year.
65 TDs for Owens would require 4 really good seasons... he's how old? 32 I think? Playing at this high a level until he's 36, I don't know...I don't think Moss can do it, only because I think he had a couple down years that hurt him too much, but he should have been able to do it... if he'd just played inside of sulking,,,Rice: games 303 receptions 1549 yards 22895 TDs 197 Owens: games 175 receptions 890 yards 13246 TDs 132 Moss: games 156 receptions 782 yards 12331 TDs 125 I think both will get fairly close, but ultimately come up short. I think Owens gets really close.
TO is 35.Moss' down years mean nothing now. He is still in a great position to do it. Rice had down years too.65 TDs for Owens would require 4 really good seasons... he's how old? 32 I think? Playing at this high a level until he's 36, I don't know...I don't think Moss can do it, only because I think he had a couple down years that hurt him too much, but he should have been able to do it... if he'd just played inside of sulking,,,Rice: games 303 receptions 1549 yards 22895 TDs 197 Owens: games 175 receptions 890 yards 13246 TDs 132 Moss: games 156 receptions 782 yards 12331 TDs 125 I think both will get fairly close, but ultimately come up short. I think Owens gets really close.
So this is TO's last year?They are both too egocentric to stick around after their skills start to fade. Rice was ego-less & kept producing even though he was not always 1st option. That attitude is rare these days.
You think TO would settle for being the 2nd option? Would Moss?
They'll both retire around age 36.
TO is 34So this is TO's last year?They are both too egocentric to stick around after their skills start to fade. Rice was ego-less & kept producing even though he was not always 1st option. That attitude is rare these days.
You think TO would settle for being the 2nd option? Would Moss?
They'll both retire around age 36.
I don't actually think it was his fault in Oakland. He was playing for perhaps the biggest joke combo at coach and offensive co-ordinator in NFL history. I mean, what a pair of chumps. And he was hurt much of the time too.I think they will both finish short of Rice's numbers, but I do wonder what Moss' stats might have looked like had he not phoned it in those years he was in Oakland.
Moss has played ten seasons.What you're missing is that in Rice's first ten seasons, he averaged 13.4 TD's per 16 games. If you don't count his rookie year, where he only started 4 games, he averaged 14.7 TD's per 16 games from years 2-11.Comparing apples to apples, from a per-game standpoint, Rice crushed Moss. His career TD/16gm average dropped because once he was no longer in his prime, his TD totals dipped. Even so, Rice's career TD/16gm is over 10. Remarkable considering he played until he was 42.At his career pace (12.8 TD's per 16 games), Randy needs 5.6 more seasons, including this one.If Randy plays six more seasons including this one, he will retire at age 36.I think Randy makes it.Consider that even if he loses a step in a few years, Randy can still make a living as the best red zone WR in the game, with his best-ever leaping ability and impeccable hands.The ONLY question with Randy is whether he retires early. From a per-game standpoint, he has crushed Rice and TO on stats.
Ehh, crushed moss? You should probably run the numbers for Moss again. Even with the Raiders years, he's very close to his pace. Without his injury filled 2nd Raider year, he's roughly equal. Moss was actually AHEAD of Rice's pace before he left the Vikings. Crush moss, lol. First 10 years, 12.8 to 13.4. You take out his 1st, I'll take out Moss' 2nd raider year. 14.7 vs 14.1.Where is this crushing? If we take out both Moss' raider years, he almost jumps dead even.Moss has played ten seasons.What you're missing is that in Rice's first ten seasons, he averaged 13.4 TD's per 16 games. If you don't count his rookie year, where he only started 4 games, he averaged 14.7 TD's per 16 games from years 2-11.Comparing apples to apples, from a per-game standpoint, Rice crushed Moss. His career TD/16gm average dropped because once he was no longer in his prime, his TD totals dipped. Even so, Rice's career TD/16gm is over 10. Remarkable considering he played until he was 42.At his career pace (12.8 TD's per 16 games), Randy needs 5.6 more seasons, including this one.If Randy plays six more seasons including this one, he will retire at age 36.I think Randy makes it.Consider that even if he loses a step in a few years, Randy can still make a living as the best red zone WR in the game, with his best-ever leaping ability and impeccable hands.The ONLY question with Randy is whether he retires early. From a per-game standpoint, he has crushed Rice and TO on stats.
Prior to this year, I owned TO for 3 years running in redrafts....it would be miraculous if he scored 20 TDs based on his high week to week production variability.I honestly think TO get around 20 tds this year... that would give him a view of the record.I think he would be more motivated to pass Rice being their personal history.
Settle down, Sally. I was merely replying to the original claim that Moss crushed Rice.We're not cherry-picking which years to include and not include. The point is, the guy said that Moss's TD/16 games average is better than Rice's, which is an apples to oranges comparison.Ehh, crushed moss? You should probably run the numbers for Moss again. Even with the Raiders years, he's very close to his pace. Without his injury filled 2nd Raider year, he's roughly equal. Moss was actually AHEAD of Rice's pace before he left the Vikings. Crush moss, lol. First 10 years, 12.8 to 13.4. You take out his 1st, I'll take out Moss' 2nd raider year. 14.7 vs 14.1.Moss has played ten seasons.What you're missing is that in Rice's first ten seasons, he averaged 13.4 TD's per 16 games.At his career pace (12.8 TD's per 16 games), Randy needs 5.6 more seasons, including this one.
If Randy plays six more seasons including this one, he will retire at age 36.
I think Randy makes it.
Consider that even if he loses a step in a few years, Randy can still make a living as the best red zone WR in the game, with his best-ever leaping ability and impeccable hands.
The ONLY question with Randy is whether he retires early. From a per-game standpoint, he has crushed Rice and TO on stats.
If you don't count his rookie year, where he only started 4 games, he averaged 14.7 TD's per 16 games from years 2-11.
Comparing apples to apples, from a per-game standpoint, Rice crushed Moss. His career TD/16gm average dropped because once he was no longer in his prime, his TD totals dipped. Even so, Rice's career TD/16gm is over 10. Remarkable considering he played until he was 42.
Where is this crushing? If we take out both Moss' raider years, he almost jumps dead even.
But that is what made Jerry Rice so awesome. He never tanked on a team, and he was healthy his whole career, except for '97, which enabled him to put up those obscene numbers. I think it goes without saying that if Moss had the work ethic that Rice had, he would have obliterated Rice's numbers, but he simply doesn't.I don't actually think it was his fault in Oakland. He was playing for perhaps the biggest joke combo at coach and offensive co-ordinator in NFL history. I mean, what a pair of chumps. And he was hurt much of the time too.I think they will both finish short of Rice's numbers, but I do wonder what Moss' stats might have looked like had he not phoned it in those years he was in Oakland.
So he said Moss crushed Rice. You said Rice crushed Moss. Regardless, you're both ######ed.Rice never crushed Moss in any span. Moss was ahead of his td per games for most of his career. Apples to apples, Moss is very close to Rice any way you slice it.tomarken said:Settle down, Sally. I was merely replying to the original claim that Moss crushed Rice.We're not cherry-picking which years to include and not include. The point is, the guy said that Moss's TD/16 games average is better than Rice's, which is an apples to oranges comparison.teamroc said:Ehh, crushed moss? You should probably run the numbers for Moss again. Even with the Raiders years, he's very close to his pace. Without his injury filled 2nd Raider year, he's roughly equal. Moss was actually AHEAD of Rice's pace before he left the Vikings. Crush moss, lol. First 10 years, 12.8 to 13.4. You take out his 1st, I'll take out Moss' 2nd raider year. 14.7 vs 14.1.tomarken said:Moss has played ten seasons.What you're missing is that in Rice's first ten seasons, he averaged 13.4 TD's per 16 games.The Man Who Met Andy Griffith said:At his career pace (12.8 TD's per 16 games), Randy needs 5.6 more seasons, including this one.
If Randy plays six more seasons including this one, he will retire at age 36.
I think Randy makes it.
Consider that even if he loses a step in a few years, Randy can still make a living as the best red zone WR in the game, with his best-ever leaping ability and impeccable hands.
The ONLY question with Randy is whether he retires early. From a per-game standpoint, he has crushed Rice and TO on stats.
If you don't count his rookie year, where he only started 4 games, he averaged 14.7 TD's per 16 games from years 2-11.
Comparing apples to apples, from a per-game standpoint, Rice crushed Moss. His career TD/16gm average dropped because once he was no longer in his prime, his TD totals dipped. Even so, Rice's career TD/16gm is over 10. Remarkable considering he played until he was 42.
Where is this crushing? If we take out both Moss' raider years, he almost jumps dead even.
Through their first ten seasons, Rice averaged more TD's per 16 games than Moss has. Now let's see Moss do what Rice did for the second ten years of his career before we anoint Randy as the TD champ.
And like I mentioned before, the 197 number is not even including the 10 or so rushing TD's Rice had.
TO is 35 in less than 3 months. So he will be 36 during the 2009 season. If he's retiring around 36 as suggested, he'd probably just take 2009 off as suggested.Chunky Soup said:TO is 34gianmarco said:So this is TO's last year?Resident A said:They are both too egocentric to stick around after their skills start to fade. Rice was ego-less & kept producing even though he was not always 1st option. That attitude is rare these days.
You think TO would settle for being the 2nd option? Would Moss?
They'll both retire around age 36.![]()
That's because he already is the best evah.See, for comparative purposes, Barry Sanders vs Emmit Smith.Neither will.Owens would be closer since I think he has the body and drive.Moss, I think, would have retired if the Patriots won last year. He signed on for another chance at a title. No real drive to be the best IMO.
uh i don't think soto is probably the hardest working player in the game todaydrew726 said:TO is in great shape for his age but Rice was really in great shape his whole career. His workout regimen would make TO cry
Perhaps I should have put "crushed" in quotes or something - I never actually meant that Rice crushed Moss, and I wouldn't have used the word, I was just sort of sarcastically using the word when pointing out the error of the OP.Anyway, I don't see where "Moss was ahead of his td per games for most of his career." Please explain.So he said Moss crushed Rice. You said Rice crushed Moss. Regardless, you're both ######ed.Rice never crushed Moss in any span. Moss was ahead of his td per games for most of his career. Apples to apples, Moss is very close to Rice any way you slice it.tomarken said:Settle down, Sally. I was merely replying to the original claim that Moss crushed Rice.We're not cherry-picking which years to include and not include. The point is, the guy said that Moss's TD/16 games average is better than Rice's, which is an apples to oranges comparison.teamroc said:Ehh, crushed moss? You should probably run the numbers for Moss again. Even with the Raiders years, he's very close to his pace. Without his injury filled 2nd Raider year, he's roughly equal. Moss was actually AHEAD of Rice's pace before he left the Vikings. Crush moss, lol. First 10 years, 12.8 to 13.4. You take out his 1st, I'll take out Moss' 2nd raider year. 14.7 vs 14.1.tomarken said:Moss has played ten seasons.What you're missing is that in Rice's first ten seasons, he averaged 13.4 TD's per 16 games.The Man Who Met Andy Griffith said:At his career pace (12.8 TD's per 16 games), Randy needs 5.6 more seasons, including this one.
If Randy plays six more seasons including this one, he will retire at age 36.
I think Randy makes it.
Consider that even if he loses a step in a few years, Randy can still make a living as the best red zone WR in the game, with his best-ever leaping ability and impeccable hands.
The ONLY question with Randy is whether he retires early. From a per-game standpoint, he has crushed Rice and TO on stats.
If you don't count his rookie year, where he only started 4 games, he averaged 14.7 TD's per 16 games from years 2-11.
Comparing apples to apples, from a per-game standpoint, Rice crushed Moss. His career TD/16gm average dropped because once he was no longer in his prime, his TD totals dipped. Even so, Rice's career TD/16gm is over 10. Remarkable considering he played until he was 42.
Where is this crushing? If we take out both Moss' raider years, he almost jumps dead even.
Through their first ten seasons, Rice averaged more TD's per 16 games than Moss has. Now let's see Moss do what Rice did for the second ten years of his career before we anoint Randy as the TD champ.
And like I mentioned before, the 197 number is not even including the 10 or so rushing TD's Rice had.
NAME POS YRs G REC RECYD YD/REC RECTD FANT PT1 Jerry Rice wr 1993--2004 179 939 12622 13.44 94 1885.802 Cris Carter wr 1996--2002 101 530 6695 12.63 64 1053.803 Terrell Owens wr 2004--2008 54 298 4674 15.68 51 773.604 Marvin Harrison wr 2003--2008 69 386 5236 13.56 50 823.905 Irving Fryar wr 1993--2000 126 488 7059 14.47 46 987.306 Tim Brown wr 1997--2004 127 599 7754 12.94 45 1054.007 Jimmy Smith wr 2000--2005 91 481 6613 13.75 39 895.208 Joey Galloway wr 2002--2008 90 338 5428 16.06 36 767.409 Drew Hill wr 1987--1993 106 445 6203 13.94 36 836.4010 Don Maynard wr 1966--1973 92 305 5970 19.57 35 808.40
NAME POS YRs G REC RECYD YD/REC RECTD FANT PT1 Jerry Rice wr 1994--2004 163 841 11119 13.22 79 1632.602 Cris Carter wr 1996--2002 101 530 6695 12.63 64 1053.803 Irving Fryar wr 1993--2000 126 488 7059 14.47 46 987.304 Tim Brown wr 1997--2004 127 599 7754 12.94 45 1054.005 Terrell Owens wr 2005--2008 40 221 3474 15.72 37 570.106 Charlie Joiner wr 1978--1986 136 501 7605 15.18 34 963.307 Keenan McCardell wr 2001--2007 92 397 4957 12.49 31 683.308 Jimmy Smith wr 2001--2005 76 390 5400 13.85 31 725.909 Drew Hill wr 1988--1993 94 396 5214 13.17 30 701.5010 Don Maynard wr 1967--1973 78 257 5130 19.96 30 694.40
Agreed.Rice, through age 36, has a 20-TD edge on Owens. Considering Rice's career after age 36 is one of the most incredible performances in league history, we can safely put Owens' chances at 0.
Yes, but Moss played in 30 more games than Rice by age 32. So Rice actually outpaced Moss in TD/game up until that point in their respective careers. And then Rice played for another ten years.Moss has a 17-TD lead on Rice through age 32: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/tiny/Kyv4q
Seems like the story now is the same as it was two years ago. In order to catch Rice, Moss would need to do something over the remainder of his career that no one has ever done before - except Rice.Still, he'll need 49 more TDs. How many WRs have caught 49 TDs or more after their age-32 season? Just one, Rice.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/tiny/E4dfm
Owens is 2nd with 43 and counting; Carter is third with 41.
I think this is a little misleading. Physically, Owens could easily do this as well, and even surpass it. It doesn't appear physically he is slowing down tremendously. He's just such a mental case that he's not going to be able to maximize his performance.[
Seems like the story now is the same as it was two years ago. In order to catch Rice, Moss would need to do something over the remainder of his career that no one has ever done before - except Rice.Still, he'll need 49 more TDs. How many WRs have caught 49 TDs or more after their age-32 season? Just one, Rice.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/tiny/E4dfm
Owens is 2nd with 43 and counting; Carter is third with 41.![]()