Car Market going forward (2 Viewers)

[dkp993]

Ha those are all new cars compared to me. 1996 Lexus Ls400. Kids go to a school with affluent parents. I feel like Uncle Buck when dropping them off and picking them up.

LS400’s are in the pantheon of all time great cars. Put Lexus on the map. Zero shame in that game brother.

I got lucky with timing too and bought a 2016 GS450h (a unicorn) with 30k for $32k right before COVID. Was the only one for sale in the country at the time. Feel like I stole it.

 

[fruity pebbles]

Ha those are all new cars compared to me. 1996 Lexus Ls400. Kids go to a school with affluent parents. I feel like Uncle Buck when dropping them off and picking them up.

LS400’s are in the pantheon of all time great cars. Put Lexus on the map. Zero shame in that game brother.

I got lucky with timing too and bought a 2016 GS450h (a unicorn) with 30k for $32k. Was the only one for sale in the country at the time. Feel like I stole it.

I specifically searched out the car. Was a one owner original. That said, appearance wise it definitely shows it’s age. It looks like a 90s era car. Still has the built in cellphone lol. My 12 year old daughter asked if I can drop her off in the parking lot instead of right in front of the school. She didn’t say why lol.

 

[dkp993]

My 12 year old daughter asked if I can drop her off in the parking lot instead of right in front of the school. She didn’t say why lol

Because she’s 12. Probably ask you to do that if you were driving a Rolls. Preteens/teens embarrassment of their parents knows no bounds. Lol

 

[fatness]

My wife’s Outback is great and getting close to 8 years old, only 116k miles but it got rear-ended a few years ago and it’s never been fully “right” since that accident. Weird stuff like the tailgate not closing sometimes, or the computer saying there’s an obstacle in the road when there’s nothing there.

I have a 2015 Forester and the "invisible obstacle in the road" warning is pretty common. I just assume the car sees alternate realities I cannot, keep driving normally, and hope I live. So far no collisions with invisible objects but I do believe the car sees something I don't.

 

[pollardsvision]

Ha those are all new cars compared to me. 1996 Lexus Ls400. Kids go to a school with affluent parents. I feel like Uncle Buck when dropping them off and picking them up.

I'm with you my brotha. I love older cars. I have 3. '96 Honda Accord, '01 Toyota Echo, '03 Subaru Outback.

I don't make FBG money, but I could certainly afford newer cars. But I have absolutely no interest.
If people don't roll with the beater life, they usually have no idea how reliable good beaters are.

I really just love Clinton/Bush Era Japanese cars. I look at them the same way a boomer does a muscle car from the 60's/70's.
Except I can get the wonderful cars from "my era" for a couple thousand bucks.

 

[pollardsvision]

And speaking of loving 90's/early 2000's cars..... Obviously I could be wrong but I believe that was the last time the American car market was somewhat sensible.

The Japanese influence was at full peak. Making crappy cars was no longer acceptable.

But you could still get simple affordable cars without a ton of bells and whistles.

I don't know if the era of social media and smartphones had an impact, but I believe from that period, we have been on a steady march to the ridiculousness of today.

That could just be the Gen X curmudgeon in me talking though.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Used market sure has dropped if you’re trying to sell. Lots of lowball offers out there.

As for me, absolutely can’t stand car payments. Pay cash for 1-2 year old cars with low miles and drive them for 10+ years. Then do it again. Leasing just never made much financial sense for me either.

Same. And cars are so reliable these days, can easily go for decades.

My current car is a 2006 Subaru, which I bought in 2008 for $20K with 20K miles. A little over 110K miles now, with no issues outside of expected maintenance. I'm hoping it will last until autonomous vehicles make car ownership obsolete...maybe another 10 years or so?

ETA Solar cars might make me rethink my plan.

 

[Willy]

Another piece is how EVs fit into the dealership model with the service department as a major profit center. If EVs require less maintenance and the type of maintenance is different, can dealers adapt and still meet customer demands?

Do we have data on that? Do EVs really require less maintenance and repairs?

Except Tesla, of course.

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-repair-maintenance/pay-less-for-vehicle-maintenance-with-an-ev/

Survey results involving hundreds of thousands of CR members show that EV and plug-in hybrid drivers pay half as much to repair and maintain their vehicles. Consumers who purchase an electric car can expect to save an average of $4,600 in repair and maintenance costs over the life of the vehicle compared with a gasoline-powered car, CR's study shows.

The article is from 2020, but I doubt much has changed.

For sure the service departments will see EV owners less frequently, and have fewer high-profit preventative maintenance things to perform on EVs. No oil changes ever. No flush/fill radiators, belts and hoses, tune ups/spark plugs. Heck, the entire cooling, fuel, intake and exhaust systems don't exist on EVs. That's a lot of stuff that can never go bad. I believe tires will be needed a little more frequently, but brakes less frequently on EVs.

 

[Buckna]

Used market sure has dropped if you’re trying to sell. Lots of lowball offers out there.

As for me, absolutely can’t stand car payments. Pay cash for 1-2 year old cars with low miles and drive them for 10+ years. Then do it again. Leasing just never made much financial sense for me either.

Same. And cars are so reliable these days, can easily go for decades.

My current car is a 2006 Subaru, which I bought in 2008 for $20K with 20K miles. A little over 110K miles now, with no issues outside of expected maintenance. I'm hoping it will last until autonomous vehicles make car ownership obsolete...maybe another 10 years or so?

ETA Solar cars might make me rethink my plan.

Only 90k miles in 14 years? You are definitely on the low-end of usage cases which makes a difference.

We had an ‘08 Outback as a beater commuter for a while. Great vehicle other than you had to feed it a quart of oil about once a month. Only replaced it because we needed something with more space on the inside.

 

[Willy]

Regarding the car market, the easy and long-term financing has caused a lot of this. How much do you want to pay per month? 600? Sure here's a 96 month loan.

You'd be upside down on that thing for most of that loan. Then if you want to upgrade again before it's paid off they will just roll the balance into the loan on the new car over a 108 month term. It's almost like people don't understand anything about personal finances.

 

[Sand]

Another piece is how EVs fit into the dealership model with the service department as a major profit center. If EVs require less maintenance and the type of maintenance is different, can dealers adapt and still meet customer demands?

Do we have data on that? Do EVs really require less maintenance and repairs?

Except Tesla, of course.

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-repair-maintenance/pay-less-for-vehicle-maintenance-with-an-ev/

Survey results involving hundreds of thousands of CR members show that EV and plug-in hybrid drivers pay half as much to repair and maintain their vehicles. Consumers who purchase an electric car can expect to save an average of $4,600 in repair and maintenance costs over the life of the vehicle compared with a gasoline-powered car, CR's study shows.

The article is from 2020, but I doubt much has changed.

For sure the service departments will see EV owners less frequently, and have fewer high-profit preventative maintenance things to perform on EVs. No oil changes ever. No flush/fill radiators, belts and hoses, tune ups/spark plugs. Heck, the entire cooling, fuel, intake and exhaust systems don't exist on EVs. That's a lot of stuff that can never go bad. I believe tires will be needed a little more frequently, but brakes less frequently on EVs.

That's pretty cool. IMO, I think the sweet spot for vehicles right now is PHEVs, but this is definitely a big plus for full EVs.

 

[Sand]

And speaking of loving 90's/early 2000's cars.....

I would love a 1990 Prelude. Such a nice looking car back in the day.

ETA Solar cars might make me rethink my plan.

Not sure Aptera is going to survive, but the flexible solar cells they are spawning will, for sure. Solar cells over the top of a vehicle will allow for ~30 miles a day or so, which will cover, what, 80% of trips? It's a game changer and I'll personally wait to get an EV until this happens.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

Ha those are all new cars compared to me. 1996 Lexus Ls400. Kids go to a school with affluent parents. I feel like Uncle Buck when dropping them off and picking them up.

LS400’s are in the pantheon of all time great cars. Put Lexus on the map. Zero shame in that game brother.

I got lucky with timing too and bought a 2016 GS450h (a unicorn) with 30k for $32k. Was the only one for sale in the country at the time. Feel like I stole it.

I specifically searched out the car. Was a one owner original. That said, appearance wise it definitely shows it’s age. It looks like a 90s era car. Still has the built in cellphone lol. My 12 year old daughter asked if I can drop her off in the parking lot instead of right in front of the school. She didn’t say why lol.

2007 ES 350 here, which I love but my wife and teenage son both hate to drive (bonus!). I bought it in 2015 for $11,500 and it still has just under 90,000 miles. It took a couple years before I discovered it has an aux jack so I can stream music through my phone. Also has a tape cassette player which rocks. I'm old as dirt and still never had a car payment in my life (not counting my wife's cars). I had to get a water pump replaced a few years ago. Otherwise just oil changes, tires, battery and similar basic maintenance stuff.

 

[gianmarco]

Another piece is how EVs fit into the dealership model with the service department as a major profit center. If EVs require less maintenance and the type of maintenance is different, can dealers adapt and still meet customer demands?

Do we have data on that? Do EVs really require less maintenance and repairs?

Except Tesla, of course.

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-repair-maintenance/pay-less-for-vehicle-maintenance-with-an-ev/

Survey results involving hundreds of thousands of CR members show that EV and plug-in hybrid drivers pay half as much to repair and maintain their vehicles. Consumers who purchase an electric car can expect to save an average of $4,600 in repair and maintenance costs over the life of the vehicle compared with a gasoline-powered car, CR's study shows.

The article is from 2020, but I doubt much has changed.

For sure the service departments will see EV owners less frequently, and have fewer high-profit preventative maintenance things to perform on EVs. No oil changes ever. No flush/fill radiators, belts and hoses, tune ups/spark plugs. Heck, the entire cooling, fuel, intake and exhaust systems don't exist on EVs. That's a lot of stuff that can never go bad. I believe tires will be needed a little more frequently, but brakes less frequently on EVs.

Exactly. There's no transmission. That's also why there's no hump down the middle of the car.

 

[fruity pebbles]

Ha those are all new cars compared to me. 1996 Lexus Ls400. Kids go to a school with affluent parents. I feel like Uncle Buck when dropping them off and picking them up.

LS400’s are in the pantheon of all time great cars. Put Lexus on the map. Zero shame in that game brother.

I got lucky with timing too and bought a 2016 GS450h (a unicorn) with 30k for $32k. Was the only one for sale in the country at the time. Feel like I stole it.

I specifically searched out the car. Was a one owner original. That said, appearance wise it definitely shows it’s age. It looks like a 90s era car. Still has the built in cellphone lol. My 12 year old daughter asked if I can drop her off in the parking lot instead of right in front of the school. She didn’t say why lol.

2007 ES 350 here, which I love but my wife and teenage son both hate to drive (bonus!). I bought it in 2015 for $11,500 and it still has just under 90,000 miles. It took a couple years before I discovered it has an aux jack so I can stream music through my phone. Also has a tape cassette player which rocks. I'm old as dirt and still never had a car payment in my life (not counting my wife's cars). I had to get a water pump replaced a few years ago. Otherwise just oil changes, tires, battery and similar basic maintenance stuff.

Bought mine with 115,000 miles over the span of 25 years. Old dude just drove it in the summer around the beach. My oldest daughter made fun of it when I bought it. She has a 10 year old Toyota Matrix. Laughed that she was driving a nicer car than me now. I responded that since I bought both, keep yapping and we’ll be switching. She hasn’t said a word since.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Used market sure has dropped if you’re trying to sell. Lots of lowball offers out there.

As for me, absolutely can’t stand car payments. Pay cash for 1-2 year old cars with low miles and drive them for 10+ years. Then do it again. Leasing just never made much financial sense for me either.

Same. And cars are so reliable these days, can easily go for decades.

My current car is a 2006 Subaru, which I bought in 2008 for $20K with 20K miles. A little over 110K miles now, with no issues outside of expected maintenance. I'm hoping it will last until autonomous vehicles make car ownership obsolete...maybe another 10 years or so?

ETA Solar cars might make me rethink my plan.

Only 90k miles in 14 years? You are definitely on the low-end of usage cases which makes a difference.

We had an ‘08 Outback as a beater commuter for a while. Great vehicle other than you had to feed it a quart of oil about once a month. Only replaced it because we needed something with more space on the inside.

Yeah, I was a commuter cyclist for over a decade, when I barely drove at all. Regardless, there’s not a lot of places to drive around here.

This is my first Subaru, but it’s been pretty worry-free so far.

 

[Terminalxylem]

And speaking of loving 90's/early 2000's cars.....

I would love a 1990 Prelude. Such a nice looking car back in the day.

ETA Solar cars might make me rethink my plan.

Not sure Aptera is going to survive, but the flexible solar cells they are spawning will, for sure. Solar cells over the top of a vehicle will allow for ~30 miles a day or so, which will cover, what, 80% of trips? It's a game changer and I'll personally wait to get an EV until this happens.

My prior car was a ‘98 Prelude. A little uglier than ‘90, but a really fun car.

Living in a sunny place, I’d probably never need to pay for fuel with a car like Aptera. I didn’t realize they were teetering on the brink.

 

[Rich Conway]

Regarding the car market, the easy and long-term financing has caused a lot of this. How much do you want to pay per month? 600? Sure here's a 96 month loan.

You'd be upside down on that thing for most of that loan. Then if you want to upgrade again before it's paid off they will just roll the balance into the loan on the new car over a 108 month term. It's almost like people don't understand anything about personal finances.

Almost?

 

[dkp993]

Ha those are all new cars compared to me. 1996 Lexus Ls400. Kids go to a school with affluent parents. I feel like Uncle Buck when dropping them off and picking them up.

LS400’s are in the pantheon of all time great cars. Put Lexus on the map. Zero shame in that game brother.

I got lucky with timing too and bought a 2016 GS450h (a unicorn) with 30k for $32k. Was the only one for sale in the country at the time. Feel like I stole it.

I specifically searched out the car. Was a one owner original. That said, appearance wise it definitely shows it’s age. It looks like a 90s era car. Still has the built in cellphone lol. My 12 year old daughter asked if I can drop her off in the parking lot instead of right in front of the school. She didn’t say why lol.

2007 ES 350 here, which I love but my wife and teenage son both hate to drive (bonus!). I bought it in 2015 for $11,500 and it still has just under 90,000 miles. It took a couple years before I discovered it has an aux jack so I can stream music through my phone. Also has a tape cassette player which rocks. I'm old as dirt and still never had a car payment in my life (not counting my wife's cars). I had to get a water pump replaced a few years ago. Otherwise just oil changes, tires, battery and similar basic maintenance stuff.

Bought an 07 ES350 in 09 for $20 something with 35k miles for the wife. She absolutely LOVED the car. Being a car guy I didn’t really dig it as it felt like an old lady’s car to me but it ran to 240,000 miles flawlessly. We traded it in a couple years ago simply because it had 240 and we just felt it was time, but man that car was rock solid. She loved it so much we got her another ES, 2018 I think, but we only had it for a year before we upgraded to a needed SUV.

 

[dkp993]

ught mine with 115,000 miles over the span of 25 years. Old dude just drove it in the summer around the beach. My oldest daughter made fun of it when I bought it. She has a 10 year old Toyota Matrix. Laughed that she was driving a nicer car than me now. I responded that since I bought both, keep yapping and we’ll be switching. She hasn’t said a word since

Not sure if you‘ve ever seen this. Matt Farah (youtube car guy) and his million mile LS.

The Million-Mile Lexus

Crossing seven digits in the luxury car that changed everything.

www.roadandtrack.com

 

[Sand]

Living in a sunny place, I’d probably never need to pay for fuel with a car like Aptera. I didn’t realize they were teetering on the brink.

Always been on the edge. I hope they make it. Cool concept.

 

[Scoresman]

Lease on our Lexus SUV is up in March. We went in and they said that leasing another would be double what we're paying a month now. No thanks. We're taking the option to extend the current lease 6 months and will re-evaluate then.

 

[pollardsvision]

Ha those are all new cars compared to me. 1996 Lexus Ls400. Kids go to a school with affluent parents. I feel like Uncle Buck when dropping them off and picking them up.

LS400’s are in the pantheon of all time great cars. Put Lexus on the map. Zero shame in that game brother.

I got lucky with timing too and bought a 2016 GS450h (a unicorn) with 30k for $32k. Was the only one for sale in the country at the time. Feel like I stole it.

I specifically searched out the car. Was a one owner original. That said, appearance wise it definitely shows it’s age. It looks like a 90s era car. Still has the built in cellphone lol. My 12 year old daughter asked if I can drop her off in the parking lot instead of right in front of the school. She didn’t say why lol.

2007 ES 350 here, which I love but my wife and teenage son both hate to drive (bonus!). I bought it in 2015 for $11,500 and it still has just under 90,000 miles. It took a couple years before I discovered it has an aux jack so I can stream music through my phone. Also has a tape cassette player which rocks. I'm old as dirt and still never had a car payment in my life (not counting my wife's cars). I had to get a water pump replaced a few years ago. Otherwise just oil changes, tires, battery and similar basic maintenance stuff.

Bought mine with 115,000 miles over the span of 25 years. Old dude just drove it in the summer around the beach. My oldest daughter made fun of it when I bought it. She has a 10 year old Toyota Matrix. Laughed that she was driving a nicer car than me now. I responded that since I bought both, keep yapping and we’ll be switching. She hasn’t said a word since.

An old Matrix is definitely a car I'd like to own. Sort of a hatch version of my beloved Echo. Sadly, neither are in production anymore because people are idiots.

 

[massraider]

Lease on our Lexus SUV is up in March. We went in and they said that leasing another would be double what we're paying a month now. No thanks. We're taking the option to extend the current lease 6 months and will re-evaluate then.

I have not seen any strong arguments for leasing right now. And I have been looking

 

[Jobber]

I actually have a vehicle I ordered (VW id.4) that still hasn't come. I ordered it back in August.

I'm actually getting another car instead but, since the deposit is fully refundable, if I don't decide to buy it, I still haven't cancelled the order. When it finally gets produced and arrives, if the market is similar, I'm going to consider buying it and then sell it myself. This dealer isn't charging any markup. The issue for buyers is that there is still limited inventory for certain vehicles and the wait on an order is just so long.

I have an ID4 and love it. I assume the other car you’re getting is an EV. Not paying for gas feels like stealing.

Which version did you get? Still looking at a id4 but there are some funny decisions they made with one pedal driving and some funky software decisions that has me rethinking it.

I have a 2021 Pro RWD. We’re at 29,000 miles since June ‘21. For most EV buyers, you’re not just replacing a gas vehicle for an EV, but you also tend to drive your other gas vehicle(s) less frequently as well. The EV gets used for all the errands, running around town, etc. so realistically it’s replaced about 1.5 cars, if that makes sense.

The car itself is pretty basic as far as EVs go. But the build quality is great. It’s super quiet with very little road noise. I will say it was *** in the snow last winter so we got Blizzak snow tires and it’s been fantastic ever since.

Cost-wise, it’s about $25-30 a month to charge it at home ($.048/kw). Saves boatloads in gas money.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

My 20 year old Tacoma

Have an '02 MDX and the shop just told me they wouldn't be surprised if it had 100k miles left in it. Kind of ready to move on, so wasn't sure how I felt about that one.

Speaking of moving on... anyone have strong opinions about the Honda HRV?

 

[The Z Machine]

I'm still driving the first car I ever owned, 2007 Honda Fit. Only 115k miles.

 

[-OZ-]

Regarding the car market, the easy and long-term financing has caused a lot of this. How much do you want to pay per month? 600? Sure here's a 96 month loan.

You'd be upside down on that thing for most of that loan. Then if you want to upgrade again before it's paid off they will just roll the balance into the loan on the new car over a 108 month term. It's almost like people don't understand anything about personal finances.

That’s basically how dealerships survive.
My wife has been dropping hints for the past few years that she wants a new SUV to replace our perfectly fine 2011 Honda odyssey. I’ve been saying we’ll look when the next kid leaves the house. Really though I’m hoping to keep it until our youngest graduates HS in ten years.
Haven’t had an auto payment in a decade with two Hondas and two Toyotas.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

Anyone have any insight on replacing the batteries in hybrids and/or evs? I’m hearing that it’s crazy expensive. And how many hours do they normally last? Or is it miles?

 

[The Z Machine]

Anyone have any insight on replacing the batteries in hybrids and/or evs? I’m hearing that it’s crazy expensive. And how many hours do they normally last? Or is it miles?

Yes, it's cray expensive as the batteries are a major component cost for the entire vehicle. Typically, its an age + charge cycles thing. I don't know how the performance drops off as a function of those items, but it's likely that the performance hit would come at range on a full charge. As the batteries get used, their ability to hold charge decreases, which decreases the range of the vehicle. Just like your cell phone battery not lasting as long after charging to full after 3 years. I think that the EV batteries have better longevity than cell phone batteries, but I'm not sure how much better.

Finally, there's been work on this area in the last 5 years, such that the range of 2018 Tesla may fall off faster than a 2023 Tesla.

 

[Senor Schmutzig]

Looking back, my wife and I have only bought four new cars over the past 30 years.

1996 Honda Civic Coupe- Sold in 2006 after our son was born. Needed something with four doors as we were dealing with a car sea
2000 Jeep Cherokee Limited 160k miles - Still own and is a daily driver -
2007 Nissan Murano - 115k miles - Still own and is a daily driver
2018 Audi Q5 - 60k miles - Put $10k down and the monthly payment on a 5-year loan was right about what my company paid as a car allowance. A daily driver

As you can see, we tend to buy and hold. I'll have a tough time getting rid of my Jeep whenever that happens so the Murano will probably be the next to go. The opening in the back is huge compared to my other two SUV's so we tend to use it to haul everything. That will be missed.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

https://twitter.com/GuyDealership
@GuyDealership
Average auto loan rates (January):
New cars: 8.41%
Used cars: 12.88% (!!)
Both at decade-highs.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Auto repairs: 1st of all this thread made me realize it's far better to have some repairs done on my car or some preventative maintenance I had been holding off and rather than try to chase down a good deal on a used car or even a new EV since I was romancing that idea, and just prefer to hang on to what i have and fix some things up. Maybe I will sell this old Volvo for more than i thought I could but then I still have to find a new car to purchase or flip into.

I was holding off on new tires, 4 BF Goodrich out the door with tax and everything almost $900 which seemed high to me. I thought normal tires on a 4 door sedan should be in the $600 range but maybe I'm fooling myself. Michelin were almost $1,100 for 4 new tires. But still, this pales in comparison to purchasing a new car right now or a used-new car.

I also did some recon work and the best deal I could find that I felt was worth the money was a 2020/2021 S60, 10K miles on a big dealer lot in WPB and they had lowered the asking price to $27,999 or $28k which for a car with super low miles, still a little high but wasn't as outlandish as I was expecting. More miles, maybe around $25k-$26k, still a nice ride vs any new car under $30k, much rather shop the used market.

Toyo45k-$660, BFGood65k-$825, Michelin-$1,050 and Continental about the same as Michelin
Prices are 4 tires and all the tax, mounting and any other jargon they can squeeze in there

 

[Ron Swanson]

Anyone have any insight on replacing the batteries in hybrids and/or evs? I’m hearing that it’s crazy expensive. And how many hours do they normally last? Or is it miles?

Yes, it's cray expensive as the batteries are a major component cost for the entire vehicle. Typically, its an age + charge cycles thing. I don't know how the performance drops off as a function of those items, but it's likely that the performance hit would come at range on a full charge. As the batteries get used, their ability to hold charge decreases, which decreases the range of the vehicle. Just like your cell phone battery not lasting as long after charging to full after 3 years. I think that the EV batteries have better longevity than cell phone batteries, but I'm not sure how much better.

Finally, there's been work on this area in the last 5 years, such that the range of 2018 Tesla may fall off faster than a 2023 Tesla.

Most EV owners only charge to 80-90% to help prolong battery life. This is recommended by the manufacturers. All EVs sold in the US have an 8 year battery warranty. We're just now starting to see the point in the market where some of the early Tesla's are hitting that point in any numbers. Early degradation has been less than expected. The thought is that when degradation occurs more significantly those vehicles wind up in shorter haul local and commuter service where the owner has on site Level 2 charging. So batteries are more likely going to be replaced for cell failure rather than degradation.

Additionally, aftermarket battery suppliers are starting to ramp up which will put pressure on the replacement battery costs to some degree.

 

[BeTheMatch]

Auto repairs: 1st of all this thread made me realize it's far better to have some repairs done on my car or some preventative maintenance I had been holding off and rather than try to chase down a good deal on a used car or even a new EV since I was romancing that idea, and just prefer to hang on to what i have and fix some things up. Maybe I will sell this old Volvo for more than i thought I could but then I still have to find a new car to purchase or flip into.

I was holding off on new tires, 4 BF Goodrich out the door with tax and everything almost $900 which seemed high to me. I thought normal tires on a 4 door sedan should be in the $600 range but maybe I'm fooling myself. Michelin were almost $1,100 for 4 new tires. But still, this pales in comparison to purchasing a new car right now or a used-new car.

I also did some recon work and the best deal I could find that I felt was worth the money was a 2020/2021 S60, 10K miles on a big dealer lot in WPB and they had lowered the asking price to $27,999 or $28k which for a car with super low miles, still a little high but wasn't as outlandish as I was expecting. More miles, maybe around $25k-$26k, still a nice ride vs any new car under $30k, much rather shop the used market.

Toyo45k-$660, BFGood65k-$825, Michelin-$1,050 and Continental about the same as Michelin
Prices are 4 tires and all the tax, mounting and any other jargon they can squeeze in there

I don't know where you're looking for tires, but Discount Tire is the best place to go for price and service. Can't recommend a place any more highly than them.

 

[Juxtatarot]

Anyone have any insight on replacing the batteries in hybrids and/or evs? I’m hearing that it’s crazy expensive. And how many hours do they normally last? Or is it miles?

Yes, it's cray expensive as the batteries are a major component cost for the entire vehicle. Typically, its an age + charge cycles thing. I don't know how the performance drops off as a function of those items, but it's likely that the performance hit would come at range on a full charge. As the batteries get used, their ability to hold charge decreases, which decreases the range of the vehicle. Just like your cell phone battery not lasting as long after charging to full after 3 years. I think that the EV batteries have better longevity than cell phone batteries, but I'm not sure how much better.

Finally, there's been work on this area in the last 5 years, such that the range of 2018 Tesla may fall off faster than a 2023 Tesla.

Would a battery on a hybrid be similar? (Performance decrease over time.)

I ask as someone with a 9+ year old hybrid car.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

Anyone have any insight on replacing the batteries in hybrids and/or evs? I’m hearing that it’s crazy expensive. And how many hours do they normally last? Or is it miles?

Yes, it's cray expensive as the batteries are a major component cost for the entire vehicle. Typically, its an age + charge cycles thing. I don't know how the performance drops off as a function of those items, but it's likely that the performance hit would come at range on a full charge. As the batteries get used, their ability to hold charge decreases, which decreases the range of the vehicle. Just like your cell phone battery not lasting as long after charging to full after 3 years. I think that the EV batteries have better longevity than cell phone batteries, but I'm not sure how much better.

Finally, there's been work on this area in the last 5 years, such that the range of 2018 Tesla may fall off faster than a 2023 Tesla.

Would a battery on a hybrid be similar? (Performance decrease over time.)

I ask as someone with a 9+ year old hybrid car.

Do you notice a decrease in performance I’m interested in a hybrid for my next car, but am hesitant hearing about insanely expensive battery replacement. I’m a buy and drive it into the ground guy.

 

[Juxtatarot]

Anyone have any insight on replacing the batteries in hybrids and/or evs? I’m hearing that it’s crazy expensive. And how many hours do they normally last? Or is it miles?

Yes, it's cray expensive as the batteries are a major component cost for the entire vehicle. Typically, its an age + charge cycles thing. I don't know how the performance drops off as a function of those items, but it's likely that the performance hit would come at range on a full charge. As the batteries get used, their ability to hold charge decreases, which decreases the range of the vehicle. Just like your cell phone battery not lasting as long after charging to full after 3 years. I think that the EV batteries have better longevity than cell phone batteries, but I'm not sure how much better.

Finally, there's been work on this area in the last 5 years, such that the range of 2018 Tesla may fall off faster than a 2023 Tesla.

Would a battery on a hybrid be similar? (Performance decrease over time.)

I ask as someone with a 9+ year old hybrid car.

Do you notice a decrease in performance I’m interested in a hybrid for my next car, but am hesitant hearing about insanely expensive battery replacement. I’m a buy and drive it into the ground guy.

I do not. It’s a 2014 Fusion (purchased summer of 2013). It’s been a fantastically reliable car. I usually don’t keep cars this long but I keep pushing off buying a new one.

 

[Willy]

Anyone have any insight on replacing the batteries in hybrids and/or evs? I’m hearing that it’s crazy expensive. And how many hours do they normally last? Or is it miles?

Yes, it's cray expensive as the batteries are a major component cost for the entire vehicle. Typically, its an age + charge cycles thing. I don't know how the performance drops off as a function of those items, but it's likely that the performance hit would come at range on a full charge. As the batteries get used, their ability to hold charge decreases, which decreases the range of the vehicle. Just like your cell phone battery not lasting as long after charging to full after 3 years. I think that the EV batteries have better longevity than cell phone batteries, but I'm not sure how much better.

Finally, there's been work on this area in the last 5 years, such that the range of 2018 Tesla may fall off faster than a 2023 Tesla.

Would a battery on a hybrid be similar? (Performance decrease over time.)

I ask as someone with a 9+ year old hybrid car.

Do you notice a decrease in performance I’m interested in a hybrid for my next car, but am hesitant hearing about insanely expensive battery replacement. I’m a buy and drive it into the ground guy.

I do not. It’s a 2014 Fusion (purchased summer of 2013). It’s been a fantastically reliable car. I usually don’t keep cars this long but I keep pushing off buying a new one.

My kid in college has a 2009 Camry Hybrid with 200k miles. It's been in the family for 9 years. I haven't noticed any degradation, but I'm really only watching MPG. I have no way of knowing if there's 20% less capacity if it hasn't shown up in MPG. Never had it tested or anything.

 

[dkp993]

Anyone have any insight on replacing the batteries in hybrids and/or evs? I’m hearing that it’s crazy expensive. And how many hours do they normally last? Or is it miles?

Yes, it's cray expensive as the batteries are a major component cost for the entire vehicle. Typically, its an age + charge cycles thing. I don't know how the performance drops off as a function of those items, but it's likely that the performance hit would come at range on a full charge. As the batteries get used, their ability to hold charge decreases, which decreases the range of the vehicle. Just like your cell phone battery not lasting as long after charging to full after 3 years. I think that the EV batteries have better longevity than cell phone batteries, but I'm not sure how much better.

Finally, there's been work on this area in the last 5 years, such that the range of 2018 Tesla may fall off faster than a 2023 Tesla.

Would a battery on a hybrid be similar? (Performance decrease over time.)

I ask as someone with a 9+ year old hybrid car.

Do you notice a decrease in performance I’m interested in a hybrid for my next car, but am hesitant hearing about insanely expensive battery replacement. I’m a buy and drive it into the ground guy.

I own a ‘16 Lexus GS450h (hybrid). Just passed 70k with not a single issue or change in performance.

 

[culdeus]

Anyone have any insight on replacing the batteries in hybrids and/or evs? I’m hearing that it’s crazy expensive. And how many hours do they normally last? Or is it miles?

Yes, it's cray expensive as the batteries are a major component cost for the entire vehicle. Typically, its an age + charge cycles thing. I don't know how the performance drops off as a function of those items, but it's likely that the performance hit would come at range on a full charge. As the batteries get used, their ability to hold charge decreases, which decreases the range of the vehicle. Just like your cell phone battery not lasting as long after charging to full after 3 years. I think that the EV batteries have better longevity than cell phone batteries, but I'm not sure how much better.

Finally, there's been work on this area in the last 5 years, such that the range of 2018 Tesla may fall off faster than a 2023 Tesla.

Most EV owners only charge to 80-90% to help prolong battery life. This is recommended by the manufacturers. All EVs sold in the US have an 8 year battery warranty. We're just now starting to see the point in the market where some of the early Tesla's are hitting that point in any numbers. Early degradation has been less than expected. The thought is that when degradation occurs more significantly those vehicles wind up in shorter haul local and commuter service where the owner has on site Level 2 charging. So batteries are more likely going to be replaced for cell failure rather than degradation.

Additionally, aftermarket battery suppliers are starting to ramp up which will put pressure on the replacement battery costs to some degree.

A bigger factor is drivers aren't going 100-0 daily like they do with phones. Bouncing from 40-70 daily is nothing.

 

[Sand]

I'm still driving the first car I ever owned, 2007 Honda Fit. Only 115k miles.

I have a 2009 that was the first new car I've bought. Only reason I'm not driving it is the 17 year old has it. Amazing hauling car - 150k on it and still going strong. The ultimate would be a PHEV version of it. Of course, we can't get a new one at all anymore.

You would not believe the **** I have hauled with that thing. Latest one was 8 16 ft. 2x4s. Who needs an F150?

 

[cashman88]

I recently replaced the battery in my 2011 Toyota Highlander, and used Green Tec Auto. New battery was about $4,000 (4 year warranty) - $6,000, reconditioned batteries were $3400 (36 month warranty) and $2700 (18 month warranty). I got the $2700 version because I'm trading in the car soon anyway.

One thing I didn't realize when my battery died is that a Toyota hybrid vehicle will not drive without a working battery. When my battery died, my first reaction was that I'd leave it dead and just use the gas engine, but that doesn't work and the car needs the battery to operate.

 

[New Binky the Doormat]

FYI ...looks like you ought to wait until after tax refund season to buy a used car ...if you can wait
https://twitter.com/GuyDealership
CarDealershipGuy

@GuyDealership
·
49m
https://twitter.com/GuyDealership
You heard it here first: Used car prices have now gone up *2 months in a row* Last time this happened: Peak of 2021

 

[The Z Machine]

I'm still driving the first car I ever owned, 2007 Honda Fit. Only 115k miles.

I have a 2009 that was the first new car I've bought. Only reason I'm not driving it is the 17 year old has it. Amazing hauling car - 150k on it and still going strong. The ultimate would be a PHEV version of it. Of course, we can't get a new one at all anymore.

You would not believe the **** I have hauled with that thing. Latest one was 8 16 ft. 2x4s. Who needs an F150?

Dude, I have hauled all sorts of thing in my Fit. It's insane how much interior space it has and how flexible the seating is. You give up road noise and back seat comfort for that space flexibility, but hot damn the Honda engineers knew what they were doing there.

I would love a PHEV version (or even a full EV) of this car. My only complaint has been that the bumpers are crappy and don't hold up to the beating of city parking as well as I'd like.

 

[sushinsky4tsar]

Raised in a family that doesn't believe in car payments. Driving a used 2015 Honda Civic around the northern US for the last 5 years. Got it at 26K miles, up to 88K. It has been economical, but man alive..... it's eating away at my soul this snowy winter.

I could really use a pick-me-up....

Enter an ad for an 2004 F-150 with 200K miles on it Asking $4,000 OBO. Checks all the boxes for what you would like to see in a CL ad for a very high mileage vehicle (single owner, cosmetic defects well documented, affluent part of town). Appears to have potential for "good" fair condition that's in the neighborhood of $1K below KBB private party at their full asking price.

If I check it out and it runs as well as can be expected, just how bad of an idea would it be to shell out $3800 on something like this? I mean, is there any chance I could have good luck, get 30-40K miles and a few years out of it? Or would it just be an instant and unrelenting cash drain from the moment of purchase at that kind of mileage? I would never throw away $5K with that kind of mileage, but.... I might be open to gambling if it's checking in below $4K. Something like this is probably the only avenue in which someone like me might actually own a truck in my life. Is this as bad of an idea as I'm thinking it probably is?

 

[Ron Swanson]

Raised in a family that doesn't believe in car payments. Driving a used 2015 Honda Civic around the northern US for the last 5 years. Got it at 26K miles, up to 88K. It has been economical, but man alive..... it's eating away at my soul this snowy winter.

I could really use a pick-me-up....

Enter an ad for an 2004 F-150 with 200K miles on it Asking $4,000 OBO. Checks all the boxes for what you would like to see in a CL ad for a very high mileage vehicle (single owner, cosmetic defects well documented, affluent part of town). Appears to have potential for "good" fair condition that's in the neighborhood of $1K below KBB private party at their full asking price.

If I check it out and it runs as well as can be expected, just how bad of an idea would it be to shell out $3800 on something like this? I mean, is there any chance I could have good luck, get 30-40K miles and a few years out of it? Or would it just be an instant and unrelenting cash drain from the moment of purchase at that kind of mileage? I would never throw away $5K with that kind of mileage, but.... I might be open to gambling if it's checking in below $4K. Something like this is probably the only avenue in which someone like me might actually own a truck in my life. Is this as bad of an idea as I'm thinking it probably is?

If you're comfortable watching some YouTube videos and wrenching some yourself I don't think it's a terrible idea. But check the F-150 owner forums and make sure the engine/tranny, etc. doesn't have any huge known problems that haven't been addressed. There's a group of people out there on the internet somewhere that know more about that truck than Ford at this point. You just have to find them.

 

[Mister CIA]

My brother has a Toyota Tundra, not sure what year, with 450,000 miles.

 

[Harry Frogfish]

Any used Toyota/Lexus from someone over 50 with around 50K (100K if you really want a deal), preferably female, who's selling it because it's time for a "new" car. Like getting her nails done.

This will crush the minutia of what type or month you should be buying a used car, in the long run. Total no-brainer.

 

[pollardsvision]

Raised in a family that doesn't believe in car payments. Driving a used 2015 Honda Civic around the northern US for the last 5 years. Got it at 26K miles, up to 88K. It has been economical, but man alive..... it's eating away at my soul this snowy winter.

I could really use a pick-me-up....

Enter an ad for an 2004 F-150 with 200K miles on it Asking $4,000 OBO. Checks all the boxes for what you would like to see in a CL ad for a very high mileage vehicle (single owner, cosmetic defects well documented, affluent part of town). Appears to have potential for "good" fair condition that's in the neighborhood of $1K below KBB private party at their full asking price.

If I check it out and it runs as well as can be expected, just how bad of an idea would it be to shell out $3800 on something like this? I mean, is there any chance I could have good luck, get 30-40K miles and a few years out of it? Or would it just be an instant and unrelenting cash drain from the moment of purchase at that kind of mileage? I would never throw away $5K with that kind of mileage, but.... I might be open to gambling if it's checking in below $4K. Something like this is probably the only avenue in which someone like me might actually own a truck in my life. Is this as bad of an idea as I'm thinking it probably is?

I almost exclusively drive high mileage vehicles. 250-300K. Except my '03 Subaru that's still a baby at 135K.

I wouldn't worry about the miles. At some point, all vehicles are just a collection of parts. If it drives okay, and seems okay, it just comes down to how much you want to spend.

I don't even have mechanics look at them. I know everybody says too, but all the good mechanics I know are too busy doing real work to help me shop for a car. Some would, I'm sure, but I ain't bothering them with it.

But anyway, that's the point of buying cheap cars.
I have a very scientific formula for how much car someone can afford.......If you took this amount of money into the backyard and set it on fire, would you be screwed financially? If the answer is no, you are spending about the right amount. At some point, all cars will be worth $0. We just don't know when.

Anyway, if you like the truck, go for it. $3500-3800ish sounds like a solid deal on an F150 with 200K. Around here, any truck that runs at all is going to for at least $2K (don't even remember the last time I saw on that cheap though).

Something breaks, fix it. Gets to a point that it doesn't seem worth fixing, don't. It's a very different situation than dropping $20K on a depreciation buggy.

Nothing about what you are describing sounds dumb at all.

Obviously, the more due diligence, like Ron is talking about, to make a sound decision the better.