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CB/WR Travis Hunter, JAX (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
It will be pretty sad if Travis Hunter ends up in Cleveland, agreed
The offense even with the signing of ole Flacco again is pretty bad overall
Ford is your RB1 right now, OL is questionable and the best WR is Jerry Jeudy
On one hand he should have an easy time being the starter but Cleveland is mostly a wasteland of players.
I get spanked every time I fall for one of their guys be it injury or just subpar performance, Njoku last year was difficult on rosters
I'll gladly let someone else take the Nestea plunge on him in Dynasty for non-IDP formats
The offense even with the signing of ole Flacco again is pretty bad overall
Ford is your RB1 right now, OL is questionable and the best WR is Jerry Jeudy
On one hand he should have an easy time being the starter but Cleveland is mostly a wasteland of players.
I get spanked every time I fall for one of their guys be it injury or just subpar performance, Njoku last year was difficult on rosters
I'll gladly let someone else take the Nestea plunge on him in Dynasty for non-IDP formats
ghostguy123
Footballguy
I see zero chance he'd be an effective two way player. Would be fun to see and hope I'm wrong, but no
Ilov80s
Footballguy
If he was a full time CB and was used on 5-10 snaps on offense a game, I think he could be effective as a decoy or 4th WR.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
If that was Indeed the case, doesn't sound like something that deserves super high draft capital.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Yeah for dynasty he’s a total crapshoot. Range of outcomes is anywhere between literally sees 0 snaps on offense to Justin Jefferson.
osubuckeyeman
Footballguy
It depends on where he falls in rookie drafts. I see him going between picks 1.3 and 1.8, regardless of where he lands and whether he is a full or part-time receiver.
There has been so much talk and debate on Hunter that someone will take him in that range. I cut back to one league, and I'm not in that range so that it won't be a debate for me. I will not have a shot at him, regardless. I would pull the trigger there if I had the 1.6 to 1.8.
titusbramble
Footballguy
I can't see how he isn't used as a CB first and only entering on the offensive side of the ball in 3/4 WR sets (dependent on whether a side's base offense is 11 personnel or not) to limit snap count and for ease of playbook learning. Then again, at the same time, I could also see WR first then just entering on the other side in nickel packages for precisely the same reasons, just the opposite way. Think that the only thing that is certain is he's not playing anywhere close to 100% of snaps on both sides of the ball
eighsse2
Footballguy
You're saying even if it were established that the plan is for him to be a part-time receiver, you'd expect no lower than 1.08?? I'd expect 1.08 at the absolute bonkers maximum in that case. More like 3.08 average.
osubuckeyeman
Footballguy
Even if the team says he will only be a part-receiver, he will not get past the first round, at the latest. Consider yourself lucky if he escapes the first round in any format, even if the team says he will only be used as a part-time receiver. The reason is that he will be used in the red zone and max needed situations. He is at least the best receiver in the class and has the best ball skills. In that situation, I would be happy to burn a late 1st for Hunter. And I know I'm not the only one. The risk is very much worth getting completely burned.
osubuckeyeman
Footballguy
The only thing that could cause me to pause would be if the team said he is a full-time corner and will not be used in any situation on offense. I still don't think I would completely take him off my board in a scenario where a team claims only to want to use Hunter as a corner. He is far and away too good of an offensive weapon to be ignored even by a stubborn NFL team, though I do not think this is the situation. Based on what the rumor mill says, he is telling teams he wants to be considered a WR. I can see him more in a WR room and used sparingly on defense, which would be in special packages.
osubuckeyeman
Footballguy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kY4oPcrzxzU&t=1091s Colorado Pro Day Discussion on Hunter playing WR or Corner. Between 13:56 to 14:41
Just for some reference, from 13:56 to 14:41, DJ, Bucky Brooks, and Rhett Lewis discuss what Hunter wants to do, including Bucky Brooks quoting Deion Sanders about what Hunter is telling teams. I heard more of the same during the combine. This does not mean a team won't change his mind, but I see more of this being the correct evaluation.
Just for some reference, from 13:56 to 14:41, DJ, Bucky Brooks, and Rhett Lewis discuss what Hunter wants to do, including Bucky Brooks quoting Deion Sanders about what Hunter is telling teams. I heard more of the same during the combine. This does not mean a team won't change his mind, but I see more of this being the correct evaluation.
taylormeetstheismann
Footballguy
I don’t like it. Neither in redraft or contract.
pinkstapler
Footballguy
Going to the Giants feels horrid for fantasy. No QB, if you draft one this year it wouldn't be any of the top 3 or 4 from an already poor class, and they have Nabers who already looks like a top 5 NFL WR. Nabers not only caps his ceiling, but reigns in the pressure to give him meaningful snaps at WR over CB. I might root for this with you just to remove any temptation I have to draft Hunter for fantasy lol.
Faust
MVP
NFL Network
What will be the biggest challenge for Travis Hunter playing both offense and defense?
@BuckyBrooks and @MoveTheSticks break it down
Soulfly3
Footballguy
Soulfly3
Footballguy
he'll get to find out first hand, at least 2x per season
Grahamburn
Footballguy
Shouldn't be too difficult to structure it for him to be a full time CB and then have sub-packages on 3rd/4th downs where he's a WR. Then 2:00 drill end of half/game in obvious passing situations.
Willie Mays Hayes
Footballguy
I think Cleveland will have him as a full-time WR in on defense in nickel packages. The big question is what the QB situation is going to be for Hunter over the next few years as they transition away from Voldemort.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
I'm not going to look it up but I think most NFL defenses typically play about 70% in nickel or dime, so with this set up he's essentially a two-way player.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
So in a few years would he want to be paid like a top WR and top DB combined?? 50 million a year?
metoo
Footballguy
He’s my 1.1 but I’m glad some are coming around to 1.2.
ZWK
Footballguy
I have Hunter as the top WR prospect in this class as well as the top CB prospect. If I was drafting him in the top 3, it would be with the aim of making him a 2-way player. Not just so he can play more snaps, but also so that he can be on the field for more of the high-leverage snaps. But that would be a multiyear goal, maybe something to aim for by year 3, not an expectation for him as a rookie. And I'd be ready to pivot to making him a single-position player.
If he turns into a good NFL player at both WR & CB, he might be on the field for 1.2x as many snaps as any other player, perhaps 70-80% of the time at his main position and 40-50% of the time at his second position. He can be on the field more when it matters most, like in the two-minute drill, on 3rd downs, in the red zone, and in the playoffs. He can some rest when the offense is on their own side of the field, and early in blowouts. In the second half of close games he can play more defense if we're leading and more offense if we're trailing. Playing 1.2x a normal set of snaps can be worth a lot more than 1.2x the value of one good player (maybe 1.5x?).
But getting to the point where he's good at both WR & CB will probably take multiple years. It often takes players a year or two to get good at one position, and he's trying to do it at 2. I'd want to get him a full offseason where he's mostly focused on CB and a full offseason where he's mostly focused on WR. If he has some struggles early at his primary position then maybe it'll make sense to get him to focus just on developing at that position. And if it turns out that he's much better on one side of the ball than the other (e.g. he's Sauce Gardner + Tyler Boyd) then the team is better off with him playing mostly or entirely at the position he's better at.
If he turns into a good NFL player at both WR & CB, he might be on the field for 1.2x as many snaps as any other player, perhaps 70-80% of the time at his main position and 40-50% of the time at his second position. He can be on the field more when it matters most, like in the two-minute drill, on 3rd downs, in the red zone, and in the playoffs. He can some rest when the offense is on their own side of the field, and early in blowouts. In the second half of close games he can play more defense if we're leading and more offense if we're trailing. Playing 1.2x a normal set of snaps can be worth a lot more than 1.2x the value of one good player (maybe 1.5x?).
But getting to the point where he's good at both WR & CB will probably take multiple years. It often takes players a year or two to get good at one position, and he's trying to do it at 2. I'd want to get him a full offseason where he's mostly focused on CB and a full offseason where he's mostly focused on WR. If he has some struggles early at his primary position then maybe it'll make sense to get him to focus just on developing at that position. And if it turns out that he's much better on one side of the ball than the other (e.g. he's Sauce Gardner + Tyler Boyd) then the team is better off with him playing mostly or entirely at the position he's better at.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Baseball scouts were asked if they wanted a pitching prospect with only two great pitches or one who was good with a full array of pitches and to a man, they said they wanted the guy who has two great pitches. They said, you win with two great pitches.
Now, you might think 'Aha Travis is the guy who doesn't have two great pitches, he's the guy who is only good at two positions and the master of none.'
No, he is THEE GUY with uber ball skills that he used to dominate two positions. He anticipates and breaks on the ball on offense and defense. He doesn't have the 'full array' of technical skill/ability at both positions because that takes years of in-depth film study with coached-up repetition.
His unique and superior skills CAN be utilized on both sides immediately if properly spot used. He obviously wouldn't be a full-time two-way player and may never be. He has incredible ball skills that can be utilized.
I would expect him to be used as a full-time WR and sparingly used as a part-time corner unless an injury happens to a full-time starter, and he is forced into action on one-side of the ball.
warpig33
Footballguy
So here are a couple of issues with that...
1) What if the team drafts him and says he's going to play WR? Or WR AND CB? (since obviously I don't think any of us fantasy ballers would draft a CB in the first round)
And what if that team, after a year or two, figures he'd be more of an asset to them at CB with a handful of WR plays? That would totally screw over any fantasy footballer that drafted him in the early rounds.
2) How would fantasy football sites (MFL for example) designate his position?
I tried that argument about 20 years ago. Was office manager and assumed IT admin duties. Brought my case that a 20% salary bump was worth more to the company since they reduced IT overhead by 100%. Fired me but had me stay on to train my replacement. Maybe it'll work out better for him. . .
ZWK
Footballguy
Fantasy value and NFL value can really come apart for two-way players.
Let's say Hunter goes to Cleveland and turns into Justin Jefferson at WR, but he only gets 75% of the workload and production that Jefferson gets because he's also Sauce Gardner on defense (where he gets 50% the workload that Gardner does). For the Browns' offense, he is worth more than 75% as much as Justin Jefferson because he's on the field for all the high leverage plays and on the bench for relatively unimportant plays. He might be worth 85% as much as a full time WR would be, even though he's just getting 75% of the snaps/targets/yards.
But for fantasy (non-IDP), if he has 75% of Jefferson's production that means that he's getting about 15 PPR ppg instead of Jefferson's 20 ppg. 20 points per game puts you in contention for WR1 each season, 15 makes you a mid-range WR2. Baseline WR performance is about 11 ppg, which means that he's getting 4 points over baseline per game instead of 9. 75% of Jefferson's production is about 44% as valuable for winning at fantasy football, vs. 85% as valuable for winning NFL games.
Willie Mays Hayes
Footballguy
If he is Justin Jefferson on the field as WR, he won't be getting his snaps limited on offense so he can plan defense. I get it though; this is going to be a controversial speculation for some period of time because there really aren't any comps for this type of player. That's why he comes with some level of risk for the dynasty team that drafts him.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Ohtani would like a word
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
Bloom's 100 has him basically at 1.02... I just don't know I can pull that trigger and get a CB that will get gadget WR plays over some very good RBs
cdclopper
Footballguy
I love it, thats where I have him too. My opinion is it's safe to assume he's playing one position. Best case he's peppered in here and there on his second position. Even tho he's amazing he's only one man.
So which position will he play? Gotta be receiver. It's why Lamar plays qb and not rb. If you have a great hitter who can play catcher or 1st, you play him at catcher. When you look at contract values in the NFL, clearly atleast according to GMs, wide receiver is the more valuable position.
Soulfly3
Footballguy
I love it, because they're feeding into what the player seems to want - a chance to play both sides.
I personally can't see it, but if they weren't wanting to take him, it'd be easy for a coach to say "hes a WR or he's a CB" - they're answering how a team who want to take him would answer.
And I really, really hope he's the pick.
MAC_32
Footballguy
He will be the #2 pick.
