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Charcandrick WEST - Should we be talking about this kid ? (1 Viewer)

Bri said:
bud29 said:
I could get on board with playing Daniel to see if he can handle the starting job. Hammond? He's not awful, but I think our starting WRs are fine.
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That's the problem.

Wilson has 1 or 2 catches a game. This week Conley gets the nod and gets 1 catch.

Move onto 3rd WRs and it's no different.

Move onto 4th WR and Avant has a whopping 9 catches over 5 games which pathetically is better than all other WRs except Maclin.

Reid is going too much based on talent and potential and needs to shift toward results. Hammond Jr isn't as fast or as athletic as those ahead of him but knows how to get open and catches everything.

Every week Kelce or Maclin is smothered. One (or two) WRs producing would help tremendously.

Get another TE and put Kelce in the slot and put the leprechaun at receving TE.

Since only Charles catches passes, put Thomas as 3rd down back.

Something, anything, just as long as Reid reacts.

A guy like Hammonds Jr (or cut Fred Williams) could very likely light a fire under the other WRs. Let their egos say "I'm better than him" and prove it. One catch is garbage, geesh Tyrod Taylor did that.
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The production of our WRs outside of Maclin has been nonexistent. However, I'm really not sure if this is an issue with the WRs. It seems like Reid calls a very rigid game, with certain plays designed to go to certain WRs (usually Maclin). Conley got open several times in the game against Cincy, but Smith was rarely looking his way. He was also under pressure a ton.

That's Conley at the bottom of the screen, very shortly after the ball was snapped. Could've been a TD if Smith wasn't already on his back.

Albert Wilson against the packers here. This one's on Smith. He has a bad habit of not keeping his eyes up once there's pressure. Could've been a really nice gain instead of a scramble for a few yards.

 
Omniscient Deity said:
Great football name.

But seriously, he's a decent runner from what I've seen of him this pre-season. Like how decisive he is with his runs. I was high on Knile simply because his measurables are impressive but it seems like he lacks vision as a runner.
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I think he just passed Dave Butz, for the second best name in sports. Behind **** Trickle.

 
Any chance of seeing West and Davis on at once? Any chance Thomas gets some RB reps and gets value being listed as WR FF wise?

 
Kilgore said:
Omniscient Deity said:
Great football name.

But seriously, he's a decent runner from what I've seen of him this pre-season. Like how decisive he is with his runs. I was high on Knile simply because his measurables are impressive but it seems like he lacks vision as a runner.
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I think he just passed Dave Butz, for the second best name in sports. Behind **** Trickle.
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Navy football had Wave Ryder (graduated) and now has his brother Blaze Ryder

 
josefrees said:
Any chance of seeing West and Davis on at once? Any chance Thomas gets some RB reps and gets value being listed as WR FF wise?
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KC hasn't used 2-RB sets very much this year. Not sure how much Reid will be altering the gameplan with Charles out.

I don't think this affects Thomas's usage much - he really made it a point in the offseason to learn routes and transition into a full-time slot WR.

 
I'm rolling the dice and placing about 90% of my remaining FAAB on West. I'm thin at RB (especially with extent of Forsett injury unknown right now), and this seems to be the best scenario to take a shot at a player in an ideal situation. We are roughly 40% through regular fantasy season, and I'd rather gamble now, then get stuck with waiver $$ in my hands to use on.

 
I'm pushing my chips all in. This may be the best opportunity this season to get an every-week RB starter capable of making a difference. Injuries happen all the time, but you usually just get a temporary fill-in until the starter comes back. Charles won't be coming back this season.

 
Ok devil's advocate: what do we really know about West? Passes the eye test (for those who have actually seen him), what else? Resume?

 
Casting Couch said:
Another stellar game tonight. Kid is looking the part. It's not a stretch to see him take over the #2 job from Knife Davis.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2015/08/18/chiefs-charcandrick-west-catching-passes-turning-heads/31920253/

28 carries

136 yards

45 yards rec
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In an otherwise sloppy training camp practice, little-used running back Charcandrick West gave Chiefs coach Andy Reid a moment to smile.

The diminutive backup headed out on a passing play, and quarterback Chase Daniel lofted a pass to him. But the throw wobbled off to the right, and West had to reach back with one hand to snare the ball. Then, in one fluid motion, he spun up field and ran for a touchdown.

Not only did Reid smile, the crowd watching let out a collective, "Oh!"

"Charcandrick, he can do everything," Reid said.

The Chiefs need him to do a little bit of everything, too.

The former undrafted free agent out of Abilene Christian fought his way onto the team a year ago and played in six games. But West was merely a special teams player, making more tackles (one) than he had carries, catches or yards from scrimmage.

But the Chiefs evidently thought highly enough of West that they were willing to release Cyrus Gray early in training camp, all but giving him the No. 3 running back job. Those carries, catches and yards will still be hard to come by with Jamaal Charles and Knile Davis ahead of him, but like any other player, West is only an injury away from moving up a rung on the ladder.

"He's got great quickness. So that's a positive from that standpoint. It makes him a little bit different from the other two," Reid said. "He's a little bit smaller, so it's a different look than the other two guys in a positive way."

West had a chance to showcase that speed in Saturday's preseason opener in Arizona, when Charles basically got the night off and Davis got banged up. He responded by hauling in a 20-yard catch to help set up a touchdown, and ran six times for 49 yards. His 92 yards from scrimmage were a team-high in the 34-19 victory.

Perhaps most importantly, he proved that he isn't a liability in the passing game.

...
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Brian westbrook 5'10" 203 lbs 4.57 40

Lesean mccoy 5'11" 207 4.45 40

Jamaal Charles 5'11" 199 4.36 40

Charcandrick west 5'10" 205 4.34 40

 
FF Ninja said:
bostonfred said:
Brian westbrook 5'10" 203 lbs 4.57 40

Lesean mccoy 5'11" 207 4.45 40

Jamaal Charles 5'11" 199 4.36 40

Charcandrick west 5'10" 205 4.34 40
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Where'd you get those numbers?

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=97359&draftyear=2014&genpos=RB
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That's weird, the abstract on Google for that exact page said 4.34 then that page says 4.36.He ran a 4.45 into the wind at his pro day, then a 4.27 with the wind behind him. Regardless of his exact speed, he certainly fits the Reid RB profile. He might be the fastest back reid's had, and he's certainly on the faster end. That doesn't mean he's going to run as well as those guys, but he could have a massive opportunity.

 
Article from RW from September - the comparison in athleticism metrics is Tre Mason:

[SIZE=small]Charcandrick West, RB, Kansas City, 129.3 pSPARQ (74th percentile)[/SIZE]

Name HT WT AL 40 10 SS 3C BP VJ BJ pSPARQ simScoreCharcandrick West 5.79 204 29.13 4.46 1.51 4.40 7.08 15 41.0 10.83 129.3 N/A

Tre Mason 5.71 207 30.00 4.45 1.53 4.15 6.92 19 38.5 10.50 132.9 78

In addition to having the best name in the NFL, Charcandrick West is a lurking third-string running back on a team that uses that position in heavy volume. The odds of West getting significant time aren’t great, but he’s a midseason pickup with almost zero acquisition cost and neither Knile Davis nor Jamaal Charles is a stranger to serious injury. West may not play a snap, but few third-string backs are as well-positioned to win fantasy leagues.

His athleticism isn’t on an entirely different plane of existence than other NFL backs, a la Jerick McKinnon, but he’s a solidly above-average NFL athlete. He’s also flashed in the preseason, showing ability both on the ground and through the air. If injuries do hit, savvy fantasy owners will be picking up Charcandrick West a week before the rest of their league gets wise.
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- He was third in preseason touches (34) (Polk (36) and McKinnon (35) were nos. 1-2, Buck Allen (32) was 4th).

 
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Also preseason:

5.) Which player overall moved into your Sleeper list?

...

Sean Kirby –

Charcandrick West moved up my rankings in that I’m now aware he exists. I would have previously ranked a ground sloth in football pads ahead of Knile Davis, so the fact that the Chiefs had been sitting on West for over 1 year blew my mind. Few will ever produce yards per carry like Jamaal, but most can get more than Davis. While West isn’t a Jamaal-like player, he’s apparently a very hard tackle. I would have thought his preseason run was a fluke if I hadn’t seen his college highlight tape , which was full of very similar plays. Regardless of what I think, he’ll in all likelihood remain behind Knile Davis indefinitely, as the KC organization seem much more enamored with his 3.5 ypc than I.
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http://dynastyfootballwarehouse.com/dynasty-experts-q-and-a-2015-pre-season-1/



 
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My dynasty league's waiver wire was nearly bare last week, so I took a chance on Charcandrick West as a lottery ticket for $17 FAAB. I should go play the real lottery today. Sorry it had to be at Charles expense.

 
I've been watching him play since high school and he's always been a playmaker. He never had more than 150 carries in college so can't say for sure he can carry a huge workload. And his competition wasn't the I don't believe Reid will ask him to so thats not a problem. And we know he can catch the ball. I'll be throwing what I have at him.

Abilene Christian

2010 - 47 carries 7,4 ypc 3 TD - 6 rec 130 yds 1 td

2011 - 57 carries 6.7 ypc 5 td - 15 rec 200 yds 1 td

2012 - 98 carries 4.5 ypc 4 td - 18 rec 234 yds 4 td

2013 - 145 carries 6.2 ypc 14 td - 32 rec 443 yds 2 td

 
I know nobody really cares but I picked him up last week during free agency as a lottery ticket but then quickly dropped him for a defense. I will now be blowing 90% of my funds in an attempt to get him back. :headhands:

 
monk said:
Bri said:
JuniorNB said:
Can this kid catch passes? Will he be the three down back that Charles was?
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Absolutely can

The thought is simply that they'll share the rock.
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Small sample but he's only caught 2 of 6 targets which is a really bad % for a RB
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He's not a rookie. This is his second year. He had 6 catches in preseason and looked fine

 
We've focused a ton on West vs Knile as backups. What about the other option in dynasty: trading Charles for a short term piece for contenders or acquiring him for rebuilders. I'm a Charles owner and a contender. I immediately emailed the league letting folks know he's on the block and immediately received interest. That surprised me.

What type of player would you contenders target to trade for; and what should the rebuilders be looking to give? Does Charles have dynasty value anymore?

 
I picked him up last week with the news that he's now the #2. Then the Charles injury over the weekend. People have some interest in trading for him, but what's his value right now? A 2016 2nd round rookie pick?

 
matttyl said:
I picked him up last week with the news that he's now the #2. Then the Charles injury over the weekend. People have some interest in trading for him, but what's his value right now? A 2016 2nd round rookie pick?
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I think that's a fair asking price just 24 hours away from the injury. But I can see this value varying wildly in just a week or so. Imagine West explodes during his next start, then you'll be asking for at least a 1st. But if it's immediately a time share as guys above have predicted, then may be lucky to get that 2d you mentioned.

 
Deus Ex Machina said:
We've focused a ton on West vs Knile as backups. What about the other option in dynasty: trading Charles for a short term piece for contenders or acquiring him for rebuilders. I'm a Charles owner and a contender. I immediately emailed the league letting folks know he's on the block and immediately received interest. That surprised me.

What type of player would you contenders target to trade for; and what should the rebuilders be looking to give? Does Charles have dynasty value anymore?
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That's because this is a West thread. There are like 5 threads on Charles discussing him, his trade value, the injury, etc.

 
I would take that 2nd and not look back. West should outplay Davis but he's no charles long term i don't think he is anyones answer.

 
Deus Ex Machina said:
matttyl said:
I picked him up last week with the news that he's now the #2. Then the Charles injury over the weekend. People have some interest in trading for him, but what's his value right now? A 2016 2nd round rookie pick?
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I think that's a fair asking price just 24 hours away from the injury. But I can see this value varying wildly in just a week or so. Imagine West explodes during his next start, then you'll be asking for at least a 1st. But if it's immediately a time share as guys above have predicted, then may be lucky to get that 2d you mentioned.
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But Rotoworld just said the KCC are bringing in Ben Tate. Nobody thinks he's a difference maker, and they may just be kicking the tires on any kind of depth they can now; but that doesn't scream "we've got our guy locked in." It'll be a time share for the near term. I'm beginning to talk myself out of making a WW claim on West.

 
Deamon said:
Deus Ex Machina said:
We've focused a ton on West vs Knile as backups. What about the other option in dynasty: trading Charles for a short term piece for contenders or acquiring him for rebuilders. I'm a Charles owner and a contender. I immediately emailed the league letting folks know he's on the block and immediately received interest. That surprised me.

What type of player would you contenders target to trade for; and what should the rebuilders be looking to give? Does Charles have dynasty value anymore?
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That's because this is a West thread. There are like 5 threads on Charles discussing him, his trade value, the injury, etc.
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I'll go find one of those.

 
Deus Ex Machina said:
Deus Ex Machina said:
matttyl said:
I picked him up last week with the news that he's now the #2. Then the Charles injury over the weekend. People have some interest in trading for him, but what's his value right now? A 2016 2nd round rookie pick?
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I think that's a fair asking price just 24 hours away from the injury. But I can see this value varying wildly in just a week or so. Imagine West explodes during his next start, then you'll be asking for at least a 1st. But if it's immediately a time share as guys above have predicted, then may be lucky to get that 2d you mentioned.
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But Rotoworld just said the KCC are bringing in Ben Tate. Nobody thinks he's a difference maker, and they may just be kicking the tires on any kind of depth they can now; but that doesn't scream "we've got our guy locked in." It'll be a time share for the near term. I'm beginning to talk myself out of making a WW claim on West.
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Actually they have Spencer Ware from LSU on their PS (LSU had Hill, Blue, Hilliard (Hou PS), Magee (Bal PS) and Ware as their RBs, sheesh), I would love to see him be activated as the RB3, but regardless they're going to need an extra RB on gameday.

 
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Deus Ex Machina said:
We've focused a ton on West vs Knile as backups. What about the other option in dynasty: trading Charles for a short term piece for contenders or acquiring him for rebuilders. I'm a Charles owner and a contender. I immediately emailed the league letting folks know he's on the block and immediately received interest. That surprised me.

What type of player would you contenders target to trade for; and what should the rebuilders be looking to give? Does Charles have dynasty value anymore?
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The Charles owner is a perennial contender. I'm a foster/west owner. A couple options I think are reasonableFoster/blue for Charles/Davis

Foster/blue for player/picks

West for player/picks

Foster/west for significant upgrade

West/receiver for significant upgrade

Foster is almost exactly the same age as Charles, so trading for Charles is probably the least attractive option of the bunch, especially with some risk that he doesn't come back next year or comes back to the geriatric half of a time share. It would certainly have to include Davis to get the deal done.

As a potential charles buyer, my fear is that I'm giving up a valuable thing for a potentially valuable thing, and the potentially valuable thing is 29 and injured.

As a potential west seller, my fear is that I'm giving up a guy who could be the next Charles. I know some people were high on Charles coming out, but he was hardly a sure thing when he got his shot. West was undrafted, but he was a small school guy with plus speed, who seems to have good vision and decent moves. He's gotten positive press for blocking in his limited action, and he got more positive coach speak than you'd expect a third string rb to get as he leap frogged over Davis. He's a good fit for a system that has produced some dominant rbs over the years.

As a Charles seller, I'd want some kind of immediate help if I were a contender (most Charles owners probably were). It's a tough sell, though, because you know the upside, yet the market for 29 year old running backs doesn't usually overlap with rebuilding teams who are selling useful parts right now. You're probably looking for the team with the best receivers in your league.

As a west buyer, i would be thrilled to get him for a rookie second. He's got more short and long term upside than most rentals.

 
  • Smile
Reactions: LBH
If chiefs contribute down this terrible path, doesn't tubby get fired? Which would mean the kc rb position could change drastically depending on new coach next year?

 
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Nice breakdown Bostonfred.


Very much in line with my thinking--as a contender/Charles owner I'd be looking to get another older player (e.g., Foster or Forte) in exchange for Charles + _______. I was immediately offered LeSean McCoy (good name value, bad production last two years) and the Doug Martin owner is also interested in Charles. If I obtained McCoy, then I'd immediately look to move him and climb the ladder until I found a player I liked.

This breakdown also makes me think getting West off the WW would be a viable plan, even if only to increase the trade value for both. A team is more likely to make a deal for Charles/handcuff than Charles alone.

 
Not to hijack, but jump on that. Mccoy was averaging over 100 yards a game while hurt the first two weeks. Karlos Williams was a shiny penny, Mccoy is the real deal. If he wasn't a huge part of their plans going forward, there's no way they would be letting him rest until fully healthy while boobie and Herron carry the load.

People overrate what Karlos did because he had some big plays in the red zone. He certainly looks good and has earned playing time. But I strongly believe Mccoy will be the feature back when they're both healthy, and Williams is a good complementary back.

 
bostonfred said:
Not to hijack, but jump on that. Mccoy was averaging over 100 yards a game while hurt the first two weeks. Karlos Williams was a shiny penny, Mccoy is the real deal. If he wasn't a huge part of their plans going forward, there's no way they would be letting him rest until fully healthy while boobie and Herron carry the load.

People overrate what Karlos did because he had some big plays in the red zone. He certainly looks good and has earned playing time. But I strongly believe Mccoy will be the feature back when they're both healthy, and Williams is a good complementary back.
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Thanks. I've actually looked for a more relevant thread in which to re-post this discussion. No luck thus far and I'm hesitant to create a new thread re same if there are actually five other threads. Apologies to guys coming in here looking for exclusive West discussion.

 
Kilgore said:
Omniscient Deity said:
Great football name.

But seriously, he's a decent runner from what I've seen of him this pre-season. Like how decisive he is with his runs. I was high on Knile simply because his measurables are impressive but it seems like he lacks vision as a runner.
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I think he just passed Dave Butz, for the second best name in sports. Behind **** Trickle.
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He he he, **** Trickle. Gets me every time.

**** Trickle died in Booger, NC.

 
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