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Saying his upside is Murray 2014 doesn't mean he will have the same total season numbers. It means he has the potential to play at that level if he ultimately wins the job and gets the volume.
Well this will blow my cover but I believe we have one league in common where he was recently traded.
Why are you guys making this so hard? He is a flyer with great upside if things go well. If he outplays Randle and McFadden, that will be evident either on the field in games or in media reports about practice or both. If he earns the right to start this season, it will be known, and then it is in his hands.
Ok I can see that if he wins the starting roll and suddenly becomes an all around RB like Murray. He's got the running part down and he's improving his pass pro. He's not adding 1000 yards on to Murray's total ever though.
I hear what you're saying and I've said many times that I'd like it more if the price had been higher, but I don't know if it's quite that simple. Michael only has two years left on his deal and if they want to keep him beyond that then they'd probably need to pay him quite a bit more than what an equivalent rookie would make. For example, Roy Helu is basically a career nobody and he's getting paid ~ $2 million per season by Oakland. In general, veterans are a lot more expensive than rookies.
In that case, I traded him straight up for Nelson Agholor. PPR IDP league start 1-3 RB, 2-4 WR etc.We don't...I own him in all my dynasty leagues and havent traded him...your cover is still good
$2m is a lot of money for a 3rd string RB, but it's exceptionally cheap for a starting RB, and Seattle wouldn't have to pay him that kind of money until he was in position to be the starting RB (unless Lynch is still playing 3 years from now).
This morning I traded him away one for one and got Harvin in a 12 team, PPR IDP league.
I think that's fair, but when a guy is as talented as the FF community believes Michael is, they'll usually find a way to make it work. More troubling than that though, is that if the trouble was simply with Seattle's scheme, you'd have thought there'd be more interest on the other end. It certainly appears that there was only one buyer (since there's literally almost nothing less that could have been offered than what Dallas did), so if he was this talented guy that just didn't fit Seattle's team, where were all the other teams that had a chance to get a talented guy on the cheap?
Not mathematically comparing numbers here... simply going with the notion that a guy who underachieved in one place, is sort of of "shown the door" only to shine somewhere else. The "underachieving" and "shown the door" fit the loose comparison to me... the shining somewhere else is not a sure bet, but it's a bet nonetheless...
I traded two 2016 3rd rounders, $50 (out of $500/yr with rollover) and N.Foles
This is after the trade to Dallas? I'd probably give that up just for Michael or Mathews, much less both.
you should be arrested.In that case, I traded him straight up for Nelson Agholor. PPR IDP league start 1-3 RB, 2-4 WR etc.We don't...I own him in all my dynasty leagues and havent traded him...your cover is still good
There's an opportunity cost either way. If they keep Michael and try to re-sign him in 2017, they're going to be spending a lot more than what they'd pay a rookie draft pick. If they spend a draft pick on the position next year or the year after instead, they lose the pick but get a pretty long contract at a relatively low price. The way it happened, they clear some salary off their books and get an extra draft pick for a backup with no special teams value whose contract is set to expire in a year or two. That's without factoring Rawls into the equation. If they think Rawls is 90% of Michael, it makes that much more sense. Now I agree that it doesn't indicate much faith in CM, but it's not quite the "let's rid ourselves of this scrub" move that it might appear on the surface.
you should be arrested.In that case, I traded him straight up for Nelson Agholor. PPR IDP league start 1-3 RB, 2-4 WR etc.We don't...I own him in all my dynasty leagues and havent traded him...your cover is still good
Yet, I hesitated before approving the trade. He could be end up being a top 5 dynasty RB if everything works out for him.Thanks, good one.
I disagree. There is a very real possibility he does little this year and again sits 3rd on the depth chart. If so, it will be rinse and repeat of the past 2 years. Maybe one of the other guys hoes down, maybe he beats them out. None of this is certain and not is his playing time.
Exactly. He has to learn a whole new playbook starting this week. That can't be easy for anyone. I hope he can make the most of his opportunities but I doubt they will start feeding him the ball unless Randle or McFadden get hurt or are super ineffective
Yeah, trade happened yesterday. Soon after the Dallas news, I told him I'd pay my three best 3rds for those three players... he shopped Michael around for a few hours (actively, he is the type of owner that'll call or text about trades, not just email and wait), but apparently didn't get any better offer.
Yeah, but not taking carries from Lynch is pretty different from not taking carries from the pack of scrubs in Dallas. I agree that he might not do anything all year, but if that's the case then it's hugely likely that it's because he just sucks. In Seattle, a backup RB could be pretty good and still get minimal touches d/t Lynch. If Michael stays buried in Dallas, it'll be time to just dump him after this year.
That'll be valid until maybe midseason at the absolute latest. If he's still on the bench after that it'll be because he sucks.
Cmike was thrown in as filler on a dynasty trade offer for Kelce (along with 2016 1st round rookie pick - likely in 8-12 range). I refused the first offer for Kelce for that first round rookie pick. Have to admit, I am intrigued with Michael as a new Cowboy added to sweeten the deal.In terms of offers, I mentioned that I offered a 2nd for him in two different leagues last week and was denied.
Someone offered me a 2nd for him yesterday then came back today and offered a 2nd + Charles Sims. I turned that down.
On the other hand, in a league where I don't have Michael, someone offered him to me for Phillip Dorsett and my 2016 1st (should be high).
Personally, I see no reason to cash out for a 2nd. You can sometimes find a good player in the 2nd round, but most of the value in rookie drafts is loaded in the first few picks. I think Michael has more boom potential and no more risk than a typical 2nd round rookie pick, so that's not enough to get a deal done. Late 1st seems more balanced to me. Those picks are pretty volatile and can easily go either way. That's personally about where I'd pin his value. I don't know if anyone would pay that, so I'd be happy to keep him and see what he can do with this opportunity. If he flops, chances are pretty good that I'm not going to lament missing out on the 2nd round rookie pick I could've gotten for him.
I took a flyer on him in the 13th round and think he is going to outright win the job, but trading Agholor is a crime.you should be arrested.In that case, I traded him straight up for Nelson Agholor. PPR IDP league start 1-3 RB, 2-4 WR etc.We don't...I own him in all my dynasty leagues and havent traded him...your cover is still good
If Randle is averaging 3.9 YPC and Michael is still on the bench then yes, it is because he sucks.
This. Nothing more, nothing less.
I'd give him up for a random 1st but at this point I've held him for over 2 years and it would be gut wrenching to give him up and then watch him go off in Dallas. I would have taken a 2nd before he was sent to Dallas. Now you have to hold him almost unless someone blows you away. I'd take Lockett and a 2nd for him right now.Zyphros said:
This basically just extended all our holds on Michael and added to our frustration levels. Let's hope he gets a legitimate shot and is actually starting by the end of the season. Having him be the guy for weeks 14-16 is going to win some of us our fantasy league championships. Otherwise, we're burning a roster spot AGAIN this season on this guy.greyhorse said:
I tried to trade him. There was a little interest but it never got serious. As soon as he pops (If he pops) everybody and their mom will want him but he'll be untouchable then.
Dallas Cowboys executive vice president Stephen Jones after acquiring Christine MichaelChris nails it...like he usually does
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000523751/article/robinson-christine-michael-should-start-for-cowboys?campaign=Twitter_atn
Robinson: Christine Michael should start for Cowboys
- By Chris Wesseling
- Around the NFL Writer
- Published: Sept. 7, 2015 at 08:01 p.m.
- Updated: Sept. 7, 2015 at 08:08 p.m.
Dallas Cowboys executive vice president Stephen Jones acknowledged Monday afternoon that newly acquired running back Christine Michael is a "long shot" to suit up versus the New York Giants in the season premier of NBC's Sunday Night Football.
"We're very content with the three backs that we have as we head into the Giants game," Jones added. "I think they're all healthy and hitting on all cylinders, so I'm looking forward to seeing how those guys do."
What Cowboys fans and fantasy football heads want to know is whether a freakishly talented butfrustratingly immature young player acquired on the cheap for a conditional seventh-round draft pick can rise to the top of the backfield depth chart in the near future.
Pointing out that his new power back has "a lot of traits," coach Jason Garrett suggested Michael's role will depend solely on his ability to outplay the competition in practice.
"There's opportunity every day in practice," Garrett said Monday, via the team's official website. "We're going to evaluate guys in practice, and if they show that they're worthy of being part of our roster on Sundays, we'll give them a chance to do that. If they're worthy of getting some opportunities to carry the football, we'll give them a chance to do that, as well."
In other words, the door is wide open for each of the Cowboys' running backs to separate from the pack as the season plays out.
NFL Media's Michael Robinson, a fullback who blocked for Michael two years ago, fully believes his former teammate is a "complete runner" who "will take the No. 1 job" if given the opportunity.
Robinson pointed out that Michael was asked to do a lot more in Seattle than he will in Dallas behind a dominant offensive line with No. 1 receiver Dez Bryant drawing safeties out of the box.
"He's going to be able to really get to the line, get a clean entry point to the line of scrimmage, and he is explosive," Michael explained. "... He's never seen some of the holes that this line can provide for him.
"I talked to him today. He's very, very excited to be coming home and to be a Cowboy."
Michael has an unquestioned talent advantage over role player Joseph Randle and an injury-prone, declining Darren McFadden.
The Beaumont, Texas native set an NFL Scouting Combine record for his position with a 43-inch vertical leap in 2013. He was also the top performer in the broad jump (10-foot-5), three-cone drill (6.69), 20-yard shuttle (4.02), and bench press (27 reps) that year.
Former NFL scout and front office executive Louis Riddick praised Michael last offseason as themost gifted running back drafted in the past five years.
The Texas A&M strength coach who trained both Michael and Adrian Peterson told Riddick that Michael's "athletic explosiveness is on par" with Peterson's.
The nifty 25-yard catch-and-run to the right shows a player who passes the eye test with flying colors.
If Michael is oozing with difference-making potential and playmaking ability, why did a model organization such as the Seahawks throw in the towel just a year after vowing to take advantage of his "God-given ability" and "breakaway speed and power behind his pads"?
Jayson Jenks of The Seattle Times offered an eye-opening breakdown of Michael's issues on Monday.
When Robinson explains that Michael was asked to do more in Seattle's offense, he's hinting at a running back who struggled with footwork, reads and assignments in Tom Cable's zone-blocking scheme that asks backs to patiently wait for "dark creases" to open.
"You might see the great cut one time and then not the next, and it's the exact same scenario," Cable said last year. "He comes across and makes a great blitz pickup one play and then he's supposed to chip and then, 'Oh, I'm going to get out for my route, and oops I forgot to chip.' It's just being able to put a good play together and then a good one the next time and the next time. When that becomes his habit, then he owns it. Right now he doesn't own it."
Whereas Marshawn Lynch has proven to be the ideal runner for Cable's scheme, Michael has proven to be a tease, unable to master the fundamentals.
Because NFL defenses rarely offer the gaping creases that are seen in college football, running backs must be graded on how they perform on their first steps to and through the hole. That's where Michael has been found wanting.
"Once he gets to point B, his God-given ability takes over," former Seahawks fullback Kiero Smallexplained last year. "It's getting from A to B with him."
Was that problem exacerbated by Michael's frustration and lack of focus while adjusting to a limited role in Seattle? Pete Carroll suggested as much last offseason.
Perhaps Cowboys coaches will discover a more engaged Michael once they expand his role.
The key question, however, is to what extent Dallas' road-grading offensive line unlocks Michael's game-breaking potential by opening gaping holes as they did for reigning Offensive Player of the Year DeMarco Murray, who had nine more runs of 15+ yards than any back in the league last season.
Back in 2000, the Green Bay Packers struck gold by trading a sixth-round pick to the Seahawks for a wildly talented but technically unsound prospect stuck behind Ricky Watters and Shaun Alexander.
Ahman Green went on to become one of the NFL's most productive backs over the next half-decade, earning four Pro Bowl berths and averaging 1,370 rushing yards per season.
It will interesting to see if lightning strikes twice with an enigmatic reclamation project essentially given up for dead by the Seahawks.
Because the other shoe will inevitably drop. With McFadden's foot still in it.<p>
Dallas Cowboys executive vice president Stephen Jones after acquiring Christine MichaelChris nails it...like he usually does
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000523751/article/robinson-christine-michael-should-start-for-cowboys?campaign=Twitter_atn
Robinson: Christine Michael should start for Cowboys
- By Chris Wesseling
- Around the NFL Writer
- Published: Sept. 7, 2015 at 08:01 p.m.
- Updated: Sept. 7, 2015 at 08:08 p.m.
Dallas Cowboys executive vice president Stephen Jones acknowledged Monday afternoon that newly acquired running back Christine Michael is a "long shot" to suit up versus the New York Giants in the season premier of NBC's Sunday Night Football.
"We're very content with the three backs that we have as we head into the Giants game," Jones added. "I think they're all healthy and hitting on all cylinders, so I'm looking forward to seeing how those guys do."
What Cowboys fans and fantasy football heads want to know is whether a freakishly talented butfrustratingly immature young player acquired on the cheap for a conditional seventh-round draft pick can rise to the top of the backfield depth chart in the near future.
Pointing out that his new power back has "a lot of traits," coach Jason Garrett suggested Michael's role will depend solely on his ability to outplay the competition in practice.
"There's opportunity every day in practice," Garrett said Monday, via the team's official website. "We're going to evaluate guys in practice, and if they show that they're worthy of being part of our roster on Sundays, we'll give them a chance to do that. If they're worthy of getting some opportunities to carry the football, we'll give them a chance to do that, as well."
In other words, the door is wide open for each of the Cowboys' running backs to separate from the pack as the season plays out.
NFL Media's Michael Robinson, a fullback who blocked for Michael two years ago, fully believes his former teammate is a "complete runner" who "will take the No. 1 job" if given the opportunity.
Robinson pointed out that Michael was asked to do a lot more in Seattle than he will in Dallas behind a dominant offensive line with No. 1 receiver Dez Bryant drawing safeties out of the box.
"He's going to be able to really get to the line, get a clean entry point to the line of scrimmage, and he is explosive," Michael explained. "... He's never seen some of the holes that this line can provide for him.
"I talked to him today. He's very, very excited to be coming home and to be a Cowboy."
Michael has an unquestioned talent advantage over role player Joseph Randle and an injury-prone, declining Darren McFadden.
The Beaumont, Texas native set an NFL Scouting Combine record for his position with a 43-inch vertical leap in 2013. He was also the top performer in the broad jump (10-foot-5), three-cone drill (6.69), 20-yard shuttle (4.02), and bench press (27 reps) that year.
Former NFL scout and front office executive Louis Riddick praised Michael last offseason as themost gifted running back drafted in the past five years.
The Texas A&M strength coach who trained both Michael and Adrian Peterson told Riddick that Michael's "athletic explosiveness is on par" with Peterson's.
The nifty 25-yard catch-and-run to the right shows a player who passes the eye test with flying colors.
If Michael is oozing with difference-making potential and playmaking ability, why did a model organization such as the Seahawks throw in the towel just a year after vowing to take advantage of his "God-given ability" and "breakaway speed and power behind his pads"?
Jayson Jenks of The Seattle Times offered an eye-opening breakdown of Michael's issues on Monday.
When Robinson explains that Michael was asked to do more in Seattle's offense, he's hinting at a running back who struggled with footwork, reads and assignments in Tom Cable's zone-blocking scheme that asks backs to patiently wait for "dark creases" to open.
"You might see the great cut one time and then not the next, and it's the exact same scenario," Cable said last year. "He comes across and makes a great blitz pickup one play and then he's supposed to chip and then, 'Oh, I'm going to get out for my route, and oops I forgot to chip.' It's just being able to put a good play together and then a good one the next time and the next time. When that becomes his habit, then he owns it. Right now he doesn't own it."
Whereas Marshawn Lynch has proven to be the ideal runner for Cable's scheme, Michael has proven to be a tease, unable to master the fundamentals.
Because NFL defenses rarely offer the gaping creases that are seen in college football, running backs must be graded on how they perform on their first steps to and through the hole. That's where Michael has been found wanting.
"Once he gets to point B, his God-given ability takes over," former Seahawks fullback Kiero Smallexplained last year. "It's getting from A to B with him."
Was that problem exacerbated by Michael's frustration and lack of focus while adjusting to a limited role in Seattle? Pete Carroll suggested as much last offseason.
Perhaps Cowboys coaches will discover a more engaged Michael once they expand his role.
The key question, however, is to what extent Dallas' road-grading offensive line unlocks Michael's game-breaking potential by opening gaping holes as they did for reigning Offensive Player of the Year DeMarco Murray, who had nine more runs of 15+ yards than any back in the league last season.
Back in 2000, the Green Bay Packers struck gold by trading a sixth-round pick to the Seahawks for a wildly talented but technically unsound prospect stuck behind Ricky Watters and Shaun Alexander.
Ahman Green went on to become one of the NFL's most productive backs over the next half-decade, earning four Pro Bowl berths and averaging 1,370 rushing yards per season.
It will interesting to see if lightning strikes twice with an enigmatic reclamation project essentially given up for dead by the Seahawks.
"We're very content with the three backs that we have as we head into the Giants game," Jones added. "I think they're all healthy and hitting on all cylinders, so I'm looking forward to seeing how those guys do."
Ummm???? Then why did you just trade for another RB?
