Claiborne scores a FOUR on the Wonderlic! (3 Viewers)

[cobalt_27]

can they even refuse to take it? Wouldnt that be like a person refusing to get a medical evaluation??

No, it would be someone refusing to take a test that has nothing to do with the occupation they are pursuing. Would you give a math test to someone interviewing for a job as a journalist?

No, but I'd give an intelligence test to them, since that affects journalists...just like it affects football players. for those who think basic logic and reading have nothing to do with being a good football player. At the very least, there's a slightly positive correlation between higher scores and being able to understand a 500+ page playbook.

And regardless of how it effects him on the field/practice/study... is this the type of person to have more complication off the field that can end up being a problem for the team? And I'm not talking about character, but simply problem solving and critical thinking.

Can't speak for Claiborne, but generally speaking, problem-solving skills and critical thinking abilities are independent of reading skill development.

 

[Area51Inhabitant]

I would put a lot more stock in the personal interview than this test when trying to determine a player's intelligence.

 

[Raiderfan32904]

So what if Claiborne has trouble with written tests? Not a big deal. He sure has no problem assimilating necessary info on the field when the ball is in the air.

Dude's a playmaker. A lot of people with learning deficiencies have heighted aural and depth perceptions and keen eye-hand coordination. It wouldn't surprise to find that Claiborne is one of these special types. God gives out his gifts in different measures to different people. Claiborne will never be an accountant or engineer, but what he is gifted in what he knows, covering the reciever and making plays on the ball.

The wonderlic test would only concern if he was a QB. But he doesn't need to know and process that much information. Claiborne's God-given instincts and playmaking ability are all that matters at the next level. He'll be a star wherever he goes.

 

[GroveDiesel]

They have been talking about this on the NFL radio today. They are all outraged saying he has a learning disability, and this is reprehensible that this information became public. Maybe he has a learning disability, or maybe he is stupid. Being stupid isn't a crime, but it does effect the value of a player. His ability to learn schemes, and process information on the go does effect his ability to succeed as an NFL player. No one on the radio seemed to consider the possibility that this guy is just plain dumb. It doesn't mean he shouldn't be drafted, but it is certainly a factor that should go in to your evaluation. Would you feel comfortable knowing that you spent millions of dollars to sign your first round draft pick and then find out he is dumb as a fencepost?

I don't understand this statement. It seems like it's pretty clear that, at least among some in the media and college ranks, it's well known that Claiborne has a learning disability. So why WOULD they stop to consider whether he's "just dumb" when they already know that's not the case? I'm sure many of those same people have sat down with him and talked with him and can talk from personal experience about what they thought his level of intelligence is.

So far the ONLY person that I have seen even dare to TRY to imply that Claiborne doesn't have a learning disability is Mike Florio, the same guy that published the leak without ever contacting Claiborne or his agent for comment before running the story. Now that he looks like a schmuck for ridiculing a guy with a learning disability and carrying dirty water for some GM or other agent, Mike will do anything to try to squirm out of responsibility.

At the end of the day, how is having a learning disability different from being dumb? While its certainly possible that having a legitimate physical disability like dyslexia might negatively impact one's ability to score exceptionally well on a test, most people who have spent 3 years in college have had some tutoring to overcome these kinds of challenges. Learning disability or not, a 4 is a REALLY bad score, my 9 year-old daughter can do better than that - seriously.

I've taken the Wonderlic several times and have administered it several hundred times more as a component of our corporate interview process. I've NEVER seen a score that low, ever. Our BASELINE for employment consideration was a score of 22. This was to get a job as an $8/hour HOSTESS at an upscale casual RESTAURANT.

The test is not that hard. Four is a really bad score, almost unimaginably bad. Dude is either dumb, blind or doesn't care. None of which make for a good football player.

Not hating, just saying...

The fact that you don't know the difference between low intelligence and a reading disability tells me that you have no business administering a test like the Wonderlic. I'm guessing that there are quite a few people that could sue you and your company for not making adequate accomodations under the ADA. Perhaps someone in your company should reconsider such an ignorant stance before you get sued out of existence.

 

[GroveDiesel]

can they even refuse to take it? Wouldnt that be like a person refusing to get a medical evaluation??

No, it would be someone refusing to take a test that has nothing to do with the occupation they are pursuing. Would you give a math test to someone interviewing for a job as a journalist?

No, but I'd give an intelligence test to them, since that affects journalists...just like it affects football players. for those who think basic logic and reading have nothing to do with being a good football player. At the very least, there's a slightly positive correlation between higher scores and being able to understand a 500+ page playbook.

And regardless of how it effects him on the field/practice/study... is this the type of person to have more complication off the field that can end up being a problem for the team? And I'm not talking about character, but simply problem solving and critical thinking.

What kind of complications off the field from a reading learning disability? And how would that negatively affect his play on the field?

Well if he isn't on the field... think Kellen Winslow Jr.

So having dyslexia makes you wreck motorcycles?

 

[DoubleG]

I think all the coaches/front office people should take the test and post their scores.

It would explain a lot...about most teams.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

They have been talking about this on the NFL radio today. They are all outraged saying he has a learning disability, and this is reprehensible that this information became public. Maybe he has a learning disability, or maybe he is stupid. Being stupid isn't a crime, but it does effect the value of a player. His ability to learn schemes, and process information on the go does effect his ability to succeed as an NFL player. No one on the radio seemed to consider the possibility that this guy is just plain dumb. It doesn't mean he shouldn't be drafted, but it is certainly a factor that should go in to your evaluation. Would you feel comfortable knowing that you spent millions of dollars to sign your first round draft pick and then find out he is dumb as a fencepost?

I don't understand this statement. It seems like it's pretty clear that, at least among some in the media and college ranks, it's well known that Claiborne has a learning disability. So why WOULD they stop to consider whether he's "just dumb" when they already know that's not the case? I'm sure many of those same people have sat down with him and talked with him and can talk from personal experience about what they thought his level of intelligence is.

So far the ONLY person that I have seen even dare to TRY to imply that Claiborne doesn't have a learning disability is Mike Florio, the same guy that published the leak without ever contacting Claiborne or his agent for comment before running the story. Now that he looks like a schmuck for ridiculing a guy with a learning disability and carrying dirty water for some GM or other agent, Mike will do anything to try to squirm out of responsibility.

At the end of the day, how is having a learning disability different from being dumb? While its certainly possible that having a legitimate physical disability like dyslexia might negatively impact one's ability to score exceptionally well on a test, most people who have spent 3 years in college have had some tutoring to overcome these kinds of challenges. Learning disability or not, a 4 is a REALLY bad score, my 9 year-old daughter can do better than that - seriously.

I've taken the Wonderlic several times and have administered it several hundred times more as a component of our corporate interview process. I've NEVER seen a score that low, ever. Our BASELINE for employment consideration was a score of 22. This was to get a job as an $8/hour HOSTESS at an upscale casual RESTAURANT.

The test is not that hard. Four is a really bad score, almost unimaginably bad. Dude is either dumb, blind or doesn't care. None of which make for a good football player.

Not hating, just saying...

The fact that you don't know the difference between low intelligence and a reading disability tells me that you have no business administering a test like the Wonderlic. I'm guessing that there are quite a few people that could sue you and your company for not making adequate accomodations under the ADA. Perhaps someone in your company should reconsider such an ignorant stance before you get sued out of existence.

I will ask again...does anybody know if accomodations weren't made when he took this test.....?

I would assume they were for the very reasons you and others mention......it would almost seem like the NFL would HAVE to make accomodations for him when he took it.....

that to me is a huge part of this discussion.....

 

[GroveDiesel]

They have been talking about this on the NFL radio today. They are all outraged saying he has a learning disability, and this is reprehensible that this information became public. Maybe he has a learning disability, or maybe he is stupid. Being stupid isn't a crime, but it does effect the value of a player. His ability to learn schemes, and process information on the go does effect his ability to succeed as an NFL player. No one on the radio seemed to consider the possibility that this guy is just plain dumb. It doesn't mean he shouldn't be drafted, but it is certainly a factor that should go in to your evaluation. Would you feel comfortable knowing that you spent millions of dollars to sign your first round draft pick and then find out he is dumb as a fencepost?

I don't understand this statement. It seems like it's pretty clear that, at least among some in the media and college ranks, it's well known that Claiborne has a learning disability. So why WOULD they stop to consider whether he's "just dumb" when they already know that's not the case? I'm sure many of those same people have sat down with him and talked with him and can talk from personal experience about what they thought his level of intelligence is.

So far the ONLY person that I have seen even dare to TRY to imply that Claiborne doesn't have a learning disability is Mike Florio, the same guy that published the leak without ever contacting Claiborne or his agent for comment before running the story. Now that he looks like a schmuck for ridiculing a guy with a learning disability and carrying dirty water for some GM or other agent, Mike will do anything to try to squirm out of responsibility.

At the end of the day, how is having a learning disability different from being dumb? While its certainly possible that having a legitimate physical disability like dyslexia might negatively impact one's ability to score exceptionally well on a test, most people who have spent 3 years in college have had some tutoring to overcome these kinds of challenges. Learning disability or not, a 4 is a REALLY bad score, my 9 year-old daughter can do better than that - seriously.

I've taken the Wonderlic several times and have administered it several hundred times more as a component of our corporate interview process. I've NEVER seen a score that low, ever. Our BASELINE for employment consideration was a score of 22. This was to get a job as an $8/hour HOSTESS at an upscale casual RESTAURANT.

The test is not that hard. Four is a really bad score, almost unimaginably bad. Dude is either dumb, blind or doesn't care. None of which make for a good football player.

Not hating, just saying...

The fact that you don't know the difference between low intelligence and a reading disability tells me that you have no business administering a test like the Wonderlic. I'm guessing that there are quite a few people that could sue you and your company for not making adequate accomodations under the ADA. Perhaps someone in your company should reconsider such an ignorant stance before you get sued out of existence.

I will ask again...does anybody know if accomodations weren't made when he took this test.....?

I would assume they were for the very reasons you and others mention......it would almost seem like the NFL would HAVE to make accomodations for him when he took it.....

that to me is a huge part of this discussion.....

I don't think we know at this point. His score seems to indicate that they didn't though.I know colleges game the system, but it's difficult to believe that he could be passing college classes but then score a 4 on the Wonderlic with accommodations. It also seems like information that will be out there one way or another fairly quickly.

 

[RUSF18]

They have been talking about this on the NFL radio today. They are all outraged saying he has a learning disability, and this is reprehensible that this information became public. Maybe he has a learning disability, or maybe he is stupid. Being stupid isn't a crime, but it does effect the value of a player. His ability to learn schemes, and process information on the go does effect his ability to succeed as an NFL player. No one on the radio seemed to consider the possibility that this guy is just plain dumb. It doesn't mean he shouldn't be drafted, but it is certainly a factor that should go in to your evaluation. Would you feel comfortable knowing that you spent millions of dollars to sign your first round draft pick and then find out he is dumb as a fencepost?

I don't understand this statement. It seems like it's pretty clear that, at least among some in the media and college ranks, it's well known that Claiborne has a learning disability. So why WOULD they stop to consider whether he's "just dumb" when they already know that's not the case? I'm sure many of those same people have sat down with him and talked with him and can talk from personal experience about what they thought his level of intelligence is.

So far the ONLY person that I have seen even dare to TRY to imply that Claiborne doesn't have a learning disability is Mike Florio, the same guy that published the leak without ever contacting Claiborne or his agent for comment before running the story. Now that he looks like a schmuck for ridiculing a guy with a learning disability and carrying dirty water for some GM or other agent, Mike will do anything to try to squirm out of responsibility.

At the end of the day, how is having a learning disability different from being dumb? While its certainly possible that having a legitimate physical disability like dyslexia might negatively impact one's ability to score exceptionally well on a test, most people who have spent 3 years in college have had some tutoring to overcome these kinds of challenges. Learning disability or not, a 4 is a REALLY bad score, my 9 year-old daughter can do better than that - seriously.

I've taken the Wonderlic several times and have administered it several hundred times more as a component of our corporate interview process. I've NEVER seen a score that low, ever. Our BASELINE for employment consideration was a score of 22. This was to get a job as an $8/hour HOSTESS at an upscale casual RESTAURANT.

The test is not that hard. Four is a really bad score, almost unimaginably bad. Dude is either dumb, blind or doesn't care. None of which make for a good football player.

Not hating, just saying...

The fact that you don't know the difference between low intelligence and a reading disability tells me that you have no business administering a test like the Wonderlic. I'm guessing that there are quite a few people that could sue you and your company for not making adequate accomodations under the ADA. Perhaps someone in your company should reconsider such an ignorant stance before you get sued out of existence.

I will ask again...does anybody know if accomodations weren't made when he took this test.....?

I would assume they were for the very reasons you and others mention......it would almost seem like the NFL would HAVE to make accomodations for him when he took it.....

that to me is a huge part of this discussion.....

I obviously don't know if they did, or if they need to. It would be considered a reasonable accommodation under the ADA but, like other issues that end up in non-compliance with federal law, I assume something like the Wonderlic and all the pre-draft screening tests are covered within some section of the CBA. It would seem to me to be more on the NFLPA to ensure that their players are being granted a "fair shot".

 

[Stinkin Ref]

I am actually going to assume that accomodations WERE made....cause it would be hard to believe that the process could intentionally set someone up for this kind of failure if there is a documented disability that is known about ahead of time......I couldn't imagine them saying "here it is, have fun, let us know when you are done".....

 

[Grahamburn]

You've got to feel bad for the kid in this situation. I've never really understood the motivation for leaking these scores just to rally a fanbase against a player. All the teams already know.

I hope it motivates him, especially if he ends up in TB.

 

[IndyHavoc]

Heard Florio on the radio this AM. Basically blaming Claiborne's agent for not recognizing and insisting on special accommodations or advising his client to NOT take the test. So, sounds like he took the test vanilla, which to me completely explains a score in the 4 range. If you can't read a lick of the questions, you've got a what, 20% chance of a correct answer on each. It'd be really easy to roll up a 0-fer.

While I think Florio rushed to get the story out, I do agree with him that it's inexcusable on the NFLPA and the Agent to not have this handled with some sort of accommodations.

 

[SacramentoBob]

People are giving Wonderlic tests for waitress jobs?

 

[RUSF18]

Heard Florio on the radio this AM. Basically blaming Claiborne's agent for not recognizing and insisting on special accommodations or advising his client to NOT take the test. So, sounds like he took the test vanilla, which to me completely explains a score in the 4 range. If you can't read a lick of the questions, you've got a what, 20% chance of a correct answer on each. It'd be really easy to roll up a 0-fer.While I think Florio rushed to get the story out, I do agree with him that it's inexcusable on the NFLPA and the Agent to not have this handled with some sort of accommodations.

Did Florio mention (or was he asked by the interviewer) why he felt the need to report this in the first place? It serves absolutely no purpose for the public.

 

[Ksquared]

Bill Polian was on NFL radio this morning and he discussed this situation from a personal and NFL administrative stand point.

1) He would strongly advise Claiborne to hire an attorney and sue the NFL and the test administering company. And he felt he would like win big. Polian said the scores are supposed to only be given to the General Manager of each team, head coach, and possibly the owner (that was an option which he always did with the Colts).

2) How they used it was interesting - if someone scored really low. They would contact the college the player attended and discuss the player with the person in charge of the academic tutoring/learning disability coordinator. The answers they wanted to know about was the learning process that worked best with each player in these situations.

I have always felt the only thing that the Wonderlic might indicate is an ability or inability to process information rapidly (less than a minute per question is allotted i believe) but it would have to be use in conjunction with game film. If there was an indicator in the plays being or not being made due to not processing what the player was seeing on the field, then the Wonderlic score could validate that interpretation of the film review. But I never thought about the fact the teams would investigate how they would possibly need to adjust their teaching for certain individuals due to the scores.

 

[RUSF18]

Bill Polian was on NFL radio this morning and he discussed this situation from a personal and NFL administrative stand point.1) He would strongly advise Claiborne to hire an attorney and sue the NFL and the test administering company. And he felt he would like win big. Polian said the scores are supposed to only be given to the General Manager of each team, head coach, and possibly the owner (that was an option which he always did with the Colts).2) How they used it was interesting - if someone scored really low. They would contact the college the player attended and discuss the player with the person in charge of the academic tutoring/learning disability coordinator. The answers they wanted to know about was the learning process that worked best with each player in these situations. I have always felt the only thing that the Wonderlic might indicate is an ability or inability to process information rapidly (less than a minute per question is allotted i believe) but it would have to be use in conjunction with game film. If there was an indicator in the plays being or not being made due to not processing what the player was seeing on the field, then the Wonderlic score could validate that interpretation of the film review. But I never thought about the fact the teams would investigate how they would possibly need to adjust their teaching for certain individuals due to the scores.

This isn't the first negative Wonderlic score to leak (not even close). Wonder why Polian never mentioned suing the NFL before this year.

 

[Prussian]

How many points are earned by putting your name on it?

Seriously though ... does anyone really think these guys went to college for an education? ... or because they were already top of their high school class. The Wonderlic is suppose to be logic and common sense driven, but to many those are relative concepts to the environment they came from.

The guy can ball ... just hire him an advisor and keep him away from a microphone or Twitter account.

 

[Marvelous]

Well, Mike Florio is reporting that he scored a 4. We don't know that he actually did. But if he did, it's probably because of his learning disability that impacts his ability to read. My guess is that it's some sort of dyslexia that makes it very difficult for him to read and take tests.

If it's both true that he scored a 4 and that he has a learning disability, Claiborne should sue the NFL for breaching their duty and legal obligation to keep those scores secret. Even more so if they do not provide alternate testing means to satisfy the Americans with Disabilities Act.

I've seen a few interviews with the kid and he doesn't really seem that dumb to me. He's not a rocket scientist, but he doesn't seem borderline mentally disabled either. And his football intelligence on the field seems outstanding from everything I've seen.

Frankly, I hope that GMs really are dumb enough to drop him down their boards so that the Bill can take him at #10.

Mike Florio also made the point that players will frequently pass on parts of the combine because they feel they will present better at their pro day or at a separate workup. So why doesn't anyone pass on the Wonderlic test, especailly if they know they won't do well.

 

[Marvelous]

They have been talking about this on the NFL radio today. They are all outraged saying he has a learning disability, and this is reprehensible that this information became public. Maybe he has a learning disability, or maybe he is stupid. Being stupid isn't a crime, but it does effect the value of a player. His ability to learn schemes, and process information on the go does effect his ability to succeed as an NFL player. No one on the radio seemed to consider the possibility that this guy is just plain dumb. It doesn't mean he shouldn't be drafted, but it is certainly a factor that should go in to your evaluation. Would you feel comfortable knowing that you spent millions of dollars to sign your first round draft pick and then find out he is dumb as a fencepost?

I don't understand this statement. It seems like it's pretty clear that, at least among some in the media and college ranks, it's well known that Claiborne has a learning disability. So why WOULD they stop to consider whether he's "just dumb" when they already know that's not the case? I'm sure many of those same people have sat down with him and talked with him and can talk from personal experience about what they thought his level of intelligence is.

So far the ONLY person that I have seen even dare to TRY to imply that Claiborne doesn't have a learning disability is Mike Florio, the same guy that published the leak without ever contacting Claiborne or his agent for comment before running the story. Now that he looks like a schmuck for ridiculing a guy with a learning disability and carrying dirty water for some GM or other agent, Mike will do anything to try to squirm out of responsibility.

At the end of the day, how is having a learning disability different from being dumb? While its certainly possible that having a legitimate physical disability like dyslexia might negatively impact one's ability to score exceptionally well on a test, most people who have spent 3 years in college have had some tutoring to overcome these kinds of challenges. Learning disability or not, a 4 is a REALLY bad score, my 9 year-old daughter can do better than that - seriously.

I've taken the Wonderlic several times and have administered it several hundred times more as a component of our corporate interview process. I've NEVER seen a score that low, ever. Our BASELINE for employment consideration was a score of 22. This was to get a job as an $8/hour HOSTESS at an upscale casual RESTAURANT.

The test is not that hard. Four is a really bad score, almost unimaginably bad. Dude is either dumb, blind or doesn't care. None of which make for a good football player.

Not hating, just saying...

That's a pretty harsh assessment. Although not exactly the same, suppose you gave the wonderlic to a blind person. He's not likely to get a good result. Then have someone read the wonderlic to a blind person. He is likely to do much better.

That is the type of accomodation you make for a learning disabled person. If part of the test is to test reading and eyesight, then don't make any accomodation. If the goal is to be tested on the material and eyesight and reading ability are not being tested, then read them the test.

I suspect the wonderlic will lose meaning if they read the questions to him since it is a timed test and speed is one of the aspects being tested.

 

[gandalas]

Bill Polian was on NFL radio this morning and he discussed this situation from a personal and NFL administrative stand point.1) He would strongly advise Claiborne to hire an attorney and sue the NFL and the test administering company. And he felt he would like win big. Polian said the scores are supposed to only be given to the General Manager of each team, head coach, and possibly the owner (that was an option which he always did with the Colts).2) How they used it was interesting - if someone scored really low. They would contact the college the player attended and discuss the player with the person in charge of the academic tutoring/learning disability coordinator. The answers they wanted to know about was the learning process that worked best with each player in these situations. I have always felt the only thing that the Wonderlic might indicate is an ability or inability to process information rapidly (less than a minute per question is allotted i believe) but it would have to be use in conjunction with game film. If there was an indicator in the plays being or not being made due to not processing what the player was seeing on the field, then the Wonderlic score could validate that interpretation of the film review. But I never thought about the fact the teams would investigate how they would possibly need to adjust their teaching for certain individuals due to the scores.

This isn't the first negative Wonderlic score to leak (not even close). Wonder why Polian never mentioned suing the NFL before this year.

Probably because he was a member of an NFL team's front office until this year and subject to all sorts of nice penalties from his Bosses (IE, the NFL)?Just an idea, but he probably has a BIT more leeway to speak his mind as a talking head at ESPN than when he was GM of the Colts, you think?

 

[RUSF18]

Bill Polian was on NFL radio this morning and he discussed this situation from a personal and NFL administrative stand point.1) He would strongly advise Claiborne to hire an attorney and sue the NFL and the test administering company. And he felt he would like win big. Polian said the scores are supposed to only be given to the General Manager of each team, head coach, and possibly the owner (that was an option which he always did with the Colts).2) How they used it was interesting - if someone scored really low. They would contact the college the player attended and discuss the player with the person in charge of the academic tutoring/learning disability coordinator. The answers they wanted to know about was the learning process that worked best with each player in these situations. I have always felt the only thing that the Wonderlic might indicate is an ability or inability to process information rapidly (less than a minute per question is allotted i believe) but it would have to be use in conjunction with game film. If there was an indicator in the plays being or not being made due to not processing what the player was seeing on the field, then the Wonderlic score could validate that interpretation of the film review. But I never thought about the fact the teams would investigate how they would possibly need to adjust their teaching for certain individuals due to the scores.

This isn't the first negative Wonderlic score to leak (not even close). Wonder why Polian never mentioned suing the NFL before this year.

Probably because he was a member of an NFL team's front office until this year and subject to all sorts of nice penalties from his Bosses (IE, the NFL)?Just an idea, but he probably has a BIT more leeway to speak his mind as a talking head at ESPN than when he was GM of the Colts, you think?

Uh yeah, I get it...that's the point. Bit hypocritical for him to suddenly "strongly advise" Claiborne to get an attorney.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

just devil's advocate here....

***(disclaimer: accomodations should have been made and it seems these tests scores become public anyway)***

but if it is common knowledge that this test is part of the evaluation/hiring process (and it has been for years so it must not really violate any civil rights, etc)...

why does it need to be confidential....?...

40 times aren't confidential....cone drills....vertical leap.....why is ok to have every aspect of your athletic ability publicly scrutinized...but not your intellectual ability.....?...if it is part of the hiring process for this profession and you don't like it....pick another profession....or sue to have it removed as part of the hiring process if you think it violates some civil right or something....obviously taking it to the extreme here, but really who cares if you can ball...

maybe Larry Allen would have liked to have kept his 40 time confidential....

obviously this isn't how I really feel.....but the problem is more with the process than anything else

 

[BigSteelThrill]

just devil's advocate here....***(disclaimer: accomodations should have been made and it seems these tests scores become public anyway)*** but if it is common knowledge that this test is part of the evaluation/hiring process (and it has been for years so it must not really violate any civil rights, etc)...why does it need to be confidential....?...40 times aren't confidential....cone drills....vertical leap.....why is ok to have every aspect of your athletic ability publicly scrutinized...but not your intellectual ability.....?...if it is part of the hiring process for this profession and you don't like it....pick another profession....or sue to have it removed as part of the hiring process if you think it violates some civil right or something....obviously taking it to the extreme here, but really who cares if you can ball...maybe Larry Allen would have liked to have kept his 40 time confidential....obviously this isn't how I really feel.....but the problem is more with the process than anything else

 

[RUSF18]

just devil's advocate here....***(disclaimer: accomodations should have been made and it seems these tests scores become public anyway)*** but if it is common knowledge that this test is part of the evaluation/hiring process (and it has been for years so it must not really violate any civil rights, etc)...why does it need to be confidential....?...40 times aren't confidential....cone drills....vertical leap.....why is ok to have every aspect of your athletic ability publicly scrutinized...but not your intellectual ability.....?...if it is part of the hiring process for this profession and you don't like it....pick another profession....or sue to have it removed as part of the hiring process if you think it violates some civil right or something....obviously taking it to the extreme here, but really who cares if you can ball...maybe Larry Allen would have liked to have kept his 40 time confidential....obviously this isn't how I really feel.....but the problem is more with the process than anything else

It's why I referred to this likely being covered under the CBA. My guess is that the NFLPA wanted to protect the results of the test because they don't want any of their (future) members embarrassed, and the owners obliged. I'm sure some players don't feel great about the world knowing how slow they can be timed, but at the end of the day, they are athletic enough to play football at this level, and they and the public know that.

 

[Hoosier16]

They have been talking about this on the NFL radio today. They are all outraged saying he has a learning disability, and this is reprehensible that this information became public. Maybe he has a learning disability, or maybe he is stupid. Being stupid isn't a crime, but it does effect the value of a player. His ability to learn schemes, and process information on the go does effect his ability to succeed as an NFL player. No one on the radio seemed to consider the possibility that this guy is just plain dumb. It doesn't mean he shouldn't be drafted, but it is certainly a factor that should go in to your evaluation. Would you feel comfortable knowing that you spent millions of dollars to sign your first round draft pick and then find out he is dumb as a fencepost?

I don't understand this statement. It seems like it's pretty clear that, at least among some in the media and college ranks, it's well known that Claiborne has a learning disability. So why WOULD they stop to consider whether he's "just dumb" when they already know that's not the case? I'm sure many of those same people have sat down with him and talked with him and can talk from personal experience about what they thought his level of intelligence is.

So far the ONLY person that I have seen even dare to TRY to imply that Claiborne doesn't have a learning disability is Mike Florio, the same guy that published the leak without ever contacting Claiborne or his agent for comment before running the story. Now that he looks like a schmuck for ridiculing a guy with a learning disability and carrying dirty water for some GM or other agent, Mike will do anything to try to squirm out of responsibility.

At the end of the day, how is having a learning disability different from being dumb? While its certainly possible that having a legitimate physical disability like dyslexia might negatively impact one's ability to score exceptionally well on a test, most people who have spent 3 years in college have had some tutoring to overcome these kinds of challenges. Learning disability or not, a 4 is a REALLY bad score, my 9 year-old daughter can do better than that - seriously.

I've taken the Wonderlic several times and have administered it several hundred times more as a component of our corporate interview process. I've NEVER seen a score that low, ever. Our BASELINE for employment consideration was a score of 22. This was to get a job as an $8/hour HOSTESS at an upscale casual RESTAURANT.

The test is not that hard. Four is a really bad score, almost unimaginably bad. Dude is either dumb, blind or doesn't care. None of which make for a good football player.

Not hating, just saying...

That's a pretty harsh assessment. Although not exactly the same, suppose you gave the wonderlic to a blind person. He's not likely to get a good result. Then have someone read the wonderlic to a blind person. He is likely to do much better.

That is the type of accomodation you make for a learning disabled person. If part of the test is to test reading and eyesight, then don't make any accomodation. If the goal is to be tested on the material and eyesight and reading ability are not being tested, then read them the test.

I suspect the wonderlic will lose meaning if they read the questions to him since it is a timed test and speed is one of the aspects being tested.

The wonderlic website makes it pretty clear they have options for the visually or hearing impaired. I'm sure they have options for a learning disability.I don't think The Jeminator is too far off base. If Claiborne's disability is so well known and bad, then he clearly has routinely used alternate testing in college. It should be a concern that he didn't ask, or didn't care to ask, for alternate testing. In addition, a disability so severe that you can't read or comprehend a basic sentence has got to put him at a severe disadvantage, even in a profession like football. If this is all the farther he got after 3 years of college, how much better is it going to get outside of a learning environment?

The real problem I see with Jerm's post is that he claims to work for a company that pays hostesses only $8 an hour to work at an upscale restaurant. That's really hard to believe. I've seen Chick-fil-A advertising a wage of $9 an hour. How smart can these hostesses be? Certainly not smart enough to score a minimum of a 22.

 

[SacramentoBob]

The real problem I see with Jerm's post is that he claims to work for a company that pays hostesses only $8 an hour to work at an upscale restaurant. That's really hard to believe. I've seen Chick-fil-A advertising a wage of $9 an hour. How smart can these hostesses be? Certainly not smart enough to score a minimum of a 22.

His story is falling apart quickly.

 

[RUSF18]

They have been talking about this on the NFL radio today. They are all outraged saying he has a learning disability, and this is reprehensible that this information became public. Maybe he has a learning disability, or maybe he is stupid. Being stupid isn't a crime, but it does effect the value of a player. His ability to learn schemes, and process information on the go does effect his ability to succeed as an NFL player. No one on the radio seemed to consider the possibility that this guy is just plain dumb. It doesn't mean he shouldn't be drafted, but it is certainly a factor that should go in to your evaluation. Would you feel comfortable knowing that you spent millions of dollars to sign your first round draft pick and then find out he is dumb as a fencepost?

I don't understand this statement. It seems like it's pretty clear that, at least among some in the media and college ranks, it's well known that Claiborne has a learning disability. So why WOULD they stop to consider whether he's "just dumb" when they already know that's not the case? I'm sure many of those same people have sat down with him and talked with him and can talk from personal experience about what they thought his level of intelligence is.

So far the ONLY person that I have seen even dare to TRY to imply that Claiborne doesn't have a learning disability is Mike Florio, the same guy that published the leak without ever contacting Claiborne or his agent for comment before running the story. Now that he looks like a schmuck for ridiculing a guy with a learning disability and carrying dirty water for some GM or other agent, Mike will do anything to try to squirm out of responsibility.

At the end of the day, how is having a learning disability different from being dumb? While its certainly possible that having a legitimate physical disability like dyslexia might negatively impact one's ability to score exceptionally well on a test, most people who have spent 3 years in college have had some tutoring to overcome these kinds of challenges. Learning disability or not, a 4 is a REALLY bad score, my 9 year-old daughter can do better than that - seriously.

I've taken the Wonderlic several times and have administered it several hundred times more as a component of our corporate interview process. I've NEVER seen a score that low, ever. Our BASELINE for employment consideration was a score of 22. This was to get a job as an $8/hour HOSTESS at an upscale casual RESTAURANT.

The test is not that hard. Four is a really bad score, almost unimaginably bad. Dude is either dumb, blind or doesn't care. None of which make for a good football player.

Not hating, just saying...

That's a pretty harsh assessment. Although not exactly the same, suppose you gave the wonderlic to a blind person. He's not likely to get a good result. Then have someone read the wonderlic to a blind person. He is likely to do much better.

That is the type of accomodation you make for a learning disabled person. If part of the test is to test reading and eyesight, then don't make any accomodation. If the goal is to be tested on the material and eyesight and reading ability are not being tested, then read them the test.

I suspect the wonderlic will lose meaning if they read the questions to him since it is a timed test and speed is one of the aspects being tested.

The wonderlic website makes it pretty clear they have options for the visually or hearing impaired. I'm sure they have options for a learning disability.I don't think The Jeminator is too far off base. If Claiborne's disability is so well known and bad, then he clearly has routinely used alternate testing in college. It should be a concern that he didn't ask, or didn't care to ask, for alternate testing. In addition, a disability so severe that you can't read or comprehend a basic sentence has got to put him at a severe disadvantage, even in a profession like football. If this is all the farther he got after 3 years of college, how much better is it going to get outside of a learning environment?

The real problem I see with Jerm's post is that he claims to work for a company that pays hostesses only $8 an hour to work at an upscale restaurant. That's really hard to believe. I've seen Chick-fil-A advertising a wage of $9 an hour. How smart can these hostesses be? Certainly not smart enough to score a minimum of a 22.

The hostesses probably get tipped out by the waiters/bartenders beyond the $8/hour.By that, of course, I mean giving out BJs.

 

[thayman]

They have been talking about this on the NFL radio today. They are all outraged saying he has a learning disability, and this is reprehensible that this information became public. Maybe he has a learning disability, or maybe he is stupid. Being stupid isn't a crime, but it does effect the value of a player. His ability to learn schemes, and process information on the go does effect his ability to succeed as an NFL player. No one on the radio seemed to consider the possibility that this guy is just plain dumb. It doesn't mean he shouldn't be drafted, but it is certainly a factor that should go in to your evaluation. Would you feel comfortable knowing that you spent millions of dollars to sign your first round draft pick and then find out he is dumb as a fencepost?

I don't understand this statement. It seems like it's pretty clear that, at least among some in the media and college ranks, it's well known that Claiborne has a learning disability. So why WOULD they stop to consider whether he's "just dumb" when they already know that's not the case? I'm sure many of those same people have sat down with him and talked with him and can talk from personal experience about what they thought his level of intelligence is.

So far the ONLY person that I have seen even dare to TRY to imply that Claiborne doesn't have a learning disability is Mike Florio, the same guy that published the leak without ever contacting Claiborne or his agent for comment before running the story. Now that he looks like a schmuck for ridiculing a guy with a learning disability and carrying dirty water for some GM or other agent, Mike will do anything to try to squirm out of responsibility.

At the end of the day, how is having a learning disability different from being dumb? While its certainly possible that having a legitimate physical disability like dyslexia might negatively impact one's ability to score exceptionally well on a test, most people who have spent 3 years in college have had some tutoring to overcome these kinds of challenges. Learning disability or not, a 4 is a REALLY bad score, my 9 year-old daughter can do better than that - seriously.

I've taken the Wonderlic several times and have administered it several hundred times more as a component of our corporate interview process. I've NEVER seen a score that low, ever. Our BASELINE for employment consideration was a score of 22. This was to get a job as an $8/hour HOSTESS at an upscale casual RESTAURANT.

The test is not that hard. Four is a really bad score, almost unimaginably bad. Dude is either dumb, blind or doesn't care. None of which make for a good football player.

Not hating, just saying...

That's a pretty harsh assessment. Although not exactly the same, suppose you gave the wonderlic to a blind person. He's not likely to get a good result. Then have someone read the wonderlic to a blind person. He is likely to do much better.

That is the type of accomodation you make for a learning disabled person. If part of the test is to test reading and eyesight, then don't make any accomodation. If the goal is to be tested on the material and eyesight and reading ability are not being tested, then read them the test.

I suspect the wonderlic will lose meaning if they read the questions to him since it is a timed test and speed is one of the aspects being tested.

The wonderlic website makes it pretty clear they have options for the visually or hearing impaired. I'm sure they have options for a learning disability.I don't think The Jeminator is too far off base. If Claiborne's disability is so well known and bad, then he clearly has routinely used alternate testing in college. It should be a concern that he didn't ask, or didn't care to ask, for alternate testing. In addition, a disability so severe that you can't read or comprehend a basic sentence has got to put him at a severe disadvantage, even in a profession like football. If this is all the farther he got after 3 years of college, how much better is it going to get outside of a learning environment?

The real problem I see with Jerm's post is that he claims to work for a company that pays hostesses only $8 an hour to work at an upscale restaurant. That's really hard to believe. I've seen Chick-fil-A advertising a wage of $9 an hour. How smart can these hostesses be? Certainly not smart enough to score a minimum of a 22.

That's a pretty standard wage for a Hostess starting out. Hostesses also get tipped out by waitstaff at most restaurants.

 

[coolnerd]

Apparently his agent did not know about the learning disability

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/03/bus-cook-in-shock-about-claiborne-test-score/

 

[griff321]

Time for a NCAA investigation into LSU. Any person that scores a 4, should not be academically eligible.

 

[Donnybrook]

Time for a NCAA investigation into LSU. Any person that scores a 4, should not be academically eligible.

Not to mention that I read somewhere that Patrick Peterson scored a 9.

 

[FavreCo]

As long as he can cover a WR well, who cares? He has a learning disability & will be a millionaire pretty soon here. Color me jealous.

Be jealous of the agent and others who will take those millions and stuff them into their own pockets.

 

[Csonka4life]

Does anybody know what Dexter Manley scored on the test he was functionally illiterate.

 

[Ksquared]

Bill Polian was on NFL radio this morning and he discussed this situation from a personal and NFL administrative stand point.1) He would strongly advise Claiborne to hire an attorney and sue the NFL and the test administering company. And he felt he would like win big. Polian said the scores are supposed to only be given to the General Manager of each team, head coach, and possibly the owner (that was an option which he always did with the Colts).2) How they used it was interesting - if someone scored really low. They would contact the college the player attended and discuss the player with the person in charge of the academic tutoring/learning disability coordinator. The answers they wanted to know about was the learning process that worked best with each player in these situations. I have always felt the only thing that the Wonderlic might indicate is an ability or inability to process information rapidly (less than a minute per question is allotted i believe) but it would have to be use in conjunction with game film. If there was an indicator in the plays being or not being made due to not processing what the player was seeing on the field, then the Wonderlic score could validate that interpretation of the film review. But I never thought about the fact the teams would investigate how they would possibly need to adjust their teaching for certain individuals due to the scores.

This isn't the first negative Wonderlic score to leak (not even close). Wonder why Polian never mentioned suing the NFL before this year.

Probably because he was a member of an NFL team's front office until this year and subject to all sorts of nice penalties from his Bosses (IE, the NFL)?Just an idea, but he probably has a BIT more leeway to speak his mind as a talking head at ESPN than when he was GM of the Colts, you think?

Uh yeah, I get it...that's the point. Bit hypocritical for him to suddenly "strongly advise" Claiborne to get an attorney.

Too bad you did not hear the interview. He emphasized how strongly every team was warned about leaking any scores by the NFL and how harsh the penalties it would be to anyone determined to have leaked it. But your "hypocrisy" statement is a joke. So as a paid member of a company he is supposed to announce publicly that someone could/should sue his organization? I guess if you wanted to be poor and unemployed, you can do that wherever you have worked. But wake up to the real world.

 

[rizzler]

Time for a NCAA investigation into LSU. Any person that scores a 4, should not be academically eligible.

wow, really?can of worms = opened.

 

[Premier]

@MoClaiborne: Some peopl don't no what the test is about r what it is for. But u guys will have to do more then that to bring Momo17 dwn!!! $$$$$

@MoClaiborne: Well talking to NFL teams the test do not seem to be a issues for them. So why is it a issues for you people. You guys don't no me #Top10

I'm starting to believe that 4 is pretty legit.

 

[rizzler]

This guy has been in school for 20+ years.

University, even.

If he is scoring a 4 on the test, this is more the fault of the American educational system, than anything else.

 

[griff321]

@MoClaiborne: Some peopl don't no what the test is about r what it is for. But u guys will have to do more then that to bring Momo17 dwn!!! $$$$$ @MoClaiborne: Well talking to NFL teams the test do not seem to be a issues for them. So why is it a issues for you people. You guys don't no me #Top10I'm starting to believe that 4 is pretty legit.

Well with that response I totally withdraw my judgement.

 

[PewterFan]

@MoClaiborne: Some peopl don't no what the test is about r what it is for. But u guys will have to do more then that to bring Momo17 dwn!!! $$$ @MoClaiborne: Well talking to NFL teams the test do not seem to be a issues for them. So why is it a issues for you people. You guys don't no me #Top10I'm starting to believe that 4 is pretty legit.

Well with that response I totally withdraw my judgement.

Pretty much every athlete in the NFL and NBA tweet like that.

 

[Hoosier16]

This guy has been in school for 20+ years.University, even. If he is scoring a 4 on the test, this is more the fault of the American educational system, than anything else.

You're kidding, right?

 

[shader]

This guy has been in school for 20+ years.University, even. If he is scoring a 4 on the test, this is more the fault of the American educational system, than anything else.

You're kidding, right?

Why would he be kidding?

 

[shader]

I don't remember the outrage and support when Vince Young's score was leaked.

Who cares. Claiborne will still make millions. I'm not going to feel sorry for him. Pretty laughable that he can get through high school and college and then completely flunk a test as easy as the wonderlic.

 

[Hoosier16]

This guy has been in school for 20+ years.University, even. If he is scoring a 4 on the test, this is more the fault of the American educational system, than anything else.

You're kidding, right?

Why would he be kidding?

I don't know. I was thinking some wild idea that maybe the fault lies more with Claiborne?

 

[cobalt_27]

This guy has been in school for 20+ years.University, even. If he is scoring a 4 on the test, this is more the fault of the American educational system, than anything else.

You're kidding, right?

Why would he be kidding?

I don't know. I was thinking some wild idea that maybe the fault lies more with Claiborne?

Because he might have a neurologically- and developmentally-based learning disorder?

 

[SWC]

i have all sorts of issues and i wonder what i would get on this thing i can tell you this i have a hard time with ssome written stuff but when i get my head around on what im supposed to do i will work circles around most because i have a good work ethic and use my issues to motivate me to work harder so i hope he does to and that he keeps on taking it to the bank cowboy up work ethic style and turns into a brohan with a plan to destroy the opposition

 

[RUSF18]

Bill Polian was on NFL radio this morning and he discussed this situation from a personal and NFL administrative stand point.1) He would strongly advise Claiborne to hire an attorney and sue the NFL and the test administering company. And he felt he would like win big. Polian said the scores are supposed to only be given to the General Manager of each team, head coach, and possibly the owner (that was an option which he always did with the Colts).2) How they used it was interesting - if someone scored really low. They would contact the college the player attended and discuss the player with the person in charge of the academic tutoring/learning disability coordinator. The answers they wanted to know about was the learning process that worked best with each player in these situations. I have always felt the only thing that the Wonderlic might indicate is an ability or inability to process information rapidly (less than a minute per question is allotted i believe) but it would have to be use in conjunction with game film. If there was an indicator in the plays being or not being made due to not processing what the player was seeing on the field, then the Wonderlic score could validate that interpretation of the film review. But I never thought about the fact the teams would investigate how they would possibly need to adjust their teaching for certain individuals due to the scores.

This isn't the first negative Wonderlic score to leak (not even close). Wonder why Polian never mentioned suing the NFL before this year.

Probably because he was a member of an NFL team's front office until this year and subject to all sorts of nice penalties from his Bosses (IE, the NFL)?Just an idea, but he probably has a BIT more leeway to speak his mind as a talking head at ESPN than when he was GM of the Colts, you think?

Uh yeah, I get it...that's the point. Bit hypocritical for him to suddenly "strongly advise" Claiborne to get an attorney.

Too bad you did not hear the interview. He emphasized how strongly every team was warned about leaking any scores by the NFL and how harsh the penalties it would be to anyone determined to have leaked it. But your "hypocrisy" statement is a joke. So as a paid member of a company he is supposed to announce publicly that someone could/should sue his organization? I guess if you wanted to be poor and unemployed, you can do that wherever you have worked. But wake up to the real world.

Please, it's the definition of hypocrisy. Forget about instructing someone to sue while he was employed. When these scores were consistently leaked in past years, did Polian ever stand up and say that it needs to stop? Did he try to use his influence as one of the top GMs in the league to make sure those who leaked the scores faced those harsh penalties, as he put it?

 

[Ksquared]

Bill Polian was on NFL radio this morning and he discussed this situation from a personal and NFL administrative stand point.1) He would strongly advise Claiborne to hire an attorney and sue the NFL and the test administering company. And he felt he would like win big. Polian said the scores are supposed to only be given to the General Manager of each team, head coach, and possibly the owner (that was an option which he always did with the Colts).2) How they used it was interesting - if someone scored really low. They would contact the college the player attended and discuss the player with the person in charge of the academic tutoring/learning disability coordinator. The answers they wanted to know about was the learning process that worked best with each player in these situations. I have always felt the only thing that the Wonderlic might indicate is an ability or inability to process information rapidly (less than a minute per question is allotted i believe) but it would have to be use in conjunction with game film. If there was an indicator in the plays being or not being made due to not processing what the player was seeing on the field, then the Wonderlic score could validate that interpretation of the film review. But I never thought about the fact the teams would investigate how they would possibly need to adjust their teaching for certain individuals due to the scores.

This isn't the first negative Wonderlic score to leak (not even close). Wonder why Polian never mentioned suing the NFL before this year.

Probably because he was a member of an NFL team's front office until this year and subject to all sorts of nice penalties from his Bosses (IE, the NFL)?Just an idea, but he probably has a BIT more leeway to speak his mind as a talking head at ESPN than when he was GM of the Colts, you think?

Uh yeah, I get it...that's the point. Bit hypocritical for him to suddenly "strongly advise" Claiborne to get an attorney.

Too bad you did not hear the interview. He emphasized how strongly every team was warned about leaking any scores by the NFL and how harsh the penalties it would be to anyone determined to have leaked it. But your "hypocrisy" statement is a joke. So as a paid member of a company he is supposed to announce publicly that someone could/should sue his organization? I guess if you wanted to be poor and unemployed, you can do that wherever you have worked. But wake up to the real world.

Please, it's the definition of hypocrisy. Forget about instructing someone to sue while he was employed. When these scores were consistently leaked in past years, did Polian ever stand up and say that it needs to stop? Did he try to use his influence as one of the top GMs in the league to make sure those who leaked the scores faced those harsh penalties, as he put it?

Actually when I listened to him, I got the indication that he very likely did say this stuff, but behind the company doors where it should be. This hypocrisy label that gets thrown around is a joke if we don't know that Polian may have very well been extremely vocal about this issue with others in the NFL. Just because someone does not say it so you can hear it, does not mean they have not in the past.

 

[Time Kibitzer]

S-E-C! S-E-C! S-E-C!

 

[rizzler]

This guy has been in school for 20+ years.University, even. If he is scoring a 4 on the test, this is more the fault of the American educational system, than anything else.

You're kidding, right?

Why would he be kidding?

I don't know. I was thinking some wild idea that maybe the fault lies more with Claiborne?

Because he might have a neurologically- and developmentally-based learning disorder?

No, I am far from kidding.As a post secondary educator, I could go on a lengthy diatribe, or even get a colleague from the Applied Disabilities department to do it for me.But I digress, as it should be self explanatory as to how this is largely the American Educational System's fault.

 

[dickey moe]

Be it college or professional sports, we all know that talent trumps education. The key question is how was he allowed to graduate from high school.