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Clash of Clans (Official thread) (5 Viewers)

Sputnikv8 said:
freeannyong said:
AcerFC said:
Am I misunderstanding the pbt. Do you get that if you are on for three hours or is there another way to get it
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So PBT starts at 3 hrs and counts down your online time when you do not have a shield or active village guard. BUT it only resets once you have been offline for 30 minutes or get a shield.

So say you play for 1hr log off for 15 minutes (don't get attacked) then log in, you only have 2 hrs left until you are forced off. And there is no in game timer value for you to see so good luck guessing If you have reset the counter.
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The "...have been offline for 30 mins" part doesn't seem to work the way we think. Like SMN said, he was offline doing other stuff (driving, detailing his car, etc) yet he still gets "coc blocked" ( i just made that up...totally gonna use that on SC forum). Thoughts being any type of nexting over your village, unsuccesful attacks actually pause this timer and make it longer than 30 minutes on a wall clock.Here is a great post that hasn't got too bloated yet recounting exactly what SMN saw: http://forum.supercell.net/showthread.php/920697-Personal-Break-Timer-for-Strong-Bases-Explained-in-10-lines

"CoC blocked"... Lol!
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The problem seems to be that the 3 hour PBT timer is cumulative and not consecutive. One hour on, one hour off, one hour on, one hour off, one hour on, boom PBT kicks in (assuming no attacks during off time). They need to take into account unshielded, unattacked off time to prevent the PBT from kicking in.

 
What that article is failing to realize is that there is a huge OUTFLOW that will be removed from the game.

Casual players who accumulate resources and sit behind free shields.

If these players can no longer get ahead, they will leave the game. Now all of the loot that they were taking from the game to use in upgrades will be put back into the global economy. As long as what they were adding (which will also disappear) was less then what they were taking it is a NET POSITIVE to the global economy.

Same goes for bot accounts.

This will shift the user base to more active players and gemmers. Which I am sure is what coc wants.

 
I'm down about 1m in elixir from raids since the update whereas I would have normally lost 0 with free shields. As someone who raids 2x a day that's a major PIA.

 
I'm in master 3 and find that lots of players aren't used to using full attacks now that there are no more snipes.

 
Personally, I'm still well up over what I have lost. However, I am now more content to sit behind my 14 hour shield, especially when ill be up when it ends. So I might actually start using all my gems to boost collectors. At that point, with my one, maybe two attacks a day I'll be at a net gain for a bit.

But I fall into the group who now thinks it's worth it to sit behind shield rather than attack through shield. I don't think there are any defensive bases that will hold consistently and that is another problem SC overlooked. Maybe I'm wrong here, but after trying a lot of bases, im not confident that it exists.

I might just put my TH out but near the edge of my base where defenses can get attackers bc my troll base is not protecting resources like my farming base did.

 
AcerFC said:
Personally, I'm still well up over what I have lost. However, I am now more content to sit behind my 14 hour shield, especially when ill be up when it ends. So I might actually start using all my gems to boost collectors. At that point, with my one, maybe two attacks a day I'll be at a net gain for a bit.

But I fall into the group who now thinks it's worth it to sit behind shield rather than attack through shield. I don't think there are any defensive bases that will hold consistently and that is another problem SC overlooked. Maybe I'm wrong here, but after trying a lot of bases, im not confident that it exists.

I might just put my TH out but near the edge of my base where defenses can get attackers bc my troll base is not protecting resources like my farming base did.
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7. TLDR: Because loot drain is not enough, a shift in shield distribution further accentuates the drought by hiding the bases worth hitting and only showing the hard / no loot bases.

In the past, everyone who leaves their TH outside (whether premie or maxed base) will get sniped equally, inject money into the economy, and get a shield. Now that everyone has their TH in and there is no more league bonus, the distribution of shields will skew towards the weaker bases / bases with lots of loot. For example: imagine there are 10 max TH10s with no loot and 10 weak TH9s with 400k each. Who do you think will get shields first? Obviously the second group. And once all the loot-worthy TH9s are behind shields, then what? You can only attack the max TH10s with no loot, or a wait a long time until the TH9s run out of shield. Drought...

8. TLDR: More people are waiting out their shields, further accentuating the drought by removing their loot from the queue.

This just keeps getting worse eh… Because a lot of people figured out the above (even if not consciously), I start reading replies from people who would rather wait out their shields than break it as they did pre-update (when they knew they will get a free shield by exposing their TH). By waiting out their shield, they keep their bases out of the queue. The people with this sentiment are usually the ones who are hit a lot, probably because their base isn't max / they have a lot of loot. So with their bases out of the queue, there are even fewer bases that are economical / viable for raid. As a result, there will be longer stretches of time where all you can find are max bases with little loot (think the TH10s in the above example). More drought...

These are the two biggest issues in a nutshell right here. Anyone who can't see that they have to fix this whole thing, and quickly is insane.

 
The real problem is that players can attack three times before their shield runs out.

Eventually this could lead to fewer good targets.

Let's say a quarter of the user base gets a shield. They attack, picking targets from the other three quarters. No problem.

Now they all attack again, picking from only half the user base. Ok things are getting worse.

Now they want to attack a third time. Ugh. The worst quarter of bases are all that is available.

Then imagine the players that got hit in round one come online and try to attack. Half the user base nexting through a quarter of the user base??

 
Same with me Cliff. The game is going to shift to needing to be more skilled at attacking and defending to get ahead.

I still think you can farm, but the speed of your progress will be largely based on how much you take in/lose each shield cycle.

Attacking more than once while under shield will be the best way to maintain a good farming pace.

This is probably going to be mandatory for elixir upgrades when you consider the elixir drain of building your army.

 
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freeannyong said:
Cliff Clavin said:
Not sure what this drought they're talking about is. Most loot I've ever seen in the game.
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I am seeing plenty too, but how long will it be like that?
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:shrug:

Doubt it gets worse than it was before when all the loot was behind cheap shields. I find something to attack within 10-20 bases. Previously I'd have to sift through 50+ max 10s just to find a single TH9. Finding a loaded TH9 was damn near impossible. Now they're all over the place.

 
And I find it hilarious that these people are freaking out about the "economy" based on their inferences. SC knows a metric #### ton more than they do. They know what is in play, behind shields, getting handed out in bonuses, etc. They don't just make changes like this on a whim.

 
Cliff Clavin said:
And I find it hilarious that these people are freaking out about the "economy" based on their inferences. SC knows a metric #### ton more than they do. They know what is in play, behind shields, getting handed out in bonuses, etc. They don't just make changes like this on a whim.
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talk to the execs who came up with new coke. Sometimes it's possible to overthink things. I think this is one of them.
 
AcerFC said:
Cliff Clavin said:
And I find it hilarious that these people are freaking out about the "economy" based on their inferences. SC knows a metric #### ton more than they do. They know what is in play, behind shields, getting handed out in bonuses, etc. They don't just make changes like this on a whim.
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talk to the execs who came up with new coke. Sometimes it's possible to overthink things. I think this is one of them.
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Poor example. This is something that they have a ton of data on and can run endless simulations on.

And if there does end up being a problem with it, they can make a few tweaks.

 
Cliff Clavin said:
And I find it hilarious that these people are freaking out about the "economy" based on their inferences. SC knows a metric #### ton more than they do. They know what is in play, behind shields, getting handed out in bonuses, etc. They don't just make changes like this on a whim.
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What about elixer walls? Was that a whim?

 
I can't imagine what this game would look like if they listened to every wacko screaming on a message board about the terrible updates and how they're uninstalling.

 
The Duff Man said:
The real problem is that players can attack three times before their shield runs out.

Eventually this could lead to fewer good targets.

Let's say a quarter of the user base gets a shield. They attack, picking targets from the other three quarters. No problem.

Now they all attack again, picking from only half the user base. Ok things are getting worse.

Now they want to attack a third time. Ugh. The worst quarter of bases are all that is available.

Then imagine the players that got hit in round one come online and try to attack. Half the user base nexting through a quarter of the user base??
Click to expand...
Compared to when people got free shields, there will always be more available targets in this system.

 
culdeus said:
Cliff Clavin said:
And I find it hilarious that these people are freaking out about the "economy" based on their inferences. SC knows a metric #### ton more than they do. They know what is in play, behind shields, getting handed out in bonuses, etc. They don't just make changes like this on a whim.
Click to expand...
What about elixer walls? Was that a whim?
Click to expand...
I understand wanting to trust them Cliff but to think all of their decisions are perfect is flawed. The above is a great example.

They have removed a ton of loot from the economy and no one has shown how it's getting put back in. Yes the bases are loaded now, but after a week when those bases are cleaned out what then?

What about the people that now don't want to attack because once they do they lose 3k DE?

What about how stupid it is that they force you to have good defense, but if it's TOO good you get no shield. For example I got hit with a 100% army + cc + hero's for 29%. No shield. They are telling me to have good defense and I do but now I don't get a shield???

 
freeannyong said:
culdeus said:
Cliff Clavin said:
And I find it hilarious that these people are freaking out about the "economy" based on their inferences. SC knows a metric #### ton more than they do. They know what is in play, behind shields, getting handed out in bonuses, etc. They don't just make changes like this on a whim.
Click to expand...
What about elixer walls? Was that a whim?
Click to expand...
I understand wanting to trust them Cliff but to think all of their decisions are perfect is flawed. The above is a great example. They have removed a ton of loot from the economy and no one has shown how it's getting put back in. Yes the bases are loaded now, but after a week when those bases are cleaned out what then?

What about the people that now don't want to attack because once they do they lose 3k DE?

What about how stupid it is that they force you to have good defense, but if it's TOO good you get no shield. For example I got hit with a 100% army + cc + hero's for 29%. No shield. They are telling me to have good defense and I do but now I don't get a shield???
Click to expand...
How about we wait and see before freaking out about it? I'm not trying to say that they'll be perfect by any means. But Christ, we don't have a clue what the economy looks like so why ##### about what it might be like in a few weeks? It is awesome right now.

Why do you deserve a shield because of a terrible attack? You had good D and protected your resources. That's the point of the game. They have to put a limit on shields at some point and at 30%, the bar is pretty low.

I would think that there should be a loot bonus for defenses so you are rewarded for good D.

I don't get the not wanting to attack part. I'll get 4 attacks in before my shield breaks. That'll be well over 10K DE. Yeah, I'm going to lose 2500 of that but it is still a massive gain compared to before the update.

Before the update I wouldn't attack because I had to break my shield and it was a 1 to 1 ratio. Now it's 4 to 1. I can get 4 full raids in with both heroes up and a full set of spells.

 
I can't get 4 attacks in with a shield unless I raid light. And that is only viable in gold where you throw out all gobs armies until someone shields you or they lock you out.

 
I think a tough decision will be to spend the DE if you need lab upgrades over what will take a really long time to upgarde heroes above 25 or so if you lose DE every time.

I'm really conflicted right now and am not sure which side is more prudent in terms of saving. Keeping a 14 hour shield or raid once or twice through it. With a 14 hour once, it might make sense to make an attack.

 
If everyone goes to gold, wont gold be the new champs?

Sure others will be mixed in but not sure there is a huge upside there. I made that mistake a few times and regretted it every time

 
culdeus said:
I can't get 4 attacks in with a shield unless I raid light. And that is only viable in gold where you throw out all gobs armies until someone shields you or they lock you out.
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My build now is 25 minutes since I don't have to worry about back cooking. Previously I'd have 4 healers (56 spots) unused on my first attack so that is I'd able to attack right after. Not no more! It's the spells and heroes that I wait on.

 
Cliff Clavin said:
culdeus said:
I can't get 4 attacks in with a shield unless I raid light. And that is only viable in gold where you throw out all gobs armies until someone shields you or they lock you out.
Click to expand...
My build now is 25 minutes since I don't have to worry about back cooking. Previously I'd have 4 healers (56 spots) unused on my first attack so that is I'd able to attack right after. Not no more! It's the spells and heroes that I wait on.
Click to expand...
ive never done an AQ walk but my build time is about 50 minutes and that is with no donating. Spells are 2.5 hrs. No way I can attack 3 times let alone 4. Plus I am not really in much. But for the people like you who can, I can see this being awesome.
 
AcerFC said:
Cliff Clavin said:
culdeus said:
I can't get 4 attacks in with a shield unless I raid light. And that is only viable in gold where you throw out all gobs armies until someone shields you or they lock you out.
Click to expand...
My build now is 25 minutes since I don't have to worry about back cooking. Previously I'd have 4 healers (56 spots) unused on my first attack so that is I'd able to attack right after. Not no more! It's the spells and heroes that I wait on.
Click to expand...
ive never done an AQ walk but my build time is about 50 minutes and that is with no donating. Spells are 2.5 hrs. No way I can attack 3 times let alone 4. Plus I am not really in much. But for the people like you who can, I can see this being awesome.
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That is just weekends. During the week I'll attack once in the morning, maybe one at lunch and one or two at night depending on when the kid goes to bed. Previously I wouldn't attack at lunch because I didn't want to break my shield.

 
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I am not freaking out about it, just considering the possibility that the loot is going to dry up. Just because it's great today doesn't mean it will be in two weeks or a month. I don't remember at all but how long did it take after the walls to elixir change for th8 elixir to become an issue?

I deserve a shield because I defended an attack. Why is it my responsibility that the attacker is good? I have built my defense up to the point where it is strong. If they use all of their army and fail why should I not get a shield?

Instead I lose the loot they took, have to rearm traps xbow infernos and then defend another attack.

 
You should get the loot bonus if you defend and attack like that. I know it's been said before, but I second it

 
freeannyong said:
I am not freaking out about it, just considering the possibility that the loot is going to dry up. Just because it's great today doesn't mean it will be in two weeks or a month. I don't remember at all but how long did it take after the walls to elixir change for th8 elixir to become an issue?

I deserve a shield because I defended an attack. Why is it my responsibility that the attacker is good? I have built my defense up to the point where it is strong. If they use all of their army and fail why should I not get a shield?

Instead I lose the loot they took, have to rearm traps xbow infernos and then defend another attack.
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The TH8 wall thing was before my time.

It isn't your responsibility. You just don't benefit from someone being ####ty.

So what should be the barrier for a shield? Just getting attacked at all?

 
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Cliff Clavin said:
What's the logic behind the mass trophy drop?
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Go to a place where you can use barch strength armies and don't care if you win or lose. Expose yourself to weaker players and th that might not raid you.

Loot bonus cuts in high leagues makes heavy army raiding unsustainable.

 
Cliff Clavin said:
freeannyong said:
I am not freaking out about it, just considering the possibility that the loot is going to dry up. Just because it's great today doesn't mean it will be in two weeks or a month. I don't remember at all but how long did it take after the walls to elixir change for th8 elixir to become an issue?

I deserve a shield because I defended an attack. Why is it my responsibility that the attacker is good? I have built my defense up to the point where it is strong. If they use all of their army and fail why should I not get a shield?

Instead I lose the loot they took, have to rearm traps xbow infernos and then defend another attack.
Click to expand...
The TH8 wall thing was before my time.It isn't your responsibility. You just don't benefit from someone being ####ty.

So what should be the barrier for a shield? Just getting attacked at all?
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The only thing I would add from what they have done is:

If 95%+ of army used for an attack ... You get a shield. Maybe it's just an 8hr shield, but something.

 
culdeus said:
Cliff Clavin said:
And nice to see that people can still mod in wars. Meta clans are safe.
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You all still start at like 6pm? I suggest pushing back to like 1 or 2pm. This puts you in China's bedtime. Not to be racist but its pretty well known they just don't give a ####. The Muslims you get tend to play clean.
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Wish you had suggested this sooner. Opponent only has 7 max bases which is the lowest we have seen in a long ### time.

 
culdeus said:
Cliff Clavin said:
What's the logic behind the mass trophy drop?
Click to expand...
Go to a place where you can use barch strength armies and don't care if you win or lose. Expose yourself to weaker players and th that might not raid you. Loot bonus cuts in high leagues makes heavy army raiding unsustainable.
Click to expand...
Makes sense for TH10 I guess. Not for lower though. TH9 is going to get rolled no matter the level so I'd rather push higher and get crushed by a TH10 and lose less while getting a bonus for raiding.

 
freeannyong said:
culdeus said:
Cliff Clavin said:
And nice to see that people can still mod in wars. Meta clans are safe.
Click to expand...
You all still start at like 6pm? I suggest pushing back to like 1 or 2pm. This puts you in China's bedtime. Not to be racist but its pretty well known they just don't give a ####. The Muslims you get tend to play clean.
Click to expand...
Wish you had suggested this sooner. Opponent only has 7 max bases which is the lowest we have seen in a long ### time.
Click to expand...
For the record, I mentioned this in chat last weekend before I opted out for the week while AQ is down. :shrug:

 
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