Classic Album Discussion Thread: The Kinks-Lola Versus Powerman and the Moneygoround, Pt. 1 (1 Viewer)

[krista4]

As a tried to illustrate earlier in my insomniac-morning post, putting SPLHCB on the turntable in l967 was music getting the wagon to the top of the ridge below which lay the Promised Land. We were switching from mono to stereo, figuring out that songs could be about anything and didn't even have to be hits but part of a bigger thing or theme and we could make a hit of that as a piece, recognized from Pet Sounds that there was a sonic landscape where people's dreams could be hosted. And the boys in the colorful silk jackets, epaulets & moustaches nailed the landing.

Beautifully put.  I wasn't quite alive yet when it came out and particularly appreciate hearing the thoughts of those who experienced it real-time.

Looking forward to watching that BBC program.

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

Seems most of us don't rank Sgt. Pepper as highly as music critics do.  I'm in the same boat - don't think it's even in my top five of Beatles records.  That said, I can understand why it's ranked highly on critics' lists based on how groundbreaking it was, and I do have some favorites:

There’s also probably a split where people who experienced The Beatles in real time hold Sgt Pepper’s in higher regard because of what a revelation it was on release.  I wasn’t educated on the Beatles chronologically, so when I listened to Sgt Pepper’s for the first time I didn’t have the context of this album being made by the same four who were known for songs like “Love Me Do” and “I Wanna Hold Your Hand”.  That’s an experience that can’t be created in a lab.  

 

[simey]

I am also among those that views Sgt Pepper as below some of The Beatles' other albums, but can't deny its incredible production and influence . Of course, we still haven't gotten to the album that was the key influence of Sgt. Pepper's itself.

And the key influence to the album you are talking about was RS.

 

[zamboni]

And the key influence to the album you are talking about was RS.

Yup, it was quite a game of one-upsmanship between the two bands back then.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

She’s Leaving Home

One of the most beautiful ballads John ever wrote IMO, rivaling Imagine, Oh My Love and Julia. The lyrics are incredibly brilliant and poignant and I feel as much for the parents as for the girl. As good as anything on this album. 

Many artists have done covers of this; my favorite is Billy Bragg. 

You may want to re-listen to this one.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Sgt. Peppers is not my favorite (or even second favorite) album by The Beatles, but I think it is very good. My favorite song on the album is A Day In The Life, and I dig hearing Sgt. Peppers Lonely Hearts Club-Reprise leading into it.

I would choose Abbey Road and Revolver over SP (and on certain days maybe Rubber Soul) but there is no denying it's greatness.

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

And the key influence to the album you are talking about was RS.

Yup, it was quite a game of one-upsmanship between the two bands back then.

I took a guided tour of Tin Pan Alley when I was in London last year.  The music historian guiding us said that any rivalry between The Beatles and The Rolling Stones, or The Who, or any other participant in the Invasion was a creation by the media and/or fans.  John & Paul, Mick & Keith, Pete & Roger, etc. were all a band of brothers going to each other’s shows, giving each other feedback and advice on songs and demos, all trying to help all of them make it as musicians.  The Beatles felt their true rival was The Beach Boys, all the way back to She Loves You vs Little Deuce Coupe through their innovation/experimentation of their later work.

 

[wikkidpissah]

 appreciate hearing the thoughts of those who experienced it real-time.

Yeah, once we'd affixed the the last thatching in the roof so the sound wouldn't get out, our servant Buck lit the lanterns and brought out the spirit box my granny had brought over from Enguland. Once our incantations summoned the necessary amount of essence from the phlogiston, the strangest sound emananted. A most infernal rhythmic banging and shouts of "It was 20 years ago today" emanated from the spirit box and ol' Mammy started a-twichin' as though possessed and we danced and danced til the womenfolk were overcome by the vapors. Lawdy, it was shonuff sum'n!

 

[timschochet]

Alright! For some reason I thought John wrote She's Leaving Home. Paul wrote it. I stand corrected! (by about 20 people.)

 

[Leroy Hoard]

I took a guided tour of Tin Pan Alley when I was in London last year.  The music historian guiding us said that any rivalry between The Beatles and The Rolling Stones, or The Who, or any other participant in the Invasion was a creation by the media and/or fans.  John & Paul, Mick & Keith, Pete & Roger, etc. were all a band of brothers going to each other’s shows, giving each other feedback and advice on songs and demos, all trying to help all of them make it as musicians.  The Beatles felt their true rival was The Beach Boys, all the way back to She Loves You vs Little Deuce Coupe through their innovation/experimentation of their later work.

Excellent point lost on the YouTube fanboys who are incapable of saying something nice without putting down another artist.

 

[zamboni]

I took a guided tour of Tin Pan Alley when I was in London last year.  The music historian guiding us said that any rivalry between The Beatles and The Rolling Stones, or The Who, or any other participant in the Invasion was a creation by the media and/or fans.  John & Paul, Mick & Keith, Pete & Roger, etc. were all a band of brothers going to each other’s shows, giving each other feedback and advice on songs and demos, all trying to help all of them make it as musicians.  The Beatles felt their true rival was The Beach Boys, all the way back to She Loves You vs Little Deuce Coupe through their innovation/experimentation of their later work.

What tour did you take? I did a R&R walking tour in London as well a few years ago - saw a lot of cool sites.

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

Excellent point lost on the YouTube fanboys who are incapable of saying something nice without putting down another artist.

Amen to that.

Our guide was specific about Mick understanding the business well enough to know rising the tide would lift all the boats.  Mick wanted The Beatles to draw a huge rating on Ed Sullivan, so then the show would want to book The Rolling Stones and draw another huge rating.  Mick wanted the new Who single to bresk out on the radio, because that would also pave the way for more radio play for The Stones.  And vice versa.

 

[Godsbrother]

Seems most of us don't rank Sgt. Pepper as highly as music critics do.  I'm in the same boat - don't think it's even in my top five of Beatles records.  That said, I can understand why it's ranked highly on critics' lists based on how groundbreaking it was, and I do have some favorites:

A Day in the Life - This is not just a masterpiece to be admired, but a highly enjoyable listen.  I am endlessly fascinated by it no matter how many times I've heard it.  I'll write a lot more about all of these, but particularly this one, when I do my Beatles song countdown soon.

Lovely Rita - I've only recently come to appreciate this one but find it charming and hilarious.  There's a point just over a minute in where Paul yells "Rita!" and then it goes into a piano part that's jaunty and fun.  I assume that's George Martin on the piano, but I bet @Godsbrother knows.  Love the ending to this song, too.

Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band - Love the vocal and the fuzzy guitar, but the drums really stand out to me on this.

Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds -  Another that I've only appreciated more recently.  The dreamy quality and dreamy lyrics, the tempo changes...

With a Little Help from My Friends - My favorite song with Ringo on vocal.  The call-and-response is fantastic.  I love Ringo's voice (and of course of course his drumming), but don't love his songwriting, so it's fitting that my favorite "Ringo song" isn't a Ringo song.  

Good Morning Good Morning - This song is bonkers and I love it.  No idea how Ringo could perform this song.  He's off the chain on this one.

Within You Without You - I could listen to this forever.  It's very soothing.  Love its placement on the record and how it breaks up the two circus-y songs.

Yep.  George Martin plays the piano solo with the tape recording slow so when it was played at normal speed it was at a higher pitch (and obviously faster).

 

[zamboni]

Amen to that.

Our guide was specific about Mick understanding the business well enough to know rising the tide would lift all the boats.  Mick wanted The Beatles to draw a huge rating on Ed Sullivan, so then the show would want to book The Rolling Stones and draw another huge rating.  Mick wanted the new Who single to bresk out on the radio, because that would also pave the way for more radio play for The Stones.  And vice versa.

Definitely chummy, as evidenced from John's appearance on The Rolling Stones Rock and Roll Circus. Some friendly banter between Mick and John, before John plays with Keith (and Mitch Mitchell and Clapton) as part of the conjured-up Dirty Mac.

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

What tour did you take? I did a R&R walking tour in London as well a few years ago - saw a lot of cool sites.

Don’t remember the exact title.  We started at the Tottenham Court Road tube station - the guide wanted to start the story in front of a theater where Bill Haley & The Comets bombed when they came to London because all their counterculture fans were disappointed in their suits and crew cuts.  Then over to Tin Pan Alley and all the stores and studios there, also pointing out the art school across the street Keith and Bowie studied at when they weren’t making music.  Hit a couple other club sites, like one that hosted the first London show of “The New Yardbirds” (Plant, Page, Jones, Bonham) and the venue Brian Epstein ran, discovering he could draw good acts and big attendance on Sunday nights when the West End theaters were closed.  Guide showed us show flyers advertising lineups like Hendrix and The Who on the same night and ticket.  

 

[zamboni]

Don’t remember the exact title.  We started at the Tottenham Court Road tube station - the guide wanted to start the story in front of a theater where Bill Haley & The Comets bombed when they came to London because all their counterculture fans were disappointed in their suits and crew cuts.  Then over to Tin Pan Alley and all the stores and studios there, also pointing out the art school across the street Keith and Bowie studied at when they weren’t making music.  Hit a couple other club sites, like one that hosted the first London show of “The New Yardbirds” (Plant, Page, Jones, Bonham) and the venue Brian Epstein ran, discovering he could draw good acts and big attendance on Sunday nights when the West End theaters were closed.  Guide showed us show flyers advertising lineups like Hendrix and The Who on the same night and ticket.  

Nice. Sounds like a different one than I did, but there's no shortage of sites/landmarks to see around there. Did some of my own exploring as well.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Yep.  George Martin plays the piano solo with the tape recording slow so when it was played at normal speed it was at a higher pitch (and obviously faster).

As talented as certain others were, he really was the 5th Beatle.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Definitely chummy, as evidenced from John's appearance on The Rolling Stones Rock and Roll Circus. Some friendly banter between Mick and John, before John plays with Keith (and Mitch Mitchell and Clapton) as part of the conjured-up Dirty Mac.

and John and Paul sang backup on the Stones "We Love You" while Mick, Keith and Brian Jones sang in the Chorus on "All You Need is Love". There's also little pictures of all four Beatles hiding in the flowers on Their Satanic Majesties Request album cover, and the doll on the cover of SPLHCB with the words "Welcome Rolling Stones, Good Guys" on it's shirt.

John and Paul also wrote the song "I Wanna Be Your Man" to be one of the Stones first singles.

 

[zamboni]

and John and Paul sang backup on the Stones "We Love You" while Mick, Keith and Brian Jones sang in the Chorus on "All You Need is Love". There's also little pictures of all four Beatles hiding in the flowers on Their Satanic Majesties Request album cover, and the doll on the cover of SPLHCB with the words "Welcome Rolling Stones, Good Guys" on it's shirt.

John and Paul also wrote the song "I Wanna Be Your Man" to be one of the Stones first singles.

Then again, I'm surprised Mick and Keith didn't hate John after this: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3rikpp (brace yourself from the 1:50 mark onwards) 

 

[wikkidpissah]

Then again, I'm surprised Mick and Keith didn't hate John after this: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3rikpp (brace yourself from the 1:50 mark onwards) 

best opening act Gallagher ever had....

 

[zamboni]

best opening act Gallagher ever had....

I assume meaning that if her head was a watermelon.

 

[rockaction]

I agree with Leroy that negative things shouldn't be said in the halls of greatness, but allow my to intone that The Beach Boys landed leftward and west of the Atlantic, damn near Pacific, of this album that is thought to be its greater, a timeless march through emotion and dissonance of all kinds. Pet Sounds deserves its own box set, every wave unfolding, every tide anew. It's quite clear Sgt. Pepper could never oust his General, nor his Master, nor his Commander. It was, after all, futile to fight the battle of eternity and teenage prayers to God.  

There should be no pop/rock countdown that gets to ten without Pet Sounds up for grabs. 

 

[Eephus]

The Sgt. Pepper movie deserves a post.  There are some cheesy movies that fall into the "so bad it's good" category but Sgt. Pepper really is as bad as its reputation. 

The trailer provides hints about what made it fail:  poor casting, lame musical numbers, poorly executed slapstick but 3 1/2 minutes of clips doesn't show how slowly it was paced.  There is very little plot to speak of, which gets loosely stitched together by George Burns' voiceover.  Other than that, it's just the Beatles' songs, or versions of them that run the spectrum from mediocre to dismal.  I guess the lack of dialog saves Peter Frampton from further embarrassment.   The Bee Gees fare slightly better in their featured numbers.  George Martin arranged and produced the soundtrack with lots of 70s synthesizers and questionable taste.

The best part of the movie is Donald Pleasence's hairpiece.

ETA:  the second best part is the closing number, mostly because it meant the movie was almost over but also because the filmmakers tried to duplicate the album cover.  But instead of Poe, Marx and WC Fields, movie audiences got to see an odd assortment of 70s celebrities including Helen Reddy, Sha Na Na, Wolfman Jack and Dr John.

 

[timschochet]

Speaking of the album cover, I read in a book about Ali that the record company wanted him on the cover but that the Beatles wanted Sonny Liston instead; they had famously met Cassius Clay for a photo shoot the first time they came to America and didn’t like him; they preferred Liston. 

It was not reciprocated. Sonny Liston was a hard jazz fan and when his manager put the Beatles on he called them garbage and refused to meet with them. Nonetheless, he is on that album cover. 

 

[Leroy Hoard]

The Sgt. Pepper movie deserves a post.  There are some cheesy movies that fall into the "so bad it's good" category but Sgt. Pepper really is as bad as its reputation. 

The trailer provides hints about what made it fail:  poor casting, lame musical numbers, poorly executed slapstick but 3 1/2 minutes of clips doesn't show how slowly it was paced.  There is very little plot to speak of, which gets loosely stitched together by George Burns' voiceover.  Other than that, it's just the Beatles' songs, or versions of them that run the spectrum from mediocre to dismal.  I guess the lack of dialog saves Peter Frampton from further embarrassment.   The Bee Gees fare slightly better in their featured numbers.  George Martin arranged and produced the soundtrack with lots of 70s synthesizers and questionable taste.

The best part of the movie is Donald Pleasence's hairpiece.

ETA:  the second best part is the closing number, mostly because it meant the movie was almost over but also because the filmmakers tried to duplicate the album cover.  But instead of Poe, Marx and WC Fields, movie audiences got to see an odd assortment of 70s celebrities including Helen Reddy, Sha Na Na, Wolfman Jack and Dr John.

This really made the movie Tommy look like a work of art.

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

The Sgt. Pepper movie deserves a post.  There are some cheesy movies that fall into the "so bad it's good" category but Sgt. Pepper really is as bad as its reputation. 

The trailer provides hints about what made it fail:  poor casting, lame musical numbers, poorly executed slapstick but 3 1/2 minutes of clips doesn't show how slowly it was paced.  There is very little plot to speak of, which gets loosely stitched together by George Burns' voiceover.  Other than that, it's just the Beatles' songs, or versions of them that run the spectrum from mediocre to dismal.  I guess the lack of dialog saves Peter Frampton from further embarrassment.   The Bee Gees fare slightly better in their featured numbers.  George Martin arranged and produced the soundtrack with lots of 70s synthesizers and questionable taste.

The best part of the movie is Donald Pleasence's hairpiece.

ETA:  the second best part is the closing number, mostly because it meant the movie was almost over but also because the filmmakers tried to duplicate the album cover.  But instead of Poe, Marx and WC Fields, movie audiences got to see an odd assortment of 70s celebrities including Helen Reddy, Sha Na Na, Wolfman Jack and Dr John.

I learned of this movie’s existence when a local TV station ran an ad for a future airing of it.  Being a big fan of the album, I set the VCR, recorded it, and was excited to play it back.  

I should have known it was a dud when my dad passed on watching it with me.  

He popped in about halfway through and observed for a scene or two.  I don’t remember his exact words, but he implied previous viewings of the movie were not sober, and the quality of the movie dropped considerably without performance-enhancing drugs.

 

[Eephus]

I learned of this movie’s existence when a local TV station ran an ad for a future airing of it.  Being a big fan of the album, I set the VCR, recorded it, and was excited to play it back.  

I should have known it was a dud when my dad passed on watching it with me.  

He popped in about halfway through and observed for a scene or two.  I don’t remember his exact words, but he implied previous viewings of the movie were not sober, and the quality of the movie dropped considerably without performance-enhancing drugs.

The first time I read this post I thought your dad died while watching it

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

The first time I read this post I thought your dad died while watching it

Oh ####.  Am I not doing phrasing anymore?

 

[Eephus]

Speaking of the album cover, I read in a book about Ali that the record company wanted him on the cover but that the Beatles wanted Sonny Liston instead; they had famously met Cassius Clay for a photo shoot the first time they came to America and didn’t like him; they preferred Liston. 

It was not reciprocated. Sonny Liston was a hard jazz fan and when his manager put the Beatles on he called them garbage and refused to meet with them. Nonetheless, he is on that album cover. 

Liston used to train to Jimmy Forrest's recording of "Night Train"

 

[Ilov80s]

This was my gateway to The Beatles. Genius in it's level of pop and art achievement. 

 

[Ghost Rider]

Sgt. Pepper is quite obviously pure greatness and a major classic.  I prefer Abbey Road and possibly Revolver, but Sgt. Pepper was my introduction to not just the Beatles, but to music. I was like 6 or 7 when my dad played it for me and I couldn't get over how cool the album cover was, as well as the back of the album with the lyrics and the four Beatles. 

 

[timschochet]

Because this album is so iconic I will leave it up one more night. 

 

[shuke]

The entire album is obviously about Paul’s death and the Beatles somehow fooling the entire world with a lookalike.  A talented lookalike but a lookalike nonetheless.  

 

[Apple Jack]

Speaking of the album cover, I read in a book about Ali that the record company wanted him on the cover but that the Beatles wanted Sonny Liston instead; they had famously met Cassius Clay for a photo shoot the first time they came to America and didn’t like him; they preferred Liston. 

Some like KK Downing more than Glenn Tipton.

 

[DocHolliday]

Because this album is so iconic I will leave it up one more night. 

I grew up with the early Beatles and Stones albums.  Mom played those early records constantly in our house.  She was one of the many teenage girls in the mid-60s that was crazy about the Beatles.  I remember when she told me that she went to an airport just to see the Beatles in person.  To this day, I cannot picture mom acting like that.  Anyhow, Mom didn't like the Beatles once they left their bowl haircuts and happy singy songs.  So, I found Sgt Peppers as a teen and kept adding Beatles albums.  Mom still complains that she misses the old Beatles when she hears the later Beatles.   

Sgt Pepper is probably not my favorite Beatles album but it is a favorite.   It is timeless and I still listen to it at least once a month.   A Day in the Life is one of the best Beatles songs and the rest of the album is absolutely fantastic.  I have always really liked Shes Leaving Home.  Has a different feel than most Beatles songs. 

 

[zamboni]

I grew up with the early Beatles and Stones albums.  Mom played those early records constantly in our house.  She was one of the many teenage girls in the mid-60s that was crazy about the Beatles.  I remember when she told me that she went to an airport just to see the Beatles in person.  To this day, I cannot picture mom acting like that.  Anyhow, Mom didn't like the Beatles once they left their bowl haircuts and happy singy songs.  So, I found Sgt Peppers as a teen and kept adding Beatles albums.  Mom still complains that she misses the old Beatles when she hears the later Beatles.   

Our parents had it good. My mom went to this show and my in-laws were at the famous Shea Stadium concert.

 

[Zegras11]

Our parents had it good. My mom went to this show and my in-laws were at the famous Shea Stadium concert.

Love these old videos.

 

[timschochet]

The Ramones (1976)

Blitzkrieg Bop

Beat on the Brat

Judy Is a Punk

I Wanna Be Your Boyfriend

Chain Saw

Now I Wanna Sniff Some Glue

I Don't Wanna Go Down to the Basement

Loudmouth

Havana Affair

Listen to My Heart

53rd & 3rd

Let's Dance

I Don't Wanna Walk Around With You

Today Your Love, Tomorrow the World

Hey Ho, Let's go!

I actually saw this band live in 1988, at a punk rock club called Fenders in downtown Long Beach. It was a Saturday night and they didn't come on until Midnight, after 3 other bands (including my local favorites The Dickies) and I was completely ####ed up at that point. But I remember that Joey shouted "1234!!" into the microphone before every song, each of which was 2 minutes and barely recognizable. And damn loud. Other than that, they didn't talk.

 

[worrierking]

Love The Ramones. They were true originals.  Can you imagine someone coming out with songs titled "Beat on the Brat" or "Pinhead" nowadays? 

 

[Uruk-Hai]

Back then, I thought The Ramones were a joke/satire band like Sha Na Na. Part of me still does, but the larger part of me also thinks they just wanted to be a Beach Boys/Chiffons mash-up and lacked the talent.

More important than good.

 

[krista4]

If you put the Ramones right after the Beatles because of the Paul Ramon thing, then bravo.  And, of course, Marky Ramone took up the drums because he wanted to be Ringo.

Love the Ramones.  Love that they were trying to be the Bay City Rollers, but they came out with this unique sound instead.  Maybe not the most natural talent, but just a great band.

 

[worrierking]

If you put the Ramones right after the Beatles because of the Paul Ramon thing, then bravo.  

Nice catch!

 

[zamboni]

Love The Ramones. They were true originals.  Can you imagine someone coming out with songs titled "Beat on the Brat" or "Pinhead" nowadays? 

Was never a big fan of the Ramones, but I do appreciate their homage to the old horror flick “Freaks”, replete with their “Gabba Gabba Hey” motto.

https://youtu.be/9C4uTEEOJlM

 

[Franknbeans]

Too Tough to Die is an underrated album.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Loved the stripped down production on those first 3 albums. Johnny's guitar had an awesome buzzsaw tone.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

If you put the Ramones right after the Beatles because of the Paul Ramon thing, then bravo.  And, of course, Marky Ramone took up the drums because he wanted to be Ringo.

Love the Ramones.  Love that they were trying to be the Bay City Rollers, but they came out with this unique sound instead.  Maybe not the most natural talent, but just a great band.

A lot of influences like BCR, 60s girl groups produced by Phil spector, and I remember them also wanting to be the next KISS.

 

[rockaction]

Wow. Queens might have meant as much to royalty as pop culture owes to the Ramones. A staple everywhere. They were Tommy Roe meets proto-punk. Just ubiquitous, and for a reason. They were a pop band, through and through, with a twisted sense of logic and humor to do it with irony that ruled the day and rendered them impenetrable, just like the crest on their chest, replete with arrows in reserve. 

1-2-3-4

R-A-M-O-N-E-S. 

 

[Eephus]

The Ramones established the beachhead for punk in this country.  Carter-era America wasn't ready for the nihilism of the Sex Pistols or the stridency of the Clash. The Ramones were a more friendly face; they threw elements of the 50s, 60s and 70s into the trash compactor and wrapped the output in black leather.  It was totally derivative but also utterly original and more fun than a barrel of monkeys.

My favorite is Rocket to Russia because it's where I jumped on the bandwagon but the debut and Leave Home are equally great.  In a world that was more just, they would have had smash singles but they pressed on through a lot of adversity, many drummers and few compromises.

If you're ever in LA, Dee Dee's grave and Johnny's memorial statue are in the same section of Hollywood Forever cemetery.  It's located near the old Paramount lot about a mile and a half south of Hollywood & Vine.  It's free, has parking and is a nice peaceful spot to spend an hour or so.  They have concerts on the grounds during the summer but we've never timed our visits right.

 

[HellToupee]

If you're ever in LA, Dee Dee's grave and Johnny's memorial statue are in the same section of Hollywood Forever cemetery.  It's located near the old Paramount lot about a mile and a half south of Hollywood & Vine.  It's free, has parking and is a nice peaceful spot to spend an hour or so.  They have concerts on the grounds during the summer but we've never timed our visits right.

My wife has been talking about visiting CA/LA and I mentioned I want to go to this cemetery 

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Speaking of the album cover, I read in a book about Ali that the record company wanted him on the cover but that the Beatles wanted Sonny Liston instead; they had famously met Cassius Clay for a photo shoot the first time they came to America and didn’t like him; they preferred Liston. 

It was not reciprocated. Sonny Liston was a hard jazz fan and when his manager put the Beatles on he called them garbage and refused to meet with them. Nonetheless, he is on that album cover. 

Liston a) doesn't get his due, b) led an incredibly tragic and sad life, and c) in this case, was absolutely correct.