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Classic Album Discussion Thread: The Kinks-Lola Versus Powerman and the Moneygoround, Pt. 1 (1 Viewer)

Tori Amos is an artist who will tell you that her career was heavily influenced by Tapestry (though I think maybe in her case Kate Bush played a role as well.) 

Other more modern performers who cite Carole King include Sara Bareiles and Adele, both of whom are very talented songwriters IMO. 

 
As I recall it, when Tapestry reached 100 consecutive weeks on the Billboard charts (on its way to 318 weeks, topped by Adele's 21), they ran a full-page picture of just a cake ...everyone knew what it represented.  

 
This was the first album I ever bought - age 12.  I was getting into Hendrix, Deep Purple, etc. but was listening to a lot more of the Carole King, James Taylor, Rod Stewart, Cat Stevens back then.  Still a great album.  

 
I think Tapestry sold something like 10 million copies its first year and was #1 for like 4 months. As triman says above, it stayed on the charts for 6 years.

Last I saw, it had sold well north of 20 million.

 
Carole King (and Neil Diamond) straddled the line between the Brill Building song factory of the 60s and the Laurel Canyon singer/songwriters of the 70s. 

The 1996 movie "Grace of my Heart" was a dramatization of an artist with many similarities with King's career.  One of the pivotal songs from the movie was "God Give Me Strength" was written in real life by Burt Bacharach and Elvis Costello.  Which brings it back around to this picture posted on Carole King's Twitter feed earlier in the week.  Assuming it's a recent picture, it's the first picture I've seen of Costello since his recent cancer diagnosis.

 
I've expressed my utmost praise for Carole King and this album in past threads. Just exquisite stuff. All great songs, but I can never get tired of her singing "So Far Away".

I'm not a big Broadway guy, but when I saw the musical Beautiful a few years ago, the scene where Jessie Mueller (as Carole) sang "Will You Still Love Me Tomorrow?" is still resonates with me. 

 
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timschochet said:
Tori Amos is an artist who will tell you that her career was heavily influenced by Tapestry (though I think maybe in her case Kate Bush played a role as well.) 

Other more modern performers who cite Carole King include Sara Bareiles and Adele, both of whom are very talented songwriters IMO. 
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I owned Tapestry and it got a lot of play when I was younger and in the mood for it. Haven't listened to it in decades though and don't expect to listen to it again. Was a great album though.

Since you mentioned them, I used to listen to Tori Amos quite a bit when I met my wife. Seen her in concert twice and own a few of her discs. Also have listened to some Kate Bush, own a few discs, though never got into her like Tori Amos.

 
It reminds me of being a kid with only an AM radio. Surprised how many songs I recognize. Still good and fits right in with what we listen to out in our yard. Great voice.

 
Uruk-Hai said:
I think Tapestry sold something like 10 million copies its first year and was #1 for like 4 months. As triman says above, it stayed on the charts for 6 years.

Last I saw, it had sold well north of 20 million.
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I myself always wondered what became of that cat.

 
Michael Jackson- Thriller 1982

Wanna Be Startin' Something

Baby Be Mine

This Girl Is Mine

Thriller

Beat It

Billie Jean

Human Nature

P.Y.T. (Pretty Young Thing)

The Lady In My Life

This is the best selling album of all time, so love it or hate it, I certainly believe it requires our discussion.  As a fan of new wave and hard rock in my junior year of high school, I didn't think much of it. And you could not get away from the songs- they were everywhere, even more popular than Saturday Night Fever had been only a few years earlier. The video Thriller was exciting to watch when it first came on, but at one point MTV was showing it twice per hour, (equal to one third of all programming!) The jokes that followed- the parodies, the weirdness that Michael Jackson became- I was unable to disconnect that from the music.

Then, years later, I had an epiphany. For me it began right outside the Bellagio hotel in Las Vegas- they were having their nightime fountain and lights show (can't really describe this unless you've seen it but it's spectacular) and they used "Billie Jean" as their soundtrack. As the extremely familiar music came blasting out of the speakers, I listened to it, really listened to it for maybe the first time in my life- without all of the associations my mind always made. And I said to myself, "you know, this is really good. It's never going to be my style of music but it's really well done." Which had probably been obvious to anyone but me for decades, right?

Anyway, after that I listened to the album. IMO, there is more "filler" than on other "great" albums I might compare it to, such as Rumours or Tapestry- specifically "Baby Be Mine", "The Lady In My Life", and the completely execrable "This Girl is Mine" which is certainly a candidate IMO for the worst Billboard #1 song ever. But the rest of the album is classic. Obviously, having Eddie Van Halen as a guitarist on "Beat It" helps that song (outside of Eddie Clapton on "While My Guitar Gently Weeps", maybe the most significant guest lead guitar in music history?) My favorite might be "Human Nature", with it's lush melody. 

 
Not to cop the "you had to be there" tune, but in the case of Thriller, you really had to be there to understand how big it was. 

I am not a fan of all of the songs here, but the big hits are all major winners.  Billie Jean is still as great now as it was in 1982. 

Also, EVH plays the guitar solo in Beat It, not the lead guitar.  

 
I was there for the takeover too. I had just started high school and was mostly classic rock/metal guy but was just getting into Prince thanks to my girlfriend at the time. Never bought this album but pretty sure everyone I knew did as it was playing everywhere I went. Beat It is pretty good and do love Billie Jean but don't need to hear anything else from this album ever again, especially The Girl is Mine as mentioned earlier.

 
Thriller is a classic but Off the Wall is a better album.  Thriller has a couple of weak cuts at the end of the first side that ruin the flow for me.  Off the Wall was recorded a few years earlier and has a more organic sound with fewer synths and drum machine tracks.  MJ's vocals are also more natural with less of the whoops and hiccups that became his signature style in later years.

Side 1 of Off the Wall is one of the greatest dance album sides of all time.  If you're ever DJ'ing a party where folks are dancing and want to mingle for a half hour, spin Off the Wall and you're good until the end of the title track.

Both albums still sound terrific today.  Quincy Jones has some of the greatest ears God ever handed out.  The sound just jumps out of the speakers.

 
Eephus said:
Thriller is a classic but Off the Wall is a better album.  Thriller has a couple of weak cuts at the end of the first side that ruin the flow for me.  Off the Wall was recorded a few years earlier and has a more organic sound with fewer synths and drum machine tracks.  MJ's vocals are also more natural with less of the whoops and hiccups that became his signature style in later years.

Side 1 of Off the Wall is one of the greatest dance album sides of all time.  If you're ever DJ'ing a party where folks are dancing and want to mingle for a half hour, spin Off the Wall and you're good until the end of the title track.

Both albums still sound terrific today.  Quincy Jones has some of the greatest ears God ever handed out.  The sound just jumps out of the speakers.
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Was coming in here to post that Off the Wall was the better album but you beat me to it.

Specific to Thriller, am I crazy or did PYT only become a hit years after the album first came out?

 
Ghost Rider said:
JuniorGong said:
Specific to Thriller, am I crazy or did PYT only become a hit years after the album first came out?
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Nah, it was during the initial run, although I think it was one of the last singles from the album, and it didn't have a video.
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CBS milked Thriller for singles.  You can't blame them because Jackson was so huge at the time.   The singles off the album flowed directly to "Say Say Say" and The Jacksons "Victory" album and tour.  The latter was Michael's biggest gift to his brothers before going solo for good.

 
I really can’t be alone here, can I?.......

in this #metoo era, why are we still glorifying Michael Jackson? Does the fact that he’s thankfully a corpse somehow absolve him of his reputation? 

 
Epic Problem said:
I really can’t be alone here, can I?.......

in this #metoo era, why are we still glorifying Michael Jackson? Does the fact that he’s thankfully a corpse somehow absolve him of his reputation? 
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I think most fans give him the benefit of the doubt. He was never convicted of a crime, and the one kid who accused him in 1993 was pressured into it by his father who was caught on tape basically admitting to extortion.

 
Ghost Rider said:
JuniorGong said:
Specific to Thriller, am I crazy or did PYT only become a hit years after the album first came out?
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Nah, it was during the initial run, although I think it was one of the last singles from the album, and it didn't have a video. 
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BTW, "P.Y.T." was originally the title of a completely different song that Jackson had written around 1981. Quincy Jones didn't care for the song but he liked the title, so he asked Jackson to write a brand new song around the title.

Here is the original "P.Y.T."

 
IMO "Billie Jean" is one of the best pop songs ever written. All that said, I think Thriller is one of those albums where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. As others have said, there are a few weak cuts on it that detracts a bit, and I also agree that Off The Wall is better. 

 
I was 16 when it came out, and in my rock/metal circle, it wasn't "cool" to like MJ or that album (despite EVH playing on Beat It). Then a year or two later, at a friend's house, the topic of Thriller came up, and my friend's older brother - maybe 10 years older than us and not as affected by peer-pressure or whatnot - said to us "you guys know it's good, but you just won't admit it". That really stuck with me, because he was right. I lost a lot of music pretentiousness that day. 

 
Thriller was really when Michael Jackson took off like no other pop star had (I'd say including The Beatles) and I'd venture to say no one (or group) since.  When he introduced the moonwalk, it really set the world on fire. 

But more than that, while I think it's a valid debate as to which album is better (Off The Wall v Thriller)...the key medium that distinguished the two that made one a global sensation and the other simply a really great record was MTV.  Beat It, Billie Jean and then ultimately Thriller all had accompanying videos that to this day (for at least my generation) I still remember.  So at the time - to put visuals to audio...it was game-changing.

 
TheDirtyWord said:
Thriller was really when Michael Jackson took off like no other pop star had (I'd say including The Beatles) and I'd venture to say no one (or group) since.  When he introduced the moonwalk, it really set the world on fire. 

But more than that, while I think it's a valid debate as to which album is better (Off The Wall v Thriller)...the key medium that distinguished the two that made one a global sensation and the other simply a really great record was MTV.  Beat It, Billie Jean and then ultimately Thriller all had accompanying videos that to this day (for at least my generation) I still remember.  So at the time - to put visuals to audio...it was game-changing.
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It was pretty amazing how influential MTV was to the music scene during it's heyday. It made so many artists, that we may not have ever heard of. Obviously Michael Jackson was already a big star, but it did make him a Super Star. For that time period most people of a certain age will identify the music video with the song - they went hand in hand.

 
Thriller was just filler, for me.  None of the songs spoke to me or effected me in the least.  That said they were catchy if inconsequential ditties.  Toe tappers for the club scene crowd, a crowd of which I was not a part.  Nice songs for the MTA generation, a generation I did not really join.  When one comes on now in my vicinity I'm happy to hear it, but I would never seek it out.  That's the beauty of music, something for everyone but not everything for everyone.  Would we really have it any other way?

 
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When my friend asked me about the greatest album I'd ever heard, I said, "I don't know. Thirlller." He was stunned, given my proclivities. It's that good of an album. And all this talk of filler, there's none of it. It charted about seven songs in the top ten. Just a legendary masterpiece. 

And, yes, Epic Problem, I have a problem with Michael's Neverland fetish. I don't think you're the only one.  

 
Certainly one of the albums that you need to listen to if you are interested in music.  His talent was truly amazing.  Such a Shakespearian figure.  

Having said all of that - I appreciate Michael Jackson, and everything about this album.  But it was never on my must listen list.  Won't turn any part of it off though.  Just don't go out of my way to ever listen to it as I would some others.

 
Used to DJ parties when in college and the MJ/Jackson 5 medley was always a floor filler for sure. +1 on that Off The Wall was a better album, but the long fought for access to MTV for "Billie Jean" was the escalator on this one. Short version for those not familiar was that MTV was not playing black artists and even balked at "Billie Jean" until CBS said they would pull all videos for their artists from MTV if not played. Seismic shift in exposure for MJ, Prince, and leading to the introduction of rap videos on the channel.

 
Big Blue Wrecking Crew said:
Used to DJ parties when in college and the MJ/Jackson 5 medley was always a floor filler for sure. +1 on that Off The Wall was a better album, but the long fought for access to MTV for "Billie Jean" was the escalator on this one. Short version for those not familiar was that MTV was not playing black artists and even balked at "Billie Jean" until CBS said they would pull all videos for their artists from MTV if not played. Seismic shift in exposure for MJ, Prince, and leading to the introduction of rap videos on the channel.
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Then MTV had the gonads to brag about breaking the color barrier - the barrier THEY had up.

 
Big Blue Wrecking Crew said:
Used to DJ parties when in college and the MJ/Jackson 5 medley was always a floor filler for sure. +1 on that Off The Wall was a better album, but the long fought for access to MTV for "Billie Jean" was the escalator on this one. Short version for those not familiar was that MTV was not playing black artists and even balked at "Billie Jean" until CBS said they would pull all videos for their artists from MTV if not played. Seismic shift in exposure for MJ, Prince, and leading to the introduction of rap videos on the channel.
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iirc, David Bowie had a hand in bringing attention to this.

 
Jackson's scandals would have played out differently in 2018 than they did in 1993.  His late career would have been affected more than it was at the time.

My current stance is that I'm able to mentally separate an artist and his art, particularly for historical work.  I'm not about to reassess everything that I've enjoyed in the past based on what we now know about the creators misdeeds.  I realize this is a moral fine line and my position could evolve over time.  If I stop listening Jackson or watching Woody Allen movies or reading Hemingway, what does that accomplish?

MJ was a profoundly strange man who was victimized by Joe Jackson and probably abused others.   My perception of him changed in the early 90s and I wouldn't have allowed my kids to go to Neverland.  It's a coincidence that his music pretty much sucked after "Dangerous" in 1991.

 
And speaking of "Dangerous", it's a really incredible album.

At 77 minutes, it suffers big time from CD bloat.  There are some mawkish slow songs on side 2 that should have been put on a separate album.  Even some of the bangers go on for 60-90 seconds too long.  But the New Jack Swing and Hip Hop influenced stuff is as good in its own way as "Thriller" and "Off the Wall"

I made an edited version of "Dangerous" as a Spotify playlist.   It's cut down from 14 songs and 77 minutes to 9 tracks and 42 minutes.  I've substituted single edits where available and re-sequenced the songs for flow.

 
Led Zeppelin- Led Zeppelin IV (1971) 

Black Dog

Rock and Roll

The Battle Of Evermore

Stairway to Heaven

Misty Mountain Hop 

Four Sticks

Going to California 

When the Levee Breaks

My original plan was to wait a long time before choosing a second album from the same artist. But last night I put on an old playlist and Levee came on; I listened to those pounding drums and thought what the hell? 

When the Levee Breaks is for me the best song on the album, and the best song by LZ period. There I said it. Going to California is my second favorite on the album, my favorite acoustic effort by this band. Evermore introduces me to Sandy Denny and then Fairport Convention so I’m grateful. Rock and Roll is the ultimate in rockabilly which must make Brian Setzer green with envy. Stairway is the most overplayed song in rock history and I still love it. 

Led Zeppelin IV everybody. 

 
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