What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

Cleveland Browns (14 Viewers)

Congrats...

If I'm a CLE fan, I'm happy b/c in the end I have a team with talent and cap space / picks and a HC that I think is going to be real good...

Like my Jets, sometimes you need to tune out the media and all the drama... Bottom line is TALENT and CLE has it and an opportunity to add more. Don't even waste time with the soap opera BS.....

 
Reaper said:
Congrats...

If I'm a CLE fan, I'm happy b/c in the end I have a team with talent and cap space / picks and a HC that I think is going to be real good...

Like my Jets, sometimes you need to tune out the media and all the drama... Bottom line is TALENT and CLE has it and an opportunity to add more. Don't even waste time with the soap opera BS.....
Click to expand...
Uhh...we fired Chud after one year for a 'proven winner.' Jimmy and Joe's words, not mine. 3 weeks later while others are getting ahead of us with their staff in place we have our eyes set on a defensive coordinator for teams that have sucked 3 years in a row and hasn't been a head coach above the high school level - 13 years ago...with no supporting staff in place.

Talent doesn't mean #### with poor leadership and we're probably going to lose two of our pro bowlers anyway. Pieces are there for a good coaching staff to be successful from a talent perspective if we get the QB figured out, but there is zero reason to believe the coaching staff being put in place is any good. Can't blame coaches for running away from the Jimmy and Joe show, I hoped I was wrong post Chud firing about how candidates would view this job, but - here we are.

 
MAC_32 said:
Reaper said:
Congrats...

If I'm a CLE fan, I'm happy b/c in the end I have a team with talent and cap space / picks and a HC that I think is going to be real good...

Like my Jets, sometimes you need to tune out the media and all the drama... Bottom line is TALENT and CLE has it and an opportunity to add more. Don't even waste time with the soap opera BS.....
Click to expand...
Uhh...we fired Chud after one year for a 'proven winner.' Jimmy and Joe's words, not mine. 3 weeks later while others are getting ahead of us with their staff in place we have our eyes set on a defensive coordinator for teams that have sucked 3 years in a row and hasn't been a head coach above the high school level - 13 years ago...with no supporting staff in place.

Talent doesn't mean #### with poor leadership and we're probably going to lose two of our pro bowlers anyway. Pieces are there for a good coaching staff to be successful from a talent perspective if we get the QB figured out, but there is zero reason to believe the coaching staff being put in place is any good. Can't blame coaches for running away from the Jimmy and Joe show, I hoped I was wrong post Chud firing about how candidates would view this job, but - here we are.
Click to expand...
Little overboard on the Sucking teams part - We all know Buffalo finally started to look good on Defense with Pettine and Buffalo is crying right now... We also know the Jets sucked because of Sanchez / Offense and certainly not the D... Even when Revis went down, they held it together....

To me, Talent makes coaches.

That's why everyone associated with INDY / Peyton looked so smart... that's why Bellichik was a mumbling idiot 10 years past his 1st HC gig and another mediocre season away from another Hot Seat Before................. Brady.

But, I'm buying on Cleveland....

 
Burge said this AM on K&B that Lombardi was devastated about McDaniels. Would love to know how that all really went down.

 
MAC_32 said:
Reaper said:
To me, Talent makes coaches.
Click to expand...
It goes both ways. Coaches need talent and QB stability to be successful, but if you give poor coaches loads of talent they won't fulfill their potential.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I tend to believe overwhelming talent floats Coaches to the top a ton more than Bad coaches sink talent....

IMO a lot of these guys can "Coach".... And With Pettine, you're not getting a Herm Edwards type who fell into coaching after following a path from player to "next Career" - You're getting a guy who lives eats and breathes football his entire Life....so, to me the risk of "poor" coach is lower.

CLE needs to get an OC and pick a QB and all else follows from there. The QB is going to make or break this team a lot more than Pettine IMO and they're staring at a lot of great QB possibilities... Again as a fan of another team without a ton of success, I'd be pretty happy right now based on opportunities and I'd let the HC search Drama / Wasted energy pass on by.

 
Why were they interviewing Schiano? What was said during that interview?

"We feel your brand of losing would really fit well here in Cleveland."

 
Last edited by a moderator:
So the mystery candidate is not Schiano? At least according to the Big Show and Grossi (who says that is confirmed).

 
Bobcat10 said:
Burge said this AM on K&B that Lombardi was devastated about McDaniels. Would love to know how that all really went down.
Click to expand...
McDaniels is no idiot… he realizes he's probably got one more shot at a HC gig. While I know a lot of homers in here see the Browns as a great situation with a lot of talent and high draft picks to acquire more, they've displayed an alarming level of dysfunction in the front office to date.

My guess is McDaniels, after witnessing how everything played out with Chud and the subsequent coaching search, simply said no thanks. My guess is he's a HC again in this league, and could be pretty successful. But he's got to carefully choose his next gig if he really wants to be a long-term HC in the NFL.

 
To clarify some things: The presser by Haslam never said proven winner and I guess people took what Burge said and mis-reported his words. He did not say Pettine would 'definitely' be hired today but he did say that negotiations would take place.

Daryl Ruiter‏@RuiterWrongFAN25 mins

FYI, I just checked the transcript from #Browns 12/30/13 presser - words "proven winner" were never spoken... "strong winner" said by Haslam

Will Burge‏@WillBurge34 mins

Not sure where ppl are getting I said the hiring would def happen today. I reported hes the guy & they're negotiating today. Read the tweets

Will Burge‏@WillBurge37 mins

@SteveSampson23 never said today. Said they were negotiating today. But yes I tweeted he's the guy and should be held to it

----------------------------------------------

Mary Kay Cabot just did a podcast but even though the healine teases that their might be another candidate in play she holds to her previous stance that McDaniels doesn't plan on making any moves right now. She says that the thing that pushed Chud over the top last year was his ability to bring Norv Turner as his OC.

----------------------------------------------

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/01/mary_kay_cabot_on_the_mike_pet.html

Mary Kay Cabot on the Mike Pettine rumors; could another candidate still be in play?

---------------------------------------------

Not sure what is being hinted at here but a flight from Atlanta was cancled so I take that to mean the Atlanta OC is out of the picture which means it would be down to Pettine.

----------------------------------------------

Daryl Ruiter‏@RuiterWrongFAN16 mins

FYI checked flight boards at Hopkins and Delta flight 1474 from Atlanta scheduled to touch down in Cleveland at 12:33 has been cancelled

 
Reaper said:
MAC_32 said:
Reaper said:
Congrats...

If I'm a CLE fan, I'm happy b/c in the end I have a team with talent and cap space / picks and a HC that I think is going to be real good...

Like my Jets, sometimes you need to tune out the media and all the drama... Bottom line is TALENT and CLE has it and an opportunity to add more. Don't even waste time with the soap opera BS.....
Click to expand...
Uhh...we fired Chud after one year for a 'proven winner.' Jimmy and Joe's words, not mine. 3 weeks later while others are getting ahead of us with their staff in place we have our eyes set on a defensive coordinator for teams that have sucked 3 years in a row and hasn't been a head coach above the high school level - 13 years ago...with no supporting staff in place.Talent doesn't mean #### with poor leadership and we're probably going to lose two of our pro bowlers anyway. Pieces are there for a good coaching staff to be successful from a talent perspective if we get the QB figured out, but there is zero reason to believe the coaching staff being put in place is any good. Can't blame coaches for running away from the Jimmy and Joe show, I hoped I was wrong post Chud firing about how candidates would view this job, but - here we are.
Click to expand...
Little overboard on the Sucking teams part - We all know Buffalo finally started to look good on Defense with Pettine and Buffalo is crying right now... We also know the Jets sucked because of Sanchez / Offense and certainly not the D... Even when Revis went down, they held it together....

To me, Talent makes coaches.

That's why everyone associated with INDY / Peyton looked so smart... that's why Bellichik was a mumbling idiot 10 years past his 1st HC gig and another mediocre season away from another Hot Seat Before................. Brady.

But, I'm buying on Cleveland....
Click to expand...
I think the Jets had top 10 defenses in 2011-2012 (actually since 2009, and may have been #1 in some categories in 2009).

 
Reaper said:
IMO a lot of these guys can "Coach".... And With Pettine, you're not getting a Herm Edwards type who fell into coaching after following a path from player to "next Career" - You're getting a guy who lives eats and breathes football his entire Life....so, to me the risk of "poor" coach is lower.
Click to expand...
I guess you and I disagree about what makes a good coach. It's totally different than being a coordinator or position coach. Position coach's are specialists, coordinator is the natural progression - implementing a design component. Coaching is about management...leadership...the day to day stuff and development is handled by others. Eating, sleeping, and breathing football does not necessarily make a good coach, it's the foundation but it's useless if the guy can't lead. Jimmy and Joe want a puppet, can this guy be an effective leader while also keeping his control freak bosses happy? can he find a support staff at this point in the game to help this team achieve their full potential? He gets more rope to work with if they find the QB, but as last year showed these guys won't accept losing so if the QB isn't found this year, then what?

 
Bob Magaw said:
Reaper said:
MAC_32 said:
Reaper said:
Congrats...

If I'm a CLE fan, I'm happy b/c in the end I have a team with talent and cap space / picks and a HC that I think is going to be real good...

Like my Jets, sometimes you need to tune out the media and all the drama... Bottom line is TALENT and CLE has it and an opportunity to add more. Don't even waste time with the soap opera BS.....
Click to expand...
Uhh...we fired Chud after one year for a 'proven winner.' Jimmy and Joe's words, not mine. 3 weeks later while others are getting ahead of us with their staff in place we have our eyes set on a defensive coordinator for teams that have sucked 3 years in a row and hasn't been a head coach above the high school level - 13 years ago...with no supporting staff in place.Talent doesn't mean #### with poor leadership and we're probably going to lose two of our pro bowlers anyway. Pieces are there for a good coaching staff to be successful from a talent perspective if we get the QB figured out, but there is zero reason to believe the coaching staff being put in place is any good. Can't blame coaches for running away from the Jimmy and Joe show, I hoped I was wrong post Chud firing about how candidates would view this job, but - here we are.
Click to expand...
Little overboard on the Sucking teams part - We all know Buffalo finally started to look good on Defense with Pettine and Buffalo is crying right now... We also know the Jets sucked because of Sanchez / Offense and certainly not the D... Even when Revis went down, they held it together....

To me, Talent makes coaches.

That's why everyone associated with INDY / Peyton looked so smart... that's why Bellichik was a mumbling idiot 10 years past his 1st HC gig and another mediocre season away from another Hot Seat Before................. Brady.

But, I'm buying on Cleveland....
Click to expand...
I think the Jets had top 10 defenses in 2011-2012 (actually since 2009, and may have been #1 in some categories in 2009).
Click to expand...
...and how much of that is Ryan? how much Pettine? Ryan couldn't be more hands off with the offense, and it shows, but his hands are all over the defense. Post Revis, they were just as effective without Pettine as they were with him. Is last year in Buffalo a product of Pettine? or the former Bills defensive coaching staff being just that awful?

A lot more questions than answers, which shouldn't be too suprising given his background.

 
GroveDiesel said:
Not that the Browns care, but I'm reading that the Bills are getting really P.O.'d at the Browns for dragging this out. If the Browns hire Pettine, the Bills want to hire a new DC by Monday.

If the Browns don't hire him tomorrow, my guess is he either withdraws his name or the Bills get tired of the whole thing and tell him that he either withdraws his name or they're going to fire him and move on.

My guess is that tomorrow isn't really an interview, it's actually a job offer and negotiation.
Click to expand...
He's not going to withdraw his name, he wants the job, they are negotiating.

And if Buffalo fired him he'd be snatched up in a New York Minute.

The Browns could then turn around and offer McDaniels the moon AND hire Pettine as their DC. :o

But Buffalo isn't going to strong-arm him from his opportunity to be a head coach and it seems like a deal will be announced sometime soon after negotiations have wound down and that could happen soon.

Adam Schefter‏@AdamSchefter21 mins

Browns expected to offer their HC job to Bills DC Mike Pettine, per multiple league sources, via @mortreport and me. Need to work out deal.

 
Not official till ink is on the contract but:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/category/rumor-mill/

Report: Browns expected to offer job to Mike PettinePosted by Michael David Smith on January 23, 2014, 11:29 AM EST

Mike Pettine appears to be the leading candidate to become the next head coach of the Browns.

The Browns are expected to offer the job to Pettine and are working out a deal, according to Adam Schefter ‏and Chris Mortensen of ESPN.

Pettine emerged as the apparent favorite for the Browns’ job opening after other candidates withdrew their names. Most significantly, Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels took his name out of the running during the playoffs and reportedly spurned the Browns again this week when they reached out to him after New England lost the AFC Championship Game.

The 47-year-old Pettine has never been a head coach beyond the high school level, but he did a good job as defensive coordinator of the Bills last year, and as defensive coordinator of the Jets for three years before that. He may be the right man for the job in Cleveland, even though he’ll battle perceptions that he wasn’t the Browns’ first choice.
 
MAC_32 said:
Bob Magaw said:
Reaper said:
MAC_32 said:
Reaper said:
Congrats...

If I'm a CLE fan, I'm happy b/c in the end I have a team with talent and cap space / picks and a HC that I think is going to be real good...

Like my Jets, sometimes you need to tune out the media and all the drama... Bottom line is TALENT and CLE has it and an opportunity to add more. Don't even waste time with the soap opera BS.....
Click to expand...
Uhh...we fired Chud after one year for a 'proven winner.' Jimmy and Joe's words, not mine. 3 weeks later while others are getting ahead of us with their staff in place we have our eyes set on a defensive coordinator for teams that have sucked 3 years in a row and hasn't been a head coach above the high school level - 13 years ago...with no supporting staff in place.Talent doesn't mean #### with poor leadership and we're probably going to lose two of our pro bowlers anyway. Pieces are there for a good coaching staff to be successful from a talent perspective if we get the QB figured out, but there is zero reason to believe the coaching staff being put in place is any good. Can't blame coaches for running away from the Jimmy and Joe show, I hoped I was wrong post Chud firing about how candidates would view this job, but - here we are.
Click to expand...
Little overboard on the Sucking teams part - We all know Buffalo finally started to look good on Defense with Pettine and Buffalo is crying right now... We also know the Jets sucked because of Sanchez / Offense and certainly not the D... Even when Revis went down, they held it together....

To me, Talent makes coaches.

That's why everyone associated with INDY / Peyton looked so smart... that's why Bellichik was a mumbling idiot 10 years past his 1st HC gig and another mediocre season away from another Hot Seat Before................. Brady.

But, I'm buying on Cleveland....
Click to expand...
I think the Jets had top 10 defenses in 2011-2012 (actually since 2009, and may have been #1 in some categories in 2009).
Click to expand...
...and how much of that is Ryan? how much Pettine? Ryan couldn't be more hands off with the offense, and it shows, but his hands are all over the defense. Post Revis, they were just as effective without Pettine as they were with him. Is last year in Buffalo a product of Pettine? or the former Bills defensive coaching staff being just that awful?A lot more questions than answers, which shouldn't be too suprising given his background.
Click to expand...
Fair questions but you are changing targets.The above point was in response to saying he has been a DC on teams that have fared poorly three years in a row.

So it seemed like the point was that how the Jets did OVERALLL, reflected poorly on Pettine (oddly, despite being top ten for nearly a half decade). Now that we are focusing on DEFENSE, all of a sudden Pettine isn't responsible any more?

Heads, the Pettine is a bad candidate position wins. Tails, the Pettine isn't a good candidate position wins.

Huh, looks like you win no matter what! :)

* Guessing Sheldon Richardson helped overcome the loss of Revis. The front office seems to have focused on coordinators (McDaniels, Gase, Quinn, etc.), and your concerns probably are close to universal (perhaps why you would seem to prefer a former HC). With any coordinator, they were working with personnel they didn't choose (in most cases), so it does leave the question how they will do once given more responsibility. CLE hasn't seemed averse to inexperience throughout the process. Gase and Quinn were both in their first year of being a coordinator for DEN and SEA. They must have been sexy in part being on the top two teams in the league.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
JFS171 said:
Bobcat10 said:
Burge said this AM on K&B that Lombardi was devastated about McDaniels. Would love to know how that all really went down.
Click to expand...
McDaniels is no idiot he realizes he's probably got one more shot at a HC gig. While I know a lot of homers in here see the Browns as a great situation with a lot of talent and high draft picks to acquire more, they've displayed an alarming level of dysfunction in the front office to date.

My guess is McDaniels, after witnessing how everything played out with Chud and the subsequent coaching search, simply said no thanks. My guess is he's a HC again in this league, and could be pretty successful. But he's got to carefully choose his next gig if he really wants to be a long-term HC in the NFL.
Click to expand...
If McDaniels has a good relationship with BB and Kraft, I think staying in NE is the best move for him. Is BB going to keep coaching much after Brady retires? I doubt it. And when BB retires, McDaniels would be the #1 candidate to take over.

 
Bob Magaw said:
MAC_32 said:
Bob Magaw said:
Reaper said:
MAC_32 said:
Reaper said:
Congrats...

If I'm a CLE fan, I'm happy b/c in the end I have a team with talent and cap space / picks and a HC that I think is going to be real good...

Like my Jets, sometimes you need to tune out the media and all the drama... Bottom line is TALENT and CLE has it and an opportunity to add more. Don't even waste time with the soap opera BS.....
Click to expand...
Uhh...we fired Chud after one year for a 'proven winner.' Jimmy and Joe's words, not mine. 3 weeks later while others are getting ahead of us with their staff in place we have our eyes set on a defensive coordinator for teams that have sucked 3 years in a row and hasn't been a head coach above the high school level - 13 years ago...with no supporting staff in place.Talent doesn't mean #### with poor leadership and we're probably going to lose two of our pro bowlers anyway. Pieces are there for a good coaching staff to be successful from a talent perspective if we get the QB figured out, but there is zero reason to believe the coaching staff being put in place is any good. Can't blame coaches for running away from the Jimmy and Joe show, I hoped I was wrong post Chud firing about how candidates would view this job, but - here we are.
Click to expand...
Little overboard on the Sucking teams part - We all know Buffalo finally started to look good on Defense with Pettine and Buffalo is crying right now... We also know the Jets sucked because of Sanchez / Offense and certainly not the D... Even when Revis went down, they held it together....

To me, Talent makes coaches.

That's why everyone associated with INDY / Peyton looked so smart... that's why Bellichik was a mumbling idiot 10 years past his 1st HC gig and another mediocre season away from another Hot Seat Before................. Brady.

But, I'm buying on Cleveland....
Click to expand...
I think the Jets had top 10 defenses in 2011-2012 (actually since 2009, and may have been #1 in some categories in 2009).
Click to expand...
...and how much of that is Ryan? how much Pettine? Ryan couldn't be more hands off with the offense, and it shows, but his hands are all over the defense. Post Revis, they were just as effective without Pettine as they were with him. Is last year in Buffalo a product of Pettine? or the former Bills defensive coaching staff being just that awful?A lot more questions than answers, which shouldn't be too suprising given his background.
Click to expand...
Fair questions but you are changing targets.

The above point was in response to saying he has been a DC on teams that have fared poorly three years in a row.

So it seemed like the point was that how the Jets did OVERALLL, reflected poorly on Pettine (oddly, despite being top ten for nearly a half decade). Now that we are focusing on DEFENSE, all of a sudden Pettine isn't responsible any more?

Heads, the Pettine is a bad candidate position wins. Tails, the Pettine isn't a good candidate position wins.

Huh, looks like you win no matter what! :)

* Guessing Sheldon Richardson helped overcome the loss of Revis.
Click to expand...
In the end, what effect has he had on the teams he has coached? They sucked and these guys ventured out into the never to find a 'winner.' This does not fit. It's been 4 years since he has been on a winner. We fired a puppet that ended up not being a puppet to bring in another puppet (they hope, anyway) and start the process all over again with a guy that has proven nothing with limited options to build his support staff.

This franchise is a ####### joke.

 
Bob Magaw said:
MAC_32 said:
Bob Magaw said:
Reaper said:
MAC_32 said:
Reaper said:
Congrats...

If I'm a CLE fan, I'm happy b/c in the end I have a team with talent and cap space / picks and a HC that I think is going to be real good...

Like my Jets, sometimes you need to tune out the media and all the drama... Bottom line is TALENT and CLE has it and an opportunity to add more. Don't even waste time with the soap opera BS.....
Click to expand...
Uhh...we fired Chud after one year for a 'proven winner.' Jimmy and Joe's words, not mine. 3 weeks later while others are getting ahead of us with their staff in place we have our eyes set on a defensive coordinator for teams that have sucked 3 years in a row and hasn't been a head coach above the high school level - 13 years ago...with no supporting staff in place.Talent doesn't mean #### with poor leadership and we're probably going to lose two of our pro bowlers anyway. Pieces are there for a good coaching staff to be successful from a talent perspective if we get the QB figured out, but there is zero reason to believe the coaching staff being put in place is any good. Can't blame coaches for running away from the Jimmy and Joe show, I hoped I was wrong post Chud firing about how candidates would view this job, but - here we are.
Click to expand...
Little overboard on the Sucking teams part - We all know Buffalo finally started to look good on Defense with Pettine and Buffalo is crying right now... We also know the Jets sucked because of Sanchez / Offense and certainly not the D... Even when Revis went down, they held it together....

To me, Talent makes coaches.

That's why everyone associated with INDY / Peyton looked so smart... that's why Bellichik was a mumbling idiot 10 years past his 1st HC gig and another mediocre season away from another Hot Seat Before................. Brady.

But, I'm buying on Cleveland....
Click to expand...
I think the Jets had top 10 defenses in 2011-2012 (actually since 2009, and may have been #1 in some categories in 2009).
Click to expand...
...and how much of that is Ryan? how much Pettine? Ryan couldn't be more hands off with the offense, and it shows, but his hands are all over the defense. Post Revis, they were just as effective without Pettine as they were with him. Is last year in Buffalo a product of Pettine? or the former Bills defensive coaching staff being just that awful?A lot more questions than answers, which shouldn't be too suprising given his background.
Click to expand...
Fair questions but you are changing targets.

The above point was in response to saying he has been a DC on teams that have fared poorly three years in a row.

So it seemed like the point was that how the Jets did OVERALLL, reflected poorly on Pettine (oddly, despite being top ten for nearly a half decade). Now that we are focusing on DEFENSE, all of a sudden Pettine isn't responsible any more?

Heads, the Pettine is a bad candidate position wins. Tails, the Pettine isn't a good candidate position wins.

Huh, looks like you win no matter what! :)

* Guessing Sheldon Richardson helped overcome the loss of Revis.
Click to expand...
They were also pretty effective without Revis the prior year adjusting on the fly........... And that was mostly Pettine.

The Jets beat Buffalo this year when Pettine was without some D weapons... I swear that guy worked his ### off for the 2nd matchup and demolished the Jets with Disguised Blitzes and stuff that took them totally by suprise - IMO Pettine thoroughly outcoached the Jets and many of us were worried about future matchups with that D.... Glad he's gone.

That's all.... Good luck!!!

 
JFS171 said:
Bobcat10 said:
Burge said this AM on K&B that Lombardi was devastated about McDaniels. Would love to know how that all really went down.
Click to expand...
McDaniels is no idiot… he realizes he's probably got one more shot at a HC gig. While I know a lot of homers in here see the Browns as a great situation with a lot of talent and high draft picks to acquire more, they've displayed an alarming level of dysfunction in the front office to date.

My guess is McDaniels, after witnessing how everything played out with Chud and the subsequent coaching search, simply said no thanks. My guess is he's a HC again in this league, and could be pretty successful. But he's got to carefully choose his next gig if he really wants to be a long-term HC in the NFL.
Click to expand...
Sorta agree/disagree. If he wasn't next of kin to an aging BB in NE with an owner that likes him, I think he's the Browns HC right now. Not many HC openings are great situations, that's why there are HC openings. Everyone pretty much agrees there is talent, money and picks here. He has ties to people here and reportedly wowed Haslem. I think what held him back was being in that position in NE, so you are right he's choosing his next job carefully.

 
MAC_32 said:
Bob Magaw said:
MAC_32 said:
Bob Magaw said:
Reaper said:
MAC_32 said:
Reaper said:
Congrats...

If I'm a CLE fan, I'm happy b/c in the end I have a team with talent and cap space / picks and a HC that I think is going to be real good...

Like my Jets, sometimes you need to tune out the media and all the drama... Bottom line is TALENT and CLE has it and an opportunity to add more. Don't even waste time with the soap opera BS.....
Click to expand...
Uhh...we fired Chud after one year for a 'proven winner.' Jimmy and Joe's words, not mine. 3 weeks later while others are getting ahead of us with their staff in place we have our eyes set on a defensive coordinator for teams that have sucked 3 years in a row and hasn't been a head coach above the high school level - 13 years ago...with no supporting staff in place.Talent doesn't mean #### with poor leadership and we're probably going to lose two of our pro bowlers anyway. Pieces are there for a good coaching staff to be successful from a talent perspective if we get the QB figured out, but there is zero reason to believe the coaching staff being put in place is any good. Can't blame coaches for running away from the Jimmy and Joe show, I hoped I was wrong post Chud firing about how candidates would view this job, but - here we are.
Click to expand...
Little overboard on the Sucking teams part - We all know Buffalo finally started to look good on Defense with Pettine and Buffalo is crying right now... We also know the Jets sucked because of Sanchez / Offense and certainly not the D... Even when Revis went down, they held it together....

To me, Talent makes coaches.

That's why everyone associated with INDY / Peyton looked so smart... that's why Bellichik was a mumbling idiot 10 years past his 1st HC gig and another mediocre season away from another Hot Seat Before................. Brady.

But, I'm buying on Cleveland....
Click to expand...
I think the Jets had top 10 defenses in 2011-2012 (actually since 2009, and may have been #1 in some categories in 2009).
Click to expand...
...and how much of that is Ryan? how much Pettine? Ryan couldn't be more hands off with the offense, and it shows, but his hands are all over the defense. Post Revis, they were just as effective without Pettine as they were with him. Is last year in Buffalo a product of Pettine? or the former Bills defensive coaching staff being just that awful?A lot more questions than answers, which shouldn't be too suprising given his background.
Click to expand...
Fair questions but you are changing targets.The above point was in response to saying he has been a DC on teams that have fared poorly three years in a row.

So it seemed like the point was that how the Jets did OVERALLL, reflected poorly on Pettine (oddly, despite being top ten for nearly a half decade). Now that we are focusing on DEFENSE, all of a sudden Pettine isn't responsible any more?

Heads, the Pettine is a bad candidate position wins. Tails, the Pettine isn't a good candidate position wins.

Huh, looks like you win no matter what! :)

* Guessing Sheldon Richardson helped overcome the loss of Revis.
Click to expand...
In the end, what effect has he had on the teams he has coached? They sucked and these guys ventured out into the never to find a 'winner.' This does not fit. It's been 4 years since he has been on a winner. We fired a puppet that ended up not being a puppet to bring in another puppet (they hope, anyway) and start the process all over again with a guy that has proven nothing with limited options to build his support staff.This franchise is a ####### joke.
Click to expand...
Again, A DC is blamed and held accountable for the Jets OVERALL failures (in this case, primarily offense), not HC Rex.But whatever success the defense had, was due to Rex and not Pettine.

I could see a better case made for the second point, but the first one is pretty counterintuitive, you have to admit. What exactly do butt fumbles have to do with Pettine? :)

* By this rationale, if a team has the #1 defense 3-4 years in a row, but the offense is #32 in the same time frame, and they go 7-9 each season during that span, does that make the DC a "loser".

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Just now on Cleveland Browns Daily Vic Carucci just said a couple of very interesting things.

1. He was SUPPOSED to still be down in Atlanta but he is back in Berea where it is expected the team will announce the new hire.

2. On his flght who was he seated next to? Doug Marone, the HC of the Buffalo Bills and Doug told Vic that 'We are getting a good man.' So Doug thinks its a done-deal.

3. Really interesting tidbit. It seems that the talk of Josh McDaniels DID NOT COME FROM THE BROWNS. IT CAME FROM JOSH McDANIELS. Ehh interesting.

Right now they are going into all of the background information that they have found about Pettine and it sounds like he's very-well thought of around the league and his connection with players is outstanding. Hoyer told him that he's excited about Pettine and I think we're going to hear a lot more here soon.

Go to the link to hear the live show.

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/media-center/audio/Cleveland_Browns_Daily_LIVE/2a0cc2c2-5d29-4b02-ac5b-b8b07fc17475

 
Bob Magaw said:
Again, A DC is blamed and held accountable for the Jets OVERALL failures (in this case, primarily offense), not HC Rex.
But whatever success the defense had, was due to Rex and not Pettine.

I could see a better case made for the second point, but the first one is pretty counterintuitive, you have to admit. What exactly do butt fumbles have to do with Pettine? :)

* By this rationale, if a team has the #1 defense 3-4 years in a row, but the offense is #32 in the same time frame, and they go 7-9 each season during that span, does that make the DC a "loser".
Click to expand...
You're glossing over the overall point and choosing to nitpick the details. These guys said we're going out and getting a winner then they're bringing in a guy that's been on a losing team 3 consecutive years? They made a change just for the sake of making a change, they had no plan, it seemed like the case a month ago but it is painfully obvious now. Bringing in another coordinator no one else considered a viable candidate.

Neither side is right about what sort of coach Pettine is or isn't, it's all just questions surrounding him. There's a narrative that paints a pretty picture and one that doesn't. In the end, it's all just questions - no answers. Typical from this clown show of a franchise.

 
this sucks

anytime the Bills make a good move, the coach or player doesn't stick around long enough to make much of an impact.

 
MAC_32 said:
Bob Magaw said:
Again, A DC is blamed and held accountable for the Jets OVERALL failures (in this case, primarily offense), not HC Rex.

But whatever success the defense had, was due to Rex and not Pettine.

I could see a better case made for the second point, but the first one is pretty counterintuitive, you have to admit. What exactly do butt fumbles have to do with Pettine? :)

* By this rationale, if a team has the #1 defense 3-4 years in a row, but the offense is #32 in the same time frame, and they go 7-9 each season during that span, does that make the DC a "loser".
Click to expand...
You're glossing over the overall point and choosing to nitpick the details. These guys said we're going out and getting a winner then they're bringing in a guy that's been on a losing team 3 consecutive years? They made a change just for the sake of making a change, they had no plan, it seemed like the case a month ago but it is painfully obvious now. Bringing in another coordinator no one else considered a viable candidate.Neither side is right about what sort of coach Pettine is or isn't, it's all just questions surrounding him. There's a narrative that paints a pretty picture and one that doesn't. In the end, it's all just questions - no answers. Typical from this clown show of a franchise.
Click to expand...
You seem to be glossing over the fact that Pettine's good Jets defenses were embedded on bad overall TEAMS the past few years.

Is pointing out that butt fumbles aren't his fault nitpicking... it doesn't seem like an excessively micro level of detail, just a common sense point it would be remiss to not clarify. You said yourself neither side is right, which would seem to recommend an open mind. If someone is determined to find the negatives in the person or situation, you can probably think of thousands of things.

Maybe they did over promise and under deliver, but several people that were "winners" declined. Sometimes beggars can't be choosers. Pretty sure current HCs like Belichick and former ones like Cowher weren't available. You can bemoan the fact that CLE put themselves in this situation by making the job appear toxic and radioactive by firing Chud after one year (and maybe that is your biggest beef). Though it seems like some in CAR were happy to see him go. What if they regretted the hire? Should they stick with a HC they no longer trust and have confidence in, or pull the plug and move on? Firing a HC after one year has consequences, but so does keeping one around you no longer want... which is worse? So maybe the most serious mistake was hiring Chud in the first place (was there something irregular about the process last year, or another case where they "settled" for a candidate that wasn't there first choice?).

 
Daryl Ruiter‏@RuiterWrongFANhttp://mike pettine mic'd up

Jets Nation Inside Camp: Mike Pettine Mic'd Up

Published on Aug 20, 2012

Jets defensive coordinator Mike Pettine is Mic'd Up for practice during training camp, and also sits down to discuss his experiences coaching in the NFL

----------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QQala6Y9dw

WNST -- "Ravens coach Mike Pettine does chalk talk"

Uploaded on Oct 25, 2007

Nestor Aparicio was joined by Ravens defensive assistant Mike Pettine at Piv's Pub. Football coaches know the most about football and this is one of our favorite nights! We love chalktalking...
-----------------------------------------------------------------

FootballScoop Staff @footballscoop Follow

“Great evaluator of talent…free agents, draft prospects…the best I have been around"

10:19 AM - 23 Jan 2014
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Even Terry Pluto is on-board with Pettine.

http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2014/01/cleveland_browns_may_be_ok_wit.html

Cleveland Browns may be OK with Mike Pettine as the new coach: Terry Pluto

Pettine at least has some qualities that are appealing.

That's especially true after taking a hard look at Pettine's work as Buffalo's defensive coordinator in 2013.

Pettine took over a Bills defense that ranked 22nd, and moved it up to No. 10.

I know, the Browns ranked No. 9 in total yards allowed, so what's the big deal?

Let's look at what the Browns consider important on defense -- and where the defense fell short last season:

1. RED ZONE: The Browns ranked 30th (64 percent) in allowing touchdowns inside the 20, Buffalo was No 8. In 2012, the Bills ranked No. 31.

2. THIRD DOWN CONVERSIONS: The Browns ranked 31st (45 percent), the Bills were No. 14 (37 percent).

3. SACKS: The Browns ranked 16th (40), the Bills were No. 2 (57).

4. INTERCEPTIONS: The Browns ranked 20th (14), the Bills were No. 2 (23).

5. POINTS: The Browns were 23rd (25.4), the Bills were 21st (24.2). At least the Bills improved from a 26th ranking a year ago.

The reason I start this with a look at Pettine's one season in Buffalo is that it's at least something tangible.

The Bills were a lousy defense in most categories when he arrived. In one season, he made them a good defense.

Profootballfocus.com rated Buffalo;'s defense as No. 4 in the NFL. They had the Browns at No. 21.

 
I recently read a great book about football, "Collision Low Crossers," where a New Yorker writer spent an entire season embedded with the 2011 NY Jets. He was allowed to attend all team meetings, coaching sessions, etc.

I'm not a Jets fan, just a huge fan of behind-the-scenes NFL stuff. Mike Pettine came across as the star. If you want to know about him, read that book. Here's a link to a really long excerpt of the book. And here are some of the parts about Pettine from that excerpt:

When the defensive coaches spent after-meetings time together at the Combine, Ryan was never with them. Since coming to the Jets, he’d left active management of the defense to Pettine. To many, Pettine was a man of inscrutable, complicated passions, the dark order complementing Ryan’s joyful chaos. In Baltimore, he had been Ryan’s protégé, and the two had worked so well together over the years, planning the Ravens defense, that they had become “brothers,” as Ryan put it. The past two years in New York, the Jets defense had been either the best in the league or just about. Pettine had run the defensive meetings and done the majority of the defensive game-plan building, and Ryan had asked him to call some of the games from the coaching box high above the field. Now Ryan was making it public that all the game-calling responsibilities would be Pettine’s. These had all been Ryan’s privileges as the Ravens defensive coordinator, and he wanted to treat Pettine with the same consideration and trust Ravens head coach Brian Billick had given Ryan.

.....

Pettine was all about winning. He thought that since so many uncontrollable variables decided whether or not a football team would be successful, it was vital to control what variables you could. Pettine believed Jeff Weeks was impeding the Jets’ chances to be successful. In midseason of 2010, Pettine wrote and distributed a ten-point memo entitled “Coach like a Jet” that detailed his expectations for defensive coaches. These included “Can grade their players bluntly and honestly based on detailed knowledge of each defensive call” and “Completes their weekly scouting report assignment and practice cards professionally and on time.” He did this because Weeks was falling short in many areas, and Pettine wanted Weeks to understand what was expected of him; he also wanted to spare Ryan what he knew would be a painful confrontation. Mostly, Weeks concentrated on keeping out of Pettine’s way, and in the daily defensive meetings led by Pettine, he refrained from saying a word.

...

In his best moments on film, Temple University’s Muhammad Wilkerson had impressed Pettine as much as any lineman in the draft. He weighed 315 pounds, had arms that were three feet long, and he looked like a Volkswagen when he sprinted. But Pettine worried that on too many snaps, Wilkerson needed “a little gunpowder in his Wheaties.”

 
Bob Magaw said:
Maybe they did over promise and under deliver, but several people that were "winners" declined. Sometimes beggars can't be choosers. Pretty sure current HCs like Belichick and former ones like Cowher weren't available. You can bemoan the fact that CLE put themselves in this situation by making the job appear toxic and radioactive by firing Chud after one year (and maybe that is your biggest beef). Though it seems like some in CAR were happy to see him go. What if they regretted the hire? Should they stick with a HC they no longer trust and have confidence in, or pull the plug and move on? Firing a HC after one year has consequences, but so does keeping one around you no longer want... which is worse? So maybe the most serious mistake was hiring Chud in the first place (was there something irregular about the process last year, or another case where they "settled" for a candidate that wasn't there first choice?).
Click to expand...
I've kept an open mind with the front office while most have thrown pitch forks at them from the beginning because they have an axe to grind with Lombardi and Banner has a bad rep. This whole situation leaves me with no faith in them. They may be able to identify cost effective talent, but that doesn't matter if they are ineffective running a team. While many defended Tom Heckert for years I often fought back. Yeah, he's good at acquiring cost effective talent, but assembling a team on the field? Not at all. He couldn't develop the full, big picture. I'm seeing similar issues with these guys. They can identify pieces, but cannot put them together. The big picture escapes them, they can't see beyond what is directly in front of them. It happened last year in the hiring process for Chud then repeated itself when they decided to fire him. They didn't realize the situation they were walking themselves into until they were actually out there. In a management position, huge problem.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Defensively, is Pettine a step up from Horton?
Click to expand...
Hope it doesn't matter because as a head coach I don't want him focusing on the day to day activities of the defense - he needs to focus on running the team. At worst I think the defense will be fine, the OC and QB hires are of much greater importance.

Horton intrigued me when he was brought in, but I was never a fan of the transition being implemented last year given our personnel. We used the majority of our resources to over haul the front 7, that wasn't a problem in the first place, but left misfits at ILB and ignored our issues in the secondary. It seemed like he was able to scheme around the weaknesses week to week, but he failed to make in-game adjustments, as we had several second half collapses that the defense at the very least shares blame in letting happen. Tough to be too hard on him given the situation, but I was under whelmed. Eventually, the lack of halftime adjustments were going to catch up to him one way or the other.

 
Jets fan here, I think you guys are getting a very good coach. He's always struck me as someone who will be a very good head coach; he's very detail oriented, and he just strikes me as HC material. The only concern I'd have is that he might emulate some of Rex's bad habits, like completely ignoring the offense and being a DC who also happens to be the head coach.

Someone mentioned Collision Low Crossers earlier, and one other thing to note in that book is how adversarial Pettine was to the offense when he was the DC. I think he's smart enough to not do that now that he's the HC, but it's something to be aware of.

 
(RotoWire)New Browns head coach Mike Pettine said that Hoyer (torn ACL) has "off the chart" intangibles, the Cleveland Plain Dealer's Mary Kay Cabots reports. "I think he's a winner," Pettine said. "The intangibles are off the charts."

Analysis: Hoyer fared reasonably well during a two-game stint as the Browns' staring quarterback in 2013, but his success was a bit overblown. His third start of the season ended early due to a torn ACL, and Hoyer finished the year completing 57-of-96 passes (59.4 percent) for 615 yards (6.41 YPA), with five touchdowns and three interceptions. The knee injury occurred in October, so Hoyer could conceivably be ready for training camp. The Browns will likely retain him in some capacity, but Hoyer's presence probably won't prevent the organization from targeting a potential franchise quarterback. Prior to last season, the 28-year-old signal-caller had attempted just 96 passes in a four-year career spent mostly as Tom Brady's backup.

 
How do the fans generally feel about Lombardi?

I like what he's done from afar. Certainly doesn't seem to accept losing well at all.

Browns get the Saints next year by the way; I think the Browns have the best overall all time HTH record against the Saints.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
How do the fans generally feel about Lombardi?

I like what he's done from afar. Certainly doesn't seem to accept losing well at all.

Browns get the Saints next year by the way; I think the Browns have the best overall all time HTH record against the Saints.
Click to expand...
Fans, and some of the media, generally continue to grind the axe with Lombardi over issues here in the 90's. He also has done very few interviews or gets in front of the mic at a presser. This has to be by design. I don't know how often GM's around the league speak publicly, but Lombardi has to be near the bottom of that list. This doesn't sit well with a fan base that wants to be very close to what's going on from a player personnel standpoint. In contrast, former GM Phil Savage used to have a weekly radio spot interview. Lots of fluff, but there were plenty of tidbits you could gather from those interviews.

 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

U
Cleveland Browns road to the number 1 seed!
Replies
8
Views
746
Gatorman
Gatorman
Ministry of Pain
**Browns at Bengals** (-7, 37) 1:00
Replies
7
Views
298
Dez
Dez
Ministry of Pain
**Bears at Browns**(-3, 37.5) 1:00
2 3
Replies
102
Views
2K
Max Power
Max Power

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 15 (members: 0, guests: 15)
Top