Colts / Browns, Steelers / Rams, When will Refs be held accountable? (1 Viewer)

[wgoldsph]

What I want to know is /why/ something like spot of the ball is a judgement call. We literally have Toy Story Football, why isn't the same ball tracking technology used to determine the exact spot? Why can't a ball have an internal chip that lets the refs know the time when it reached a certain area, so they can match the timing up with the film and no longer have to try to piece together if the ball broke the line or if a player hit the ground first. Shouldn't that sort of thing be the first implementation of the "toy story" tech, taking all the questions from the officiating and taking the human error out of it.

I don't think it's an official policy, more of a wink and nod, that every game needs to have an entertaining ending. But it certainly seems like no team is allowed to sit on a two td lead with a 4th quarter filled with long boring runs that take up 8 minutes without the refs needing to blow the whistle constantly.

 

[JohnnyU]

Find me better officials. Where will you find them? These are the top 1%. Even the checkboxes are good officials.
Most of these guys put full time hours in during the season and close to it in the off season. These officials love the sport of football.
They have no bias and are not out to get your team.

Who cares? Just make them held accountable and not just penalized by leaving them out of the playoffs. Also make it public. Players are fined and it is very public.

Are players fined for missing a block, holding, or false start?
Players are fined for uniform violations, dangerous plays, and off field items.

These were collective bargained. Same with the officials, it is in their contract.
Would you feel better knowing Dyrol got 5 demerits for missing a DPI, or a spot?

I want accountability

no...you want accountability that fits your agenda....these guys are held accountable behind the scenes like most people at their jobs....in fact they are probably held more accountable than anybody at their jobs....they are literally graded on every single play of every single game even if they may not have been directly involved in it.....they get reprimanded, downgraded, etc. based on performance ever week....promoted/demoted/playoffs/no playoffs...I can tell you are basically asking that they get tarred and feathered in some type of public forum.....just not gonna happen.....just like you and me at our jobs...

BS, how are they held accountable? So what if they don't get to do a playoff game? How are they demoted other than not being able to do a playoff game if they are deemed bad officials? You won't see them getting fired, except once in a blue moon. I know if I don't perform at my job I will lose that job.

 

[brettdj]

Find me better officials. Where will you find them? These are the top 1%. Even the checkboxes are good officials.
Most of these guys put full time hours in during the season and close to it in the off season. These officials love the sport of football.
They have no bias and are not out to get your team.

Who cares? Just make them held accountable and not just penalized by leaving them out of the playoffs. Also make it public. Players are fined and it is very public.

Are players fined for missing a block, holding, or false start?
Players are fined for uniform violations, dangerous plays, and off field items.

These were collective bargained. Same with the officials, it is in their contract.
Would you feel better knowing Dyrol got 5 demerits for missing a DPI, or a spot?

I want accountability

no...you want accountability that fits your agenda....these guys are held accountable behind the scenes like most people at their jobs....in fact they are probably held more accountable than anybody at their jobs....they are literally graded on every single play of every single game even if they may not have been directly involved in it.....they get reprimanded, downgraded, etc. based on performance ever week....promoted/demoted/playoffs/no playoffs...I can tell you are basically asking that they get tarred and feathered in some type of public forum.....just not gonna happen.....just like you and me at our jobs...

BS, how are they held accountable? So what if they don't get to do a playoff game? How are they demoted other than not being able to do a playoff game if they are deemed bad officials? You won't see them getting fired, except once in a blue moon. I know if I don't perform at my job I will lose that job.

First off, they are great officials, even the "bad" ones. Most jobs do not have the number of decisions to be made that officiating does. And these decisions are made in a 7 second window.

If you perform your job at 97% or greater, will you lose your job? How many plays are in a typical NFL game? NCAA games have about 150 plays. That means each official making 1 mistake has 7 mistakes in the game and they still grade out above 99%.

You might not see them fired, but how much do you watch for which official is on which game/crew? I track 11 crews, because I know at least one official on each of them. Sometimes an individual gets pulled from a game, without any public knowledge. During the offseason, some are given the opportunity to retire instead of being fired. That happens in the business world too.

(I will check in on this tomorrow off to officiate 2 flag football games and a JV game) Hopefully I can keep the mistakes to less than the players/coaches.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Irsay: NFL 'admits' 2 incorrect calls in Colts' loss

Indianapolis Colts owner Jim Irsay says the NFL "admits and understands" that two pivotal calls at the end of his team's loss to the Cleveland Browns on Sunday were incorrect, as coach Shane Steichen's club fell to 3-4 after the home defeat.

www.espn.com

I am not a fan of Irsay, but props to him for revealing this.

The NFL is too arrogant to realize it, but transparency would go a long way with the public. I think most of us realize that some calls will get missed, but the NFL keeping any chatter about in house is a bad look. Not saying they have to throw the officials directly under the bus, but weekly reports about impactful missed calls is not too much to ask, and any pushback about "does this happen at your job?" is an apples and oranges situation since the rest of us do not work on TV and make decisions that affect games watched by millions.

I'll bet the other owners are pissed at Irsay for this, but that's because they are all arrogant millionaires who think no one should challenge the way the NFL runs its organization.

 

[FairWarning]

I can see the call in the colts game, no way the spot in the Steelers game should have stood.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

The games aren't rigged.

NFL officiating right now just isn't very good.

I confess.
The fix is in.
I paid the refs in the Browns/Colts game $1 to throw the game.
That is why we didn't see a typical game with excellent officiating.
It was all me.

 

[JohnnyU]

Irsay: NFL 'admits' 2 incorrect calls in Colts' loss

Indianapolis Colts owner Jim Irsay says the NFL "admits and understands" that two pivotal calls at the end of his team's loss to the Cleveland Browns on Sunday were incorrect, as coach Shane Steichen's club fell to 3-4 after the home defeat.

www.espn.com

I am not a fan of Irsay, but props to him for revealing this.

The NFL is too arrogant to realize it, but transparency would go a long way with the public. I think most of us realize that some calls will get missed, but the NFL keeping any chatter about in house is a bad look. Not saying they have to throw the officials directly under the bus, but weekly reports about impactful missed calls is not too much to ask, and any pushback about "does this happen at your job?" is an apples and oranges situation since the rest of us do not work on TV and make decisions that affect games watched by millions.

I'll bet the other owners are pissed at Irsay for this, but that's because they are all arrogant millionaires who think no one should challenge the way the NFL runs its organization.

Irsay's statement "I believe we need to institute Instant Replay for all calls, including Penalties, in the last two minutes of All Games.". Isn't this obvious? Do it before this happens in the big game.

 

[Birdie048]

Does this bring up the "Full Time NFL Official" discussion?
NFL rejected it due to all the benefits required, like Medical, vacation, 401K, etc.
It certainly is not the Pay scale, these guys get good money and travel paid, etc.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

Does this bring up the "Full Time NFL Official" discussion?
NFL rejected it due to all the benefits required, like Medical, vacation, 401K, etc.
It certainly is not the Pay scale, these guys get good money and travel paid, etc.

whether they are "full time" or not people are still going to find things to complain about EVERY week.....especially since "judgement" is involved in most of the questionable/controversial calls....it isn't going to make people less angry if they see a questionable call....."oh well they are full time so I'm not going to complain"....

if a rule gets implemented or interpreted wrong, that's one thing....(this rarely happens).....

and since every "judgement call" is unique and different in some way.....judgement isn't really something that being a full time vs part time official is really going to help....I guess you could argue that continually watching replays all year might help decision making.... advantage/disadvantage type stuff.....but they do a ton of this stuff already all year and all off season....before and after games....especially afterwards they are often sent film of their calls with critiques immediately for review and discussion...

 

[Birdie048]

Does this bring up the "Full Time NFL Official" discussion?
NFL rejected it due to all the benefits required, like Medical, vacation, 401K, etc.
It certainly is not the Pay scale, these guys get good money and travel paid, etc.

whether they are "full time" or not people are still going to find things to complain about EVERY week.....especially since "judgement" is involved in most of the questionable/controversial calls....it isn't going to make people less angry if they see a questionable call....."oh well they are full time so I'm not going to complain"....

if a rule gets implemented or interpreted wrong, that's one thing....(this rarely happens).....

and since every "judgement call" is unique and different in some way.....judgement isn't really something that being a full time vs part time official is really going to help....I guess you could argue that continually watching replays all year might help decision making.... advantage/disadvantage type stuff.....but they do a ton of this stuff already all year and all off season....before and after games....especially afterwards they are often sent film of their calls with critiques immediately for review and discussion...

But with a team Full Time Referees, Training, Certification and expected Proficiency could be a standard practice on those who get poor grades.

Just like in the business world, if you don't keep up to the standard, you get to retrain, and if you still do poor, you are let go.

 

[Steelers4Life]

Irsay: NFL 'admits' 2 incorrect calls in Colts' loss

Indianapolis Colts owner Jim Irsay says the NFL "admits and understands" that two pivotal calls at the end of his team's loss to the Cleveland Browns on Sunday were incorrect, as coach Shane Steichen's club fell to 3-4 after the home defeat.

www.espn.com

I am not a fan of Irsay, but props to him for revealing this.

The NFL is too arrogant to realize it, but transparency would go a long way with the public. I think most of us realize that some calls will get missed, but the NFL keeping any chatter about in house is a bad look. Not saying they have to throw the officials directly under the bus, but weekly reports about impactful missed calls is not too much to ask, and any pushback about "does this happen at your job?" is an apples and oranges situation since the rest of us do not work on TV and make decisions that affect games watched by millions.

I'll bet the other owners are pissed at Irsay for this, but that's because they are all arrogant millionaires who think no one should challenge the way the NFL runs its organization.

Irsay's statement "I believe we need to institute Instant Replay for all calls, including Penalties, in the last two minutes of All Games.". Isn't this obvious? Do it before this happens in the big game.

You keep saying this, but it already happened at the end of the NFC Championship with a trip to the Super Bowl on the line. That's a pretty big game.

So, what happens if that exact play happens in the 2nd quarter and the team that gets screwed over ultimately ends up losing by 2? Opening up challenges to judgement calls is a big mistake, because not all of them are going to be clear and most of them don't happen in the last 2 minutes.

 

[Godsbrother]

What I want to know is /why/ something like spot of the ball is a judgement call. We literally have Toy Story Football, why isn't the same ball tracking technology used to determine the exact spot? Why can't a ball have an internal chip that lets the refs know the time when it reached a certain area, so they can match the timing up with the film and no longer have to try to piece together if the ball broke the line or if a player hit the ground first. Shouldn't that sort of thing be the first implementation of the "toy story" tech, taking all the questions from the officiating and taking the human error out of it.

I don't think it's an official policy, more of a wink and nod, that every game needs to have an entertaining ending. But it certainly seems like no team is allowed to sit on a two td lead with a 4th quarter filled with long boring runs that take up 8 minutes without the refs needing to blow the whistle constantly.

Did you watch the "Toy Story" broadcast? I thought it was a mess, no way I want anything like that used.

Chips won't be 100% accurate and neither will officials be perfect synching the chip's reading to the nano-second a player's knee/elbow/forearm hits the ground. It is all still subject to error.

<old fart rant> The NFL didn't institute instant replay review until 1986 and most people that watched games back then will tell you it was a better product. There were still bad calls and people complained when it happened but the game flow was much better and you didn't have to wait 10 minutes for officials to look at 18 different angles and sometimes still not get it right. The original idea was for IR to only be used to overturn calls that were obviously wrong. Now have people asking to make every play reviewable or to use unproven technology to spot the ball. Please let's leave it alone. </old fart rant>

 

[Dickies]

Find me better officials. Where will you find them? These are the top 1%. Even the checkboxes are good officials.
Most of these guys put full time hours in during the season and close to it in the off season. These officials love the sport of football.
They have no bias and are not out to get your team.

There are a lot of better ones in this thread apparently.

 

[JohnnyU]

Irsay: NFL 'admits' 2 incorrect calls in Colts' loss

Indianapolis Colts owner Jim Irsay says the NFL "admits and understands" that two pivotal calls at the end of his team's loss to the Cleveland Browns on Sunday were incorrect, as coach Shane Steichen's club fell to 3-4 after the home defeat.

www.espn.com

I am not a fan of Irsay, but props to him for revealing this.

The NFL is too arrogant to realize it, but transparency would go a long way with the public. I think most of us realize that some calls will get missed, but the NFL keeping any chatter about in house is a bad look. Not saying they have to throw the officials directly under the bus, but weekly reports about impactful missed calls is not too much to ask, and any pushback about "does this happen at your job?" is an apples and oranges situation since the rest of us do not work on TV and make decisions that affect games watched by millions.

I'll bet the other owners are pissed at Irsay for this, but that's because they are all arrogant millionaires who think no one should challenge the way the NFL runs its organization.

Irsay's statement "I believe we need to institute Instant Replay for all calls, including Penalties, in the last two minutes of All Games.". Isn't this obvious? Do it before this happens in the big game.

You keep saying this, but it already happened at the end of the NFC Championship with a trip to the Super Bowl on the line. That's a pretty big game.

So, what happens if that exact play happens in the 2nd quarter and the team that gets screwed over ultimately ends up losing by 2? Opening up challenges to judgement calls is a big mistake, because not all of them are going to be clear and most of them don't happen in the last 2 minutes.

I said just the last 2 minutes, not the whole game.

 

[brettdj]

Find me better officials. Where will you find them? These are the top 1%. Even the checkboxes are good officials.
Most of these guys put full time hours in during the season and close to it in the off season. These officials love the sport of football.
They have no bias and are not out to get your team.

There are a lot of better ones in this thread apparently.

I would love to help them get started at the high school and youth levels.

 

[Banger]

This is not hard…technology is the answer and the NFL despite having the deepest pockets of any league is the absolute worst with their utilization. They use it in tennis, soccer, baseball seamlessly but in football they still have a 68 year old guy running half way across the field and putting his foot down to mark when the ball should be placed on a critical 4th down play. It’s laughable.

Look at the Amazon broadcast where they can predict based on AI before a play actually occurs. The technology is there, the NFL just has to implement it. Until then, these same problems will happen every weekend and unfairly impact games.

 

[JohnnyU]

This is not hard…technology is the answer and the NFL despite having the deepest pockets of any league is the absolute worst with their utilization. They use it in tennis, soccer, baseball seamlessly but in football they still have a 68 year old guy running half way across the field and putting his foot down to mark when the ball should be placed on a critical 4th down play. It’s laughable.

Look at the Amazon broadcast where they can predict based on AI before a play actually occurs. The technology is there, the NFL just has to implement it. Until then, these same problems will happen every weekend and unfairly impact games.

The NFL is cheap and lazy. They will also use the 2019 interference debacle as reason not to change anything ("unintended consequences"). They don't want to roll up their sleeves to solve this problem. They want to keep things as they are and just collect the money. A sky judge would be a good start.

 

[pinkstapler]

What I want to know is /why/ something like spot of the ball is a judgement call. We literally have Toy Story Football, why isn't the same ball tracking technology used to determine the exact spot? Why can't a ball have an internal chip that lets the refs know the time when it reached a certain area, so they can match the timing up with the film and no longer have to try to piece together if the ball broke the line or if a player hit the ground first. Shouldn't that sort of thing be the first implementation of the "toy story" tech, taking all the questions from the officiating and taking the human error out of it.

I don't think it's an official policy, more of a wink and nod, that every game needs to have an entertaining ending. But it certainly seems like no team is allowed to sit on a two td lead with a 4th quarter filled with long boring runs that take up 8 minutes without the refs needing to blow the whistle constantly.

Did you watch the "Toy Story" broadcast? I thought it was a mess, no way I want anything like that used.

Chips won't be 100% accurate and neither will officials be perfect synching the chip's reading to the nano-second a player's knee/elbow/forearm hits the ground. It is all still subject to error.

<old fart rant> The NFL didn't institute instant replay review until 1986 and most people that watched games back then will tell you it was a better product. There were still bad calls and people complained when it happened but the game flow was much better and you didn't have to wait 10 minutes for officials to look at 18 different angles and sometimes still not get it right. The original idea was for IR to only be used to overturn calls that were obviously wrong. Now have people asking to make every play reviewable or to use unproven technology to spot the ball. Please let's leave it alone. </old fart rant>

I honestly think this has more to do with advertising than the veracity of NFL officiating. Challenges = time outs and time outs = commercial breaks which = more money.

 

[Steelers4Life]

Irsay: NFL 'admits' 2 incorrect calls in Colts' loss

Indianapolis Colts owner Jim Irsay says the NFL "admits and understands" that two pivotal calls at the end of his team's loss to the Cleveland Browns on Sunday were incorrect, as coach Shane Steichen's club fell to 3-4 after the home defeat.

www.espn.com

I am not a fan of Irsay, but props to him for revealing this.

The NFL is too arrogant to realize it, but transparency would go a long way with the public. I think most of us realize that some calls will get missed, but the NFL keeping any chatter about in house is a bad look. Not saying they have to throw the officials directly under the bus, but weekly reports about impactful missed calls is not too much to ask, and any pushback about "does this happen at your job?" is an apples and oranges situation since the rest of us do not work on TV and make decisions that affect games watched by millions.

I'll bet the other owners are pissed at Irsay for this, but that's because they are all arrogant millionaires who think no one should challenge the way the NFL runs its organization.

Irsay's statement "I believe we need to institute Instant Replay for all calls, including Penalties, in the last two minutes of All Games.". Isn't this obvious? Do it before this happens in the big game.

You keep saying this, but it already happened at the end of the NFC Championship with a trip to the Super Bowl on the line. That's a pretty big game.

So, what happens if that exact play happens in the 2nd quarter and the team that gets screwed over ultimately ends up losing by 2? Opening up challenges to judgement calls is a big mistake, because not all of them are going to be clear and most of them don't happen in the last 2 minutes.

I said just the last 2 minutes, not the whole game.

And that's the point. Judgement calls made in the 1st quarter can have just as big of an impact as anything in the last two minutes.

The whole "final two minutes" thing is stupid. It's a band-aid on a bigger problem, but no matter how many mistakes the refs make, they're right way more they're wrong and given the reaction speed they need to have and speed of what's going on around them, they're very good at what they do. Calls go both ways, but people tend to only focus on the ones that serve their purpose.

 

[Soulfly3]

ah, so NOW the refs have to be held accountable...???? (yes, I'm salty a Colts fan started this thread)

the first penalty was 100% legit, sorry to say. and there are many former players who have agreed w the call. I'm with you on call 2, that was pathetic.

but where was this energy when I started a thread about a 60+yd TD being nullified COMPLETELY on Amari Cooper for "stepping out of bounds", with a linesman 5yds away, and he legitimately wasn't even AN ACTUAL FOOT from stepping out of bounds?

That, my friend, is a no-contest 10x worse call than anything that happened in that Colts v Browns game. It's perhaps the most terrible call ever made by a professional referee in NFL history. Yes, it was THAT bad. There was zero obstruction. Zero distance from the play. And Mr Magoo sees he's in bounds.

Not sure what I'm referring to? Lemme help you....

Here You Go.

 

[Godsbrother]

but where was this energy when I started a thread about a 60+yd TD being nullified COMPLETELY on Amari Cooper for "stepping out of bounds", with a linesman 5yds away, and he legitimately wasn't even AN ACTUAL FOOT from stepping out of bounds?

That, my friend, is a no-contest 10x worse call than anything that happened in that Colts v Browns game. It's perhaps the most terrible call ever made by a professional referee in NFL history. Yes, it was THAT bad. There was zero obstruction. Zero distance from the play. And Mr Magoo sees he's in bounds.

Not sure what I'm referring to? Lemme help you....

Here You Go.

That was horrible, I have no idea what that ref was looking at. Did the Browns challenge?

 

[Soulfly3]

but where was this energy when I started a thread about a 60+yd TD being nullified COMPLETELY on Amari Cooper for "stepping out of bounds", with a linesman 5yds away, and he legitimately wasn't even AN ACTUAL FOOT from stepping out of bounds?

That, my friend, is a no-contest 10x worse call than anything that happened in that Colts v Browns game. It's perhaps the most terrible call ever made by a professional referee in NFL history. Yes, it was THAT bad. There was zero obstruction. Zero distance from the play. And Mr Magoo sees he's in bounds.

Not sure what I'm referring to? Lemme help you....

Here You Go.

That was horrible, I have no idea what that ref was looking at. Did the Browns challenge?

couldn't be challeneged, the play was whistled dead.

 

[Godsbrother]

but where was this energy when I started a thread about a 60+yd TD being nullified COMPLETELY on Amari Cooper for "stepping out of bounds", with a linesman 5yds away, and he legitimately wasn't even AN ACTUAL FOOT from stepping out of bounds?

That, my friend, is a no-contest 10x worse call than anything that happened in that Colts v Browns game. It's perhaps the most terrible call ever made by a professional referee in NFL history. Yes, it was THAT bad. There was zero obstruction. Zero distance from the play. And Mr Magoo sees he's in bounds.

Not sure what I'm referring to? Lemme help you....

Here You Go.

That was horrible, I have no idea what that ref was looking at. Did the Browns challenge?

couldn't be challeneged, the play was whistled dead.

Yeah I guess it would be. This might be one of the worst calls I've ever seen.

 

[Steelers4Life]

ah, so NOW the refs have to be held accountable...???? (yes, I'm salty a Colts fan started this thread)

the first penalty was 100% legit, sorry to say. and there are many former players who have agreed w the call. I'm with you on call 2, that was pathetic.

but where was this energy when I started a thread about a 60+yd TD being nullified COMPLETELY on Amari Cooper for "stepping out of bounds", with a linesman 5yds away, and he legitimately wasn't even AN ACTUAL FOOT from stepping out of bounds?

That, my friend, is a no-contest 10x worse call than anything that happened in that Colts v Browns game. It's perhaps the most terrible call ever made by a professional referee in NFL history. Yes, it was THAT bad. There was zero obstruction. Zero distance from the play. And Mr Magoo sees he's in bounds.

Not sure what I'm referring to? Lemme help you....

Here You Go.

Ooof, terrible.

That's the point. Fans only see what they want to see. How many holding penalties did the Colts get away with on runs that sustained drives? Or how many times did they get away with ticky tack illegal contact penalties on receivers through the game? Those judgement calls matter too, not just the ones at the end of the game, and they happen in every game, every week.

Technology can solve some problems eventually soon, just like they do tennis shots being a millimeter out or a guy's arm being 3 inches offside in a soccer game. But there will always be judgement calls in football and you take the good with the bad and hope they even out.

 

[Dickies]

Find me better officials. Where will you find them? These are the top 1%. Even the checkboxes are good officials.
Most of these guys put full time hours in during the season and close to it in the off season. These officials love the sport of football.
They have no bias and are not out to get your team.

There are a lot of better ones in this thread apparently.

I would love to help them get started at the high school and youth levels.

I ump high school and youth baseball. There is such a shortage of people willing to do it that the spectators are generally well behaved, but there are always a few parents/fans who get chirpy.

I coach my son's soccer team and every game I warn the kids that there will be absolutely no complaining about the referees and that failure to abide by that will result in riding the bench for the rest of the game. Every game so far I've had to give a "final" warning (maybe I shouldn't, but the kids are still young enough that I think I should). Finally the last game one of my better players started complaining about the ref after he had already heard me warn another kid. He sat the bench for the entire second half. After the game the kid's parents came up to me to complain about his lack of playing time and I explained why. Their response was along the lines of "Yea, but he's not wrong, the refs were absolutely terrible" (I wonder where he gets it from) I told them that I thought the refs were really good and the best we'd seen all season (they were) and that if they feel they can do better they should get out there and do some games. I then sent a message to our team's group chat with a link to the referee training program with the message "Anyone who thinks that we suffer from less than stellar refs, this is your opportunity to enact change. We are desperately short referees and your help would be greatly appreciated"

 

[JohnnyU]

Irsay: NFL 'admits' 2 incorrect calls in Colts' loss

Indianapolis Colts owner Jim Irsay says the NFL "admits and understands" that two pivotal calls at the end of his team's loss to the Cleveland Browns on Sunday were incorrect, as coach Shane Steichen's club fell to 3-4 after the home defeat.

www.espn.com

I am not a fan of Irsay, but props to him for revealing this.

The NFL is too arrogant to realize it, but transparency would go a long way with the public. I think most of us realize that some calls will get missed, but the NFL keeping any chatter about in house is a bad look. Not saying they have to throw the officials directly under the bus, but weekly reports about impactful missed calls is not too much to ask, and any pushback about "does this happen at your job?" is an apples and oranges situation since the rest of us do not work on TV and make decisions that affect games watched by millions.

I'll bet the other owners are pissed at Irsay for this, but that's because they are all arrogant millionaires who think no one should challenge the way the NFL runs its organization.

Irsay's statement "I believe we need to institute Instant Replay for all calls, including Penalties, in the last two minutes of All Games.". Isn't this obvious? Do it before this happens in the big game.

You keep saying this, but it already happened at the end of the NFC Championship with a trip to the Super Bowl on the line. That's a pretty big game.

So, what happens if that exact play happens in the 2nd quarter and the team that gets screwed over ultimately ends up losing by 2? Opening up challenges to judgement calls is a big mistake, because not all of them are going to be clear and most of them don't happen in the last 2 minutes.

I said just the last 2 minutes, not the whole game.

And that's the point. Judgement calls made in the 1st quarter can have just as big of an impact as anything in the last two minutes.

The whole "final two minutes" thing is stupid. It's a band-aid on a bigger problem, but no matter how many mistakes the refs make, they're right way more they're wrong and given the reaction speed they need to have and speed of what's going on around them, they're very good at what they do. Calls go both ways, but people tend to only focus on the ones that serve their purpose.

 

[Steelers4Life]

Irsay: NFL 'admits' 2 incorrect calls in Colts' loss

Indianapolis Colts owner Jim Irsay says the NFL "admits and understands" that two pivotal calls at the end of his team's loss to the Cleveland Browns on Sunday were incorrect, as coach Shane Steichen's club fell to 3-4 after the home defeat.

www.espn.com

I am not a fan of Irsay, but props to him for revealing this.

The NFL is too arrogant to realize it, but transparency would go a long way with the public. I think most of us realize that some calls will get missed, but the NFL keeping any chatter about in house is a bad look. Not saying they have to throw the officials directly under the bus, but weekly reports about impactful missed calls is not too much to ask, and any pushback about "does this happen at your job?" is an apples and oranges situation since the rest of us do not work on TV and make decisions that affect games watched by millions.

I'll bet the other owners are pissed at Irsay for this, but that's because they are all arrogant millionaires who think no one should challenge the way the NFL runs its organization.

Irsay's statement "I believe we need to institute Instant Replay for all calls, including Penalties, in the last two minutes of All Games.". Isn't this obvious? Do it before this happens in the big game.

You keep saying this, but it already happened at the end of the NFC Championship with a trip to the Super Bowl on the line. That's a pretty big game.

So, what happens if that exact play happens in the 2nd quarter and the team that gets screwed over ultimately ends up losing by 2? Opening up challenges to judgement calls is a big mistake, because not all of them are going to be clear and most of them don't happen in the last 2 minutes.

I said just the last 2 minutes, not the whole game.

And that's the point. Judgement calls made in the 1st quarter can have just as big of an impact as anything in the last two minutes.

The whole "final two minutes" thing is stupid. It's a band-aid on a bigger problem, but no matter how many mistakes the refs make, they're right way more they're wrong and given the reaction speed they need to have and speed of what's going on around them, they're very good at what they do. Calls go both ways, but people tend to only focus on the ones that serve their purpose.

It's the truth. You complain and call for change because your team was on the short end of 2 calls at the end of the game... but nevermind the calls or non-calls that went in your favor (that Cooper non-TD was brutal) and nevermind the ones that happen in the other 58 minutes of football. The Colts got screwed, so there's a problem lol. Win some, lose some.

 

[JohnnyU]

Irsay: NFL 'admits' 2 incorrect calls in Colts' loss

Indianapolis Colts owner Jim Irsay says the NFL "admits and understands" that two pivotal calls at the end of his team's loss to the Cleveland Browns on Sunday were incorrect, as coach Shane Steichen's club fell to 3-4 after the home defeat.

www.espn.com

I am not a fan of Irsay, but props to him for revealing this.

The NFL is too arrogant to realize it, but transparency would go a long way with the public. I think most of us realize that some calls will get missed, but the NFL keeping any chatter about in house is a bad look. Not saying they have to throw the officials directly under the bus, but weekly reports about impactful missed calls is not too much to ask, and any pushback about "does this happen at your job?" is an apples and oranges situation since the rest of us do not work on TV and make decisions that affect games watched by millions.

I'll bet the other owners are pissed at Irsay for this, but that's because they are all arrogant millionaires who think no one should challenge the way the NFL runs its organization.

Irsay's statement "I believe we need to institute Instant Replay for all calls, including Penalties, in the last two minutes of All Games.". Isn't this obvious? Do it before this happens in the big game.

You keep saying this, but it already happened at the end of the NFC Championship with a trip to the Super Bowl on the line. That's a pretty big game.

So, what happens if that exact play happens in the 2nd quarter and the team that gets screwed over ultimately ends up losing by 2? Opening up challenges to judgement calls is a big mistake, because not all of them are going to be clear and most of them don't happen in the last 2 minutes.

I said just the last 2 minutes, not the whole game.

And that's the point. Judgement calls made in the 1st quarter can have just as big of an impact as anything in the last two minutes.

The whole "final two minutes" thing is stupid. It's a band-aid on a bigger problem, but no matter how many mistakes the refs make, they're right way more they're wrong and given the reaction speed they need to have and speed of what's going on around them, they're very good at what they do. Calls go both ways, but people tend to only focus on the ones that serve their purpose.

It's the truth. You complain and call for change because your team was on the short end of 2 calls at the end of the game... but nevermind the calls or non-calls that went in your favor (that Cooper non-TD was brutal) and nevermind the ones that happen in the other 58 minutes of football. The Colts got screwed, so there's a problem lol. Win some, lose some.

That’s right just say it happens all the time and forget about it. A sky judge would be a good start, including penalties. He/or she would have a better view and the benefit of replay.

 

[Godsbrother]

It's the truth. You complain and call for change because your team was on the short end of 2 calls at the end of the game... but nevermind the calls or non-calls that went in your favor (that Cooper non-TD was brutal) and nevermind the ones that happen in the other 58 minutes of football. The Colts got screwed, so there's a problem lol. Win some, lose some.

Going back to the Cooper call, I can understand an official missing a penalty or making a judgement that I don't agree with but when officials start seeing things that didn't happen that is cause for alarm. Cooper wasn't within a foot of the sideline-- that was a horrendous mistake that couldn't have been overturned by review. That official needs glasses.

 

[Steelers4Life]

It's the truth. You complain and call for change because your team was on the short end of 2 calls at the end of the game... but nevermind the calls or non-calls that went in your favor (that Cooper non-TD was brutal) and nevermind the ones that happen in the other 58 minutes of football. The Colts got screwed, so there's a problem lol. Win some, lose some.

Going back to the Cooper call, I can understand an official missing a penalty or making a judgement that I don't agree with but when officials start seeing things that didn't happen that is cause for alarm. Cooper wasn't within a foot of the sideline-- that was a horrendous mistake that couldn't have been overturned by review. That official needs glasses.

Nah, it wasn't in the last two minutes so it clearly didn't impact the game nearly as much as the two that went against the Colts, right?

Seems to me that the two calls at the end were karma for the missed one on Cooper. Things generally balance out.

 

[JohnnyU]

It's the truth. You complain and call for change because your team was on the short end of 2 calls at the end of the game... but nevermind the calls or non-calls that went in your favor (that Cooper non-TD was brutal) and nevermind the ones that happen in the other 58 minutes of football. The Colts got screwed, so there's a problem lol. Win some, lose some.

Going back to the Cooper call, I can understand an official missing a penalty or making a judgement that I don't agree with but when officials start seeing things that didn't happen that is cause for alarm. Cooper wasn't within a foot of the sideline-- that was a horrendous mistake that couldn't have been overturned by review. That official needs glasses.

Nah, it wasn't in the last two minutes so it clearly didn't impact the game nearly as much as the two that went against the Colts, right?

Seems to me that the two calls at the end were karma for the missed one on Cooper. Things generally balance out.

I’m sorry but that is BS

 

[Stinkin Ref]

Johnny U cries literally every week in here....like most fans will every week if on the wrong side.....he even goes looking for times when teams like KC "seem to always be on the right side"....(Jets game/etc) .....calls will be missed every week in darn near every game....some teams are talented enough to overcome it....sometimes not.....like KC wasn't good enough last year to overcome it when they were on the wrong side at INDY......**** happens....be better....make more plays.....first thing most Chiefs said was they played like crap and shouldn't have been in that position for the Jones call to "cost" them....don't be in a position were a call "in the last two minutes" that doesn't go your way "costs" you....score more...give up less...be better....

 

[JohnnyU]

Johnny U cries literally every week in here....like most fans will every week if on the wrong side.....he even goes looking for times when teams like KC "seem to always be on the right side"....(Jets game/etc) .....calls will be missed every week in darn near every game....some teams are talented enough to overcome it....sometimes not.....like KC wasn't good enough last year to overcome it when they were on the wrong side at INDY......**** happens....be better....make more plays.....first thing most Chiefs said was they played like crap and shouldn't have been in that position for the Jones call to "cost" them....don't be in a position were a call "in the last two minutes" that doesn't go your way "costs" you....score more...give up less...be better....

Listen to yourself. You come across as an a-hole and a holier than thou one at that.

 

[Utter Chaos]

It's the truth. You complain and call for change because your team was on the short end of 2 calls at the end of the game... but nevermind the calls or non-calls that went in your favor (that Cooper non-TD was brutal) and nevermind the ones that happen in the other 58 minutes of football. The Colts got screwed, so there's a problem lol. Win some, lose some.

Going back to the Cooper call, I can understand an official missing a penalty or making a judgement that I don't agree with but when officials start seeing things that didn't happen that is cause for alarm. Cooper wasn't within a foot of the sideline-- that was a horrendous mistake that couldn't have been overturned by review. That official needs glasses.

It's tough to see in the video but if the defender makes contact with Cooper while also making contact out of bounds then I'm pretty sure that makes Cooper out of bounds as well. Maybe that's what the ref saw here.

 

[raidersraidersraiders]

The idea that things would be left to chance with billions of dollars on the line is just hilarious. Of course the NFL owners and investors have their officials steering games one way or another. There's just too much money at stake to do it any other way.

 

[Steelers4Life]

It's the truth. You complain and call for change because your team was on the short end of 2 calls at the end of the game... but nevermind the calls or non-calls that went in your favor (that Cooper non-TD was brutal) and nevermind the ones that happen in the other 58 minutes of football. The Colts got screwed, so there's a problem lol. Win some, lose some.

Going back to the Cooper call, I can understand an official missing a penalty or making a judgement that I don't agree with but when officials start seeing things that didn't happen that is cause for alarm. Cooper wasn't within a foot of the sideline-- that was a horrendous mistake that couldn't have been overturned by review. That official needs glasses.

It's tough to see in the video but if the defender makes contact with Cooper while also making contact out of bounds then I'm pretty sure that makes Cooper out of bounds as well. Maybe that's what the ref saw here.

No, that doesn't make someone out of bounds. A defender touching out of bounds while touching a runner or receiver doesn't make the runner or receiver out of bounds at all.

That would be hilarious though. I imagine a running back taking off down the sideline and the defensive back stands with one foot out of bounds and turns it into a game of tag.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

Johnny U cries literally every week in here....like most fans will every week if on the wrong side.....he even goes looking for times when teams like KC "seem to always be on the right side"....(Jets game/etc) .....calls will be missed every week in darn near every game....some teams are talented enough to overcome it....sometimes not.....like KC wasn't good enough last year to overcome it when they were on the wrong side at INDY......**** happens....be better....make more plays.....first thing most Chiefs said was they played like crap and shouldn't have been in that position for the Jones call to "cost" them....don't be in a position were a call "in the last two minutes" that doesn't go your way "costs" you....score more...give up less...be better....

Listen to yourself. You come across as an a-hole and a holier than thou one at that.

I apologize....I really do...not trying to be an a-hole....but the complaining about officials every week just gets old...and then it turns into conspiracy theories and other BS....it's just way over the top...and sorry for pointing you out, it could be my imagination but you seem to be one of the ones leading the charge every week....and yeah I have been reffing football and other sports since 1993 so I know what its like to be on the dark side....obviously not at the highest level....so I do get defensive when I see these guys/girls being attacked all the time, when I truly believe they are trying to do the best they can....there will be more questionable calls this weekend and the weekend after that and so on.....we should just pin a "NFL Officials Suck/Conspiracy Theory/Hold Them Accountable" thread....again my apologies....I'll be quiet until Monday when it all starts up again...

 

[JohnnyU]

Johnny U cries literally every week in here....like most fans will every week if on the wrong side.....he even goes looking for times when teams like KC "seem to always be on the right side"....(Jets game/etc) .....calls will be missed every week in darn near every game....some teams are talented enough to overcome it....sometimes not.....like KC wasn't good enough last year to overcome it when they were on the wrong side at INDY......**** happens....be better....make more plays.....first thing most Chiefs said was they played like crap and shouldn't have been in that position for the Jones call to "cost" them....don't be in a position were a call "in the last two minutes" that doesn't go your way "costs" you....score more...give up less...be better....

Listen to yourself. You come across as an a-hole and a holier than thou one at that.

I apologize....I really do...not trying to be an a-hole....but the complaining about officials every week just gets old...and then it turns into conspiracy theories and other BS....it's just way over the top...and sorry for pointing you out, it could be my imagination but you seem to be one of the ones leading the charge every week....and yeah I have been reffing football and other sports since 1993 so I know what its like to be on the dark side....obviously not at the highest level....so I do get defensive when I see these guys/girls being attacked all the time, when I truly believe they are trying to do the best they can....there will be more questionable calls this weekend and the weekend after that and so on.....we should just pin a "NFL Officials Suck/Conspiracy Theory/Hold Them Accountable" thread....again my apologies....I'll be quiet until Monday when it all starts up again...

That's not to say they shouldn't make changes. I suggested a sky judge and to review penalties, if only in the last two minutes, as to not prolong games too much. To just say they get some right and some wrong and leave it as is, is not the answer IMO. Too much money is at stake now and if they leave things as is I wouldn't be surprised if lawsuits arise and I sure don't want a legislative body to start dictating what the NFL must do. The NFL needs to roll up their sleaves and make some changes and not let the issue with 2019 pass interference debacle be the reason they just don't do anything. Again, that is just my opinion and nothing else.

 

[GregR]

What is what happened to the Colts happened in the Super Bowl? With the amount of money being bet on football and how much is at stake, why not do something now before it happens on the biggest stage?

Why, oh why doesn't someone think about the gamblers!?!?

 

[Galileo]

It's the truth. You complain and call for change because your team was on the short end of 2 calls at the end of the game... but nevermind the calls or non-calls that went in your favor (that Cooper non-TD was brutal) and nevermind the ones that happen in the other 58 minutes of football. The Colts got screwed, so there's a problem lol. Win some, lose some.

Going back to the Cooper call, I can understand an official missing a penalty or making a judgement that I don't agree with but when officials start seeing things that didn't happen that is cause for alarm. Cooper wasn't within a foot of the sideline-- that was a horrendous mistake that couldn't have been overturned by review. That official needs glasses.

I agree that this was a horrendously blown call, but once it is made, what could be done about it even if there was some system in place to overturn it? Are you going to award Cooper a TD? There is no guarantee he makes it to the end zone. Do you give the team an extra 5, 10, 15 yds?? Play stopped. You can't change that after the fact. Any potential solution on something like this has to avoid the call being made in the first place which may be possible with technology, but it can't be in the form of review.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Find me better officials. Where will you find them? These are the top 1%. Even the checkboxes are good officials.
Most of these guys put full time hours in during the season and close to it in the off season. These officials love the sport of football.
They have no bias and are not out to get your team.

Who cares? Just make them held accountable and not just penalized by leaving them out of the playoffs. Also make it public. Players are fined and it is very public.

Are players fined for missing a block, holding, or false start?
Players are fined for uniform violations, dangerous plays, and off field items.

These were collective bargained. Same with the officials, it is in their contract.
Would you feel better knowing Dyrol got 5 demerits for missing a DPI, or a spot?

I want accountability

no...you want accountability that fits your agenda....these guys are held accountable behind the scenes like most people at their jobs....in fact they are probably held more accountable than anybody at their jobs....they are literally graded on every single play of every single game even if they may not have been directly involved in it.....they get reprimanded, downgraded, etc. based on performance every week....promoted/demoted/playoffs/no playoffs...I can tell you are basically asking that they get tarred and feathered in some type of public forum.....just not gonna happen.....just like you and me at our jobs...

I thought it was part of the last agreement that they could not be reprimanded or downgraded on a week to week basis, only annually. If I recall that was one of the big sticking points that the NFL caved on, in addition to not requiring it to be a full-time position.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

What is what happened to the Colts happened in the Super Bowl? With the amount of money being bet on football and how much is at stake, why not do something now before it happens on the biggest stage?

Why, oh why doesn't someone think about the gamblers!?!?

The NFL makes a lot of rules to protect gambling. It's the main reason they've tightened down so much on injury designations over the last 5-10 years.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

Find me better officials. Where will you find them? These are the top 1%. Even the checkboxes are good officials.
Most of these guys put full time hours in during the season and close to it in the off season. These officials love the sport of football.
They have no bias and are not out to get your team.

Who cares? Just make them held accountable and not just penalized by leaving them out of the playoffs. Also make it public. Players are fined and it is very public.

Are players fined for missing a block, holding, or false start?
Players are fined for uniform violations, dangerous plays, and off field items.

These were collective bargained. Same with the officials, it is in their contract.
Would you feel better knowing Dyrol got 5 demerits for missing a DPI, or a spot?

I want accountability

no...you want accountability that fits your agenda....these guys are held accountable behind the scenes like most people at their jobs....in fact they are probably held more accountable than anybody at their jobs....they are literally graded on every single play of every single game even if they may not have been directly involved in it.....they get reprimanded, downgraded, etc. based on performance every week....promoted/demoted/playoffs/no playoffs...I can tell you are basically asking that they get tarred and feathered in some type of public forum.....just not gonna happen.....just like you and me at our jobs...

I thought it was part of the last agreement that they could not be reprimanded or downgraded on a week to week basis, only annually. If I recall that was one of the big sticking points that the NFL caved on, in addition to not requiring it to be a full-time position.

full transparency....I do not know the specific language....but I do know they are "graded/critiqued" on almost every play....for positioning, etc....if you search the interwebs, you can find videos of Staratore and the boys after games back in the day and how things shake out....and how nervous they get about the "game reports" they are going to be receiving and how they hope they don't have too many "yellow or red plays"....or something like that.....meaning plays they might have kicked, misjudged, been out of position on, didn't focus on their primary coverage area, etc...so if you don't want to call it "reprimanded or downgraded", you can call it "being evaluated" or whatever....it's really semantics....but it happens...usually almost immediately like being sent something for them to review on their flights home, etc....as far as what happens if you screw up too many times and games being taken away or you being replaced for awhile or eventually possibly getting "fired" ....I don't know how that is handled, but I'm sure if you keep ****ting the bed something happens....just won't be very public I assume...

 

[Dickies]

What is what happened to the Colts happened in the Super Bowl? With the amount of money being bet on football and how much is at stake, why not do something now before it happens on the biggest stage?

Why, oh why doesn't someone think about the gamblers!?!?

The NFL makes a lot of rules to protect gambling. It's the main reason they've tightened down so much on injury designations over the last 5-10 years.

I think it was on Reddit that there was a thread of people calling the Falcons HC a clueless idiot over the whole Bijan Robinson illness (lack of) designation and that he should be beholden to fantasy football players and Vegas bettors. Meanwhile his team won the game and they are sitting in 1st place. People are going insane.

 

[JohnnyU]

What is what happened to the Colts happened in the Super Bowl? With the amount of money being bet on football and how much is at stake, why not do something now before it happens on the biggest stage?

Why, oh why doesn't someone think about the gamblers!?!?

The NFL makes a lot of rules to protect gambling. It's the main reason they've tightened down so much on injury designations over the last 5-10 years.

I think it was on Reddit that there was a thread of people calling the Falcons HC a clueless idiot over the whole Bijan Robinson illness (lack of) designation and that he should be beholden to fantasy football players and Vegas bettors. Meanwhile his team won the game and they are sitting in 1st place. People are going insane.

What does one have to do with the other?