Colts - Saints (1 Viewer)

[twitch]

Even though he's reportedly a jerk, Bill Pollian is the best GM in football. He built a great Buffalo team when he was in Buffalo and he has built a great team in Indianapolis. Their drafts are not only second to none, but they do a tremendous job of keeping their key players. Remember when everyone freaked out about Manning's contract and said that since they gave Harrison money they'd never be able to keep Wayne? And then everyone was up in arms because they didn't have the money to keep James? And then everyone said that their defense would surely suffer due to their money on offense? And then everyone said that THIS year their defense would be in a lot of trouble because they lost Cato June?

Pollian just doesn't seem to get his due for some reason. Everyone is slobbering all over AJ Smith in San Diego. And he's done a nice job. But they haven't won jack.

Thing is, Smith learned from Butler who learned from Polian.Polian took the Bills to 4 super bowls, led the Panthers to one pretty quickly for an expansion team, and has the Colts as the best team in the NFL now. He is the best GM in football easily.

While Im not going to nessecarily argue against him being the best at what he does, he also has Manning at QB. And Harrison at receiver for that matter...who he didnt draft. But you cant understate how much of a luxury it is having that fella Manning leading the team. And noone else has him but Polian.

Polian drafted Manning when it was an actual debate over who to draft, so he has to get credit for drafting him.

I absolutely give credit where credit is due. But traveling back 10 years in time and re-visiting the Leaf/Manning debate, I recall that personally as the no-brainer of no-brainers. I didnt think for a second that Leaf should have been the top pick. I didnt think he'd be a complete and total bust, but Manning as #1 over Leaf was, imo, a no-brainer. Im sure many others felt the same way. But again, Polian did draft him, so he of course realized his potential value.

I dont know who made the comment about him leading Carolina to a Superbowl, but that didnt happen. That expansion Carolina team started 7-9 their 1st year, 12-4 their 2nd season and reached the NFC Championship game, but did not get to the big game. Kerry Collins was the high QB draft pick on that team. Not horrible, but not exactly Peyton Manning. But because most of the players on that team chosen thru the expansion draft were aged veterans built for a short run, Carolina completely fell apart after that season and it took years for them to recover. So, Im not going to factor a single good year by Carolina into his resume.

But again, Im not arguing against Polian being great at what he does. Im just recognizing the greatness of Peyton Manning as a HUGE factor.

 

[fatboyj711]

I guess that's the problem. Instead of letting talent on the field affect your rankings - you rank and then refuse to allow evidence to change your mind.I'm certain if Addai has one bad game this season, but dominates the rest, you'll still be here next year saying he has no talent.

Hey switz,Sorry I made you feel that way. It's really not my MO. In fact, it's everything I'm against in football and fantasy football analysis. One post where we disagree and you're ready to paint me a Sean Salisbury. Sheesh! My "rankings" are constantly in flux, but I like a fair number of RBs more than Addai, especially in terms of the talent and running style they bring with them. One game against that "defense" doesn't change it for me. I love learning new things about teams and players -- it's a big part of the joy of FF to me. But I don't overreact, especially when the Colts put up 41 and Addai only snared 1 TD and 23 carries. I wouldn't be surprised if this game fell out of the top 5 RB games for the week.To some of your points:I call a "hop" what happens when you bounce off the ground with two feet and land on two feet. He does that plenty in this game. He also took at least a half dozen really hard hits by my count, much harder than RBs who run lower to the ground. I guess we _were_ watching a different game if you didn't see that, too.And since I like Reggie Bush et al, it's hard to say I hate "slashers" as you suggest. Rather, I don't see Addai as a slasher. He truly does look like he bounces and hops. I've never seen a RB run his way. Maybe that means I'll be totally surprised by it's effectiveness, but given his slight frame and the way it exposes him, I don't think so (thus the surprise I suppose!). His style doesn't make many people miss IMHO, it really just seems to waste steps. I'm pretty shocked you would say he runs just like Edge.I think it's possible to not like a guy while not being a "hater." This was one game. He ran the same frustrating way he always has. And as I said, I think he could and should have done even more -- seldom do you get the blowout score + terrible D paradise, and usually when you do, your RB goes off. Addai may not even be top 5 *this week* much less this year. But I promise, if Addai proves me wrong this year by staying healthy and racking up numbers, I'll shout it from the rooftops. And I'll never doubt hopscotch again.

it's called a jump cut and many of the top rbs in the league use this technique... Sjax will actually use this move more times in a game than addai did last night... fyi, in order for this move to be effective, the rb must be able to quickly burst upfield after making the cut, and i think addai more than demonstrated this ability last night...i agree addai is not a slasher... he's more of a 1 cut, upfield runner, much like edge later in his career in indy (btw, addai will never be able to run like the younger, pre-injury edge)... i'm not sure how you can respect bush's game and not addai's, when bush is the one hesitating instead of making decisive move upfield... there were several plays when he tried 2,3,4,5 juke moves to evade a single defender instead of gaining the needed yard or 2 to make the first down...

 

[AnonymousBob]

I learned owners of Peyton/Harrison/Wayne/Addai won't be happy when the Colts sit their starters come week 14 after locking up homefield advantage.

 

[BroadwayG]

Whatever you decide to do, the sooner the better, that's for sure.

 

[jcjets]

I learned nothing new from last nights game. I think Buffalo shut-out the Patriots in week 1 the year the Pats won the superbowl. didn't Dallas start out 0-2 one year they won the superbowl?

So to summarize from week to week anything can happen. The Colts want to pass and they do it well. The Saints want to run, no wait wait pass, no wait run...That's great for balance, but not great when you cannot do either one well. Maybe they should want to block better and throw to the their own team

 

[AnonymousBob]

I learned nothing new from last nights game. I think Buffalo shut-out the Patriots in week 1 the year the Pats won the superbowl. didn't Dallas start out 0-2 one year they won the superbowl?

It is a tad too early to be coming to any concrete conclusions but it's silly to not take note of what happened. IIRC, the Cowboys started 0-2 without Emmitt...

 

[anguskahn]

I learned nothing new from last nights game. I think Buffalo shut-out the Patriots in week 1 the year the Pats won the superbowl. didn't Dallas start out 0-2 one year they won the superbowl?So to summarize from week to week anything can happen. The Colts want to pass and they do it well. The Saints want to run, no wait wait pass, no wait run...That's great for balance, but not great when you cannot do either one well. Maybe they should want to block better and throw to the their own team

Yes Dallas started out 0-2 when they won their 2nd superbowl but Emmit Smith was holding out. Its difficult to win when the NFLs all time leading rusher while in the peak of his prime is holding out waiting for a new contract.

 

[David Yudkin]

I learned owners of Peyton/Harrison/Wayne/Addai won't be happy when the Colts sit their starters come week 14 after locking up homefield advantage.

I can't see this happening. They would be 13-0 at that point (assuming they could go undefeated that long). There are other teams in the AFC as good or better than the Colts, and the Colts will have to play teams that are better than the Saints.

 

[John Mamula]

bush had games like this last year. i am sticking to my projections that he will be the #8-9 RB in PPR and #15 in non PPR.
Wayne will overtake Harrison like I projected (a younger Harrison would have scored that 2nd TD).
you don't take QBs early like Brees, when Qbs in the 10th round will outperform him.
Eric Johnson's potential to be the TE he was in SF is still there.
people overreact after week 1.

 

[Family Matters]

4. Addai didn't do anything special but he sure did rack up yds and TD tonight.

This is correct.Addai did fine, but with the terrible LB play of the Saints, anything less than 100 on 23 carries would have been a shocker. Addai did just fine, don't get me wrong, but this game doesn't answer the main questions. We'll know more in about 7-8 games; that's when we'll learn if he's still running strong midway through the season and has churned out yards against tough Ds.

One thing I do know: saying he's arrived and will be fine all year off a game when New Orleans D looked like it barely got off the bus is too premature. He jumps and dances too much, and definitely runs too high, for me to believe he's a lock to keep this up all year. Injury or wear and tear could easily slow him down.

Easy to love him tonight, but I'd be selling high if I had him.

So last year's 16 regular season games, the playoffs and Super Bowl didn't do it for you? The off-season moves by the Colts to make him their guy didn't suggest they believe in him? You're still not sure he's good? I think there's plenty of evidence if you just look a little. Addai is a very good RB in a great system.

 

[kensat30]

Drew Brees will be a massive bust if he continues to dink and dunk.

 

[angman]

Duece needs about 15-20 carries a game for NO to be successful. They got away from him early in the third quarter and things went downhill from there. As many have already touched upon in this thread, they need balance to open up the rest of the playbook for their passing attack and gadget plays.

Great game by the Colts however, sending a message to the rest of the league.

 

[kensat30]

bush had games like this last year. i am sticking to my projections that he will be the #8-9 RB in PPR and #15 in non PPR.

Why would you rank a RB that scores less than 7 or 8 points in half his games as a top15 RB is beyond me. That's what he did last year. That's the pattern that he has started this year. Stick to your projections all you like, but year end stats are not going to stop week to week inconsistency. Bush is not a good fantasy RB to own in head to head non-PPR leagues IMO. 200 yards and 4 TDs in one game only nets you one win..

 

[yinzer]

Oh, and the Colts only have 4 players on their team that have played for other NFL teams, which is unheard of and is a testament of their drafting team..........simply outstanding.

How about the Steelers?The only guys that we have starting that we didn't draft are Sean Mahan ©, James Farrior (MLB), and Ryan Clark (FS).I believe that's less than the Colts.And if you want to get technical and count FWP (undrafted), or count backups (Davenport, Cedrick Wilson) its still only 6 guys

 

[Ghost Rider]

It is worth nothing, that as good as he was last year, in 9 of the Saints 16 games, Brees had either 1 or 0 touchdown pass(es). Just some food for thought.

 

[John Mamula]

bush had games like this last year. i am sticking to my projections that he will be the #8-9 RB in PPR and #15 in non PPR.

Why would you rank a RB that scores less than 7 or 8 points in half his games as a top15 RB is beyond me. That's what he did last year. That's the pattern that he has started this year. Stick to your projections all you like, but year end stats are not going to stop week to week inconsistency. Bush is not a good fantasy RB to own in head to head non-PPR leagues IMO. 200 yards and 4 TDs in one game only nets you one win..

because that is where he ended up being ranked last year?

you can't predict consistancy...it is a myth.

 

[saintfool]

Duece needs about 15-20 carries a game for NO to be successful. They got away from him early in the third quarter and things went downhill from there. As many have already touched upon in this thread, they need balance to open up the rest of the playbook for their passing attack and gadget plays.Great game by the Colts however, sending a message to the rest of the league.

In a way, this was the same problem the Saints had in the NFC championship game versus the Bears. The Saints played them well in the first half before getting behind in the second. Part of the problem was they stopped running Deuce. I think he had only a handful of carries for the game. Payton said after that game, among other things, he realized he gave up on Deuce too soon. Ask any Saints fan and they'll tell you that Deuce is every bit as important as Brees to a winning gameplan.

 

[stevegamer]

I learned I might need to get Kenton Keith to handcuff Addai.

I learned that Jason David sucks in man coverage. Apparently Peyton knew that seeing him in practice every day.

I learned the Colts have even more home-grown talent than I thought.

I validated my thought that Eric Johnson could have games like I expected which resembled his SF days.

I validated my thoughts that Keiaho & Jackson could put up points as IDP on the Colts.

Everything else was pretty much extensions of what was known.

 

[switz]

Even though he's reportedly a jerk, Bill Pollian is the best GM in football. He built a great Buffalo team when he was in Buffalo and he has built a great team in Indianapolis. Their drafts are not only second to none, but they do a tremendous job of keeping their key players. Remember when everyone freaked out about Manning's contract and said that since they gave Harrison money they'd never be able to keep Wayne? And then everyone was up in arms because they didn't have the money to keep James? And then everyone said that their defense would surely suffer due to their money on offense? And then everyone said that THIS year their defense would be in a lot of trouble because they lost Cato June?

Pollian just doesn't seem to get his due for some reason. Everyone is slobbering all over AJ Smith in San Diego. And he's done a nice job. But they haven't won jack.

Thing is, Smith learned from Butler who learned from Polian.Polian took the Bills to 4 super bowls, led the Panthers to one pretty quickly for an expansion team, and has the Colts as the best team in the NFL now. He is the best GM in football easily.

While Im not going to nessecarily argue against him being the best at what he does, he also has Manning at QB. And Harrison at receiver for that matter...who he didnt draft. But you cant understate how much of a luxury it is having that fella Manning leading the team. And noone else has him but Polian.

Polian drafted Manning when it was an actual debate over who to draft, so he has to get credit for drafting him.

I absolutely give credit where credit is due. But traveling back 10 years in time and re-visiting the Leaf/Manning debate, I recall that personally as the no-brainer of no-brainers. I didnt think for a second that Leaf should have been the top pick. I didnt think he'd be a complete and total bust, but Manning as #1 over Leaf was, imo, a no-brainer. Im sure many others felt the same way. But again, Polian did draft him, so he of course realized his potential value.

I dont know who made the comment about him leading Carolina to a Superbowl, but that didnt happen. That expansion Carolina team started 7-9 their 1st year, 12-4 their 2nd season and reached the NFC Championship game, but did not get to the big game. Kerry Collins was the high QB draft pick on that team. Not horrible, but not exactly Peyton Manning. But because most of the players on that team chosen thru the expansion draft were aged veterans built for a short run, Carolina completely fell apart after that season and it took years for them to recover. So, Im not going to factor a single good year by Carolina into his resume.

But again, Im not arguing against Polian being great at what he does. Im just recognizing the greatness of Peyton Manning as a HUGE factor.

Meant playoffs... though they did eventually make a Super Bowl, didn't they?Anyway, Polian built that team quick and then left just as quickly. Still his work was impressive.

 

[switz]

Oh, and the Colts only have 4 players on their team that have played for other NFL teams, which is unheard of and is a testament of their drafting team..........simply outstanding.

How about the Steelers?The only guys that we have starting that we didn't draft are Sean Mahan ©, James Farrior (MLB), and Ryan Clark (FS).

I believe that's less than the Colts.

And if you want to get technical and count FWP (undrafted), or count backups (Davenport, Cedrick Wilson) its still only 6 guys

Difference....

 

[switz]

I guess that's the problem. Instead of letting talent on the field affect your rankings - you rank and then refuse to allow evidence to change your mind.I'm certain if Addai has one bad game this season, but dominates the rest, you'll still be here next year saying he has no talent.

Hey switz,Sorry I made you feel that way. It's really not my MO. In fact, it's everything I'm against in football and fantasy football analysis. One post where we disagree and you're ready to paint me a Sean Salisbury. Sheesh! :XMy "rankings" are constantly in flux, but I like a fair number of RBs more than Addai, especially in terms of the talent and running style they bring with them. One game against that "defense" doesn't change it for me. I love learning new things about teams and players -- it's a big part of the joy of FF to me. But I don't overreact, especially when the Colts put up 41 and Addai only snared 1 TD and 23 carries. I wouldn't be surprised if this game fell out of the top 5 RB games for the week.To some of your points:I call a "hop" what happens when you bounce off the ground with two feet and land on two feet. He does that plenty in this game. He also took at least a half dozen really hard hits by my count, much harder than RBs who run lower to the ground. I guess we _were_ watching a different game if you didn't see that, too.And since I like Reggie Bush et al, it's hard to say I hate "slashers" as you suggest. Rather, I don't see Addai as a slasher. He truly does look like he bounces and hops. I've never seen a RB run his way. Maybe that means I'll be totally surprised by it's effectiveness, but given his slight frame and the way it exposes him, I don't think so (thus the surprise I suppose!). His style doesn't make many people miss IMHO, it really just seems to waste steps. I'm pretty shocked you would say he runs just like Edge.I think it's possible to not like a guy while not being a "hater." This was one game. He ran the same frustrating way he always has. And as I said, I think he could and should have done even more -- seldom do you get the blowout score + terrible D paradise, and usually when you do, your RB goes off. Addai may not even be top 5 *this week* much less this year. But I promise, if Addai proves me wrong this year by staying healthy and racking up numbers, I'll shout it from the rooftops. And I'll never doubt hopscotch again.

it's called a jump cut and many of the top rbs in the league use this technique... Sjax will actually use this move more times in a game than addai did last night... fyi, in order for this move to be effective, the rb must be able to quickly burst upfield after making the cut, and i think addai more than demonstrated this ability last night...i agree addai is not a slasher... he's more of a 1 cut, upfield runner, much like edge later in his career in indy (btw, addai will never be able to run like the younger, pre-injury edge)... i'm not sure how you can respect bush's game and not addai's, when bush is the one hesitating instead of making decisive move upfield... there were several plays when he tried 2,3,4,5 juke moves to evade a single defender instead of gaining the needed yard or 2 to make the first down...

When I see a guy cut sideways through a whole, I consider that a slash. Maybe that differs from others interpretations. Addai does not get down as low as most slashing style RBs but his method is the same, sidestep, jump cut, small cuts and explode. Of note, I don't really consider Barry or Reggie slashers. They are "hard cut" runners. But they still try to avoid contact instead of power over it.Either way, I'm just still surprised people have issues with Addai, or try to detract from his success IMO because he's a Colt. He's a great runner, excellent blocker, great receiver, all-around a very skilled back.

 

[Woz]

That everyone reacts after one week and I'm hoping my leaguemates are willing to give up on Bush and Brees since I'd drop them each maybe a spot or two in my rankings but that's it.

It's one game. It was bad. Relax.

 

[cstruk]

I learned that despite last year's scoring results that Brees is really not that close to P. Manning.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

4. Addai didn't do anything special but he sure did rack up yds and TD tonight.

This is correct.Addai did fine, but with the terrible LB play of the Saints, anything less than 100 on 23 carries would have been a shocker. Addai did just fine, don't get me wrong, but this game doesn't answer the main questions. We'll know more in about 7-8 games; that's when we'll learn if he's still running strong midway through the season and has churned out yards against tough Ds.

One thing I do know: saying he's arrived and will be fine all year off a game when New Orleans D looked like it barely got off the bus is too premature. He jumps and dances too much, and definitely runs too high, for me to believe he's a lock to keep this up all year. Injury or wear and tear could easily slow him down.

Easy to love him tonight, but I'd be selling high if I had him.

WOW!

Some people just baffle me.

Apologies if I was unclear. What about my thoughts didn't make sense? Or do you just disagree with my analysis of his game?To me, Addai isn't very good. *gasp* I know, I know. It's asking for a beating to admit this. And I do think if he stays healthy and energetic all year, he'll be a very good fantasy RB b/c of his situation. But I honestly don't like how he plays.

Watch replays of *any* run and check how many steps he wastes hopping and bouncing, both behind the line and in space. Not only that, but he stays so upright that he takes monster hits on routine plays regularly. For a guy who's never carried the load, even in college, this would be alarming to me if I owned him. I feel most starting RBs in the league would have done more with the chances Addai had last night. In other words, he had a big night, and I think most guys would've had a HUGE night. And on top of that, we will only know if Addai can justify his ADP later this season. If he has a great 6 weeks and wears down or breaks down, this game will be forgotten.

I don't like runners who treat the game like it was hopscotch, even when they put up good numbers against a team that barely came to play. I can only hope this doesn't make me the LHUCKS of Joe Addai.

Meanwhile, given that I had Addai ranked lower than your average bear, I would happily trade him for a RB I like more than him anyway (eeeeeven Reggie Bush) and a WR1. Blasphemy now, but we'll see by the end of the season.

I agree with Marc and Bloom most of the time and they certainly have more experience scouting RBs than I do, but I disagree on Addai. I don't think he's a superstar, but I think he's right below that level talent-wise. As for the "hopping", in my opinion there are 3 reasons why a RB hops. The first is due to a flaw in his mechanics for making cuts. This is not that much unlike the mechanical flaws that other players have, like a QB's arm motion (see Young, Vince) or even in other sports, like a pitcher in baseball. The running back takes a hop step when he tries to make a move instead of making a smooth cut. This is not a good thing because it slows down the cut, but I think it's generally something that can be coached out of a player.

The second reason for a hop is indecisiveness. This is probably the worst reason to hop. The running back is slow making a decision on where to cut, or worse, timid about making that cut because of a defender coming, so he makes a little hop step instead of making a smooth cut. This may be able to be coached out, but it's a bad sign.

The third reason to hop, and the reason that I mostly saw Addai hopping Thursday night, was to set up his moves. I think that sometimes people think that a running back should be running full steam ahead straight down the field all the time. That's silly. Good backs know that they need to let blocks develop and set up defenders. One way to do that is to make a little hop step. It slows them down to allow that block to happen, but it is better than coming to a complete stop because they don't lose all their momentum. I saw Addai doing this a lot on Thursday night as he was running wide parallel to the line of scrimmage. He hopped to let a block be made or to let a defender commit and then he cut back up field.

Obviously there can many different interpretations of why a RB hops, but when I have watched Addai, I think it mostly looks like he does it as a move to set up defenders and get more yards. And that certainly worked Thursday night.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

4. Addai didn't do anything special but he sure did rack up yds and TD tonight.

This is correct.Addai did fine, but with the terrible LB play of the Saints, anything less than 100 on 23 carries would have been a shocker. Addai did just fine, don't get me wrong, but this game doesn't answer the main questions. We'll know more in about 7-8 games; that's when we'll learn if he's still running strong midway through the season and has churned out yards against tough Ds.

One thing I do know: saying he's arrived and will be fine all year off a game when New Orleans D looked like it barely got off the bus is too premature. He jumps and dances too much, and definitely runs too high, for me to believe he's a lock to keep this up all year. Injury or wear and tear could easily slow him down.

Easy to love him tonight, but I'd be selling high if I had him.

WOW!

Some people just baffle me.

Apologies if I was unclear. What about my thoughts didn't make sense? Or do you just disagree with my analysis of his game?To me, Addai isn't very good. *gasp* I know, I know. It's asking for a beating to admit this. And I do think if he stays healthy and energetic all year, he'll be a very good fantasy RB b/c of his situation. But I honestly don't like how he plays.

Watch replays of *any* run and check how many steps he wastes hopping and bouncing, both behind the line and in space. Not only that, but he stays so upright that he takes monster hits on routine plays regularly. For a guy who's never carried the load, even in college, this would be alarming to me if I owned him. I feel most starting RBs in the league would have done more with the chances Addai had last night. In other words, he had a big night, and I think most guys would've had a HUGE night. And on top of that, we will only know if Addai can justify his ADP later this season. If he has a great 6 weeks and wears down or breaks down, this game will be forgotten.

I don't like runners who treat the game like it was hopscotch, even when they put up good numbers against a team that barely came to play. I can only hope this doesn't make me the LHUCKS of Joe Addai.

Meanwhile, given that I had Addai ranked lower than your average bear, I would happily trade him for a RB I like more than him anyway (eeeeeven Reggie Bush) and a WR1. Blasphemy now, but we'll see by the end of the season.

I agree with Marc and Bloom most of the time and they certainly have more experience scouting RBs than I do, but I disagree on Addai. I don't think he's a superstar, but I think he's right below that level talent-wise. As for the "hopping", in my opinion there are 3 reasons why a RB hops. The first is due to a flaw in his mechanics for making cuts. This is not that much unlike the mechanical flaws that other players have, like a QB's arm motion (see Young, Vince) or even in other sports, like a pitcher in baseball. The running back takes a hop step when he tries to make a move instead of making a smooth cut. This is not a good thing because it slows down the cut, but I think it's generally something that can be coached out of a player.

The second reason for a hop is indecisiveness. This is probably the worst reason to hop. The running back is slow making a decision on where to cut, or worse, timid about making that cut because of a defender coming, so he makes a little hop step instead of making a smooth cut. This may be able to be coached out, but it's a bad sign.

The third reason to hop, and the reason that I mostly saw Addai hopping Thursday night, was to set up his moves. I think that sometimes people think that a running back should be running full steam ahead straight down the field all the time. That's silly. Good backs know that they need to let blocks develop and set up defenders. One way to do that is to make a little hop step. It slows them down to allow that block to happen, but it is better than coming to a complete stop because they don't lose all their momentum. I saw Addai doing this a lot on Thursday night as he was running wide parallel to the line of scrimmage. He hopped to let a block be made or to let a defender commit and then he cut back up field.

Obviously there can many different interpretations of why a RB hops, but when I have watched Addai, I think it mostly looks like he does it as a move to set up defenders and get more yards. And that certainly worked Thursday night.

This is a good breakdown and I definitely agree with your fundamental points. Addai does a lot of hopping to let holes open, but I see some hops that are almost a tic - rarely if ever do you see Addai just "running full steam ahead straight down the field" - I agree that not every run calls for a full head of steam, but I want to see Addai at least do that sometimes - the hop steps give away yards when holes are closing, and they keep him from building up power and momentum. It still ends up being a very effective style in that offense, so I am probably a little too harsh on Addai when it comes to bottom line productivity.

 

[Family Matters]

Interesting discussion trying to determine if Addai is a good RB or not. Evaluating talent in advance of their NFL careers (say RB's coming out of college) is something that always leaves us with some questions wondering. But once they are in the NFL and played 17 regualr season games, a few playoff games and a Super Bowl, then I guess at the end of the day you can always look how well he did and then decide. Just a thought.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

4. Addai didn't do anything special but he sure did rack up yds and TD tonight.

This is correct.Addai did fine, but with the terrible LB play of the Saints, anything less than 100 on 23 carries would have been a shocker. Addai did just fine, don't get me wrong, but this game doesn't answer the main questions. We'll know more in about 7-8 games; that's when we'll learn if he's still running strong midway through the season and has churned out yards against tough Ds.

One thing I do know: saying he's arrived and will be fine all year off a game when New Orleans D looked like it barely got off the bus is too premature. He jumps and dances too much, and definitely runs too high, for me to believe he's a lock to keep this up all year. Injury or wear and tear could easily slow him down.

Easy to love him tonight, but I'd be selling high if I had him.

WOW!

Some people just baffle me.

Apologies if I was unclear. What about my thoughts didn't make sense? Or do you just disagree with my analysis of his game?To me, Addai isn't very good. *gasp* I know, I know. It's asking for a beating to admit this. And I do think if he stays healthy and energetic all year, he'll be a very good fantasy RB b/c of his situation. But I honestly don't like how he plays.

Watch replays of *any* run and check how many steps he wastes hopping and bouncing, both behind the line and in space. Not only that, but he stays so upright that he takes monster hits on routine plays regularly. For a guy who's never carried the load, even in college, this would be alarming to me if I owned him. I feel most starting RBs in the league would have done more with the chances Addai had last night. In other words, he had a big night, and I think most guys would've had a HUGE night. And on top of that, we will only know if Addai can justify his ADP later this season. If he has a great 6 weeks and wears down or breaks down, this game will be forgotten.

I don't like runners who treat the game like it was hopscotch, even when they put up good numbers against a team that barely came to play. I can only hope this doesn't make me the LHUCKS of Joe Addai.

Meanwhile, given that I had Addai ranked lower than your average bear, I would happily trade him for a RB I like more than him anyway (eeeeeven Reggie Bush) and a WR1. Blasphemy now, but we'll see by the end of the season.

I agree with Marc and Bloom most of the time and they certainly have more experience scouting RBs than I do, but I disagree on Addai. I don't think he's a superstar, but I think he's right below that level talent-wise. As for the "hopping", in my opinion there are 3 reasons why a RB hops. The first is due to a flaw in his mechanics for making cuts. This is not that much unlike the mechanical flaws that other players have, like a QB's arm motion (see Young, Vince) or even in other sports, like a pitcher in baseball. The running back takes a hop step when he tries to make a move instead of making a smooth cut. This is not a good thing because it slows down the cut, but I think it's generally something that can be coached out of a player.

The second reason for a hop is indecisiveness. This is probably the worst reason to hop. The running back is slow making a decision on where to cut, or worse, timid about making that cut because of a defender coming, so he makes a little hop step instead of making a smooth cut. This may be able to be coached out, but it's a bad sign.

The third reason to hop, and the reason that I mostly saw Addai hopping Thursday night, was to set up his moves. I think that sometimes people think that a running back should be running full steam ahead straight down the field all the time. That's silly. Good backs know that they need to let blocks develop and set up defenders. One way to do that is to make a little hop step. It slows them down to allow that block to happen, but it is better than coming to a complete stop because they don't lose all their momentum. I saw Addai doing this a lot on Thursday night as he was running wide parallel to the line of scrimmage. He hopped to let a block be made or to let a defender commit and then he cut back up field.

Obviously there can many different interpretations of why a RB hops, but when I have watched Addai, I think it mostly looks like he does it as a move to set up defenders and get more yards. And that certainly worked Thursday night.

This is a good breakdown and I definitely agree with your fundamental points. Addai does a lot of hopping to let holes open, but I see some hops that are almost a tic - rarely if ever do you see Addai just "running full steam ahead straight down the field" - I agree that not every run calls for a full head of steam, but I want to see Addai at least do that sometimes - the hop steps give away yards when holes are closing, and they keep him from building up power and momentum. It still ends up being a very effective style in that offense, so I am probably a little too harsh on Addai when it comes to bottom line productivity.

Good point. He does have a lack of "full head of steam" runs. I also think you make an excellent point that it really does also depend on the team and their offensive style and blocking techniques. What works in Indy may not not work other places.

 

[BigA]

4. Addai didn't do anything special but he sure did rack up yds and TD tonight.

This is correct.Addai did fine, but with the terrible LB play of the Saints, anything less than 100 on 23 carries would have been a shocker. Addai did just fine, don't get me wrong, but this game doesn't answer the main questions. We'll know more in about 7-8 games; that's when we'll learn if he's still running strong midway through the season and has churned out yards against tough Ds.

One thing I do know: saying he's arrived and will be fine all year off a game when New Orleans D looked like it barely got off the bus is too premature. He jumps and dances too much, and definitely runs too high, for me to believe he's a lock to keep this up all year. Injury or wear and tear could easily slow him down.

Easy to love him tonight, but I'd be selling high if I had him.

WOW!

Some people just baffle me.

Apologies if I was unclear. What about my thoughts didn't make sense? Or do you just disagree with my analysis of his game?To me, Addai isn't very good. *gasp* I know, I know. It's asking for a beating to admit this. And I do think if he stays healthy and energetic all year, he'll be a very good fantasy RB b/c of his situation. But I honestly don't like how he plays.

Watch replays of *any* run and check how many steps he wastes hopping and bouncing, both behind the line and in space. Not only that, but he stays so upright that he takes monster hits on routine plays regularly. For a guy who's never carried the load, even in college, this would be alarming to me if I owned him. I feel most starting RBs in the league would have done more with the chances Addai had last night. In other words, he had a big night, and I think most guys would've had a HUGE night. And on top of that, we will only know if Addai can justify his ADP later this season. If he has a great 6 weeks and wears down or breaks down, this game will be forgotten.

I don't like runners who treat the game like it was hopscotch, even when they put up good numbers against a team that barely came to play. I can only hope this doesn't make me the LHUCKS of Joe Addai.

Meanwhile, given that I had Addai ranked lower than your average bear, I would happily trade him for a RB I like more than him anyway (eeeeeven Reggie Bush) and a WR1. Blasphemy now, but we'll see by the end of the season.

I agree with Marc and Bloom most of the time and they certainly have more experience scouting RBs than I do, but I disagree on Addai. I don't think he's a superstar, but I think he's right below that level talent-wise. As for the "hopping", in my opinion there are 3 reasons why a RB hops. The first is due to a flaw in his mechanics for making cuts. This is not that much unlike the mechanical flaws that other players have, like a QB's arm motion (see Young, Vince) or even in other sports, like a pitcher in baseball. The running back takes a hop step when he tries to make a move instead of making a smooth cut. This is not a good thing because it slows down the cut, but I think it's generally something that can be coached out of a player.

The second reason for a hop is indecisiveness. This is probably the worst reason to hop. The running back is slow making a decision on where to cut, or worse, timid about making that cut because of a defender coming, so he makes a little hop step instead of making a smooth cut. This may be able to be coached out, but it's a bad sign.

The third reason to hop, and the reason that I mostly saw Addai hopping Thursday night, was to set up his moves. I think that sometimes people think that a running back should be running full steam ahead straight down the field all the time. That's silly. Good backs know that they need to let blocks develop and set up defenders. One way to do that is to make a little hop step. It slows them down to allow that block to happen, but it is better than coming to a complete stop because they don't lose all their momentum. I saw Addai doing this a lot on Thursday night as he was running wide parallel to the line of scrimmage. He hopped to let a block be made or to let a defender commit and then he cut back up field.

Obviously there can many different interpretations of why a RB hops, but when I have watched Addai, I think it mostly looks like he does it as a move to set up defenders and get more yards. And that certainly worked Thursday night.

This is a good breakdown and I definitely agree with your fundamental points. Addai does a lot of hopping to let holes open, but I see some hops that are almost a tic - rarely if ever do you see Addai just "running full steam ahead straight down the field" - I agree that not every run calls for a full head of steam, but I want to see Addai at least do that sometimes - the hop steps give away yards when holes are closing, and they keep him from building up power and momentum. It still ends up being a very effective style in that offense, so I am probably a little too harsh on Addai when it comes to bottom line productivity.

Good point. He does have a lack of "full head of steam" runs. I also think you make an excellent point that it really does also depend on the team and their offensive style and blocking techniques. What works in Indy may not not work other places.

bump

 

[switz]

But I don't overreact, especially when the Colts put up 41 and Addai only snared 1 TD and 23 carries. I wouldn't be surprised if this game fell out of the top 5 RB games for the week.

Top 3 rushing yardage game from the NFL perspective.Top 3 point scoring game from an NFL RB perspective.

 

[switz]

But I don't overreact, especially when the Colts put up 41 and Addai only snared 1 TD and 23 carries. I wouldn't be surprised if this game fell out of the top 5 RB games for the week.

Top 3 rushing yardage game from the NFL perspective.Top 3 point scoring game from an NFL RB perspective.

bump bump bump

 

[AnonymousBob]

But I don't overreact, especially when the Colts put up 41 and Addai only snared 1 TD and 23 carries. I wouldn't be surprised if this game fell out of the top 5 RB games for the week.

Top 3 rushing yardage game from the NFL perspective.Top 3 point scoring game from an NFL RB perspective.

bump bump bump

What? Somebody made a call and got it wrong? Hey switz, do the board a favor and let somebody else pat you on the back. If you were to get injured reaching past that enormous head of yours I'm not sure what we'd all do without you.

 

[switz]

But I don't overreact, especially when the Colts put up 41 and Addai only snared 1 TD and 23 carries. I wouldn't be surprised if this game fell out of the top 5 RB games for the week.

Top 3 rushing yardage game from the NFL perspective.Top 3 point scoring game from an NFL RB perspective.

bump bump bump

What? Somebody made a call and got it wrong? Hey switz, do the board a favor and let somebody else pat you on the back. If you were to get injured reaching past that enormous head of yours I'm not sure what we'd all do without you.

You're no fun. I was poking at Falletti... not patting myself on the back.