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If Saine has a future in the NFL, it will be as a WR. Saine was splite wide and ran a lot of wheel routes at Ohio State. He showed very good hands, and the ability to go up and get errant throws. He's definitely not a RB. No vision, and like you said, not very shifty.
He definitely showed excellent measurables today, but there is far more to playing RB than size and straight-line speed. For example, what separates Best from other RBs is his exceptional change of direction ability; Da'Rel Scott isn't anywhere close to Best in that regard.
I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to draft prospects but his scouting reports make him sound like a faster Mewelde Moore ie he can catch and find holes but he can't break tackles.
Maybe I have missed it...but not sure I have read someone saying he should go undrafted.I agree that is crazy talk.He has talent...but the risk puts him out of top consideration and I wouldn't be surprised to see him fall deep in the 1st round or into the 2nd.
Wait til Best does something in the NFL in order to compare him as if he's better than anyone.
2nd round sounds about right. And it's a tough thing to judge, but a 2nd rounder on Mallet seems to be a far better value then a top 20 pick on Newton.
What does LeSean McCoy's 28 inch vert say about him?
I don't see any need to do that. He won't be magically granted with increased football skills if he reaches some statistical mark that you deem important. He has terrific change of direction ability right now whether or not you choose to acknowledge it.
didn't he run like a 4.6 too? Everyone thought Eagles reached...now he's close to a top 5 back in PPR leagues
Really not that productive as an on field player and has some injury history. He is very much draftable, but I would surprised if he went before NFL round 4.
LOLBody of Work>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>combine
I'm pretty sure every rook RB we discuss in this thread hopes to (and their team hopes they do when they draft them) have more rushing yards than Best as a rookie.The wiggle means nothing if he doesn't gain decent yardage and 3.7 or whatever he averaged per carry is pathetic. You brought this chatter in here as if he excelled as a rook, he didn't.
He didn't excel in his first year (you can draw your own conclusions as to why that was). I still think he is a good RB with some tremendous strengths in his game (one of which I pointed out previously). There's really nothing else I can say on the topic.
He looked off his game today...but how do you put more weight on that than when he's proven himself in the biggest situations possible in college against the best competition possible in college (what was the Texas run D ranking prior to the BCSC?). Especially considering how many YAC he had.If there were any real health questions...or there was a slim margin between him and RB2...I'd understand doubts. But that isn't the case...and I haven't read anything about today affecting his draft yet.
Made worse by the Combine Hacks who don't watch actual games and look only at 40 times. Now, some have expanded their expertise to include the verticle jump.
Go Southlake Carrol Dragons!
Seriously. We all slam teams for falling in love with workout warriors, and yet fans seem even more likely to fall into the same trap. Game tape matters way more than combine performance. Period.Made worse by the Combine Hacks who don't watch actual games and look only at 40 times. Now, some have expanded their expertise to include the verticle jump.
Dude, that's what we are saying. It's the body of work that matters, how a players performs on the field against 11 athletes that are trying to knock his head off.I'm not a big fan of the "experts" like Mayock but the one thing he keep saying is, (I'm paraphrasing) "when a guys performance stands out at the combine that wasn't on my radar or surprises me by his performance it makes me go back and look at the tape (film) and see what I may have missed."Seriously. We all slam teams for falling in love with workout warriors, and yet fans seem even more likely to fall into the same trap. Game tape matters way more than combine performance. Period.Made worse by the Combine Hacks who don't watch actual games and look only at 40 times. Now, some have expanded their expertise to include the verticle jump.
Body of Work = performance on the field.
Serious question for you guys. Did Ingram really impress you on the field this year?
Certainly looked better in 09, but was playing with a bum knee this year wasn't he?
Did he only play this year? Did he not look better in the 2nd half of the season than he did the 1st?
Of course not. But isn't this year a part of his 'body or work'? I don't know if he looked better at the end of the season. That's why I was asking. He didn't make me say "wow" in the games I watched.
I don't know. But he had his only two 100 yard games immediately after coming back from the injury.
He injured his knee before the season started and had to have surgery if I'm not mistaken, 4 days before the season opener. Then played on a recovering knee..
Maybe it got worse as he played on it? Should he have taken more than 18 days off after surgery?The knee had been bothering him all season from what I remember. It was even mentioned in combine commentary and interviews.
I didn't see any mention about the knee, going all the way back to the 1st week after he returned, when he said it was a little sore. I didn't watch many Alabama games this past year and certainly don't have a bunch taped to review. But in the 3 games I saw, he didn't overly impress me. After seeing his combine results, it does make me wonder a bit. I would be interested in hearing what Waldman has to say after watching games from both years.
I have a hard time buying this argument. I can't believe that other teams took a year to figure this out. Why wouldn't teams have taken away the run last year against a less experienced McElroy? I have no doubt that Alabama's team was better last year.
Michigan State was on of the games I saw. He was good, but everyone on Alabama was good. He didn't really stand out to me as the best player on the team.
Sorry...I was agreeing with you and talking to Moderated.
You didn't hear much about the injury because Ingram and Saban refused to discuss it. But Ingram gained 10 pounds when he sat out a month...he exploded against Kentucky his first game back, but noticeably wore down as the season went on. He also had trouble cutting to one side. A lot of knowledgeable people remarked at how different he looked against Mich State, after rest....more power, sharper cuts, etc.One unique aspect of Alabama's '10 season was the fact that they played against teams coming off a bye week in 6 straight weeks. That was twice as much as any other SEC team had faced in 3 years. It was so remarkable that the SEC has had to promise to not allow that to happen again. Do the resident board gurus put any weight at all on something like that?
I’m not a draft or combine guru at all, so take this as a grain of salt.I thought Helu looked very solid, not great in the RB drills. He didn’t jump out at me necessarily. I don’t know how his combine results impacted his draft status. Couldn’t have hurt him at least. A couple of RBs that I am very unfamiliar with that did jump out at me were Fannin and Todman. Probably mostly Fannin’s size/speed combo that surprised me. Also, Dion Lewis’ agility/cutting looked incredible in a couple of the drills.
The problem with a bunch of these RBs is simply are they better than the backups teams have. Is a team improving by drafting them?IMO Backup RB is a very deep position in the NFL right now.Sure these rooks will be cheaper than vets so they'll be picked.Not an uber-college fan, I gotta say not many of these RBs looked the part. Some of these guys had impressive arms and their thighs were rather thin. Super elite RBs in the NFL don't seem to need thighs as big as normal chests, but most of the rest do. It's not that they aren't in terrific shape with impressive physiques, but so many didn't have NFL RB legs.
What he said.Does this guy have any power? Or is he just a dancer?BTW I mentioned it earlier, but the announcers (Faulk IIRC) were waiting for the next back to not be so quick laterally and Locke wasn't but was still impressive. They sorta ignored that like umm wait a sec, and then compared Lewis to the next slow guy.I imagine NFLN will replay it, if you get to watch it- look for Locke. His 40 time was way off and he needed to show his quicks in other drills. He really should be close to 4.2. He's been timed at least a dozen times and scored as such since he was a freshman at Kentucky. (Feel free to google and see for yourself)
I don't understand the hype for this guy. He's a career backup in college that posted a pretty good 40 time, but then showed nothing in the agility drills (and may not have even performed them, I haven't been able to find numbers for him). He only ran .04 seconds faster than Helu in the 40 yard dash, while Helu went on to get tops in both shuttles, post a 3 cone time just .02 seconds slower than the NFL.com record for RBs, and get at least top 10 in every other category. Match that with his college production and I don't know why he isn't considered a better prospect. All that said, he does need work. He's played mostly out of a spread system and needs to work on his pass blocking and catching.
Honestly, I didn't even know who Fannin was when I saw him at the combine. But yeah, it's mostly the 40 time coupled with his size and strength that blew me away. The other drills etc. left something to be desired, for sure. And the fact he was a career backup in college is concerning, but sometimes a guy gets buried in the depth chart or in the doghouse for some reason when he really can play... not saying this is the case with Fannin though, I haven't the foggiest. I don't let the combine get me too carried away with a guy or too down on one... just think it helps dial in guys a bit more after looking at their college performance.
I'm going to selfishly turn this point towards Helu because I'm bored at work and want to discuss one of my long term pet projects, but I think I can resoundingly say "Yes" to this question when discussing Helu.I think he is putting together a truly excellent performance while going almost completely ignored. Let's compare him to Ryan Mathews, the top RB pick in 2010.
Won't get past Arizona at #5. Could easily be a Bill.
