two_dollars
Footballguy
Wouldn't that just reinforce that you play to the whistle and support those defending TB?
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Coughlin/Schiano words after game? (1 Viewer)
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Khy
Footballguy
I think what he is saying is wouldn't people be saying "That was unsportsmanlike and uncalled for and it served no purpose, shame on Coach Coughlin." Which is true, that's exactly what everyone would say. That said... Coughlin would never do something like that so that argument is kind of null and void.
David Dodds
Administrator
Extremely bush league in my eyes. Like others had said, there is no chance to get a fumble from a QB kneeling down because as soon as his knee hits, the ball is dead. 1 second left on the clock. Your team lost.
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foxco
Footballguy
But there's a reason it's not done. The "all players should play every play with effort" is nice in theory, but it's just not applicable in every situation. If it was, then there would be no such thing as kneel downs because the D would swarm the QB -- but that never happens (except today, which is bush league).
Smack Tripper
Footballguy
We know coach, you had plenty of practice.More BS from one of football's great flim-flammers. How this guy keeps getting blank checks for mediocre work is astounding.
Voice Of Reason
Footballguy
Completely legit play by Tampa.
Just because something is not standard doesn't make it wrong.
Seriously, the Giants fumbled there, would that not have been once of the best coaching moves in recent history?
Just because something is not standard doesn't make it wrong.
Seriously, the Giants fumbled there, would that not have been once of the best coaching moves in recent history?
Carter_Can_Fly
Footballguy
This is a joke right?That is a bush league move! THere are some unwritten rules, and Schiano will learn from this. I can almost assure you that Schiano will not have his players do that again.
zoonation
Footballguy
Are you honestly suggesting that the two situations are analogous in any way whatsoever? You're a beauty...you really are.In the entire storied history of the NFL no tea has ever got a turnover on a kneel down. Mostly because it isn't done as it is impossible.
The game was over. Lose with class.
Voice Of Reason
Footballguy
Herm Edwards tho
In the entire storied history of the NFL no tea has ever got a turnover on a kneel down. Mostly because it isn't done as it is impossible.
The game was over. Lose with class.
Voice Of Reason
Footballguy
Why should Tampa care about unwritten rules? And pretty sure Schiano will do this again if anything to justify his move today.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
You don't know they are going to do a kneel down just because they line up that way. Maybe Coughlin wanted to tack on some more points. What if Eli had faked the kneel down and tossed another one to Nicks or Cruz? Clock still had time on it. All jokes aside, when you look at the tape again it does look pretty bad so I understand why folks are up in arms.
In the entire storied history of the NFL no tea has ever got a turnover on a kneel down. Mostly because it isn't done as it is impossible.
The game was over. Lose with class.
zoonation
Footballguy
the game was over. you cannot get a turnover on a kneel down. it is poor sportsmanship. pure and simple.
Carter_Can_Fly
Footballguy
No he won't, because he will realize that is was dumb!
TidesofWar
Footballguy
I have always wondered why more teams do not try to shoot the C/G gaps and try to strip the ball on that play.It is your only chance, and you Play To Win The Game!
If The Old Gnome wants to scream about something, that Giant secondary might be a good starting point
If The Old Gnome wants to scream about something, that Giant secondary might be a good starting point
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tombonneau
Footballguy
So what would have happened if the rush got to Manning before he could be properly take a knee and he fumbled the ball?
Anyway not really sure i have a strong opinion one way or the other on this one. It wast definitely unorthodox and I can see how pro players and coaches would be bothered by it -- it's kind of the equivalent of the guy in a pickup game who plays way too intense defense -- but looked much ado about nothing to me.
People acting like this was some kind of sweep the leg code red order I think are overreacting.
Anyway not really sure i have a strong opinion one way or the other on this one. It wast definitely unorthodox and I can see how pro players and coaches would be bothered by it -- it's kind of the equivalent of the guy in a pickup game who plays way too intense defense -- but looked much ado about nothing to me.
People acting like this was some kind of sweep the leg code red order I think are overreacting.
None_More_Black
Footballguy
Probably a bad idea but Shiano knows about the miracle at the meadowlands. Don't think it was a big deal. Running up the score is worse.Herm Edwards tho
In the entire storied history of the NFL no tea has ever got a turnover on a kneel down. Mostly because it isn't done as it is impossible.
The game was over. Lose with class.
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GregR
Footballguy
If I'm the coach and I do this, I think the odds of the offense fumbling, my team recovering it, and winning a game then, are pretty small.
I think the odds of one of my own players being injured in retaliation, including when other teams start doing the same to my team when we try to take a knee, is far greater than the odds I win a game from the tactic.
So without even considering sportsmanship or the like, I think it's a losing strategy. So shouldn't be done.
I think the odds of one of my own players being injured in retaliation, including when other teams start doing the same to my team when we try to take a knee, is far greater than the odds I win a game from the tactic.
So without even considering sportsmanship or the like, I think it's a losing strategy. So shouldn't be done.
Smack Tripper
Footballguy
And when Darren Sharper(or whovever) blitzes off tackle and lights up Josh Freeman, he'll stop.Its a courtesy in an already dangerous game.
Smack Tripper
Footballguy
Have you ever seen the Pisarcik play? It was a running play and that is absolutely free reign to do this. The kneel down is a give up play in the eyes of the officials.'Voice Of Reason said:Herm Edwards tho'zoonation said:
In the entire storied history of the NFL no tea has ever got a turnover on a kneel down. Mostly because it isn't done as it is impossible.
The game was over. Lose with class.
Voice Of Reason
Footballguy
1) I don't think future opponents care about the Giants.2) Pretty sure defenders do whatever they can within the rules to light of QBs as is.'Smack Tripper said:
Voice Of Reason
Footballguy
Just rewatched it. Good catch, it was a bad example. Did Rutgers ever cause a fumble on the kneel down play?Have you ever seen the Pisarcik play? It was a running play and that is absolutely free reign to do this. The kneel down is a give up play in the eyes of the officials.'Voice Of Reason said:Herm Edwards tho'zoonation said:
In the entire storied history of the NFL no tea has ever got a turnover on a kneel down. Mostly because it isn't done as it is impossible.
The game was over. Lose with class.
Smack Tripper
Footballguy
Lets just say, if he pulls this in his own division, they very much WILL care. The question is, how many times will someone have a chance at retribution. They're a six win team.
TheLastDispatch
Footballguy
I disagree with MOP as well but let's refrain from devolving this thread, as these forums seem to do so much now in every thread.
RUSF18
Footballguy
Yes, last year against UNC. They fumbled the last snap but UNC recovered.
sporthenry
Footballguy
Well this is silly. Why would Schiano get a fine? What NFL rule did he break? Perhaps an unwritten rule but I don't see anything in the rule book that a kneel down is a dead play. I don't mind the play. There were 4 seconds left so they could recover a fumble and have one last play on offense. They were probably going for surprise tactic and hope something went wrong. I liked the play and unwritten rules are meant to be broken. Just like Bellichick claiming Ballard. Perhaps it doesn't work 99 times out of 100 but 1 time might make it worth it although the surprise is gone now that it blew up like this. And about Eli fake spiking and throwing it, he can do that but I doubt the Giants want another Miracle at the Meadowlands. You don't throw it b/c an interception could cost you the game.'Khy said:
Rovers
Footballguy
Anyone defending this low class move by this rookie coach truely is clueless. In college, yes, it is 'somewhat' aceptable to run up scores and coach like that. In college, the kneel down is not an accepted way to finish a game for many coaches.
In the NFL however, teams do not run up scores or yardage once the outcome has been decided. The kneel down is an accepted way to avoid rubbing salt in the wound. It's about respect. These are no longer boys, these are men playing a game for a living. That's why it's called PROFESSIONAL football. It isn't college anymore.
Hey coach.... this isn't Rutgers. You may not have cared about your college players risking unecassary injury, but you don't send your players out to dive at opponent's knees when the outcome of the game has been decided in the NFL.
I hope every team in the NFL just runs up the score as much as they can when they play TB this year. Teach the rookie the difference between rah-rah college ball and playing and coaching like a professional.
Bush league cheap shot coaching. Can you imagine if Manning tore an ACL on that play? A give up play? It was more than unsportmanlike, it was despicable. I could even call it an intent to injure call by the HC. TB DID go after the knees. Sore loser football.
In the NFL however, teams do not run up scores or yardage once the outcome has been decided. The kneel down is an accepted way to avoid rubbing salt in the wound. It's about respect. These are no longer boys, these are men playing a game for a living. That's why it's called PROFESSIONAL football. It isn't college anymore.
Hey coach.... this isn't Rutgers. You may not have cared about your college players risking unecassary injury, but you don't send your players out to dive at opponent's knees when the outcome of the game has been decided in the NFL.
I hope every team in the NFL just runs up the score as much as they can when they play TB this year. Teach the rookie the difference between rah-rah college ball and playing and coaching like a professional.
Bush league cheap shot coaching. Can you imagine if Manning tore an ACL on that play? A give up play? It was more than unsportmanlike, it was despicable. I could even call it an intent to injure call by the HC. TB DID go after the knees. Sore loser football.
PlasmaDogPlasma
Footballguy
Just saw the interview with Schiano talking about "some people" being upset by that. That's a 2 time Super Bowl champion and you're a nobody Greg. You were wrong and he was right. Don't lecture him or us like we're 18 year olds.
I've always rooted for the Bucs when I watched their games, unless they were playing my team. I think Schiano might cause me to reverse that.
I've always rooted for the Bucs when I watched their games, unless they were playing my team. I think Schiano might cause me to reverse that.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
It's not really a bad example.In that game the Giants actually took a knee on the play before, but Philly went all out after the QB. Wanting to avoid their QB getting hit, they called a handoff on the next play instead of taking another knee, and of course the rest is history.Just rewatched it. Good catch, it was a bad example. Did Rutgers ever cause a fumble on the kneel down play?Have you ever seen the Pisarcik play? It was a running play and that is absolutely free reign to do this. The kneel down is a give up play in the eyes of the officials.'Voice Of Reason said:Herm Edwards tho'zoonation said:
In the entire storied history of the NFL no tea has ever got a turnover on a kneel down. Mostly because it isn't done as it is impossible.
The game was over. Lose with class.
There's no freebies in football. I don't see a problem with at least putting some pressure on the center to get a good snap off. Quarterbacks are abusing the kneeldown now anyway, with them often taking the snap and standing around for a few seconds while the defense stands around before dropping to a knee as soon as someone finally reacts.
netnalp
Footballguy
Perhaps with replacement refs there was and added incentive to go for it. If the ball did come loose and the Bucs return it for a TD. It wouldn't be a shock if the replacement refs call it a score and didn't overturn it because they couldn't see the knee going down with all the bodies around.
Neil Beaufort Zod
Footballguy
I watched the play several times. If you put pressure on the offense when they snap the ball...isn't there a chance they could bobble it and you could recover? Unless you just want to concede that the game is over (down by multiple scores) shouldn't you take the longshot odds to win instead of the guaranteed loss?
In this case, Manning took the quick knee. But we've all seen the QB take a step back or two before casually putting down the knee. In that case, couldn't pressure maybe cause him to bobble it? Shouldn't the defense at least play to take advantage of that happening?
I didn't see a late it (or much of a hit at all) or any cheap shots. They were playing on the sliver of hope they had left. When Dan Marino faked a spike, he was a genius. It was the defense's fault for not staying alert. If the offense had fumbled due to unexpected pressure and the Bucs had recovered... wouldn't they be the smart ones?
I didn't see the game, and from what everyone said I thought they took his head off in a bush league play. But that's not really what happened at all.
In this case, Manning took the quick knee. But we've all seen the QB take a step back or two before casually putting down the knee. In that case, couldn't pressure maybe cause him to bobble it? Shouldn't the defense at least play to take advantage of that happening?
I didn't see a late it (or much of a hit at all) or any cheap shots. They were playing on the sliver of hope they had left. When Dan Marino faked a spike, he was a genius. It was the defense's fault for not staying alert. If the offense had fumbled due to unexpected pressure and the Bucs had recovered... wouldn't they be the smart ones?
I didn't see the game, and from what everyone said I thought they took his head off in a bush league play. But that's not really what happened at all.
jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
football or not--sportsmanship is always something that should be preached. The giants were kneeling down--its not like they were running up the score. If the bucs wanted to get physical, they should have done it before the game was already decided. It's pathetic that they only way they can get a hit in is via a cheap shot. I'm not a coughlin guy, but I'm with him here.
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
This #### was bush league, it's as simple as that. There are so many ### #### injuries in this sport, if someone were to get injured on a play as useless as a kneel down, it'd be shameful. I truly dislike Coughlin, but he had every right to yell at Schiano.
Deamon
Footballguy
I'm excited for Tampa to have the ball in the final minute and take a knee. I HOPE the opposing team does the same, though I doubt they will. I bet Freeman and the Tampa Oline thought this was pretty silly too. Have there been any interviews with any tampa players regarding it?
Neil Beaufort Zod
Footballguy
If the Giants fumble, it's not really useless, is it? It could change the outcome of the game. If pressure-- not a late hit, not trying to cut him at the knees-- causes him to bobble the ball...is that bush league? If there was a late hit or something, I'd be in full agreement. But it's not right to expect the defense to not pursue the quarterback when he has the ball and there's a chance at avoiding a loss (one score game). It sounds like "bush league" has become synonymous with "the defense not acting the way I want." They barely touched him. If they were just trying to apply pressure to take a swat at the ball, what's wrong with that?
otb_lifer
Footballguy
Always hilarious to see punk/bush/cowardly behavior defended, or described as "tough" or "hard nosed" ... Schiano is a tool for green lighting this. Coughlin is a feisty SOB, good for him scolding that jackass.
foxco
Footballguy
Again, if this were the case, then it would happen all the time. It doesn't happen all the time, and that's for a reason.
Ignoramus
Footballguy
Faking a spike is a spin-off of a clock-killing move to save time to allow a drive to continue. Taking a knee is pretty much the exact opposite.I watched the play several times. If you put pressure on the offense when they snap the ball...isn't there a chance they could bobble it and you could recover? Unless you just want to concede that the game is over (down by multiple scores) shouldn't you take the longshot odds to win instead of the guaranteed loss?In this case, Manning took the quick knee. But we've all seen the QB take a step back or two before casually putting down the knee. In that case, couldn't pressure maybe cause him to bobble it? Shouldn't the defense at least play to take advantage of that happening?I didn't see a late it (or much of a hit at all) or any cheap shots. They were playing on the sliver of hope they had left. When Dan Marino faked a spike, he was a genius. It was the defense's fault for not staying alert. If the offense had fumbled due to unexpected pressure and the Bucs had recovered... wouldn't they be the smart ones?I didn't see the game, and from what everyone said I thought they took his head off in a bush league play. But that's not really what happened at all.
pollardsvision
Footballguy
Impossible?Then why is there a guy 10 yards behind the QB?'zoonation said:
In the entire storied history of the NFL no tea has ever got a turnover on a kneel down. Mostly because it isn't done as it is impossible.
The game was over. Lose with class.
Maybe it's never happened (I'm not sure that's true), but that doesn't mean it's impossible. If team's never attempt it, then it's no wonder it's rare.
This wouldn't be an issue if the Giants OL had decided to block the guys across from them, who were very clearly planning to rush the QB.
Monsieur Meursault
Footballguy
Which is the reason for the kneel down... to run down that time on the clock, to end the game with the least risk for a turnover and/or injury. Again your argument is idiotic because faking a kneel down drastically increases the risk for a turnover. I relaize you are grasping for straws and trying to save face, but come on. Are you really this obtuse?'Ministry of Pain said:You don't know they are going to do a kneel down just because they line up that way. Maybe Coughlin wanted to tack on some more points. What if Eli had faked the kneel down and tossed another one to Nicks or Cruz? Clock still had time on it. All jokes aside, when you look at the tape again it does look pretty bad so I understand why folks are up in arms.'zoonation said:
In the entire storied history of the NFL no tea has ever got a turnover on a kneel down. Mostly because it isn't done as it is impossible.
The game was over. Lose with class.
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Rick James
Footballguy
I'm a Falcons fan and have no reason to defend the Bucs, but I really don't see the issue here. I thought what Schiano did was fine.
JAA
Footballguy
Humor me here ...What if the ball came loose, recovered by TB with a dead-ball foul against NYG? One un-timed play for TB, would you still say the same thing?
People: If the last play was irrelevant, why even have it? If the NFL doesnt want injuries in these situations, why not just run down the clock and not even have a play?
If someone would have gotten hurt on that play, every defender on teh Bucs would have been a candidate for a cheap crackback block to the knees as the year progressed.
It's not the first time some over zealous college punk coach was going to come the league and change the world. It won't happen again. Not with Schiano. He now undertsands league etiquette. These things usually police themselves.
It's not the first time some over zealous college punk coach was going to come the league and change the world. It won't happen again. Not with Schiano. He now undertsands league etiquette. These things usually police themselves.
Hoss Style
Footballguy
It's amusing that you assumed he was talking about your stance. Amusing indeed.
