Could you win a fight with a (1 Viewer)

[playin4beer]

3rd degree blackbelt with limited MMA training.. NO wrestling ability whatsoever... Fought in (2) full contact kickboxing fights...

Lost the first by decision.. lost the second with a broken nose, fight stopped, blood all over....

I would give myself about a 25% chance... with 0% if it goes to the ground...

And I don't overestimate my chin... I've been hit so hard, I've tasted smoke in my fillings...

 

[moleculo]

A 10 lb smaller version of him, with obviously less strength and possibly more quickness... I'm not sure that would be enough to make a huge difference.

Shave weight off the girl -- how light would she have to be before it was an even fight with you? Physics comes into play at some point.

Of course there are limits. I'm not sure how to draw that line.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Only if my first punch landed and KO'ed her.

 

[Buck Bradcanon]

To hell with an MMA chick, I'd prolly get the snot beat out of me by a 135 lb female accountant or admin assistant.

 

[Buck Bradcanon]

Never watch MMA, so my pants thank you guys for the Gina Cerano references.

 

[The_Man]

So for all the guys who assume they would automatically win due to your 1-foot, 100-pound advantage, does that mean you would in turn automatically lose to a dude who is a foot taller and 100 pounds heavier than you?

 

[moleculo]

I think a lot of people don't understand the ground game and how it deflates any advantages a larger, stronger opponent has over a smaller one.

I thought weight confered much more advantage in the ground game, and less in striking (assuming similar heights)? i understand that the smaller fighter can conceivablly achieve a submission hold on a bigger opponent, a la Royce Gracie. But the devil is in getting to that submission hold ... isn't that much harder against an opponent double your body weight than it against someone in your own weight class? It was harder for Royce to submit Dan Severn (sorry, my MMA references are ancient) than it was for him to submit the smaller strikers.

Maybe if we're pitting the 135-lb woman against completely untrained, unathletic guys. But give the big guys even basic HS-athlete level athleticism ... they should be able to make things a lot tougher on the MMA woman. Not saying she couldn't still win, but it wouldn't be (for her) like fighting a small child or something.

that's what Brazilian jiu jitsu is all about...wiki

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu (Portuguese pronunciation: [ʒɪwˈʒitsu], English: /dʒuːˈdʒɪtsuː/) (BJJ) is a martial art, combat sport, and a self defense system that focuses on grappling and especially ground fighting. The art was derived from the Japanese martial art of Kodokan judo in the early 20th century.[1][2]

It teaches that a smaller, weaker person can successfully defend against a bigger, stronger assailant by using leverage and proper techniquemost notably by applying joint-locks and chokeholds to defeat the other person...

I'd put it this way in terms of importance:skill/technique > strength/conditioning > size. I'm not saying size is unimportant or at some point it can overcome skill, but size is much less important than one might think wrt the ground game.

Here's why: when you are in the top position fighting from the guard, you really want to be postured back, with all of your weight on your hips...especially if you want to be punching (you do). If your weight is on your hips, it's not on your opponent so you can't really use that to your advantage. If you put your weight on him(her), you are off-centered and getting swept (rolled) becomes more likely...in addition to leaving your head exposed for possible triangle/guillitine chokes or your arms in position for arm locks/kimura's.

now, if you were able to pass guard and get to side control or even full mount, it's a different game entirely. Now, weight makes a huge difference because you can safely lean on someone without risking getting swept.

Now, that's where it gets difficult. Do you know how to pass guard? I didn't when I started...I'm not saying I'm the most athletic guy, but I was a college wrestler. I now know that all of my wrestling instincts are dead wrong and completely the opposite of what you should do in a self-defense type situation...things like not going to your back, feeling comfortable putting weight on your opponent, and not recognizing when you are about to get choked/joint manipulated.

so, assume both opponents have some level of applacable MMA skill. Now, skill is negated, and strength/conditioning and size are more important. That's how I'd put things. Size matters, but technique matters more.

 

[the moops]

but I'm definitely quicker than both these girls

No chance

The girl in the video who posted it on youtube made a comment in the comment section. Its her 2nd MMA fight.

I doubt that you are quicker than either of those girls. They may not be elite fighters, but they are in very good shape and seem pretty damn quick to me.

 

[matuski]

@ any guy on the ffa who thinks they can hang with a pro mma fighter regardless of gender. jfc.

There are military and law enforcement in the FFA. Mixed-martial arts training is not magic. Yes, practically any trained MMA fighter, any gender/size, will beat any couch potato.Start changing some paramaters around, though. Keep bending and adjusting the parameters until you get what you feel is a fair fight. Advanced MMA training counts for a lot, no doubt, but how much? How much size, weight, and athleticism can it make up for when you're no longer fighting couch potatos?

Can the MMA woman take out a whole SEAL team by herself? No? OK, change it up ... make it one SEAL. Is that a close fight? Dunno ... highly trained man vs highly trained woman ... seems like the man has a natural strength advantage at minmum.

So we get away from highly-trained+athletic men, and go on to the merely highly-athletic guys -- your pro & college athletes, your high-level amateurs. The MMA woman against a prime Rulon Gardner? Her training can make that size difference up on a (differently) trained opponent? Moleculo suggests "yes". What say you?

If only there were a short thread around here on this topic.

 

[adrenaline]

Did any of you watch shaq vs de la hoya? Shaq is a hall of fame athlete that had over 100 lbs on de la hoya...He did not even come close to knocking him out....I don't think these gals are getting enough credit.

1st off, Wow, that was highly entertaining. I didn't know that fighting existed, mad props.Shaq pushed him around as easy as imagined, I think in a mma fight he would have ground & pounded him fairly easy.

 

[Doug B]

How has this been altered?

Didn't say it was. I am only disagreeing with the notion that any and all MMA-trained fighters (regardless of gender) could beat any and all non-MMA folks (irregardless of gender/size/strength).For those that believe that MMA is virtually "magic" (loaded word, apologies), I wanted to introduce the thought exercise of "The Fair Fight": if you are certain that no FFA guy could contend with the 135-lb MMA woman, then I invite you to give an example of the kind of non-MMA opponent that would be about a 50/50 fight.

The reason I suggest framing it as "The Fair Fight" is because it's pretty obvious that the couch potato loses every time -- so that's not a very interesting proposition. So as you move away from the couch potato, and start suggesting better and better male opponents, you start coming up with more and more interesting matchups.

 

[george]

I know moleculo and I discussed the other scenerio offline as we were both college wrestlers.

But I think strenght is being underestimated here.

From what I know, World class female wrestlers regularly get their clocks cleaned by the top high school wrestlers their size at the OTC. I'm thinking a reasonably athletic man with some experience in martial arts/wrestling/self defense stands a reasonably good chance of overpowering a 135 lb MMA female if he outweighs her by 50-100 pounds. I'm not saying win every time, but I think you guys are underestimating the difference in overall strenght that most men have over women.

 

[SacramentoBob]

From what I know, World class female wrestlers regularly get their clocks cleaned by the top high school wrestlers their size at the OTC. I'm thinking a reasonably athletic man with some experience in martial arts/wrestling/self defense stands a reasonably good chance of overpowering a 135 lb MMA female if he outweighs her by 50-100 pounds. I'm not saying win every time, but I think you guys are underestimating the difference in overall strenght that most men have over women.

In just about all sports, an above average male athlete in high school is >= the best women have to offer in that sport. Female athlete is almost an oxymoron.

 

[Christo]

So for all the guys who assume they would automatically win due to your 1-foot, 100-pound advantage, does that mean you would in turn automatically lose to a dude who is a foot taller and 100 pounds heavier than you?

What the hell is it with all of these absolutes?

 

[Jayrod]

At 6'2", 220 and athletic, there are very few women in the world I don't think I could take, much less one that is 85 lbs lighter than me.

I've never been in a fight in my life, but no way in heck do I lose a real street fight to any woman who doesn't have a weapon.

 

[NCCommish]

At 6'2", 220 and athletic, there are very few women in the world I don't think I could take, much less one that is 85 lbs lighter than me. I've never been in a fight in my life, but no way in heck do I lose a real street fight to any woman who doesn't have a weapon.

If you've never been in a fight in your life you lose. Sorry but there is more to winning a fight than a weight advantage, experience means so much. If you have never taken a punch thrown in anger you have no idea how you'll react to it and you have no clue as to what to do next. Oh sure you probably rush her. Bet she's seen that before. Bet you haven't seen what happens to you next. That's where experience makes a huge difference.

 

[Black Box]

Not a really a fighter, or in anything resembling adequate athletic condition. I'd be destroyed quickly on my best day. First solid punch to my head would sap any will that I had left and if she hooked a submission on me, it'd be even worse. If I was really lucky, I'd be able to use my longer legs and create enough distance to find a place to hide until she gave up and went away.

I just hope she doesn't hit me before I can get to my rape whistle.

 

[Zow]

Could I win a fight? Yes, but I'd put my odds at least than 10 percent. I only give myself a chance for two reasons: I wrestled for about 8 years and think I'd be strong enough to knock out a 135 lbs. person with one punch. So, the fight would consist of me trying play a ton of defense while looking, probably very early, to get in one big hit. I doubt I'd be good enough to overpower her as I'd be exposed to all those holds and she is likely way more fit than me so I honestly doubt I could outbox or wrestle her.

 

[Jayrod]

At 6'2", 220 and athletic, there are very few women in the world I don't think I could take, much less one that is 85 lbs lighter than me. I've never been in a fight in my life, but no way in heck do I lose a real street fight to any woman who doesn't have a weapon.

If you've never been in a fight in your life you lose. Sorry but there is more to winning a fight than a weight advantage, experience means so much. If you have never taken a punch thrown in anger you have no idea how you'll react to it and you have no clue as to what to do next. Oh sure you probably rush her. Bet she's seen that before. Bet you haven't seen what happens to you next. That's where experience makes a huge difference.

There are real forces of physics involved that are huge disadvantages for her. I'm not just bigger, I'm stronger and at least fairly close in quickness. And just because I've never come to blows with someone doesn't mean I don't understand how to use leverage, use my reach advantage and keep my balance. However, as a college football (WR) & basketball player, I'm more athletic and tougher than the average Joe. I've been blindsided harder than any woman ever could hit me and taken elbows to the face that required stitches on 4 occasions.The majority of guys I know would likely lose that fight, even among the college athletes. One of the main reasons I've never been in a fight is because the other guy thought better of it on a handful of occasions.

 

[matuski]

At 6'2", 220 and athletic, there are very few women in the world I don't think I could take, much less one that is 85 lbs lighter than me.

I've never been in a fight in my life, but no way in heck do I lose a real street fight to any woman who doesn't have a weapon.

If you've never been in a fight in your life you lose. Sorry but there is more to winning a fight than a weight advantage, experience means so much. If you have never taken a punch thrown in anger you have no idea how you'll react to it and you have no clue as to what to do next. Oh sure you probably rush her. Bet she's seen that before. Bet you haven't seen what happens to you next. That's where experience makes a huge difference.

There are real forces of physics involved that are huge disadvantages for her. I'm not just bigger, I'm stronger and at least fairly close in quickness. And just because I've never come to blows with someone doesn't mean I don't understand how to use leverage, use my reach advantage and keep my balance. However, as a college football (WR) & basketball player, I'm more athletic and tougher than the average Joe. I've been blindsided harder than any woman ever could hit me and taken elbows to the face that required stitches on 4 occasions.The majority of guys I know would likely lose that fight, even among the college athletes. One of the main reasons I've never been in a fight is because the other guy thought better of it on a handful of occasions.

Presence.

 

[The_Man]

At 6'2", 220 and athletic, there are very few women in the world I don't think I could take, much less one that is 85 lbs lighter than me. I've never been in a fight in my life, but no way in heck do I lose a real street fight to any woman who doesn't have a weapon.

If you've never been in a fight in your life you lose. Sorry but there is more to winning a fight than a weight advantage, experience means so much. If you have never taken a punch thrown in anger you have no idea how you'll react to it and you have no clue as to what to do next. Oh sure you probably rush her. Bet she's seen that before. Bet you haven't seen what happens to you next. That's where experience makes a huge difference.

There are real forces of physics involved that are huge disadvantages for her. I'm not just bigger, I'm stronger and at least fairly close in quickness. And just because I've never come to blows with someone doesn't mean I don't understand how to use leverage, use my reach advantage and keep my balance. However, as a college football (WR) & basketball player, I'm more athletic and tougher than the average Joe. I've been blindsided harder than any woman ever could hit me and taken elbows to the face that required stitches on 4 occasions.The majority of guys I know would likely lose that fight, even among the college athletes. One of the main reasons I've never been in a fight is because the other guy thought better of it on a handful of occasions.

OK, then how would you do in a fight vs. a guy that weighs 305 lbs, and is strong and fast? I'm asking because by employing your same logic, you would have no chance.

 

[Jayrod]

At 6'2", 220 and athletic, there are very few women in the world I don't think I could take, much less one that is 85 lbs lighter than me. I've never been in a fight in my life, but no way in heck do I lose a real street fight to any woman who doesn't have a weapon.

If you've never been in a fight in your life you lose. Sorry but there is more to winning a fight than a weight advantage, experience means so much. If you have never taken a punch thrown in anger you have no idea how you'll react to it and you have no clue as to what to do next. Oh sure you probably rush her. Bet she's seen that before. Bet you haven't seen what happens to you next. That's where experience makes a huge difference.

There are real forces of physics involved that are huge disadvantages for her. I'm not just bigger, I'm stronger and at least fairly close in quickness. And just because I've never come to blows with someone doesn't mean I don't understand how to use leverage, use my reach advantage and keep my balance. However, as a college football (WR) & basketball player, I'm more athletic and tougher than the average Joe. I've been blindsided harder than any woman ever could hit me and taken elbows to the face that required stitches on 4 occasions.The majority of guys I know would likely lose that fight, even among the college athletes. One of the main reasons I've never been in a fight is because the other guy thought better of it on a handful of occasions.

OK, then how would you do in a fight vs. a guy that weighs 305 lbs, and is strong and fast? I'm asking because by employing your same logic, you would have no chance.

And I would concur. I've played football with guys around 6'3-5" and 270-290 who were stronger and almost as quick as me. I would have no chance. I wouldn't even get close enough to throw a punch before I was thrown to the ground. I tried to block these guys sometimes and I couldn't move them one inch if they had a clue I was coming.I get what you are saying about just comparing based on size, but once you factor in whether or not someone knows how to move and has some quickness, size can be utilized to make it a one-sided affair.

 

[shake zula]

How has this been altered?

Didn't say it was. I am only disagreeing with the notion that any and all MMA-trained fighters (regardless of gender) could beat any and all non-MMA folks (irregardless of gender/size/strength).

For those that believe that MMA is virtually "magic" (loaded word, apologies), I wanted to introduce the thought exercise of "The Fair Fight": if you are certain that no FFA guy could contend with the 135-lb MMA woman, then I invite you to give an example of the kind of non-MMA opponent that would be about a 50/50 fight.

The reason I suggest framing it as "The Fair Fight" is because it's pretty obvious that the couch potato loses every time -- so that's not a very interesting proposition. So as you move away from the couch potato, and start suggesting better and better male opponents, you start coming up with more and more interesting matchups.

And all that I am saying is that you are 100% wrong. If you are not a "fighter" there is no scenario were you are going to get 50/50 odds from me against a pro irregardless (I don't think this is a real word but I love it) of gender.

 

[Thunderlips]

Speed counts for a lot. I know they are faster than me.

 

[Thorn]

"could"

 

[Flying V]

I sometimes have nightmares about "The Blue Bear".

 

[Doug B]

And all that I am saying is that you are 100% wrong. If you are not a "fighter" there is no scenario were you are going to get 50/50 odds from me against a pro irregardless (I don't think this is a real word but I love it) of gender.

I didn't stipulate "pro" ... but we can go with that.The absolute smallest female MMA fighter out there ... I'm assuming she's south of 110 lbs. She can kick (for example) Dwight Howard's butt whenever she wants? And he doesn't even challenge her? That beggars belief.

 

[Doug B]

Didn't say it was. I am only disagreeing with the notion that any and all MMA-trained fighters (regardless of gender) could beat any and all non-MMA folks (irregardless of gender/size/strength).

And all that I am saying is that you are 100% wrong. If you are not a "fighter" there is no scenario were you are going to get 50/50 odds from me against a pro irregardless (I don't think this is a real word but I love it) of gender.

Re-read what I wrote ... I didn't write "non-fighter". I wrote "non-MMA". It's possible to learn how to handle yourself exceedingly well without practicing mixed-martial arts.

 

[NCCommish]

At 6'2", 220 and athletic, there are very few women in the world I don't think I could take, much less one that is 85 lbs lighter than me. I've never been in a fight in my life, but no way in heck do I lose a real street fight to any woman who doesn't have a weapon.

If you've never been in a fight in your life you lose. Sorry but there is more to winning a fight than a weight advantage, experience means so much. If you have never taken a punch thrown in anger you have no idea how you'll react to it and you have no clue as to what to do next. Oh sure you probably rush her. Bet she's seen that before. Bet you haven't seen what happens to you next. That's where experience makes a huge difference.

There are real forces of physics involved that are huge disadvantages for her. I'm not just bigger, I'm stronger and at least fairly close in quickness. And just because I've never come to blows with someone doesn't mean I don't understand how to use leverage, use my reach advantage and keep my balance. However, as a college football (WR) & basketball player, I'm more athletic and tougher than the average Joe. I've been blindsided harder than any woman ever could hit me and taken elbows to the face that required stitches on 4 occasions.The majority of guys I know would likely lose that fight, even among the college athletes. One of the main reasons I've never been in a fight is because the other guy thought better of it on a handful of occasions.

The whole focus of techniques taught in MMA fighting is to use physics against you. I think you are seriously overestimating yourself. We aren't talking a ring here. We are talking in the street. Plenty of room to move. More athletic and tougher doesn't help when you find yourself in a submission hold you never saw coming because you have never been in a fight. Glad you intimidate people but that isn't winning a fight and a pro ain't likely to be intimidated.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

 

[squidrope]

I'm shocked at the results. Lots of honest FBG's here. I'm 6' 225 and I'd be willing to bet she'd own me. If I could fall on her I think I'd win. But otherwise my ### would be grass.

 

[the moops]

I wouldnt want to be on the receiving end of those punches and knees.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

Sounds like foreplay to me.

 

[Doug B]

The whole focus of techniques taught in MMA fighting is to use physics against you. I think you are seriously overestimating yourself. We aren't talking a ring here. We are talking in the street. Plenty of room to move. More athletic and tougher doesn't help when you find yourself in a submission hold you never saw coming because you have never been in a fight.

Reductio ad absurdum: If the bolded were absolutely true, then any MMA fighter (either sex) would be able to routinely dispatch of a healthy male gorilla. The MMA fighter could use the gorilla's "physics" against it. The gorilla being stronger and tougher wouldn't matter because he'd never been trained to defend against submission holds and such. The gorilla would never see the takedown or the submission hold coming.OK. Fun's fun and all, but: I still say that you don't have to go outside the species homo sapiens to find a non-couch-potato specimen that could beat the OP's 135-lb female MMA fighter.

 

[Jayrod]

At 6'2", 220 and athletic, there are very few women in the world I don't think I could take, much less one that is 85 lbs lighter than me.

I've never been in a fight in my life, but no way in heck do I lose a real street fight to any woman who doesn't have a weapon.

If you've never been in a fight in your life you lose. Sorry but there is more to winning a fight than a weight advantage, experience means so much. If you have never taken a punch thrown in anger you have no idea how you'll react to it and you have no clue as to what to do next. Oh sure you probably rush her. Bet she's seen that before. Bet you haven't seen what happens to you next. That's where experience makes a huge difference.

There are real forces of physics involved that are huge disadvantages for her. I'm not just bigger, I'm stronger and at least fairly close in quickness. And just because I've never come to blows with someone doesn't mean I don't understand how to use leverage, use my reach advantage and keep my balance. However, as a college football (WR) & basketball player, I'm more athletic and tougher than the average Joe. I've been blindsided harder than any woman ever could hit me and taken elbows to the face that required stitches on 4 occasions.The majority of guys I know would likely lose that fight, even among the college athletes. One of the main reasons I've never been in a fight is because the other guy thought better of it on a handful of occasions.

The whole focus of techniques taught in MMA fighting is to use physics against you. I think you are seriously overestimating yourself. We aren't talking a ring here. We are talking in the street. Plenty of room to move. More athletic and tougher doesn't help when you find yourself in a submission hold you never saw coming because you have never been in a fight. Glad you intimidate people but that isn't winning a fight and a pro ain't likely to be intimidated.

How the heck is she ever going to get a hold of me? Is she going to submit me while we stand because how is she going to get me to the ground? I watched some videos of Cris Cyborg and while I'm sure she has great technique, there is no video of her fighting anyone close to my size. How would all of her technique do against me and would my size/strength combo be of any surprise to her? I'm sure she doesn't train to fight people who are 6-2, 220 so it isn't like I'd be just another day at the office for her. Things that work in her weight class would not work on me. Punches and kicks have to be a good 6-8 inches above where she normally aims. And my reach would keep her further away than she is used to. And she'd have to be vary wary that I just didn't pick her up and throw her to the ground like....well....a 145 lb woman.

 

[gsmayes]

mmmmmmmmmmm, that's good misogyny.

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

I'm sure she doesn't train to fight people who are 6-2, 220 so it isn't like I'd be just another day at the office for her.

You would die. Sorry Jayrod.

 

[SacramentoBob]

I'm sure she doesn't train to fight people who are 6-2, 220 so it isn't like I'd be just another day at the office for her.

Not exactly the best evidence in support.

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

I'm sure she doesn't train to fight people who are 6-2, 220 so it isn't like I'd be just another day at the office for her.

When I upload the Cyborg vs Jayrod showdown from the other night, you'll be a believer then.

 

[SacramentoBob]

I'm sure she doesn't train to fight people who are 6-2, 220 so it isn't like I'd be just another day at the office for her.

Right after your redneck boxing match with the champ?

 

[quickhands]

I agree with SB. Ortiz was working with her. She does look skilled though.

 

[quickhands]

also I noticed she was trying to slip in a couple arm bars an locks. She was not strong enough to sink them in.

 

[Christo]

I agree with SB. Ortiz was working with her. She does look skilled though.

There were several times she tried to take control of one of his arms with both of hers but couldn't budge him.

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

So, If Jayrod = Tito Ortiz or anything close, he could win.

Seeing as how he said he's never been in a fight in his life, I'm going to go with not likely.

 

[SacramentoBob]

So, If Jayrod = Tito Ortiz or anything close, he could win. Seeing as how he said he's never been in a fight in his life, I'm going to go with not likely.

Get on AIM, I need to update you. Serious business.

 

[quickhands]

I agree with SB. Ortiz was working with her. She does look skilled though.

There were several times she tried to take control of one of his arms with both of hers but couldn't budge him.

also if jayrod is 6'2" 215 he's gonna be dropping about 45-50 pounds on her. Tito looks about 175 or so there

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

also if jayrod is 6'2" 215 he's gonna be dropping about 45-50 pounds on her. Tito looks about 175 or so there

"I think rehab’s the biggest thing. Getting back to my full strength, you know I’m about 205 right now and this is the lightest I’ve ever been, you know, after any fights or I got as low as 199 but I may get back to about 225. My normal walk-around weight, you know, 220-225.

 

[wikkidpissah]

Havent read this thread - mostly cuz i know little about MMA but that the televised matches look like gay soft porn most of the time - but i weighed in on the b-ball, so i think i should weigh in here. My experience is that, no matter size or skill, a person in training, boxing-wise, can beat pretty much anyone not in training. Even old skills in a physically more substantial person can't top fresh skills in a fight, street or no. The rest is a matter of will - i've beaten bigger & far fitter people in scraps on will & skill (CYO boxer for just long enough to have learned summin as a kid). Dont know if this carries over intersexually - havent watched women's MMA but have seen a lot of local girl (and world champ) Holly Holm's boxing & MMA highlights and, while not overwhelmed, guess she could have done some damage if i didnt sneak one through.

 

[Jayrod]

I'm sure she doesn't train to fight people who are 6-2, 220 so it isn't like I'd be just another day at the office for her.

she is hang cleaning either 65 or 85 lbs and doing 25's on the hammer strength chest press. I would likely be working out with 115 on the hang clean and at least 35's on the chest press. And I'm at least as explosive as she is on both lifts at those weights. I don't have the endurance she does right now as I'm currently not training for anything. But I don't expect it would take me long to knock her out if I was really trying to, so endurance shouldn't be an issue.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Am I crazy for thinking the elite 135 or 145 lb female MMA fighers probably are better than 50-50 vs average Navy SEALS?