Jack Burton
Footballguy
You're right, anything is possible. But seriously anyone with two brain cells to rub together would realize that signing a contract is the only option... so maybe he wont sign.
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Crabtree (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Art Vandalay
- Start date
So your suggestion is to take an offer that already isn't good enough, and lower it? Sounds like an excellent way for the '9ers to fracture negotiations and ensure that they don't ever get the guy signed.If Crabtree's agent has and sembance of competency, then their side already understands that time is not on his side here, even without the fine/offer reduction tactic.
Multiple Scores
Footballguy
(08-30) 04:00 PDT Arlington, Texas -- Throughout his non-presence at training camp, top draft pick Michael Crabtree has been in the Bay Area, not his native Dallas. Perhaps that's an indication the 49ers will be able to sign the Texas Tech wide receiver before the regular season begins.
"It'll get done," general manager Scot McCloughan said Saturday. "What's three or four months on a five- or six-year contract?"
The thinking is that if Crabtree signs before the Sept. 13 opener at Arizona, he would be able to contribute as a rookie, although not as much as he would have had he been in training camp from the start.
Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?...L#ixzz0PgZM3GDs
"It'll get done," general manager Scot McCloughan said Saturday. "What's three or four months on a five- or six-year contract?"
The thinking is that if Crabtree signs before the Sept. 13 opener at Arizona, he would be able to contribute as a rookie, although not as much as he would have had he been in training camp from the start.
Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?...L#ixzz0PgZM3GDs
Cookiemonster
Footballguy
Mike Williams? Maurice Clarett? Bo Jackson? Bo is the only one off the top of my head that waited 'till the next year by choice, and that was only 'cause he had baseball.
Andy Herron
Footballguy
QB Kelly Stouffer.Drafted by the then St. Louis Cardinals in the first round of the 1987 draft.Couldn't agree to a contract.The following year the Cardinals traded the rights to him to Seattle.
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
haven't read whole thread, so may have been said before...
but the agent would seem to have a big vested interest in not using the nuclear option...
players want to sign & get paid & not sit out all year & hope for next draft...
doubt if the agent would want to be tainted by that kind of action...
of course, if he can get SF to blink first, maybe he earns his client more money...
but if they don't blink... the agent will have to...
i think 49ers in better position to call crabtree camp's bluff...
likely he signs the week before opening weekend (for less than DHB)...
but the agent would seem to have a big vested interest in not using the nuclear option...
players want to sign & get paid & not sit out all year & hope for next draft...
doubt if the agent would want to be tainted by that kind of action...
of course, if he can get SF to blink first, maybe he earns his client more money...
but if they don't blink... the agent will have to...
i think 49ers in better position to call crabtree camp's bluff...
likely he signs the week before opening weekend (for less than DHB)...
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SF's GM has repeatedly said he's not worried about it. I really don't think dynasty owners should be concerned by this news in the least - if anything, use this news to try lowering his value.
In redraft leagues, imo he never had a great deal of value anyhow...I'm a Niners homer so take what I say with grains of salt, but nobody significant associated with the Niners has really been that worried about Crabtree signing.
Crabtree's adviser/cousin has been the loudmouthed idiot. Crabtree isn't a Rhodes scholar, but being a genius doesn't automatically mean you'll be a great football player (else Alex Smith would be a star). If anything, he strikes to be a little Manny Ramirez like (baseball reference in the SP?!?!!) - and by that I mean a bit of a space case, a goofball, and just a little "off".
In redraft leagues, imo he never had a great deal of value anyhow...I'm a Niners homer so take what I say with grains of salt, but nobody significant associated with the Niners has really been that worried about Crabtree signing.
Crabtree's adviser/cousin has been the loudmouthed idiot. Crabtree isn't a Rhodes scholar, but being a genius doesn't automatically mean you'll be a great football player (else Alex Smith would be a star). If anything, he strikes to be a little Manny Ramirez like (baseball reference in the SP?!?!!) - and by that I mean a bit of a space case, a goofball, and just a little "off".
JuSt CuZ
Footballguy
So who are they raving about up there in San Fran to catch the ball Since crabby pants aint?
On one of the Niner homer forums, a guy with allegedly inside information has also said nobody is really that worried, things are going fairly well, and he expects Crabtree to sign "soon".
There are also rumors coming from different, and unknown, sources saying Crabtree will sign right around when the season starts.
There are also rumors coming from different, and unknown, sources saying Crabtree will sign right around when the season starts.
Louisville Slugger
Footballguy
I can't see anyone turning their back on that kind of money. It's in both sides interest to get a deal done. I'm fairly confident Crabtree will sign before opening day.As to how effective he will be that a totally different question. Assuming Crabtree signs before the season begins it will take him a while to get use to the system. The best you could hope for is that his his contributions are felt around mid season.
Bingo!That was my call. and I'm guessing 50-60 yards per game at that time. His real impact will be next year.
Multiple Scores
Footballguy
September 4, 2009
No cash flow problem for Crabtree
If Michael Crabtree doesn't sign his contract by the time the first game checks are handed out late next week, he'll start losing money. But it's not as if the rookie wide receiver doesn't have a bit of change in his pocket already. After the college season, Crabtree was perhaps the most popular player heading into the draft - USC quarterback Mark Sanchez was his only competition in that regard - and he signed a number of endorsement deals at the time.
Among them were deals with EA Sports, Subway, Nike's Jordan Brand sneakers, three trading card companies and MogoTXT. Interestingly, that last deal requires Crabtree to update his followers with occasional messages. His latest, on Aug. 24:
MichaelCrabtree:Hey peps just hollaring at u i am still working hard getting stronger and faster oh yea i am ready to go so i can put on a show 4 ya
Sent 3:05:30 PM Mon Aug 24 '09
The post before that one may be more meaningful because it came on Aug. 7, a day after reports surfaced that Crabtree was threatening to sit out the entire season and re-enter the 2010 draft.
MichaelCrabtree:What up peps yeah this ur boy crab just want to say dont belive the hype i am ready to this thing in the bay i am putting the gym just on the low until its time to go!,do it 4 uSent 12:26:06 PM Fri Aug 7 '09
Crabtree also has money heading his way from jersey sales. According to Darren Rovell of CNBC.com, a look at NFL jersey sales from the first four months of the fiscal year shows that Crabtree's No. 15 jersey ranks 20th in the league. Among rookies, he is only behind Sanchez, a starter for the Jets. NFL players get about 6 percent every time their jersey is sold.
Rovell does note that the fact that Crabtree hasn't signed is hurting jersey sales. Crabtree was ranked No. 8 in sales in early August. It's also hard to see Crabtree signing any new deals considering he has yet to even practice with the 49ers. Still, one of his marketing managers, Peter Miller of Jabez Marketing Group, said that rookies typically don't have a lot of endorsement opportunities at the beginning of the season anyway. "That's when they're concentrating on football," Miller said. "I don't think we ever had a plan to do anything in August."
Here's the entire list from sales on NFLShop.com from the NFL's first four months of the fiscal year. Courtesy of CNBC.com.
1. Brett Favre, Vikings
2. Jay Cutler, Bears
3. Troy Polamalu, Steelers
4. Michael Vick, Eagles
5. Ben Roethlisberger, Steelers
6. Tony Romo, Cowboys
7. Mark Sanchez, Jets
8. Tom Brady, Patriots
9. Adrian Peterson, Vikings
10. Eli Manning, Giants
11. Terrell Owens, Bills
12. Peyton Manning, Colts
13. Hines Ward, Steelers
14. LaDainian Tomlinson, Chargers
15. Jason Witten, Cowboys
16. Larry Fitzgerald, Cardinals
17. Joe Flacco, Ravens
18. Matt Ryan, Falcons
19. Aaron Rodgers, Packers
20. Michael Crabtree, 49ers
-- Matt Barrows
No cash flow problem for Crabtree
If Michael Crabtree doesn't sign his contract by the time the first game checks are handed out late next week, he'll start losing money. But it's not as if the rookie wide receiver doesn't have a bit of change in his pocket already. After the college season, Crabtree was perhaps the most popular player heading into the draft - USC quarterback Mark Sanchez was his only competition in that regard - and he signed a number of endorsement deals at the time.
Among them were deals with EA Sports, Subway, Nike's Jordan Brand sneakers, three trading card companies and MogoTXT. Interestingly, that last deal requires Crabtree to update his followers with occasional messages. His latest, on Aug. 24:
MichaelCrabtree:Hey peps just hollaring at u i am still working hard getting stronger and faster oh yea i am ready to go so i can put on a show 4 ya
Sent 3:05:30 PM Mon Aug 24 '09
The post before that one may be more meaningful because it came on Aug. 7, a day after reports surfaced that Crabtree was threatening to sit out the entire season and re-enter the 2010 draft.
MichaelCrabtree:What up peps yeah this ur boy crab just want to say dont belive the hype i am ready to this thing in the bay i am putting the gym just on the low until its time to go!,do it 4 uSent 12:26:06 PM Fri Aug 7 '09
Crabtree also has money heading his way from jersey sales. According to Darren Rovell of CNBC.com, a look at NFL jersey sales from the first four months of the fiscal year shows that Crabtree's No. 15 jersey ranks 20th in the league. Among rookies, he is only behind Sanchez, a starter for the Jets. NFL players get about 6 percent every time their jersey is sold.
Rovell does note that the fact that Crabtree hasn't signed is hurting jersey sales. Crabtree was ranked No. 8 in sales in early August. It's also hard to see Crabtree signing any new deals considering he has yet to even practice with the 49ers. Still, one of his marketing managers, Peter Miller of Jabez Marketing Group, said that rookies typically don't have a lot of endorsement opportunities at the beginning of the season anyway. "That's when they're concentrating on football," Miller said. "I don't think we ever had a plan to do anything in August."
Here's the entire list from sales on NFLShop.com from the NFL's first four months of the fiscal year. Courtesy of CNBC.com.
1. Brett Favre, Vikings
2. Jay Cutler, Bears
3. Troy Polamalu, Steelers
4. Michael Vick, Eagles
5. Ben Roethlisberger, Steelers
6. Tony Romo, Cowboys
7. Mark Sanchez, Jets
8. Tom Brady, Patriots
9. Adrian Peterson, Vikings
10. Eli Manning, Giants
11. Terrell Owens, Bills
12. Peyton Manning, Colts
13. Hines Ward, Steelers
14. LaDainian Tomlinson, Chargers
15. Jason Witten, Cowboys
16. Larry Fitzgerald, Cardinals
17. Joe Flacco, Ravens
18. Matt Ryan, Falcons
19. Aaron Rodgers, Packers
20. Michael Crabtree, 49ers
-- Matt Barrows
CiscoKid
Footballguy
There is a difference in simply lowering the offer and telling the player that the best offer has already been placed on the table, and that the offer will start reducing by <some date> if an agreement isn't made. He's holding out right now for unreasonable money based on his slot in hopes of getting more than the fair market offer on the table - providing a deadline along with ramifications for not meeting that deadline very well might have expedited him signing. IMHO, it's already to late for this to make much of a difference now - I think he would have needed to get into camp a few weeks ago to have any impact this season.
Jestefarean
Footballguy
If he sits out all season and goes back into the draft I'd love to see the 9ers draft him again and put the exact same offer on the board!
crnerblitz
Footballguy
Deion Sanders had a chat about Crabtree on NFL Network tonight and I have to say. Michael Irvin needs to know that primetime has been hittin your stash.
Deion straight faced said Crabtree is willing to sit a year. Needs real money above his draft slot and that this is what is best for Crabs. Really? Those are some fine points to ponder if you happen to have outperformed your current contract. Otherwise you just look like your livin in Deionland.
Deion straight faced said Crabtree is willing to sit a year. Needs real money above his draft slot and that this is what is best for Crabs. Really? Those are some fine points to ponder if you happen to have outperformed your current contract. Otherwise you just look like your livin in Deionland.
Touchdown Syndrome
Footballguy
Lol, of course they wouldn't, since he wouldn't be a top 10 pick next year after missing a year of football (and showing a lack of "signability"). Would be funny though.Moot point....no way he skips the season and reenters in 2010. He has no leverage in the situation...he absolutely will sign. It's just nonsense that sports writers and sports radio hacks like to fantasize about.They know there are millions of mooks who eat this crap up.
derek19
Footballguy
Deion made a comment saying "two teams contacted the 49ers about trading for the rights of crabtree and willing to pay him 40mil". Per MM's twitter, a 49ers spokesman said MattMaioccoDeion Sanders says two teams contacted 49ers about a trade for Crabtree. Says 49ers spokesman, "Those conversations never took place."
this is interesting as well: MattMaioccoDid Deion Sanders really say he knows 2 teams that would pay Crabtree $40M? Wouldn't that be tampering?
this is interesting as well: MattMaioccoDid Deion Sanders really say he knows 2 teams that would pay Crabtree $40M? Wouldn't that be tampering?
cobalt_27
Footballguy
There is no possible way that Crabtree and his advisers are truly stupid enough to let him sit out the entire year. He will sign with the 49ers. Probably in the next 5 days. He'll be on the bench the majority of the 1st half of the season and then get integrated into the offense after the bye or something. But, he is not going to jeopardize this year's pay, in addition to the colossal reduction in contract that he would sign next year to whatever team drafts him. It's just not possible he's stupid enough to let that happen.
He'll be a signed Niner very soon.
He'll be a signed Niner very soon.
DoubleG
Footballguy
Sanders' agent = Crabtree's agent. Sanders is just trying to drum up business for his old agent. Sad really. Every now and then Deion does omething that reminds why he played some WR - because he sure is an attention...ahh, I don't even know how to spell it, and it's probably going to filtered out anyway.
puckalicious
Footballguy
So the real problem appears to be that Deion is the one advising Crab. Guy is a complete idiot.
BaBastage
Footballguy
Bingo. Talk about young talent hanging out with the wrong trash.
Loomba
Footballguy
What happens with respect to the 49ers rights to Crabtree sits out the year and re-enters the draft? At what point do the 49ers lose their rights to sign/trade Crabtree? And at what point does Crabtree lose his NFL status for the purposes of being on a fantasy roster?
I ask because Crabtree is currently being drafted in nearly all fantasy leagues and I am wondering about the implications to fantasy leagues.
When could a team that owns Crabtree now have to drop him in fantasy so he can be re-drafted in the NFL and subsequently re-drafted in fantasy? Or would a fantasy team simply get to keep him throughout the whole process?
In salary cap leagues, some owners will likely want to drop him to free up cap space but may be loathe to do so if competitors and pick him up as a free agent in the league. Thus, they may be forced to keep Crabtree all year or wait until he is no longer an "NFL player" so he can be safely dropped and reacquired in next year's fantasy draft/auction.
TIA for any thoughts or insights.
I ask because Crabtree is currently being drafted in nearly all fantasy leagues and I am wondering about the implications to fantasy leagues.
When could a team that owns Crabtree now have to drop him in fantasy so he can be re-drafted in the NFL and subsequently re-drafted in fantasy? Or would a fantasy team simply get to keep him throughout the whole process?
In salary cap leagues, some owners will likely want to drop him to free up cap space but may be loathe to do so if competitors and pick him up as a free agent in the league. Thus, they may be forced to keep Crabtree all year or wait until he is no longer an "NFL player" so he can be safely dropped and reacquired in next year's fantasy draft/auction.
TIA for any thoughts or insights.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
I assume the 49ers own his rights right up until he makes himself available for the 2010 draft. As far as fantasy goes, no team in a dynasty or keeper league should lose his rights once he's been drafted by a fantasy team.
DoubleG
Footballguy
Agree 100%. In a dynasty league I'm in, guys regularly draft/keep guys that are not technically part of the NFL at all (Matt Jones, Michael Vick, Rickie Williams, Favre when he was retired...each time, etc.) Also, when someone is traded, the owner obviously keeps him on his fantasy team.
baconisgood
Footballguy
Deon Sanders isn't an official anything for any team- it would be near impossible to prove that the rumors he is spreading represents tampering.
offdee
Footballguy
Not sure if it's been mentioned anywhere in this thread, but my personal belief is that the surgery on his foot has a little something to do with all of this chaos.
Think of it from Crabtree's point of view....if he thinks his foot isn't 100% and still needed an extra month of personal rehab and healing before going full bore on it in pre-season games and practices why not use his contract as a way to buy him some extra time?
Rather than signing right away and not playing at 100% (and risking re-injury) buy some more healing time by holding out and in the end possibly make yourself that much richer as well.
No reports anywhere that I know of as being the case, but just my personal theory I've been thinking for a while now.
Think of it from Crabtree's point of view....if he thinks his foot isn't 100% and still needed an extra month of personal rehab and healing before going full bore on it in pre-season games and practices why not use his contract as a way to buy him some extra time?
Rather than signing right away and not playing at 100% (and risking re-injury) buy some more healing time by holding out and in the end possibly make yourself that much richer as well.
No reports anywhere that I know of as being the case, but just my personal theory I've been thinking for a while now.
DoubleG
Footballguy
I thought of that - but he could end up costing himself ALOT more money in the long run, for:1) Being perceived as a "me-first" player (good luck signing with a team when that rookie contract runs out)
2) Being perceived as another one of "those" athletes - kiss endorsement money goodbye.
3) What if the 49ers don't budge? Does he sign anyway? If not, he just cost himself the contract and a year of his NFL career. Not too smart. He likely won't be offered more money next year.
Personally, I think who ever is advising him is a complete idiot. Generally speaking, rookies who hold out have a difficult time adjusting to the stigma/missed time/teammates etc. Yes, there may be some exceptions, but it's not worth the risks, imho.
ETA: "likely" in the last sentance of point 3 - with owners like Al Davis and Jerry Jones, one never knows.
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Childress
Footballguy
Or maybe it is even a John Stewart situation where the injury might possibly hamper his entire career and he thinks he might not be able to get another big contract and he wants as much as he can get?
massraider
Footballguy
If a player is willing to hold out for the entire season, miss a year of salary, and a year of service towards FA, I have no problem with them going back into the draft. That's giving up a lot.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
massraider said:
Not to mention that he will likely go later in the draft the following year.Personally I think Crabtree is making a big mistake.
Balco
Footballguy
For thsoe reasons, I just can't see Crabtree not signing.He sits out a year, misses an entire years salary (and substantial signing bonus). Teams will shy away from him because of this situation so he will go later, and therefore the team slecting him will offer him far less money that is being offered now. It is just a horrible decision.I expect him to sign in the next couple of weeks.massraider said:
massraider
Footballguy
Oh, me too. I wish I could bet on it.For thsoe reasons, I just can't see Crabtree not signing.He sits out a year, misses an entire years salary (and substantial signing bonus). Teams will shy away from him because of this situation so he will go later, and therefore the team slecting him will offer him far less money that is being offered now. It is just a horrible decision.I expect him to sign in the next couple of weeks.massraider said:
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Like heck it would put and end to this.Your idea would simply transfer a significant amount of leverage to the owners/teams, who would undoubtedly use it to lowball guys, thereby creating the very same situation where the player and team are at an impasse over (somewhat less) money.So if in the present case the '9ers are offering $25M and Crabtree wants $30M, under your system the '9ers would be offering $20M and Crabtree would be holding out for $25M.Now driving down rookie contracts is a worthwhile topic to discuss, but don't think that holdouts won't still happen.Da Guru said:
crnerblitz
Footballguy
Yes, yes. i do believe it was mentioned on the same broadcast that if Crabs does sit out the year. The 49'ers would continue to hold his rights right up until the day before the 2010 draft. There was some mention of no combine and he would have to have some kind of personal pro day. But could he really have a pro day with pro scouts if the 49'ers still hold his rights. Just showing up would be tampering.massraider said:
derek19
Footballguy
Twilight
Footballguy
He could have workouts the morning of the draft, if he wanted. But no legitimate contact before then.He IS tradeable though. After March 1st
I think 50-60 yards/game would have been optimistic even had he been signed on time for camp. Unless the Niners and/or their receivers completely fall apart in the first few games, I would expect Crabtree to be the team's #3/4 WR.
derek19
Footballguy
T Bell
Footballguy
Yes. And?
DoubleG
Footballguy
The best part of the whole article, and the reason Crabtree will sign unless he is a complete moron: Crabtree would be the first first-round pick to sit out the season since quarterback Kelly Stouffer in 1987.
Stouffer had a 5 year career, ending his less-than Pro Bowl career with a passer rating of 54.5, throwing a total of 7 TDs, 19 INTs and being sacked 50 times.
stevegamer
Footballguy
Ugh, Kelly Stouffer memories. I think I speak for all Seahawks fans: 
If I'm the 49ers, I let him sit out all year, and then I work with him to trade his rights away in the off-season or I give him permission to seek a trade now. either way, I'd be done with him. And please, not Seattle.
If I'm the 49ers, I let him sit out all year, and then I work with him to trade his rights away in the off-season or I give him permission to seek a trade now. either way, I'd be done with him. And please, not Seattle.
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derek19
Footballguy
Can't trade an unsigned draftee until March. The deadline to trade him was around 14th of august or something.Ugh, Kelly Stouffer memories. I think I speak for all Seahawks fans:
jurb26
Footballguy
Who cares is more like it. For redraft anyway. The guy will be basically useless even if he does sign at this point.
CapnJB
Footballguy
Ahhh, the Bozworth/Stouffer years.Ugh, Kelly Stouffer memories. I think I speak for all Seahawks fans:
Good thing they didn't last that long and we ushered in the Rick Mirer years! 
NeverEnough
Footballguy
He's worth a flier in keeper & dynasty leagues. I grabbed him late in my keeper league as my WR5.
stevegamer
Footballguy
Boz made sense, Stouffer not so much.Honestly, i think he best thing for the 49ers is to shut down negotiations, avoid the distractions, and deal him when able - which apparently is March. I don't htink they get a compensatory pick if he doesn't sign, does anyone know?Ahhh, the Bozworth/Stouffer years.Ugh, Kelly Stouffer memories. I think I speak for all Seahawks fans:
Good thing they didn't last that long and we ushered in the Rick Mirer years!
Mr. Peterson
Footballguy
Not sure if this has been mentioned in this thread or not, but do you think it's a good time to go after Crabtree in a Dynasty league right now or just a waste?
