Saints-Man
Footballguy
Dropped in a redraft(for Meachem(NO)) and kept him in a dynasty.
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Crabtree (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Art Vandalay
- Start date
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
He could wait and hope for a trade before next years draft.
FavreCo
Footballguy
Doesn't the idiot have to be signed to be traded at this point?
Caption this photo: http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/RVgCnppBME9...ichael+Crabtree
Caption this photo: http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/RVgCnppBME9...ichael+Crabtree
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
I think the 49ers own his rights and can trade him after March 31 2010. I am trying to figure out where I read that....
baconisgood
Footballguy
Being an arrogant **** during team interviews and dropping 5 draft spots becasue of it- cost 10 million dollarsHolding out for a better contract with no chance of getting one- Cost 10 million dollars
Having to work at subway to make ends meet until next years draft- Priceless.
Kitrick Taylor
Footballguy
So which team would be crazy enough to trade for this guy? He obviously won't sign for less than DHB and he's showing a ton of diva like qualities already. He will have missed playing football for an entire NFL season, and the team will have no idea if he can actually play in this league. Most teams dislike picking at the top of the draft due to the uncertainty of what you are getting, and the huge amount of guaranteed money involved. Dallas just got rid of TO because he was a headcase.
Oakland passed on Crabtree in this past draft.
Washington?
Minnesota?
If SF wanted to stick it to Crabtree they wouldn't trade him. Then there's almost no chance he goes higher than he did this year. At that point whomever drafts him will realize they will have a nightmare trying to get this guy signed. He could legitimately slip into rd 2 or 3.
THE UNDERCOVER BROTHA
Footballguy
How much is this guy worth in dynasty.
I know most will still say 1st round pick.
But its not looking good for him right now.
Is this a guy you are targeting in dynasty as a buy low?
I know most will still say 1st round pick.
But its not looking good for him right now.
Is this a guy you are targeting in dynasty as a buy low?
NeverEnough
Footballguy
(Rotoworld) 49ers co-owner Jed York has offered to meet face-to-face with unsigned first-round pick Michael Crabtree, but hasn't had his phone calls returned by Crabtree's agent, Eugene Parker.
http://blog.pressdemocrat.com/49ers/2009/0...-in-person.html
http://blog.pressdemocrat.com/49ers/2009/0...-in-person.html
BuckeyeArt
Footballguy
Whay would any college player ever sign with Parker again? His silence makes him look like just as much of an idiot as Crabtree.
For The Dawgs
Footballguy
Funny thing is that Mangini called him out during a visit saying he seemed to be a prima dona. It caused some reaction around the league, cause Mangini (according to some on this board) can't do anything right. Crabtree's college coach blasted Mangini too. It turns out that I believe Mangini was correct in his assessment and very wise to steer clear of him of draft day.
True that...i remember that uproar. i wonder what his college coach has to say about him now...
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Righetti
Footballguy
what gets me about Crabtree is the simple math
he wants $40 over 5 years
the 9ers offer $30 over 5
if he sits out he would have to make $40 over 4 years to have the same net-income over the five-year span.
In order to get there he would have to be drafted in the 2010 draft at about spot #5 (assuming CBA is in place etc.).. his actions so far this off-season will probably mean he'll get draft later not earlier in next year's draft so from a pure financial position I can't imagine this can every be justified
he wants $40 over 5 years
the 9ers offer $30 over 5
if he sits out he would have to make $40 over 4 years to have the same net-income over the five-year span.
In order to get there he would have to be drafted in the 2010 draft at about spot #5 (assuming CBA is in place etc.).. his actions so far this off-season will probably mean he'll get draft later not earlier in next year's draft so from a pure financial position I can't imagine this can every be justified
valhallan
Footballguy
I think in dynasty you need to figure out a way to unload this guy. He doesn't love the game, if he did he wouldn't be able to stand sitting at home like this. The chronicles of the NFL are littered with talented guys that fell flat because they didn't have the fire to play hard. A guy like TO is a prima donna too, but you can't question his off-season preparation or fire for the game.
FavreCo
Footballguy
Exactly. HE will bust in a huge way...if he even ever signs.
Casting Couch
Footballguy
I agree he should be unloaded, but not now. The time to trade him would be if and when he signs.If he doesn't sign, he will be dead roster weight for a long long time.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
Did Eric Dickerson and Dan Marino have the fire to play hard?
Multiple Scores
Footballguy
I'm having a hard time understanding how the owner of the team calls the agent and 1.) It goes to voice mail 2.) The call has not been returned.
Whether this is Eugene Parkers decision to call back or not this should hurt him as an agent, at least call the owner of the team back.
Whether this is Eugene Parkers decision to call back or not this should hurt him as an agent, at least call the owner of the team back.
Kitrick Taylor
Footballguy
Seems like a lot of people are ready to condemn this guys career already. I agree this isn't the best way to start it, but the assumptions being made here are getting ridiculous. He just turned 22 two days ago. I think trading him now would be a big mistake in dynasty.
DoubleG
Footballguy
Teenage girls who are mad don't return phone calls. Professionals do. Even if you call back to say "No, I'm sorry, we do not wish to meet with you at this time." you call back. There seem to be way too many egos involved in this situation for it to end well. I actually kind of (just a tiny bit) feel bad for Crabtree. His agent aint doing him any favors, nor are his "advisors" - he's in the process of royally screwing up his entire career - one that could have been incredible, and doesn't seem to understand that.
massraider
Footballguy
I don't think we know who is driving the bus here. For all we know, Parker wants him to sign. It simply might be that Crabtree refuses to take less than DHB.Props to the Raiders for doing their homework, and avoiding this nightmare.Teenage girls who are mad don't return phone calls. Professionals do. Even if you call back to say "No, I'm sorry, we do not wish to meet with you at this time." you call back. There seem to be way too many egos involved in this situation for it to end well. I actually kind of (just a tiny bit) feel bad for Crabtree. His agent aint doing him any favors, nor are his "advisors" - he's in the process of royally screwing up his entire career - one that could have been incredible, and doesn't seem to understand that.
I think this probably ought to be filed under "don't believe everything you read".Absent any other relevant info that may have been left out, the notion that this agent would not return phonecalls from the team's upper management and/or ownership defies belief.
Magnus_CA
Footballguy
I think they have their hands full with Prima-Donna-numero-uno Jamarcus Russell. If only they had a lick of sense when dealing with his holdout. I hope they're taking notes.I don't think we know who is driving the bus here. For all we know, Parker wants him to sign. It simply might be that Crabtree refuses to take less than DHB.
Props to the Raiders for doing their homework, and avoiding this nightmare.
massraider
Footballguy
They took notes before the draft, and obviously saw the character flaws that led to Crabtree's holdout. Just good scouting you know?I think they have their hands full with Prima-Donna-numero-uno Jamarcus Russell. If only they had a lick of sense when dealing with his holdout. I hope they're taking notes.I don't think we know who is driving the bus here. For all we know, Parker wants him to sign. It simply might be that Crabtree refuses to take less than DHB.
Props to the Raiders for doing their homework, and avoiding this nightmare.
baconisgood
Footballguy
That still doesn't explain why they took DHB.They took notes before the draft, and obviously saw the character flaws that led to Crabtree's holdout. Just good scouting you know?I think they have their hands full with Prima-Donna-numero-uno Jamarcus Russell. If only they had a lick of sense when dealing with his holdout. I hope they're taking notes.I don't think we know who is driving the bus here. For all we know, Parker wants him to sign. It simply might be that Crabtree refuses to take less than DHB.
Props to the Raiders for doing their homework, and avoiding this nightmare.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
I think it's obviously tough to assume that Crabtree would have held out if he was a Raider. I think it's also far from obvious that DHB will be worth the 7th pick in the draft or be better than Crabtree.They took notes before the draft, and obviously saw the character flaws that led to Crabtree's holdout. Just good scouting you know?I think they have their hands full with Prima-Donna-numero-uno Jamarcus Russell. If only they had a lick of sense when dealing with his holdout. I hope they're taking notes.I don't think we know who is driving the bus here. For all we know, Parker wants him to sign. It simply might be that Crabtree refuses to take less than DHB.
Props to the Raiders for doing their homework, and avoiding this nightmare.
inzanitee
Footballguy
Good scouting???That still doesn't explain why they took DHB.They took notes before the draft, and obviously saw the character flaws that led to Crabtree's holdout. Just good scouting you know?I think they have their hands full with Prima-Donna-numero-uno Jamarcus Russell. If only they had a lick of sense when dealing with his holdout. I hope they're taking notes.I don't think we know who is driving the bus here. For all we know, Parker wants him to sign. It simply might be that Crabtree refuses to take less than DHB.
Props to the Raiders for doing their homework, and avoiding this nightmare.
massraider
Footballguy
No one seemed to be waiting to make that call on draft day.I think it's obviously tough to assume that Crabtree would have held out if he was a Raider. I think it's also far from obvious that DHB will be worth the 7th pick in the draft or be better than Crabtree.They took notes before the draft, and obviously saw the character flaws that led to Crabtree's holdout. Just good scouting you know?I think they have their hands full with Prima-Donna-numero-uno Jamarcus Russell. If only they had a lick of sense when dealing with his holdout. I hope they're taking notes.I don't think we know who is driving the bus here. For all we know, Parker wants him to sign. It simply might be that Crabtree refuses to take less than DHB.
Props to the Raiders for doing their homework, and avoiding this nightmare.
NeverEnough
Footballguy
I drafted him in my keeper league & dropped him a couple days ago. I had no cap room and would like to make waiver moves. I couldn't afford the dead weight
massraider
Footballguy
Actually, I was kidding, and thought the little winky smiley in the previous post made that clear. But if people want to play the ball of yarn, I'll play the cat.I hated the DHB pick, and wanted Crabtree bad. No revisionist history from me. But considering how happy he seemed to be when the Raiders passed, and this absurd holdout, I am starting to think we dodged a bullet. DHB still needs to prove he is good, but then again, so does Crabtree, doesn't he? And our guy is signed, and working hard.Good scouting???That still doesn't explain why they took DHB.They took notes before the draft, and obviously saw the character flaws that led to Crabtree's holdout. Just good scouting you know?I think they have their hands full with Prima-Donna-numero-uno Jamarcus Russell. If only they had a lick of sense when dealing with his holdout. I hope they're taking notes.I don't think we know who is driving the bus here. For all we know, Parker wants him to sign. It simply might be that Crabtree refuses to take less than DHB.
Props to the Raiders for doing their homework, and avoiding this nightmare.
Funny how JaMarcus' holdout was all the fault of the kooky Raiders, and senile Al Davis, and this holdout is all Crabtree's fault.
I wish no ill will to the 49ers fans, sucks the way this is going down, but there sure were a lot of tee-hees when we took DHB, and right now, I would prefer our situation.
seatownfavorite
Footballguy
Wouldn't the simple option at this point be to fire his agent, and get a new one that will sign to save face? Finger point and act like a child, but get on the team and start making money now. This really make no sense and I would be reducing my offer drastically if I was the 49ers. I would even layout a contract decrease timeline so he could see in simple terms what he is losing week-by-week.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
Its more a case of "read more carefully" than "don't believe everything you read". No one is reporting that Parker is refusing to call York back, only that York put the offer on the table - apparently sometime yesterday - and hadn't heard back as of the time he was contacted by this reporter. Eugene Parker is an extremely successful NFL agent with a very impressive client list. He is famous for hitting home runs with several big time players, including his famous deal for Deion Sanders that caused the NFL to change its rookie salary rules. He did Greg Jennings' blockbuster deal last month without so much as a peep in the media. He also got a deal for Larry Fitzgerald that was the largest rookie contract ever at the time, even though Fitz was drafted #3 that year (his contract was worth more total $$ than Eli Manning got after going 1st in the 2004 draft).davearm said:I think this probably ought to be filed under "don't believe everything you read".Absent any other relevant info that may have been left out, the notion that this agent would not return phonecalls from the team's upper management and/or ownership defies belief.DoubleG said:Multiple Scores said:Teenage girls who are mad don't return phone calls. Professionals do. Even if you call back to say "No, I'm sorry, we do not wish to meet with you at this time." you call back. There seem to be way too many egos involved in this situation for it to end well. I actually kind of (just a tiny bit) feel bad for Crabtree. His agent aint doing him any favors, nor are his "advisors" - he's in the process of royally screwing up his entire career - one that could have been incredible, and doesn't seem to understand that.
valhallan
Footballguy
And then there's Michael Westbrook.Anyway, I was really talking about receivers, which is why I pointed to TO. Dynasty is an inexact science to say the least, so we have to develop some method of making short-term judgments with long-term consequences. Personally, I think receivers need to have the intensity, dedication, and off-season conditioning programs that rival quarterbacks. Guys like Colston, Fitzgerald, and Royal hit the ground running due to their fire for the game and preparation and those are the guys I look for in a young dynasty WR. Crabtree smacks of poor work ethic with this holdout and I'd be moving him in dynasty. But that's just my own philosophy.Chase Stuart said:
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
What does a holdout have to do with work ethic?
valhallan
Footballguy
Nevermind, I really don't feel like playing this game today.
CravenM
Footballguy
I'll jump in.I would say work ethic has a lot to do with "Honest day's work for an honest day's pay", honoring a contract/agreement, not acting to the detriment of the company, and so forth. So I would agree - it's not work ethic.
It does however reflect the work character of Crabtree in that:
- he's choosing not to work due his self-evaluation
- he will likely be the first to hold out when he has a great season and is not making top-5-WR money in the later years of his contract
- he is heavily influenced by an advisor who may not necessarily have his best interest in mind
There's a time a to use your perceived leverage in a business deal and a time not to. I think NFL teams have let this type of leverage work for a long time to their detriment so I think it's a good thing that SF is taking a serious stand. They've seen other teams with much more successful seasons that didn't kowtow to the 1st round pick or at least had the good sense to judge his work character before drafting him.
One more thing about Deion Sanders holdout a while ago (in Atlanta): I remember him making an asinine statement that the Falcon owners (Rankin Smith at the time) had a "plantation mentality" with his offer. That turned the opinion of most Atlantans against him ever since (including me). Hopefully Crabtree won't take that tack.
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LittlePhatty
Footballguy
This is it right here.Stoopid does as stoopid is advised.
Trap Play
Footballguy
Why? What are or aren't they doing?
Kitrick Taylor
Footballguy
As mentioned earlier, Eugene Parker is a well respected agent. Some of Parker's clients include:Hines Ward (Super Bowl XL MVP and four-time Pro Bowler)Richard Seymour (4 time All Pro)Walter Jones (5 time All Pro)Emmitt Smith (NFL all time leading rusher)Larry Fitzgerald (All Pro)Derrick Brooks (9 time All Pro)Rod Woodson (11 time All Pro)Aeneas Williams (8 time All Pro)Rex Grossman (Super Bowl QB)Devin Hester (NFL record holder, All Pro)Cedric Benson (Super Bowl running back)Curtis Martin (5 time All Pro)Laveranues Coles (All Pro receiver)Jason Peters (All Pro left tackle)James Hardy (Bills 2008 2nd Round Draft Pick)Greg Jennings (Green Bay Packers, 2006 2nd Round Draft Pick)Felix Jones (Cowboys 2008 1st Round Draft Pick]Tashard Choice (Cowboys 2008 3rd Round Draft Pick)Steven Jackson (St. Louis Rams star running back)Tyson Jackson (Kansas City Chiefs 2009 1st Round Draft Pick)Michael Crabtree (San Francisco 49ers 2009 1st Round Draft Pick)
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
IMO, you can't fault a guy for not honoring his contract when he feels he's outplayed his contract AND for not signing a contract in the first place. Don't those sorts of things contradict each other?People always say people like Brandon Marshall should live up to the deal he signed; "if he didn't like it when he signed it, he never should have signed it!" is a common refrain. It seems hypocritical to then get mad at Crabtree for, ya know, not signing when he doesn't like. Is the refrain now "sign whatever they tell you to sign, and then don't complain about what you signed!"?
seatownfavorite
Footballguy
Well played sir.
Kitrick Taylor
Footballguy
Andrew Brandt from the National Football Post, (also former cap guru for the Packers) had this to say today.
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Wednes...n-signings.html
Why are the financial consequences of the Michael Crabtree holdout not severe enough to cause a dramatic reaction?
AP
Michael Crabtree
The way that contracts of top rookies are structured allows Crabtree to continue to be absent without dramatic financial consequences. Unlike veteran contracts, such as those of Richard Seymour and Dunta Robinson, both of whom reported in the last week in order to receive hundreds of thousands of dollars in Week 1 salary, rookie contracts are structured much differently and, in an odd twist, in a way that does not discourage this type of behavior.
As with many of the first-round deals negotiated this and every year, Crabtree's base salary this season will be at or close to minimum. The bulk of his compensation -- both this year and for the contract as a whole -- will be in bonuses: roster bonus, option bonus, signing bonus, one-time incentive bonus, future workout bonuses, etc. So the only amount Crabtree has potentially lost on his contract by missing the first game is 1/17th of the rookie minimum ($310,000), or approximately $18,000.
That is, of course, unless the 49ers are "modifying" their offer with each missed game (more on that below).
An area of the contract that a long absence could affect is the escalator, a mechanism to increase future salary and, in some cases, bonus payments based on established levels of performance. For a receiver, the levels revolve around number of receptions, reception yardage and touchdowns. Establishing the thresholds for these levels and the amounts accorded to each is a process that can take longer than the negotiation for the hard money of the contract (I speak from experience, having just participated in negotiating Jeremy Maclin’s contract with the Eagles).
Crabtree has missed one game and there’s no end in sight, thus reducing his chance for early production on his contract. The levels of production may still not be agreed on, but his chances to earn escalators based on 2009 production will continue to dwindle.
So why is Crabtree continuing to hold out?
For the same reason Brett Favre could continue to make the Vikings wait on a decision --because he can. Crabtree has an offer on the table that essentially matches the deal given to the pick above him, the Packers’ B.J. Raji. Now the president of the team and son of the owner, Jed York, has reportedly requested a meeting. That’s a sign the 49ers are still negotiating in good faith with no sign of contentiousness. Until the 49ers present significant consequences to not taking that deal, which my source says they have not done, Crabtree feels he can continue to wait.
Why is the threat to reduce the offer to Michael Crabtree a risky one?
AP
Will Crabtree ever don the 49ers uniform?
It isn’t, as long as the team is prepared to follow through with the threat. If not, the threat is a hollow one and will demonstrate to Crabtree and the rest of the team that the front office has more bark than bite. Crabtree and his agent, Eugene Parker, know they have the leverage of being a player the team was thrilled to draft and sees a strong future for.
We have reached a test of wills in San Francisco; Parker and Crabtree continue to have faith that the 49ers will blink first. Despite reports that Crabtree will sit out the season and enter the 2010 draft, I don't believe it for a second. He has until Nov. 17 to sign before that can become a reality. That’s a long time.
I agree that there is no way the Crabtree camp goes back into the draft next year. He's just playing every bit of leverage that he can. He's already got the 49ers bidding up to $1 of BJ Raji's deal. There's way too many risks involved to go back into the next draft. Parker and Crabtree know that.
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Wednes...n-signings.html
Why are the financial consequences of the Michael Crabtree holdout not severe enough to cause a dramatic reaction?
AP
Michael Crabtree
The way that contracts of top rookies are structured allows Crabtree to continue to be absent without dramatic financial consequences. Unlike veteran contracts, such as those of Richard Seymour and Dunta Robinson, both of whom reported in the last week in order to receive hundreds of thousands of dollars in Week 1 salary, rookie contracts are structured much differently and, in an odd twist, in a way that does not discourage this type of behavior.
As with many of the first-round deals negotiated this and every year, Crabtree's base salary this season will be at or close to minimum. The bulk of his compensation -- both this year and for the contract as a whole -- will be in bonuses: roster bonus, option bonus, signing bonus, one-time incentive bonus, future workout bonuses, etc. So the only amount Crabtree has potentially lost on his contract by missing the first game is 1/17th of the rookie minimum ($310,000), or approximately $18,000.
That is, of course, unless the 49ers are "modifying" their offer with each missed game (more on that below).
An area of the contract that a long absence could affect is the escalator, a mechanism to increase future salary and, in some cases, bonus payments based on established levels of performance. For a receiver, the levels revolve around number of receptions, reception yardage and touchdowns. Establishing the thresholds for these levels and the amounts accorded to each is a process that can take longer than the negotiation for the hard money of the contract (I speak from experience, having just participated in negotiating Jeremy Maclin’s contract with the Eagles).
Crabtree has missed one game and there’s no end in sight, thus reducing his chance for early production on his contract. The levels of production may still not be agreed on, but his chances to earn escalators based on 2009 production will continue to dwindle.
So why is Crabtree continuing to hold out?
For the same reason Brett Favre could continue to make the Vikings wait on a decision --because he can. Crabtree has an offer on the table that essentially matches the deal given to the pick above him, the Packers’ B.J. Raji. Now the president of the team and son of the owner, Jed York, has reportedly requested a meeting. That’s a sign the 49ers are still negotiating in good faith with no sign of contentiousness. Until the 49ers present significant consequences to not taking that deal, which my source says they have not done, Crabtree feels he can continue to wait.
Why is the threat to reduce the offer to Michael Crabtree a risky one?
AP
Will Crabtree ever don the 49ers uniform?
It isn’t, as long as the team is prepared to follow through with the threat. If not, the threat is a hollow one and will demonstrate to Crabtree and the rest of the team that the front office has more bark than bite. Crabtree and his agent, Eugene Parker, know they have the leverage of being a player the team was thrilled to draft and sees a strong future for.
We have reached a test of wills in San Francisco; Parker and Crabtree continue to have faith that the 49ers will blink first. Despite reports that Crabtree will sit out the season and enter the 2010 draft, I don't believe it for a second. He has until Nov. 17 to sign before that can become a reality. That’s a long time.
I agree that there is no way the Crabtree camp goes back into the draft next year. He's just playing every bit of leverage that he can. He's already got the 49ers bidding up to $1 of BJ Raji's deal. There's way too many risks involved to go back into the next draft. Parker and Crabtree know that.
