***David Wilson Bandwagon*** (1 Viewer)

[monk]

The New York Daily News reiterates Andre Brown and David Wilson are expected to "split the rushing load this season."
This has been the expectation among Giants beat writers all spring and summer. Wilson is clearly the superior talent, but Brown has so far proven a more reliable ball carrier and pass protector. He's more fundamentally sound. Wilson is worth an early-round fantasy pick for upside drafters, but there is a real chance he will struggle to average more than 12-15 touches per game.

Of course they are going to split carries ... This is what seems to be giving Brown owners false hope ... they read split and their brain interprets 50/50. Almost every team splits carries and the Giants always have, however it's never a 50/50 split ... it usually 60/40 65/35

Wilson (the primary carrier) will end up with around 250- 270 carries and Brown (the Secondary carrier) will end up with around 150 an uneven split but a split none the less. And their will be a 3rd and maybe a 4th RB that will also see some carries

 

[monk]

Every Giant fan who closely follows the Giants and most importantly does not have a dog in the fight (Myself) will tell you that it's Wilsons job to lose and there is no question about it

Thanks for speaking for ALL Giants fans who watch the team closely. At least it's a guarantee that you are wrong in at least one point.

I have laid out my reasons for considerable doubt that he will be "the man" while expecting a solid, lots of yards with some long TD upside guy too many time to rehash. Especially for someone who speaks for all of us Giants fans.

And while its VERY early in the preseason, nothing has dispelled that prediction/guess. If anything it's being reinforced (still pass blocking questions, in the mix for returner, A Brown not hurt yet. Yet.)

I'm sorry ... I meant every knowledgeable Giant fan who closely follows the Giants and most importantly does not have a dog in the fight

 

[RBM]

The New York Daily News reiterates Andre Brown and David Wilson are expected to "split the rushing load this season."

This has been the expectation among Giants beat writers all spring and summer. Wilson is clearly the superior talent, but Brown has so far proven a more reliable ball carrier and pass protector. He's more fundamentally sound. Wilson is worth an early-round fantasy pick for upside drafters, but there is a real chance he will struggle to average more than 12-15 touches per game.

Of course they are going to split carries ... This is what seems to be giving Brown owners false hope ... they read split and their brain interprets 50/50. Almost every team splits carries and the Giants always have, however it's never a 50/50 split ... it usually 60/40 65/35 Wilson (the primary carrier) will end up with around 250- 270 carries and Brown (the Secondary carrier) will end up with around 150 an uneven split but a split none the less. And their will be a 3rd and maybe a 4th RB that will also see some carries

I think this is an accurate read of the situation. And I think they will both get goalline work, although Brown will probably get more if effective.

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

ESPN New York reports David Wilson is expected to be the Giants' "starting" running back on game days, but the team will employ a two-back system.
"We're both going to contribute," acknowledged Wilson on Sunday, discussing his impending timeshare with Andre Brown. "Both of them are different style runners," said Eli Manning. "And we’ll kind of understand that and put them in to do things that they are best at." Wilson is the far more explosive, elusive back of the two, but the coaching staff at this point has more "trust" in Brown. Wilson's Average Draft Position is in the late-third round. Brown's is in the mid-seventh.

Related: Andre Brown

Source: ESPN New York

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

According to ESPN NFC East blogger Dan Graziano, it's "clear" the Giants' best pass-protecting back will "get the bulk of the carries."
If David Wilson pass protects like he did as a rookie, this would bode poorly for his chances of emerging as New York's feature back. "You really can't play unless you can protect the quarterback," said coach Tom Coughlin. Andre Brown is the more proven pass protector. Ultimately, Wilson is going to make himself very hard to take off the field because he is an explosive, big-play machine.

Related: Andre Brown

Source: ESPN.com

 

[RushHour]

Rotoworld:

According to ESPN NFC East blogger Dan Graziano, it's "clear" the Giants' best pass-protecting back will "get the bulk of the carries."
If David Wilson pass protects like he did as a rookie, this would bode poorly for his chances of emerging as New York's feature back. "You really can't play unless you can protect the quarterback," said coach Tom Coughlin. Andre Brown is the more proven pass protector. Ultimately, Wilson is going to make himself very hard to take off the field because he is an explosive, big-play machine.

Related: Andre Brown

Source: ESPN.com

Yet another meaningless bit of "news" about this situation this offseason. I fully expect Wilson to be improved as a pass protector, with a year in the system and another offseason. I haven't heard or read anything to suggest that he's still having trouble with that. He might be, but we have no evidence, and people who bring it up are the ones pushing the Brown fantasy bandwagon.

Also, the only thing Andre Brown has really proved is an amazing ability to get hurt.

 

[TwinTurbo]

Rotoworld:

According to ESPN NFC East blogger Dan Graziano, it's "clear" the Giants' best pass-protecting back will "get the bulk of the carries."
If David Wilson pass protects like he did as a rookie, this would bode poorly for his chances of emerging as New York's feature back. "You really can't play unless you can protect the quarterback," said coach Tom Coughlin. Andre Brown is the more proven pass protector. Ultimately, Wilson is going to make himself very hard to take off the field because he is an explosive, big-play machine.

Related: Andre Brown

Source: ESPN.com

Yet another meaningless bit of "news" about this situation this offseason. I fully expect Wilson to be improved as a pass protector, with a year in the system and another offseason. I haven't heard or read anything to suggest that he's still having trouble with that. He might be, but we have no evidence, and people who bring it up are the ones pushing the Brown fantasy bandwagon.

Also, the only thing Andre Brown has really proved is an amazing ability to get hurt.

Yep they cut the league's best RB pass protector. Neither Brown or Wilson are proven in that area. Guys like Reggie Bush and Chris Johnson are not great in pass protection, yet nobody is worried about them getting playing time.

 

[Banger]

Rotoworld:

According to ESPN NFC East blogger Dan Graziano, it's "clear" the Giants' best pass-protecting back will "get the bulk of the carries."
If David Wilson pass protects like he did as a rookie, this would bode poorly for his chances of emerging as New York's feature back. "You really can't play unless you can protect the quarterback," said coach Tom Coughlin. Andre Brown is the more proven pass protector. Ultimately, Wilson is going to make himself very hard to take off the field because he is an explosive, big-play machine.

Related: Andre Brown

Source: ESPN.com

Yet another meaningless bit of "news" about this situation this offseason. I fully expect Wilson to be improved as a pass protector, with a year in the system and another offseason. I haven't heard or read anything to suggest that he's still having trouble with that. He might be, but we have no evidence, and people who bring it up are the ones pushing the Brown fantasy bandwagon.

Also, the only thing Andre Brown has really proved is an amazing ability to get hurt.

i'm not sure why it's meaningless, it's true, especially playing for old man Coughlin. I've been reading the camp reports closely everyday and he's still struggling a good bit. I have zero interest in Brown, he won't be on one of my teams but I am interested in seeing if Wilson is ready to take the next step. I thought, hoped, his pass protection issues would be a thing of the past but from what I've read he's still struggling and that's a concern to me.

 

[monk]

Rotoworld:

According to ESPN NFC East blogger Dan Graziano, it's "clear" the Giants' best pass-protecting back will "get the bulk of the carries."
If David Wilson pass protects like he did as a rookie, this would bode poorly for his chances of emerging as New York's feature back. "You really can't play unless you can protect the quarterback," said coach Tom Coughlin. Andre Brown is the more proven pass protector. Ultimately, Wilson is going to make himself very hard to take off the field because he is an explosive, big-play machine.

Related: Andre Brown

Source: ESPN.com

Yet another meaningless bit of "news" about this situation this offseason. I fully expect Wilson to be improved as a pass protector, with a year in the system and another offseason. I haven't heard or read anything to suggest that he's still having trouble with that. He might be, but we have no evidence, and people who bring it up are the ones pushing the Brown fantasy bandwagon.

Also, the only thing Andre Brown has really proved is an amazing ability to get hurt.

i'm not sure why it's meaningless, it's true, especially playing for old man Coughlin. I've been reading the camp reports closely everyday and he's still struggling a good bit. I have zero interest in Brown, he won't be on one of my teams but I am interested in seeing if Wilson is ready to take the next step. I thought, hoped, his pass protection issues would be a thing of the past but from what I've read he's still struggling and that's a concern to me.

It's meaningless because

A: This statement "it's "clear" the Giants' best pass-protecting back will "get the bulk of the carries." is unsubstantiated. - I have been following the Giants daily and I haven't heard anything put like this.

B: We don't know who the Giants best pass-protecting back is ... so even if the statement were confirmed we still wouldnt know who is getting the bulk of the carries.

C: If David Wilson pass protects like he did as a rookie, this would bode poorly for his chances of emerging as New York's feature back. - Yeah of course but why would he? He's Not a Rookie. If Andre Brown Pass protects like he did when he was a Rookie I think it would hurt his chances.

D: Can you provide a link to a Giants Source that says he is struggling ... Because I havent heard that either. In fact I heard that Running backs coach Jerald Ingram said David Wilson's pass protection has improved. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/06/18/giants-think-david-wilsons-improved-in-pass-protection/

 

[Banger]

Rotoworld:

According to ESPN NFC East blogger Dan Graziano, it's "clear" the Giants' best pass-protecting back will "get the bulk of the carries."
If David Wilson pass protects like he did as a rookie, this would bode poorly for his chances of emerging as New York's feature back. "You really can't play unless you can protect the quarterback," said coach Tom Coughlin. Andre Brown is the more proven pass protector. Ultimately, Wilson is going to make himself very hard to take off the field because he is an explosive, big-play machine.

Related: Andre Brown

Source: ESPN.com

Yet another meaningless bit of "news" about this situation this offseason. I fully expect Wilson to be improved as a pass protector, with a year in the system and another offseason. I haven't heard or read anything to suggest that he's still having trouble with that. He might be, but we have no evidence, and people who bring it up are the ones pushing the Brown fantasy bandwagon.

Also, the only thing Andre Brown has really proved is an amazing ability to get hurt.

i'm not sure why it's meaningless, it's true, especially playing for old man Coughlin. I've been reading the camp reports closely everyday and he's still struggling a good bit. I have zero interest in Brown, he won't be on one of my teams but I am interested in seeing if Wilson is ready to take the next step. I thought, hoped, his pass protection issues would be a thing of the past but from what I've read he's still struggling and that's a concern to me.

It's meaningless because

A: This statement "it's "clear" the Giants' best pass-protecting back will "get the bulk of the carries." is unsubstantiated. - I have been following the Giants daily and I haven't heard anything put like this.

B: We don't know who the Giants best pass-protecting back is ... so even if the statement were confirmed we still wouldnt know who is getting the bulk of the carries.

C: If David Wilson pass protects like he did as a rookie, this would bode poorly for his chances of emerging as New York's feature back. - Yeah of course but why would he? He's Not a Rookie. If Andre Brown Pass protects like he did when he was a Rookie I think it would hurt his chances.

D: Can you provide a link to a Giants Source that says he is struggling ... Because I havent heard that either. In fact I heard that Running backs coach Jerald Ingram said David Wilson's pass protection has improved. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/06/18/giants-think-david-wilsons-improved-in-pass-protection/

the statement is substantiated by Coughlins direct quote "You really can't play unless you can protect the quarterback," that's not really a surprise to me.

There were several posts in the training camp thread and other Giant threads...don't have a link at my finger tips.

I hope he does improve as I think he can be a great value if he can be an every down back or get more snaps on the field. I'm still on the fence.

 

[monk]

Rotoworld:

According to ESPN NFC East blogger Dan Graziano, it's "clear" the Giants' best pass-protecting back will "get the bulk of the carries."
If David Wilson pass protects like he did as a rookie, this would bode poorly for his chances of emerging as New York's feature back. "You really can't play unless you can protect the quarterback," said coach Tom Coughlin. Andre Brown is the more proven pass protector. Ultimately, Wilson is going to make himself very hard to take off the field because he is an explosive, big-play machine.

Related: Andre Brown

Source: ESPN.com

Yet another meaningless bit of "news" about this situation this offseason. I fully expect Wilson to be improved as a pass protector, with a year in the system and another offseason. I haven't heard or read anything to suggest that he's still having trouble with that. He might be, but we have no evidence, and people who bring it up are the ones pushing the Brown fantasy bandwagon.

Also, the only thing Andre Brown has really proved is an amazing ability to get hurt.

i'm not sure why it's meaningless, it's true, especially playing for old man Coughlin. I've been reading the camp reports closely everyday and he's still struggling a good bit. I have zero interest in Brown, he won't be on one of my teams but I am interested in seeing if Wilson is ready to take the next step. I thought, hoped, his pass protection issues would be a thing of the past but from what I've read he's still struggling and that's a concern to me.

It's meaningless because

A: This statement "it's "clear" the Giants' best pass-protecting back will "get the bulk of the carries." is unsubstantiated. - I have been following the Giants daily and I haven't heard anything put like this.

B: We don't know who the Giants best pass-protecting back is ... so even if the statement were confirmed we still wouldnt know who is getting the bulk of the carries.

C: If David Wilson pass protects like he did as a rookie, this would bode poorly for his chances of emerging as New York's feature back. - Yeah of course but why would he? He's Not a Rookie. If Andre Brown Pass protects like he did when he was a Rookie I think it would hurt his chances.

D: Can you provide a link to a Giants Source that says he is struggling ... Because I havent heard that either. In fact I heard that Running backs coach Jerald Ingram said David Wilson's pass protection has improved. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/06/18/giants-think-david-wilsons-improved-in-pass-protection/

the statement is substantiated by Coughlins direct quote "You really can't play unless you can protect the quarterback," that's not really a surprise to me.

There were several posts in the training camp thread and other Giant threads...don't have a link at my finger tips.

I hope he does improve as I think he can be a great value if he can be an every down back or get more snaps on the field. I'm still on the fence.

"You really can't play unless you can protect the quarterback," is not a surprise to anyone

But it does not mean that if both are capable pass protectors the best pass-protecting back will "get the bulk of the carries."

And no Giants Source has said that Wilson is struggling in pass protection which is why you can't find it.

 

[Concept Coop]

I think Lesean McCoy is a good comp for him. If he hits his upside, that's who he is. He hasn't shown me anything yet in his career to make me think he won't hit his upside. In dynasty he's got more value than redraft.

I'd say Spiller, without the WR ability, and just a tad slower. He's more explosive than McCoy, who relies on otherwordly elusiveness.

 

[Banger]

Rotoworld:

According to ESPN NFC East blogger Dan Graziano, it's "clear" the Giants' best pass-protecting back will "get the bulk of the carries."
If David Wilson pass protects like he did as a rookie, this would bode poorly for his chances of emerging as New York's feature back. "You really can't play unless you can protect the quarterback," said coach Tom Coughlin. Andre Brown is the more proven pass protector. Ultimately, Wilson is going to make himself very hard to take off the field because he is an explosive, big-play machine.

Related: Andre Brown

Source: ESPN.com

Yet another meaningless bit of "news" about this situation this offseason. I fully expect Wilson to be improved as a pass protector, with a year in the system and another offseason. I haven't heard or read anything to suggest that he's still having trouble with that. He might be, but we have no evidence, and people who bring it up are the ones pushing the Brown fantasy bandwagon.

Also, the only thing Andre Brown has really proved is an amazing ability to get hurt.

i'm not sure why it's meaningless, it's true, especially playing for old man Coughlin. I've been reading the camp reports closely everyday and he's still struggling a good bit. I have zero interest in Brown, he won't be on one of my teams but I am interested in seeing if Wilson is ready to take the next step. I thought, hoped, his pass protection issues would be a thing of the past but from what I've read he's still struggling and that's a concern to me.

It's meaningless because

A: This statement "it's "clear" the Giants' best pass-protecting back will "get the bulk of the carries." is unsubstantiated. - I have been following the Giants daily and I haven't heard anything put like this.

B: We don't know who the Giants best pass-protecting back is ... so even if the statement were confirmed we still wouldnt know who is getting the bulk of the carries.

C: If David Wilson pass protects like he did as a rookie, this would bode poorly for his chances of emerging as New York's feature back. - Yeah of course but why would he? He's Not a Rookie. If Andre Brown Pass protects like he did when he was a Rookie I think it would hurt his chances.

D: Can you provide a link to a Giants Source that says he is struggling ... Because I havent heard that either. In fact I heard that Running backs coach Jerald Ingram said David Wilson's pass protection has improved. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/06/18/giants-think-david-wilsons-improved-in-pass-protection/

the statement is substantiated by Coughlins direct quote "You really can't play unless you can protect the quarterback," that's not really a surprise to me.

There were several posts in the training camp thread and other Giant threads...don't have a link at my finger tips.

I hope he does improve as I think he can be a great value if he can be an every down back or get more snaps on the field. I'm still on the fence.

"You really can't play unless you can protect the quarterback," is not a surprise to anyone

But it does not mean that if both are capable pass protectors the best pass-protecting back will "get the bulk of the carries."

And no Giants Source has said that Wilson is struggling in pass protection which is why you can't find it.

haha...ok, I'm making it up....go back about 20 posts or so in this thread and I posted something the other day. Man, never seen people so touchy and defensive about a player as with Wilson. If you say anything that isn't positive or glowing it's a complete attack and you must be a hater or Brown owner (which I am neither).

On talent alone Wilson should be the unquestioned starter at this point already annointed by the staff as being the go to back like has happened with Richardson, Spiller and others. That's not the case here and that gives me pause. Yes, I think he'll likely get/earn the balance of touches but how long will it take? What will the split be? Who'll get the 3rd down touches? He's extremely explosive, no doubt, but Coughlin is incredibly fickle and stubborn and doesn't give a crap what anyone thinks so this situation to me isn't as cut and dried as it is to many of you.

 

[Yenrub]

[SIZE=9pt]Here are some quotes from Giants RB coach Jerald Ingram from 8/6[/SIZE]

[SIZE=9pt]I just posted the quotes that had to do with Brown & Wilson. Click the link to read the whole article[/SIZE]

[SIZE=9pt]http://www.giants.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/Quotes-86-Coach-Ingram-JPP--Thomas/c6d6aa47-3826-4a10-aa85-4213a2d58f5c[/SIZE]

[SIZE=9pt]Q: Has[/SIZE] [SIZE=9pt]David Wilsonhttp://www.giants.com/team/roster/david-wilson/165f4ac6-934a-47d5-9b1e-6277d22cf480/http://www.giants.com/team/roster/david-wilson/165f4ac6-934a-47d5-9b1e-6277d22cf480/[/SIZE] [SIZE=9pt]made any progress as a pass blocker?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=9pt]A: From our standpoint right now, obviously we’re practicing against each other. David has worked diligently in learning the offense and being more confident about his job and from that standpoint he has a better awareness as far as what his job is. Now physical and that kind of thing, that will be tested this week. We’re looking forward to that and having an opportunity. We don’t have a true blitz drill here and that kind of thing where he needs more physical work and that kind of thing. But playing against a physical team such as Pittsburgh will be a very good test for him. We’re going to try and put him in as many situations as we can being the first game and as he grows through the games… He knows what his goal is. He’s got to put a hat on. Not only does he have to know his job, he has to physically be able to do his job and we’ll put him in situations where he still has to just be a solid, productive player for us. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=9pt]Q: Are you wondering how the running game is going to be without Ahmad Bradshaw?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]A: No, not really. I think we saw some flashes a year ago. We saw [/SIZE]Andre Brown [SIZE=9pt]help us out early in some situations. I think we have a good group. He’s been here for a while and he’s seen Ahmad Bradshaw and he’s seen the tradition we’ve had here with Brandon Jacobs and those kinds of guys and I think he’s been dying to get out there and here’s an opportunity for him to actually show. Jerry drafted him for a reason, to be a complete running back. When he came out of North Carolina State, they strongly felt that he had the size, athletic ability; he had all those kinds of tools, but he had to learn, he got hurt his first year. He had a dark cloud around him. So yeah, you forgot about him a little bit and yeah he struggled to learn the offense a little bit and everybody else… We had other players here that just stayed there. So it’s a great opportunity for him and I think he’s worked hard to be in that position right now. He deserved it. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=9pt]Q: Andre can do the pass blocking, but there’s got to be some questions in your mind if the other guys can do it. Are you starting to get a better idea on that?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]A: The preseason, you’re actually excited about playing these games. So it’s going to be a great test for us right now. A lot of it is ‘want to.’ There are a lot of examples of guys that have done it. Woodhead has done a great job for his size, so you’re showing players and Ray Rice and a lot of different players that have done a great job of being complete running backs. That’s where I have to do a better job of showing David and creating that ‘want to’ and that technique and the more he actually gets a chance to actually hit somebody, the better he’ll get. You only get better at doing. You can’t get better at not having an opportunity to actually hit somebody. So we’re going to give him as many hits and opportunities as we can. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=9pt]Q: What does David Wilson have to do to be the every down back?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]A: Like any other back at this level of ball, you have to obviously be a playmaker as the runner. You’ve got to be a great faker. You’ve got to be a great pass protector and you’ve got to be a pretty effective route runner. Most of his career, he’s been able to catch the ball and he’s been able to run the ball, but he hasn’t really had to take upon that great responsibility of protecting the quarterback and that’s an area where he really wants to get better at and I think he will. He’s worked hard. He’s come and met with me an awful lot. He’s watched a lot of tape of some past players that we’ve had here in doing that. Now he has to just go out and do it.

Q: As a runner, how exciting is he to watch at times?
A: He’s explosive. He’s a track runner. He has some qualities you’ll get excited about and it’s good to have that kind of a weapon right now, but he’s got to be able to do the other things because that’s what we do. We’re going to throw the ball here. That’s how we’re going to win games here, but we have had great balance in running and throwing and having that tradition, but you’ve got to take care of Eli. There’s a lot of pride and respect with the offensive line. That’s your job. So we’re looking forward to it. [/SIZE]

 

[zamboni]

Reading between the lines, it appears the Giants trust Brown a little more than Wilson right now - although obviously things can change.

No matter how explosive he is, unless Wilson can show that he can protect Eli, he is going to come off the field quite a bit.

 

[Banger]

Reading between the lines, it appears the Giants trust Brown a little more than Wilson right now - although obviously things can change.

No matter how explosive he is, unless Wilson can show that he can protect Eli, he is going to come off the field quite a bit.

that's how I'm reading the situation right now as well. His couple scrimmages will be important to see how well he picks up his assignments. That is really the only thing I see holding him back from taking a strangehold on the position but it sounds like he came into the pro's with a complete blank slate with respect to pass protection.

 

[Sabertooth]

I am reading the situation in a similar way. Does anyone really have any solid information on Andre Brown as a pass protector?

I found these articles that question his pass pro ability from last season. It does not paint a very good portrait. Those assuming that Brown will be better might be mistaken.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000077573/article/giants-unsure-about-andre-browns-pass-protection

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/10/06/andre-browns-playing-time-limited-by-his-pass-protection/

 

[MAC_32]

There's nothing really to indicate Brown is a superior pass blocker. He might be, he might not be. More importantly, he has historically been made of glass and until last year's breakout had been known for that and under achieving when on the field. Wilson was a 1st round pick and did nothing to really disappoint last year after game 1.

If Wilson doesn't take this job it's because of himself, not Brown. He's a plan B 2nd/3rd rounder and if I don't get Brown as a handcuff in the round 8-10 range I'd like I'll add him after his owner drops him early October.

 

[TheFanatic]

Wilson is a first round pick with electric skills. The Giants have done everything possible to show this guy is the starter for the team in his second year. Everything except what the coaches keep saying about pass pro. Might this be motivational ploy so the guy doesn't get complacent with being the starter?

We'll see. Maybe they plan on going with a guy who can't stay healthy as their number one.

 

[cstu]

Wilson is a first round pick with electric skills. The Giants have done everything possible to show this guy is the starter for the team in his second year. Everything except what the coaches keep saying about pass pro. Might this be motivational ploy so the guy doesn't get complacent with being the starter?

We'll see. Maybe they plan on going with a guy who can't stay healthy as their number one.

I can't see Brown winning the job outright but if he stays healthy I think he'll be heavily involved. Wilson is the star, no question about that.

 

[Concept Coop]

The Giants have done everything possible to show this guy is the starter for the team in his second year.

What all does this entail?

 

[netnalp]

I am reading the situation in a similar way. Does anyone really have any solid information on Andre Brown as a pass protector?

I found these articles that question his pass pro ability from last season. It does not paint a very good portrait. Those assuming that Brown will be better might be mistaken.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000077573/article/giants-unsure-about-andre-browns-pass-protection

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/10/06/andre-browns-playing-time-limited-by-his-pass-protection/

Coaches haven't said much about Brown's blocking during camp. Camp reports mentioned Brown doing a good job of blocking a defender at least once, might have been twice. But it's hard to make much of that since it's only a couple of plays. Even Barden gets blurbs about making a great catch here and there but he's no threat to break into the top 3 WRs on the depth chart.

Wilson hasn't been called out for being terrible either. The main thing I've taken from the camp reports is that when he's made a mistake that led to poor block, he's done a good job of not making the same mistake.

 

[TheFanatic]

The Giants have done everything possible to show this guy is the starter for the team in his second year.

What all does this entail?

The combination of these things, in no particular order of importance

1) Let go the incumbant who happens to be the best blocking RB in the league in 2012

2) Didn't work a single vet RB out (didn't even have one to the facility for a chat)

3) The NY Giants website mentioned him as the starter in May (Check the FBG updates to find it)

4) Put him at the top of the depth chart on the NY Giants website before playing a down in a preseason game

5) Have the most brittle backup RB on the planet backing him up

6) Drafted him in the first round last year

 

[TheFanatic]

I am reading the situation in a similar way. Does anyone really have any solid information on Andre Brown as a pass protector?

I found these articles that question his pass pro ability from last season. It does not paint a very good portrait. Those assuming that Brown will be better might be mistaken.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000077573/article/giants-unsure-about-andre-browns-pass-protection

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/10/06/andre-browns-playing-time-limited-by-his-pass-protection/

Coaches haven't said much about Brown's blocking during camp. Camp reports mentioned Brown doing a good job of blocking a defender at least once, might have been twice. But it's hard to make much of that since it's only a couple of plays. Even Barden gets blurbs about making a great catch here and there but he's no threat to break into the top 3 WRs on the depth chart.

Wilson hasn't been called out for being terrible either. The main thing I've taken from the camp reports is that when he's made a mistake that led to poor block, he's done a good job of not making the same mistake.

Sort of ironic that the coaching staff is drilling the media about bass blocking is the key, but none of the dingleberries covering their camp have mentioned it. Someone follow these guys on Twitter? Maybe hit them with a DM or a Tweet and get the scoop?

 

[Sabertooth]

The thing is this. Coaches get asked tons of questions every day and we probably see less than 5% of those answer. And they are the answers the writer chooses to put forth. We don't really get a ton of insight from these blurbs.

 

[Banger]

Wilson is a first round pick with electric skills. The Giants have done everything possible to show this guy is the starter for the team in his second year. Everything except what the coaches keep saying about pass pro. Might this be motivational ploy so the guy doesn't get complacent with being the starter?

We'll see. Maybe they plan on going with a guy who can't stay healthy as their number one.

I don't think it's motivation and it's likely a big part of why he played sparingly last year. Some of the quotes from coaches make it sound like before last year he never had to pass protect, he just ran the ball so it sounds like it's been a big adjustment for him.

 

[Concept Coop]

The Giants have done everything possible to show this guy is the starter for the team in his second year.

What all does this entail?

The combination of these things, in no particular order of importance

1) Let go the incumbant who happens to be the best blocking RB in the league in 2012

2) Didn't work a single vet RB out (didn't even have one to the facility for a chat)

3) The NY Giants website mentioned him as the starter in May (Check the FBG updates to find it)

4) Put him at the top of the depth chart on the NY Giants website before playing a down in a preseason game

5) Have the most brittle backup RB on the planet backing him up

6) Drafted him in the first round last year

None of this is what you suggest it to be, in my opinion.

1. Applies to both backs.

2. Applies to both backs.

3. Unless the quote was from a coach - the same coaches who have yet to name him the lone starter, and continue to suggest timeshare - this is pointless. The team's website is for marketing purposes.

4. This is simply the marketing department. The site's format doesn't allow for two starters to be listed at the same position. The actual depth chart does have them both listed as starters.

5. Two unrelated injuries does not make you brittle.

6. That means they like him, sure. And is a good sign. He wouldn't be the first highly drafted player not to start in his 2nd year.

 

[Touchdown There]

He wouldn't be the first highly drafted player not to start in his 2nd year.

David Wilson is the starter. Get over it.

 

[TheFanatic]

The Giants have done everything possible to show this guy is the starter for the team in his second year.

What all does this entail?

The combination of these things, in no particular order of importance

1) Let go the incumbant who happens to be the best blocking RB in the league in 2012

2) Didn't work a single vet RB out (didn't even have one to the facility for a chat)

3) The NY Giants website mentioned him as the starter in May (Check the FBG updates to find it)

4) Put him at the top of the depth chart on the NY Giants website before playing a down in a preseason game

5) Have the most brittle backup RB on the planet backing him up

6) Drafted him in the first round last year

None of this is what you suggest it to be, in my opinion.

1. Applies to both backs.

2. Applies to both backs.

3. Unless the quote was from a coach - the same coaches who have yet to name him the lone starter, and continue to suggest timeshare - this is pointless. The team's website is for marketing purposes.

4. This is simply the marketing department. The site's format doesn't allow for two starters to be listed at the same position. The actual depth chart does have them both listed as starters.

5. Two unrelated injuries does not make you brittle.

6. That means they like him, sure. And is a good sign. He wouldn't be the first highly drafted player not to start in his 2nd year.

So the marketing dept would just throw something out there that was untrue? This just in, they have more inside information than you or I or even the beat reporters who have still yet to address which is the better pass blocker so far despite the coaching staff tossing down the gauntlet about it to the players and the media.

Two unrelated injuries? He had three last year alone. He had one his rookie year that got him cut. He bounced around to something like 8 other teams between his rookie season and last year. Yes, more teams than on his official NFL page.

They can't put both guys in as the number one so they go with one 1 and the other 2. All they are doing is keeping Wilson fighting for the starting job while keeping Brown motivated to try to win it but everyone, including Brown, knows who will be the starter in the Giants backfield week 1 of the regular season....

 

[Concept Coop]

So the marketing dept would just throw something out there that was untrue? This just in, they have more inside information than you or I or even the beat reporters who have still yet to address which is the better pass blocker so far despite the coaching staff tossing down the gauntlet about it to the players and the media.
Two unrelated injuries? He had three last year alone. He had one his rookie year that got him cut. He bounced around to something like 8 other teams between his rookie season and last year. Yes, more teams than on his official NFL page.

They can't put both guys in as the number one so they go with one 1 and the other 2. All they are doing is keeping Wilson fighting for the starting job while keeping Brown motivated to try to win it but everyone, including Brown, knows who will be the starter in the Giants backfield week 1 of the regular season....

If you have the article, I'd love to see it. If the coaches are calling them both starters, and are claiming they are going to ride the hot hand - I highly doubt there is an accurate report suggesting the opposite.

My apologies, 3 unrelated injuries.

Maybe this is just motivation for Wilson. But that is an assumption on our parts, and not the coaches doing "everything possible" to let us know Wilson is the guy.

 

[steveski]

I hope they ride this "co-starter" thing all the way until the season starts. Would love to be able to grab Wilson in the 4th/5th round of my drafts.

 

[monk]

I am reading the situation in a similar way. Does anyone really have any solid information on Andre Brown as a pass protector?

I found these articles that question his pass pro ability from last season. It does not paint a very good portrait. Those assuming that Brown will be better might be mistaken.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000077573/article/giants-unsure-about-andre-browns-pass-protection

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/10/06/andre-browns-playing-time-limited-by-his-pass-protection/

Blasphemy !

I cant believe you actually went out of your way to create those fake links to discourage Brown owners

 

[Concept Coop]

He wouldn't be the first highly drafted player not to start in his 2nd year.

David Wilson is the starter. Get over it.

I have said that I think he wins the job, and will start each game. I expect a 55/45 - 60/40 split. I just don't understand the logic behind the Giants pretending it's a competition/split to motivate Wilson, while at the same time they are sending the rest of us hints that it's already been decided.

It's possible to think it's Wilson will win the job without being defensive and ripping this strawman army of Brown owners.

 

[monk]

So the marketing dept would just throw something out there that was untrue? This just in, they have more inside information than you or I or even the beat reporters who have still yet to address which is the better pass blocker so far despite the coaching staff tossing down the gauntlet about it to the players and the media.
Two unrelated injuries? He had three last year alone. He had one his rookie year that got him cut. He bounced around to something like 8 other teams between his rookie season and last year. Yes, more teams than on his official NFL page.

They can't put both guys in as the number one so they go with one 1 and the other 2. All they are doing is keeping Wilson fighting for the starting job while keeping Brown motivated to try to win it but everyone, including Brown, knows who will be the starter in the Giants backfield week 1 of the regular season....

If you have the article, I'd love to see it. If the coaches are calling them both starters, and are claiming they are going to ride the hot hand - I highly doubt there is an accurate report suggesting the opposite.

My apologies, 3 unrelated injuries.

Maybe this is just motivation for Wilson. But that is an assumption on our parts, and not the coaches doing "everything possible" to let us know Wilson is the guy.

Dude you f***ed up your draft ... Get over it!

 

[RBM]

Just traded Wilson. He sucks.

 

[Concept Coop]

Dude you f***ed up your draft ... Get over it!

That's too easy. Projections would really drive your point home. If and when you get a minute.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

Rotoworld:

According to ESPN NFC East blogger Dan Graziano, it's "clear" the Giants' best pass-protecting back will "get the bulk of the carries."
If David Wilson pass protects like he did as a rookie, this would bode poorly for his chances of emerging as New York's feature back. "You really can't play unless you can protect the quarterback," said coach Tom Coughlin. Andre Brown is the more proven pass protector. Ultimately, Wilson is going to make himself very hard to take off the field because he is an explosive, big-play machine.

Related: Andre Brown

Source: ESPN.com

Yet another meaningless bit of "news" about this situation this offseason. I fully expect Wilson to be improved as a pass protector, with a year in the system and another offseason. I haven't heard or read anything to suggest that he's still having trouble with that. He might be, but we have no evidence, and people who bring it up are the ones pushing the Brown fantasy bandwagon.

Also, the only thing Andre Brown has really proved is an amazing ability to get hurt.

i'm not sure why it's meaningless, it's true, especially playing for old man Coughlin. I've been reading the camp reports closely everyday and he's still struggling a good bit. I have zero interest in Brown, he won't be on one of my teams but I am interested in seeing if Wilson is ready to take the next step. I thought, hoped, his pass protection issues would be a thing of the past but from what I've read he's still struggling and that's a concern to me.

It's meaningless because

A: This statement "it's "clear" the Giants' best pass-protecting back will "get the bulk of the carries." is unsubstantiated. - I have been following the Giants daily and I haven't heard anything put like this.

B: We don't know who the Giants best pass-protecting back is ... so even if the statement were confirmed we still wouldnt know who is getting the bulk of the carries.

C: If David Wilson pass protects like he did as a rookie, this would bode poorly for his chances of emerging as New York's feature back. - Yeah of course but why would he? He's Not a Rookie. If Andre Brown Pass protects like he did when he was a Rookie I think it would hurt his chances.

D: Can you provide a link to a Giants Source that says he is struggling ... Because I havent heard that either. In fact I heard that Running backs coach Jerald Ingram said David Wilson's pass protection has improved. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/06/18/giants-think-david-wilsons-improved-in-pass-protection/

the statement is substantiated by Coughlins direct quote "You really can't play unless you can protect the quarterback," that's not really a surprise to me.

There were several posts in the training camp thread and other Giant threads...don't have a link at my finger tips.

I hope he does improve as I think he can be a great value if he can be an every down back or get more snaps on the field. I'm still on the fence.

"You really can't play unless you can protect the quarterback," is not a surprise to anyone

But it does not mean that if both are capable pass protectors the best pass-protecting back will "get the bulk of the carries."

And no Giants Source has said that Wilson is struggling in pass protection which is why you can't find it.

Exactly.

The entire quote is this:

"You really can't play unless you can protect the quarterback," Giants coach Tom Coughlin said. "Fortunately, those two young men as well as our other running backs have had the opportunity to look at Ahmad's film and get a better understanding of the complexities of our protection packages. Those two guys are very, very fast and very skilled, and we definitely believe in the balance theory. To play great football, we're going to have to run the ball."

Really doesn't say anything either way about Wilson's prospects.

 

[leedoglaw]

Has anyone started an over/under on number of games until Andre Brown breaks?

 

[TheFanatic]

So the marketing dept would just throw something out there that was untrue? This just in, they have more inside information than you or I or even the beat reporters who have still yet to address which is the better pass blocker so far despite the coaching staff tossing down the gauntlet about it to the players and the media.
Two unrelated injuries? He had three last year alone. He had one his rookie year that got him cut. He bounced around to something like 8 other teams between his rookie season and last year. Yes, more teams than on his official NFL page.

They can't put both guys in as the number one so they go with one 1 and the other 2. All they are doing is keeping Wilson fighting for the starting job while keeping Brown motivated to try to win it but everyone, including Brown, knows who will be the starter in the Giants backfield week 1 of the regular season....

If you have the article, I'd love to see it. If the coaches are calling them both starters, and are claiming they are going to ride the hot hand - I highly doubt there is an accurate report suggesting the opposite.

My apologies, 3 unrelated injuries.

Maybe this is just motivation for Wilson. But that is an assumption on our parts, and not the coaches doing "everything possible" to let us know Wilson is the guy.

Here is the article from a Sr. Giants writer.

 

[JohnnyU]

Has anyone started an over/under on number of games until Andre Brown breaks?

Does that include the preseason?

 

[gianmarco]

Has anyone started an over/under on number of games until Andre Brown breaks?

Does that include the preseason?

Ok, that's funny.

 

[Mistabishi]

I hope they ride this "co-starter" thing all the way until the season starts. Would love to be able to grab Wilson in the 4th/5th round of my drafts.

I've got the 1 spot in a 12-teamer and I'm hopeful to see this scenario come true in a draft that occurs 9 days from now. Man what a sweet deal that would be.

 

[leedoglaw]

Has anyone started an over/under on number of games until Andre Brown breaks?

Does that include the preseason?

JohnnyU for the win!

 

[Yenrub]

[SIZE=10.5pt]“I’m sure,” Coughlin said Sunday when asked whether Wilson and Brown will share carries. “Sometimes we need three [backs]. We’ve had three around here before.[/SIZE]

http://stream.wsj.com/story/latest-headlines/SS-2-63399/SS-2-288521/

The Head Coach seems to think they will share carries in some capacity this season

 

[Sabertooth]

[SIZE=10.5pt]“I’m sure,” Coughlin said Sunday when asked whether Wilson and Brown will share carries. “Sometimes we need three [backs]. We’ve had three around here before.[/SIZE]

http://stream.wsj.com/story/latest-headlines/SS-2-63399/SS-2-288521/

The Head Coach seems to think they will share carries in some capacity this season

I don't think anyone is denying that. I would assume most teams will split carries to some extent as there is no team in the history of the NFL who has only had one back carry the ball for every single carry for an entire season. The key here is "what kind of split will we see?"

I think in the end, we see Wilson with a lot more based simply on his talent and Brown's injury history. I think Wilson has at least 40% more carries than Brown when the dust settles.

 

[Yenrub]

I hope they ride this "co-starter" thing all the way until the season starts. Would love to be able to grab Wilson in the 4th/5th round of my drafts.

I've got the 1 spot in a 12-teamer and I'm hopeful to see this scenario come true in a draft that occurs 9 days from now. Man what a sweet deal that would be.

His ADP over at MFL is at 3.12 right now (real drafts after Aug 1st)

 

[Pigskin Fanatic]

Has anyone started an over/under on number of games until Andre Brown breaks?

Does that include the preseason?

he's no Denario Alexander.

Why was there no Andre Brown bandwagon? Clearly some of you believe he's the guy over Wilson, yet praise for him only comes in the form of mentioning what Wilson can't do. Things that make you go hmmmmmm... Accept that Brown's role = Jacobs. I will concede Wilson may not step up in game 1 of this season as the clear cut starter, it took Bradshaw three years to take over the starting role too behind Jacobs/Ware/Ward and put in his dues as a kick returner for the first two years of his career. Wilson is going down the same path, he's a must have for keeper/dynasty and Brown is a must handcuff for redraft in 2013.

 

[netnalp]

http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/giantsblog/giants_practice_report_wilson_opens_HMsYjJ95RsanSsLsr5NuqI?utm_campaign=OutbrainA&utm_source=OutbrainArticlepages&obref=obinsite#axzz2basyX72K

Giants practice report: Wilson opens eyes as receiving threat

• By PAUL SCHWARTZ
• Posted: 5:33 PM, August 7, 2013

If what the Giants worked on during Wednesday’s training camp practice pans out during the season, Eli Manning and the offense could burst wide open.

There was plenty of concentration on getting the ball to the running backs in the passing game, something Manning doesn’t count as one of his go-to plays. Last season, Ahmad Bradshaw had only 23 receptions, Andre Brown had 12 and David Wilson as a rookie had only four. Given Wilson’s explosive talent, getting the ball in his hands in space seems like a smart thing to do, and the Giants appear intent on doing it.

Wilson got plenty of looks in the 7 on 7 period and made the most of his opportunities. He was able to isolate himself one-on-one with linebacker Jacquian Williams and despite more than decent coverage, Wilson was able to snatch Manning’s pass out of the air with his hands and turn the corner on Wilson, who is an extremely quick defensive player. With David Carr taking over at quarterback, the offense showed a new wrinkle, with Wilson running a deep pattern over the middle. He reached back as Carr slightly threw behind him and hauled in the pass, running behind linebacker Keith Rivers.

Brown showed off his hands in the term period, reaching high to control a Curtis Painter rising fastball.

Other practice notables:

-- OL James Brewer did not work because of a head injury and has already been ruled out of Saturday’s preseason opener in Pittsburgh. Rookie S Cooper Taylor (hamstring) also sat out and won’t play vs. the Steelers. Rookie OL Justin Pugh (concussion) is also out and Tom Coughlin hopes Pugh gets cleared to return next week.

-- DE Justin Tuck did not practice because of what Coughlin said is a “tight back.’’ Cullen Jenkins moved outside from his usual defensive tackle spot to fill Tuck’s left end spot.

-- In 1 on 1 drills, two players showed how to use their size and muscle. TE Adrien Robinson outmaneuvered S Ryan Mundy for a catch and WR Ramses Barden beat the much smaller CB Jayron Hosley for the ball.

-- Second-year Brandon Mosley again filled in as the starting right guard for Chris Snee, who is slowly working his way back in after coming off PUP after hip surgery. “He occasionally suffers from a lack of experience but he’s been impressive,’’ Coughlin said of Mosley, a fourth-round pick in 2012. “He’s a tough kid and he’s battling.’’

-- David Carr must have had flashbacks to the bad-old days with the Texans on one play when Adrian Tracy blew past a missed block by FB Ryan D’Imperio for what would have been an uncontested sack if Carr hasn’t alertly thrown the ball away at the last second.

-- CB Aaron Ross was saying earlier in the day that the defensive backfield hasn’t had any mental breakdowns thus far in camp. Well, it sure looked as if someone blew a coverage when Victor Cruz got behind Antrel Rolle and Corey Webster to break wide open for Manning’s deep ball.

-- Rookie QB Ryan Nassib had one of his better days, throwing the ball with more accuracy on the cool, cloudy and breezy afternoon. His best pass may have been a touchdown toss to TE Larry Donnell, who got behind S Will Hill and CB Charles James. Competing for Nassib’s best moment was his touchdown toss to WR Brandon Collins, who leaped high in the back of the end zone. One of Nassib’s not-so-good passes, intended for Collins, was intercepted by CB Junior Mertile.

-- Victor Cruz was more active as he shakes the rust off but in the two-minute drill one of Manning’s passes glanced off Cruz’ hands. Manning responded by connecting with Cruz and Rueben Randle and got the offense into chip-shot field goal range.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Interesting that Wilson was catching passes from Eli and Carr. Brown is only mentioned catching passes from Painter who shouldn't make the 53 man roster since the Giants usually only carry 2QB, maybe 3 with Nassib being drafted.

If he's running routes, his pass blocking isn't as much of an issue. It could have a big impact on the offense since the screen play hasn't been part of the offense since Tiki retired.

 

[netnalp]

Andre Brown fumbles away his first carry. Doghouse?

 

[Andrew74]

Andre Brown fumbles away his first carry. Doghouse?

To be fair, it was his second carry.