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***David Wilson Bandwagon*** (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Jeff Pasquino
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JohnnyU
Footballguy
Horses Mouth
Footballguy
anyone watching the game? i see he had a huge TD. then i saw that Manning got sacked. was that bad pass pro from Wilson?
Koya
Footballguy
Unfortunately missed the game until now while out at a BBQ. Then again, since Sehorn, I try to avoid this game.
Other than the great run by Wilson (have to love this guys upside and medium to long term prospects), any key observations? How long was the 1st team in, and what was the RB split.
Also, how did Nicks look and how many snaps/looks did Reuben get with he first team?
TIA
Other than the great run by Wilson (have to love this guys upside and medium to long term prospects), any key observations? How long was the 1st team in, and what was the RB split.
Also, how did Nicks look and how many snaps/looks did Reuben get with he first team?
TIA
TwinTurbo
Footballguy
Nicks made a sick one handed catch on this play. It was his only catch but he played strong and earned at least 3 defensive pass interference calls against Kyle Wilson.
3-10-NYJ 38(2:54) (Shotgun) E.Manning pass deep right to H.Nicks to NYJ 4 for 34 yards (K.Wilson). Penalty on NYJ-K.Wilson, Defensive Pass Interference, declined.
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TheFanatic
Footballguy
Seriously? We all knew he could drop 84 yard runs like I drop a deuce? You've been around these boards too long for me to doubt your intelligence, but I have to ask. Have you been drinking? Smoking crack? "We all knew he could bust off an 84 yarder, but until he shows me he can push one in from 1 yard, he just isn't that special." I need you to sober up and come back to this thread and comment again, because that stuff you just said was ridiculous.
Calm down Clown. I was being a bit sensationalistic. My point is, we all knew Wilson was a home run threat. But 84 yard runs aren't going to happen consistently. And if Coughlin gives Andre Brown all the goal line work, it's going to keep Wilson's value down from where it could be. That was my point. Now how about you? Everything ok at home? You seem a bit uptight.
Just got back from the game ...
Wilson looked good all around ...Amazing run on the first play from scrimmage. Nice block in pass protection on one play and picked a ball about an inch from the ground on a bad screen pass from Eli (who was awful tonight)
Brown on the other hand did not look so good ... In fact he looked like the 4th best RB on the team. He did not have a touch until the 2nd Quarter (Giants 5th or 6 possesion) He ran very soft , was tip toeing around instead of hitting the holes hard. Was stopped on 3rd and 1 for no gain (turnover on downs). On 2nd and Goal from the 4 he was stopped at the 2 even though it looked like he had a nice hole. The giants went back to him on 3rd down and he was stopped for no gain (the giants did not score on the drive) He also missed a block that forced Eli to hurry an incomplete pass into the end zone and dropped a pass that was high but should have been caught. He also fumbled once but the play was wistled dead because of forward progress.
By the way ... I have a feeling we will see Wilson getting some goal line opportunities
Ryan Torrain looked great ... he ran very hard all night and Michael Cox looked looked great on kick returns and ran very hard depite the fact the he ended up with -3 yards.
Giants Oline run blocking was terrible and Eli was way way way off on most of his passes.
And the biggest story unfortunately is Stevie Browns injury
Wilson looked good all around ...Amazing run on the first play from scrimmage. Nice block in pass protection on one play and picked a ball about an inch from the ground on a bad screen pass from Eli (who was awful tonight)
Brown on the other hand did not look so good ... In fact he looked like the 4th best RB on the team. He did not have a touch until the 2nd Quarter (Giants 5th or 6 possesion) He ran very soft , was tip toeing around instead of hitting the holes hard. Was stopped on 3rd and 1 for no gain (turnover on downs). On 2nd and Goal from the 4 he was stopped at the 2 even though it looked like he had a nice hole. The giants went back to him on 3rd down and he was stopped for no gain (the giants did not score on the drive) He also missed a block that forced Eli to hurry an incomplete pass into the end zone and dropped a pass that was high but should have been caught. He also fumbled once but the play was wistled dead because of forward progress.
By the way ... I have a feeling we will see Wilson getting some goal line opportunities
Ryan Torrain looked great ... he ran very hard all night and Michael Cox looked looked great on kick returns and ran very hard depite the fact the he ended up with -3 yards.
Giants Oline run blocking was terrible and Eli was way way way off on most of his passes.
And the biggest story unfortunately is Stevie Browns injury
Time Kibitzer
Footballguy
The thing about Brown is that history tells us he's all but certain to get injured at some point this season for an extended period, like he has in every single one of his prior 4 NFL seasons. So even if Andre Brown starts the season as the 3rd down back and goal line back, Wilson's all but assuredly going to get an opportunity to be the team's bell cow back at some point in this season, only question is whether or not he takes full advantage of the opportunity.
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Sabertooth
Footballguy
I agree. I think he ceiling is around RB10 if he doesn't get the goalline stuff. If he does get it, his ceiling is much higher.
Bronx Bomber
Footballguy
Not saying it will change Browns role, but he hasn't been producing much in short yardage situations so far this offseason.
netnalp
Footballguy
Giants have been terrible at short yardage for years, even when the starters have been healthy. From the looks of it, they might rely more on Eli's arm in short yardage than the RB's if things don't improve.
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TheFanatic
Footballguy
Yeah, there might have been some alcohol involved in that post. Sorry, buddy. Just another example of never drinking and posting!
Same with my rebuttal. Sorry Bud. I violated my post-midnight on weekends posting rule. Good luck this season.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
I hear you. You'd think being on these boards for more than a decade, I would know better!Same with my rebuttal. Sorry Bud. I violated my post-midnight on weekends posting rule. Good luck this season.
Good luck this year!
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Grahamburn
Footballguy
It's going to be difficult for the NY Giants' coaching staff to justify keeping Wilson off the field if he keeps making explosive plays. 84 yard TD runs, 20 yard rips, making people miss on receptions, etc.
JustinHawkins
Footballguy
I would think Wilson owners would be feeling even more confident these days. Kid is special, and I think there is little chance he doesn't get 65-70% of the work this year. Too good to bench unless he needs the rest.
Banger
Footballguy
Agreed. Especially if Eli continues to struggle. They are going to need to get some explosive plays some how and if they can't do it on Eli's arm, they certainly aren't going to rely on Brown. I view Brown as a safety blanket of sorts for Coughlin but with every big play from Wilson, the grip on the blanket loosens a bit more.
It's Wilson's job.
I'm pretty confident (95%) that neither guy ran in the 4.3's at the combine. I remember being a bit disappointed when I saw Wilson's numbers and I remember thinking that Brown had good speed for a bigger, power back. And Oakland would have drafted both of these guys had they done so.
Now, it wouldn't surprise me if Brown has at some time recorded a faster forty than did Wilson. Seemingly small track-runner details can make a big difference in those situations. Not to mention the issue of hand timing, differing track conditions, etc.
So it's very possible that while Wilson has clearly superior functional speed, Brown may have been (prior to his injuries) close enough in straightline speed to match or better him under certain conditions.
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The brain trust of the SP is absolutely adamant that there is no such thing as being injury prone though. So Andre Brown, Hakeem Nicks, Miles Austin, Darren McFadden, Ryan Mathews...these guys are no more prone to injury than, say Chris Johnson or Roddy White.Time Kibitzer said:
I am pretty sure that Wilson would have scored on the 2nd and Goal from the 4 the other night. There was a hole and Brown was just way to slow to hit it. I think Torrain would have scored also he was hitting the holes hard
It's football ... They are all prone to injury. Was Stevie Brown injury prone? Is he now?The brain trust of the SP is absolutely adamant that there is no such thing as being injury prone though. So Andre Brown, Hakeem Nicks, Miles Austin, Darren McFadden, Ryan Mathews...these guys are no more prone to injury than, say Chris Johnson or Roddy White.Time Kibitzer said:
Touchdown There
Footballguy
I think that Wilson's value will continue to increase over the season. I want to know who will be in the game when the score is close and there is 5 minutes left on the clock. Also, what happens the next time Andre Brown gets a dinger and misses a few games?
Touchdown There
Footballguy
Ignore the "it's football' because that variable applies to all players. Yes, some players have bad luck but there are also injury prone players. Why does Chris Johnson stay healthy as a small runner? He has the quick twitch ability to duck the heaviest impacts. The bodies and minds of players are different and these are the variables to look at when it comes to the "injury prone" label.It's football ... They are all prone to injury. Was Stevie Brown injury prone? Is he now?The brain trust of the SP is absolutely adamant that there is no such thing as being injury prone though. So Andre Brown, Hakeem Nicks, Miles Austin, Darren McFadden, Ryan Mathews...these guys are no more prone to injury than, say Chris Johnson or Roddy White.Time Kibitzer said:
netnalp
Footballguy
Possible. With the Giants terrible track record of being able to punch it in on short yardage, perhaps the smaller RB that gets lost behind the line will be more effective than the bigger back.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
Brown is proving to be less of a threat than I thought he'd be. I still think we're looking at 66/33 on the early down work, favoring Wilson, with Brown getting 3rd and GL work. It makes sense for the Giants to keep their homerun hitter hitting homeruns, and not taking a bigger beating that he needs to.
Rick James
Footballguy
Do we know if Wilson will be returning kicks? I'd rather him not, if he's on my fantasy team.
zamboni
Footballguy
Hasn't totally been determined yet, but he's been largely off KR duty since preseason started. Undoubtedly due to his role in the running game.
ETA: I still see he's listed as the top KR, but I think that will change unless no one else can effectively seize the job.
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Touchdown There
Footballguy
Koya
Footballguy
This would be a huge benefit for Wilson. Most of us have never doubted Wilson's ability, but rather what his actual role this year would be. To say it for about the thousanth time, if he is limited in 3rd Down and Goal Lines, the ceiling really is limited and talk of "elite" and "top 5" or even must into the top 10 becomes tough to see.
If somehow he gets either of those jobs, especially short yardage, he could (could) be a monster.
Going back to Tiki's great years, do fellow Giants fans recall how he was used at the goaline. I know it was not his job primarily, but I do believe he got some looks there.
Koya
Footballguy
For me at least, the threat is not the split, but the role. If Brown continues to get 3rd down and GL, that really limits Wilson fantasy wise. Moreso than going from a 60/40 split to a 70/30 or something like that.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
I'd agree. But I think it could have proven to be more than simply role. I think the "leash" is tighter depending on who the backup is. Right now, it looks like Wilson gives them a much better chance to win games. Where a fumble or missed block could have been really damning, the Giants might be more willing to take the bad with the good, when the backup is so much less effective.
Overall, my projections won't be changing - as you pointed out - the split won't matter much, and I thought 2-to-1 was the early down split going in. But I feel better about Wilson's floor, having watched Brown look like a replacement level player, if that. This could prove to be overreaction, too. Brown did look good for streches last season.
ETA: I feel better about Wilson's ceiling, too. I feel better about Wilson in the lone place I own him, and worse about Brown in the lone place I own him.
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zamboni
Footballguy
I could have it wroing, but IIRC when Tiki first became a feature back, Ron Dayne was supposed to be the goal line guy, but obviously he sucked and Tiki was the do it all guy. Tiki starting developing fumbilitis, and after being drafted, Jacbos getting that role. But Jacobs, after one year with 15 TDs wasn't very adept at the stripe and Tiki became the goal line guy again. Then Tiki retired.
Again, could have forgotten some of the events, but Tiki was a goal line guy for a good portion of time as a feature back.
Rick James
Footballguy
I took him at 2.14 in a 15-team league, which is pick# 29. Translates to 3.5 in a 12-teamer, and 3.9 in a 10-teamer.
3.03 is probably not a reach, since he was just named the "starter" and he will definitely not be there at your 4th round pick.
Andre Brown supporters are suddenly pretty quiet lol. Maybe they are finally starting to realise how silly the idea is/was that Brown is a real threat to Wilson.
Yeah...Andre Brown in the 7th/8th is a great value pick. A mid round pick for an injury prone backup RB. Makes no sense whatsoever and hasn't all offseason.
Yeah...Andre Brown in the 7th/8th is a great value pick. A mid round pick for an injury prone backup RB. Makes no sense whatsoever and hasn't all offseason.
It's not a reach if you don't think he'll be there at 4.08. Do up a mock factoring in your other owner's tendencies/protected players. Sometimes you have to reach a little to get your guy.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
So we are thinking like 15 to 18 touches a game for Wilson to start? How long before they have to give him 20+ touches a game, because I think he is just too talented and will make too many plays to not get that kind of workload.
I still don't see any way he can complete an entire season with burst like that. He's not going to take every run 81 yards untouched. This guy is going to get hit hard and slow down a bit.
If used sparingly, the guy is a huge threat but it would not be smart to make this guy your workhorse.
If used sparingly, the guy is a huge threat but it would not be smart to make this guy your workhorse.
zamboni
Footballguy
Even as a Wilson owner, I recognize that Brown remains very much a threat. We FBGs can debate it until the cows come home, but it only matters what Coughlin thinks/does and he seems committed to somewhat of a timeshare.
Maybe things will change and Wilson will become the do-it-all-guy, but until we see evidence of that, Wilson owners are deluding themselves.
