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Debate over LTs value... (1 Viewer)

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TheLastDispatch

Footballguy
Apologies if this is in the wrong forum. I thought since this wasn't really a what should I do, and more of a "do you agree with him" that I could put it here.

Had a debate on another site on the value of LT. Obviously LT is the top back in the league, but how far would you go to acquire him? Would you trade two top ten players for him? Someone said that in redraft they would trade Roy Williams and Rudi for LT, even if it meant they'd have a scrub starting for them at WR. Do you agree? Is LT's value greater than Rudi and Roy Williams combined?

 
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yes. No doubt. I think LT outscored those two players on his own last year.
Last year maybe... but do you expect the same numbers? I can't see him hitting that again.To me it just seems like too much to give up. You already have a solid starting back so there's not a real desperate need to upgrade, and you're also losing a top 10 WR and now starting a scrub.
 
yes. No doubt. I think LT outscored those two players on his own last year.
Last year, LT scored 427 fantasy points. Rudi had 215 (even though he was RB15) and Roy had 174 points as WR10. If the "scrub" has a mere 80 points for the season (5 ppg), it is not even close.
 
yes. No doubt. I think LT outscored those two players on his own last year.
Last year maybe... but do you expect the same numbers? I can't see him hitting that again.To me it just seems like too much to give up. You already have a solid starting back so there's not a real desperate need to upgrade, and you're also losing a top 10 WR and now starting a scrub.
In 2005, the point difference between LT and Rudi was roughly 90 points and Roy only had 117. Still not even close. The "scrub" would more than make up the difference.
 
This isn't even close. You'd have to add Roy Williams to Steven Jackson or Larry Johnson for me to even consider giving up LT and I still probably wouldn't do it.

 
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by the way, I wonder who was the only one so far to vote "no" .... :hey:
:goodposting: Not sure. I'll get back to you on that.
just joking, man. I do appreciate your zeal on the topic. Why do you think it is worth it to trade LT for Rudi and Roy? I would like to hear the other side.
It's cool. I've been around here long enough to know you're not an ###.I guess it's hard to argue with the point totals you gave, but I don't think there's a real need to upgrade an already top 10 back, especially at the cost of a massive downgrade at WR. Rudi is one of the most consistent RBs out there. He's coming off another top 10 season (you said 15, but FBG has him at 9 for last year) after having a very tough run schedule last year. He doesn't have an easy schedule this year, but I don't think its as bad as last year.LT can't be counted on to have the kinda year he had last year (again, hard to argue with the numbers you posted about 2005 though). Williams is coming off a career year and is in position to improve as his defense should be just as bad if not worse with the departure of Dre Bly, a year under his belt with Kitna throwing to him and Martz as the OC, and he now has CJ opposite him. You could argue CJ is going to take away form him, but I think he'll pull attention from Williams. KJ is back at RB along with the arrival of Tatum Bell which should help their run game. Furrey is their 3rd WR and is real solid. With all the threats I don't see how a defense can key on Williams and double or triple team him often.As others have said before, LT will take you to the finals but won't win them for you. He's solid of course, but he doesn't work his magic like he does in weeks 1-13. You actually have to have a decent surrounding cast to win in the playoffs. Another small reason might be you're now putting all your eggs in one basket. If LT were to get hurt you now don't even have a good WR. You have a scrub.
 
by the way, I wonder who was the only one so far to vote "no" ....

:hey:
:goodposting: Not sure. I'll get back to you on that.
just joking, man. I do appreciate your zeal on the topic. Why do you think it is worth it to trade LT for Rudi and Roy? I would like to hear the other side.
It's cool. I've been around here long enough to know you're not an ###.I guess it's hard to argue with the point totals you gave, but I don't think there's a real need to upgrade an already top 10 back, especially at the cost of a massive downgrade at WR. Rudi is one of the most consistent RBs out there. He's coming off another top 10 season (you said 15, but FBG has him at 9 for last year) after having a very tough run schedule last year. He doesn't have an easy schedule this year, but I don't think its as bad as last year.

LT can't be counted on to have the kinda year he had last year (again, hard to argue with the numbers you posted about 2005 though). Williams is coming off a career year and is in position to improve as his defense should be just as bad if not worse with the departure of Dre Bly, a year under his belt with Kitna throwing to him and Martz as the OC, and he now has CJ opposite him. You could argue CJ is going to take away form him, but I think he'll pull attention from Williams. KJ is back at RB along with the arrival of Tatum Bell which should help their run game. Furrey is their 3rd WR and is real solid. With all the threats I don't see how a defense can key on Williams and double or triple team him often.

As others have said before, LT will take you to the finals but won't win them for you. He's solid of course, but he doesn't work his magic like he does in weeks 1-13. You actually have to have a decent surrounding cast to win in the playoffs.

Another small reason might be you're now putting all your eggs in one basket. If LT were to get hurt you now don't even have a good WR. You have a scrub.
the other side of "putting your eggs in one basket" is that the LT owner needs one roster spot to score as many points as your two players. I think a trade would be easier to make even if it was two top RBs because RBs outscore WRs by quite a bit in non-PPR leagues. In my opinion, especially in redrafts, LT is untradeable.

 
by the way, I wonder who was the only one so far to vote "no" ....

:hey:
:goodposting: Not sure. I'll get back to you on that.
just joking, man. I do appreciate your zeal on the topic. Why do you think it is worth it to trade LT for Rudi and Roy? I would like to hear the other side.
It's cool. I've been around here long enough to know you're not an ###.I guess it's hard to argue with the point totals you gave, but I don't think there's a real need to upgrade an already top 10 back, especially at the cost of a massive downgrade at WR. Rudi is one of the most consistent RBs out there. He's coming off another top 10 season (you said 15, but FBG has him at 9 for last year) after having a very tough run schedule last year. He doesn't have an easy schedule this year, but I don't think its as bad as last year.

LT can't be counted on to have the kinda year he had last year (again, hard to argue with the numbers you posted about 2005 though). Williams is coming off a career year and is in position to improve as his defense should be just as bad if not worse with the departure of Dre Bly, a year under his belt with Kitna throwing to him and Martz as the OC, and he now has CJ opposite him. You could argue CJ is going to take away form him, but I think he'll pull attention from Williams. KJ is back at RB along with the arrival of Tatum Bell which should help their run game. Furrey is their 3rd WR and is real solid. With all the threats I don't see how a defense can key on Williams and double or triple team him often.

As others have said before, LT will take you to the finals but won't win them for you. He's solid of course, but he doesn't work his magic like he does in weeks 1-13. You actually have to have a decent surrounding cast to win in the playoffs.

Another small reason might be you're now putting all your eggs in one basket. If LT were to get hurt you now don't even have a good WR. You have a scrub.
the other side of "putting your eggs in one basket" is that the LT owner needs one roster spot to score as many points as your two players. I think a trade would be easier to make even if it was two top RBs because RBs outscore WRs by quite a bit in non-PPR leagues. In my opinion, especially in redrafts, LT is untradeable.
That's true, but what good is that other spot if you're not utilizing it with a decent player?
 
You couldn't pay me to watch Rudi's 3 yards and a cloud of dust every weekend instead of one of the greatest talents in NFL history (LT). At least if you're going to trade LT away, get someone exciting with some upside in return. A top 5 RB along with a top 5 WR is the minimum that I'd expect.

 
I think the real question is this- who would you have given up more to acquire, Terrell Davis before the 1999 season, Marshall Faulk before the 2002 season, Priest Holmes before the 2004 season, or LaDanian Tomlinson before the 2007 season?

I wouldn't trade LT for Rudi Johnson and Roy Williams, but that's because I'm not high on either Rudi Johnson or Roy Williams. If we're talking dynasty, however, and someone offers me a top-10 guy and a top-20 guy (say a Willie Parker and a Peyton Manning, or a Steve Smith and a Maurice Jones-Drew), then you bet your butt that I'd sell in a heartbeat. And this is just top-10 + top-20, not saying anything at all about a pair of top-10 guys.

 
Just so you know, the FBG pick calculator says Rudi and Roy are worth LT and Jerricho Cotchery (based on FBG's redraft rankings of LT being 1, Rudi at 10, Roy at 28, and Cotchery at 73). But, FBG's projections (well, Dodds' to be more specific) tell a different story:

LT - 315/1575/19 rushing, 54/443/2 receiving = 333.2 fantasy points

Cotchery - 4/20/0 rushing, 76/912/5 receiving = 123.2 fantasy points

Total - 456.4 fantasy points

Rudi - 315/1292/12 rushing, 23/129/1 receiving = 220.1 fantasy points

Roy - 2/5/0 rushing, 80/1240/7 receiving = 166.5 fantasy points

Total - 386.6 fantasy points

If FBG's projections are correct, then LT only has to be teamed up with Cedrick Wilson (ranked somewhere around 200, but listed as WR90, with 2/12/0 rushing, 29/406/2 receiving = 53.8 fantasy points) to outscore the Rudi/Roy combo. Shouldn't be hard to find a WR to put up 53.8 points, seeing that 80 WR's did it last year (Roddy White was WR80 in my league last year, with 30/506/0).

 
I just recently dealt LT in my dynasty league. Hated to do it, but I got a ton and had to pull the trigger. This is a PPR league with performance bonuses.

Here is the deal:

To Team A (Me): 2008 1st round, 2009 1st round pick, 2010 1st round pick, 2008 2nd round pick and WR Vincent Jackson (4 years left on contract)

To Team B (him): L T(2 years left on contract)

I also own the 1st pick in the draft (I will be taking AD)

Here is my roster: (You only need to start 1 QB, RB, WR, TE, K, DEF and 3 flex)

QB

VY

Big Ben

Charlie Batch

RB

Ronnie Brown

DeAngelo Williams

AD (after draft)

WR

Holt

Harrison

Burress

Ronald Curry

Vincent Jackson

Brad Smith

Brandon Marshall

TE

Antonio Gates

Todd Heap

Vernon Davis

K

Jeff Reed

Joe Nedney

Def/St

Titans

Seahawks

 
LT could be better than last year. He won't score as many TD's but if SD is more competetive late in the year he will be playing more at fantasy playoff time.

 
I just recently dealt LT in my dynasty league. Hated to do it, but I got a ton and had to pull the trigger. This is a PPR league with performance bonuses.Here is the deal:To Team A (Me): 2008 1st round, 2009 1st round pick, 2010 1st round pick, 2008 2nd round pick and WR Vincent Jackson (4 years left on contract)To Team B (him): L T(2 years left on contract)
I'm sure the contracts & possibly salaries play a huge role in this trade, if not, this is a terrible deal. Basically trading LT for "future considerations" is crazy. Personally, if I have Tomlinson on my team, I would be playing for the present time & trying to get a championship over the next 2 years. With the players you had, & adding Peterson, you had a very strong lineup. Now...not so strong.
 
LT might not score 31 TDs this year but I see his total yards going up with Turner as the head coach. Turner loves to make the RB the featured part of his offense, like LT was not the feature part already.

I think over the next 3 years we will see big time FF #s from LT, like Faulk back in his prime days. All you have to do is put serviceable players around LT and you will compete for your league title.

 
For me to consider trading him, I would have to get so much in return that no sane person would consider it...and even then I don't know if I would do it.

Yes, he is THAT GOOD.

 
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I just recently dealt LT in my dynasty league. Hated to do it, but I got a ton and had to pull the trigger. This is a PPR league with performance bonuses.Here is the deal:To Team A (Me): 2008 1st round, 2009 1st round pick, 2010 1st round pick, 2008 2nd round pick and WR Vincent Jackson (4 years left on contract)To Team B (him): L T(2 years left on contract)I also own the 1st pick in the draft (I will be taking AD)Here is my roster: (You only need to start 1 QB, RB, WR, TE, K, DEF and 3 flex)QBVY Big BenCharlie BatchRBRonnie BrownDeAngelo WilliamsAD (after draft)WRHoltHarrisonBurressRonald CurryVincent JacksonBrad SmithBrandon MarshallTEAntonio GatesTodd HeapVernon DavisKJeff ReedJoe NedneyDef/StTitansSeahawks
why make that trade, your team is ready to win NOWI still would not of made that trade. You traded LT for a bunch of unknowns. when it is all said and done we will be talking about LT as the greatest RB of all time
 
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I just recently dealt LT in my dynasty league. Hated to do it, but I got a ton and had to pull the trigger. This is a PPR league with performance bonuses.Here is the deal:To Team A (Me): 2008 1st round, 2009 1st round pick, 2010 1st round pick, 2008 2nd round pick and WR Vincent Jackson (4 years left on contract)To Team B (him): L T(2 years left on contract)
I'm sure the contracts & possibly salaries play a huge role in this trade, if not, this is a terrible deal. Basically trading LT for "future considerations" is crazy. Personally, if I have Tomlinson on my team, I would be playing for the present time & trying to get a championship over the next 2 years. With the players you had, & adding Peterson, you had a very strong lineup. Now...not so strong.
Unless your league is going to be chock full of talent in the draft, this deal is horrible. You were already going to get AP with your own 1st rounder this year, and it looks like your draft each year is basically only for rookies. Now you have to hope the LT owner finishes near the bottom the next 3 years. Otherwise you gave away LT for 4 guys like Lorenzo Booker, Michael Bush, Brady Quinn, and Jason Hill, to go along with Vincent Jackson. In FF, quality beats quantity every time, unless that quantity includes sure things.
 
I just recently dealt LT in my dynasty league. Hated to do it, but I got a ton and had to pull the trigger. This is a PPR league with performance bonuses.Here is the deal:To Team A (Me): 2008 1st round, 2009 1st round pick, 2010 1st round pick, 2008 2nd round pick and WR Vincent Jackson (4 years left on contract)To Team B (him): L T(2 years left on contract)I also own the 1st pick in the draft (I will be taking AD)Here is my roster: (You only need to start 1 QB, RB, WR, TE, K, DEF and 3 flex)QBVY Big BenCharlie BatchRBRonnie BrownDeAngelo WilliamsAD (after draft)WRHoltHarrisonBurressRonald CurryVincent JacksonBrad SmithBrandon MarshallTEAntonio GatesTodd HeapVernon DavisKJeff ReedJoe NedneyDef/StTitansSeahawks
why make that trade, your team is ready to win NOWI still would not of made that trade. You traded LT for a bunch of unknowns. when it is all said and done we will be talking about LT as the greatest RB of all time
:thumbdown: I would never make this trade regardless of whether or not I could win now. This is the best fantasy player on the planet and thus he command a package of superior PROVEN talent...that is, if you even want to move him.
 
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Just wanted to add my own opinion, by adding a trade thast was made for LT2 in my league before lqast year.

12 Teams, and 5 Keepers

Team #1 Gets...

LT

Team #2 Gets...

FWP, (3) 1st Rd picks 2006, (1) 1st Rd pick 2007, (1) 1st Rd pick 2008

Team #2 definitely got value, but did not make good use of his draft picks so far.

I will always go witht the stud theory, which is better to have a stud player scoring as much as 2 other players on any given week. In a redraft league, it would have to be a trade that was over-whelmingly in my favor to give LT2 away.

 
LT might not score 31 TDs this year but I see his total yards going up with Turner as the head coach. Turner loves to make the RB the featured part of his offense, like LT was not the feature part already.
:thumbdown: LT has been "The" Stud of Studs & now he's got Norv Turner as his Head Coach.

Look out! :rolleyes:

 
I just recently dealt LT in my dynasty league. Hated to do it, but I got a ton and had to pull the trigger. This is a PPR league with performance bonuses.Here is the deal:To Team A (Me): 2008 1st round, 2009 1st round pick, 2010 1st round pick, 2008 2nd round pick and WR Vincent Jackson (4 years left on contract)To Team B (him): L T(2 years left on contract)
I'm sure the contracts & possibly salaries play a huge role in this trade, if not, this is a terrible deal. Basically trading LT for "future considerations" is crazy. Personally, if I have Tomlinson on my team, I would be playing for the present time & trying to get a championship over the next 2 years. With the players you had, & adding Peterson, you had a very strong lineup. Now...not so strong.
Unless your league is going to be chock full of talent in the draft, this deal is horrible. You were already going to get AP with your own 1st rounder this year, and it looks like your draft each year is basically only for rookies. Now you have to hope the LT owner finishes near the bottom the next 3 years. Otherwise you gave away LT for 4 guys like Lorenzo Booker, Michael Bush, Brady Quinn, and Jason Hill, to go along with Vincent Jackson. In FF, quality beats quantity every time, unless that quantity includes sure things.
so many dynasty owners get caught up on rookie picks. They do not stop and think that those future 1st rounders might be late first rounders. Could chance they will be with LT on that team.
 
I think the real question is this- who would you have given up more to acquire, Terrell Davis before the 1999 season, Marshall Faulk before the 2002 season, Priest Holmes before the 2004 season, or LaDanian Tomlinson before the 2007 season?I wouldn't trade LT for Rudi Johnson and Roy Williams, but that's because I'm not high on either Rudi Johnson or Roy Williams. If we're talking dynasty, however, and someone offers me a top-10 guy and a top-20 guy (say a Willie Parker and a Peyton Manning, or a Steve Smith and a Maurice Jones-Drew), then you bet your butt that I'd sell in a heartbeat. And this is just top-10 + top-20, not saying anything at all about a pair of top-10 guys.
I have to agree. I don't particularly like these options if I'm to trade a player like LT. Mainly I just don't like Rudi. While Rudi is about as safe as you can get for RB production above RB12. He is not and never will be the kind of RB that can win for you nearly by himself. I guess I see it as him being a strong RB who is safe but does not have the true stud potential. If you were swapping out Rudi's name for someone like Portis, Gore or MJD then I'd easily consider it.
 
LT might not score 31 TDs this year but I see his total yards going up with Turner as the head coach. Turner loves to make the RB the featured part of his offense, like LT was not the feature part already.
:thumbdown: LT has been "The" Stud of Studs & now he's got Norv Turner as his Head Coach.

Look out! :rolleyes:
i think we could see LT break Faulk's total yards from scrimmage record , 2429
 
LT might not score 31 TDs this year but I see his total yards going up with Turner as the head coach. Turner loves to make the RB the featured part of his offense, like LT was not the feature part already.
:rolleyes: LT has been "The" Stud of Studs & now he's got Norv Turner as his Head Coach.

Look out! :shock:
i think we could see LT break Faulk's total yards from scrimmage record , 2429
I not only think he could break it, he could destroy it like he did the TD record last season.
 
Just so you know, the FBG pick calculator says Rudi and Roy are worth LT and Jerricho Cotchery (based on FBG's redraft rankings of LT being 1, Rudi at 10, Roy at 28, and Cotchery at 73). But, FBG's projections (well, Dodds' to be more specific) tell a different story:LT - 315/1575/19 rushing, 54/443/2 receiving = 333.2 fantasy pointsCotchery - 4/20/0 rushing, 76/912/5 receiving = 123.2 fantasy pointsTotal - 456.4 fantasy pointsRudi - 315/1292/12 rushing, 23/129/1 receiving = 220.1 fantasy pointsRoy - 2/5/0 rushing, 80/1240/7 receiving = 166.5 fantasy pointsTotal - 386.6 fantasy pointsIf FBG's projections are correct, then LT only has to be teamed up with Cedrick Wilson (ranked somewhere around 200, but listed as WR90, with 2/12/0 rushing, 29/406/2 receiving = 53.8 fantasy points) to outscore the Rudi/Roy combo. Shouldn't be hard to find a WR to put up 53.8 points, seeing that 80 WR's did it last year (Roddy White was WR80 in my league last year, with 30/506/0).
The reason why the pick value differs from the projection value, in my opinion, is because the pick value has risk built in. Tomlinson/Wilson might outscore Rudi/Roy, but it's also a much more fragile combo, because it only takes a single injury to sink your season, and the standard deviation is going to be much higher (i.e. a single bad game in the playoffs = elimination, as opposed to the other where if Rudi does poorly Roy can still bail you out). These are factors that simply looking at projections doesn't consider.
LT might not score 31 TDs this year but I see his total yards going up with Turner as the head coach. Turner loves to make the RB the featured part of his offense, like LT was not the feature part already.
Tomlinson is already shouldering an UNBELIEVABLE workload. If Turner increases that workload, that would make me scared, not happy. More carries = more chance of going Terrell Davis or Priest Holmes on owners.Anyway, so far this thread seems like a massive Tomlinson-Owner Lovefest. I see Tomlinson owner after Tomlinson owner talking about the ridiculous prices that would be required to get him, and then talking about how they'd probably reject anyway. I'd like to see some *NON* Tomlinson owners (i.e. guys who don't have an unbelievably overrated sense of his worth) weigh in on what they think fair value for LT would really be.
 
I just recently dealt LT in my dynasty league. Hated to do it, but I got a ton and had to pull the trigger. This is a PPR league with performance bonuses.Here is the deal:To Team A (Me): 2008 1st round, 2009 1st round pick, 2010 1st round pick, 2008 2nd round pick and WR Vincent Jackson (4 years left on contract)To Team B (him): L T(2 years left on contract)I also own the 1st pick in the draft (I will be taking AD)
You got bent.
 
I'm one of the few dissenting voices here. Record years DO NOT HAPPEN EVERY YEAR. LT might be the best player on the planet, but he's still ONE player. One player is always going to be worth two top ten players.

While LT did indeed outscore botth of the others last year, to expect hm to do so every year is lunacy. Even if you KNEW beyond any shadow of a doubt that he would stay healthy all 32 games over the next two seasons, to count on him putting up those kinds of numbers is silly.

I don't like having all of my eggs in one basket.

The only way I trade two top tens for LT is with the 2015 sports almanac proving LT's numbers vs. what I'm trading and they show me wrong. Then again, the same almanac would give me a terrific heads up on what rookies to take, and that knowledge would make those rookie picks devastating, even if LT breaks every RB record every year.

 
I'm one of the few dissenting voices here. Record years DO NOT HAPPEN EVERY YEAR. LT might be the best player on the planet, but he's still ONE player. One player is always going to be worth two top ten players.While LT did indeed outscore botth of the others last year, to expect hm to do so every year is lunacy. Even if you KNEW beyond any shadow of a doubt that he would stay healthy all 32 games over the next two seasons, to count on him putting up those kinds of numbers is silly.I don't like having all of my eggs in one basket.The only way I trade two top tens for LT is with the 2015 sports almanac proving LT's numbers vs. what I'm trading and they show me wrong. Then again, the same almanac would give me a terrific heads up on what rookies to take, and that knowledge would make those rookie picks devastating, even if LT breaks every RB record every year.
:banned: LT has finished as the #1 RB ONCE in his career. Again, LT was #1 FF RB once, ever. People are acting like it would be a huge shock if he wasn't the #1 RB this year. Really it would be a shock if he repeats. And look at Peyton. #1 FF QB once in his career. So lets slow down a little.
 
To SSOG's point, I post this while owning LT in 0 leagues.

Even banking on LT not repeating his record breaking season (few ever do), he's generally good for 1700-2000 yards and 17-20 TDs.

Rudi is basically a lock for 1500/12, three years in a row he's put up almost those exact numbers now (really it's kind of eerie). Roy's career best is 1300/7. So combined even if we count Roy's career best as his average we're looking at 2800/19.

Putting LT right in the middle of his expected range at 1850/18.5, in order for the LT side to clearly win this trade they would need to be able to find a WR capable of putting up only 700/5, which was someone like Reche Caldwell or Bryant Johnson last year. Chances are they'll do much better with that WR spot than Caldwell or B. Johnson, and hence will score more points.

It's true that you're closer to "throwing all your eggs in one basket", but consider that LT has missed only *one* game his entire career, I would almost say it's more likely that Roy AND Rudi miss several games each than it is that LT does the way their careers have gone.

Either way, I still think the "all your eggs in one basket" theory is a poor one, especially with a guy who has no injury history to speak of. Studs win championships in fantasy football. The more points you can get out of each individual starting position the better. If you want, I'll trade you 10 players that score the same total points as LT and you have 1/10th the risk...but I'll have 10 times the points...

Assuming I had even the tiniest bit of depth, I would gladly deal Rudi and Roy for LT.

 
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I'm one of the few dissenting voices here. Record years DO NOT HAPPEN EVERY YEAR. LT might be the best player on the planet, but he's still ONE player. One player is always going to be worth two top ten players.

While LT did indeed outscore botth of the others last year, to expect hm to do so every year is lunacy. Even if you KNEW beyond any shadow of a doubt that he would stay healthy all 32 games over the next two seasons, to count on him putting up those kinds of numbers is silly.

I don't like having all of my eggs in one basket.

The only way I trade two top tens for LT is with the 2015 sports almanac proving LT's numbers vs. what I'm trading and they show me wrong. Then again, the same almanac would give me a terrific heads up on what rookies to take, and that knowledge would make those rookie picks devastating, even if LT breaks every RB record every year.
:banned: LT has finished as the #1 RB ONCE in his career. Again, LT was #1 FF RB once, ever. People are acting like it would be a huge shock if he wasn't the #1 RB this year. Really it would be a shock if he repeats.

And look at Peyton. #1 FF QB once in his career. So lets slow down a little.
You cannot be serious.While it is true that LT has only finished as RB1 once he has NEVER finished outside of the top 10. His worst season was as a rookie as RB 7. In every other year besides rookie season and last years record setting season he has been solidly in the top 3. A top 3 that is a tier by itself with RB4 being far far behind.

Year Value Pos. Rank Overall Rank

--------------------------------------------------

2001 85 7 11

2002 155 3 3

2003 202 3 3

2004 130 3 5

2005 174 3 3

2006 266 1 1

--------------------------------------------------
The only reason that LT has finished only :bag: :banned: top 3 in those previous years is because of record smashing years in those seasons by Priest Holmes, Shawn Alexander and Larry Johnson. The difference in points between LT and these elite RB has been negligable. They have all been in the same uber tier of scoring. The difference ushualy being total TD. LT has been in this uber tier longer than any of them and is a more consistent player game to game season to season than any of them. That is why he is the best of the best.Thanks for the laugh.

 
LT has finished as the #1 RB ONCE in his career. Again, LT was #1 FF RB once, ever. People are acting like it would be a huge shock if he wasn't the #1 RB this year. Really it would be a shock if he repeats. And look at Peyton. #1 FF QB once in his career. So lets slow down a little.
That depends on scoring. In Bastages(1 1/2 PPR) he finished 1st in 3 of the last 4 leagues and 4th the other year.
 
I'm one of the few dissenting voices here. Record years DO NOT HAPPEN EVERY YEAR. LT might be the best player on the planet, but he's still ONE player. One player is always going to be worth two top ten players.

While LT did indeed outscore botth of the others last year, to expect hm to do so every year is lunacy. Even if you KNEW beyond any shadow of a doubt that he would stay healthy all 32 games over the next two seasons, to count on him putting up those kinds of numbers is silly.

I don't like having all of my eggs in one basket.

The only way I trade two top tens for LT is with the 2015 sports almanac proving LT's numbers vs. what I'm trading and they show me wrong. Then again, the same almanac would give me a terrific heads up on what rookies to take, and that knowledge would make those rookie picks devastating, even if LT breaks every RB record every year.
:banned: LT has finished as the #1 RB ONCE in his career. Again, LT was #1 FF RB once, ever. People are acting like it would be a huge shock if he wasn't the #1 RB this year. Really it would be a shock if he repeats.

And look at Peyton. #1 FF QB once in his career. So lets slow down a little.
You cannot be serious.While it is true that LT has only finished as RB1 once he has NEVER finished outside of the top 10. His worst season was as a rookie as RB 7. In every other year besides rookie season and last years record setting season he has been solidly in the top 3. A top 3 that is a tier by itself with RB4 being far far behind.

Year Value Pos. Rank Overall Rank

--------------------------------------------------

2001 85 7 11

2002 155 3 3

2003 202 3 3

2004 130 3 5

2005 174 3 3

2006 266 1 1

--------------------------------------------------
The only reason that LT has finished only :bag: :banned: top 3 in those previous years is because of record smashing years in those seasons by Priest Holmes, Shawn Alexander and Larry Johnson. The difference in points between LT and these elite RB has been negligable. They have all been in the same uber tier of scoring. The difference ushualy being total TD. LT has been in this uber tier longer than any of them and is a more consistent player game to game season to season than any of them. That is why he is the best of the best.Thanks for the laugh.
Clearly you missed the point. I know where LT finished, which is why I brought it up (funny how that works). They call it a career year for a reason, it's a players best year ever. LT is unlikely to put up those numbers this year. But LT owners are demanding players as if he's already scored 25 TDs.

SJAX, LJ, Gore, Westbrook, Parker, SA, could all be the #1 FF RB this year. It's not that mind blowing of a concept. But talking to most LT owners, they want SJAX+SS for LT. Ehh, a little unrealistic.

LT is a great RB, but last year was an aberration. Period. He's likely to return to 16-18 tds, 1,500 yards range. Holmes didn't last forever. Either did Faulk. Either did SA.

LT will be great. But LT owners are going way overboard on trade demands.

 
I'm one of the few dissenting voices here. Record years DO NOT HAPPEN EVERY YEAR. LT might be the best player on the planet, but he's still ONE player. One player is always going to be worth two top ten players.

While LT did indeed outscore botth of the others last year, to expect hm to do so every year is lunacy. Even if you KNEW beyond any shadow of a doubt that he would stay healthy all 32 games over the next two seasons, to count on him putting up those kinds of numbers is silly.

I don't like having all of my eggs in one basket.

The only way I trade two top tens for LT is with the 2015 sports almanac proving LT's numbers vs. what I'm trading and they show me wrong. Then again, the same almanac would give me a terrific heads up on what rookies to take, and that knowledge would make those rookie picks devastating, even if LT breaks every RB record every year.
:banned: LT has finished as the #1 RB ONCE in his career. Again, LT was #1 FF RB once, ever. People are acting like it would be a huge shock if he wasn't the #1 RB this year. Really it would be a shock if he repeats.

And look at Peyton. #1 FF QB once in his career. So lets slow down a little.
You cannot be serious.While it is true that LT has only finished as RB1 once he has NEVER finished outside of the top 10. His worst season was as a rookie as RB 7. In every other year besides rookie season and last years record setting season he has been solidly in the top 3. A top 3 that is a tier by itself with RB4 being far far behind.

Year Value Pos. Rank Overall Rank

--------------------------------------------------

2001 85 7 11

2002 155 3 3

2003 202 3 3

2004 130 3 5

2005 174 3 3

2006 266 1 1

--------------------------------------------------
The only reason that LT has finished only :bag: :bag: top 3 in those previous years is because of record smashing years in those seasons by Priest Holmes, Shawn Alexander and Larry Johnson. The difference in points between LT and these elite RB has been negligable. They have all been in the same uber tier of scoring. The difference ushualy being total TD. LT has been in this uber tier longer than any of them and is a more consistent player game to game season to season than any of them. That is why he is the best of the best.Thanks for the laugh.
Clearly you missed the point. I know where LT finished, which is why I brought it up (funny how that works). They call it a career year for a reason, it's a players best year ever. LT is unlikely to put up those numbers this year. But LT owners are demanding players as if he's already scored 25 TDs.

SJAX, LJ, Gore, Westbrook, Parker, SA, could all be the #1 FF RB this year. It's not that mind blowing of a concept. But talking to most LT owners, they want SJAX+SS for LT. Ehh, a little unrealistic.

LT is a great RB, but last year was an aberration. Period. He's likely to return to 16-18 tds, 1,500 yards range. Holmes didn't last forever. Either did Faulk. Either did SA.

LT will be great. But LT owners are going way overboard on trade demands.
:banned: Noone is doubting whether or not he will be elite. The arguement is taking his value off of last years record breaking stats. Comperable to taking SA or Peyton's values after their record breaking years. Now is a great time to try to sell LT2 as his value will never be higher, but his value should be figured out at an elite RB #s and not record breaking year #s.
 
He's likely to return to 16-18 tds, 1,500 yards range.
Since his rookie year LT has never gone for fewer than 1,750 yards.
:thumbup: Noone is doubting whether or not he will be elite. The arguement is taking his value off of last years record breaking stats. Comperable to taking SA or Peyton's values after their record breaking years. Now is a great time to try to sell LT2 as his value will never be higher, but his value should be figured out at an elite RB #s and not record breaking year #s.
I posted above basically throwing out his career year, and still came to the conclusion that he's worth more than a combo like Rudi/Roy just based on the rest of his career.
 
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They call it a career year for a reason, it's a players best year ever. LT is unlikely to put up those numbers this year. But LT owners are demanding players as if he's already scored 25 TDs.

SJAX, LJ, Gore, Westbrook, Parker, SA, could all be the #1 FF RB this year. It's not that mind blowing of a concept. But talking to most LT owners, they want SJAX+SS for LT. Ehh, a little unrealistic.

LT is a great RB, but last year was an aberration. Period. He's likely to return to 16-18 tds, 1,500 yards range. Holmes didn't last forever. Either did Faulk. Either did SA.

LT will be great. But LT owners are going way overboard on trade demands.
For the record, I wouldn't move LJ or SJax for four dynasty first-round picks, either, though the decision would be closer.Let's look at LT's 3-year average before his record-breaking season:

1993 total yards, 4.5 yards per carry, 18.3 TD, 68 receptions. 309 fantasy points.

Those are huge, uber-stud numbers. And again, that's LT's baseline, not his upside. His upside is somewhere between 309 and 427 points. Split the difference and call it 368 points. You're looking at someone whose baseline is RB#3, and upside is RB#1 even if he takes a significant step backwards from 2006.

To trade that out for a weak RB1 like Rudi Johnson, who LT is very likely to outscore by 80-90 points, and who LT could easily outscore by 200 points, you'd need something really compelling to add. Detroit WRs do not qualify. Future dynasty rookie picks do not qualify.

 
I'm one of the few dissenting voices here. Record years DO NOT HAPPEN EVERY YEAR. LT might be the best player on the planet, but he's still ONE player. One player is always going to be worth two top ten players.

While LT did indeed outscore botth of the others last year, to expect hm to do so every year is lunacy. Even if you KNEW beyond any shadow of a doubt that he would stay healthy all 32 games over the next two seasons, to count on him putting up those kinds of numbers is silly.

I don't like having all of my eggs in one basket.

The only way I trade two top tens for LT is with the 2015 sports almanac proving LT's numbers vs. what I'm trading and they show me wrong. Then again, the same almanac would give me a terrific heads up on what rookies to take, and that knowledge would make those rookie picks devastating, even if LT breaks every RB record every year.
:thumbup: LT has finished as the #1 RB ONCE in his career. Again, LT was #1 FF RB once, ever. People are acting like it would be a huge shock if he wasn't the #1 RB this year. Really it would be a shock if he repeats.

And look at Peyton. #1 FF QB once in his career. So lets slow down a little.
You cannot be serious.While it is true that LT has only finished as RB1 once he has NEVER finished outside of the top 10. His worst season was as a rookie as RB 7. In every other year besides rookie season and last years record setting season he has been solidly in the top 3. A top 3 that is a tier by itself with RB4 being far far behind.

Year Value Pos. Rank Overall Rank

--------------------------------------------------

2001 85 7 11

2002 155 3 3

2003 202 3 3

2004 130 3 5

2005 174 3 3

2006 266 1 1

--------------------------------------------------
The only reason that LT has finished only :deadhorse: :unsure: top 3 in those previous years is because of record smashing years in those seasons by Priest Holmes, Shawn Alexander and Larry Johnson. The difference in points between LT and these elite RB has been negligable. They have all been in the same uber tier of scoring. The difference ushualy being total TD. LT has been in this uber tier longer than any of them and is a more consistent player game to game season to season than any of them. That is why he is the best of the best.Thanks for the laugh.
Clearly you missed the point. I know where LT finished, which is why I brought it up (funny how that works). They call it a career year for a reason, it's a players best year ever. LT is unlikely to put up those numbers this year. But LT owners are demanding players as if he's already scored 25 TDs.

SJAX, LJ, Gore, Westbrook, Parker, SA, could all be the #1 FF RB this year. It's not that mind blowing of a concept. But talking to most LT owners, they want SJAX+SS for LT. Ehh, a little unrealistic.

LT is a great RB, but last year was an aberration. Period. He's likely to return to 16-18 tds, 1,500 yards range. Holmes didn't last forever. Either did Faulk. Either did SA.

LT will be great. But LT owners are going way overboard on trade demands.
No I did not miss your point.Your point is that LT has not finished #1 except for last year. And then you go on to say that his performance was a fluke and that Holmes, Faulk and Alexanders dominance did not last forever.

You clearly do not understand how good LT is based off of your point. I allready have shown you why in my previous post. Here let me make this more clear.

For the past 5 years LT has been performing at a uber-elite level only matched by (slightly exceeeded by) a select few other players who have also performed at a uber-elite level. Priest Holmes/Larry Johnson Tiki Barber and Shawn Alexander.

None of these others have maintained this elite level of performance for as long as LT has. 5 years. Last year broke the mold of recent record setting seasons by these others. The same record setting seasons that were the only thing that kept LT from being RB #1 in those previous years. But he was right there with them in each and every year. Now those RB have fallen. LT has been there with them for 5 straight years and over those 5 years his offense has been improving around him. If anyone can and will maintain this level of performance it is LT. No one since Emmitt Smith has such a strong track record.

Emmitt Smith:

Year Value Pos. Rank Overall Rank

--------------------------------------------------

1990 58 7 13

1991 141 3 3

1992 209 1 1

1993 138 1 2

1994 187 1 1

1995 225 1 1

1996 110 6 9

1997 23 18 53

1998 113 6 7

1999 100 5 8

2000 23 20 54

2001 0 25 80

2002 0 26 105

2003 0 63 302

2004 6 23 71

--------------------------------------------------
Could LT fall to RB 9 like Emmitt did in his 7th season? Sure anything could happen. But LT is the surest bet of any player to dominate any league and dominate in such a way that he will outperform your compititions top 2 players by himself in many and most weeks. That is not an advantage to be taken lightly.

And it is not based off of last years performance but based off of LTs entire career the past 5 years. LT does not have to perform like last year obviously to be in this uber-tier of performance. He only has to perform at the level that he has in every single season of his career (giving him a break for not being top 3 as a rookie).

 
Could LT fall to RB 9 like Emmitt did in his 7th season? Sure anything could happen. But LT is the surest bet of any player to dominate any league and dominate in such a way that he will outperform your compititions top 2 players by himself in many and most weeks.

That is not an advantage to be taken lightly.

And it is not based off of last years performance but based off of LTs entire career the past 5 years. LT does not have to perform like last year obviously to be in this uber-tier of performance. He only has to perform at the level that he has in every single season of his career (giving him a break for not being top 3 as a rookie).
:goodposting:
 
They call it a career year for a reason, it's a players best year ever. LT is unlikely to put up those numbers this year. But LT owners are demanding players as if he's already scored 25 TDs.

SJAX, LJ, Gore, Westbrook, Parker, SA, could all be the #1 FF RB this year. It's not that mind blowing of a concept. But talking to most LT owners, they want SJAX+SS for LT. Ehh, a little unrealistic.

LT is a great RB, but last year was an aberration. Period. He's likely to return to 16-18 tds, 1,500 yards range. Holmes didn't last forever. Either did Faulk. Either did SA.

LT will be great. But LT owners are going way overboard on trade demands.
For the record, I wouldn't move LJ or SJax for four dynasty first-round picks, either, though the decision would be closer.Let's look at LT's 3-year average before his record-breaking season:

1993 total yards, 4.5 yards per carry, 18.3 TD, 68 receptions. 309 fantasy points.

Those are huge, uber-stud numbers. And again, that's LT's baseline, not his upside. His upside is somewhere between 309 and 427 points. Split the difference and call it 368 points. You're looking at someone whose baseline is RB#3, and upside is RB#1 even if he takes a significant step backwards from 2006.

To trade that out for a weak RB1 like Rudi Johnson, who LT is very likely to outscore by 80-90 points, and who LT could easily outscore by 200 points, you'd need something really compelling to add. Detroit WRs do not qualify. Future dynasty rookie picks do not qualify.
:goodposting:
 
For the past 5 years LT has been performing at a uber-elite level only matched by (slightly exceeeded by) a select few other players who have also performed at a uber-elite level. Priest Holmes/Larry Johnson Tiki Barber and Shawn Alexander.
*BUT*, here's the rub- every year except for last year, there have been several other players who were shoulder-to-shoulder with LT. I think it's reasonable to expect the exact same this season. For instance, I don't think LT is going to finish as far ahead of SJax as the career averages would lead you to believe. I'd rather get two RBs who had a strong possibility of finishing shoulder-to-shoulder with LT than one RB who is more likely to finish in that elite tier. I mean, imagine if you traded LT a couple of years ago for LJ+ (as in LJ plus Marvin Harrison or Steve Smith or whatever).Again, people keep talking as if LT is going to be head and shoulders above his peers, when historically speaking, that's an absurd thing to expect- it's far more likely that LT will be shoulder to shoulder with several other RBs at the end of the year.

Also, if you're talking Dynasty, LT is getting older, and has been heavily worked. Even if he outscores a Frank Gore or Steven Jackson by 50 points a season over the next three years, his injury risk over that time is likely to be higher (thanks to his age and his overuse), and his trade value at the end of that time is likely to be astronomically lower, meaning a Gore or an SJax would make up the value on the back end.

In an initial dynasty draft, I'd almost prefer Steven Jackson to LaDanian Tomlinson, just because of the age/workload factor (and because I think SJax is going to be in that uber "shoulder-to-shoulder" tier with Tomlinson). Granted, I'd still take Tomlinson #1 overall, mostly because his trade value right now is higher- I could draft Tomlinson and then trade him to the SJax owner for SJax PLUS. If I could draft Tomlinson and trade him for SJax + Evans, I would do that *IN A HEARTBEAT*.

 
For the past 5 years LT has been performing at a uber-elite level only matched by (slightly exceeeded by) a select few other players who have also performed at a uber-elite level. Priest Holmes/Larry Johnson Tiki Barber and Shawn Alexander.
*BUT*, here's the rub- every year except for last year, there have been several other players who were shoulder-to-shoulder with LT. I think it's reasonable to expect the exact same this season. For instance, I don't think LT is going to finish as far ahead of SJax as the career averages would lead you to believe. I'd rather get two RBs who had a strong possibility of finishing shoulder-to-shoulder with LT than one RB who is more likely to finish in that elite tier. I mean, imagine if you traded LT a couple of years ago for LJ+ (as in LJ plus Marvin Harrison or Steve Smith or whatever).Again, people keep talking as if LT is going to be head and shoulders above his peers, when historically speaking, that's an absurd thing to expect- it's far more likely that LT will be shoulder to shoulder with several other RBs at the end of the year.

Also, if you're talking Dynasty, LT is getting older, and has been heavily worked. Even if he outscores a Frank Gore or Steven Jackson by 50 points a season over the next three years, his injury risk over that time is likely to be higher (thanks to his age and his overuse), and his trade value at the end of that time is likely to be astronomically lower, meaning a Gore or an SJax would make up the value on the back end.

In an initial dynasty draft, I'd almost prefer Steven Jackson to LaDanian Tomlinson, just because of the age/workload factor (and because I think SJax is going to be in that uber "shoulder-to-shoulder" tier with Tomlinson). Granted, I'd still take Tomlinson #1 overall, mostly because his trade value right now is higher- I could draft Tomlinson and then trade him to the SJax owner for SJax PLUS. If I could draft Tomlinson and trade him for SJax + Evans, I would do that *IN A HEARTBEAT*.
hmmmWell RB scoring has been higher for the uber-elite players over the past 5 years than it has ever been before. Thus the record setting years by Priest and Alexander followed by LT last year. Emmitt would not have finished as high competing with those record setting TD numbers. His best was 25TD + 2000 yards.

The KC offensive line I think was a huge factor in the dominant performance of Priest and then Johnson. A Oline such as they have had is a rare thing and most of its key players have now retired. Similarly for Alexander the Seahawks had a dominant left side of Jones/Hutch that most of Alexanders scoring and productive runs came behind.

Compare this to LT who has had an overachieving Oline for most of his career until just recently. I think the addition of Marcus McNiel at LT last year had a huge effect on LT's record setting performance. This is an offensive line just coming into its prime right now as opposed to being one looking to decline in the near future.

Steven Jackson has Orlando Pace but Pace looks to be nearing the end of his career now and will need to be replaced. I do think Alex Barron is a good RT not sure if he can make the transition to the other side or not but even if he can Pace will be missed.

The SF Oline is young and should continue improving and remain intact for several years to come. Much like LT's Oline.

The Redskins Oline with Sanders as OC produced 2200 yards rushing last year and is another unit that has elite line players with continuity that should remain intact for the next few seasons although they are getting older now and lost thier LG to free agency this offseason.

My point being that LT who is only 28 years old now has a solid Oline to support him as well as surrounding cast. Coach that funnells much of the offense through the main RB leading to the success of Gore recently and in the past Emmitt, Terry Allen, Stephen Davis, LT.

Looking around the league for outside influences that will have an effect over the long term combined with a track record of performance I am not seeing situations as favorable as what I am seeing for LT. And last year may have been the begining of seeing LT score double dozens in total TD that could last for the next 3 years.

In dynasty that is how far I look ahead. 3 years. No longer than that. And I actualy do not see other players such as Jackson being able to keep pace with him. They will be chasing his performance of the years prior to last year while I do not see indications that LT will regress (sounds funny to say that in this case) that far.

LT may not break his record set last year but I also do not see him dipping below 20TD over the next 3 years either. This is a very high standard to try to come close to for the other RB and we may see a few years of LT being in a uber-tier by himself while there are a handful of RB in a second elite tier behind him.

I definitly do not see Steven Jackson + Evans being enough to get it done. In discussion from linked thread here in this thread value being established seems to be a RB1 (Jackson, Gore, FWP ect.) a RB2 and a elite level QB or WR. As when running the VBD #s just based on LTs past performance.. not 2006 but just his averages 2RB VBD #s do not match up with him. It takes somthing more than this for such a trade to be in the LT owners favor.

I do welcome a discussion and debate of this however as my opinion on it is not entirely set in stone and I am still exploring the answer to that question. What is LT really worth?

 
This is a my reply to a conversation we were having in the AC forum. It seems to have more opinions in here so I reposted. Just ignore if you already read it........

In our 12 team redraft w/ IDP I was lucky enough to draw the #1 pick this year (consensus LT). Before the NFL playoffs were over last year and he was at an all time high, I traded my 1.1 pick for his 1.6, 2.7, 3.5 picks and I threw in my irrelevant last 2 picks (rd 17 and 18). This is the most ever given in a pre draft trade in our league, and it should be. LT is a STUD no doubt, but he will not repeat last years 31 td's.

I should be looking at 1.6 Westbrook, SA, or Addai 2.7 Henry, Willis, or CJ 3.5 T.Jones, Waynes, or Palmer....

If at the end of the draft I ended up with Westbrook, Magahee, and C.Palmer for LT and 2 scrubs, I like it.

Plus I still have my 2.12 and 3.6 to grab a WR1 and RB2

(We are PPR)

My point is that LT was at his peak value as someone else stated, and I feel like I cashed in...FWIW

 

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