Good question.
I don't say that a QB couldn't have done better - I definitely think they could have. And I agree wholeheartedly about the passing downfield thing - I can't believe the Colts tried to change their style of play in such a key game to basically try to beat the Patriots at their own game. But that is in my view due to the coaches more than Manning.
Manning calls plays at the line of scrimmage. He had to adjust, and he failed. You can say that Dungy and Moore failed to help him adjust, but Manning was the one staring at a defense that had 0 down linemen and decided not to audible into a run on several occasions. What happened to the guy who said that if opposing teams dared him to run, they'd run their way to a win?
But so many people have been saying - a great QB leads his team to victory in the key games no matter what and made comparisons to basketball players and such. And the whole thread started because Manning and the Patriots lost AGAIN to the Patriots.
No, it started because Manning led them to a whopping 3 points in the playoffs. If the Colts lose this game 23-21, it's probably not as much of an issue. But this is part of a longstanding trend of Manning collapsing in the playoffs.
And my points are: - the Patriots beat the Colts down across the board, and are just a better team. One guy can't overcome that - particularly when his team is outcoached, outhustled, dropping passes, etc. The Patriots are just a better team, and throw in the conditions of the game and in that scenario they're a MUCH better team. I'd like to hear the argument that the Colts would have won with Montana in there - or whoever you want.
I don't think you can make an argument that this QB or that QB would have won the game, because you'd be dealing entirely in hypotheticals. But I have enumerated the reasons that Manning was easier for the Patriots to beat than another QB because he beat himself, he was predictable, he failed to adjust, he wasn't aggressive, and he wasn't a leader.
- comparisons to basketball make no sense - a single player can take over a game so much easier than in football. And in fact you play a 7-game series.
Actually, the person who brought up basketball was defending Manning, saying that Jordan "struggled" early in his career, too. I agree that they're completely different games.
- everyone's pointing out these QBs that won Super Bowls as obviously superior, and how can you tell that when often their supporting cast was so much better.Football is just too much of a team game to play the can't be great if you never won a Super Bowl card.
I'm not. I don't think many of the people saying Manning choked in this game brought up the Super Bowl. It's the Manning supporters that keep saying it's not Manning's fault he hasn't won the Super Bowl.
And sure - you can say Tom Brady won that Super Bowl against the Rams with that last-minute drive. But I'd say it had more to do with the coaching and the defense that shut down the Rams supposedly unstoppable offense.
Well, that's another argument for another thread, but what about the Superbowl against the Panthers?
I definitely agree that Manning has major question-marks, and the Colts in general need to figure out how to beat the Patriots, but his career isn't over yet.
Absolutely. And I'm almost even rooting for him to get over this hump. It's sad that he's so predictably collapsed in the playoffs the last few years after such great regular season performances. It must really eat him up inside.
I'm reminded of Elway - not considered among the greatest ever until he got a running game like they got starting with TD, and their defense also got better. Denver was a lot like the Colts in winning a lot of high-scoring games, but not winning it all until late in Elway's career. If the rest of the team hadn't gotten better and they had never won the Super Bowl - would that mean Elway wasn't one of the best QBs?
It's funny you should mentioned that, because Elway had some miserable performances the first few years of his career. From this
ESPN article:
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In a winning effort against New England in 1986, he completed only 13 of 32 passes; in the 1987 Super Bowl he was 14 for 38 and was picked off three times; in the 1989 Super Bowl, he was 10 for 26 for only 108 yards, and was intercepted twice.
But he rebounded late in his career. Maybe Manning will too. As I said earlier in the thread, I give him credit for beating KC last year, although it was just the kind of team he seems to excel against, the teams with no D. I thought he might be turning the corner, especially after the win against Denver this year, but it seems that hasn't happened yet. All we can say so far is that he has ended his team's season in each of the last five years with a game where he played way, way off his season averages, and failed to score a bunch of points.