Do "dawn" and "don" rhyme? (2 Viewers)

[OrtonToOlsen]

So you know that some people pronounce Dawn like it's spelled, "DaWWWn", and that sounds differently than "Don", but yet you claim they sound exactly alike?

They SHOULD be pronounced exactly the same.  But I do understand that there are baboons out there that say them differently.  Just like I understand there are people that say “lie-berry” and “Warshington”.

 

[Otis]

Hey you guys ever see that movie Red Don?

Yeah me neither because there is no such movie. 
 

If you think they rhyme you have a terrible ear, and you’re probably an awful singer, and maybe bad with the ladies too. 

 

[Otis]

They rhyme in the same way as when eminem raps and makes things like “flowers” and “Tuesday” rhyme.  

 

[rockaction]

Hey you guys ever see that movie Red Don?

You know what's crazy? There were a bunch of British guys around WWII who ran counterespionage for the Russians. There were four of them, and they came to be known as the Red Dons. There's also a punk band by the same name.

As for pronunciation, I can't tell you one way or another. 

 

[Zegras11]

Hey you guys ever see that movie Red Don?

Yeah me neither because there is no such movie. 
 

If you think they rhyme you have a terrible ear, and you’re probably an awful singer, and maybe bad with the ladies too. 

you must have an awful accent.    Exactly the same.

 

[Otis]

you must have an awful accent.    Exactly the same.

Or a discriminating ear. 

 

[wazoo11]

 

[DA RAIDERS]

Sounds exactly the same.  F’ing troglodytes. 

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Sounds exactly the same.  F’ing troglodytes. 

Your ears are busted. See a doctor. 

 

[DA RAIDERS]

Your ears are busted. See a doctor. 

A dawctor?  Or a doctor?  

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

A dawctor?  Or a doctor?  

Dock-tor

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Does this malfunction carry over to lawn and Lon?

 

[BobbyLayne]

was Paul McCartney singing "I'm Dawn" or "I'm Don"?

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Does awning sound like on-ing?

 

[Gilroy34]

Of course they sound the same

 

[Da Guru]

Heard someone on the radio talking about this yesterday. Just started laughing!!

 

[Doug B]

Was watching a home improvement video the other day where the handy lady was talking about sealing a window with

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Do donning and dawning rhyme?

No. No they do not.

 

[dgreen]

They rhyme. They do not (if pronounced properly) sound the exact same.

 

[Jayrod]

Do donning and dawning rhyme?

Yes.

Still not sure what the "aw" is supposed to sound like to those that vote no.

Making "dawn" sound different feels like you are making a 1 syllable word into 2...or at least making 2 vowel sounds back to back which is just awkward and wierd.

 

[Phil Elliott]

Can't believe it's been over 13 years.

 

[mr. furley]

Do "dawn" and "don" rhyme?​

 

[massraider]

Still not sure what the "aw" is supposed to sound like to those that vote no.

Have you ever watched The Sopranos?

 

[Jayrod]

Still not sure what the "aw" is supposed to sound like to those that vote no.

Have you ever watched The Sopranos?

No, but if a Jersey accent is what is required then I rest my case.

 

[massraider]

No, but if a Jersey accent is what is required, then I rest my case.

Marisa Tomei saying The defense is wrong in My Cousin VInny.

That's what they'll do to the letter 'O' if we don't keep an eye on them.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Do donning and dawning rhyme?

Yes.

Still not sure what the "aw" is supposed to sound like to those that vote no.

Making "dawn" sound different feels like you are making a 1 syllable word into 2...or at least making 2 vowel sounds back to back which is just awkward and wierd.

The W isn't silent. You purse your lips slightly to make the sound. It's not much different from what you call a baby deer, i.e. fawn. That word isn't pronounced like "fahn" would sound. There's a harder W characteristic to it.

You don your hat and wizard cloak.

You get up at dawn. If you're Hans Gruber, you request the release of your comrades in arms from Asian Dawn.

You say the W.

 

[Schmeabs]

Do donning and dawning rhyme?

Yes.

Still not sure what the "aw" is supposed to sound like to those that vote no.

Making "dawn" sound different feels like you are making a 1 syllable word into 2...or at least making 2 vowel sounds back to back which is just awkward and wierd.

The W isn't silent. You purse your lips slightly to make the sound. It's not much different from what you call a baby deer, i.e. fawn. That word isn't pronounced like "fahn" would sound. There's a harder W characteristic to it.

You don your hat and wizard cloak.

You get up at dawn. If you're Hans Gruber, you request the release of your comrades in arms from Asian Dawn.

You say the W.

Normal people do not do this. Don and Dawn sound exactly the same

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Do donning and dawning rhyme?

Yes.

Still not sure what the "aw" is supposed to sound like to those that vote no.

Making "dawn" sound different feels like you are making a 1 syllable word into 2...or at least making 2 vowel sounds back to back which is just awkward and wierd.

The W isn't silent. You purse your lips slightly to make the sound. It's not much different from what you call a baby deer, i.e. fawn. That word isn't pronounced like "fahn" would sound. There's a harder W characteristic to it.

You don your hat and wizard cloak.

You get up at dawn. If you're Hans Gruber, you request the release of your comrades in arms from Asian Dawn.

You say the W.

Normal people do not do this. Don and Dawn sound exactly the same

Nope.

Edit: Or should I say "nowpe"? Not that that would matter.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

My middle name is Allen.

My wife insists it sounds the same as Alan.

She's wrong.

 

[Doug B]

Still not sure what the "aw" is supposed to sound like to those that vote no.

If we were in the same room, I could teach you the difference in a few minutes. But because your native dialect lacks the distinction between the two vowels, it would take a good bit of training for you to perceive the difference in conversational-speed speech.

These videos might or might not help. I have found that people can learn the difference from a live speaker in front of them much more easily than from a video.

How to Pronounce DOWN, GOWN, DONE, GUN, DAWN, GONE​

- 0:46 - she pronounces the "aw"sound as me and Andy Dufresne do. She's teaching diction, so she exaggerates a very little, but not much.
- 1:52 - reiterates the "aw" vowel

Caught and Cot unmerged​

Pronounces a bunch of words first with me & Andy's "aw", then some words with the so-called "short o". Right off the bat, you'll either hear no difference or only notice a "doesn't matter" super-slight difference.

 

[Schmeabs]

My middle name is Allen.

My wife insists it sounds the same as Alan.

She's wrong.

You're wrawng

 

[Andy Dufresne]

All joking aside, I remember in a psychology class watching a video that showed a native American speaker saying two different words that sounded the same to a non-native adult.

But they put a baby next to the video and trained it to hear the differences. So every time that the speaker said one word the baby would look and the other word the baby would not look.

So there is truth to the idea that some people simply can't hear distinctions in certain words while others can.

 

[Doug B]

This link is more technical:

Primary Cardinal Vowels

I queued the link up to the International Phonetic Alphabet cardinal vowel [ɑ], which is very close to me and Andy's vowel in "Don". The very next vowel the speaker pronounces, [ᴐ], is very close to me and Andy's vowel in "Dawn". Will be hard to distinguish by ear without practice.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

The canopy thing that gives shade is an awning. As in awe-ning not on-ing.

The raised part of a ship where the commander controls operations is a conning tower. It doesn't sound like something a crow would do, as in caw-ning.

 

[Tecumseh]

Do donning and dawning rhyme?

Yes.

Still not sure what the "aw" is supposed to sound like to those that vote no.

Making "dawn" sound different feels like you are making a 1 syllable word into 2...or at least making 2 vowel sounds back to back which is just awkward and wierd.

The W isn't silent. You purse your lips slightly to make the sound. It's not much different from what you call a baby deer, i.e. fawn. That word isn't pronounced like "fahn" would sound. There's a harder W characteristic to it.

You don your hat and wizard cloak.

You get up at dawn. If you're Hans Gruber, you request the release of your comrades in arms from Asian Dawn.

You say the W.

Normal people do not do this. Don and Dawn sound exactly the same

This may be the most insane post I’ve ever seen on this board, and I’ve read MOP’s threads.

 

[Tecumseh]

My middle name is Allen.

My wife insists it sounds the same as Alan.

She's wrong.

Now you’ve lost me. These are exactly the same.

 

[Doug B]

The canopy thing that gives shade is an awning. As in awe-ning not on-ing.

I will say that in our local dialect, the word "on" is kind of an exception. Around here, "lawn", "Dawn", and "on" are perfect rhymes with one another -- with "Don" having the elementary-school "short o" like "sock", "mop", "lot", etc.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

My middle name is Allen.

My wife insists it sounds the same as Alan.

She's wrong.

Now you’ve lost me. These are exactly the same.

"En" and "An" make two different sounds.

Al-en and Al-an do too.
It's roughly the difference between "End" and "And" .

 

[Andy Dufresne]

The canopy thing that gives shade is an awning. As in awe-ning not on-ing.

I will say that in our local dialect, the word "on" is kind of an exception. Around here, "lawn", "Dawn", and "on" are perfect rhymes with one another -- with "Don" having the elementary-school "short o" like "sock", "mop", "lot", etc.

And we're back to the conclusion that English makes no sense.

 

[Doug B]

I remember in a psychology class watching a video that showed a native American speaker saying two different words that sounded the same to a non-native adult.

But they put a baby next to the video and trained it to hear the differences.

Fun with Thai consonants

You know we learn in grade school that the consonants "p", "t", and "k" are unvoiced while "b", "d", and "g" are voiced (i.e. vocal cords vibrate)? Well in Thai, they have voiced consonants, too ... but also two different kinds of unvoiced consonants.

In the link, the Thai speaker demonstrates Thai "b", then one type of unvoiced "p" ... and then another unvoiced "p" (spelled "bp" to make clear which consonant is being produced). For Thai speakers, those are three distinct consonants. Most English speakers listening to that video will perceive the "bp" as pretty much English "b" -- and this would be even more true with conversational-speed Thai.

 

[dgreen]

There's a difference between how a word "should" be pronounced based on some rules of language and how people actually say things in practice. Very few people consistently follow the rules.

 

[dgreen]

My middle name is Allen.

My wife insists it sounds the same as Alan.

She's wrong.

HNow you’ve lost me. These are exactly the same.

"En" and "An" make two different sounds.

Al-en and Al-an do too.
It's roughly the difference between "End" and "And" .

How do you pronounce "been"? I have a friend who says it like "bean". Most people I know say it like "Ben".

 

[Doug B]

My middle name is Allen.

My wife insists it sounds the same as Alan.

She's wrong.

Now you’ve lost me. These are exactly the same.

"En" and "An" make two different sounds.

Al-en and Al-an do too.
It's roughly the difference between "End" and "And" .

In my dialect, the second syllables in both "Allen" and "Alan" are unstressed to the point where the vowels come out as schwas. Pronouncing either name with a non-schwa second vowel would totally mark a speaker as "not a local" around here.

 

[Doug B]

And we're back to the conclusion that English makes no sense.

The spelling sure as heck doesn't

 

[shuke]

My middle name is Allen.

My wife insists it sounds the same as Alan.

She's wrong.

HNow you’ve lost me. These are exactly the same.

"En" and "An" make two different sounds.

Al-en and Al-an do too.
It's roughly the difference between "End" and "And" .

How do you pronounce "been"? I have a friend who says it like "bean". Most people I know say it like "Ben".

I think I say it more like "bin".

 

[dgreen]

My middle name is Allen.

My wife insists it sounds the same as Alan.

She's wrong.

HNow you’ve lost me. These are exactly the same.

"En" and "An" make two different sounds.

Al-en and Al-an do too.
It's roughly the difference between "End" and "And" .

How do you pronounce "been"? I have a friend who says it like "bean". Most people I know say it like "Ben".

I think I say it more like "bin".

True. I probably pronounce "Ben" like "bin" and "pen" like "pin".

 

[DA RAIDERS]

they rhyme

 

[Andy Dufresne]

My middle name is Allen.

My wife insists it sounds the same as Alan.

She's wrong.

HNow you’ve lost me. These are exactly the same.

"En" and "An" make two different sounds.

Al-en and Al-an do too.
It's roughly the difference between "End" and "And" .

How do you pronounce "been"? I have a friend who says it like "bean". Most people I know say it like "Ben".

Closer to Ben. Been makes one sound like they're from Jolly Old England.

My middle name is Allen.

My wife insists it sounds the same as Alan.

She's wrong.

Now you’ve lost me. These are exactly the same.

"En" and "An" make two different sounds.

Al-en and Al-an do too.
It's roughly the difference between "End" and "And" .

In my dialect, the second syllables in both "Allen" and "Alan" are unstressed to the point where the vowels come out as schwas. Pronouncing either name with a non-schwa second vowel would totally mark a speaker as "not a local" around here.

It's hard (and a bit ridiculous) to explain but the difference is this -

To say Alan, the "an" sound comes from closer to the throat and the bottom jaw opens ever so slightly more. Think about saying "ack" and that's the "A" sound.

To say Allen, the "eh" is more breathy and nasally. More like how "meh" would sound.

 

[Doug B]

It's hard (and a bit ridiculous) to explain but the difference is this -

To say Alan, the "an" sound comes from closer to the throat and the bottom jaw opens ever so slightly more.

To say Allen, the "eh" is more breathy and nasally.

Understood -- just not done that way around here is all.

EDIT: Do those differences hold up at conversational speed? I'd guess those differences wouldn't be salient to someone coming from a different dialect background.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

It's hard (and a bit ridiculous) to explain but the difference is this -

To say Alan, the "an" sound comes from closer to the throat and the bottom jaw opens ever so slightly more.

To say Allen, the "eh" is more breathy and nasally.

Understood -- just not done that way around here is all.

I'm not sure how much it is around here either, frankly. But I'm a stranger in a strange land no matter where I go so...