Do "dawn" and "don" rhyme? (1 Viewer)

[RedmondLonghorn]

I am actually kind of surprised that only 60% of the respondents talk funny. I would have figured it would be more like 75%.

 

[rick6668]

Interesting study

The Don/dawn Story Test*

Recently I was walking through the woods at night with my new boyfriend, talking about school,

life, and other things. But as we talked I kept thinking about my old boyfriend Don. The night

wore on, and soon I forgot about the past and let myself enjoy the present. Before we realized it,

dawn arrived and took us by surprise. I didn’t know what to do! What do YOU think I should

have done?

* Target words are italicized.

 

[Please See Mine]

Depends on where you live.

Right. If you live in Moronville you would say "no".

Think I've posted this before, but this test will tell you if you are from Moronville then.And no, they don't exactly rhyme. "Don" has a more clipped vowel pronunciation. Do you think that dawn rhymes with bon as in bon bon?

What American accent do you have?Your Result: The West

Your accent is the lowest common denominator of American speech. Unless you're a SoCal surfer, no one thinks you have an accent. And really, you may not even be from the West at all, you could easily be from Florida or one of those big Southern cities like Dallas or Atlanta

huh, got me right on.

 

[Mjolnirs]

Think I've posted this before, but this test will tell you if you are from Moronville then.

Your Result: The Inland North

You may think you speak "Standard English straight out of the dictionary" but when you step away from the Great Lakes you get asked annoying questions like "Are you from Wisconsin?" or "Are you from Chicago?" Chances are you call carbonated drinks "pop."

Them's fightin' words!

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Interesting study

The Don/dawn Story Test*

Recently I was walking through the woods at night with my new boyfriend, talking about school,

life, and other things. But as we talked I kept thinking about my old boyfriend Don. The night

wore on, and soon I forgot about the past and let myself enjoy the present. Before we realized it,

dawn arrived and took us by surprise. I didn’t know what to do! What do YOU think I should

have done?

* Target words are italicized.

when trying to communicate, I don't understand why some of you think it's actually better to make two different words sound the same.

 

[EYLive]

How do you pronounce "Antawn Jamison"?

 

[Mr. Pickles]

Lots of people waking up to their crazy accents in here. Maybe some of you need to leave the nest already.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

How do you pronounce "Antawn Jamison"?

correctly

 

[Fullback Fro]

Ah one two

Ah one two

keep it on, yo

Keep it on

I was millin around, settin my forty down

cause I need a free hand for the mic and a round

I was shelling the troops, raising the roofs

Other MC's where fleeing the coops

Packing it On, till the crack of dawn,

Godfather of the beats, you can call me the Don

Rhymes spawn truth but its really a a con

Like a river, I'm flowing, slow and then gone.

I play you like Tron

King you like Kong

Roll you like Cheech

And smoke you like Chong

Yah, Mon,

Its on

Fo in, in 0-10.

Word

 

[Foosball God]

Depends on where you live.

Right. If you live in Moronville you would say "no".

Think I've posted this before, but this test will tell you if you are from Moronville then.And no, they don't exactly rhyme. "Don" has a more clipped vowel pronunciation. Do you think that dawn rhymes with bon as in bon bon?

What American accent do you have?Your Result: The Inland North

You may think you speak "Standard English straight out of the dictionary" but when you step away from the Great Lakes you get asked annoying questions like "Are you from Wisconsin?" or "Are you from Chicago?" Chances are you call carbonated drinks "pop."

 

[Radical Larry]

So how many of you Bowery Boys that think dawn/don are different say "hamboigah" and "livah-woist"?

 

[bostonfred]

I Fro

 

[FatMax]

Interesting study

The Don/dawn Story Test*

Recently I was walking through the woods at night with my new boyfriend, talking about school,

life, and other things. But as we talked I kept thinking about my old boyfriend Don. The night

wore on, and soon I forgot about the past and let myself enjoy the present. Before we realized it,

dawn arrived and took us by surprise. I didn’t know what to do! What do YOU think I should

have done?

* Target words are italicized.

Still the same.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

So how many of you Bowery Boys that think dawn/don are different say "hamboigah" and "livah-woist"?

my guess? <1%

 

[glumpy]

exerpt from: Language change--Vowel Shifting

The Sounds, They Are A Shiftin’

Certain vowel sounds are on the move.

Consider these linguistic puzzles:

The Smiths, natives of Philadelphia, have settled in California and are raising twins Dawn and Don. When Mom or Dad calls either child by name, both kids answer. Even though the parents are pronouncing “Dawn” and “Don” distinctly, the children can’t seem to hear any difference. Why not?

Ian of Omaha is visiting friends in Michigan, who take him to a neighborhood party. He enjoys the festivities, but something is perplexing. When he introduces himself by saying, “Hi, I’m Ian” (which he pronounces “ee-yun”), many Michiganders look confused. Some ask him why his parents gave him a woman’s name.

The situations suggested by these examples illustrate some of the many changes shaping American English. Often these linguistic developments are quite dramatic and can lead to misunderstandings like those cited above.

The Smiths’ experience highlights a dialect difference between the western states and much of the East. In the parents’ Philadelphia dialect, the names Don and Dawn are pronounced with different vowel sounds. (When saying Dawn the lips are slightly rounded; when saying Don, they are more open.) In California, where the kids learned to speak, Don and Dawn are pronounced the same, as are similar pairs such as caught ~ cot and Pauley ~ Polly. The twins’ speech illustrates a process called “merger,” in which two sounds become one. That merger of Don-and-Dawn’s “o” and “aw” sounds has become widespread throughout the West. The Smiths’ case shows that people with the merger not only don’t distinguish between the vowels in their own pronunciation but also don’t hear the difference in the speech of others.

Ian’s story illustrates another vowel shift in American English. In the Great Lakes region including Michigan, the short a sound of bat and had is often pronounced like the ea of idea; thus, bat sounds like “beeyut” and had like “heeyud.”

When Ian introduced himself, Michiganders thought he said Ann, which they pronounce “ee-yun.” This change is part of a phenomenon known as the Northern Cities Vowel Shift. This pattern also affects the vowels of box, bought, but, bet and bit. The pattern is especially common in urban areas such as Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland and Buffalo; hence the Northern Cities label.

 

[Radical Larry]

exerpt from: Language change--Vowel Shifting

The Sounds, They Are A Shiftin’

Certain vowel sounds are on the move.

Consider these linguistic puzzles:

The Smiths, natives of Philadelphia, have settled in California and are raising twins Dawn and Don. When Mom or Dad calls either child by name, both kids answer. Even though the parents are pronouncing “Dawn” and “Don” distinctly, the children can’t seem to hear any difference. Why not?

Ian of Omaha is visiting friends in Michigan, who take him to a neighborhood party. He enjoys the festivities, but something is perplexing. When he introduces himself by saying, “Hi, I’m Ian” (which he pronounces “ee-yun”), many Michiganders look confused. Some ask him why his parents gave him a woman’s name.

The situations suggested by these examples illustrate some of the many changes shaping American English. Often these linguistic developments are quite dramatic and can lead to misunderstandings like those cited above.

The Smiths’ experience highlights a dialect difference between the western states and much of the East. In the parents’ Philadelphia dialect, the names Don and Dawn are pronounced with different vowel sounds. (When saying Dawn the lips are slightly rounded; when saying Don, they are more open.) In California, where the kids learned to speak, Don and Dawn are pronounced the same, as are similar pairs such as caught ~ cot and Pauley ~ Polly. The twins’ speech illustrates a process called “merger,” in which two sounds become one. That merger of Don-and-Dawn’s “o” and “aw” sounds has become widespread throughout the West. The Smiths’ case shows that people with the merger not only don’t distinguish between the vowels in their own pronunciation but also don’t hear the difference in the speech of others.

Ian’s story illustrates another vowel shift in American English. In the Great Lakes region including Michigan, the short a sound of bat and had is often pronounced like the ea of idea; thus, bat sounds like “beeyut” and had like “heeyud.”

When Ian introduced himself, Michiganders thought he said Ann, which they pronounce “ee-yun.” This change is part of a phenomenon known as the Northern Cities Vowel Shift. This pattern also affects the vowels of box, bought, but, bet and bit. The pattern is especially common in urban areas such as Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland and Buffalo; hence the Northern Cities label.

:hawnda:

 

[brown recluse]

Fawn rhymes with Dawn

Con ryhmes with Don

All four of these rhyme.You people are so weird.

No, they don't. offdee's examples are valid.

I actually had this debate with Smoo in 2004. It got to the point where he actually called me on the phone to hear how these two names are in fact pronounced differently. His position didn't officially change, but he conceded that he could see how I could perceive there is a difference.

I think that thread was nuked, but he makes reference to it here.

DON doesn't rhyme with DAWN.

DON rhymes with JOHN.

JOHN and DAWN ####### RHYME!!!

What's it like bein deff?

 

[Foosball God]

exerpt from: Language change--Vowel Shifting

The Sounds, They Are A Shiftin’

Certain vowel sounds are on the move.

Consider these linguistic puzzles:

The Smiths, natives of Philadelphia, have settled in California and are raising twins Dawn and Don. When Mom or Dad calls either child by name, both kids answer. Even though the parents are pronouncing “Dawn” and “Don” distinctly, the children can’t seem to hear any difference. Why not?

Ian of Omaha is visiting friends in Michigan, who take him to a neighborhood party. He enjoys the festivities, but something is perplexing. When he introduces himself by saying, “Hi, I’m Ian” (which he pronounces “ee-yun”), many Michiganders look confused. Some ask him why his parents gave him a woman’s name.

The situations suggested by these examples illustrate some of the many changes shaping American English. Often these linguistic developments are quite dramatic and can lead to misunderstandings like those cited above.

The Smiths’ experience highlights a dialect difference between the western states and much of the East. In the parents’ Philadelphia dialect, the names Don and Dawn are pronounced with different vowel sounds. (When saying Dawn the lips are slightly rounded; when saying Don, they are more open.) In California, where the kids learned to speak, Don and Dawn are pronounced the same, as are similar pairs such as caught ~ cot and Pauley ~ Polly. The twins’ speech illustrates a process called “merger,” in which two sounds become one. That merger of Don-and-Dawn’s “o” and “aw” sounds has become widespread throughout the West. The Smiths’ case shows that people with the merger not only don’t distinguish between the vowels in their own pronunciation but also don’t hear the difference in the speech of others.

Ian’s story illustrates another vowel shift in American English. In the Great Lakes region including Michigan, the short a sound of bat and had is often pronounced like the ea of idea; thus, bat sounds like “beeyut” and had like “heeyud.”

When Ian introduced himself, Michiganders thought he said Ann, which they pronounce “ee-yun.” This change is part of a phenomenon known as the Northern Cities Vowel Shift. This pattern also affects the vowels of box, bought, but, bet and bit. The pattern is especially common in urban areas such as Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland and Buffalo; hence the Northern Cities label.

What? No Michiganders I know say Ann like Ian.

 

[DaVinci]

exerpt from: Language change--Vowel Shifting

The Sounds, They Are A Shiftin’

Certain vowel sounds are on the move.

Consider these linguistic puzzles:

The Smiths, natives of Philadelphia, have settled in California and are raising twins Dawn and Don. When Mom or Dad calls either child by name, both kids answer. Even though the parents are pronouncing “Dawn” and “Don” distinctly, the children can’t seem to hear any difference. Why not?

Ian of Omaha is visiting friends in Michigan, who take him to a neighborhood party. He enjoys the festivities, but something is perplexing. When he introduces himself by saying, “Hi, I’m Ian” (which he pronounces “ee-yun”), many Michiganders look confused. Some ask him why his parents gave him a woman’s name.

The situations suggested by these examples illustrate some of the many changes shaping American English. Often these linguistic developments are quite dramatic and can lead to misunderstandings like those cited above.

The Smiths’ experience highlights a dialect difference between the western states and much of the East. In the parents’ Philadelphia dialect, the names Don and Dawn are pronounced with different vowel sounds. (When saying Dawn the lips are slightly rounded; when saying Don, they are more open.) In California, where the kids learned to speak, Don and Dawn are pronounced the same, as are similar pairs such as caught ~ cot and Pauley ~ Polly. The twins’ speech illustrates a process called “merger,” in which two sounds become one. That merger of Don-and-Dawn’s “o” and “aw” sounds has become widespread throughout the West. The Smiths’ case shows that people with the merger not only don’t distinguish between the vowels in their own pronunciation but also don’t hear the difference in the speech of others.

Ian’s story illustrates another vowel shift in American English. In the Great Lakes region including Michigan, the short a sound of bat and had is often pronounced like the ea of idea; thus, bat sounds like “beeyut” and had like “heeyud.”

When Ian introduced himself, Michiganders thought he said Ann, which they pronounce “ee-yun.” This change is part of a phenomenon known as the Northern Cities Vowel Shift. This pattern also affects the vowels of box, bought, but, bet and bit. The pattern is especially common in urban areas such as Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland and Buffalo; hence the Northern Cities label.

What? No Michiganders I know say Ann like Ian.

I never called my Grandma Ann "Ee-yun".

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

I posted that freaking link and story twice yesterday.

 

[bostonfred]

don juan gets it on til the break of dawn

 

[Radical Larry]

don juan gets it on til the break of dawn

Yep. All 3 sound the same.

 

[bostonfred]

don juan gets it on til the break of dawn

Yep. All 3 sound the same.

All four, actually. But the important thing is that there's a group of mutants out there who can't appreciate the artistic nature of that sentence because they choose to deprive themselves of beauty with their horrendous grating accents.

 

[Christo]

How the hell did this get to 4 pages?When pronounced correctly, THEY SOUND THE SAME.

 

[Radical Larry]

don juan gets it on til the break of dawn

Yep. All 3 sound the same.

All four, actually. But the important thing is that there's a group of mutants out there who can't appreciate the artistic nature of that sentence because they choose to deprive themselves of beauty with their horrendous grating accents.

Right, 4. Shuke was right...I can't count.

 

[RedmondLonghorn]

don juan gets it on til the break of dawn

Yep. All 3 sound the same.

All four, actually. But the important thing is that there's a group of mutants out there who can't appreciate the artistic nature of that sentence because they choose to deprive themselves of beauty with their horrendous grating accents.

 

[Raider Nation]

Who else has fred on IGNORE now?

 

[Raider Nation]

How are you screwtards voting yes here?

Oat is always the logical one.

 

[rick6668]

Everyone who thinks dawn and don are pronounced the same, when a baby does something cute, do people say "awww, how cute!" (same sound as if you are in "awe" of something), or do you guys actually say, "ahhh, how cute!" (same sound as "ah-ha, I got you")?

ETA, Do you ever use the word awe?

 

[videoguy505]

O/U 74 pages

REVISED: o/u 116 pages

 

[bostonfred]

Everyone who thinks dawn and don are pronounced the same, when a baby does something cute, do people say "awww, how cute!" (same sound as if you are in "awe" of something), or do you guys actually say, "ahhh, how cute!" (same sound as "ah-ha, I got you")?ETA, Do you ever use the word awe?

awe is pronounced identically to ah. It is not pronounced awah. If your point is based on the spelling of the ga-ga sounds people make to cute babies, that's pretty lame. Note that all of the a's in the last sentence are also identical.

 

[Doug B]

awe is pronounced identically to ah. It is not pronounced awah.

In YOUR dialect, yes. Not right, not wrong ... a variant.Can't believe people aren't grasping the equivocality here, and insisting on some kind of nonexistant standard.

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

awe is pronounced identically to ah.

C'mon, you're just arguing for the sake of it now.

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

awe is pronounced identically to ah. It is not pronounced awah.

In YOUR dialect, yes. Not right, not wrong ... a variant.Can't believe people aren't grasping the equivocality here, and insisting on some kind of nonexistant standard.

Heck, let's just pronounce every word in the language the same because it doesn't matter and nobody is wrong.

 

[Mr. Pickles]

Who else has fred on IGNORE now?

I have the "selective post viewing" add-on for Firefox.

 

[Doug B]

Everyone who thinks dawn and don are pronounced the same, when a baby does something cute, do people say "awww, how cute!" (same sound as if you are in "awe" of something), or do you guys actually say, "ahhh, how cute!" (same sound as "ah-ha, I got you")?ETA, Do you ever use the word awe?

From our point of view -- yes, in fact, they DO say "AAAAAHHH, how cute".There's a woman from Iowa who uses AH all the time. "AAAAHHH, HAH CUTE!" "I LAHVE QUAHKER AHTS FAH BRAHKFAHST IN THE MAHNING!" Basically, a one-vowel dialect

 

[Foosball God]

Everyone who thinks dawn and don are pronounced the same, when a baby does something cute, do people say "awww, how cute!" (same sound as if you are in "awe" of something), or do you guys actually say, "ahhh, how cute!" (same sound as "ah-ha, I got you")?ETA, Do you ever use the word awe?

awe is pronounced identically to ah.

 

[rick6668]

Everyone who thinks dawn and don are pronounced the same, when a baby does something cute, do people say "awww, how cute!" (same sound as if you are in "awe" of something), or do you guys actually say, "ahhh, how cute!" (same sound as "ah-ha, I got you")?ETA, Do you ever use the word awe?

awe is pronounced identically to ah. It is not pronounced awah. If your point is based on the spelling of the ga-ga sounds people make to cute babies, that's pretty lame. Note that all of the a's in the last sentence are also identical.

No one says awah. This thread is ahsome.

 

[Masked Vigilante]

I've never seen Aaron so fired up and passionate about something. It's turning me on.

 

[mcintyre1]

awe is pronounced identically to ah.

C'mon, you're just arguing for the sake of it now.

Fight the good fight Fred, you're right on this one.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

awe is pronounced identically to ah. It is not pronounced awah. If your point is based on the spelling of the ga-ga sounds people make to cute babies, that's pretty lame. Note that all of the a's in the last sentence are also identical.

No one says awah.

,sFred constantly saying that made up words are wrong as a way to try and prove his point is good shtick though.

 

[Ilov80s]

awe is pronounced identically to ah. It is not pronounced awah.

In YOUR dialect, yes. Not right, not wrong ... a variant.Can't believe people aren't grasping the equivocality here, and insisting on some kind of nonexistant standard.

You really just can't hear it can you? This is fascinating that 90% of all the people in the media/tv/movies are talking one way and still some people can't even hear it.

 

[Doug B]

awe is pronounced identically to ah. It is not pronounced awah.

In YOUR dialect, yes. Not right, not wrong ... a variant.Can't believe people aren't grasping the equivocality here, and insisting on some kind of nonexistant standard.

Heck, let's just pronounce every word in the language the same because it doesn't matter and nobody is wrong.

Someone always eventually breaks this out, thinking they've got the GOTCHA! argument. Two problems with the
idea:1) You still have make yourself understood. "Don" vs. "Dawn" rarely cause real comprehension problems. But pronouncing "Dawn" as "Throatwobbler Mangrove" leads to miscomprehension. If your audience cannot get your message because of nonce pronunciation, that IS categorically incorrect (unless your point is to be deliberately misunderstood).

2) Well aside from questions of "correct/incorrect" are questions of style -- e.g. low-class/high-class, professional/blue-collar, and many others. Guys who talk like Snoop Dogg around their buddies are not employing incorrect English at all (no, really) ... but using the same speech style at a white-collar job interview is a pretty grave violation of style.

 

[Doug B]

awe is pronounced identically to ah. It is not pronounced awah.

In YOUR dialect, yes. Not right, not wrong ... a variant.Can't believe people aren't grasping the equivocality here, and insisting on some kind of nonexistant standard.

You really just can't hear it can you? This is fascinating that 90% of all the people in the media/tv/movies are talking one way and still some people can't even hear it.

Addressing me or Fred? I pronounce "Don" and "Dawn" differently, FWIW.

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

awe is pronounced identically to ah.

C'mon, you're just arguing for the sake of it now.

It's gawt to be shtick.

 

[Foosball God]

awe is pronounced identically to ah. It is not pronounced awah.

In YOUR dialect, yes. Not right, not wrong ... a variant.Can't believe people aren't grasping the equivocality here, and insisting on some kind of nonexistant standard.

Heck, let's just pronounce every word in the language the same because it doesn't matter and nobody is wrong.

Someone always eventually breaks this out, thinking they've got the GOTCHA! argument. Two problems with the

I agree. I think French people aren't really speaking French, they are speaking perfect English, they are just using their own style.

 

[Ilov80s]

awe is pronounced identically to ah. It is not pronounced awah.

In YOUR dialect, yes. Not right, not wrong ... a variant.Can't believe people aren't grasping the equivocality here, and insisting on some kind of nonexistant standard.

You really just can't hear it can you? This is fascinating that 90% of all the people in the media/tv/movies are talking one way and still some people can't even hear it.

Addressing me or Fred? I pronounce "Don" and "Dawn" differently, FWIW.

Sorry, I mistook you for one of them .

 

[Doug B]

Sorry, I mistook you for one of them .

There's no shame in not distinguishing "Don/Dawn", though. It's the same thing as native Spanish speakers not distinguishing between "lip/leap". The vowel distinctions don't exist for those speakers, and thus the perceptual difference is never acquired.

 

[Jayrod]

So let me get this straight.....when I make an O with my mouth while saying Don, I'm suddenly now saying Dawn....even though it sounds identical?

I'm sitting here in my office moving my mouth back and forth between wider and narrower saying, "Don, Don, Don, Don, Don..." Thanks to all of you who insist that this is some differnt pronunciation, my co-workers think I'm ######ed.

 

[DaVinci]

So let me get this straight.....when I make an O with my mouth while saying Don, I'm suddenly now saying Dawn....even though it sounds virtually identical?I'm sitting here in my office moving my mouth back and forth between wider and narrower saying, "Don, Don, Don, Don, Don..." Thanks to all of you who insist that this is some differnt pronunciation, my co-workers think I'm ######ed.

If you can't distinguish between don and dawn, your co-workers are right.