Do you think the Chargers regret Rivers? (1 Viewer)

[NY/NJMFDIVER]

How strong would the Chargers look right now if they took Gallery and had him blocking for LT2 and Brees QBing? Do you think they regret the pick now, and is there any chance we could see a straight up swap, since Oakland is probably being thrust into rebuiling mode and Collins doesn't look like the answer?I realize this would have to play out over the season, Brees and Collins would both need to maintain their current levels of play for anything to happen. But if they do, what do you think? It would be win-win for both squads.

 

[3C's]

I would think the jury is still out on Gallery. Sure he was a dominant college lineman, but he wouldn't be the first bust 1st round O-lineman. He didn't win the starting job to open the season, but is now playing RT instead of the LT spot he played in college. I haven't seen him play yet in a regular season game, so I don't know how he's doing. Brees is getting the job done, but Rivers will probably be better. Brees will either be on another team next year, or he'll be backing up Rivers.

 

[creeps1313]

I dont think they regret it at all. Arent they currently trying to trade Brees? Marty has no confidence in Brees and cant wait for him to faulter so he can put Rivers in there. They are just happy that Brees is doing well enough to get Rivers enough work before being thrown to the wolves.

 

[the rover]

I dont think they regret it at all. Arent they currently trying to trade Brees? Marty has no confidence in Brees and cant wait for him to faulter so he can put Rivers in there. They are just happy that Brees is doing well enough to get Rivers enough work before being thrown to the wolves.

 

[NY/NJMFDIVER]

I dont think they regret it at all. Arent they currently trying to trade Brees? Marty has no confidence in Brees and cant wait for him to faulter so he can put Rivers in there. They are just happy that Brees is doing well enough to get Rivers enough work before being thrown to the wolves.

What would he do if Brees ever got them to a playoff spot? Brees isn't an old man like Kitna(compartively) in Cincy. I never understood why they didn't take Gallery to begin with, but I don't follow the team all that closely. If they are going to trade Brees, could his value be any higher if you think he's not the answer at QB?

 

[omally]

No, I don't think they regret it all.

 

[3C's]

Brees isn't winning games with his playmaking. Differnce is, this year he's not losing games by throwing picks or missing open receivers. Noone will trade for him because he's an average qb and his contract is up at the end of the year. Why spend a draft pick on a guy if you can get him for nothing next year.

 

[SammyJankis]

Trading Rivers or Gallery this early just isn't feasible with the NFL's salary cap. If you trade a player, any money tied up in a signing bonus is accelerated to the current year. Rivers and Gallery have such gigantic signing bonuses from being top picks that neither team could afford to deal them. Any team with a top 10 selection is effectively married to that player for at least three or four years.Brees on the other hand is dealable. He was the 1st pick in the 2nd round and has played out most of his contract. The hit the Chargers would take against the cap for dealing him would be neglible.So it looks like the Chargers have painted themselves into a corner. Keeping Brees and dealing Rivers looks like a good move, but financially Brees is the only one they can deal.No one in San Diego probably cares right now as long as the Chargers are winning, but as soon as they lose a couple this will become a hot topic. I am guessing that in 05, the Chargers will probably be forced to give Rivers a shot ala Jon Kitna in Cincinatti.

 

[Air Coryell]

Picking up the extra 1st rounder and Nate Kaeding for trading down 3 spots was a steal. I never wanted to draft another QB. Brees did not play that poorly all things considered. Just needed time to throw an weapons. Gates and Caldwell have stepped up this yr, as has the O-line.Looking back can you imagine if the Chargers had the Giants take Roy Williams at #4 instead of Rivers.

 

[Gr00vus]

I dont think they regret it at all. Arent they currently trying to trade Brees? Marty has no confidence in Brees and cant wait for him to faulter so he can put Rivers in there. They are just happy that Brees is doing well enough to get Rivers enough work before being thrown to the wolves.

No they aren't trying to trade Brees. Unless he gets hurt Brees will finish the season as the starter, Rivers will get a chance to learn the ropes and depending on how far he gets he'll either be the starter next year or they may sign someone to be the starter if they don't feel Rivers is ready for it.I imagine if the Chargers still feel they need to address their offensive line, they will do so with one of their two 1st round picks next year. However I attribute most of the success Brees has had this season to the fact that the offensive line is playing much, much better than last year. So I doubt there's much regret on the Chargers' behalf at this juncture.

 

[3C's]

Picking up the extra 1st rounder and Nate Kaeding for trading down 3 spots was a steal. I never wanted to draft another QB. Brees did not play that poorly all things considered. Just needed time to throw an weapons. Gates and Caldwell have stepped up this yr, as has the O-line.Looking back can you imagine if the Chargers had the Giants take Roy Williams at #4 instead of Rivers.

Man...LT, Gates and Williams would be pretty potent!

 

[tommyGunZ]

Williams' career would be wasted with Brees behind center.The guy has proven he's not a playmaker at the NFL level. Brees would fit well in Baltimore or New England, where he could play conservatively at QB and allow the defense to win games.As a Charger fan, I'm praying we deal Brees by Tuesday, and give Rivers the nod next Sunday.

 

[-OZ-]

Williams' career would be wasted with Brees behind center.The guy has proven he's not a playmaker at the NFL level. Brees would fit well in Baltimore or New England, where he could play conservatively at QB and allow the defense to win games.As a Charger fan, I'm praying we deal Brees by Tuesday, and give Rivers the nod next Sunday.

I agree to an extent.Brees falls squarely in the line of QBs that won't make a lot of mistakes, but won't win the game for the team, like Boller and Fiedler just to name 2.Brady was in that line, but IMO he's stepped up as a leader and might not be the flashiest guy, but is a true team's QB. Give Brady weapons like Marvin or Moss and watch out. You can't say that about Boller, Brees or Fiedler IMO. Brees could easily be in Miami next year if they decide to draft a RB in the 1st.The D is strong, the RB could be, they would need to address the line, but I think Brees would do well there.As for the question of whether they regret taking Rivers, not any more than NYG regrets Eli (probably less so, as it was a lower price).

 

[10993]

Brees falls squarely in the line of QBs that won't make a lot of mistakes, but won't win the game for the team, like Boller and Fiedler just to name 2.

Boller and Fiedler make tons of mistakes and lose games because of it. You meant to cite examples like Trent Dilfer on his way to the Super Bowl--that was they type of QB ou're trying to describe. But Baltimore is losing precisely because Boller isn't even that reliable.

 

[-OZ-]

Brees falls squarely in the line of QBs that won't make a lot of mistakes, but won't win the game for the team, like Boller and Fiedler just to name 2.

Boller and Fiedler make tons of mistakes and lose games because of it. You meant to cite examples like Trent Dilfer on his way to the Super Bowl--that was they type of QB ou're trying to describe. But Baltimore is losing precisely because Boller isn't even that reliable.

Actually, Baltimore is losing because of injuries.Give them Heap and Jamal together and they'll win most games.Their WR corps SUCKS :X - we thought SD's was bad. Miami is losing because of a ####### :jester: :bluedjinn: Fiedler was pretty solid when he HAD A TEAM / RB. He has never had the weapons - WR and RB. Peyton Manning would not win in Miami right now. Neither would Brady, Culpepper, McNabb, Marino, etc.

 

[10993]

Actually, they're losing because of injuries.Give them Heap and Jamal together and they'll win most games....Fiedler was pretty dang solid when he HAD A TEAM / RB....Peyton Manning would not win in Miami right now. Neither would Brady, Culpepper, McNabb, Marino, etc.

a) in baltimore's first loss this year, boller threw the ball 38 times for 2 picks and under 200 yds. since then, they have had to reign him back to throwing under 20 times a game to prevent him from turning it over, and the team has suffered because of it--also jamal lewis hasn't been out yet, so i don't know what you're talking about thereb) fiedler was never "pretty damn solid" at anything but handing the ball to ricky williamsc) peyton would absolutely succeed in miami today. give him chambers, booker, and mcmichael (a truly solid combo) to throw the ball to, and a defense like they've got, and peyton's got 2 or 3 wins this year.

 

[Lauryn]

Williams' career would be wasted with Brees behind center.The guy has proven he's not a playmaker at the NFL level. Brees would fit well in Baltimore or New England, where he could play conservatively at QB and allow the defense to win games.As a Charger fan, I'm praying we deal Brees by Tuesday, and give Rivers the nod next Sunday.

do most SD fans feel that way? i would think some of them would be "put off" by trading brees considering that he's playing well (don't get me wrong...i don't think it will last either) and the team is winning.

 

[mojorizin]

Williams' career would be wasted with Brees behind center.The guy has proven he's not a playmaker at the NFL level. Brees would fit well in Baltimore or New England, where he could play conservatively at QB and allow the defense to win games.As a Charger fan, I'm praying we deal Brees by Tuesday, and give Rivers the nod next Sunday.

do most SD fans feel that way? i would think some of them would be "put off" by trading brees considering that he's playing well (don't get me wrong...i don't think it will last either) and the team is winning.

The entire San Diego franchise has never let winning stand in the way, so this shouldn't be much of a problem.

 

[Bojang0301]

Brees' sure doesn't look like what you all are talking about this year. I doubt Williams career would be a waste anywhere with his physical talent. People that looked at Williams numbers in college were fooled by the idiotic ball control offense they run that causes them to lose to OK every year.Edit to add: SD is this year's Cincy. Not sure if River's will be like Palmer (In, honesty I doubt it and it still may be too early in the year to write off Palmer). SD has a better foundation then people give them credit for. Guess we'll just have to see if this is a mistake somewhere down the line.

 

[creeps1313]

I live in SoCal, and most of the Charger fans I know are very happy with Brees....but they are excited about Rivers. Charger fans are happy if they are winning.

 

[Hendo]

I would think the jury is still out on Gallery. Sure he was a dominant college lineman, but he wouldn't be the first bust 1st round O-lineman. He didn't win the starting job to open the season, but is now playing RT instead of the LT spot he played in college. I haven't seen him play yet in a regular season game, so I don't know how he's doing. Brees is getting the job done, but Rivers will probably be better. Brees will either be on another team next year, or he'll be backing up Rivers.

i HIGHLY doubt Gallery is a bust... in fact if u were to judge who the safest pick in the draft was my answer and many others would of said "Robert Gallery"ther ehave been a consensus pattern with OL picked in the 1st that they tend to pan out.

 

[Bojang0301]

I would think the jury is still out on Gallery. Sure he was a dominant college lineman, but he wouldn't be the first bust 1st round O-lineman. He didn't win the starting job to open the season, but is now playing RT instead of the LT spot he played in college. I haven't seen him play yet in a regular season game, so I don't know how he's doing. Brees is getting the job done, but Rivers will probably be better. Brees will either be on another team next year, or he'll be backing up Rivers.

i HIGHLY doubt Gallery is a bust... in fact if u were to judge who the safest pick in the draft was my answer and many others would of said "Robert Gallery"ther ehave been a consensus pattern with OL picked in the 1st that they tend to pan out.

It is either no OL or no OT that has been drafted in the top 15 has been a bust.

 

[Christo]

Noone will trade for him because he's an average qb and his contract is up at the end of the year. Why spend a draft pick on a guy if you can get him for nothing next year.

To guaranty that you're the team that gets him. It doesn't have to be a high draft pick, just something so that they could be assured of getting him and the Chargers can walk away with something. There's a couple of teams out there that could really use him right now.

 

[Christo]

It is either no OL or no OT that has been drafted in the top 15 has been a bust.

Close, but I do believe that Mandarich would have to be considered a bust. Other than him, it's been a pretty solid position to draft over the last 15 years.

 

[Insipid549]

How would Roy Williams be a waste in San Diego? He's putting up great performances with Joey Freaking Harrington at QB, who I feel is worse than Brees.I don't think this is a fluke performance by Brees; I think this is what Brees has been capable of all along, just needing some time and some receivers who could run routes. The Packers are looking at Brees, and I'd hate to see that happen. I saw Brees play several times at Purdue, and being a Bears fan, I'd be torn.

 

[tommyGunZ]

I don't think this is a fluke performance by Brees; I think this is what Brees has been capable of all along, just needing some time and some receivers who could run routes.

Look at Brees' career game log. He ain't this good. I wanted Brees to succeed. I thought benching him for Flutie last year was a mistake. But I'm convinced that Brees will never be a star. He's too short, and his arm isn't strong or accurate enough. The OL was terrible last year, but Brees made his fair share of mistakes. And remember, Brees has the most dangerous threat in the NFL in the backfield beside him, so he's not looking at the most difficult defensive backfield schemes. Safeties cheat up all the time against the Chargers.On the other hand, he's smart, hard nosed, and has a winning attitude. I'd love to keep him as Rivers' backup.

 

[Insipid549]

I don't think you can say "look at his game log" and come to a definite conclusion, especially given that he's working for a coach who doesn't exactly place QB a high priority.

 

[Air Coryell]

Williams' career would be wasted with Brees behind center.The guy has proven he's not a playmaker at the NFL level. Brees would fit well in Baltimore or New England, where he could play conservatively at QB and allow the defense to win games.As a Charger fan, I'm praying we deal Brees by Tuesday, and give Rivers the nod next Sunday.

We disagree here. I don't know that any QB could do well with the O-line and WR Brees had for the first 3 seasons. Much to my surprise this team is better than expected this year. Brees with time to throw looks solid. With a viable receiver in Gates, and even a decent improvement w/ Caldwell I think he's doing fine.I don't understand how you can say Williams career would be wasted especially when you factor in he'd be on the field w/ LT and Gates.Drafting Rivers was a mistake. This team needed another threat on offense not someone to hold the clipboard.

 

[eriadoc]

The guy has proven he's not a playmaker at the NFL level. Brees would fit well in Baltimore or New England, where he could play conservatively at QB and allow the defense to win games.

I find this topic and the bolded statement to be interesting. I don't watch SD games, so I am totally taking this from an outsider's viewpoint., I have no knowledge of the man's intangibles, so take this in perspective. I do find it interesting, however, that Brees had 27 pass attempts prior to the 2002 season. 2001 was his rookie year. In 2002, he posted the follwing stats --3284 PaYd

60.8% completion

17 TD/16 INT (rare for a rookie/1st year starter to have a positive ratio here)

76.9 rating

He regressed last year, and the team gave up on him. It was only his second season with any playing time (3rd overall), and the Chargers gave up on him. So now, after he's "proven he's not a playmaker at the NFL level", he has the following stats so far this year --

893 PaYd

61.0% completion

8 TD/2 INT

100.0 rating

Maybe when the guys around him start performing, he can play?

Here's an interesting parallel -- Michael Vick. He has done almost the same thing, but the Falcons aren't giving up on him (nor should they). In his "good" year, two years ago (right after his rookie season, where he had more playing time than Brees), Vick posted these stats --

2936 PaYd

54.9% completion

16 TD/8 INT (rare)

81.6 rating

This year for Vick? --

801 PaYd

60.2% completion

2 TD/3 INT

77.7 rating

Vick also had a ton of rushing yards that first season, which is what gets people so excited about him, but he hasn't shown any better QB skills than Brees at this point, yet the Chargers are giving up on Brees. I am sure if I bothered to check Brees' stats against other 3rd-year QBs, they would stack up pretty well, and the other QBs would not have stellar numbers for their first two seasons.

Asking sincerely here -- Are the Chargers making a dumb move giving up on Brees? This is a young QB that IS showing progress. Look at some of the young QBs in this league that have been given the chance to show that growth and look what they've done. As I said above, I don't know much about Brees beyond what I have seen in a few games and looking at stats, so take it FWIW.

 

[BoltBacker]

Brees on the other hand is dealable. He was the 1st pick in the 2nd round and has played out most of his contract. The hit the Chargers would take against the cap for dealing him would be neglible.So it looks like the Chargers have painted themselves into a corner. Keeping Brees and dealing Rivers looks like a good move, but financially Brees is the only one they can deal.No one in San Diego probably cares right now as long as the Chargers are winning, but as soon as they lose a couple this will become a hot topic. I am guessing that in 05, the Chargers will probably be forced to give Rivers a shot ala Jon Kitna in Cincinatti.

Brees is only dealable if someone is willing to give something up that makes the trade worth it to SD and that seems awfully unlikely given his contract situation as many others have already touched on.I'm not sure why there is so much hand-wringing about Brees/Rivers on the same roster. This is the NFL. It's a pretty good idea to have two guys that you feel comfortable playing QB on your roster anyway. Chances are one or both of them miss some time this season due to injury. The Chargers certainly haven't "painted themselves into a corner" by having both Rivers/Brees. If anything they have painted themselves into a corner by not having a #3 QB they could groom to be Rivers back up next season.Have all these people that seem to be Brees-Backers actually seen the guy play???? My bet is plenty of these people have only seen stat lines whey they make their evaluation of him.

 

[Gr00vus]

People, it's real simple. With no pressure on him, Brees is an effective qb. He had a solid season in 2002 as the line gave him adequate protection, and I expected him to have a similar year this year as the line is again respectable.However, Brees has not, is not and will never be a top NFL QB. He doesn't have the physical tools for it, and he tends to break down under pressure. He's had some good games this year to be sure, but he also had a lot to do with the two losses as well. He's in his fourth year and he still makes glaring errors that really hurt the team more often than a "stud" qb should. Brees is a .500 caliber qb. Mediocre at best.With Rivers the Chargers are taking a shot at DEVELOPING a good to great qb. That's why Brees and Flutie are around this year, to keep Rivers in a comfortable development zone while also allowing the team to have a chance at success this season. Most qbs who have successful careers don't develop overnight - it takes a couple of seasons' worth of adjustment. Holding a clipboard is what Rivers SHOULD be doing right now as a rookie.By taking Rivers and the draft picks the Chargers have put themselves into a situation where they could just have their cake and eat it too. I'm certain there will be offensive linemen and wide receivers available in next year's draft, in which the Chargers currently have 2 first round picks as a result of the trade, that can help the Chargers out should they need to go in that direction. With the deal they got, the not only have those upcomming picks but also a potential franchise QB AND a very solid place kicker.Stop the madness, there's been no mistake here by the Chargers, given the situation they were forced into.

 

[Insipid549]

Besides height, what did people see in Rivers that they didn't see in Brees in college?(Not a loaded question, I just couldn't tell much of a difference myself)

 

[cstu]

Picking up the extra 1st rounder and Nate Kaeding for trading down 3 spots was a steal. I never wanted to draft another QB. Brees did not play that poorly all things considered. Just needed time to throw an weapons. Gates and Caldwell have stepped up this yr, as has the O-line.Looking back can you imagine if the Chargers had the Giants take Roy Williams at #4 instead of Rivers.

Forget about choosing between Gallery and Rivers. The real choice was Gallery or Rivers, Kaeding, Giants' 2005 #1, and Giants' 2005 #5. Easy choice in my mind. Also, nobody in SD thought Brees was going to play as well as he has. It's actually a little unfortunate that the Chargers are doing so well and they won't be able to trade Brees and get something for him.

 

[cstu]

Besides height, what did people see in Rivers that they didn't see in Brees in college?(Not a loaded question, I just couldn't tell much of a difference myself)

That's about it, but it's huge in the NFL. I have nothing against Brees - he was great in college and is playing well this year - but Rivers has the potential to be a stud QB and I don't think the same can be said of Brees.

 

[Bojang0301]

Picking up the extra 1st rounder and Nate Kaeding for trading down 3 spots was a steal. I never wanted to draft another QB. Brees did not play that poorly all things considered. Just needed time to throw an weapons. Gates and Caldwell have stepped up this yr, as has the O-line.Looking back can you imagine if the Chargers had the Giants take Roy Williams at #4 instead of Rivers.

Forget about choosing between Gallery and Rivers. The real choice was Gallery or Rivers, Kaeding, Giants' 2005 #1, and Giants' 2005 #5. Easy choice in my mind. Also, nobody in SD thought Brees was going to play as well as he has. It's actually a little unfortunate that the Chargers are doing so well and they won't be able to trade Brees and get something for him.

Only in San Diego is it unfortunate for them to win.

 

[lionsroar]

The bottom line is. The chargers gave up too early on Brees. He was a great qb in college and has the stuff in the pros. His wrs finally are stepping up as well. If they don't regret the River's pick they will. Brees is a good Qb in this league. and the team would have benifitted a Roy Williams draft pick or a couple of picks used to sow up that Offensive line. Rivers = Leaf all over again. I guess the lions should give up on Harrington after this year too...

 

[gOOfY]

As a Charger fan, I'm praying we deal Brees by Tuesday, and give Rivers the nod next Sunday.

Next year.. you might be wishing Brees was starting

 

[omally]

Rivers = Leaf all over again.

Wow, that is very ignorant statement. Rivers hasn't even played in a regular season game yet and he is being equaled to Leaf? Unbelievable.

 

[baconstripdivots]

Rivers = Leaf all over again.

Wow, that is very ignorant statement. Rivers hasn't even played in a regular season game yet and he is being equaled to Leaf? Unbelievable.

I agree, omally. Rivers holdout cost him a starting job. And with Brees getting it done so far there's no reason to let Rivers get playing time. But to compare Rivers to Leaf when he hasn't taken a regular season snap is just ridiculous. IMO, Rivers has all the tools to become a solid QB, so if you're in a keeper league take note. I don't understand how anyone can form an opinion without seeing a player actually PLAY.Dave

 

[cstu]

Rivers = Leaf all over again.

Wow, that is very ignorant statement. Rivers hasn't even played in a regular season game yet and he is being equaled to Leaf? Unbelievable.

I agree, omally. Rivers holdout cost him a starting job. And with Brees getting it done so far there's no reason to let Rivers get playing time. But to compare Rivers to Leaf when he hasn't taken a regular season snap is just ridiculous. IMO, Rivers has all the tools to become a solid QB, so if you're in a keeper league take note. I don't understand how anyone can form an opinion without seeing a player actually PLAY.Dave

Wow, that statement has to be from someone who never saw what Leaf was like. He was one of the biggest jerks the NFL has ever seen and other than holding out Rivers hasn't done anything wrong. At the games I've been to I've always seen Rivers talking to Flutie during the game and he seems very excited about the team.

 

[-OZ-]

Actually, they're losing because of injuries.Give them Heap and Jamal together and they'll win most games....Fiedler was pretty dang solid when he HAD A TEAM / RB....Peyton Manning would not win in Miami right now. Neither would Brady, Culpepper, McNabb, Marino, etc.

a) in baltimore's first loss this year, boller threw the ball 38 times for 2 picks and under 200 yds. since then, they have had to reign him back to throwing under 20 times a game to prevent him from turning it over, and the team has suffered because of it--also jamal lewis hasn't been out yet, so i don't know what you're talking about thereb) fiedler was never "pretty damn solid" at anything but handing the ball to ricky williamsc) peyton would absolutely succeed in miami today. give him chambers, booker, and mcmichael (a truly solid combo) to throw the ball to, and a defense like they've got, and peyton's got 2 or 3 wins this year.

a) I meant it as a "wait until they are both on the same field together" comment. Of course Jamal has played thus far, but don't hang this comment out to dry until they're both back - I was hedging for a couple more weeks. Maybe I worded it wrong, but the idea is to wait until they have their full team before passing judgment.b) He didn't win games on his own, but he was able to do what Wanny wanted. Replace Dilfer with Fiedler, and Baltimore still wins the Super Bowl. He was a solid QB, but not great, probably not even real good.c) So he'd be 2-4? ok, great. The fact is Miami is in a state of chaos, nobody would take the team to the playoffs.

QUOTE (lionsroar @ Oct 15 2004, 08:45 PM) Rivers = Leaf all over again. Wow, that is very ignorant statement. Rivers hasn't even played in a regular season game yet and he is being equaled to Leaf? Unbelievable.

I'm sure you've noticed by now, anyone that isn't Peyton Manning in their rookie season is Ryan Leaf. When will people learn that even the #1 pick isn't based on the next season, but is a long term investment? Sure some teams take this too far (CHIEFS) but many fans take it to the opposite extreme and assume the ROY is the best player from that draft. I hope I don't have to explain that sentence to a "Shark".

 

[Bojang0301]

Actually, they're losing because of injuries.

Give them Heap and Jamal together and they'll win most games.

...

Fiedler was pretty dang solid when he HAD A TEAM / RB.

...

Peyton Manning would not win in Miami right now. Neither would Brady, Culpepper, McNabb, Marino, etc.

a) in baltimore's first loss this year, boller threw the ball 38 times for 2 picks and under 200 yds. since then, they have had to reign him back to throwing under 20 times a game to prevent him from turning it over, and the team has suffered because of it--also jamal lewis hasn't been out yet, so i don't know what you're talking about thereb) fiedler was never "pretty damn solid" at anything but handing the ball to ricky williams

c) peyton would absolutely succeed in miami today. give him chambers, booker, and mcmichael (a truly solid combo) to throw the ball to, and a defense like they've got, and peyton's got 2 or 3 wins this year.

a) I meant it as a "wait until they are both on the same field together" comment. Of course Jamal has played thus far, but don't hang this comment out to dry until they're both back - I was hedging for a couple more weeks. Maybe I worded it wrong, but the idea is to wait until they have their full team before passing judgment.b) He didn't win games on his own, but he was able to do what Wanny wanted. Replace Dilfer with Fiedler, and Baltimore still wins the Super Bowl. He was a solid QB, but not great, probably not even real good.

c) So he'd be 2-4? ok, great. The fact is Miami is in a state of chaos, nobody would take the team to the playoffs.

QUOTE (lionsroar @ Oct 15 2004, 08:45 PM)

Rivers = Leaf all over again. 

Wow, that is very ignorant statement. Rivers hasn't even played in a regular season game yet and he is being equaled to Leaf? Unbelievable.

I'm sure you've noticed by now, anyone that isn't Peyton Manning in their rookie season is Ryan Leaf. When will people learn that even the #1 pick isn't based on the next season, but is a long term investment? Sure some teams take this too far (CHIEFS) but many fans take it to the opposite extreme and assume the ROY is the best player from that draft. I hope I don't have to explain that sentence to a "Shark".

So that makes Rothlisberger Marino, correct?

 

[TwinTurbo]

I never understood all the hype around Rivers before the draft. I watched some of his games in college and saw some game tapes too. Yes he threw for a ton of yards, but I didn't see anything special that really stood out other than his toughness and strange throwing mechanics. He was very accurate in the short passing game but looked like 2nd or 3rd round talent overall to me. Not a sure fire 1st round pick. Same as Brees. I'm guessing the Chargers were probably the only team that had him ranked higher than Eli and Big Ben. Out of the 3, I liked Roethlisberger the most. He just seemed to have that leadership quality to go along with the cannon arm. A true QB attitude and smarts to go along with the skills. I'm sure all 3 will have their growing pains but I think Roethlisberger is the most likely to succeed.

 

[jwvdcw]

Brees isn't winning games with his playmaking. Differnce is, this year he's not losing games by throwing picks or missing open receivers. Noone will trade for him because he's an average qb and his contract is up at the end of the year. Why spend a draft pick on a guy if you can get him for nothing next year.

Jeez..isn't this guy in this 3rd year in the league??? What do you all expect of him? Most QBs take time to develop. To ust 'not lose games by throwing picks or missing open WRs' is pretty good for a 3rd year QB imo.

 

[jwvdcw]

Actually, they're losing because of injuries.Give them Heap and Jamal together and they'll win most games....Fiedler was pretty dang solid when he HAD A TEAM / RB....Peyton Manning would not win in Miami right now. Neither would Brady, Culpepper, McNabb, Marino, etc.

a) in baltimore's first loss this year, boller threw the ball 38 times for 2 picks and under 200 yds. since then, they have had to reign him back to throwing under 20 times a game to prevent him from turning it over, and the team has suffered because of it--also jamal lewis hasn't been out yet, so i don't know what you're talking about thereb) fiedler was never "pretty damn solid" at anything but handing the ball to ricky williamsc) peyton would absolutely succeed in miami today. give him chambers, booker, and mcmichael (a truly solid combo) to throw the ball to, and a defense like they've got, and peyton's got 2 or 3 wins this year.

you're crazy. Jay Fiedler isn't a bad QB at all.

 

[waylander]

Brees' numbers are better than Aikmans for the beginning of his career.

 

[4thAndForever]

Yes, they do regret drafting Rivers.They regret not taking Roethlisbergegeiwghwoiger.

 

[cstu]

Brees isn't winning games with his playmaking. Differnce is, this year he's not losing games by throwing picks or missing open receivers. Noone will trade for him because he's an average qb and his contract is up at the end of the year. Why spend a draft pick on a guy if you can get him for nothing next year.

Jeez..isn't this guy in this 3rd year in the league??? What do you all expect of him? Most QBs take time to develop. To ust 'not lose games by throwing picks or missing open WRs' is pretty good for a 3rd year QB imo.

It's his 4th year. After having a decent 2nd year (60.8%, 17TD, 16 INT), he regressed last year (57.6%, 11TD, 15 INT). He's been a fairly accurate passer but can't throw the deep ball and made too many mistakes last year. I don't see how you can blame the Chargers for not expecting him to ever become a good NFL QB.

 

[-OZ-]

Brees isn't winning games with his playmaking. Differnce is, this year he's not losing games by throwing picks or missing open receivers. Noone will trade for him because he's an average qb and his contract is up at the end of the year. Why spend a draft pick on a guy if you can get him for nothing next year.

Jeez..isn't this guy in this 3rd year in the league??? What do you all expect of him? Most QBs take time to develop. To ust 'not lose games by throwing picks or missing open WRs' is pretty good for a 3rd year QB imo.

It's his 4th year. After having a decent 2nd year (60.8%, 17TD, 16 INT), he regressed last year (57.6%, 11TD, 15 INT). He's been a fairly accurate passer but can't throw the deep ball and made too many mistakes last year. I don't see how you can blame the Chargers for not expecting him to ever become a good NFL QB.

He regressed last year with what WRs?LT is an awesome athlete, probably one of the top 5 overall in the game right now (debateable of course) but he cannot do it on his own. Brees had no WRs to throw to, and Gates didn't really learn the game until halfway through the season (he's still learning IMO). Brees made mistakes last year because he was trying to force plays to win games while getting pressured more than most QBs, without a go-to WR (aside from LT2). Unless of course you think TIm Dwight and Eric Parker are top notch WRs. 90% of the starting QBs in the NFL would have regressed in SD last year.Drew Brees will be a solid starting QB for some team next year, I'm hoping it's Miami, if they can sign Brees and Edge (or draft a stud RB), draft some linemen, get Boston healthy - that's going to be a good team and Brees could lead it to the playoffs. (mark that as my first 2005 prediction)

 

[eriadoc]

It's his 4th year. After having a decent 2nd year (60.8%, 17TD, 16 INT), he regressed last year (57.6%, 11TD, 15 INT). He's been a fairly accurate passer but can't throw the deep ball and made too many mistakes last year. I don't see how you can blame the Chargers for not expecting him to ever become a good NFL QB.

It is Brees' 4th year, but in his rookie year, he had a grand total of 27 passing attempts. I know he should have been absorbing all that incredible QB knowledge that Flutie had, but most QBs actually have to play to see improvement.Effectively, it's Brees' 3rd year at QB. And I'd be willing to bet that Palmer doesn't post "third-year" numbers in his second year as starter (third year).