Does Matt Flynn's performance hurt Rodgers MVP Case? (1 Viewer)

[Sarnoff]

Any one who doesn't vote in Peyton Manning for MVP has no idea what "MVP" means and isn't qualified to have an opinion at all about the game of football.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I'm interested only from the psychological aspect of it. I'm simply curious to see how far a person will stretch the bounds of reality to prove something that doesn't exist (like the title of this thread). You and Breesisdaman are excellent case studies. Fascinating!

You haven't been on topic for a while.. Freedom of religion in US buddy, not everyone's god is Arron Rodgers..

 

[Carolina Hustler]

The fact that Flynn can step into the same system and produce similar/equal/better stats suggests that the system helped Rodgers produce his stats.. More importantly, it opens up for question whether or not this team could do as well, or well enough, without Rodgers, based on the system and surrounding cast, which would dictate how Valuable he was to the team (m-V-p)..

It only suggests that Flynn is a very good backup who had a great game. And value to the team is not the name of the award. Its the LEAGUE's most valuable player. It has not been defined as most valuable to the team they play on. And it has been obvious the team likely would not do as well without Rodgers as, if you go back to this time last year, they were 0-2 in games where Flynn saw significant action.

Value, at any level, is going to be based on any players irreplaceable talent.. If a player is great enough to be unmatched under similar circumstances, he's going to be more valuable. If Flynn, given the same team (system/surrounding cast) can put up better #'s, then that opens the door to question how much of Rodgers' production is assisted by the rest of the team..

Even if it isn't enough to knock Rodgers out of 1st place in the MVP race, it's certainly enough to warrant this discussion. Verified by the fact this discussion extends beyond these message boards..

So again...you want to penalize Rodgers in his MVP bid because the Packers actually have a quality backup QB.Again...ridiculous.

And the voters that have been mentioned...have pretty much scoffed at the notion that Flynn's performance would have changed their minds.

Penalize? More like Flynn's performance sheds some light on the situation..

 

[Carolina Hustler]

It only suggests that Flynn is a very good backup who had a great game.

If that was the "only" thing it suggested, this wouldn't be a topic of discussion...

Sure it would...because of a homeristic Bears fan...a few Saints fans...and some that have to be fishing to keep this thing going.

This discussion isn't limited to this thread or this forum..

 

[MaxThreshold]

I'm interested only from the psychological aspect of it. I'm simply curious to see how far a person will stretch the bounds of reality to prove something that doesn't exist (like the title of this thread). You and Breesisdaman are excellent case studies. Fascinating!

You haven't been on topic for a while.. Freedom of religion in US buddy, not everyone's god is Arron Rodgers..

But it appears he is your Devil.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I'm interested only from the psychological aspect of it. I'm simply curious to see how far a person will stretch the bounds of reality to prove something that doesn't exist (like the title of this thread). You and Breesisdaman are excellent case studies. Fascinating!

You haven't been on topic for a while.. Freedom of religion in US buddy, not everyone's god is Arron Rodgers..

But it appears he is your Devil.

Because I say he may not be the #1 QB? You might need to tone it down a bit bud..

 

[The Westin]

The fact that Flynn can step into the same system and produce similar/equal/better stats suggests that the system helped Rodgers produce his stats.. More importantly, it opens up for question whether or not this team could do as well, or well enough, without Rodgers, based on the system and surrounding cast, which would dictate how Valuable he was to the team (m-V-p)..

If Matt Flynn came in and threw 6 TD's per game for 16 games, then maybe you'd be on to something. But he did it once. Plenty of football players have had a couple great games, only to sizzle out when teams get some tape on them.As far as the Packers without Rodgers, I think they would still do well. I don't think they'd be 15-1 but they'd be fighting for a playoff spot. Flynn's a good enough QB to keep this team competitive. Just as I think Matt Flynn would be good enough to keep the Saints competitive. He's a good backup QB.

I think there's just a disconnect on what the award means. In my mind, it's judging what NFL player had the best season.

Some people like to create some alternate universe where Rodgers and Brees are injured. Then, in this alternate football world, they imagine what would happen to the Saints and Packers after the injuries. They close their eyes and determine what the imaginary outcome of the Packers season would be based on 60 minutes of football (in real life) that they've seen from Matt Flynn. Since, in real life, we haven't been able to see what Chase Daniels can do, we just assume that Drew Brees is the sole reason that the Saints are a good team and that he has no supporting cast or coaching that aid the team as well. By this very scientific method, we can then see that Matt Flynn would throw for approximately 96 TD's during the season. How can Rodgers be MVP in real life, when his backup just threw 96 TD's in my imaginary football world? It's not possible.

You're not the first person that has tried painting me as saying Rodgers is just a system QB. You then wouldn't be the first person to be wrong. I never said Rodgers was a system QB. How you draw that conclusion from "Top 3" is beyond me.. So your System QB argument is based on a straw man..

Go ahead and scroll up to the top of this post and read your quotes. It sure sounds like you're saying he's a system QB. Now, I will say this. Every good QB has a good system and a good surrounding cast. Brees, Brady, Rodgers...all of them benefit from good coaching and a good system. That doesn't make them system QB's though.

I also never said Rodgers was #3, I said he was definitely top 3, which still holds the door open to him being #1.. (straw man #2)

Umm...in your very next sentence (look below) you say Brees is a better QB. Does that not close the door on Rodgers being #1?

Bottom line is, I think it's discussion worthy topic. And I think Brees is a better QB. Maybe Rodgers has outproduced him this year earning your 'stats title', but I think Brees was the more valuable player to his team, since Flynn seems to be a more than adequate replacement for Rodgers among that surrounding cast and in that system.

Rodgers had a great year, and he definitely belongs in the MVP discussion.. And he'll probably win, not that I think he is undeserving, just that I think Brees deserves it more. Rodgers has just been the bigger story this season, he gets more press...

You have yet to answer my question. Almost everyone would agree that Aaron Rodgers had the better season. Especially if you look at the whole season and not just the last 4 games. Some will argue Brees' breaking Marino's record should play a part, although I'm not sure why Marino is being brought into the 2012 MVP conversation.Either way, what can Rodgers do to win the MVP next year. Clearly, having the best season in the NFL and one of the best seasons for a passer ever are not enough because his backup had a great game. So what must he do next year? Does Flynn's performance still count toward MVP's in the future or is there an expiration date on a single performance?

 

[sho nuff]

Any one who doesn't vote in Peyton Manning for MVP has no idea what "MVP" means and isn't qualified to have an opinion at all about the game of football.

Throwing a line in yet another thread?

 

[sho nuff]

The fact that Flynn can step into the same system and produce similar/equal/better stats suggests that the system helped Rodgers produce his stats.. More importantly, it opens up for question whether or not this team could do as well, or well enough, without Rodgers, based on the system and surrounding cast, which would dictate how Valuable he was to the team (m-V-p)..

It only suggests that Flynn is a very good backup who had a great game. And value to the team is not the name of the award. Its the LEAGUE's most valuable player. It has not been defined as most valuable to the team they play on. And it has been obvious the team likely would not do as well without Rodgers as, if you go back to this time last year, they were 0-2 in games where Flynn saw significant action.

Value, at any level, is going to be based on any players irreplaceable talent.. If a player is great enough to be unmatched under similar circumstances, he's going to be more valuable. If Flynn, given the same team (system/surrounding cast) can put up better #'s, then that opens the door to question how much of Rodgers' production is assisted by the rest of the team..

Even if it isn't enough to knock Rodgers out of 1st place in the MVP race, it's certainly enough to warrant this discussion. Verified by the fact this discussion extends beyond these message boards..

So again...you want to penalize Rodgers in his MVP bid because the Packers actually have a quality backup QB.Again...ridiculous.

And the voters that have been mentioned...have pretty much scoffed at the notion that Flynn's performance would have changed their minds.

Penalize? More like Flynn's performance sheds some light on the situation..

Sheds light that GB has a viable backup and the other teams may not?

 

[Reepicheep]

Any one who doesn't vote in Peyton Manning for MVP has no idea what "MVP" means and isn't qualified to have an opinion at all about the game of football.

Fishing score 3/10. Overused bait, conclusion too extreme.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

The fact that Flynn can step into the same system and produce similar/equal/better stats suggests that the system helped Rodgers produce his stats.. More importantly, it opens up for question whether or not this team could do as well, or well enough, without Rodgers, based on the system and surrounding cast, which would dictate how Valuable he was to the team (m-V-p)..

It only suggests that Flynn is a very good backup who had a great game. And value to the team is not the name of the award. Its the LEAGUE's most valuable player. It has not been defined as most valuable to the team they play on. And it has been obvious the team likely would not do as well without Rodgers as, if you go back to this time last year, they were 0-2 in games where Flynn saw significant action.

Value, at any level, is going to be based on any players irreplaceable talent.. If a player is great enough to be unmatched under similar circumstances, he's going to be more valuable. If Flynn, given the same team (system/surrounding cast) can put up better #'s, then that opens the door to question how much of Rodgers' production is assisted by the rest of the team..

Even if it isn't enough to knock Rodgers out of 1st place in the MVP race, it's certainly enough to warrant this discussion. Verified by the fact this discussion extends beyond these message boards..

So again...you want to penalize Rodgers in his MVP bid because the Packers actually have a quality backup QB.Again...ridiculous.

And the voters that have been mentioned...have pretty much scoffed at the notion that Flynn's performance would have changed their minds.

Penalize? More like Flynn's performance sheds some light on the situation..

Sheds light that GB has a viable backup and the other teams may not?

Looks like denial

 

[David Yudkin]

To take another side bar in a thread filled with side bars . . .

I looked up how the elite QBs fared over the past 5 seasons to see the difference in their performace outdoors vs. indoors (since some folks said it is an unfair advantage that Brees played 11 games indoors and someone like Brady only played outdoors). Regular season numbers only.

The splits were not as dramatica as I thought they would be . . .

G Comp Att Yds TD INT RatingBrady Outdoors 59 23.5 35.3 287.2 2.42 0.53 108.1Indoors 5 21.8 32.6 278.8 2 1.2 98.6 Brees Outdoors 27 27.1 40.7 296.6 1.96 1.04 93.5Indoors 52 26.9 38.8 307.1 2.37 1.02 102.2Rodgers Outdoors 50 21.7 33.4 271.1 2.14 0.64 103.5Indoors 13 21.3 31.5 283.3 1.92 0.38 111.3 Manning Outdoors 34 25.3 37.8 283.4 1.94 0.97 95.7Indoors 30 23 34.5 253.5 1.93 0.87 96.4
As far as Manning goes, some of his home games actually count as outdoor games these days, as IND now has a retractable roof.

The 4.57 TD to INT ratio in 59 outdoor games is nectar of the gods territory.

 

[Reepicheep]

Wow, Brady with only 5 indoor games in 5 years?

Edit: Never occured to me that only two AFC teams play in domes versus seven NFC teams with domes if my count is right. Strange.

AFC: Colts, Texans

NFC: Lions, Vikings, Saints, Falcons, Cowboys, Cardinals, Rams

Did I miss any?

 

[David Yudkin]

Wow, Brady with only 5 indoor games in 5 years?

He missed a year, but yes. And I believe the games were at IND, IND, NO, HOU, and DET.

 

[SWC]

matt flynn is a good player and so was steve young but just because they are good does not mean that guys like joe montana or aaron rodgers arent mvp players it just means that they happen to have really good guys that are backing them up and that fact does not somehow make other players on other teams better than they are or improve their stats or lessen what rodgers and montana did because they still did the things that they did and those of you who say otherwise are clearly smoking the ganja over your lunch breaks and then dangerously running your machines and frankly you might lose a hand or something because when you are somking the weed and making crazy posts on message boards you are probably likely to forget to lock out your machine when you have to get a part out and your hand or worse will probably get cut off in a horrible industrial accident and comp will only pay you so much so basically stop it wtih teh crazy weed posts and instead say nice things about aaron rodgers and then go and take it to the bank my man named brohan

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

matt flynn is a good player and so was steve young but just because they are good does not mean that guys like joe montana or aaron rodgers arent mvp players it just means that they happen to have really good guys that are backing them up and that fact does not somehow make other players on other teams better than they are or improve their stats or lessen what rodgers and montana did because they still did the things that they did and those of you who say otherwise are clearly smoking the ganja over your lunch breaks and then dangerously running your machines and frankly you might lose a hand or something because when you are somking the weed and making crazy posts on message boards you are probably likely to forget to lock out your machine when you have to get a part out and your hand or worse will probably get cut off in a horrible industrial accident and comp will only pay you so much so basically stop it wtih teh crazy weed posts and instead say nice things about aaron rodgers and then go and take it to the bank my man named brohan

If you can't see the correlation, then you're blind. Bill Walsh created a system and placed personnel that gave the 49er QB's a distinct advantage over the rest of the league. It wasn't because of blind luck that Bill Walsh and his system produced two of the better QB's to ever play this game. When Matt Flynn can spot start twice and produce huge numbers, it says something about the system/personnel. Anyone who doesn't even see the smallest of correlations is either Rodgers girlfriend or a Packers I've never said that Matt Flynn isn't talented, because he is talented. I've never said that the backup in New Orleans or New England can't produce huge numbers because they might. But we DO KNOW that in his only two career starts, Matt Flynn has produced huge numbers just like Rodgers.BTW, with your inability to think "outside of the box"/run-on sentence i'd guess you're the incoherent machine operator.

 

[MaxThreshold]

matt flynn is a good player and so was steve young but just because they are good does not mean that guys like joe montana or aaron rodgers arent mvp players it just means that they happen to have really good guys that are backing them up and that fact does not somehow make other players on other teams better than they are or improve their stats or lessen what rodgers and montana did because they still did the things that they did and those of you who say otherwise are clearly smoking the ganja over your lunch breaks and then dangerously running your machines and frankly you might lose a hand or something because when you are somking the weed and making crazy posts on message boards you are probably likely to forget to lock out your machine when you have to get a part out and your hand or worse will probably get cut off in a horrible industrial accident and comp will only pay you so much so basically stop it wtih teh crazy weed posts and instead say nice things about aaron rodgers and then go and take it to the bank my man named brohan

If you can't see the correlation, then you're blind. Bill Walsh created a system and placed personnel that gave the 49er QB's a distinct advantage over the rest of the league. It wasn't because of blind luck that Bill Walsh and his system produced two of the better QB's to ever play this game. When Matt Flynn can spot start twice and produce huge numbers, it says something about the system/personnel. Anyone who doesn't even see the smallest of correlations is either Rodgers girlfriend or a Packers I've never said that Matt Flynn isn't talented, because he is talented. I've never said that the backup in New Orleans or New England can't produce huge numbers because they might. But we DO KNOW that in his only two career starts, Matt Flynn has produced huge numbers just like Rodgers.

BTW, with your inability to think "outside of the box"/run-on sentence i'd guess you're the incoherent machine operator.

I've highlighted above what you're basing your ENTIRE premise on. It's a ridiculous premise to begin with and it's totally indefensible. You've proven nothing other than that you don't care for Rodgers too much. And that's fine, but minimizing his accomplishments because of how his backup played is laughable. Anyone who doesn't see that is either is either Brees' girlfriend or a Rogers hater. My guess is you're the former, not the latter. Nice try, honey.

 

[SWC]

matt flynn is a good player and so was steve young but just because they are good does not mean that guys like joe montana or aaron rodgers arent mvp players it just means that they happen to have really good guys that are backing them up and that fact does not somehow make other players on other teams better than they are or improve their stats or lessen what rodgers and montana did because they still did the things that they did and those of you who say otherwise are clearly smoking the ganja over your lunch breaks and then dangerously running your machines and frankly you might lose a hand or something because when you are somking the weed and making crazy posts on message boards you are probably likely to forget to lock out your machine when you have to get a part out and your hand or worse will probably get cut off in a horrible industrial accident and comp will only pay you so much so basically stop it wtih teh crazy weed posts and instead say nice things about aaron rodgers and then go and take it to the bank my man named brohan

If you can't see the correlation, then you're blind. Bill Walsh created a system and placed personnel that gave the 49er QB's a distinct advantage over the rest of the league. It wasn't because of blind luck that Bill Walsh and his system produced two of the better QB's to ever play this game. When Matt Flynn can spot start twice and produce huge numbers, it says something about the system/personnel. Anyone who doesn't even see the smallest of correlations is either Rodgers girlfriend or a Packers I've never said that Matt Flynn isn't talented, because he is talented. I've never said that the backup in New Orleans or New England can't produce huge numbers because they might. But we DO KNOW that in his only two career starts, Matt Flynn has produced huge numbers just like Rodgers.BTW, with your inability to think "outside of the box"/run-on sentence i'd guess you're the incoherent machine operator.

i dont know what i said that made you so mad but im sorry and hope that you can have a better rest of the day and sorry for the run on sentence i guess im not the brightest and do have my own deamons but hey its great to have some guy on a message board make fun of how i said it instead of what i said brother but frankly you are not worth getting mad about plain and simple what people dont get about what you said is that yeah matt flynn did good and some of it probalby is teh system and the weapons but the same could be true for breezes backup and it would not mean that breeze is better or worse than rodgers all is means is that the guys have good or bad backups and play in strong or weak systems the point is that neither one of the two things has to do with the price of tea in china all that matters if the numbers that the guys put up and a lot of people think that rodgers high efficiencey rate and low turnovers is more of a reason he should get the mvp than breezes record breaking and very impressive numbers and some feel differently but to try and say one is better thna the other because of how a backup played is pretty meaningless but now i guess its your turn to spout some more mean stuff so have it internet tough guy

 

[Reepicheep]

matt flynn is a good player and so was steve young but just because they are good does not mean that guys like joe montana or aaron rodgers arent mvp players it just means that they happen to have really good guys that are backing them up and that fact does not somehow make other players on other teams better than they are or improve their stats or lessen what rodgers and montana did because they still did the things that they did and those of you who say otherwise are clearly smoking the ganja over your lunch breaks and then dangerously running your machines and frankly you might lose a hand or something because when you are somking the weed and making crazy posts on message boards you are probably likely to forget to lock out your machine when you have to get a part out and your hand or worse will probably get cut off in a horrible industrial accident and comp will only pay you so much so basically stop it wtih teh crazy weed posts and instead say nice things about aaron rodgers and then go and take it to the bank my man named brohan

Post of the day, love me some SWC.

 

[pittstownkiller]

Should we bring up Flynn's 3 turnovers this season, compared to Rodgers' 6? 1/2 the turnovers in 1+ game for Flynn, compared to 15 for Rodgers, is something to really examine, especially if your going to start analyzing who runs the system better.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

matt flynn is a good player and so was steve young but just because they are good does not mean that guys like joe montana or aaron rodgers arent mvp players it just means that they happen to have really good guys that are backing them up and that fact does not somehow make other players on other teams better than they are or improve their stats or lessen what rodgers and montana did because they still did the things that they did and those of you who say otherwise are clearly smoking the ganja over your lunch breaks and then dangerously running your machines and frankly you might lose a hand or something because when you are somking the weed and making crazy posts on message boards you are probably likely to forget to lock out your machine when you have to get a part out and your hand or worse will probably get cut off in a horrible industrial accident and comp will only pay you so much so basically stop it wtih teh crazy weed posts and instead say nice things about aaron rodgers and then go and take it to the bank my man named brohan

If you can't see the correlation, then you're blind. Bill Walsh created a system and placed personnel that gave the 49er QB's a distinct advantage over the rest of the league. It wasn't because of blind luck that Bill Walsh and his system produced two of the better QB's to ever play this game. When Matt Flynn can spot start twice and produce huge numbers, it says something about the system/personnel. Anyone who doesn't even see the smallest of correlations is either Rodgers girlfriend or a Packers I've never said that Matt Flynn isn't talented, because he is talented. I've never said that the backup in New Orleans or New England can't produce huge numbers because they might. But we DO KNOW that in his only two career starts, Matt Flynn has produced huge numbers just like Rodgers.

BTW, with your inability to think "outside of the box"/run-on sentence i'd guess you're the incoherent machine operator.

I've highlighted above what you're basing your ENTIRE premise on. It's a ridiculous premise to begin with and it's totally indefensible. You've proven nothing other than that you don't care for Rodgers too much. And that's fine, but minimizing his accomplishments because of how his backup played is laughable. Anyone who doesn't see that is either is either Brees' girlfriend or a Rogers hater. My guess is you're the former, not the latter. Nice try, honey.

When did I say this?I think Rodgers is a great QB, one of the best in the NFL.

BTW, everyone knows Drew Brees is married.

 

[MaxThreshold]

matt flynn is a good player and so was steve young but just because they are good does not mean that guys like joe montana or aaron rodgers arent mvp players it just means that they happen to have really good guys that are backing them up and that fact does not somehow make other players on other teams better than they are or improve their stats or lessen what rodgers and montana did because they still did the things that they did and those of you who say otherwise are clearly smoking the ganja over your lunch breaks and then dangerously running your machines and frankly you might lose a hand or something because when you are somking the weed and making crazy posts on message boards you are probably likely to forget to lock out your machine when you have to get a part out and your hand or worse will probably get cut off in a horrible industrial accident and comp will only pay you so much so basically stop it wtih teh crazy weed posts and instead say nice things about aaron rodgers and then go and take it to the bank my man named brohan

If you can't see the correlation, then you're blind. Bill Walsh created a system and placed personnel that gave the 49er QB's a distinct advantage over the rest of the league. It wasn't because of blind luck that Bill Walsh and his system produced two of the better QB's to ever play this game. When Matt Flynn can spot start twice and produce huge numbers, it says something about the system/personnel. Anyone who doesn't even see the smallest of correlations is either Rodgers girlfriend or a Packers I've never said that Matt Flynn isn't talented, because he is talented. I've never said that the backup in New Orleans or New England can't produce huge numbers because they might. But we DO KNOW that in his only two career starts, Matt Flynn has produced huge numbers just like Rodgers.

BTW, with your inability to think "outside of the box"/run-on sentence i'd guess you're the incoherent machine operator.

I've highlighted above what you're basing your ENTIRE premise on. It's a ridiculous premise to begin with and it's totally indefensible. You've proven nothing other than that you don't care for Rodgers too much. And that's fine, but minimizing his accomplishments because of how his backup played is laughable. Anyone who doesn't see that is either is either Brees' girlfriend or a Rogers hater. My guess is you're the former, not the latter. Nice try, honey.

When did I say this?I think Rodgers is a great QB, one of the best in the NFL.

BTW, everyone knows Drew Brees is married.

So...wait...are you saying you're his mistress?