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[DYNASTY] 2009 Top 12 Rookie Rankings (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter EBF
- Start date
offdee
Footballguy
Even though LeSean McCoy didn't have a spectacular bowl game yesterday I still saw enough to keep him fully entrenched as my #1RB (#2 overall behind Crabtree).
He's not as good a weapon in the receiving game, but his running style is on par with the shiftiness and vision of Brian Westbrook.
He's not as good a weapon in the receiving game, but his running style is on par with the shiftiness and vision of Brian Westbrook.
JoeSteeler
Footballguy
:sehorn:
-OZ-
Footballguy
Really? I was in and out, but when I did see him I wasn't impressed with his performance. He's still among my top 5 picks, but I don't think I'd draft him #1 or 2 right now (although, as I currently own a #4, he could be on my team anyway)
HawkeyeChief
Footballguy
Greene only played the first 3 quarters...as it was 31-0
offdee
Footballguy
As I said, he didn't have a great bowl game but he had absolutely nowhere to run all day....it was very windy and hard for the QB's to throw so defenses were keying on the RB's all day. It was a pretty ugly game overall for EVERY player.There were a couple of runs from McCoy that were impressive and confirmed what I've seen from him from other games earlier in the year. Guy can stop on a dime and has tremendous cutback ability which will translate nicely at the next level IMO.
offdee
Footballguy
This was my first time watching Greene and came away higher on him than I was going in. He'll never wow you with exciting plays at the next level but he's a good between the tackles runner who runs with good pad level and is well built. Not overly fast or great receiving ability, but does have decent vision and a nose for the endzone.Poor man's Michael Turner.
weasel3515
Footballguy
Think Greene has one of the best bowl performances of the season outside QBs. He hardly played the 4th quarter agaisnt what was supposed to be a good defense and still ravaged them for over 120 yds and 3 TDs. What anyone should have noticed is his low-center of gravity, burst into the hole, and always falling forward; qualities to make him a good scoring-NFL back. McCoy, Moreno and Ringer all looked below average compared to Greene and I've watched them all.
Chachi
Footballguy
I agree with every comment you just said with the exception of Moreno looking average yesterday, if anything Moreno helped his already high draft status. I'm right there with you in your admiration of Shonn Greene, I would have to say I am more impressed with him than any RB who played college ball this year and with the Big10 network in my lineup I have seen many of his games and all his highlights. He is going to be a good pro, I scratch my head when I've heard many other people say he doesn't have the "wow" factor, I obviously don't know what that means because just about every game I have watched him play I actually hear myself saying "wow" out loud.
Birdie048
Footballguy
I watched most of the Iowa vs South Carolina game. Greene's game stats don't due him justice. He ran hard thru several hard hitting Gamecock tacklers and almost always fell forward for positive yardage. He pushed thru small cracks for gains when there was little there and made several nice cuts for bigger gains. He may not have the elite speed / 5th gear, but he certainly was impressive. I don't see him as a poor man's Micheal Turner, but more of an Eddie George/Larry Czonka type RB - bruiser who makes you pay when you try to tackle him head on!weasel3515 said:
broncofan13000
Footballguy
Hakeem Nicks is another midlevel WR who could be a sleeper pick in fantasy drafts.
agree. His performance in the bowl game was the best I have seen this bowl season to date
broncofan13000
Footballguy
He was a monster that game,
JAA
Footballguy
gawd i hate sPitt, but Shady is the real deal. Hes a 20+ carry NFL ready RB. Browns make a lot of sense to me.
JAA
Footballguy
He was a monster that game,
EBF
Footballguy
Draft Party final uploaded some Jarett Dillard highlights:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRCxlUG1vts...re=channel_page
Keep an eye on Spiderman. He could be one of the hidden gems of this class.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRCxlUG1vts...re=channel_page
Keep an eye on Spiderman. He could be one of the hidden gems of this class.
madd futher
Footballguy
Filed in my "What I learned about evaluating rookies last year file": It is much more of a crapshoot than anyone here or any scouting organization will admit.Let's see: Last year didn't the 1st tier consist of McFadden, Mendenhall, Stewart, and (for some) Felix Jones and Ray Rice?Luckily I saw enough to believe in Chris Johnson and put him in that in that "1st tier" (despite his lack of ideal size) and my fellow owners chided me because I drafted him way too early (5th round - before FatWhale White). But I (like most) completely missed on Matt Forte and Steve Slaton.I agree that the guys you named are all "1st tier" - for right now. My question is....Is there really any such a breakpoint that can be accurately defined as "where the drop off is?
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MAC_32
Footballguy
Depends who goes where. Honestly, when all is said and done, there may not be much of a tier drop off until round 2.If Crabtree does not go to Oakland he is hands down my PPR #1, but unless someone goes to a situation like Forte this year there may not be much of a difference between #2 and #15. Some have more upside than others (Beanie, Harvin, Maclin, etc.) but they also carry risk, enough that there may not be much difference between them and safer options (Moreno, Greene, Donald Brown - I believe).
A
awesomeness
Guest
What about last year where the consensus first tier was ADP, Calvin Johnson, and Marshawn Lynch. Looks like all those guys have turned out pretty good.It's only been one year, it's still very early to make conclusions about 2008 prospects at this point. And there's still time for some of the 2007 prospects to prove they aren't a bust.
EBF
Footballguy
Sometimes it works this way and other times it works like the Adrian Peterson class, where ADP/Calvin/Lynch have justified their post-draft status as the clear cut first tier. There are always going to be some second tier guys who emerge. That doesn't mean there isn't a difference between someone like McCoy and someone like Ringer. As for Chris Johnson, I think the fact that he wasn't a familiar name and the fact that he has an atypical game caused a lot of people (like myself) to overlook the obvious upside of a back picked in the first round by a team with a glaring need at RB. Opportunity + talent = production.
EBF
Footballguy
I've had Brown on my college dynasty team since his freshman season, but I really haven't taken the time to sit down and watch his games. What I know is that he's been massively productive since his first season (but especially this year). He doesn't really jump off the screen like a Peterson or Bush type of talent, but he seems to have good instincts, quick feet, and adequate athleticism. He's not built like Matt Forte, but their overall profile is somewhat similar.I say keep an eye on his combine results and see where he lands on draft day. For now I consider him a 2nd-3rd tier guy.
EBF
Footballguy
I think it's going to be kind of an arbitrary distinction this year. The depth is good and there are a lot of guys with legit potential, but there's a shortage of no-brainer can't-miss locks. That said, there are probably only a handful of players who have a chance to be picked in the first round of the NFL draft:Sam BradfordMatt StaffordChris WellsKnowshon MorenoLeSean McCoyShonn GreeneCJ SpillerMichael CrabtreePercy HarvinJeremy MaclinDarrius Heyward-BeyKenny BrittHakeem NicksJarett DillardBrandon PettigrewJermaine GreshamYou can chop this group up into tiers however you'd like.
My home league has done the draft where we draft just the 1st round before the NFL draft since 2001 now. Always been beneficial to have a top pick. 16 team league with start 2 QB chance, so will be QB heavy1.1 Vick, W. Green, Leftwich, E. Manning, R. Brown, R. Bush, A. Peterson, D. McFadden1.2 McAllister, Carr, C.Palmer, S. Jackson, C. Benson, L. White, C. Johnson, J. Stewart1.3 Tomlinson, Harrington, C. Rogers, L. Fitzgerald, C. Williams, D. Williams, Lynch, Mendenhall1.4 D. Terrell, Duckett, L. Johnson, K. Jones, B. Edwards, L. Maroney, B. Quinn, F. Jones1.5 K. Robinson, D. Stallworth, A. Johnson, R. Williams, M. Williams, Leinart, J. Russell, Rice1.6 R. Gardner, D. Foster, W. McGahee, C. Perry, T. Williamson, V. Young, M. Bush, M. Ryan1.7 M. Bennett, J. Walker, K. Boller, Big Ben, Mar. Clayton, V. Davis, Meachum, D. Thomas1.8 L. Jordan, J. Shockey, O. Smith, K. Winslow, A. Smith, J. Cutler, D. Bowe, L. Sweed1.9 D. Brees, J. Peppers, M. Smith, G. Jones, A. Rodgers, J. Addai, L. Booker, K. Smith1.10 K. Barlow, C. Portis, L. Suggs, P. Rivers, JJ Arrington, Chad Jackson, Ginn, Henne1.11 Ch Johnson, Lelie, C. Simms, Ju. Jones, C. Fason, S. Holmes, A. Gonzalez, Brohm1.12 A. Thomas, A. Bryant, Grossman, M. Williams, A. McPherson, D. Williams, A. Pittman, J. Hardy1.13 S. Moss, Gaffeny, Fargas, Reg Wiliams, Gore, AJ Hawk, Olsen, M. Kelly1.14 T. Henry, P. Ramsey, K. Washington, L. Evans, M. Barber, M Drew-Jones, Jarrett, Forte1.15 F. Mitchell, D. Graham. C. Brown, R. Woods, M. Jones, S. Moss, C. Davis, J. Charles1.16 Q. Morgan, J. Reed, T. Suggs, Mic. Clayton, J. Campbell, L. Pope, K. Irons, J. FlaccoSo now with our 2nd round on starting in mid August you would think the top of the 2nd would be gem after gem2.1 J. Jackson. J. Wells, A. Pinner, T. Bell, E. Shelton, B. Jackson, C. Johnson2.2 M. Minnis, D. Bates, Bry. Johnson, Losman, Jacobs, C. Henry, D, Keller2.3 R. Wayne, C. Taylor, T. Calico, M. Jenkins, R. Moats, S. Smith, D. AveryI think last year is pretty much the exception in most cases. That is why I find these threads so valuable.
Cookiemonster
Footballguy
See, this drives me nuts though. I can get a very good feel for what a RB brings to the table by watching highlight clips from TV footage, but how do you evaluate a WR? You don't get to see any of his routes. The camera always zooms in on the line & QB 'till he throws. Then you get to see the catch made, & RAC, but we don't know how he got open. You can't see the coverage, his route, downfield contact or even his speed & agility unless he has an opportunity to get some RAC.In person, I can watch a high school team warm up and tell you who the most dangerous WR on the field is. I can't evaluate TV at all when it comes to WR or QB. I really wish there was an altenative to how they broadcast the game, like an occasional "all 22" view, and an occasional end zone view. HOW DO THE REST OF YOU EVALUATE A WR??? Why are you (EBF) so high on guys that we don't get to see much of, like Dillard? I trust your opinion of him, but not as gospel since we all make mistakes. Do you get to watch Rice live a lot? Is he just the best WR on his team by a big margin so gets a lot of targets?EBF said:
offdee
Footballguy
Chachi
Footballguy
Donald Brown is now a borderline tier 1/2 guy, he will likely go in round 2 in the NFL draft but be a top 4-8 pick in rookie drafts, he's right there with Greene. He will lift more than any other RB in the combine and post around a 4.45 40, he will impress, I really hope he remains underrated at FBG cause he ain't anywhere else because my leaguemates copy the rankings to a freaking T. Please don't get high on him FBG, please act as if he's a tier 3 guy who is worthy of a mid 2nd round rookie pick, pretty please!
broncofan13000
Footballguy
I doubt brown drops to the mid 2nd of any rookie draft and the combine is only going to help his draft stock.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Little tidbit on Brown and S Greene. It's from back in Oct, so it isn't new, but some of you might not have read it.Scott Wright's Draft Countdown
When it comes to running backs in the NFL Draft underclassmen are the lifeblood. The '08 Draft provided a perfect example as 8 of the first 10 running backs selected were juniors. However, that mass exodus left this year's senior class extremely thin and it doesn't look like there will be one selected in the first round. That just opens the door for more youngsters though. Everyone knows about Beanie Wells, Knowshon Moreno, LeSean McCoy and C.J. Spiller but there are couple of other underclassmen shooting up draft boards who might have a decision to make in January.
Iowa's Shonn Greene is an extremely impressive physical specimen at 5-11 and 235 pounds and while he doesn't have great speed (4.60?) it is adequate for a guy his size. In just 8 games this season Greene has already gone over 1,000 yards and is averaging 6.5 yards per carry to go along with 10 touchdowns. Greene actually sat out the 2007 season while he attended a community college to get his grades in order and also attended a prep school for a year before joining the Hawkeyes so he's a bit older than the normal redshirt junior. It will be interesting to see whether Greene's age (24-years-old next fall) and the outstanding season he is having will push him toward leaving early for the pros.
Connecticut's Donald Brown hasn't take quite as interesting of a path to success as Greene but the on-field results have been every bit as impressive. After redshirting in 2005 Brown stood out in a part-time role early in his college career, rushing for more than 800 yards in '06 and '07, but to say he has taken things to the next level in 2008 would be an understatement. In fact, Brown is actually leading the nation in rushing through 7 games with 1,174 yards (5.7 avg.) and has also reached the endzone 12 times. At 5-10 and 210 lbs. Brown has decent size and can run inside but even though his timed speed (4.50) is merely average he has also shown the ability to get outside and turn the corner.
There is no question that, as usual, underclassmen running backs are going to play a huge role in the 2009 NFL Draft. Greene and Brown might not be household names yet but they have both probably moved into the third round area should they choose to come out early and Day One is very real a possibility.
Rodeojones
Footballguy
.
RUSF18
Footballguy
I also strongly, strongly disagree with the original assessment of Britt not being fast or explosive. Yes, he's not like his teammate Tim Brown who has crazy straight line speed, but he has pulled away from defenders or burned them on routes plenty of times. He just has the big body and long legs that make him not look as fast, but he covers a ton of ground with each stride.
Chachi
Footballguy
If everyone declares here's my list
1. Knowshon Moreno
2. Michael Crabtree
3. Chris Wells
4. Shonn Greene
5. Donald Brown
6. LeSean McCoy
7. Jeremy Maclin
8. CJ Spiller
9. Kenny Britt
10. Percy Harvin
11. Hakeem Nicks
12. DeMarco Murray
13. Mark Sanchez
14. Sam Bradford
15. Matt Stafford
16. Javon Ringer
17. Jermaine Gresham
18. Jeremiah Johnson
19. DHB
20. Chase Coffman
21. Mohammed Massaquoi
22. Rashard Jennings
23. Devin Moore
24. Brandon LeFall
25. Juaquin Iglesis
26. Brandon Pettigrew
27. Brian Robiskie
28. Ramses Barden
29. Jared Cook
30. PJ Hill
Insert James Davis because I forgot about him at 16 above Ringer and drop everyone 1 spot.
1. Knowshon Moreno
2. Michael Crabtree
3. Chris Wells
4. Shonn Greene
5. Donald Brown
6. LeSean McCoy
7. Jeremy Maclin
8. CJ Spiller
9. Kenny Britt
10. Percy Harvin
11. Hakeem Nicks
12. DeMarco Murray
13. Mark Sanchez
14. Sam Bradford
15. Matt Stafford
16. Javon Ringer
17. Jermaine Gresham
18. Jeremiah Johnson
19. DHB
20. Chase Coffman
21. Mohammed Massaquoi
22. Rashard Jennings
23. Devin Moore
24. Brandon LeFall
25. Juaquin Iglesis
26. Brandon Pettigrew
27. Brian Robiskie
28. Ramses Barden
29. Jared Cook
30. PJ Hill
Insert James Davis because I forgot about him at 16 above Ringer and drop everyone 1 spot.
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
No Dillard?
coolnerd
Footballguy
I have not sen Dillard in anyone's top 100 i.e. 3rd rounds. does not mean he won't, but just not seeing anyone outside of FBGs who thinks his game is going to translate.
broncofan13000
Footballguy
i'm not a huge DHB fan, but i think he should be 5-7 spots higher.
Chachi
Footballguy
The guys I posted from 20-30 could have had Dillard in it, that's how close I consider all of those guys at this point. It's not really a knock on Dillard, I'm not as high as him as others on this board, I have him tiered with Brian Robiskie/LaFell/Barden.
As for DHB I am not sold, to me actually being productive in college is important, I don't think DHB/Troy Williamson are the same guys besides running real fast but I can't get that thought out of my mind. I would take a shot at him where I put him though as others have a really favorable opinion of him, I just don't see him ending up on any of my teams since I have him at 19 and everyone else has him between 6-10
As for DHB I am not sold, to me actually being productive in college is important, I don't think DHB/Troy Williamson are the same guys besides running real fast but I can't get that thought out of my mind. I would take a shot at him where I put him though as others have a really favorable opinion of him, I just don't see him ending up on any of my teams since I have him at 19 and everyone else has him between 6-10
-OZ-
Footballguy
I think Sanchez could be good, but I'd love to hear why he's above the big 2. He's my #3b right now with Davis, coaching / team will make a difference IMO on those 2.
Chachi
Footballguy
I just think he's the best leader of the three, I have them close enough as to where it's not as if I dislike the other guys. Out of the three players I think Stafford has the most upside and the most risk, I would have no problem taking him over the other two. With Bradford I have never seen him have to elude any pressure, if he's picked high I doubt he'll have a stellar line so I think there is some risk there, I really can't think of a knock on Sanchez.-OZ- said:Chachi said:I think Sanchez could be good, but I'd love to hear why he's above the big 2. He's my #3b right now with Davis, coaching / team will make a difference IMO on those 2.
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
Fair enough, thanks.coolnerd said:
broncofan13000
Footballguy
I have to agree, right now Dillard doesn't make my top 5 WR'sCrabtreeMaclinDHBHarvinNickseta. forgot about Britt, who i actually like about the same as Harvin right now...coolnerd said:
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coolnerd
Footballguy
Lance Z who has blogs for the houstonchronicle and does have some connection in scouting and the NFL made these notes on the rice offensive playershttp://blogs.chron.com/fantasyfootball/college_football/
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
Thanks coolnerd.
Do you think any of these 2nd tier WRs can one day be #1 guys? Brandon LaFell*, Mohammed Massaquoi, Derrick Williams, and Brandon Gibson
Marshwan Gilyard* is a better NFL prospect than Eddie Royal IMO... agreed?
Also, where do you figure Senior WRs Louis Murphy, Brian Robiskie, and Ramses Barden will fit into NFL offenses? My thinking is that Murphy would have the most upside, but he comes from a long line of Florida WRs who do not have that elite competitiveness/toughness. Robiskie would seem to be on the other end of the spectrum with an attitude and matching skills to become a solid possesion type. I haven't seen alot of Barden, but with his size and speed, it's impossible to overlook him as a potential Vincent Jackson clone, at least.
TEs Travis Beckum and Chase Coffman could be NFL starters very soon. Beckum's potential as a receiver rivals Dustin Keller IMO, while Coffman appears to be a more possesion guy. Thoughts?
Marshwan Gilyard* is a better NFL prospect than Eddie Royal IMO... agreed?
Also, where do you figure Senior WRs Louis Murphy, Brian Robiskie, and Ramses Barden will fit into NFL offenses? My thinking is that Murphy would have the most upside, but he comes from a long line of Florida WRs who do not have that elite competitiveness/toughness. Robiskie would seem to be on the other end of the spectrum with an attitude and matching skills to become a solid possesion type. I haven't seen alot of Barden, but with his size and speed, it's impossible to overlook him as a potential Vincent Jackson clone, at least.
TEs Travis Beckum and Chase Coffman could be NFL starters very soon. Beckum's potential as a receiver rivals Dustin Keller IMO, while Coffman appears to be a more possesion guy. Thoughts?
anakin
Footballguy
I thought Coffman looked a lot like Heath Miller..big. strong productive, but not an elite receiver type. Maclin looks a lot more like Eddie Royal than Gilyard does. I'm more interested in TE/H-Back James Casey. He looked a lot like Keller.
