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I like that comparison. Harvin is not quite the prospect coming out of college that Reggie was but Reggie was an extremely special prospect coming out. If Harvin can stay healthy in the NFL then he could accomplish more than Reggie on the NFL level.The next Reggie Bush?
Right now, I'd compare him to Johnnie Lee Higgins......supreme big-play threat with plenty of room, as well as potential, for growth as a WR.In the long run, I'd compare him to a bigger DeSean Jackson as I believe he will quickly improve his route-running as D-Jax has and become his team's #1 WR option, which is what I don't believe Higgins will ever achieve yet DeSean already has, IMO, and Maclin will be someday.....
Ginn didn't prove much at all as a WR in college, he ran almost exclusively deep posts, flys, and screens. He was just that much faster than college talent.Just because someone is a top 10 pick doesn't mean they're a top 10 talent, see (as mentioned previously) Troy Williamson. It's been widely speculated no one outside of the Miami front office that season had Ginn even close to the top 10. There's a reason for that. He's not.
Not true in the least. It was true until Ginns final season of college which I can only assume you didn't watch then... It was widely accepted that Ginn was a top 15 pick everywhere outside of this message board.
Interesting rankings. I'll try my hand at the top 16, IMO...1 Knowshon Moreno2 LeSean McCoy3 Michael Crabtree4 Beanie Wells5 Jeremy Maclin6 Matt Stafford7 Darrius Heyward-Bey8 Shonn Greene9 Percy Harvin10 Sam Bradford11 Marc Sanchez 12 Kenny Britt13 Donald Brown14 CJ Spiller15 Hakeem Nicks 16 Jermaine GreshamPre offseason top 12 PPR rankings1 Michael Crabtree2 Shady McCoy3 Percy Harvin4 Jeremy Maclin5 Sam Bradford6 CJ Spiller7 Shonn Greene8 Donald Brown9 Knowshon Moreno10 Beanie Wells11 Kenny Britt12 Hakeem NicksThe year of the WR.
Browns depends on Braylon and KW2. You can add the Titans, but they'll never draft a WR in the 1st anyway. Teams I suspect may draft a WR early:GiantsBearsJaguars49ersSeahawks
I like him. He has very good speed, he's a pretty fluid runner, and he shows some solid natural WR skills. I have him ranked as a top 3 WR in this class and I think he's a justifiable gamble almost anywhere in the first round of a PPR rookie draft. I would compare him to Chad Johnson in terms of skill set, body type, and playing style.-OZ- said:
Take this with a grain of salt because I don't watch college football at all (I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here) but isn't this the exact same thing people were saying about Matt Forte at this time last year? Again I'm not comparing Forte directly to Brown but I'm just saying that people were saying that he did everything OK and nothing great. Now Forte could flame out next year (like Anthony Thomas) but I'm just throwing this out there to generate more discussion on Brown and the other second tier RBs.Edited to add...Situation & opportunity (along with talent) also play a big part in rookie RB production. If Brown ends up as the clear cut starter for whoever drafts him then I think his value jumps like Fotre's did right after the draft.
I live in the middle of Buckeye country, I get every single one of their games crammed down my throat, that year was no exception. The vast majority around here did not think he was a 1st round pick. I visit other boards and read similar opinions there. Some scouting agencies thought he was a 1st round pick, others did not. Only Miami thought he was a top 10 talent, at least that's what I've been led to believe.jurb26 said:
Good one.
Well, I don't want to turn this thread into a Ginn thread. This topic has been covered enough in other threads. We can agree to disagree.
Looking back through google for a few minutes I could not find a single mock draft that had Ginn going in the top 10.I found several that had him not in the 1st round at all.
You mean to tell me that the guy that did that mock draft got every single pick correct?HINT: you were looking at the left column, which is draft results. The mock draft is in the right column, where Ginn went 19th.
You're right. I guess that really tells you how much time I spent looking for these. So within a matter of 30 seconds I found 2 in which was my first search in which he was not outside the top 20 and yet you struggled to find many where he was even in the 1st round... Like I said, Ginn was a guy that was projected to be around the 1st half of the 1st round. Again, there are several threads covering Ginn so I'll leave it at this.
I think you misread my post. I said I couldn't find any where he went in the top 10, and that several also had him out of the 1st round entirely.You're right. I guess that really tells you how much time I spent looking for these. So within a matter of 30 seconds I found 2 in which was my first search in which he was not outside the top 20 and yet you struggled to find many where he was even in the 1st round... Like I said, Ginn was a guy that was projected to be around the 1st half of the 1st round. Again, there are several threads covering Ginn so I'll leave it at this.
what dont you get about moreno? led the SEC in rushing and has excellent pass catchin skills. I have 1.02 & .03 in adraft. praying that wells goes #1 and I can get Moreno and Crabtree
Good question. Just watching highlights, I didn't see anything jump out at me. I didn't see "it". McCoy gets me excited. Moreno must have talent to lead the SEC in rushing. Maybe that makes him a very safe pick. He'll probably be a very solid player. I just didn't sense that he is going to be elite - not that should be held against him. I'll definitely watch him more, though I sense there is very little chance that he'll slide to 1.03 unless he lands in a bad situation. I think he'll be 1.01.
I usually try to compare prospects to players with a similar body type and playing style. I agree that Forte isn't a good comparison for Wells. Bradford's dominance in a major conference, accuracy, height, and lack of mobility remind me of Manning. His throwing motion is quite a bit different though.
My attitude towards Wells is that I think he has a chance to be a good player, but I'm going to let someone else take that gamble.
I like those three. They're probably my top three backs in some order. Moreno has good quicks, instincts, and toughness. He runs low with good hip swivel. About the only thing that worries me is his lack of speed. He won't be a big play threat in the NFL.
Not a chance, IMO. He's purely a WR for NFL purposes.
Harvin is a lot more like Reggie than he is like Chris Johnson IMO. Chris Johnson is unique because he runs well up the middle for his size (can often break through a lineman's first hit), and when he gets past the line he's so dangerous. Harvin is strong but he's light and goes down easy on contact. I don't see the ability to run through the small creases in interior lines in the NFL, except for an occasional draw play. But he's a very shifty runner with good vision and runs more like a RB than a WR when he gets past the line and he functions very well in space. So he does have RB skills except he can't move a pile at all. If they move him around, give him the ball on pitches, they can take advantage of his real skills. So while he LOOKS physically more like CJ3, he PLAYS more like Reggie Bush from what I've seen. I see him as a very talented tweener who could be a stud if used correctly.EBF said:
What worries me about Wells is that he will turn into the current Larry Johnson very quickly. Yes, he may have a couple great years of 1500+ yds rushing and double digit TDs, but his lack of abilities in the passing game, both catching and in protection, will make him a two down back early, and make him worthless once he loses speed.EBF said:
The bigger worry is that he appears to not have the ability (unlike Portis or Westbrook) to play through injuries. i just don't see him as a 'gamer'.
I made the same comments about Wells in the other thread. There is definitely doubts about his ability to play with pain, but again, my biggest worry is his lack of ability in the passing game, both protection and catching, which will likely make him a two down back.
It's funny you say this because they were talking about him on PTI today and Kornheiser kept referring to him as a RB. Is this just Kornheiser being his usual idiot self, or is he likely to be viewed as and/or drafted as a RB by the NFL community? If he ends up being dubbed a RB, that will obviously put a major dent in his fantasy value, so let's hope he is considered a WR. If he is a WR, and assumes a Bush-like role in the offense he winds up in, where he gets 15 or so touches per game, he could be fantasy gold.
I don't see him playing more than a handful of snaps at RB in the NFL.
Maybe I'm missing your point, but it seems you're saying a WR who produces the same as a RB is worth more. You may be right, but it seems contrarian.
Let me put it this way: would Reggie Bush (or any RB for that matter) have more fantasy value as a RB or a WR, assuming his role remains the same? In my league this season, the top WR (Fitz) fell between the #12 RB (LT) and the #13 RB (Lynch). Let's say Reggie had not been injured this season, and finished as RB10 (not unrealistic)... He would have been the top scoring WR, assuming he was WR eligible, which of course he is not.So, if Harvin is a Bush-clone (which it sounds like he's not), he loses a ton of value if he is only eligible for fantasy purposes as a RB. If on the other hand he is a WR for fantasy purposes, but plays a Bush-like role in his offense, he's extremely valuable. How many WR's get 15+ touches per game?
I can't say for sure, but I'd venture to guess that almost every scout sees him as a pure WR.Look around the NFL. Most of these slash type guys like Hines Ward, Anquan Boldin, Antwaan Randle El, and Brad Smith settle into one position and concentrate on that position.A creative team might use Harvin on 2-3 running plays per game, but he's a WR.
Kornheiser doesn't know much about football and knows next to nothing about correlating a player's skill set into an NFL position and what kind of success that player might have.
That's key for me. If he's a pure WR, I probably won't draft him. But if there's a chance he's used like Bush, I think he's a steal between picks 6 and 8.
Good list
I think Nicks and Britt should be added to the 3rd group (especially in ppr). I would take both over the QB's. (Also i see Wells in the first tier, but i can understand why people are hesitant with him)
I think there's very little separation in the top 6-8 picks this year. The guys in your second tier all have the potential to put up first tier numbers.
Ehhh..I'd put them in the next tier but they could round out the first round. I think they are at the point where you really should be taking one of the QBs, assuming they go in the top 20 picks, before Nicks or Britt.
First round QBs take years to develop and bust more often than most positions. Even when they pan out, they generally don't have much trade value unless you happen to get the once-a-decade Peyton Manning type of player. In PPR, I'm not sure I'd use a first round pick on any of the QBs in this group. The WR depth is too good to justify it.
