[Dynasty] 2014 Draft Prospects (1 Viewer)

[Brewtown]

I never understood nerd humor...

 

[Brewtown]

Not sure if this is correct, but it looks as if Sankey had a 6.75 3-cone (best time for a RB at combine) as well as the best S. shuttle....

Just more kudos on the Bishop Sankey pile.....

I liked Giovani Bernard last year. This guy beat all of Bernard's numbers yesterday. Definitely would want him to go somewhere where he can catch out of the backfield.

I'd like to see a side by side of Gio's combine numbers vs Sankey's...

Can anyone get that for us?

 

[ShaHBucks]

My Pre-Combine RB top 10

1- Jeremy Hill

2- Bishop Sankey

3- Ka'Deem Carey

4- Tre Mason

5- Carlos Hyde

6- Lache Seatrunk

7- Devonta Freeman

8- Isaiah Crowell

9- Charles Sims

10- Andre Williams

Post-Combine

1- Bishop Sankey

2- Tre Mason

3- Jeremy Hill

4- Lache Seastrunk

5- Carlos Hyde

6- Charles Simms

7- Andre Williams

8- Devonta Freeman

9- Isaiah Crowell

10- Storm Johnson

I have a hard time fitting Carey in my top 10. I just couldn't do it after this horrendous performance...

Tell me why you liked Carey so much before the combine.

I thought in looking at his film he had some great moves with the ball in his hand, had a nose for the end zone, big conference production, and he looked pretty quick and reasonably fast with the ball in his hands. I guess those things are still true - you can't take that away and can't forget it....

However, in watching that combine yesterday he looked so out of sorts and a little out of shape.... It just made it very hard for me to put him in my top 10... That could change, but 24 hours after the combine I just could not stomach putting him in the top 10.

BOTTOMLINE - I thought for sure he would run in the 4.5-4.6 range. A guy his size needs some element of speed to his game IMO. A 4.7 just ain't gonna didn't cut it...

No exclamation points?

That key was confiscated.

What a sad day. R.I.P Brewtown's Shift key

 

[MAC_32]

Nothing much worse post combine than the over reaction from the media.

 

[cloppbeast]

Nothing much worse post combine than the over reaction from the media.

Like lowering a player for a poor 40 after the combine who has already been lowered for lack of speed before the combine?

As an example, some people are saying Allen Robinson hurt himself - which is ridiculous in my opinion. Who expected a 4.4 out of him?

Or, how did the combine help Brandin Cooks? Everybody should have known he was fast and quick already.

 

[jurb26]

Nothing much worse post combine than the over reaction from the media.

Like lowering a player for a poor 40 after the combine who has already been lowered for lack of speed before the combine?

As an example, some people are saying Allen Robinson hurt himself - which is ridiculous in my opinion. Who expected a 4.4 out of him?

The 40 is overrated but speed is relative. It matters at least a bit because the competition in college isn't the same as the competition in the NFL. A lot of guys who could get by with 4.6 speed in college won't get by with it in the NFL. Some still will but it's an even measure to provide a baseline and confirm on field observations. I'd say a 4.6 is concerning for a WR. It's not a death bell but certainly reason to reexamine.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

I never understood nerd humor...

your not a nerd brewtown nerds are smart

 

[MAC_32]

Nothing much worse post combine than the over reaction from the media.

Like lowering a player for a poor 40 after the combine who has already been lowered for lack of speed before the combine?

As an example, some people are saying Allen Robinson hurt himself - which is ridiculous in my opinion. Who expected a 4.4 out of him?

Or, how did the combine help Brandin Cooks? Everybody should have known he was fast and quick already.

boom shaka laka

 

[cloppbeast]

The 40 is overrated but speed is relative. It matters at least a bit because the competition in college isn't the same as the competition in the NFL. A lot of guys who could get by with 4.6 speed in college won't get by with it in the NFL. Some still will but it's an even measure to provide a baseline and confirm on field observations. I'd say a 4.6 is concerning for a WR. It's not a death bell but certainly reason to reexamine.

It all depends on how a player succeeded in college. For a deep threat who ran past defenders, a 4.6 would concern me. For a guy like Robinson, who gets open with good routes, it doesn't concern me.

 

[Rhythmdoctor]

Draft Risers And Sliders: RB, WR And TE

Tony Pauline

DRAFT STOCK SLIDING

1. RB Tre Mason, Auburn: Mason hoped to state his case as the draft's top running back, but he'll have to wait another day. He timed a disappointing 4.5 seconds in the 40-yard dash, looked slow footed in ball-carrying drills and did too much body catching during passing drills.

Pauline usually knows what he's talking about, but he's way off the mark with that one.

Mason had an excellent combine. He came in at a solid height/weight. 207 pounds isn't a huge back, but on a 5'8.125" frame, it's above average bulk. 4.50 is a perfectly fine time for a stocky RB. It's not elite speed, but it's not slow at all. Mason was very good in the jumps. 38.5" is an excellent vertical for anyone and 10'5" in the broad jump is a rare mark for someone who's only 5'8".

He really solidified his draft stock and seems like a good bet to be a top 45-50 overall pick.

I agree 100%. Not sure what Pauline was basing his comments on, seems way off.

 

[tdmills]

The 40 is overrated but speed is relative. It matters at least a bit because the competition in college isn't the same as the competition in the NFL. A lot of guys who could get by with 4.6 speed in college won't get by with it in the NFL. Some still will but it's an even measure to provide a baseline and confirm on field observations. I'd say a 4.6 is concerning for a WR. It's not a death bell but certainly reason to reexamine.

It all depends on how a player succeeded in college. For a deep threat who ran past defenders, a 4.6 would concern me. For a guy like Robinson, who gets open with good routes, it doesn't concern me.

Except, Robinson doesn't run great routes. He also doesn't consistently use his body/frame to his advantage. I also don't see him consistently high pointing the football. He reminds me of a poor mans Crabtree, but he's not as shifty.

 

[MAC_32]

The 40 is overrated but speed is relative. It matters at least a bit because the competition in college isn't the same as the competition in the NFL. A lot of guys who could get by with 4.6 speed in college won't get by with it in the NFL. Some still will but it's an even measure to provide a baseline and confirm on field observations. I'd say a 4.6 is concerning for a WR. It's not a death bell but certainly reason to reexamine.

It all depends on how a player succeeded in college. For a deep threat who ran past defenders, a 4.6 would concern me. For a guy like Robinson, who gets open with good routes, it doesn't concern me.

Except, Robinson doesn't run great routes. He also doesn't consistently use his body/frame to his advantage. I also don't see him consistently high pointing the football. He reminds me of a poor mans Crabtree, but he's not as shifty.

i don't think he is a great route runner, good enough though, the other stuff? We must have watched different games, I think he has consistently displayed all of those skills.

 

[Rhythmdoctor]

I can understand why Robinson is "sliding" after the slower than expected 40-time, but quite honestly he looks like a player to me. Someone's going to get a pretty damn good receiver in the 2nd or 3rd round. It's easy to say it's Keenan Allen all over again, even though that doesn't happen very frequently… but Robinson seems like a guy that's going to be a very nice bargain for his eventual team.

Agree with this as well. I was pretty high on Allen Robinson pre-combine and if anything, maybe my expectations are a bit tempered but I didn't lose confidence in what I see when I watch Robinson. What I see is a playmaker with phenomenal field vision and I don't think blazing speed is going to prevent him from being a star. If anything, I now am hoping I can get him with a top 16 pick in dynasty.

I would compare Allen Robinson to a Boldin or Brandon Marshall type player in that they all thrive from RAC. Robinson had a poor 40 time (still .1 better than Boldin and only .08 slower than Marshall) but had elite measurements in both the vertical and broad jump. In fact, Robinson is very close to Brandon Marshall from many perspectives and aside from 40 time (4.6 vs 4.52), Robinson is a slightly better athlete than Marshall with his vertical and broad being elite.

So when you put it all out there, I still think Robinson becomes a star in the NFL. I need to see what he looked like in the drills, as I recall some on here saying he looked bad. Even if that's true, everyone can have an "off" day. Getting him as a late 1st or early 2nd in dynasty would be tremendous value.

 

[Brewtown]

Name 40 - Bench - Vert - Broad - 3-cone - 20yd S - 60yd S

Sankey 4.49 ~ 26 ~ 35.5 in. ~ 10'6" ~ 6.75 ~ 4.00 ~ --

Gio 4.53 ~ 19 ~ 33.5 ~ 10'2" ~ 6.91 ~ 4.12. ~ 11.41

Tre 4.50 ~ -- ~ 38.5 ~ 10'6" ~ -- ~ -- ~ --

Lache 4.51 ~ 15 ~ 41.5 ~ 11'2" ~ -- ~ -- ~ --

J. Hill 4.66 ~ 20 ~ 29 ~ 9'5" ~ -- ~ -- ~ --

I. Crowell 4.57 ~ 23 ~ 38 ~ 9'9" ~ -- ~ -- ~ --

M. Ball 4.66 ~ 15 ~ 32 ~ 9'10" ~ 6.88 ~ 4.40 ~ --

L. Bell 4.60 ~ 24 ~ 31.5 ~ 9'10" ~ 6.75 ~ 4.24 ~ --

Z. Stacy 4.55 ~ 27 ~ 33 ~ 10'2" ~ 6.70 ~ 4.17 ~ --

Lacy (DNP)

Knile 4.37 ~ 31 ~ 33.5 ~ 10'1" ~ 6.96 ~ 4.38 ~ --

Christine 4.54 ~ 27 ~ 43 ~ 10'5" ~ 6.69 ~ 4.02 ~ 11.56

ENJOY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Brewtown]

Name 40 - Bench - Vert - Broad - 3-cone - 20yd S - 60yd S

Sankey 4.49 ~ 26 ~ 35.5 in. ~ 10'6" ~ 6.75 ~ 4.00 ~ --

Gio 4.53 ~ 19 ~ 33.5 ~ 10'2" ~ 6.91 ~ 4.12. ~ 11.41

Tre 4.50 ~ -- ~ 38.5 ~ 10'6" ~ -- ~ -- ~ --

Lache 4.51 ~ 15 ~ 41.5 ~ 11'2" ~ -- ~ -- ~ --

J. Hill 4.66 ~ 20 ~ 29 ~ 9'5" ~ -- ~ -- ~ --

I. Crowell 4.57 ~ 23 ~ 38 ~ 9'9" ~ -- ~ -- ~ --

M. Ball 4.66 ~ 15 ~ 32 ~ 9'10" ~ 6.88 ~ 4.40 ~ --

L. Bell 4.60 ~ 24 ~ 31.5 ~ 9'10" ~ 6.75 ~ 4.24 ~ --

Z. Stacy 4.55 ~ 27 ~ 33 ~ 10'2" ~ 6.70 ~ 4.17 ~ --

Lacy (DNP)

Knile 4.37 ~ 31 ~ 33.5 ~ 10'1" ~ 6.96 ~ 4.38 ~ --

Christine 4.54 ~ 27 ~ 43 ~ 10'5" ~ 6.69 ~ 4.02 ~ 11.56

ENJOY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry about the format...

 

[Milkman]

2.59 mark of this video shows some speed. I mean he doesn't look like a burner here but he beats everybody to the end zone. He plays faster than 4.6 but again he has never been a burner.

http://draftbreakdown.com/video/allen-robinson-vs-ohio-st-2013/

He ran a 1.54 10 yard split. Martavis Bryant ran a 1.53 10 yard split. He showed in his vert and broad jump that he is very explosive. He is also not a midget. If anything the hands worry me the most now because I heard he drops small balls this weekend. His size and explosiveness will make up for his lack of top end speed.

 

[Brewtown]

Name 40 - Bench - Vert - Broad - 3-cone - 20yd S - 60yd S

Sankey 4.49 ~ 26 ~ 35.5 in. ~ 10'6" ~ 6.75 ~ 4.00 ~ --

Gio 4.53 ~ 19 ~ 33.5 ~ 10'2" ~ 6.91 ~ 4.12. ~ 11.41

Tre 4.50 ~ -- ~ 38.5 ~ 10'6" ~ -- ~ -- ~ --

Lache 4.51 ~ 15 ~ 41.5 ~ 11'2" ~ -- ~ -- ~ --

J. Hill 4.66 ~ 20 ~ 29 ~ 9'5" ~ -- ~ -- ~ --

I. Crowell 4.57 ~ 23 ~ 38 ~ 9'9" ~ -- ~ -- ~ --

M. Ball 4.66 ~ 15 ~ 32 ~ 9'10" ~ 6.88 ~ 4.40 ~ --

L. Bell 4.60 ~ 24 ~ 31.5 ~ 9'10" ~ 6.75 ~ 4.24 ~ --

Z. Stacy 4.55 ~ 27 ~ 33 ~ 10'2" ~ 6.70 ~ 4.17 ~ --

Lacy (DNP)

Knile 4.37 ~ 31 ~ 33.5 ~ 10'1" ~ 6.96 ~ 4.38 ~ --

Christine 4.54 ~ 27 ~ 43 ~ 10'5" ~ 6.69 ~ 4.02 ~ 11.56

ENJOY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SANKEY - 2nd best 40 - 4th in bench - 5th best in vert - 2nd in broad jump - 2nd best 3 cone - best 20 Yd Shuttle

Some additional thoughts - Z Stacy's 3-cone was great last year!

Sankey did better than Gio in nearly every category!

Knile Davis and C Micheal were beasts!

 

[cloppbeast]

Except, Robinson doesn't run great routes. He also doesn't consistently use his body/frame to his advantage. I also don't see him consistently high pointing the football. He reminds me of a poor mans Crabtree, but he's not as shifty.

I'm guessing that you were already pretty low on Robinson before the combine. Still I ask, what 40 did you expect him to run based on watching him play? I would only guess you already thought he wasn't fast anyway.

In other news, I don't share some of your observations about the player.

He doesn't run great routes; he's not Reggie Wayne. But,his routes are not poor. One can definitely tell he has put work into his craft and I can only assume he will continue to do so as a professional. More importantly, I see the necessary talent level - quickness and agility - to become a very good route runner, which his 3 cone of 7.0 and 20 yard shuttle of 4.0 confirm. Bottom line: on film he gets open.

Again on shiftiness, I disagree. For a dude his height, he has some pretty good quick twitch, even though I wouldn't compare him to Tavon Austin.

I can't say I've observed much about how he uses his body to shield defenders; although I do remember him making some deep contested catches. He at least has some pretty good body control.

 

[cloppbeast]

Agree with this as well. I was pretty high on Allen Robinson pre-combine and if anything, maybe my expectations are a bit tempered but I didn't lose confidence in what I see when I watch Robinson. What I see is a playmaker with phenomenal field vision and I don't think blazing speed is going to prevent him from being a star. If anything, I now am hoping I can get him with a top 16 pick in dynasty.

I'm pretty glad he ran a slow 40, as I may get him in the 2nd round.

 

[Milkman]

Sankey showed he has the goods under the hood. If I remember correctly EBF was questioning it. What do you think now EBF?

 

[cloppbeast]

Nothing much worse post combine than the over reaction from the media.

What about post combine overreaction from members of the shark pool - one in particular?

 

[Brewtown]

Nothing much worse post combine than the over reaction from the media.

What about post combine overreaction from members of the shark pool - one in particular?

You ever see that show on ESPN - Numbers Never Lie?

 

[EBF]

I like Robinson. I said the night before he ran that anything under 4.50 or over 4.60 would surprise me. He ended up running right at the bottom of that range. Mildly disappointing. There aren't that many 4.6+ WRs having great success in the league. It's not impossible either though. Look at Keenan Allen and Anquan Boldin. Those guys aren't fast. They get open because their first step is quick. Robinson is a different body type, but I think he's similar in terms of being a guy who's a lot quicker in a phone booth situation than he is fast in a straight line sprint. I watch his game cuts and don't see a bad athlete. He is quick out of his plants and elusive in the open field. Consistently able to generate space for himself with his first step. Lee is somewhat similar in that way. Not especially fast. Very quick though.

I think the combine was a slight arrow down for him. Mainly because he didn't look as smooth in the positional drills as I expected. He went from being a potential top 6 guy on my board to being a guy that makes more sense as a late 1st-early 2nd round rookie pick. I think the lesson of Lacy/Allen last year is that the eyeball test is king though, and Robinson is a player who looked pretty convincing on gameday. After the combine, I mostly agree with these takes:

http://cfn.scout.com/2/1377154.html

Allen Robinson, Penn State 6-3, 210 (Jr.)
Draft Him: The offensive weapon during a rough period, he was always producing and always coming up with the key, clutch plays. Throw it up in the air and he’ll go get it, and he’s never going to shy away from a midrange catch. He might not be an ideal No. 1, but he could be a killer No. 2.
Key To The Combine: The athleticism has to match the tape. Was he great because he had two NFL quarterbacks – yeah, Matt McGloin actually turned into an NFL quarterback – throwing to him and had a pro coach in Bill O’Brien coaching a good passing game, or is he really that good? It’s the latter, but he’s out of the top 50 if he doesn’t bust a low 4.5.
Should Go: Second Round
Will Go: Second Round

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/allen-robinson?id=2543509

Strengths

Excellent size. Good line release -- defeats press. Sinks his hips, breaks off sharply and creates separation. Works back to the ball. Climbs the ladder -- has elevation and body control to contort and make plays in the air. Turns short throws into chunk plays -- gets upfield quickly and shows shiftiness, vision and run strength. Executed a full route tree in a pro-style offense. Highly productive -- totaled 174-2,445-17 (14.0) in last two seasons. Will be a 21-year-old rookie. Weaknesses Lacks elite top-end speed -- needs double moves to separate vertically and gets tracked down from behind. Occasionally tracking and leap timing are off. Is more confident in his hands outside the numbers or in the air than he is over the middle. Traps throws against his body and double-catches some. Tends to cradle throws or go down to the ground. Swings the ball loosely as a runner. Can improve physicality and sustain as a blocker. Bottom LineThe Big Ten's leading receiver the last two seasons, Robinson is a big, fluid, outside receiver with a nice combination of "above-the-rim" prowess and run-after-catch ability. Offers possession skills, playmaking ability and red-zone utility to develop into a solid No. 2 option.

Robinson has always struck me as being somewhere on the fringes between being a strong NFL WR1 prospect and a guy who would be better as a sidekick type. The scouting reports echo that sentiment. After the combine, I think he looks something like a Rueben Randle/Eric Decker/Keenan Allen/Randall Cobb type of prospect who will slide a little bit in the draft, but potentially be a productive starter in the right situation. I think you'll be getting a decent risk/reward proposition if you take him somewhere in the 10-16 range of a PPR rookie draft. I'm not sure he justifies a higher pick than that, but my hunch is that it's a moot point because I think his ADP will be lower than that. 2nd-3rd round WRs tend to slide into that range.

 

[Brewtown]

Sankey showed he has the goods under the hood. If I remember correctly EBF was questioning it. What do you think now EBF?

He was questioning more than his hands. He also specifically said that he does nothing great.

I would contend he does a lot that is great. Like running the football, and apparently he runs one great 3-cone drill, and 20 yd shuttle!

 

[voiceofunreason]

Sankey showed he has the goods under the hood. If I remember correctly EBF was questioning it. What do you think now EBF?

He was questioning more than his hands.He also specifically said that he does nothing great.

I would contend he does a lot that is great. Like running the football, and apparently he runs one great 3-cone drill, and 20 yd shuttle!

I'm drafting him 1.01 in my professional combine league!

 

[Milkman]

Sankey showed he has the goods under the hood. If I remember correctly EBF was questioning it. What do you think now EBF?

He was questioning more than his hands.He also specifically said that he does nothing great.

I would contend he does a lot that is great. Like running the football, and apparently he runs one great 3-cone drill, and 20 yd shuttle!

I'm drafting him 1.01 in my professional combine league!

So you're saying he's a workout warrior? I mean he has had a very nice college career as well.

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

Draft insider Tony Pauline believes Georgia Southern RB Jerick McKinnon jumped up two or three rounds after an impressive showing at the NFL Combine.
McKinnon posted an official 4.41 forty time, and logged unofficial times of 4.35 and 4.38. His 10-yard split of 1.46 seconds tied Kent State's Dri Archer for the best time amongst RBs. "This morning sources told me they feel McKinnon has cemented himself as a fourth round pick and could break into the third frame," wrote Pauline. "A few teams now rate McKinnon as the fifth running back on their boards." Coming into the combine, CBS Sports ranked the Eagles' star as the draft's No. 17 running back and a sixth-round pick. The 5-foot-9, 209-pound McKinnon closed out his collegiate career with back-to-back 1,000-yard rushing seasons.

Source: DraftInsider.net

 

[Brewtown]

Sankey showed he has the goods under the hood. If I remember correctly EBF was questioning it. What do you think now EBF?

He was questioning more than his hands.He also specifically said that he does nothing great.

I would contend he does a lot that is great. Like running the football, and apparently he runs one great 3-cone drill, and 20 yd shuttle!

I'm drafting him 1.01 in my professional combine league!

So you're saying he's a workout warrior? I mean he has had a very nice college career as well.

I would say he has had a great college career!PASTED ARTICLE:

Sankey entered 2013 quietly, and left the UW record books a tattered mess upon his departure.

Bishop Sankey had the best 2012 season that nobody seemed to notice. Over 1400 yards and 16 TDs and people weren't really paying attention to him coming into 2013.

His 2013 season blew his 2012 season out of the water. He topped 100 yards in 9 games, 200 in 3, scored at least 1 TD in every contest, and added just over 300 yards receiving. His 1869 rushing yards is easily #1 all time at UW. 20 rushing TDs puts him behind only Corey Dillon. He is third all time in both rushing yards (3496) and yards from scrimmage (4063), and first all time in touchdowns (38).

Sankey was named a second team All-American and a finalist for the Doak Walker award, given to college football's best running back.

It's safe to say that Sankey met and destroyed every reasonable expectation set for him in 2013, as well as for his career. Had he stayed for a fourth year, he likely would have set the bar to a level that would not be broken for generations. But there was not much else for him to come back for, and now he's showing everybody at the NFL combine what we've seen and known for the past couple of years: he's a complete back, without a hole in his game. Unlike the Chris Polk injury fabrication a couple years ago, somebody is going to fall in love with Sankey, and he's going to go fast in the 2014 NFL Draft. And I expect him to continue to meet expectations at that level as well.

 

[EBF]

Sankey showed he has the goods under the hood. If I remember correctly EBF was questioning it. What do you think now EBF?

He was questioning more than his hands.He also specifically said that he does nothing great.

I would contend he does a lot that is great. Like running the football, and apparently he runs one great 3-cone drill, and 20 yd shuttle!

Great is a relative term. Sankey had a nice combine that moved him up my board. In the context of this draft class, he now looks like one of the better options at RB for sure. He's got adequate size, explosiveness, quickness, power, and versatility to be an NFL starter. He's gone from being at the bottom of my 2nd tier to near the top. However, let's not overstate his performance. In the context of all the good backs floating around the NFL, his performance was nothing special. As an NFL talent I put him in that big cluster of guys like Bernard Pierce, LeVeon Bell, Toby Gerhart, Shonn Greene, Eddie Lacy, Benjarvus Green-Ellis, and Mike Leshoure who can thrive if thrust into a prominent role, but aren't necessarily so talented that they're guaranteed a long term starting job. So to me it will come down to his opportunity. He can be an instant FF starter on the Browns, Jaguars, or Raiders. If he goes to a backup role he could easily end up in the Pierce/Gerhart abyss where you're holding him for a few years before you see any kind of a payoff. He's probably not Chris Johnson or Arian Peterson who's going to force his way onto the field and dominate.

Right now there are something like 40-45 RBs currently on NFL rosters who were picked in the first 3 rounds of the NFL draft. To be a premium long term dynasty asset, it's not enough to be an average member of that group. You actually have to go above and beyond. You've probably got to be one of the top 10-15 backs in the entire league for the duration of your prime. For everyone else, the situation is what determines their immediate utility. I've not seen anything from Sankey that makes me think he's going to be immune to that, so my optimism will be pretty intimately connected to his landing spot. He's not a tier one talent for me.

 

[EBF]

Here's the math, by the way:

First Round - 18

Second Round - 15

Third Round - 8

So what this means is that, on average, every team in the NFL already has a RB who was a top 100 draft pick. Of course that includes some filler like Isaiah Pead and Ronnie Hillman, but then again it doesn't include all the late round surprises/UDFA types like Alfred Morris, Zac Stacy, and Arian Foster.

Point being, ranking as one of the best RBs in your draft class doesn't necessarily mean that much when there's a new crop of players entering the league every year. There were 4-5 guys just as good as Sankey in the last draft, there are a handful in this class, and next year will bring another slew of them. In this big game of musical chairs, a RB has to be either really good or really lucky to find one of the 32 starting jobs up for grabs.

 

[Brewtown]

EBF - you are really missing the mark with Sankey (both before and now after the combine).

This sentence really puts a major ***** in your credibility and has me questioning your ability to see talent:

As an NFL talent I put him in that big cluster of guys like Bernard Pierce, LeVeon Bell, Toby Gerhart, Shonn Greene, Eddie Lacy, Benjarvus Green-Ellis, and Mike Leshoure who can thrive if thrust into a prominent role, but aren't necessarily so talented that they're guaranteed a long term starting job.

Shonn Greene, Benjarvis Green-Ellis??? For real??

 

[JFS171]

McKinnon is interesting to me… comes from a weird ### offense though aligning in weird formations, but I thought he looked solid at the Senior Bowl, and he's obviously one helluva athlete.

 

[Xue]

McKinnon is interesting to me… comes from a weird ### offense though aligning in weird formations, but I thought he looked solid at the Senior Bowl, and he's obviously one helluva athlete.

He looked great running the ball at Senior Bowl, but his pass blocking was atrocious.

 

[werdnoynek]

Sankey showed he has the goods under the hood. If I remember correctly EBF was questioning it. What do you think now EBF?

He was questioning more than his hands.He also specifically said that he does nothing great.

I would contend he does a lot that is great. Like running the football, and apparently he runs one great 3-cone drill, and 20 yd shuttle!

Great is a relative term. Sankey had a nice combine that moved him up my board. In the context of this draft class, he now looks like one of the better options at RB for sure. He's got adequate size, explosiveness, quickness, power, and versatility to be an NFL starter. He's gone from being at the bottom of my 2nd tier to near the top. However, let's not overstate his performance. In the context of all the good backs floating around the NFL, his performance was nothing special. As an NFL talent I put him in that big cluster of guys like Bernard Pierce, LeVeon Bell, Toby Gerhart, Shonn Greene, Eddie Lacy, Benjarvus Green-Ellis, and Mike Leshoure who can thrive if thrust into a prominent role, but aren't necessarily so talented that they're guaranteed a long term starting job. So to me it will come down to his opportunity. He can be an instant FF starter on the Browns, Jaguars, or Raiders. If he goes to a backup role he could easily end up in the Pierce/Gerhart abyss where you're holding him for a few years before you see any kind of a payoff. He's probably not Chris Johnson or Arian Peterson who's going to force his way onto the field and dominate.

Right now there are something like 40-45 RBs currently on NFL rosters who were picked in the first 3 rounds of the NFL draft. To be a premium long term dynasty asset, it's not enough to be an average member of that group. You actually have to go above and beyond. You've probably got to be one of the top 10-15 backs in the entire league for the duration of your prime. For everyone else, the situation is what determines their immediate utility. I've not seen anything from Sankey that makes me think he's going to be immune to that, so my optimism will be pretty intimately connected to his landing spot. He's not a tier one talent for me.

Agreed. I have a hard time finding anything special or great about him. All around solid prospect. People keep bringing up Gio but Gio plays with more quicks and suddenness, agility as some call it... Special IMO. The combine numbers were a surprise and I agree he could have success in the right situation, but he leaves quite a bit to be desired for my tastes. I guess I just don't like to play it safe.

 

[werdnoynek]

McKinnon is interesting to me comes from a weird ### offense though aligning in weird formations, but I thought he looked solid at the Senior Bowl, and he's obviously one helluva athlete.

He looked great running the ball at Senior Bowl, but his pass blocking was atrocious.

Never had to block in that triple option... Hell I read he played some QB too.

 

[JFS171]

2.59 mark of this video shows some speed. I mean he doesn't look like a burner here but he beats everybody to the end zone. He plays faster than 4.6 but again he has never been a burner.

http://draftbreakdown.com/video/allen-robinson-vs-ohio-st-2013/

He ran a 1.54 10 yard split. Martavis Bryant ran a 1.53 10 yard split. He showed in his vert and broad jump that he is very explosive. He is also not a midget. If anything the hands worry me the most now because I heard he drops small balls this weekend. His size and explosiveness will make up for his lack of top end speed.

He also finished 7th in the short shuttle and 6th in the 60-yard shuttle. Big vertical, big broad jump... kid can move, and he won't turn 21 till late August.

 

[JFS171]

McKinnon is interesting to me comes from a weird ### offense though aligning in weird formations, but I thought he looked solid at the Senior Bowl, and he's obviously one helluva athlete.

He looked great running the ball at Senior Bowl, but his pass blocking was atrocious.

Never had to block in that triple option... Hell I read he played some QB too.

I believe on the broadcast Mayock said he played QB, FB, HB, and CB at various times. That they didn't know where exactly to assign him at the combine since he was also a corner.

 

[cloppbeast]

EBF - you are really missing the mark with Sankey (both before and now after the combine).

This sentence really puts a major ***** in your credibility and has me questioning your ability to see talent:

Come on, dude. Why don't we at least wait and see how Sankey turns out before we start questioning EBF's talent evaluation. He hasn't even played a down yet. Relax.

Have you ever considered your love for Sankey is misguided? Or have you never been wrong about a player?

I personally do like Sankey. I think he's just behind the Auburn guy. But like EBF said, a lot depends on where they go.

BTW, I would venture a guess that EBF is much better than you at figuring out who can play football and who can't.

 

[Brewtown]

Sankey showed he has the goods under the hood. If I remember correctly EBF was questioning it. What do you think now EBF?

He was questioning more than his hands.He also specifically said that he does nothing great.

I would contend he does a lot that is great. Like running the football, and apparently he runs one great 3-cone drill, and 20 yd shuttle!

Great is a relative term. Sankey had a nice combine that moved him up my board. In the context of this draft class, he now looks like one of the better options at RB for sure. He's got adequate size, explosiveness, quickness, power, and versatility to be an NFL starter. He's gone from being at the bottom of my 2nd tier to near the top. However, let's not overstate his performance. In the context of all the good backs floating around the NFL, his performance was nothing special. As an NFL talent I put him in that big cluster of guys like Bernard Pierce, LeVeon Bell, Toby Gerhart, Shonn Greene, Eddie Lacy, Benjarvus Green-Ellis, and Mike Leshoure who can thrive if thrust into a prominent role, but aren't necessarily so talented that they're guaranteed a long term starting job. So to me it will come down to his opportunity. He can be an instant FF starter on the Browns, Jaguars, or Raiders. If he goes to a backup role he could easily end up in the Pierce/Gerhart abyss where you're holding him for a few years before you see any kind of a payoff. He's probably not Chris Johnson or Arian Peterson who's going to force his way onto the field and dominate.

Right now there are something like 40-45 RBs currently on NFL rosters who were picked in the first 3 rounds of the NFL draft. To be a premium long term dynasty asset, it's not enough to be an average member of that group. You actually have to go above and beyond. You've probably got to be one of the top 10-15 backs in the entire league for the duration of your prime. For everyone else, the situation is what determines their immediate utility. I've not seen anything from Sankey that makes me think he's going to be immune to that, so my optimism will be pretty intimately connected to his landing spot. He's not a tier one talent for me.

Agreed. I have a hard time finding anything special or great about him. All around solid prospect. People keep bringing up Gio but Gio plays with more quicks and suddenness, agility as some call it... Special IMO. The combine numbers were a surprise and I agree he could have success in the right situation, but he leaves quite a bit to be desired for my tastes. I guess I just don't like to play it safe.

He beat Gio in every combine measure and had better college statistics.

You are right - you are not playing it safe by saying Gio is better than Sankey.

The odds are stacked against you in that statement!

 

[werdnoynek]

McKinnon is interesting to me comes from a weird ### offense though aligning in weird formations, but I thought he looked solid at the Senior Bowl, and he's obviously one helluva athlete.

He looked great running the ball at Senior Bowl, but his pass blocking was atrocious.

Never had to block in that triple option... Hell I read he played some QB too.

I believe on the broadcast Mayock said he played QB, FB, HB, and CB at various times. That they didn't know where exactly to assign him at the combine since he was also a corner.

I think he's probably happy with the decision to run with the RBs. As you said, he's showed up well during the draft process and the senior bowl. Will be interesting to see who gives him a shot.

 

[werdnoynek]

Sankey showed he has the goods under the hood. If I remember correctly EBF was questioning it. What do you think now EBF?

He was questioning more than his hands.He also specifically said that he does nothing great.

I would contend he does a lot that is great. Like running the football, and apparently he runs one great 3-cone drill, and 20 yd shuttle!

Great is a relative term. Sankey had a nice combine that moved him up my board. In the context of this draft class, he now looks like one of the better options at RB for sure. He's got adequate size, explosiveness, quickness, power, and versatility to be an NFL starter. He's gone from being at the bottom of my 2nd tier to near the top. However, let's not overstate his performance. In the context of all the good backs floating around the NFL, his performance was nothing special. As an NFL talent I put him in that big cluster of guys like Bernard Pierce, LeVeon Bell, Toby Gerhart, Shonn Greene, Eddie Lacy, Benjarvus Green-Ellis, and Mike Leshoure who can thrive if thrust into a prominent role, but aren't necessarily so talented that they're guaranteed a long term starting job. So to me it will come down to his opportunity. He can be an instant FF starter on the Browns, Jaguars, or Raiders. If he goes to a backup role he could easily end up in the Pierce/Gerhart abyss where you're holding him for a few years before you see any kind of a payoff. He's probably not Chris Johnson or Arian Peterson who's going to force his way onto the field and dominate.

Right now there are something like 40-45 RBs currently on NFL rosters who were picked in the first 3 rounds of the NFL draft. To be a premium long term dynasty asset, it's not enough to be an average member of that group. You actually have to go above and beyond. You've probably got to be one of the top 10-15 backs in the entire league for the duration of your prime. For everyone else, the situation is what determines their immediate utility. I've not seen anything from Sankey that makes me think he's going to be immune to that, so my optimism will be pretty intimately connected to his landing spot. He's not a tier one talent for me.

Agreed. I have a hard time finding anything special or great about him. All around solid prospect. People keep bringing up Gio but Gio plays with more quicks and suddenness, agility as some call it... Special IMO. The combine numbers were a surprise and I agree he could have success in the right situation, but he leaves quite a bit to be desired for my tastes. I guess I just don't like to play it safe.

He beat Gio in every combine measure and had better college statistics.You are right - you are not playing it safe by saying Gio is better than Sankey.

The odds are stacked against you in that statement!

I suggest you watch them play instead of looking at numbers.

 

[Brewtown]

EBF - you are really missing the mark with Sankey (both before and now after the combine).

This sentence really puts a major ***** in your credibility and has me questioning your ability to see talent:

Come on, dude. Why don't we at least wait and see how Sankey turns out before we start questioning EBF's talent evaluation. He hasn't even played a down yet. Relax.

Have you ever considered your love for Sankey is misguided? Or have you never been wrong about a player?

I personally do like Sankey. I think he's just behind the Auburn guy. But like EBF said, a lot depends on where they go.

BTW, I would venture a guess that EBF is much better than you at figuring out who can play football and who can't.

Sure he is.... Bishop Sankey is no Benjarvis!

I would bet on my instincts any day!

Benjarvis Green-Ellis...???

 

[EBF]

Brewtown is just trolling and everyone, myself included, is taking the bait. All of his comments are just intended to wind people up. First time I've ever looked for the "ignore" function on these forums. I think if people stop giving him the attention he craves then maybe he will stop the obnoxious posting. I don't think it's sincere. The dude is just having a laugh.

As for Sankey, I like him more than BJGE. More dynamic. My bigger point was that there are lots of "good" backs in the NFL and merely hitting that level doesn't guarantee some kind of huge NFL career. Put him on a team with no competition for touches and I'd like his chances to have a Zac Stacy type of rookie season at least though.

 

[Brewtown]

Sankey showed he has the goods under the hood. If I remember correctly EBF was questioning it. What do you think now EBF?

He was questioning more than his hands.He also specifically said that he does nothing great.

I would contend he does a lot that is great. Like running the football, and apparently he runs one great 3-cone drill, and 20 yd shuttle!

Great is a relative term. Sankey had a nice combine that moved him up my board. In the context of this draft class, he now looks like one of the better options at RB for sure. He's got adequate size, explosiveness, quickness, power, and versatility to be an NFL starter. He's gone from being at the bottom of my 2nd tier to near the top. However, let's not overstate his performance. In the context of all the good backs floating around the NFL, his performance was nothing special. As an NFL talent I put him in that big cluster of guys like Bernard Pierce, LeVeon Bell, Toby Gerhart, Shonn Greene, Eddie Lacy, Benjarvus Green-Ellis, and Mike Leshoure who can thrive if thrust into a prominent role, but aren't necessarily so talented that they're guaranteed a long term starting job. So to me it will come down to his opportunity. He can be an instant FF starter on the Browns, Jaguars, or Raiders. If he goes to a backup role he could easily end up in the Pierce/Gerhart abyss where you're holding him for a few years before you see any kind of a payoff. He's probably not Chris Johnson or Arian Peterson who's going to force his way onto the field and dominate.

Right now there are something like 40-45 RBs currently on NFL rosters who were picked in the first 3 rounds of the NFL draft. To be a premium long term dynasty asset, it's not enough to be an average member of that group. You actually have to go above and beyond. You've probably got to be one of the top 10-15 backs in the entire league for the duration of your prime. For everyone else, the situation is what determines their immediate utility. I've not seen anything from Sankey that makes me think he's going to be immune to that, so my optimism will be pretty intimately connected to his landing spot. He's not a tier one talent for me.

Agreed. I have a hard time finding anything special or great about him. All around solid prospect. People keep bringing up Gio but Gio plays with more quicks and suddenness, agility as some call it... Special IMO. The combine numbers were a surprise and I agree he could have success in the right situation, but he leaves quite a bit to be desired for my tastes. I guess I just don't like to play it safe.

He beat Gio in every combine measure and had better college statistics.You are right - you are not playing it safe by saying Gio is better than Sankey.

The odds are stacked against you in that statement!

I suggest you watch them play instead of looking at numbers.

I've watched and do watch.

Nice Avatar Francis...

 

[Brewtown]

Brewtown is just trolling and everyone, myself included, is taking the bait. All of his comments are just intended to wind people up. First time I've ever looked for the "ignore" function on these forums. I think if people stop giving him the attention he craves then maybe he will stop the obnoxious posting. I don't think it's sincere. The dude is just having a laugh.

As for Sankey, I like him more than BJGE. More dynamic. My bigger point was that there are lots of "good" backs in the NFL and merely hitting that level doesn't guarantee some kind of huge NFL career. Put him on a team with no competition for touches and I'd like his chances to have a Zac Stacy type of rookie season at least though.

I'm not "trolling". I call them as I see them.I put up what I thought was valuable information in typing up the combine numbers to important backs in the last two years drafts.

You're the one who brought up Benjarvis and Shonne Green - not me. I felt that was way missing the mark, and I didn't want you to mislead anyone on this forum looking for valuable information.

 

[cloppbeast]

There's not much buzz on this thread about Odell Beckham Jr's combine - what, with all the Bishop Sankey talk . In my opinion, Beckham just secured the 2nd WR ranking. He didn't put up ridiculous stats at LSU because the situation - sharing targets with Landry in a run first offense. But you could really see his talent on the field though, and he confirmed it at the combine. I'd predict him going late the first round, and he probably leap frogged Lee. I had hoped Beckham would fall to the end of the first round of rookie drafts, but now he seems like a mid rounder.

 

[MAC_32]

Nothing much worse post combine than the over reaction from the media.

What about post combine overreaction from members of the shark pool - one in particular?

You ever see that show on ESPN - Numbers Never Lie?

no, because they do.

 

[MAC_32]

Sankey showed he has the goods under the hood. If I remember correctly EBF was questioning it. What do you think now EBF?

He was questioning more than his hands. He also specifically said that he does nothing great.

I would contend he does a lot that is great. Like running the football, and apparently he runs one great 3-cone drill, and 20 yd shuttle!

i didn't think he was great in game tape either, combine will cause me to watch some more though. Exceeded expectations, but to totally change your board based on one afternoon in his underwear would be silly. It's the extreme of extreme examples, but before you completely change an evaluation on a player based on the combine remember Chris Henry.

 

[tdmills]

Except, Robinson doesn't run great routes. He also doesn't consistently use his body/frame to his advantage. I also don't see him consistently high pointing the football. He reminds me of a poor mans Crabtree, but he's not as shifty.

I'm guessing that you were already pretty low on Robinson before the combine. Still I ask, what 40 did you expect him to run based on watching him play? I would only guess you already thought he wasn't fast anyway.

In other news, I don't share some of your observations about the player.

He doesn't run great routes; he's not Reggie Wayne. But,his routes are not poor. One can definitely tell he has put work into his craft and I can only assume he will continue to do so as a professional. More importantly, I see the necessary talent level - quickness and agility - to become a very good route runner, which his 3 cone of 7.0 and 20 yard shuttle of 4.0 confirm. Bottom line: on film he gets open.

Again on shiftiness, I disagree. For a dude his height, he has some pretty good quick twitch, even though I wouldn't compare him to Tavon Austin.

I can't say I've observed much about how he uses his body to shield defenders; although I do remember him making some deep contested catches. He at least has some pretty good body control.

I was down on Robinson pre combine ( my rankings/write up are in another thread) but I was more disappointed in the gauntlet/drills vs 40 for Robinson.

 

[Kitrick Taylor]

Just looking over Amaro's combine, and I'm debating how he's a better prospect than Vance McDonald was a year ago.

Obviously, Amaro was used heavily this past season, and put up historic numbers in the wide open TT offense. But take a look at their respective combines:

Amaro: 6'5" 265lbs 34" arms, 9"hands

McDonald 6'4" 267lbs, 34 3/8" arms, 10 1/8 hands

40:

Amaro 4.74

McDonald 4.69

Bench:

Amaro 28

McDonald 31

Vertical:

Amaro 33

McDonald 33.5

Broad:

Amaro 118

McDonald 119

3 Cone:

Amaro 7.42

McDonald 7.08

20 yard shuttle:

Amaro 4.3

McDonald 4.53

60 yard shuttle:

Amaro 12.26

McDonald 11.73

McDonald was better than Amaro in every drill but the 20 yard shuttle.