Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
Guess some people really don't ever learn...
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Dynasty: Josh Gordon is not a top tier player...right? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Concept Coop
- Start date
massraider
Footballguy
What info would there be?
He suspended for the year. People will line up to get burned again this offseason. Until then, he can't damage the team anymore than he already has.
Soulfly3
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I traded Bishop Sankey away for him in the preseason with a rebuild team, so I'm thinking/hoping that he'll make it back and be an asset (and I do like what I'm reading so far) but this is an outrageously silly statement.
There's plenty of WR's outside of the top 3-4 that have just as much, or more, upside without even close to the risks that Gordon has.
Soulfly3
Footballguy
I can fully appreciate someone saying what you just said.
But again.. just for arguments sake on "risk"... He last failed a piss test for weed, on what date? (and note, he's tested at least weekly)
massraider
Footballguy
heckmanm
Footballguy
Well, he's currently suspended for ALCOHOL, so it seems that asking just about weed is incomplete at best.
If he gets reinstated after this season, does he face another year suspension if he has a beer and gets caught?
massraider
Footballguy
heckmanm
Footballguy
Well, from an NFL.com article:
Now, did that 2-year clock reset with the failed test in February? Seems likely, but I'm not sure.
massraider
Footballguy
No news is good news, I get that. Glad his Instagram game is tight.
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
Is he worth holding? Absolutely. I actually grabbed him off waivers for about 10% of my BB budget in one league a few weeks ago.
Should he be in anyone's top 5 dynasty WRs? GTFO. Hoping he gets things straightened out is one thing, counting on him to do so or pricing that expectation in is another thing entirely.
Should he be in anyone's top 5 dynasty WRs? GTFO. Hoping he gets things straightened out is one thing, counting on him to do so or pricing that expectation in is another thing entirely.
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
Weed isn't the only risk with Gordon. Booze too. Purple drank / codeine too. General knucklehead behavior too. Also, he wasn't the same dominant FF force in 2014 vs. 2013 -- a lot of things changed (QB, coaches, offensive system) between 2013 and 2014, and things will be even more different by the time he steps foot on an NFL field again in 2016 (if he avoids getting in trouble in that timeframe). It's moved far beyond just "he might smoke weed again" at this point if you're being even remotely realistic about the situation.
thecardiackid
Footballguy
well at least it looks like the browns should have a (once again) very high draft pick and will try to eff up picking another *franchise* qb...
Why would I price him for less if I am holding? He is as sure of a lottery ticket as anyone else, you just need him to stay out of trouble. Rather have him than get a lot of high upside guys as you have seen him perform. I would buy low but I am only selling for top dollar.
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Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
There's more risk that just him failing another test - and you can't just dismiss that risk no matter how many tests he passes first. All this time off is likely not good for him either. Even if he keeps in shape he's not on an NFL field, he's not working with NFL players or coaches to refine his skills, etc.
It just doesn't make much sense to value him over other young elite WRs that are playing right now and don't have any potential extraordinary restrictions on playing.
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Another difference between 2013 to 2014 is he sat out 10 games to start the 2014 season. In those 10 games he couldn't practice with his teammates, while his QB got rapport with other players. But you expected him to just pick up where he left off again? It's the same as his rookie season because he sat out the year before not playing football. He played the 2012 season, suspended for weeks 1 and 2 of 2013 and then played the last 14 games. That's the most consecutive football he's played in college/HS. When did he get into a groove? The back end of 2013. How good would you perform at your job if you kept taking weeks/months off at a time?
Does he have risk? Yes. But criticizing his on the field play after lengthy suspensions is a pretty loaded view.
Assuming you're able to grab him for cheap he's worth stashing if you have space. Low risk high reward. That's all there is to say at this point. In one league i'm probably out of it so i put him on my bench. In another I'm one of the top teams and don't want to burn a roster spot so he's still on the waiver wire - but i expect someone to pick him up at some point before the end of the season.
jacobo_moses
Footballguy
Drafted Josh Gordon in 16 tm Dyn IDPstartup. Took him round 8 and was WR like 44. Here's hoping
FUBAR
Footballguy
jacobo_moses
Footballguy
I guess going to Rehab for 30 plus days, and the recent training videos doesn't have you convinced. Upside is to great for me to have him drop past WR45.
at drafting Gordon in round 8
ghostguy123
Footballguy
FUBAR
Footballguy
Two years out of the league and his issues means way too much risk to take him as a starter or your top backup imo. I wasn't even confident taking him where I did (best ball, free "mock" league, wr93).
Nero
Footballguy
FUBAR
Footballguy
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
jacobo_moses
Footballguy
It's a 16 team dynasty idp balanced scoring startup. I have Dez Bryant, Breshad Perriman, Josh Gordon and took Malcolm Mitchell the same round (as insurance if Gordon) doesn't work out.
Soulfly3
Footballguy
If/when he gets reinstated... Good golly. who knows.
Man looks like a cyborg at the moment.
If there was a report out that Blackmon had just completed rehab, saw pics that showed he had lost weight and was actively working with a professional trainer and trying to get reinstated I'd absolutely spend a pick on him.
spider321
Footballguy
Pick me, too!
I'm old, fat, slow, and never played organized football, but I feel like 2 months in a gym and I could really help your fantasy team.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
I'm no Gordon fan and don't/won't own him in any leagues, but if Mike Vick can spend 3 years in prison and then come back and be the #1 overall fantasy scorer then something crazy could happen for Gordon as well.
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ghostguy123
Footballguy
FUBAR
Footballguy
You mean his second year back after spending 18 months in jail.
Vick was out of the league for 2 years and spent his first year back mostly on the bench. Then had one good year (his 2nd year back) before crashing again.
Gordon missed two full years and didn't play all that well in his few games in 14.
But if vick's experience leads someone to draft gordon as a starter or primary backup, have at it.
steelers1080
Footballguy
He's a gamble pick. The choice many people are making is Josh Gordon or: Breshad Perriman, Tyler Boyd, Michael Floyd, Desean Jackson, Larry Fitzgerald, Cameron Meredith, Adam Theilen, etc. Those guys will never be top 5 fantasy WRs. Ever again. Larry maybe, but he almost retired this year. Some people are willing to gamble on a player who has a 10% chance of becoming a solid WR again, than take a mediocre player who could end up having a few good weeks per season. It's about strategy. Is it the smart play? No, obviously. But if Gordon somehow returns to the field, and then returns to the player he once was (incredibly athletic, fed targets like crazy, and making the wrong read every other play), then the team that took a chance on him has a great shot at going deep in the fantasy playoffs.ghostguy123 said:
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
The dude is a lottery ticket being drafted around other lottery tickets or old guys with somewhere between a day and a year left in their fantasy relevant careers. Like I said I'm not taking him but it's certainly fair if some people decide to go after talent over good behavior with their swings for the fences.ghostguy123 said:
You've repeated this several times now but it's having the opposite effect of what you're intending. I already think worrying about filling out your starting lineup or primary backup roles is a losing strategy in redraft leagues. In dynasty startup drafts worrying about something like who your "primary backup" is going to be is intensely poor draft strategy imo.FUBAR said:
In deep leagues he might be worth a last round stash. That's about it.
As an example, I don't see how he is worthy of a spot in 10 and 12 team leagues.
Maybe in a 14 team league.
16 teams and above- you can make a legitimate case.
He might be worth a 5WR spot. 16 teams X 5 WR= 80th WR overall?
As an example, I don't see how he is worthy of a spot in 10 and 12 team leagues.
Maybe in a 14 team league.
16 teams and above- you can make a legitimate case.
He might be worth a 5WR spot. 16 teams X 5 WR= 80th WR overall?
FUBAR
Footballguy
I'm not so much worried about the slot as I am saying gordon isn't worth taking that high. But I am thinking more redraft than dynasty right now so I need to adjust my thoughts a bit. Gordon still isn't worth the WR45, that's in the field of treadwell, Maclin, Lockett, Decker, etc.
I'd probably consider gordon higher in small leagues where the receivers in the 40s don't carry much value and taking the lottery pick is worth it. But in larger leagues where a receiver far more likely to put up top 36 stats is worth more, I won't touch gordon until we're into the 60s (roughly where Steelers1080 seems to put him).
FUBAR
Footballguy
Funny, I think our logic is similar but I'd rather have gordon in a 12 team league with decent sized benches than counting on him to contribute in deep leagues (wr5 in 16 team league is probably about right though)
jacobo_moses
Footballguy
I guess this is my point. I agree with Steelers1080. I am totally ok in a 16 team Dynasty league seeing him in the 40 to 50 WR range and taking him there. Could I wait longer? Sure but in a league full of a bunch of Footballguys members you never know how early is too early and how late is too late. I put him in the 40 to 50 WR range because of the following:
Matt Waldman is keeping him in a 12 team 40+ man roster Dynasty league, he is only 25/26 yrs old still, went to rehab so he obviously wants to fix what he has struggled with, posted current workout videos on twitter/Instagram in the past 2 weeks that he is training and working hard to get ready for 2017. I mean he had Campbell and Weeden throwing to him when he put up over 1600 yards and 10 TD's in 14 games. Yes that is 2 yrs ago, yes I know you guys can post workout videos too and that doesn't mean your automatically a top 20 WR. Yes I get all that. But the reasons above (upside and reward) outweigh the risk and bust factor. Which is why in my case 8 picks later I took Malcolm Mitchell to hedge my bet.
To each his own. I'm willing to take the risk.
Last season I was in 8 dynasty leagues that drafted before 2016 and most of them at least a few years old. Gordon has been cut in exactly one of those leagues. Ever. Now I own him myself in 2 of them so if you want to throw me out that's still 6 leagues and he's been cut once. 5 of those leagues fall under the old FFPC rules which require you to cut down to 16 players in off-season, and since you have to keep a K and a D that means 14 position players. These are all 12 team leagues and no one in a FFPC league I've been has ever cut him.
So to those of you who are saying stuff like you need to be in a 14 or 16 type league or a deep league to justify using a roster spot or late draft pick on him I think the evidence suggests that's not accurate with respect to his value. Now he may not be valued to you and that is fine, but he's got value to someone.
So to those of you who are saying stuff like you need to be in a 14 or 16 type league or a deep league to justify using a roster spot or late draft pick on him I think the evidence suggests that's not accurate with respect to his value. Now he may not be valued to you and that is fine, but he's got value to someone.
DallasDMac
Footballguy
Wow, talk about deja-vu? This sounds exactly like the thread last year, only 80% of the positive posts aren't just from one person. Kinda eerie.
Tau837
Footballguy
14 position players x 12 teams suggests something like 18 QBs, 60 RBs, 70 WRs, and 20 TEs kept. Obviously, those numbers would vary some, but the fact that he may be kept as one of 70-ish WRs kept in those leagues of yours doesn't really get at what has been discussed recently in this thread.
This tangent started when @jacobo_moses said he drafted Gordon in round 8 as WR44 in a 16 team dynasty IDP startup, then went on to draft Mitchell 8 picks later in the 8th round, meaning the Gordon pick was no later than pick #120. I have never played IDP, so hard for me to accurately forecast the IDP players drafted by that point, but I'd guess at the time of that Gordon pick there had been 43 WRs, 9 QBs, 28 RBs, 10 TEs (assuming TE required), 30 defensive players, or something like that. If true, I think that is a major overreach. YMMV.
Regardless, the conversation would have been quite different if it started with someone saying he drafted him as WR60+.
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