[DYNASTY] Matt Forte (2 Viewers)

[Biabreakable]

I don't want to quote your entire post for this, but you were you insinuating that Barber comes out on third down? He most defnitely, for most if not all of his career, has not come out on 3rd downs. Good receiver.Problem with the "little thing" of pass protection, is that anybody can learn it. All it takes is desire. Very replaceable in a RB.

I guess that is why Hightower is starting and Wells isn't.I guess that is why so many more "talented" RB ride pine.And I guess your still saying Forte is a bust.You completely missed the point I was trying to make in regards to Barber. But I don't always say what I am thinking so well.

 

[PahtyTom]

I don't want to quote your entire post for this, but you were you insinuating that Barber comes out on third down? He most defnitely, for most if not all of his career, has not come out on 3rd downs. Good receiver.Problem with the "little thing" of pass protection, is that anybody can learn it. All it takes is desire. Very replaceable in a RB.

Yes Brandon Jackson and Felix Jones are going to learn this very soon, I swear.

 

[Instinctive]

I don't want to quote your entire post for this, but you were you insinuating that Barber comes out on third down? He most defnitely, for most if not all of his career, has not come out on 3rd downs. Good receiver.Problem with the "little thing" of pass protection, is that anybody can learn it. All it takes is desire. Very replaceable in a RB.

I guess that is why Hightower is starting and Wells isn't.I guess that is why so many more "talented" RB ride pine.And I guess your still saying Forte is a bust.You completely missed the point I was trying to make in regards to Barber. But I don't always say what I am thinking so well.

I didn't say it was inherently there, I said it could be learned. All it takes is desire. And, not that I like Felix Jones, I am totally against Switz's Felix stance...but he plays third downs sometimes as well.What talented RB is riding pine right now because of pass protection? Maybe Wells. Who has 4 NFL games and is LEARNING pass protection. We could say maybe DeAngelo sat b/c of pass protection but...year 3 he mastered it and plays a lto now! Imagine that! Somebody learned it because Pass Protection is somethign you learn and not something you are born with! (regarding RBs)I repeat, all you need is the desire. Want to spell out the point you were making with Barber? Because if that's not what you were insinuating, then yes, you didn't say what you were thinking very well.P.S. to the BJ and FJ comment, I think Grant and Barber are both more talented so pass protection there is an irrelevant issue.

 

[Biabreakable]

Ok I will try to restate what I mean...

We were talking about Forte's job security. And several people here saying that Forte is just an average RB and easily replaceable.

So I was trying to entertain what might happen if the Bears did have a 1st round pick in 2010 (they don't) and if they did use that pick on a talented RB (unlikely as I dont think that is a priority for the Bears).

So what I said was.. that I don't think Forte is as talented as DeAnglo Williams. So if Forte had to compete with a talent such as Stewart I think it would result in a time share. And Forte might eventualy lose out to a more talented player. The other comparison I made was to Marion Barber.

Barber was a 4th round pick. Always a RBBC back in college. And he has split time in the NFL also. In fact it seems he performs better by having his carries managed more. They gave him a chance to be the feature RB and that didn't go as well as when he was sharing carries. However Forte has not been a RBBC RB in his college or pro career thus far. He did well as a feature RB as a rookie. But just for arguments sake lets say the Bears do land another really good RB and he gets forced into a time share. Again he would probably be like Barber and get most of the 3rd down work because he is such a good reciever and because of his pass protection. Also like Barber I think Forte would also still get the goal line carries, so I would expect he would be complimented by a speed RB between the 20's but the overall impact might not be that significant to his production. Similar to what we are seeing with Barber now when he is healthy.

So I hope that clears that up. I wasn't suggesting that either Forte or Barber are not good on 3rd down and not sure where anyone would have interpeted what I said before that way.

Due to the Bears not having a 1st round pick in 2010 and my personal opinion that QB and RB for the Bears are set so those positions the lowest priority for upgrade I think such a scenario is very unlikely. And if it did happen (lets say Wolfe or someone emerged) it probably would not change Fortes role that much except between the 20's. In my opinion.

But according to some here Forte is a bust and soon to be replaced by someone in street clothes.

 

[Instinctive]

That makes more sense. And I can see it being true. However, it would be just as unsurprising for them to use their 2nd (do they have a 2nd?) or 3rd on a guy like Best (who may not fall it's way too early for this) or McKnight or some other RB that emerges and to see them go into a timeshare.

I don;t think Forte would be immeditaley replaced, I just strongly believe that he simply isn't that talented. He just has a very good fantasy situation, and every time a matchup comes along that isn't great, or the team needs to make a drive or get a score...Forte isn't the guy they'll go to. Unlike many others taken in his area of perceived value, he is entirely tied to situation.

I would use him as a RB2, possibly. Considering how I drafted if you turned my 2nd round pick into Forte I'd probably be starting Ahmad Bradshaw/Donald Brown (if he breaks out later)/Cedric Benson over him.

 

[two_dollars]

Saying Forte is a bust is laughable and the people who say it should have their posting privledges stripped for a year. He's not going anywhere. We remember what Forte has given us. We remember Benson, Enis, Salaam, James Allen, Edgar Bennett, Raymont Harris, Anthony Thomas.. since Payton, the only back better was Neil Anderson and you can argue either way for Thomas Jones. I think has can pass Jones definitively, and at best make a case to be the same sentance as Anderson as the best chicago RB since Payton. But he is no bust. Forte has work ethic, commitment, can catch, can block, has vision, makes people miss.. only thing he REALLY lacks is breakaway speed. Believe me when I say Chicago is very happy and pleased with Forte. They are not going to look to replace him for a long long time. Lots of other questions need to be answered first.

 

[Biabreakable]

I was thinking about the Neal Anderson comparison and I consider Anderson a great RB. He never got the respect that some of the RB from his era did and he didnt really have one skill that stood out, but like Forte he did everything well and had a very productive career.

1 year is way too soon to make such a comparison. But just from watching both of them.. I would say that Forte might have a bit more power than Anderson and that his cuts are not as quick as Andersons were.

The offensive line is no where near as good right now as what Anderson had to work with.

If Forte has a career like Anderson did that would be a very valuable player to have...

 

[gianmarco]

So far, another regular day at the office for Forte:

14 carries for 20 yds with almost 3 qtrs down.

 

[SSOG]

So far, another regular day at the office for Forte:14 carries for 20 yds with almost 3 qtrs down.

In fairness, he does get to play the Lions twice a year.

 

[gianmarco]

So far, another regular day at the office for Forte:14 carries for 20 yds with almost 3 qtrs down.

In fairness, he does get to play the Lions twice a year.

Only once more this year ETA--And it's not as if the defenses he faced have been brutal against the run. Aside from Pitt (2nd), he's faced 13th (Seattle), 16th (Green Bay), and 24th (Atlanta) aside from the Lions.

 

[Football Jones]

Forte was clearly hampered with some kind of lower body injury the first 4 weeks, but it looks like he's now close to 100%. There's just nowhere to run right now. The Bears need Knox on the field at all times. He's young & inexperienced, but Knox is going to be incredible when he gets in tune with Cutler. That would help open up the running game.

Anyway, I still believe Forte will end up with top-10 numbers this season (PPR leagues). Forte is going to be a top FF RB for a long, long time. He's that talented. The Bears are on the right track with Cutler, Knox, Bennett, & Olsen. They simply need to get better on the OL. It'll happen.

In short, there's very, very few RBs I'd rather have in a dynasty league. The guy will be money. Absolutely no question. In fact, the time is now if you want to acquire Forte. His value will never be lower & it's a prime time to make a move. RBs like Forte, who excel at everything, don't come along very often.

 

[EBF]

RBs like Forte, who excel at everything, don't come along very often.

 

[gianmarco]

RBs like Forte, who excel at everything, don't come along very often.

Everything except actually running the ball well. 3 games with a 2.2 ypc or less. Another game at 3.1 ypc. Only one good game and it was vs. Detroit. And not against good run defenses save Pitt.It's ok to be wrong. I was very high on Kevin Smith this year and he's looking just as bad running the ball as well. I hope he turns it around. But I'm not going to kid myself and say he's doing well when he is just turning in game after game with average to below-average ypc and totals. Forte is doing the same thing. And the thing is, he didn't do much better last year. The year end #'s just looked better because of the huge amount of carries he had and his catches in PPR.

 

[Football Jones]

RBs like Forte, who excel at everything, don't come along very often.

I would think even the FFers who aren't that high on Forte would say he does everything well. He just doesn't have any weaknesses in any of the 3 phases (running, receiving, blocking) that tend to get RBs benched or made part of a RBBC. I'm well aware he's strugglling this season (compared to last year, anyway), but to me, this is such an easy call (in a dynasty league). I know many don't agree, but that's FF. It wouldn't be any fun if we all had the same opinion.

 

[Sleeping King]

Anyone watching tonight would know it's the Bears line's fault for the poor run game. They are brutal, especially the guards. Now the fumbles are a different concern but Forte didn't have any problems holding onto the ball last season.

 

[VaTerp]

Anyone watching tonight would know it's the Bears line's fault for the poor run game. They are brutal, especially the guards. Now the fumbles are a different concern but Forte didn't have any problems holding onto the ball last season.

Forte seems to get hit in the backfield on 90% of his runs. The guards get ZERO push in the middle of the line.

 

[Football Jones]

RBs like Forte, who excel at everything, don't come along very often.

Everything except actually running the ball well. 3 games with a 2.2 ypc or less. Another game at 3.1 ypc. Only one good game and it was vs. Detroit. And not against good run defenses save Pitt.It's ok to be wrong. I was very high on Kevin Smith this year and he's looking just as bad running the ball as well. I hope he turns it around. But I'm not going to kid myself and say he's doing well when he is just turning in game after game with average to below-average ypc and totals. Forte is doing the same thing. And the thing is, he didn't do much better last year. The year end #'s just looked better because of the huge amount of carries he had and his catches in PPR.

Except I don't believe I'm wrong. With all due respect, I find it amazing people can be so sure he's a bust after what he accomplished last year. And mostly, after what he looked like (with your eyes). I don't get it, LOL. People are simply jumping to conclusions. Also, a lot of folks forget we play FF. This won't be decided for a long time, but Forte is a virtual lock to be a good long-term FF RB, IMO. Anyway, I'm glad there are people who disagree. Like I said, it wouldn't be fun if we all thought the same thing.

 

[Football Jones]

BTW, Chicago's starting WRs need to be Knox & Bennett. I believe that'll eventually happen, but the sooner the better, IMO. Not that Hester is a bum, but every little bit will help open up the running game.

This is slowly but surely going to be an outstanding offense. The OL is the only thing holding them back. They've got to go OL in the next couple drafts/FA periods.

 

[gianmarco]

RBs like Forte, who excel at everything, don't come along very often.

Everything except actually running the ball well. 3 games with a 2.2 ypc or less. Another game at 3.1 ypc. Only one good game and it was vs. Detroit. And not against good run defenses save Pitt.It's ok to be wrong. I was very high on Kevin Smith this year and he's looking just as bad running the ball as well. I hope he turns it around. But I'm not going to kid myself and say he's doing well when he is just turning in game after game with average to below-average ypc and totals. Forte is doing the same thing. And the thing is, he didn't do much better last year. The year end #'s just looked better because of the huge amount of carries he had and his catches in PPR.

Except I don't believe I'm wrong. With all due respect, I find it amazing people can be so sure he's a bust after what he accomplished last year. And mostly, after what he looked like (with your eyes). I don't get it, LOL. People are simply jumping to conclusions. Also, a lot of folks forget we play FF. This won't be decided for a long time, but Forte is a virtual lock to be a good long-term FF RB, IMO. Anyway, I'm glad there are people who disagree. Like I said, it wouldn't be fun if we all thought the same thing.

What did he accomplish last year? Other than having 300+ carries, his 3.9 ypc isn't impressive. This year, it's considerably worse. You keep saying he excels at everything but he does NOT excel at running the football. He's not even average at it.

 

[William Munny]

Anyone watching tonight would know it's the Bears line's fault for the poor run game. They are brutal, especially the guards. Now the fumbles are a different concern but Forte didn't have any problems holding onto the ball last season.

Absolutely HAVE TO get Omiyale out of there asap. Beekman needs to be put back in for next week. And he has been one of my favorites for a long time, but Kreutz is just getting manhandled out there.

 

[az_prof]

He looks like an average NFL starting back. He isn't able to create something out of nothing--he's not a great back. But even with a hole he isn't going to bust too many game changing runs. He strikes me as a guy who will have some competition in a year or two--like Addai.

 

[robertd52]

I agree that bear offense is heading towards some good things, I also agree that Forte is a guy who is NOT "special" talent wise, and without being the center of the offense wont put up top flight #s.

If he holds the job in Chicago for the next 5 years he will be serviceable...you could do much worse, but Forte is not special, period.

 

[William Munny]

I miss Benson

 

[Football Jones]

RBs like Forte, who excel at everything, don't come along very often.

Everything except actually running the ball well. 3 games with a 2.2 ypc or less. Another game at 3.1 ypc. Only one good game and it was vs. Detroit. And not against good run defenses save Pitt.It's ok to be wrong. I was very high on Kevin Smith this year and he's looking just as bad running the ball as well. I hope he turns it around. But I'm not going to kid myself and say he's doing well when he is just turning in game after game with average to below-average ypc and totals. Forte is doing the same thing. And the thing is, he didn't do much better last year. The year end #'s just looked better because of the huge amount of carries he had and his catches in PPR.

Except I don't believe I'm wrong. With all due respect, I find it amazing people can be so sure he's a bust after what he accomplished last year. And mostly, after what he looked like (with your eyes). I don't get it, LOL. People are simply jumping to conclusions. Also, a lot of folks forget we play FF. This won't be decided for a long time, but Forte is a virtual lock to be a good long-term FF RB, IMO. Anyway, I'm glad there are people who disagree. Like I said, it wouldn't be fun if we all thought the same thing.

What did he accomplish last year? Other than having 300+ carries, his 3.9 ypc isn't impressive. This year, it's considerably worse. You keep saying he excels at everything but he does NOT excel at running the football. He's not even average at it.

What did he accomplish? LOL. Forte was only the 2nd-best FF RB (PPR) barely behind DWill & way ahead of 3rd-best MJD. Don't forget we play FF. And Forte did it behind a poor OL & a horrid passing attack (which is why YPC can be an especially deceiving stat). He's not doing nearly as well this season, but Forte was definitely dinged the first 4 weeks. He looked close to 100% in this game, but the OL is really bad. Chicago does have a much better QB now, but teams are still stacking the box (like they should). Cutler can play better & the OL can play MUCH better. This offense is just now starting to scratch the surface. Knox, Bennett, & Olsen will only get better & better. The Bears' O is going to be a monster once the OL gets improved & Cutler gets in sync.

Lots of people don't like Forte & believe last year was a fluke. My eyes tell me different. We shall see who was right (in time).

 

[Knobs]

I don't believe last year was a fluke at all. I believe he looked lousy last year and he looks lousy this year as well. If he were getting as many touches this year as he had last year he would be a fantasy force again.

I think the ONLY difference between last year and this one is the number of touches.

 

[SSOG]

RBs like Forte, who excel at everything, don't come along very often.

I would think even the FFers who aren't that high on Forte would say he does everything well. He just doesn't have any weaknesses in any of the 3 phases (running, receiving, blocking) that tend to get RBs benched or made part of a RBBC. I'm well aware he's strugglling this season (compared to last year, anyway), but to me, this is such an easy call (in a dynasty league). I know many don't agree, but that's FF. It wouldn't be any fun if we all had the same opinion.

Your original quote was that RBs who excel at everything don't come along very often, and I agree. Right now, there's Tomlinson and Westbrook (both at the end of their careers), MJD... and not much else.Of course, you also said that Forte excels at everything, and I don't agree. He doesn't EXCEL at running the ball. He excels at blocking, he excels at receiving (well, in my opinion, he's a competent receiver who lucked into a terrible offense and became King Checkdown, but for the sake of argument I'll say he excels), and he's good enough at running the ball. Guys that fit *THAT* particular description are much more common. Wanna know some other RBs who are excellent blockers, excellent receivers, and good enough runners? Knowshon Moreno, for one. Mewelde Moore for another. Kevin Faulk for a third. Tim Hightower. Joseph Addai. Fred Jackson. Not that uncommon at all.

Except I don't believe I'm wrong. With all due respect, I find it amazing people can be so sure he's a bust after what he accomplished last year. And mostly, after what he looked like (with your eyes). I don't get it, LOL. People are simply jumping to conclusions. Also, a lot of folks forget we play FF.

The original point of the thread wasn't to call Forte a bust, it was to point out that people were spending a PREMIUM draft pick on a non-premium talent. And so far, the results on the field have confirmed that analysis.There are plenty of non-premium talents who are very much worth owning in dynasty leagues. In addition to Forte, there's Kevin Smith. Matt Schaub. Owen Daniels. Marshawn Lynch. Wes Welker. Jerricho Cotchery. All of these guys are valuable dynasty players... but none of these guys are worth a first round draft pick in a startup. Not even close. In the end, you only get one first rounder, and you sure as heck better spend it on a mind-blowing, game-altering talent because this is probably the ONLY sure-fire way to acquire such a player (unless you luck out and win the #1 draft pick when there's an Adrian Peterson-type prospect out there... and even then, for every Peterson or Calvin Johnson or Tomlinson there's still another Reggie Bush or Charles Rodgers or Darren McFadden).

 

[Football Jones]

RBs like Forte, who excel at everything, don't come along very often.

I would think even the FFers who aren't that high on Forte would say he does everything well. He just doesn't have any weaknesses in any of the 3 phases (running, receiving, blocking) that tend to get RBs benched or made part of a RBBC. I'm well aware he's strugglling this season (compared to last year, anyway), but to me, this is such an easy call (in a dynasty league). I know many don't agree, but that's FF. It wouldn't be any fun if we all had the same opinion.

Your original quote was that RBs who excel at everything don't come along very often, and I agree. Right now, there's Tomlinson and Westbrook (both at the end of their careers), MJD... and not much else.Of course, you also said that Forte excels at everything, and I don't agree. He doesn't EXCEL at running the ball. He excels at blocking, he excels at receiving (well, in my opinion, he's a competent receiver who lucked into a terrible offense and became King Checkdown, but for the sake of argument I'll say he excels), and he's good enough at running the ball. Guys that fit *THAT* particular description are much more common. Wanna know some other RBs who are excellent blockers, excellent receivers, and good enough runners? Knowshon Moreno, for one. Mewelde Moore for another. Kevin Faulk for a third. Tim Hightower. Joseph Addai. Fred Jackson. Not that uncommon at all.

Except I don't believe I'm wrong. With all due respect, I find it amazing people can be so sure he's a bust after what he accomplished last year. And mostly, after what he looked like (with your eyes). I don't get it, LOL. People are simply jumping to conclusions. Also, a lot of folks forget we play FF.

The original point of the thread wasn't to call Forte a bust, it was to point out that people were spending a PREMIUM draft pick on a non-premium talent. And so far, the results on the field have confirmed that analysis.There are plenty of non-premium talents who are very much worth owning in dynasty leagues. In addition to Forte, there's Kevin Smith. Matt Schaub. Owen Daniels. Marshawn Lynch. Wes Welker. Jerricho Cotchery. All of these guys are valuable dynasty players... but none of these guys are worth a first round draft pick in a startup. Not even close. In the end, you only get one first rounder, and you sure as heck better spend it on a mind-blowing, game-altering talent because this is probably the ONLY sure-fire way to acquire such a player (unless you luck out and win the #1 draft pick when there's an Adrian Peterson-type prospect out there... and even then, for every Peterson or Calvin Johnson or Tomlinson there's still another Reggie Bush or Charles Rodgers or Darren McFadden).

I know what you're getting at, but most people are of the opinion he's not only a bust at his ADP, but an average FF RB who'll likely get replaced fairly soon. It's a reaction stemmed mainly from Forte's so-so FF production this season. And it mostly comes from people who didn't like him last year (& were wrong). I'm not saying that would taint anyone's opinion, but if somebody didn't like Forte last year, they're more apt to be critical of him this season. Just makes sense.Anyway, I'm high on Moreno & he looks to have a very nice FF career, but MM, KFaulk, Hightower, & Addai aren't in Forte's class, IMO. FJackson is a pretty talented RB, but needs a much better situation. It's easy to point out Forte's YPC & say he's an average NFL RB. I believe Forte is a multi-talented RB who looks to be in a good situation for a long time.

It all boils down to what you see with your eyes. What I see tells me Forte is an outstanding talent (albeit one who's played in a struggling offense for the most part), & when you couple his talent with his situation, you get a special FF RB. This will be a very interesting situation to monitor because it's the perfect time to deal for him if you're a believer.

 

[corpcow]

RBs like Forte, who excel at everything, don't come along very often.

I would think even the FFers who aren't that high on Forte would say he does everything well. He just doesn't have any weaknesses in any of the 3 phases (running, receiving, blocking) that tend to get RBs benched or made part of a RBBC.

THere's a difference between "not having weaknesses" and "doing everything well". I will say, as I've said all along, that Forte is not BAD at any of those 3 phases of the game., only that he's slightly above average. The problem is that some looked at his elite fantasy production last year and interpreted that to mean he was an elite talent. EBF, myself and others have not said that Forte sucks, only that his elite production was the result of elite opportunity, not talent, and opportunity is more likely to change - PARTICULARLY for a RB who is merely average or above average.

 

[gianmarco]

I don't believe last year was a fluke at all. I believe he looked lousy last year and he looks lousy this year as well. If he were getting as many touches this year as he had last year he would be a fantasy force again.I think the ONLY difference between last year and this one is the number of touches.

 

[jurb26]

I don't believe last year was a fluke at all. I believe he looked lousy last year and he looks lousy this year as well. If he were getting as many touches this year as he had last year he would be a fantasy force again.I think the ONLY difference between last year and this one is the number of touches.

Yeah, his supporting cast is still bellow average. I think a lot of people were expecting Cutler to magically transform that offense. Well, it hasn't happened. Their WRs are still average and their oline is still bellow average. The only thing Cutler has really done is steal touches from Forte by forcing the ball down field more and Chi has attempted more passes.

 

[Knight who says Ni]

Chicago's line is pretty bad - I can't count how many times I've seen Forte get mauled 2-3 yards behind the scrimmage just as he is given the ball. Still, that's something you have to consider when paying top price for a FF back. I am sorely regretting it, myself. I had hoped - like many - that Cutler being on the field would force defenses to spread out and not stack the box, and that might still be true, but the line is not helping Forte out. Neither is Cutler, for that matter, who almost never seems to even look to throw it at Forte

 

[Badm]

The line is brutal and its week 6. Plus he is 23. He runs, blocks and catches well, now super awesome, but well. No competition ahead of him...Whats the argument again for Dynasty????

 

[Badm]

The line is brutal and its week 6. Plus he is 23. He runs, blocks and catches well, now super awesome, but well. No competition ahead of him...Whats the argument again for Dynasty????

 

[Righetti]

as a Forte owner, one thing that bothers me about having Culter under center is that the Bears will only run once when it's 1st and Goal.

Yesterday it was First and Goal on the 8 and Forte went 4 yards with his first carry but then they threw the next two leading to the TD to Clark IIRC..

now i did NOT see the game, just looked at the box-score.. but this seems to happened a lot. he's getting once chance to stick it in the endzone and just doesn't seem to be getting that done.

 

[Knobs]

Okay, let's pretend Forte IS a special talent and it's only his lousy o-line that is holding him back. When is Chicago going to get a better line? They don't have high draft picks. Lower draft picks don't usually pan out. Elite linemen don't become FA's very often.

So when, and how, is Forte supposed to get a better o-line? Three years from now at best? If that's the case, why wouldn't you take a player who is ALREADY in a better situation? In dynasty leagues it's hard to project more than a few years out...so I am trouble understanding how Forte is going to improve his fantasy value.

In order to have elite fantasy value he either needs to start getting LOTS more touches or he needs to start doing a LOT MORE with the touches he's getting - which isn't going to happen without a better o-line.

 

[Knobs]

The line is brutal and its week 6. Plus he is 23. He runs, blocks and catches well, now super awesome, but well. No competition ahead of him...Whats the argument again for Dynasty????

Try reading the thread. Lots of reasons have been given against his dynasty value, including in the OP.

 

[Jackstraw]

Jim Brown in his prime wouldn't have run for 50 behind that line. They need to figure something out to get him the ball. It was hard to watch last night.

 

[Statler & Waldorf]

Okay, let's pretend Forte IS a special talent and it's only his lousy o-line that is holding him back. When is Chicago going to get a better line? They don't have high draft picks. Lower draft picks don't usually pan out. Elite linemen don't become FA's very often.

So when, and how, is Forte supposed to get a better o-line? Three years from now at best? If that's the case, why wouldn't you take a player who is ALREADY in a better situation? In dynasty leagues it's hard to project more than a few years out...so I am trouble understanding how Forte is going to improve his fantasy value.

In order to have elite fantasy value he either needs to start getting LOTS more touches or he needs to start doing a LOT MORE with the touches he's getting - which isn't going to happen without a better o-line.

I don't agree with that above statement. There's tons of good talent in the late first and beyond. It's not like a basketball draft. But I do agree with all the hate for Forte. His line is awful, yeah, but he was also a product of his circumstance last year.

 

[Knobs]

Okay, let's pretend Forte IS a special talent and it's only his lousy o-line that is holding him back. When is Chicago going to get a better line? They don't have high draft picks. Lower draft picks don't usually pan out. Elite linemen don't become FA's very often.

So when, and how, is Forte supposed to get a better o-line? Three years from now at best? If that's the case, why wouldn't you take a player who is ALREADY in a better situation? In dynasty leagues it's hard to project more than a few years out...so I am trouble understanding how Forte is going to improve his fantasy value.

In order to have elite fantasy value he either needs to start getting LOTS more touches or he needs to start doing a LOT MORE with the touches he's getting - which isn't going to happen without a better o-line.

I don't agree with that above statement. There's tons of good talent in the late first and beyond. It's not like a basketball draft. But I do agree with all the hate for Forte. His line is awful, yeah, but he was also a product of his circumstance last year.

The majority of them don't pan out. I'm not at all saying it's impossible for them to find a late round gem but the odds are generally against it.

 

[Multiple Scores]

Been saying he's a bust the whole year, then everyone came out of hiding to brag about the Detroit game and now everyone is apologizing for him. Whoever said Jim Brown couldn't run for 50 against that line in his prime is delusional. Did you really just compare Farte to Brown?

 

[Badm]

The line is brutal and its week 6. Plus he is 23. He runs, blocks and catches well, now super awesome, but well. No competition ahead of him...Whats the argument again for Dynasty????

Try reading the thread. Lots of reasons have been given against his dynasty value, including in the OP.

This thread reads just like Benson threads did last year. How's that working for ya....

 

[Knobs]

The line is brutal and its week 6. Plus he is 23. He runs, blocks and catches well, now super awesome, but well. No competition ahead of him...Whats the argument again for Dynasty????

Try reading the thread. Lots of reasons have been given against his dynasty value, including in the OP.

This thread reads just like Benson threads did last year. How's that working for ya....

Listen buddy, you asked a question that has been asked and answered numerous times in this thread. If you want to bring something other than some smartass remark then you'll probably get a more thorough answer.Benson needed to get his head on straight. It seems he's done that. Do you think Forte is going to get cut and signed by the Bengals?Not many people (if anyone) is saying he's a worthless player either in real life or in fantasy. Heck, if you're starting you're going to have some value. He's just not worth a top round pick in dynasty leagues. Because he's not an elite talent. Nor is he in an elite situation.

 

[Badm]

I'd love to hear what you think an elite talent is before that person becomes the obvious choice for elite talent in week 5 of a RBs 2nd year. So far Forte in his rookie season had 1700 combines yards and 12 TDs. This year with a new QB, new WR core, 2 new OLineman and consistent 8 in the box, putrid Oline play, he is on pace to have 1400 combined yards. The guy is 23 on top of this... He has what, maybe 6 more productive years left in him?

And this doesn't make him worth a top round pick in Dynasty?

 

[Steed]

Okay, let's pretend Forte IS a special talent and it's only his lousy o-line that is holding him back. When is Chicago going to get a better line? They don't have high draft picks. Lower draft picks don't usually pan out. Elite linemen don't become FA's very often.

So when, and how, is Forte supposed to get a better o-line? Three years from now at best? If that's the case, why wouldn't you take a player who is ALREADY in a better situation? In dynasty leagues it's hard to project more than a few years out...so I am trouble understanding how Forte is going to improve his fantasy value.

In order to have elite fantasy value he either needs to start getting LOTS more touches or he needs to start doing a LOT MORE with the touches he's getting - which isn't going to happen without a better o-line.

I don't agree with that above statement. There's tons of good talent in the late first and beyond. It's not like a basketball draft. But I do agree with all the hate for Forte. His line is awful, yeah, but he was also a product of his circumstance last year.

The majority of them don't pan out. I'm not at all saying it's impossible for them to find a late round gem but the odds are generally against it.

While Orlando Pace isn't playing well, its the guards that are stifling Forte's production the most. LG Frank Omiyale might be one of the worst starting guards in the league. To my knowledge, you can find great guard prospects in the 3rd round or later, so while this may not help him this year, help could be on the way next year.

 

[Mordraken]

OK, couple of comparisons. Numbers crunched because I'm bored....

First - Bears 2009 vs. Bears 2008:

Last year through 5 games they passed on 52.6% of plays. This year, it's 59.7%. Through the 5 games, that's 20 fewer run plays than last year, so around 60 yards right there (even at their bad YPC rate). Also, the productivity of the pass game through 5 games is close to 20% better (7 YPA vs. 5.9 last year) while the run is slightly worse (5% worse - 3.9 ypc vs. 4.1). Finally, last year through 5 games he had caught 22 passes compared to 18 this year. At 7 YPR that's another 25 yards. Put those together, and through no fault of his own (necessarily) Fote is going to be worse this year. Chicago is simply passing more, being more successful when they do pass, and not passing to the RB as much (even as a % of plays).

Second, what I am afraid of:

First year Forte = average 77 yards rushing & 30 receiving per game with 0.75 touchdowns/game (started all 16 games)

First year starting for Curtis Enis = 76 rushing, 28 receiving with 0.4 TDs/game started (started only 12 games in his 2nd year)

First year starting for Anthony Thomas = 85 rushing, 13 receiving, 0.5 TDs/game (started 14 games)

As a Bears fan, I personally find the comparison to Curtis Enis terrifying....

(PS - I loved Forte last year, and have him on my Dynasty team, but I'm always afraid of Bears RBs..).

 

[Chunky Soup]

That line looked god-awful. Wow.

 

[Knobs]

I'd love to hear what you think an elite talent is before that person becomes the obvious choice for elite talent in week 5 of a RBs 2nd year. So far Forte in his rookie season had 1700 combines yards and 12 TDs. This year with a new QB, new WR core, 2 new OLineman and consistent 8 in the box, putrid Oline play, he is on pace to have 1400 combined yards. The guy is 23 on top of this... He has what, maybe 6 more productive years left in him? And this doesn't make him worth a top round pick in Dynasty?

Forte is certainly worth owning in dynasty leagues. He's just not worthy of a top pick.As far as naming an elite talent who isn't considered elite yet, I'll go with Felix Jones and Jonathan Stewart.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Been saying he's a bust the whole year, then everyone came out of hiding to brag about the Detroit game and now everyone is apologizing for him. Whoever said Jim Brown couldn't run for 50 against that line in his prime is delusional. Did you really just compare Farte to Brown?

I didn't say it, but that was not a comparison. I think what the poster was getting at was that the Chicago OL is playing so poorly right now, that even a back as good as Jim Brown would have a tough time running for a lot of yards.

 

[mlball77]

I don't see Forte as an elite talent... but he has a nice, balanced skill set. That said, and as already mentioned in this thread, CHI's run blocking is atrocious right now. Forte is hit in the backfield consistently. It would be hard for any RB to produce strong rushing stats under those conditions.

Last night was a game CHI could have won if not for the Forte fumble(s) in the redzone and Cutler's INT in the redzone. Unfortunately for us Bears fans, the running game is a trainwreck right now. Cutler has to be really good if CHI is going to beat strong teams.

 

[Liquid Tension]

RBs like Forte, who excel at everything, don't come along very often.

Everything except actually running the ball well. 3 games with a 2.2 ypc or less. Another game at 3.1 ypc. Only one good game and it was vs. Detroit. And not against good run defenses save Pitt.It's ok to be wrong. I was very high on Kevin Smith this year and he's looking just as bad running the ball as well. I hope he turns it around. But I'm not going to kid myself and say he's doing well when he is just turning in game after game with average to below-average ypc and totals. Forte is doing the same thing. And the thing is, he didn't do much better last year. The year end #'s just looked better because of the huge amount of carries he had and his catches in PPR.

Except I don't believe I'm wrong. With all due respect, I find it amazing people can be so sure he's a bust after what he accomplished last year. And mostly, after what he looked like (with your eyes). I don't get it, LOL. People are simply jumping to conclusions. Also, a lot of folks forget we play FF. This won't be decided for a long time, but Forte is a virtual lock to be a good long-term FF RB, IMO. Anyway, I'm glad there are people who disagree. Like I said, it wouldn't be fun if we all thought the same thing. :X

I have to agree. I was one of the few people defending Cedric Benson against he sucks, blah blah blah. the truth is that almost everyone on these boards doesn't understand how important the team and specifically the OL is for the success of a RB. Sure, there are differences in backs and some are better than others, but the OL makes a HUGE difference in their performances. Is Cedric Benson great? No, but he is no different than Thomas Jones (I used TJ as an example in past years comparing Benson because he is a guy who I think is ordinary and has done well of late). You can't keep looking at YPC as an indicator as one huge run makes a big difference and the OL makes a huge difference. Look at TJ yesterday, he had two of the longest runs of his career and was only bumped once on both runs until tackled. How much talent was there? Steven Jackson is the best (or 2nd) all around RB in football IMO. ADP can't catch as well as he can so I think he is right there if not better. I also like that while Peterson runs ferociously and is much faster than than SJ, Jackson can move piles better in short yardage. AP was stopped twice yesterday and other times at the GL when I think SJ would have pushed the pile. My point is that SJ averages 4.1 or 4.2 carries all the time because he is on a team that is weak and has no OL. If Forte were on the Jets people would be talking about how good he is. If SJ switched places with Peterson he would be getting the accolades.

Forte doesn't have any standout skills, but he is a smooth runner with decent power and can catch very well. He isn't weak anywhere and he seems to have pretty good vision; a trait that is very much overlooked by most people because it is hard to quantify. Speaking of that, I believe AP has good vision too.