Dynasty Rankings (15 Viewers)

[thatguy]

Child please.

This discussion has turned crazy. Miles Austin has had one great game. How did Qadry Ismail do after his huge game? He's pretty good on ESPN. I mean, he was OK/solid. he wasn't as good as 85 is.

I'd be curious to see a comparison of Ocho against other WRs similar to him and how quickly they declined when they did rather than pointing out he has 3 more good years just becuase TO did. TO is a phsyical freak. A beast. Ocho is a skinny little dude IMO.

Marvin HarrisonAge 34- 1366/12

Age 35- 247/1 (5 games)

Age 36- 636/5

Joey Galloway

Age 34- 1287/10

Age 35- 1057/7

Age 36- 1014/6

Rod Smith

Age 34- 1144/7

Age 35- 1105/6

Age 36- 512/3

Jimmy Smith

Age 34- 805/4

Age 35- 1172/6

Age 36- 1023/6

Unless a guy has injury problems (Terry Glenn, Torry Holt), there's no reason to believe he won't still be playing well at 34, regardless of build or playstyle.

First of all, since when did 1350 yards become the measuring stick for stud WR? There are many paths to studliness, and of course many different thresholds of what constitutes studliness. 1350 yards is indeed tough to do for a WR, but what about 1100 yards and 10 TDs? Would you consider those studly numbers? 1200 yards and 8 TDs? I don't have an answer, as I don't really have a good idea of when we start calling a player a stud, but I do know that the barometer is not as simple as 1350 or more receiving yards = stud.

Second, you do realize you're saying odds are only one of the 54 WR's F & L has ranked after 20 will ever top 1350 yards. I see Crabtree doing it at some point, and probably often, in his career, so we're already near 2%. I think Nicks has a good chance to accomplish this at some point. Lucky for you Sims-Walker was recently bumped into the top 20, because barring injury he could very likely surpass this threshold as well (and I assume you'd have made this claim weeks ago when he was still outside the top 20). Anyway, after those two, there are none that I necessarily think have a better than even chance to accomplish this feat, but I'm sure a handful will step up and either get close to, or surpass, that mark at some point in their respective careers.

ETA: What I'm saying is, let's see you put your money where your mouth is. I get the current 54 player field, and I say that 2 or more of those players will top 1350 receiving yards at some point in their respective careers. So as not to make this bet last forever, let's give it 7 years. If 1 or less top 1350, you win. If 2 or more top 1350, I win.

No, if a WR's best season is 1100/10, he's not a stud. If his best season is 1200/8, he's not a stud.Second, it's not "lucky" for me that Sims-Walker is in the top 20. I looked at F&L's rankings and I set an arbitrary breakpoint. How is it "luck" that a certain player fell above that breakpoint? If I didn't think Sims-Walker had a decent (read: better than 2%) chance at 1350, I would have set the breakpoint at 19 instead of 20. I was tempted to set it at 25 instead of 20 just to get Crabtree and Nicks off the table, but I decided to keep it high to make things a bit more interesting, and to demonstrate that even elite prospects like those two are incredibly unlikely to ever achieve that lofty heights at which Ochocinco currently resides. It's a very high threshold.

Third, when Kremenull tried to make me a bet that Pryor would be a better professional football player than Tebow, I made a long post about how absurd it was to have bets in perpetuity (or as good as in perpetuity) with strangers over the internet. Do you think either of us will remember or care about this conversation a year from now, to say nothing of seven?

Fourth, maybe 2% is a little low. Let's call it 4%, instead. Or change it to 2% will ever achieve more than one 1350 yard season to weed out the Muhsin Muhammad-like flukes. Does either one alter my point at all, or are we just arguing semantics?

I will

 

[gorf]

I know this is probably an AC question but this is a recent dynasty trade I wanted to get opinions on. It is a PPR DYNASTY league and TD's are 6 for everyone. You also start 3 WR's. I know it's tough to judge without seeing teams but in value alone how do you guys see this?ETA: This trade was already completed - this is just a value questionTeam A gets:McNabbMike WallaceMendenhall2010 2nd round pick (hoping it's late)2011 3rdTeam B getsBradyB. ScottWelker2010 4th 2011 4th

i like what team B is getting better

 

[thatguy]

Child please.

This discussion has turned crazy. Miles Austin has had one great game. How did Qadry Ismail do after his huge game? He's pretty good on ESPN. I mean, he was OK/solid. he wasn't as good as 85 is.

I'd be curious to see a comparison of Ocho against other WRs similar to him and how quickly they declined when they did rather than pointing out he has 3 more good years just becuase TO did. TO is a phsyical freak. A beast. Ocho is a skinny little dude IMO.

Marvin HarrisonAge 34- 1366/12

Age 35- 247/1 (5 games)

Age 36- 636/5

Joey Galloway

Age 34- 1287/10

Age 35- 1057/7

Age 36- 1014/6

Rod Smith

Age 34- 1144/7

Age 35- 1105/6

Age 36- 512/3

Jimmy Smith

Age 34- 805/4

Age 35- 1172/6

Age 36- 1023/6

Unless a guy has injury problems (Terry Glenn, Torry Holt), there's no reason to believe he won't still be playing well at 34, regardless of build or playstyle.

First of all, since when did 1350 yards become the measuring stick for stud WR? There are many paths to studliness, and of course many different thresholds of what constitutes studliness. 1350 yards is indeed tough to do for a WR, but what about 1100 yards and 10 TDs? Would you consider those studly numbers? 1200 yards and 8 TDs? I don't have an answer, as I don't really have a good idea of when we start calling a player a stud, but I do know that the barometer is not as simple as 1350 or more receiving yards = stud.

Second, you do realize you're saying odds are only one of the 54 WR's F & L has ranked after 20 will ever top 1350 yards. I see Crabtree doing it at some point, and probably often, in his career, so we're already near 2%. I think Nicks has a good chance to accomplish this at some point. Lucky for you Sims-Walker was recently bumped into the top 20, because barring injury he could very likely surpass this threshold as well (and I assume you'd have made this claim weeks ago when he was still outside the top 20). Anyway, after those two, there are none that I necessarily think have a better than even chance to accomplish this feat, but I'm sure a handful will step up and either get close to, or surpass, that mark at some point in their respective careers.

ETA: What I'm saying is, let's see you put your money where your mouth is. I get the current 54 player field, and I say that 2 or more of those players will top 1350 receiving yards at some point in their respective careers. So as not to make this bet last forever, let's give it 7 years. If 1 or less top 1350, you win. If 2 or more top 1350, I win.

No, if a WR's best season is 1100/10, he's not a stud. If his best season is 1200/8, he's not a stud.Second, it's not "lucky" for me that Sims-Walker is in the top 20. I looked at F&L's rankings and I set an arbitrary breakpoint. How is it "luck" that a certain player fell above that breakpoint? If I didn't think Sims-Walker had a decent (read: better than 2%) chance at 1350, I would have set the breakpoint at 19 instead of 20. I was tempted to set it at 25 instead of 20 just to get Crabtree and Nicks off the table, but I decided to keep it high to make things a bit more interesting, and to demonstrate that even elite prospects like those two are incredibly unlikely to ever achieve that lofty heights at which Ochocinco currently resides. It's a very high threshold.

Third, when Kremenull tried to make me a bet that Pryor would be a better professional football player than Tebow, I made a long post about how absurd it was to have bets in perpetuity (or as good as in perpetuity) with strangers over the internet. Do you think either of us will remember or care about this conversation a year from now, to say nothing of seven?

Fourth, maybe 2% is a little low. Let's call it 4%, instead. Or change it to 2% will ever achieve more than one 1350 yard season to weed out the Muhsin Muhammad-like flukes. Does either one alter my point at all, or are we just arguing semantics?

I will

Also, the way you worded your proclamation originally made it seem more arbitrary than you're now claiming it to be, hence my calling it lucky that your list of players did not include Sims-Walker.You said something like, "That's why they're not in the top 20," which sounds like something you were just as likely to say a month ago as you are today - you made it sound as though 20 was some generic cutoff rather than one that you picked carefully.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

Josh Cribbs is another. I've got him rostered in several Zealots leagues and, while no one would say "wow" when I plug him in as a starter, he's a very servicable WR #3/4 when I need a bye week/injury filler. Zealots awards points for return yardage (.25 per 10, IIRC) in addition to rushing/receiving yards. Cribbs is averaging about 9 ppg overall, which is better than a nail in your foot. Many times you can get these kind of guys as throw-ins to balance trades out and they'll give you "hidden" points.

I don't view Josh Cribbs as a receiver. Last year he was a runningback, this year he's a receiver, sometimes he plays wildcat... I really just view him as a returner who happens to be getting some odd offensive snaps because Cleveland simply doesn't have any weapons on offense. He's more Dante Hall (a returner who happens to play receiver) than Steve Breaston (a receiver who happens to return kicks). If your league rewards return yardage, then he might remain a quality play, but my high opinion of Royal/Breaston/Hester is based SOLELY on their receiving prowess. In leagues that reward return yardage, I like them better still. In my league that counts punt returns the same as receptions, Hester and Breaston are already both top 10 in PPG.

Agreed. The reason I brought him up is that he's listed as a WR, no matter how much he actually plays there, and so can be put in a FF lineup as one. I wasn't necessarily trying to compare his WR skills to those you mentioned; it was more that there's points out there to be had on the cheap - 9 PPG in a non-PPR isn't bad if you're in a pinch.

BTW, and this isn't any kind of "gotcha!" post, Cribbs is ahead of all 3 you listed in non-ppr scoring where return yards are counted (Zealots scoring):Cribbs - #21 WR 54.66 pts

Hester - #29 WR 46.75 pts

Breaston - #35 WR 41,95 pts

Royal - #36 WR 40.96 pts

All are at least considering as startable.

Add 1 ppr and we have (don't have the overall rankings here):

Hester - 66.75 pts

Breaston - 64.95 pts

Cribbs - 63.66 pts

Royal - 58.96 pts

My point is not that Cribbs is a better WR than the others (he's not, IMO), but that he scores as well as they do, is listed as a WR, & can probably be had cheaper than the others.

 

[hostile]

I've been trying to finagle DeAngelo Williams away from the owner in our league. He was asking a LOT, but just recently has come down to Williams for Jennings and my 2010 1st round.

From my point of view, Jennings has another 8-10 years in the league with one of the best, young QBs chucking him the rock. Williams otoh, has done nothing noteworthy short of weeks 8-16 of last year, and week 6 of this year. Further to that, with DeWill being 27 at the start of next season, his window of production is dwarfed by that of Jennings.

I know some people are not high on Jennings, but it seems to me that Jennings + a 1st is overpaying.

Thoughts?

 

[gheemony]

Went out and acquired Santonio Holmes and Greg Jennings in a contract keeper league, which allows me to keep these guys for three seasons. I think of them much like F&L: Jennings is a Tier 2, WR1. Holmes is in the next tier below.

I got them for a good price because they have underperformed. I think they are talented and young and in good situations. So I am excited about adding them to an already deep WR corp.

Anyone have a contrary opinion? I think SSOG or EBF posted that they thought that Jennings was not a WR1. Would love to hear thoughts. Hopefully, the thoughts are helpful to others, as I think these two are great buy low candidates.

 

[sterjs]

I know this is probably an AC question but this is a recent dynasty trade I wanted to get opinions on. It is a PPR DYNASTY league and TD's are 6 for everyone. You also start 3 WR's. I know it's tough to judge without seeing teams but in value alone how do you guys see this?

I like team b's side by a lot.

 

[belljr]

I know this is probably an AC question but this is a recent dynasty trade I wanted to get opinions on. It is a PPR DYNASTY league and TD's are 6 for everyone. You also start 3 WR's. I know it's tough to judge without seeing teams but in value alone how do you guys see this?

I like team b's side by a lot.

Thanks. I have strength now at QB and WR AJ, Welker, Boldin, Housh.RB are good for this year and maybe next. I made the move to try and win now, been close the past couple years.[/hijack]

 

[Tau837]

I've been trying to finagle DeAngelo Williams away from the owner in our league. He was asking a LOT, but just recently has come down to Williams for Jennings and my 2010 1st round.

From my point of view, Jennings has another 8-10 years in the league with one of the best, young QBs chucking him the rock. Williams otoh, has done nothing noteworthy short of weeks 8-16 of last year, and week 6 of this year. Further to that, with DeWill being 27 at the start of next season, his window of production is dwarfed by that of Jennings.

I know some people are not high on Jennings, but it seems to me that Jennings + a 1st is overpaying.

Thoughts?

It depends upon the rest of your roster, lineup requirements, and where you think that first round pick will end up... but without knowing all of that, I'd definitely pay that for Williams. That said, I am a Williams owner and I'm pretty high on him as a dynasty player.

 

[Homer]

I think that guy Austin needs to be bumped above Roy W.

 

[THE UNDERCOVER BROTHA]

I think that guy Austin needs to be bumped above Roy W.

Really.....Im SOOOOO glad i hung onto him. The sharks were swirling....

 

[D'OHtis]

There's little doubt Austin should be above Roy. Whether he's a long term #1, that's another debate.

Better hands, better after the catch, better route runner, better underneath, better over the top. Owners have the Chambers/Edwards disease with Roy [hanging far too long onto guys based on 1 great season]. Roy, even with weight loss, is very very slow out of his breaks.

 

[editor47]

There's little doubt Austin should be above Roy. Whether he's a long term #1, that's another debate.Better hands, better after the catch, better route runner, better underneath, better over the top. Owners have the Chambers/Edwards disease with Roy [hanging far too long onto guys based on 1 great season]. Roy, even with weight loss, is very very slow out of his breaks.

the cowboys made a brutal mistake with williams. and jerry jones won't admit it. crayton and austin should be the starters. they actually catch the ball

 

[EBF]

Went out and acquired Santonio Holmes and Greg Jennings in a contract keeper league, which allows me to keep these guys for three seasons. I think of them much like F&L: Jennings is a Tier 2, WR1. Holmes is in the next tier below.I got them for a good price because they have underperformed. I think they are talented and young and in good situations. So I am excited about adding them to an already deep WR corp.Anyone have a contrary opinion? I think SSOG or EBF posted that they thought that Jennings was not a WR1. Would love to hear thoughts. Hopefully, the thoughts are helpful to others, as I think these two are great buy low candidates.

I like both of them. I overrated Jennings in the offseason, but I still think he's a quality player who's better than his stats would indicate.

 

[editor47]

the more i watch mike wallace the more i think he's going to wind up taking a huge chunk out of santonio holmes' value.

 

[MountainMan0726]

Which ONE to grab and stash in a long-term Dynasty, and why? I have a free roster spot.

-Malcolm Floyd

-James Jones

-Andre Caldwell

-Jacoby Jones

-Pierre Garcon

 

[EBF]

-James Jones-Andre Caldwell

It has to be one of these two. Both have played pretty well in limited duty and both have the potential to become full-time starters in the near future.

 

[THE UNDERCOVER BROTHA]

-James Jones-Andre Caldwell

It has to be one of these two. Both have played pretty well in limited duty and both have the potential to become full-time starters in the near future.

Big James Jones fan but i would go Caldwell....Palmer looks so comfortable with him. And he is #2 in targets on that team behind Ocho.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

-James Jones-Andre Caldwell

It has to be one of these two. Both have played pretty well in limited duty and both have the potential to become full-time starters in the near future.

I like both of those guys, but Jacoby Jones has to be in the mix as well. His playmaking ability is sick. He's back on the coaching staff's good side after an apparent epiphany this past offseason, and he has 3 TDs on 8 receptions. He also has a kickoff return for a TD and had a punt return TD wiped out by a penalty yesterday. He's a threat to take it to the house every time he touches the ball ... and a threat to Kevin Walter's job in the future. Not to mention, if you use SSOG's theory about successful punt returners, Jones' has a very bright future.

 

[hostile]

-James Jones

-Andre Caldwell

It has to be one of these two. Both have played pretty well in limited duty and both have the potential to become full-time starters in the near future.

I like both of those guys, but Jacoby Jones has to be in the mix as well. His playmaking ability is sick. He's back on the coaching staff's good side after an apparent epiphany this past offseason, and he has 3 TDs on 8 receptions. He also has a kickoff return for a TD and had a punt return TD wiped out by a penalty yesterday. He's a threat to take it to the house every time he touches the ball ... and a threat to Kevin Walter's job in the future. Not to mention, if you use SSOG's theory about successful punt returners, Jones' has a very bright future.

So where does that leave Cribbs if Cle can get their act together?

 

[corpcow]

Which ONE to grab and stash in a long-term Dynasty, and why? I have a free roster spot. -Malcolm Floyd-James Jones-Andre Caldwell-Jacoby Jones-Pierre Garcon

If you're focused on long-term upside vs. ability to contribute today, I would go with Malcolm. Given his size, ability and what he's shown in limited opportunities, i think he has the best chance to be an NFL WR1. He's an RFA next year so will likely have an opportunity to start either in SD or elsewhere. Garcon, James and Jacoby all have great physical tools too and are in good passing offenses, but I think they will have more long-term competition for their opportunity. For Garcon, Wayne is still relatively young, Anthony Gonzalez will be coming back soon, and Collie will be involved too. James Jones has looked good, but I'm also high on Jordy long-term and I also think Driver still looks great and will be around logner than some thing. Jacoby has shown glipses but he's the longest shot here. Bubba Caldwell is a good candidate too - and may have more opportunity sooner, and clearly has Palmer's eye - but I still like Floyd better there long term.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

Which ONE to grab and stash in a long-term Dynasty, and why? I have a free roster spot. -Malcolm Floyd-James Jones-Andre Caldwell-Jacoby Jones-Pierre Garcon

If you're focused on long-term upside vs. ability to contribute today, I would go with Malcolm. Given his size, ability and what he's shown in limited opportunities, i think he has the best chance to be an NFL WR1. He's an RFA next year so will likely have an opportunity to start either in SD or elsewhere. Garcon, James and Jacoby all have great physical tools too and are in good passing offenses, but I think they will have more long-term competition for their opportunity. For Garcon, Wayne is still relatively young, Anthony Gonzalez will be coming back soon, and Collie will be involved too. James Jones has looked good, but I'm also high on Jordy long-term and I also think Driver still looks great and will be around logner than some thing. Jacoby has shown glipses but he's the longest shot here. Bubba Caldwell is a good candidate too - and may have more opportunity sooner, and clearly has Palmer's eye - but I still like Floyd better there long term.

Floyd is the obvious fifth on that list to me. He's a role player.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

-James Jones

-Andre Caldwell

It has to be one of these two. Both have played pretty well in limited duty and both have the potential to become full-time starters in the near future.

I like both of those guys, but Jacoby Jones has to be in the mix as well. His playmaking ability is sick. He's back on the coaching staff's good side after an apparent epiphany this past offseason, and he has 3 TDs on 8 receptions. He also has a kickoff return for a TD and had a punt return TD wiped out by a penalty yesterday. He's a threat to take it to the house every time he touches the ball ... and a threat to Kevin Walter's job in the future. Not to mention, if you use SSOG's theory about successful punt returners, Jones' has a very bright future.

So where does that leave Cribbs if Cle can get their act together?

Cribbs is a different animal altogether. His natural college position was quarterback, and he's played very little receiver at the NFL level. His natural NFL position is simply special teams bada##. He's even a gunner in addition to return duties. I don't think he'll ever have much fantasy value beyond return leagues.

 

[corpcow]

Which ONE to grab and stash in a long-term Dynasty, and why? I have a free roster spot. -Malcolm Floyd-James Jones-Andre Caldwell-Jacoby Jones-Pierre Garcon

If you're focused on long-term upside vs. ability to contribute today, I would go with Malcolm. Given his size, ability and what he's shown in limited opportunities, i think he has the best chance to be an NFL WR1. He's an RFA next year so will likely have an opportunity to start either in SD or elsewhere. Garcon, James and Jacoby all have great physical tools too and are in good passing offenses, but I think they will have more long-term competition for their opportunity. For Garcon, Wayne is still relatively young, Anthony Gonzalez will be coming back soon, and Collie will be involved too. James Jones has looked good, but I'm also high on Jordy long-term and I also think Driver still looks great and will be around logner than some thing. Jacoby has shown glipses but he's the longest shot here. Bubba Caldwell is a good candidate too - and may have more opportunity sooner, and clearly has Palmer's eye - but I still like Floyd better there long term.

Floyd is the obvious fifth on that list to me. He's a role player.

To me, Floyd has always been held back because of lack of opportunity. When I'm evaluating dynasty talents and looking at upside, I think about who would/could do most with if the opportunity comes around. In Floyd's case, I think he has looked great when given the chance, I think he has the physical tools and has been clutch when given the chance. (Bloom always makes the Colston comparison here).Granted, I may be overvaluing him - and I'm not sure I would rank him ABOVE those other guys on an absolute scale - but I think he has the most upside. For what it's worth, I felt and talked the same way this offseason about Sidney Rice and Miles Austin, both of whom might have been considered "role players" before the season.

 

[thatguy]

Which ONE to grab and stash in a long-term Dynasty, and why? I have a free roster spot. -Malcolm Floyd-James Jones-Andre Caldwell-Jacoby Jones-Pierre Garcon

If you're focused on long-term upside vs. ability to contribute today, I would go with Malcolm. Given his size, ability and what he's shown in limited opportunities, i think he has the best chance to be an NFL WR1. He's an RFA next year so will likely have an opportunity to start either in SD or elsewhere. Garcon, James and Jacoby all have great physical tools too and are in good passing offenses, but I think they will have more long-term competition for their opportunity. For Garcon, Wayne is still relatively young, Anthony Gonzalez will be coming back soon, and Collie will be involved too. James Jones has looked good, but I'm also high on Jordy long-term and I also think Driver still looks great and will be around logner than some thing. Jacoby has shown glipses but he's the longest shot here. Bubba Caldwell is a good candidate too - and may have more opportunity sooner, and clearly has Palmer's eye - but I still like Floyd better there long term.

Floyd is the obvious fifth on that list to me. He's a role player.

To me, Floyd has always been held back because of lack of opportunity. When I'm evaluating dynasty talents and looking at upside, I think about who would/could do most with if the opportunity comes around. In Floyd's case, I think he has looked great when given the chance, I think he has the physical tools and has been clutch when given the chance. (Bloom always makes the Colston comparison here).Granted, I may be overvaluing him - and I'm not sure I would rank him ABOVE those other guys on an absolute scale - but I think he has the most upside. For what it's worth, I felt and talked the same way this offseason about Sidney Rice and Miles Austin, both of whom might have been considered "role players" before the season.

I too am pretty high on Floyd. He just seems to make plays every chance he gets.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

For what it's worth, I felt and talked the same way this offseason about Sidney Rice and Miles Austin, both of whom might have been considered "role players" before the season.

I was high on these guys in the offseason as well. I just don't think Malcom Floyd is in their class.

 

[tonka]

F&L - What are your thoughts on Ray Rice?

He's a guy who has obviously garnered a lot of discussion around here. Is it safe to say that he will get a significant bump up in the next RB rankings to go up on your blog? The last rankings were posted before Rice "broke out" against the Vikings. Is he now competing with guys like Steven Jackson at the top of tier 2 or is it too early to say?

 

[hostile]

Which ONE to grab and stash in a long-term Dynasty, and why? I have a free roster spot. -Malcolm Floyd-James Jones-Andre Caldwell-Jacoby Jones-Pierre Garcon

If you're focused on long-term upside vs. ability to contribute today, I would go with Malcolm. Given his size, ability and what he's shown in limited opportunities, i think he has the best chance to be an NFL WR1. He's an RFA next year so will likely have an opportunity to start either in SD or elsewhere. Garcon, James and Jacoby all have great physical tools too and are in good passing offenses, but I think they will have more long-term competition for their opportunity. For Garcon, Wayne is still relatively young, Anthony Gonzalez will be coming back soon, and Collie will be involved too. James Jones has looked good, but I'm also high on Jordy long-term and I also think Driver still looks great and will be around logner than some thing. Jacoby has shown glipses but he's the longest shot here. Bubba Caldwell is a good candidate too - and may have more opportunity sooner, and clearly has Palmer's eye - but I still like Floyd better there long term.

Floyd is the obvious fifth on that list to me. He's a role player.

To me, Floyd has always been held back because of lack of opportunity. When I'm evaluating dynasty talents and looking at upside, I think about who would/could do most with if the opportunity comes around. In Floyd's case, I think he has looked great when given the chance, I think he has the physical tools and has been clutch when given the chance. (Bloom always makes the Colston comparison here).Granted, I may be overvaluing him - and I'm not sure I would rank him ABOVE those other guys on an absolute scale - but I think he has the most upside. For what it's worth, I felt and talked the same way this offseason about Sidney Rice and Miles Austin, both of whom might have been considered "role players" before the season.

I too am pretty high on Floyd. He just seems to make plays every chance he gets.

Malcolm Floyd is 28 and has been in the league 5 years now. I would think that if he was the answer, he would have accepted the call a while ago.

 

[travdogg]

F&L - What are your thoughts on Ray Rice?He's a guy who has obviously garnered a lot of discussion around here. Is it safe to say that he will get a significant bump up in the next RB rankings to go up on your blog? The last rankings were posted before Rice "broke out" against the Vikings. Is he now competing with guys like Steven Jackson at the top of tier 2 or is it too early to say?

Personally, I think its way too premature to move him up that high. He's probably earned a spot at the tail end of tier 2, but I think he has a lot more to prove before he passes guys like Gore and Brown.

 

[EBF]

Malcolm Floyd is 28 and has been in the league 5 years now. I would think that if he was the answer, he would have accepted the call a while ago.

I agree with this. Also, it's not like Chris Chambers has been setting the league on fire recently. Surely the Chargers would like an upgrade at WR2. If Floyd is so good, why can't he win that job?

 

[EBF]

F&L - What are your thoughts on Ray Rice?He's a guy who has obviously garnered a lot of discussion around here. Is it safe to say that he will get a significant bump up in the next RB rankings to go up on your blog? The last rankings were posted before Rice "broke out" against the Vikings. Is he now competing with guys like Steven Jackson at the top of tier 2 or is it too early to say?

Personally, I think its way too premature to move him up that high. He's probably earned a spot at the tail end of tier 2, but I think he has a lot more to prove before he passes guys like Gore and Brown.

Well I have Gore and Brown in dynasty leagues and I think I would take Rice over either of them. It's possible that his early results are a mirage, but I liked him quite a bit out of college and he looks to be the next MJD/Westbrook type back. I think I would take him over some good veteran RBs with knee issues in their pasts. I think you can make a strong argument either way. Owners who value proven commodities will probably favor the vets and owners who value speculative commodities will probably favor Rice.

 

[corpcow]

Malcolm Floyd is 28 and has been in the league 5 years now. I would think that if he was the answer, he would have accepted the call a while ago.

I agree with this. Also, it's not like Chris Chambers has been setting the league on fire recently. Surely the Chargers would like an upgrade at WR2. If Floyd is so good, why can't he win that job?

Who knows - maybe the price they paid for him, the contract, whatever. All I know is when I watch Floyd he looks the part, and he has made plays when given the opportunity. He has great hands, makes great adjustments to the ball, and really attacks the ball when it's in the air. It does seem like Chambers (who is in the last year of his contract) is being phased out somewhat with Nannee (a converted TE) and Floyd getting more work - and Floyd does have more receptions and yards this year. Maybe I'm overvaluing him, but he's just one of those guys I have a feeling about. I see great physical tools and good performance in very limited opportunities. He's one of those guys who I think will get a shot (in SD or elsewhere) and who I think will excel in a full-time role. As for being in the league 5 yrs, you also have to consider that he was an undrafted FA buried on the depth chart with a lot of talented guys (including Gates and LT) competing for targets and opportunities and spent 2 yrs on the practice squad. He earned his opportunities. For what it's worth, Miles Austin was also an undrafted WR who is now in his fourth year. He didn't beat out Roy Williams or Patrick Crayton either... and it was only when he got an expanded role due to injury that he was able to really sieze it.

 

[thatguy]

Malcolm Floyd is 28 and has been in the league 5 years now. I would think that if he was the answer, he would have accepted the call a while ago.

I agree with this. Also, it's not like Chris Chambers has been setting the league on fire recently. Surely the Chargers would like an upgrade at WR2. If Floyd is so good, why can't he win that job?

Who knows - maybe the price they paid for him, the contract, whatever. All I know is when I watch Floyd he looks the part, and he has made plays when given the opportunity. He has great hands, makes great adjustments to the ball, and really attacks the ball when it's in the air. It does seem like Chambers (who is in the last year of his contract) is being phased out somewhat with Nannee (a converted TE) and Floyd getting more work - and Floyd does have more receptions and yards this year. Maybe I'm overvaluing him, but he's just one of those guys I have a feeling about. I see great physical tools and good performance in very limited opportunities. He's one of those guys who I think will get a shot (in SD or elsewhere) and who I think will excel in a full-time role. As for being in the league 5 yrs, you also have to consider that he was an undrafted FA buried on the depth chart with a lot of talented guys (including Gates and LT) competing for targets and opportunities and spent 2 yrs on the practice squad. He earned his opportunities. For what it's worth, Miles Austin was also an undrafted WR who is now in his fourth year. He didn't beat out Roy Williams or Patrick Crayton either... and it was only when he got an expanded role due to injury that he was able to really sieze it.

5 years in the league aside, he has looked very good this season when given the opportunity to make plays. There are many different roads to stardom, or if not stardom, in the very least relevance - fantasy, real NFL, or otherwise.

 

[fsufan]

well I have decided to move LT(with sporles) asking for a RB in return. surprisingly I have some interest.

right now i have email offers, no offer thru the system, trading opens back up tonight at 11.

i am targeting owners that are in a win now stag, that might need a RB to put their team over the top, owners that think LT has some gas left in the tank

young RBs that have a lot of potential, like McCoy, Stewart, Green, mendenhall, moreno.

It is tough to move LT b/c my team is in a win now stage(starting line up with out LT- cutler, barber, sjax, gore, Wayne, r. moss and bowe) but I feel he is done and I need to get something for him.

got this email offer

LT and sporles for Stewart and another player( maybe Portis or a WR)

another owner emailed me and said he will send an offer once trading opens back up. his RB are ADP(i know he is not going to offer him), mendenhall, moreno, Thomas, McCoy. this owner has 3 young RBs that I am interested in- mendenhall, Moreno and McCoy. I am not sure who is going to offer but if it is Thomas I will reject. if he offers one of the other 3 who would you want. I like Moreno. but I have a feeling he will offer Thomas or McCoy

if you could move LT for a young rookie RB or 2nd year RB who would you target?

 

[Tau837]

Malcolm Floyd is 28 and has been in the league 5 years now. I would think that if he was the answer, he would have accepted the call a while ago.

I agree with this. Also, it's not like Chris Chambers has been setting the league on fire recently. Surely the Chargers would like an upgrade at WR2. If Floyd is so good, why can't he win that job?

I think Floyd will be starting over Chambers very soon, and then we'll see how he does in that role for the rest of the season. That said, the starting #2 WR for San Diego nowadays will tend to have limited value given the presence of all the other targets (Jackson, Gates, LT, Sproles, Naanee, Chambers/Floyd). I have been higher on Floyd than most people around here and picked him up a couple weeks ago and plan to sit on him this year to see how this plays out.Last season, Floyd was on the verge of a late season breakout when he got knocked out for the season by injury. And staying healthy has been a problem for him. But he sure is productive in the limited opportunities he has had to date. I think if he is given enough opportunity, he has the talent to be a really good player.

 

[Anthony Borbely]

LT and sporles for Stewart and another player( maybe Portis or a WR)another owner emailed me and said he will send an offer once trading opens back up. his RB are ADP(i know he is not going to offer him), mendenhall, moreno, Thomas, McCoy. this owner has 3 young RBs that I am interested in- mendenhall, Moreno and McCoy. I am not sure who is going to offer but if it is Thomas I will reject. if he offers one of the other 3 who would you want. I like Moreno. but I have a feeling he will offer Thomas or McCoyif you could move LT for a young rookie RB or 2nd year RB who would you target?

I would be all over the Stewart trade.

 

[Tau837]

Malcolm Floyd is 28 and has been in the league 5 years now. I would think that if he was the answer, he would have accepted the call a while ago.

I agree with this. Also, it's not like Chris Chambers has been setting the league on fire recently. Surely the Chargers would like an upgrade at WR2. If Floyd is so good, why can't he win that job?

Who knows - maybe the price they paid for him, the contract, whatever. All I know is when I watch Floyd he looks the part, and he has made plays when given the opportunity. He has great hands, makes great adjustments to the ball, and really attacks the ball when it's in the air. It does seem like Chambers (who is in the last year of his contract) is being phased out somewhat with Nannee (a converted TE) and Floyd getting more work - and Floyd does have more receptions and yards this year. Maybe I'm overvaluing him, but he's just one of those guys I have a feeling about. I see great physical tools and good performance in very limited opportunities. He's one of those guys who I think will get a shot (in SD or elsewhere) and who I think will excel in a full-time role. As for being in the league 5 yrs, you also have to consider that he was an undrafted FA buried on the depth chart with a lot of talented guys (including Gates and LT) competing for targets and opportunities and spent 2 yrs on the practice squad. He earned his opportunities. For what it's worth, Miles Austin was also an undrafted WR who is now in his fourth year. He didn't beat out Roy Williams or Patrick Crayton either... and it was only when he got an expanded role due to injury that he was able to really sieze it.

5 years in the league aside, he has looked very good this season when given the opportunity to make plays. There are many different roads to stardom, or if not stardom, in the very least relevance - fantasy, real NFL, or otherwise.

to both thatguy and corpcow. And it isn't just this year that Floyd has looked good when given an opportunity. Last season, he had 27/465/4 (17.2 ypr) on just 37 targets.

 

[fsufan]

LT and sporles for Stewart and another player( maybe Portis or a WR)another owner emailed me and said he will send an offer once trading opens back up. his RB are ADP(i know he is not going to offer him), mendenhall, Moreno, Thomas, McCoy. this owner has 3 young RBs that I am interested in- mendenhall, Moreno and McCoy. I am not sure who is going to offer but if it is Thomas I will reject. if he offers one of the other 3 who would you want. I like Moreno. but I have a feeling he will offer Thomas or McCoyif you could move LT for a young rookie RB or 2nd year RB who would you target?

I would be all over the Stewart trade.

that is the direction I am leaning. I would take Moreno(if offered) over Stewart

 

[thatguy]

LT and sporles for Stewart and another player( maybe Portis or a WR)another owner emailed me and said he will send an offer once trading opens back up. his RB are ADP(i know he is not going to offer him), mendenhall, Moreno, Thomas, McCoy. this owner has 3 young RBs that I am interested in- mendenhall, Moreno and McCoy. I am not sure who is going to offer but if it is Thomas I will reject. if he offers one of the other 3 who would you want. I like Moreno. but I have a feeling he will offer Thomas or McCoyif you could move LT for a young rookie RB or 2nd year RB who would you target?

I would be all over the Stewart trade.

that is the direction I am leaning. I would take Moreno(if offered) over Stewart

Moreno, barring a DWill injury, definitely has more value for the remainder of this season, and possibly next season. But if you have the depth to wait on Stewart, I would prefer him. Moreno is a very talented RB and in a great situation with a coach who loves him, but Stewart's talent is on another level.

 

[gheemony]

well I have decided to move LT(with sporles) asking for a RB in return. surprisingly I have some interest. right now i have email offers, no offer thru the system, trading opens back up tonight at 11.i am targeting owners that are in a win now stag, that might need a RB to put their team over the top, owners that think LT has some gas left in the tank young RBs that have a lot of potential, like McCoy, Stewart, Green, mendenhall, moreno. It is tough to move LT b/c my team is in a win now stage(starting line up with out LT- cutler, barber, sjax, gore, Wayne, r. moss and bowe) but I feel he is done and I need to get something for him. got this email offerLT and sporles for Stewart and another player( maybe Portis or a WR)another owner emailed me and said he will send an offer once trading opens back up. his RB are ADP(i know he is not going to offer him), mendenhall, moreno, Thomas, McCoy. this owner has 3 young RBs that I am interested in- mendenhall, Moreno and McCoy. I am not sure who is going to offer but if it is Thomas I will reject. if he offers one of the other 3 who would you want. I like Moreno. but I have a feeling he will offer Thomas or McCoyif you could move LT for a young rookie RB or 2nd year RB who would you target?

If you're really win now, you'd trade LT very quickly. I seriously doubt that he will help you win your league this year and would bet that he's likely to be on your bench during the playoffs. Trade him while you can. The real decision is whether to trade for a player that helps you win this year or a piece that helps you in the future. Don't overthink it. Just take the best offer you get this week. This is the week to sell LT.

 

[gheemony]

Went out and acquired Santonio Holmes and Greg Jennings in a contract keeper league, which allows me to keep these guys for three seasons. I think of them much like F&L: Jennings is a Tier 2, WR1. Holmes is in the next tier below.I got them for a good price because they have underperformed. I think they are talented and young and in good situations. So I am excited about adding them to an already deep WR corp.Anyone have a contrary opinion? I think SSOG or EBF posted that they thought that Jennings was not a WR1. Would love to hear thoughts. Hopefully, the thoughts are helpful to others, as I think these two are great buy low candidates.

I like both of them. I overrated Jennings in the offseason, but I still think he's a quality player who's better than his stats would indicate.

Thanks. Thought I was getting help this season too, but Welker outscored Holmes and Jennings combined.

 

[Magic Man]

LT and sporles for Stewart and another player( maybe Portis or a WR)another owner emailed me and said he will send an offer once trading opens back up. his RB are ADP(i know he is not going to offer him), mendenhall, Moreno, Thomas, McCoy. this owner has 3 young RBs that I am interested in- mendenhall, Moreno and McCoy. I am not sure who is going to offer but if it is Thomas I will reject. if he offers one of the other 3 who would you want. I like Moreno. but I have a feeling he will offer Thomas or McCoyif you could move LT for a young rookie RB or 2nd year RB who would you target?

I would be all over the Stewart trade.

that is the direction I am leaning. I would take Moreno(if offered) over Stewart

Moreno, barring a DWill injury, definitely has more value for the remainder of this season, and possibly next season. But if you have the depth to wait on Stewart, I would prefer him. Moreno is a very talented RB and in a great situation with a coach who loves him, but Stewart's talent is on another level.

If I had a team that could wait on Stewart, I would definitely want him over Moreno too. Seriously that dude is a beast! I wish D-Will wasn't playing as well as he is playing, so J-Stew could get more work to shine.

 

[SSOG]

You said something like, "That's why they're not in the top 20," which sounds like something you were just as likely to say a month ago as you are today - you made it sound as though 20 was some generic cutoff rather than one that you picked carefully.

I can see how it would seem that way, definitely, but I more meant it as a "that's why they're not ranked higher". You could probably come up with an argument or a scenario why any WR in the top 60 is a dynasty uberstud who is about to put up an unreal season, but in the end, the odds of it actually happening are incredibly slim in almost all cases... and in the cases where the odds aren't slim, the WR in question is valued a lot higher.It gets back to the philosophy F&L is always espousing of always trying to trade several players for fewer players of a higher quality. Everyone has upside, but the guys who look likely to actually reach theirs are rare and to be treasured.

BTW, and this isn't any kind of "gotcha!" post, Cribbs is ahead of all 3 you listed in non-ppr scoring where return yards are counted (Zealots scoring):Cribbs - #21 WR 54.66 ptsHester - #29 WR 46.75 ptsBreaston - #35 WR 41,95 ptsRoyal - #36 WR 40.96 ptsAll are at least considering as startable.Add 1 ppr and we have (don't have the overall rankings here):Hester - 66.75 ptsBreaston - 64.95 ptsCribbs - 63.66 ptsRoyal - 58.96 ptsMy point is not that Cribbs is a better WR than the others (he's not, IMO), but that he scores as well as they do, is listed as a WR, & can probably be had cheaper than the others.

That wasn't the point I was making, though. I wasn't saying "hey, grab WRs who do returns in leagues that reward return yardage because they're sneaky plays", I was saying "hey, grab WRs who do returns in leagues that DON'T reward return yardage because I think return skills translate well to the WR position and they could easily wind up becoming quality starters on the strength of their receiving stats alone". IMO, Cribbs doesn't fit that mold, since he's not really a WR. He's definitely a valuable commodity in return yardage leagues, though.

Anyone have a contrary opinion? I think SSOG or EBF posted that they thought that Jennings was not a WR1. Would love to hear thoughts. Hopefully, the thoughts are helpful to others, as I think these two are great buy low candidates.

Greg Jennings is a bit too one-dimensional for my tastes, and I'm making an effort to learn my lesson after I was so high on Santonio Holmes and Lee Evans (who are also a lot more one-dimensional than other "comparable" talents). I see Jennings looking more like Lee Evans and Santonio Holmes going forward than Roddy White and Chad Ochocinco. It's not to say that Jennings is a bad player, it's just that he's a player whose perceived value is higher than what I believe his actual value to be.

So where does that leave Cribbs if Cle can get their act together?

Nowhere. The theory is that the skills required to excel as a punt returner translate well to the WR position, and as a result, I tend to like WRs that return punts well because the potential is there for those skills to manifest on offense, too. In recent years, we've seen it happen with Steve Smith, Eddie Royal, DeSean Jackson, and Devin Hester. I think that Steve Breaston could easily wind up making the jump, too. I like Jacoby Jones more than most "comparable" prospects because I think his punt return skillset serves as a great wildcard. Cribbs doesn't fit because he's not a WR that sometimes returns punts, he's a returner that sometimes plays WR. Cribbs is Devin Hester circa 2006, not Devin Hester circa 2008. If a team ever brought in Cribbs and started reducing his special teams workload so he could focus more on offense, then I would sit up and take notice in a heartbeat. Until then, he's just another Dante Hall, or Eddie Drummond.Slightly off on a tangent, and bear in mind that the following is nothing more than a roughly-formed opinion entirely unverified with anything remotely resembling research... but it seems to me that punt return skills translate better to the WR position, and kickoff return skills translate better to the RB position. Both types of returns require very different skillsets. A punt return must field the ball cleanly in traffic with the threat of unseen defenders lurking. The most important part of a punt returner's job (outside of securing the football) is making the first guy miss. The punt returner has to make cuts and get past defenders long before he has a chance to hit top speed. Meanwhile, a kickoff returner never has to worry about defenders when fielding the ball (just like an RB never has to worry about defenders when he takes the handoff), and the kickoff returner already has a pretty decent head of steam by the time he encounters the defenders (just like an RB already has a good head of steam by the time he hits the LoS). The kickoff returner's job is almost never about making people miss- it's about setting up his blocks, finding a small crease, and getting through it quickly. If a kickoff returner takes one to the house, it's because he correctly read his blocks, made the right cut, and hit the right hole at the right time. If a punt returner takes one to the house, it's because he managed to secure the ball under duress, quickly made someone miss, and then had a lot of open field in front of him. Anecdotally, league results seem to bear this out- it seems like most kickoff returners are RBs and most punt returners are WRs. In fact, the only RB who returns punts that comes to mind immediately is Reggie Bush (there are probably others, that's just the first that comes to mind), and the only WR who returns kickoffs that comes immediately to mind is Percy Harvin... which seems fitting, since Bush is really half WR and Harvin is half RB, anyway.

if you could move LT for a young rookie RB or 2nd year RB who would you target?

Anyone with a pulse.

 

[mulliganman]

I think it's time to discuss and reassess benson's dynasty value.

 

[thriftyrocker]

I think it's time to discuss and reassess benson's dynasty value.

I think the game after he plays his old team in a classic revenge match overachieve is the worst time to do it. No one was eager to reassess after he went 16 for 44 against the terrible Houston rush defense the week before.

 

[mulliganman]

I think it's time to discuss and reassess benson's dynasty value.

I think the game after he plays his old team in a classic revenge match overachieve is the worst time to do it. No one was eager to reassess after he went 16 for 44 against the terrible Houston rush defense the week before.

But, after his worst game is the best time?

 

[spon23]

I'm interested in some opinions on Kevin Smith's dynasty value. I originally drafted him 7th in my rookie draft last year, then ended up trading him (before he started to play well) in a package deal for Manning (needed to replace an injured Brady). Now that owner is shopping Smith and I'm a little light at RB, especially long-term. I don't think he's ultra-talented, but seems to be in a decent situation in terms of workload, not city. Would you give up a 1st round rookie pick (will be in the 9-12 range) and a reserve WR for Smith? I currently have 2 1st round picks; one of them will be very near the top of the round, the other will be near the end.

It's been a few weeks since I posted this question, but I was finally able to make the deal and wanted to thank everyone for their input. I traded low 1st round pick + Josh Morgan for K. Smith, V Shiancoe & M Bush. Will probably end up cutting Bush as he's under an "extended" contract and costs 2.5 contract years this year and 2.5 more next year.anyway, thanks again and love the ongoing discussion!

 

[Whiplash Inc.]

F&L and SSOG -

I know they're two completely different players, but how do guys project Megatron and DeSean to do long term? Considering the differences in offensive philosophy, QB- and O-line play. TIA.

 

[maxwelledison]

Anyone still like Lance Moore? I do and think he is a nice buy-low in a time where that term frequently no longer applies. I'm not expecting him to be a WR1 but in deep leagues he could be a very valuable cheap WR2/3. Thoughts?

 

[fsufan]

what is ADP's value in a PPR league?

is asking for 1 RB and 2 WRs to much