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Dynasty Value Discussion Thread (7 Viewers)

Robby Anderson, where do we put him? He could be a buy right now if these few games haven't convinced everybody. In terms of value, how close to Robert Woods/Tyler Lockett territory?

 
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If you have Dak and you are playing to win are you selling him a little cheaper or selling him as if he wasn't hurt assuming a rebuilder wants him.  The big question will be does he come back at 100% and there is no way to know that so if other owners won't pay full price and you have a window to win do you move him for less?  Just curious how people are valuing Dak today.
I don’t own him, but if I was buying I wouldn’t pay anywhere close to full price. There’s no guarantee he will come back totally healthy (though he should be able to) and there’s certainly no guarantee he’ll be on the Cowboys next year.

 
Why do you guys do when you get an offer like this- I don’t really need a tight end. I have four TEs: Hockenson, Engram, Sample, Trautman. I was offered Hunter Henry for my 2022 2nd. Great value for me, obviously, but I’m not sure about Henry and not sure if this even makes sense as I’m not really a buyer for Henry
Take the value and sort it out later.

 
I don’t own him, but if I was buying I wouldn’t pay anywhere close to full price. There’s no guarantee he will come back totally healthy (though he should be able to) and there’s certainly no guarantee he’ll be on the Cowboys next year.
I tend to agree with you and I am trying to acquire him.  So I'll be specific for Dak in a 12 team super flex league would K Drake and K Golladay feel like a fair price with those questions around dak? Or is that still too much.

 
I tend to agree with you and I am trying to acquire him.  So I'll be specific for Dak in a 12 team super flex league would K Drake and K Golladay feel like a fair price with those questions around dak? Or is that still too much.
I don't play superflex so I'm sure I am undervaluing Dak, but that seems like too much to me. I'm a big Golladay fan though.

 
I tend to agree with you and I am trying to acquire him.  So I'll be specific for Dak in a 12 team super flex league would K Drake and K Golladay feel like a fair price with those questions around dak? Or is that still too much.
This wouldn’t be close if I owned Dak in SF. Drake has not looked good this year so for me it’s Golladay for Dak. Dak was putting up stud numbers and I would expect the same when he returns next year.

 
I tend to agree with you and I am trying to acquire him.  So I'll be specific for Dak in a 12 team super flex league would K Drake and K Golladay feel like a fair price with those questions around dak? Or is that still too much.
I own Dak, but not in a Super Flex league. I would not trade him for Drake and Golladay. Edmonds has looked better than Drake so far this season.

 
Robby Anderson, where do we put him? He could be a buy right now if these few games haven't convinced everybody. In terms of value, how close to Robert Woods/Tyler Lockett territory?
I actually was coming here to post that it dawned on me that Robby Anderson may be on the Robert Woods path. Purgatory for his first four years in the league. Gets a second contract somewhere and starts immediately producing, and then is doubted because of all the data from the prior four years. 

The difference is Anderson is already 27 and is 2 years older than Woods was when he went to Los Angeles. 

He feels undervalued though, and this feels sustainable as a WR2/3 level producer. 

 
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I actually was coming here to post that it dawned on me that Robby Anderson may be on the Robert Woods path. Purgatory for his first four years in the league. Gets a second contract somewhere and starts immediately producing, and then is doubted because of all the data from the prior four years. 

The difference is Anderson is already 27 and is 2 years older than Woods was when he went to Los Angeles. 

He feels undervalued though, and this feels sustainable as a WR2/3 level producer. 
Not that Bridgewater is a world beater, at least he's competent. This is more than can be said for Jets quarterbacks. Also the coaches in Carolina have used Anderson effectively as more than just a deep threat. Bridgewater tends to take what the defense gives him, so Anderson doing a lot of the underneath work bodes well.

I went to watch a few of Carolina's games to scope out D.J. Moore. The inadvertent takeaway for me was Anderson is a good/great all around receiver. I expect his usage to continue so he's at least a wr2, likely a borderline wr1 here out. The Jets blew it with this guy is my opinion.

 
If you have Dak and you are playing to win are you selling him a little cheaper or selling him as if he wasn't hurt assuming a rebuilder wants him.  The big question will be does he come back at 100% and there is no way to know that so if other owners won't pay full price and you have a window to win do you move him for less?  Just curious how people are valuing Dak today.
Even if Dak comes back healthy these truly magical seasons where everything just lines up perfectly are rarely repeated, so it's a HUGE hit to Dak's value that he is done for this year when he seemed to be in the process of one of those all-time great seasons.

Dak was probably going to break the all-time passing record this year.  Even if there were no injury the odds of him ever repeating what he was doing this year in a future season were low.  Now you add a questionable return to health, a questionable return to the Cowboys, etc to the equation and things are definitely different.  He can still be a good buy if someone is selling low, but I would need a rather healthy discount to buy him.

 
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I own Dak, but not in a Super Flex league. I would not trade him for Drake and Golladay. Edmonds has looked better than Drake so far this season.
Wait wut?  Golladay for any QB not named Mahomes/Jackson is a smash accept straight up in a 1 QB league.  Who cares how bad Drake looks sell him for a 3rd but man I'd take Golladay in a flash.

 
This wouldn’t be close if I owned Dak in SF. Drake has not looked good this year so for me it’s Golladay for Dak. Dak was putting up stud numbers and I would expect the same when he returns next year.
I appreciate the feedback from everyone, but the owner with Dak in this league took Drake and Kenny G for him.  I am obviously rebuilding and I hated to let Golladay go, but getting Dak seemed the right move.

 
How would you rank the top 5 or so rookie WRs?
1. Lamb 

2 Jeudy

3. Jefferson

4. Shenault

5. Reagor

I think the top 3 are clear still and you can argue Jefferson has produced and should be ahead of Jeudy but I still really like Jeudy. 

That second group of Shenault Reagor Higgins and Ruggs can be moved a round to your own personal liking.  Then a drop to the claypool (one week doesn't jump him ahead of the others yet), Pittman, Mims, and Aiyuk group.

 
hispeedthinmint said:
I'd put Claypool ahead of Shenault & Higgins with Jeudy above Claypool & Jefferson, but Lamb still #1
Sucks that Reagor got hurt. He showed some flashes and Philly offense is desperate for playmakers. Looking forward to his return and seeing where he slots in. 

 
Concept Coop said:
How would you rank the top 5 or so rookie WRs?
Lamb

Reagor

Higgins

Jefferson

Shenault

Honorable mention with Edwards at 6.  Same top6 I had during my rookie drafts except in a different order. Although I'm impressed with Higgins/Jefferson/Shenault/Edwards I haven't seen enough that would vault them past Reagor yet. Even though Reagor's been out, I had him out classing these other's as prospects so I'm giving him the nod. 

 
Lamb
Jefferson
Ruggs, Jeudy, Claypool
Aiyuk, Higgins
Shenault, Pittman, Reagor
Mims, Davis, Edwards, Hamler

 
Lamb
Jefferson
Ruggs, Jeudy, Claypool
Aiyuk, Higgins
Shenault, Pittman, Reagor
Mims, Davis, Edwards, Hamler
Incredible depth here. Still have high expectations for Reagor and Pittman. Tier 6 is excellent. Probably needs Van Jefferson and Mooney in it. 

 
I realize it may be a bit reactionary to move Claypool up the rankings significantly after only five weeks into the season, but I just don't see how you don't. He's looked incredible.

 
I realize it may be a bit reactionary to move Claypool up the rankings significantly after only five weeks into the season, but I just don't see how you don't. He's looked incredible.
I think a big part of being good at this is being an early adopter on guys that absolutely look the part and being willing to “buy high” compared to their months-old rookie draft value, before we actually get close to the real high point. Now you can certainly whiff doing this, but you can also lock down guys before they go from risers for some to studs for all. 
 

It doesn’t even just apply to rookies. Last year I got Waller for free all over but sold in one league for some prospects, thinking that I’d done well just to capitalize on the announcement that he’d be the starter. After one actual NFL game or so I immediately bought him back and made the guy feel like he’d made a quick profit (which in some ways he had although I preferred my pieces) on my indecisiveness about Waller—but imo it was actually decisiveness and realizing I’d erred in thinking I’d already “sold high” when he clearly had a lot of height left in him, value wise. 

 
Mattison worth a late 1st to the Cook owner?
Maybe prior to Cook's contract extension, but I wouldn't pay anything near that now. Not for a guy who is game by game injury replacement for a sure fire starter, who will get 1/4-1/5 work in his role. That's the reality of his utility/expectations over the next couple years, until he maybe gets a chance as a FA when his rookie contract expires. 

 
I think a big part of being good at this is being an early adopter on guys that absolutely look the part and being willing to “buy high” compared to their months-old rookie draft value, before we actually get close to the real high point. Now you can certainly whiff doing this, but you can also lock down guys before they go from risers for some to studs for all. 
 

It doesn’t even just apply to rookies. Last year I got Waller for free all over but sold in one league for some prospects, thinking that I’d done well just to capitalize on the announcement that he’d be the starter. After one actual NFL game or so I immediately bought him back and made the guy feel like he’d made a quick profit (which in some ways he had although I preferred my pieces) on my indecisiveness about Waller—but imo it was actually decisiveness and realizing I’d erred in thinking I’d already “sold high” when he clearly had a lot of height left in him, value wise. 
This has been the foundation of my dynasty strategy for the last 3+ years now.  It seems like every year I'm getting in a discussion with someone on here who is saying "don't overreact to 4-5 weeks" and I'm replying with "underreacting to these 4-5 weeks is even more detrimental".  Glad to see someone coming in on the same side this year.

Like you said, it doesn't apply only to rookies.  Dynasty rankings change wildly from year to year but people/rankers are tentative about making big moves in-season, instead saving them for the following offseason even though the likely path is pretty clear in-season.

While I realize startup ADP isn't a perfect reflection of trade value it is probably the closest thing we have to putting a historic number to it.  Look at some of the guys that made moves in startup ADP from 2019 pre-season to 2019 4-5 weeks into the season and how that trend continued and amplified into the following offseason.

David Johnson fell from late 1st startup value to late 2nd startup value 4-5 weeks into last season.

Le"veon Bell fell from late 1st startup to early 2nd startup.

Odell Beckham early 1st -> late 1st

James Conner early 2nd -> mid 3rd

And the same thing in the other direction

Derrick Henry mid 4th startup pre-season to mid-3rd in October

AJ Brown mid 8th -> early 5th

DK Metcalf late 7th -> early 5th

Chris Godwin mid 5th -> late 2nd

Obviously it's not perfect and there are guys like Mixon who bounce back.  But consider that at this time last year selling OBJ for 1st round startup value was "selling low".  Selling Le'Veon/DJ for 2nd round startup value was "selling low".  Buying Derrick Henry at 3rd round startup value or AJB/DK at 5th round value were all "buying high".  Then consider what all those guys were worth once the offseason rolled around even though their pace through the rest of the season didn't really change.

There are plenty of guys that will follow that same trend this year, even if they seem obvious.  "Overpaying" for Claypool or Lamb or those guys is fine by me because buying high now might be the cheapest they will ever be moving forward.  Even obvious ones like Metcalf.  I look around trade threads and I see people wary about trading away Michael Thomas for DK+.  Yet it seems fairly likely/predictable that next offseason MT will not be enough for DK and even something like MT+1st probably won't be enough.  So he's a guy I'm buying "high" everywhere I can even at "outrageous" value because I don't think we've even begun to see "outrageous".

 
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This has been the foundation of my dynasty strategy for the last 3+ years now.  It seems like every year I'm getting in a discussion with someone on here who is saying "don't overreact to 4-5 weeks" and I'm replying with "underreacting to these 4-5 weeks is even more detrimental".  Glad to see someone coming in on the same side this year.

Like you said, it doesn't apply only to rookies.  Dynasty rankings change wildly from year to year but people/rankers are tentative about making big moves in-season, instead saving them for the following offseason even though the likely path is pretty clear in-season.

While I realize startup ADP isn't a perfect reflection of trade value it is probably the closest thing we have to putting a historic number to it.  Look at some of the guys that made moves in startup ADP from 2019 pre-season to 2019 4-5 weeks into the season and how that trend continued and amplified into the following offseason.

David Johnson fell from late 1st startup value to late 2nd startup value 4-5 weeks into last season.

Le"veon Bell fell from late 1st startup to early 2nd startup.

Odell Beckham early 1st -> late 1st

James Conner early 2nd -> mid 3rd

And the same thing in the other direction

Derrick Henry mid 4th startup pre-season to mid-3rd in October

AJ Brown mid 8th -> early 5th

DK Metcalf late 7th -> early 5th

Chris Godwin mid 5th -> late 2nd

Obviously it's not perfect and there are guys like Mixon who bounce back.  But consider that at this time last year selling OBJ for 1st round startup value was "selling low".  Selling Le'Veon/DJ for 2nd round startup value was "selling low".  Buying Derrick Henry at 3rd round startup value or AJB/DK at 5th round value were all "buying high".  Then consider what all those guys were worth once the offseason rolled around even though their pace through the rest of the season didn't really change.

There are plenty of guys that will follow that same trend this year, even if they seem obvious.  "Overpaying" for Claypool or Lamb or those guys is fine by me because buying high now might be the cheapest they will ever be moving forward.  Even obvious ones like Metcalf.  I look around trade threads and I see people wary about trading away Michael Thomas for DK+.  Yet it seems fairly likely/predictable that next offseason MT will not be enough for DK and even something like MT+1st probably won't be enough.  So he's a guy I'm buying "high" everywhere I can even at "outrageous" value because I don't think we've even begun to see "outrageous".
Thomas is overrated imo. He's not old but you're gaining a lot of years with Metcalf. And this looks like it for Brees so great time to sell.

 
Is it possible to establish an advantage over your league on the strength of your WRs anymore? The WR group is so strong, from top bottom, that it’s difficult, IMO. And I don’t know that this will change anytime soon. This rookie class is incredible and next year’s looks strong too.

I think the play is to move WR value for non-WR value while we can. I think the market is still behind. A couple examples; if you can get someone like Swift for Moore or Juju, or Sanders for Hill or Hopkins, I think you do it. You’re giving up value, according to ADP (etc.), but likely have plenty of replacement options; the value over replacement favors the RBs. 

TE, too. Why is Noah Fant still less valuable than WR2/3 types like Woods and Kupp or even Deebo? Give me the potentially elite TE over the easily replaceable WRs. 

There are just so many Andersons and Crowders and Slaytons and Fullers and Locketts and Boyds and Parkers.

The clearest path to dominance right now is investing in non-WR difference makers.

 
Is it possible to establish an advantage over your league on the strength of your WRs anymore? The WR group is so strong, from top bottom, that it’s difficult, IMO. And I don’t know that this will change anytime soon. This rookie class is incredible and next year’s looks strong too.

I think the play is to move WR value for non-WR value while we can. I think the market is still behind. A couple examples; if you can get someone like Swift for Moore or Juju, or Sanders for Hill or Hopkins, I think you do it. You’re giving up value, according to ADP (etc.), but likely have plenty of replacement options; the value over replacement favors the RBs. 

TE, too. Why is Noah Fant still less valuable than WR2/3 types like Woods and Kupp or even Deebo? Give me the potentially elite TE over the easily replaceable WRs. 

There are just so many Andersons and Crowders and Slaytons and Fullers and Locketts and Boyds and Parkers.

The clearest path to dominance right now is investing in non-WR difference makers.
Very good post.

There's just so many good WRs in the league now that a starting lineup of Adams, Hill, Evans and Cooper looks amazing on paper but hardly gives you any advantage over most teams you'll play.

 
TE, too. Why is Noah Fant still less valuable than WR2/3 types like Woods and Kupp or even Deebo? Give me the potentially elite TE over the easily replaceable WRs. 

There are just so many Andersons and Crowders and Slaytons and Fullers and Locketts and Boyds and Parkers.

The clearest path to dominance right now is investing in non-WR difference makers.
Having Kittle/Kelce is such a huge benefit, it truly is a difference maker.  Everyone has good receivers, everyone has good QB, it's RB and TE that make or break you.  I've reached out to the Kittle owner a couple times and I've been told that he is basically untradeable, as it would cost me basically two whole drafts AND an RB2 to get him

 
TE, too. Why is Noah Fant still less valuable than WR2/3 types like Woods and Kupp or even Deebo? Give me the potentially elite TE over the easily replaceable WRs.
Unless you have premium TE scoring, this is a negative EV move. Not just for Fant (who I think may end up being replaced by Albert O), but this goes for all of the middling TE1s

I'm just not interested in paying up for a guy who has to score a TD to be relevant.

 
Unless you have premium TE scoring, this is a negative EV move. Not just for Fant (who I think may end up being replaced by Albert O), but this goes for all of the middling TE1s

I'm just not interested in paying up for a guy who has to score a TD to be relevant.
Sounds like we just disagree on Fant. He’s 22 YO and only in his second season. That he’s already a mid-TE1 is a great sign, but that’s not why he’s valuable. You’re buying his ceiling, not his floor. Fant doesn’t need TDs to be relevant. He’s on a 76/880 over 16 game pace. Those are Ertz numbers. Already. Small sample size, but again, you’re buying his ceiling. 

 
Is it possible to establish an advantage over your league on the strength of your WRs anymore? The WR group is so strong, from top bottom, that it’s difficult, IMO. And I don’t know that this will change anytime soon. This rookie class is incredible and next year’s looks strong too.

I think the play is to move WR value for non-WR value while we can. I think the market is still behind. A couple examples; if you can get someone like Swift for Moore or Juju, or Sanders for Hill or Hopkins, I think you do it. You’re giving up value, according to ADP (etc.), but likely have plenty of replacement options; the value over replacement favors the RBs. 

TE, too. Why is Noah Fant still less valuable than WR2/3 types like Woods and Kupp or even Deebo? Give me the potentially elite TE over the easily replaceable WRs. 

There are just so many Andersons and Crowders and Slaytons and Fullers and Locketts and Boyds and Parkers.

The clearest path to dominance right now is investing in non-WR difference makers.
Great points. Was just talking to a league mate the other day about the same thing. WRs are a dime a dozen. Gonna win leagues with top RBs and Kittle and Kelce. 

 
Is it possible to establish an advantage over your league on the strength of your WRs anymore? The WR group is so strong, from top bottom, that it’s difficult, IMO. And I don’t know that this will change anytime soon. This rookie class is incredible and next year’s looks strong too.

I think the play is to move WR value for non-WR value while we can. I think the market is still behind. A couple examples; if you can get someone like Swift for Moore or Juju, or Sanders for Hill or Hopkins, I think you do it. You’re giving up value, according to ADP (etc.), but likely have plenty of replacement options; the value over replacement favors the RBs. 

TE, too. Why is Noah Fant still less valuable than WR2/3 types like Woods and Kupp or even Deebo? Give me the potentially elite TE over the easily replaceable WRs. 

There are just so many Andersons and Crowders and Slaytons and Fullers and Locketts and Boyds and Parkers.

The clearest path to dominance right now is investing in non-WR difference makers.
Good post. I think the advantage of being strong at WR is watered down right now if having a top WR group is your main strategy (e.g. taking WRs in early consecutive rounds of a startup). That said, in the leagues I play in (ppr/flex) having strong WRs is a minimum necessary condition for competing. So I still find it important to prioritize them. Because the guys in my leagues still place high value on the position, you have to spend early rookie picks and allocate a good bit of FAAB to build a strong core, and trading for them is costly.

 
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Sounds like we just disagree on Fant. He’s 22 YO and only in his second season. That he’s already a mid-TE1 is a great sign, but that’s not why he’s valuable. You’re buying his ceiling, not his floor. Fant doesn’t need TDs to be relevant. He’s on a 76/880 over 16 game pace. Those are Ertz numbers. Already. Small sample size, but again, you’re buying his ceiling. 
I was all over Fant last year, and then the team went out and bought a whole war chest of shiny new WRs and TEs.

The QB situation sucks and his target share is just about guaranteed to drop as the season progresses. 

If you like him and don't already own him, the time to buy is not today.  And not for that price, unless you absolutely have to have him and the owner won't be budged for anything other than a Godfather offer.

 
I was all over Fant last year, and then the team went out and bought a whole war chest of shiny new WRs and TEs.

The QB situation sucks and his target share is just about guaranteed to drop as the season progresses. 

If you like him and don't already own him, the time to buy is not today.  And not for that price, unless you absolutely have to have him and the owner won't be budged for anything other than a Godfather offer.
I like him too much to be scared off by any of this. And his price will continue rising if he keeps putting up numbers. Again, I think we just disagree on the player. Your opinion is likely closer to consensus than mine, fwiw. 

 
I think it's also a strategy decision based on how you view TEs in general.  Fant falls into the "I'm not comfortable starting him every week" group of TEs to me.  I would still be looking to play matchups with the 2-3 other TEs on my roster.  The WRs you mentioned giving up for him are every week starters for just about any roster as long as they are healthy. 

The true problem is that there's only 3 TEs who are set-and-forget starters.  4 if you think Waller fits the bill.

 
I think it's also a strategy decision based on how you view TEs in general.  Fant falls into the "I'm not comfortable starting him every week" group of TEs to me.  I would still be looking to play matchups with the 2-3 other TEs on my roster.  The WRs you mentioned giving up for him are every week starters for just about any roster as long as they are healthy. 

The true problem is that there's only 3 TEs who are set-and-forget starters.  4 if you think Waller fits the bill.
Again, I’m trading for what I think he will be. I’m trading a ~baseline starter whom I can replace relatively easily for what I view as a solid gamble on the next Kittle or Kelce.

 
Is it possible to establish an advantage over your league on the strength of your WRs anymore? The WR group is so strong, from top bottom, that it’s difficult, IMO. And I don’t know that this will change anytime soon. This rookie class is incredible and next year’s looks strong too.

I think the play is to move WR value for non-WR value while we can. I think the market is still behind. A couple examples; if you can get someone like Swift for Moore or Juju, or Sanders for Hill or Hopkins, I think you do it. You’re giving up value, according to ADP (etc.), but likely have plenty of replacement options; the value over replacement favors the RBs. 

TE, too. Why is Noah Fant still less valuable than WR2/3 types like Woods and Kupp or even Deebo? Give me the potentially elite TE over the easily replaceable WRs. 

There are just so many Andersons and Crowders and Slaytons and Fullers and Locketts and Boyds and Parkers.

The clearest path to dominance right now is investing in non-WR difference makers.
I have felt this way for years and it's amplified even more this year.

In my main league I am rolling out Hopkins/Tyreek/Lockett (or Jefferson for Lockett some weeks) and it feels like an unbeatable group.  But every week when I look across at the matchup my opponent is rolling out options that are basically a toss-up against them.

I actually had this discussion with someone 2 days ago when they were looking to move WR strength (Evans) for a RB and getting frustrated they couldn't make something happen.  I basically told them guys like Evans just aren't attractive to people anymore because everyone has plenty of good startable WRs, and everyone needs RBs.

It's why I've been against the idea of building around WRs, which seems to be the popular strategy in dynasty, for years now.  People always say things like "once you get there you're set there for years and you can spend all your capital moving forward on RBs" and "if you are really stuck at RB you can always just trade some of that WR strength for RBs".

In practice neither of these are as romantic or realistic as they sound on paper.  Like I said in my main league I have Hopkins/Hill/Lockett (and several other good players) in my main league so it probably didn't make much sense to target a WR with my late 1st round pick.  But that doesn't mean it would have been a smart move to pass up on Justin Jefferson in favor of a RB hail marry like Vaughn.  Thank goodness I didn't do that but the idea of just "ignoring WRs because you're set there" just makes you perpetually lose out on good players that are relatively cheap to acquire.

Likewise the idea of trading WR strength for RB help sounds better on paper than it works out, mainly because pretty much every other team has WR strength and needs RB help so why would they trade a RB for a WR, which is the opposite of what they need?  To make a WR for RB trade you have to give up a bunch of value.  You can't just make a lateral trade between two guys that have similar value.  You usually have to move down a tier or two at RB to move a WR.

 
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Likewise the idea of trading WR strength for RB help sounds better on paper than it works out, mainly because pretty much every other team has WR strength and needs RB help so why would they trade a RB for a WR, which is the opposite of what they need?  To make a WR for RB trade you have to give up a bunch of value.  You can't just make a lateral trade between two guys that have similar value.  You usually have to move down a tier or two at RB to move a WR.
It’s really hard to trade for starting RBs or high end TEs in-season. I mentioned Swift and Fant for that reason. It’s still possible to pivot from WR value though. The top 2 or 3 RBs from the 2021 class will be worth more than Juju or Moore in April. But you might be able to get the picks to select them with (and then some) for Juju or Moore today, for example. 

 
Concept Coop said:
It’s really hard to trade for starting RBs or high end TEs in-season. I mentioned Swift and Fant for that reason. It’s still possible to pivot from WR value though. The top 2 or 3 RBs from the 2021 class will be worth more than Juju or Moore in April. But you might be able to get the picks to select them with (and then some) for Juju or Moore today, for example. 
Yeah that is a good point, though if the pick belongs to its original team l've found it can be difficult to convince a rebuilding team to trade away picks, even if it's for young players.  A lot of people just have it stuck in their head that rebuilds should be done largely through the draft.  And to be fair to them, guys like JuJu and DJM aren't players I would be looking to rebuild around myself.

The bigger issue for me is I play mostly in FFPC/Apex leagues that both use means other than just reverse standings to determine draft order in order to prevent tanking.

 

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