Dynasty Value Discussion Thread (1 Viewer)

[FreeBaGeL]

I think it's considerably less likely and I'd bet you our entry fee in our league on it next year. Just let me know

As if the FFPC SharkPool league wasn’t fun and interesting enough!

Well if I can guarantee one outcome from this discussion it's that I will never bet $250 on the likes of Javonte Williams in any capacity.

I am a gambler though and would love some SP side bets in that league, if only it weren't by far my worst team across all 12 of my dynasty teams (which I don't think is coincidence, the GP competition is much easier than ya'll).

 

[joey]

I think it's considerably less likely and I'd bet you our entry fee in our league on it next year. Just let me know

As if the FFPC SharkPool league wasn’t fun and interesting enough!

Well if I can guarantee one outcome from this discussion it's that I will never bet $250 on the likes of Javonte Williams in any capacity.

I am a gambler though and would love some SP side bets in that league, if only it weren't by far my worst team across all 12 of my dynasty teams (which I don't think is coincidence, the GP competition is much easier than ya'll).

In one of my dynasty leagues with many long time friends, a couple of teams occasionally make bets that are simply a swap of a late round pick. (E.g. winner of the bet gets the higher of their 5th round picks, or something silly like that). Mostly bragging rights but a little skin in the game to make it fun.

 

[menobrown]

GP competition is much easier than ya'l

We definitely agree on that, never had a league I've remotely done so poor and I've come to respect a lot of people from that league a great deal from getting a first hand look at how they operate.

 

[IHEARTFF]

Take the 3rd and draft Jaydon Blue

That’s my target in the 3rd.

You'd better hope it's 3.01 and even then it's only 50/50. And that's assuming it's SF and TEP, otherwise no chance he's there in the 3rd.

Fair point

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Take the 3rd and draft Jaydon Blue

That’s my target in the 3rd.

You'd better hope it's 3.01 and even then it's only 50/50. And that's assuming it's SF and TEP, otherwise no chance he's there in the 3rd.

Fair point

Stop crushing my dreams!



(it is SF, so ya never know. People get squirrelly reaching for QBs)

 

[Blick]

The irony in this is Tank Bigsby also "led his team in carries" and finished as RB39.

Not really ironic, don't really like Bigsby but was trying to handcuff Etienne.

But if you want to talk about intentionally misleading comments you just hit the nail on the head as that fails to take into account the passing game work which is most of Javonte's production.

But I don't think he's any less likely to be that guy than Rico was last year.

I think it's considerably less likely and I'd bet you our entry fee in our league on it next year. Just let me know.

But let's say he gets Rico's workload to the tee and is the same efficient guy as last year. That would work to a 11.835 fantasy points a game, nudging him into RB29. Thanks, I'll take the third and not embrace the loser mentality that I can't find that kind of production with the pick or roster spot.

Here are the 3rd round picks in the last few years were more productive than Javonte last year. Using fantasypros rookie rankings: 2024 Tracy, Bucky, 2023 - Chase Brown, Puka, 2022 - Shakir, Pacheco, 2021 - Nico, Chubba.

So 2 per year. The others aren’t even close. Complete busts. I’ll take the opportunity with Javonte over the small chance of lucking into someone better if I have a contender.

 

[JoeJoe88]

I have this offer on the table as a win-now team. Need some opinions. 10 team, Start 2QB start 11. PPR.

Give: Stroud, Gibbs, 2.03
Get: Josh Allen, Mike Evans

Other QB’s: Purdy, Penix, Geno

Still have Bijan, Jacobs and KW at rb.

 

[menobrown]

The irony in this is Tank Bigsby also "led his team in carries" and finished as RB39.

Not really ironic, don't really like Bigsby but was trying to handcuff Etienne.

But if you want to talk about intentionally misleading comments you just hit the nail on the head as that fails to take into account the passing game work which is most of Javonte's production.

But I don't think he's any less likely to be that guy than Rico was last year.

I think it's considerably less likely and I'd bet you our entry fee in our league on it next year. Just let me know.

But let's say he gets Rico's workload to the tee and is the same efficient guy as last year. That would work to a 11.835 fantasy points a game, nudging him into RB29. Thanks, I'll take the third and not embrace the loser mentality that I can't find that kind of production with the pick or roster spot.

Here are the 3rd round picks in the last few years were more productive than Javonte last year. Using fantasypros rookie rankings: 2024 Tracy, Bucky, 2023 - Chase Brown, Puka, 2022 - Shakir, Pacheco, 2021 - Nico, Chubba.

So 2 per year. The others aren’t even close. Complete busts. I’ll take the opportunity with Javonte over the small chance of lucking into someone better if I have a contender.

There is a lot I could say about this posts but I'll try to keep it simple and just focus on one thing.

Javonte Williams has led this team in rushing attempts and targets each of the last two years and has garnered mid RB30's finishes and barely cracking 10 fantasy points a game.

If you want to do success rate of third round picks I'd suggest you take a long hard look at veteran RB's who sign or led their team two years in a row in touches and attempts who sign for $3M or less and are even as good as they were. Even if you throw out the leading their team in rushes and receptions among RB's what's the success rate of RB's changing teams for $3M or less and being good fantasy pickups. I'd be willing the bet the odds of success are a lot lower then hitting on a third round pick and lot less chance for upside.

 

[Lehigh98]

Take the 3rd and draft Jaydon Blue

That’s my target in the 3rd.

You'd better hope it's 3.01 and even then it's only 50/50. And that's assuming it's SF and TEP, otherwise no chance he's there in the 3rd.

Fair point

Stop crushing my dreams!



(it is SF, so ya never know. People get squirrelly reaching for QBs)

Just got him at 3.04 in a 0.25 PPC league, he's no sure thing.

 

[Hurl Bruce]

Does Ainias Smith WR PHI have any value? We have cut-down day coming up, and wondered if anyone read anything up on him.

Also, is there even a glimmer of hope for CEH to ever do anything of value ever again?

 

[mjb03003]

Take the 3rd and draft Jaydon Blue

That’s my target in the 3rd.

You'd better hope it's 3.01 and even then it's only 50/50. And that's assuming it's SF and TEP, otherwise no chance he's there in the 3rd.

Is Jayden Blue really steaming up boards?
I got him at 3.09 a week or so ago.

 

[joey]

Take the 3rd and draft Jaydon Blue

That’s my target in the 3rd.

You'd better hope it's 3.01 and even then it's only 50/50. And that's assuming it's SF and TEP, otherwise no chance he's there in the 3rd.

Is Jayden Blue really steaming up boards?
I got him at 3.09 a week or so ago.

Feels league dependent (some leagues are RB Heavy, etc). He’s averaged 3.2-ish ADP in my 3 FFPC drafts (2 are 1QB, 1 is SF).
Fwiw.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Take the 3rd and draft Jaydon Blue

That’s my target in the 3rd.

You'd better hope it's 3.01 and even then it's only 50/50. And that's assuming it's SF and TEP, otherwise no chance he's there in the 3rd.

Is Jayden Blue really steaming up boards?
I got him at 3.09 a week or so ago.

That’s where he just went today in my 16 team league (3.10, actually)

Caveat 1: it’s SF & IDP and 11 picks prior were LB/DE/DT. More QBs than expected also went, but neither is unusual for SF drafts.

Caveat 2: it’s 16 teams. Which seems relevant because pick 3.09 in a 16 team league (41st overall) translates to pick 4.05 in a 12 team league.

Minus the 11 IDP, and that’s pick 3.06

I think that math is right? Never know if someone’s gonna prefer a WR or has some sleeper they’re fixated on.

So I’m saying there’s a chance.

I’m not gonna hold my breath.

 

[menobrown]

Take the 3rd and draft Jaydon Blue

That’s my target in the 3rd.

You'd better hope it's 3.01 and even then it's only 50/50. And that's assuming it's SF and TEP, otherwise no chance he's there in the 3rd.

Is Jayden Blue really steaming up boards?
I got him at 3.09 a week or so ago.

ADP of rookie 19 overall out of 882 FFPC drafts. These are the standard TEP/one QB leagues.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Take the 3rd and draft Jaydon Blue

That’s my target in the 3rd.

You'd better hope it's 3.01 and even then it's only 50/50. And that's assuming it's SF and TEP, otherwise no chance he's there in the 3rd.

Is Jayden Blue really steaming up boards?
I got him at 3.09 a week or so ago.

ADP of rookie 19 overall out of 882 FFPC drafts. These are the standard TEP/one QB leagues.

Yeah, this is SF. 5 QBs will likely be drafted before Blue.

But I still probably have no shot.

 

[menobrown]

Does Ainias Smith WR PHI have any value? We have cut-down day coming up,

Also, is there even a glimmer of hope for CEH to ever do anything of value ever again?

I still won't say never but odds are against him pretty heavily to beat out Neal and Kendre for the right to be the backkup.

 

[menobrown]

Take the 3rd and draft Jaydon Blue

That’s my target in the 3rd.

You'd better hope it's 3.01 and even then it's only 50/50. And that's assuming it's SF and TEP, otherwise no chance he's there in the 3rd.

Is Jayden Blue really steaming up boards?
I got him at 3.09 a week or so ago.

ADP of rookie 19 overall out of 882 FFPC drafts. These are the standard TEP/one QB leagues.

Yeah, this is SF. 5 QBs will likely be drafted before Blue.

But I still probably have no shot.

Not sure where you pick but looks like player 27 out of 408 SF/TEP leagues.

Good luck, I've been really high on him for awhile and said months ago he was the guy I was over consensus on in this draft more then anyone else.....then barely got him in my rookie drafts, which is a bit of a bummer.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Good luck, I've been really high on him for awhile and said months ago he was the guy I was over consensus on in this draft more then anyone else.....then barely got him in my rookie drafts, which is a bit of a bummer.

Yeah, it’s probably a pipe dream
At 3.06

That’s 30th overall, 4 picks past SF ADP.

Just looked at MFL and that’s where he’s listed in queue.

So realistically my targets are Shadeur Sanders, Royals, Devin Neal, Giddens, or Hunter.

Neal seems like the next best target if he’s the eventual Kamara replacement.

 

[jm192]

Thanks for the Javonte Williams feedback everybody.

I'm hopeful/optimistic I can get the 2nd out of the guy who won last year. Obviously, I expect it to be a late 2nd. Going to offer him up to others for a 2nd and hope someone bites. Not so much expecting it. But also don't feel like a starting RB for a 2nd is preposterous/insulting.

 

[Western_77]

Bryce Young's value?

1 QB league

I offered an owner a 2.09 rookie draft pick for Young. Thought he'd be a decent 3rd QB for me, behind Herbert and Maye. It got turned down, with the owner saying that he'd already turned down a better offer and that he'd do it for my 2.01 and 2.09 or wait until closer to the season to see what he can get.

I thought that 2.09 was in the ballpark, according to some dynasty value charts that I read. I would have thrown in a 4th round pick or possibly a 3rd.

This owner has 8 QB's on his roster! 4 are starters and 4 are trash. I would rank Young as his 4th QB

Anyway, I will probably end up taking Milroe or Dart at 2.9

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Bryce Young's value?

1 QB league

I offered an owner a 2.09 rookie draft pick for Young. Thought he'd be a decent 3rd QB for me, behind Herbert and Maye. It got turned down, with the owner saying that he'd already turned down a better offer and that he'd do it for my 2.01 and 2.09 or wait until closer to the season to see what he can get.

I thought that 2.09 was in the ballpark, according to some dynasty value charts that I read. I would have thrown in a 4th round pick or possibly a 3rd.

This owner has 8 QB's on his roster! 4 are starters and 4 are trash. I would rank Young as his 4th QB

Anyway, I will probably end up taking Milroe or Dart at 2.9

In a 1 QB league I wouldn’t pay more than what you offered.

 

[SayWhat?]

In a 1QB league where you have two decent quarterbacks? I wouldn’t pay anything for Young. Why add a low upside 3rd quarterback? Unless that other guy has nothing at QB, I can’t believe he turned down 2.09.

 

[Western_77]

In a 1QB league where you have two decent quarterbacks? I wouldn’t pay anything for Young. Why add a low upside 3rd quarterback? Unless that other guy has nothing at QB, I can’t believe he turned down 2.09.

He's got Daniels, Nix, McCarthy, Young....and then garbage.

I figure that Young would be a decent third QB with some upside, based on his better play at the end of last season and with the addition of Tet. I was a bit surprised that he turned it down.

 

[Born to Run]

In a 1QB league where you have two decent quarterbacks? I wouldn’t pay anything for Young. Why add a low upside 3rd quarterback? Unless that other guy has nothing at QB, I can’t believe he turned down 2.09.

He's got Daniels, Nix, McCarthy, Young....and then garbage.

I figure that Young would be a decent third QB with some upside, based on his better play at the end of last season and with the addition of Tet. I was a bit surprised that he turned it down.

How deep are the rosters? Herbert is not injury prone; we will see about Maye. Why not use that roster spot for a deep RB or WR prospect? Or maybe stash a TE that may need a year to develop.

 

[Western_77]

In a 1QB league where you have two decent quarterbacks? I wouldn’t pay anything for Young. Why add a low upside 3rd quarterback? Unless that other guy has nothing at QB, I can’t believe he turned down 2.09.

He's got Daniels, Nix, McCarthy, Young....and then garbage.

I figure that Young would be a decent third QB with some upside, based on his better play at the end of last season and with the addition of Tet. I was a bit surprised that he turned it down.

How deep are the rosters? Herbert is not injury prone; we will see about Maye. Why not use that roster spot for a deep RB or WR prospect? Or maybe stash a TE that may need a year to develop.

Rosters are big, 11 Starters, 15 Bench and 5 Taxi. Yes, I will end up using 2.09 to take shot on a rookie QB or WR, etc. Things can fall apart quickly when a QB gets injured so I didn't mind offering a 2.09 for a bit of QB insurance.

 

[Raging weasel]

In a 1QB league where you have two decent quarterbacks? I wouldn’t pay anything for Young. Why add a low upside 3rd quarterback? Unless that other guy has nothing at QB, I can’t believe he turned down 2.09.

He's got Daniels, Nix, McCarthy, Young....and then garbage.

I figure that Young would be a decent third QB with some upside, based on his better play at the end of last season and with the addition of Tet. I was a bit surprised that he turned it down.

What's the roster size in that league? My largest roster dynasty league is 25 and there's been times it was hard to roster 3 let alone 8.

 

[ghostguy123]

Why bother trading 2.09 for Young as a 3rd QB???
2.09 is more valuable than Young this year anyway

 

[joey]

Bryce Young's value?

1 QB league

I offered an owner a 2.09 rookie draft pick for Young. Thought he'd be a decent 3rd QB for me, behind Herbert and Maye. It got turned down, with the owner saying that he'd already turned down a better offer and that he'd do it for my 2.01 and 2.09 or wait until closer to the season to see what he can get.

I thought that 2.09 was in the ballpark, according to some dynasty value charts that I read. I would have thrown in a 4th round pick or possibly a 3rd.

This owner has 8 QB's on his roster! 4 are starters and 4 are trash. I would rank Young as his 4th QB

Anyway, I will probably end up taking Milroe or Dart at 2.9

No way (imho) is Young worth 2.9 in a 1QB league.
You obviously have a QB horder in your league and I’d dare to guess his team isn’t doing very well if he’s carrying that many QBs instead of rostering RB/WR/TE depth.
Take BPA at 2.09 and move along.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Should I deal formerly “untouchable” ARSB + Monty for BTJ + Hampton?

Win-now team but RBs are getting older (Mixon, Monty, Chase Brown)

We’ve chatted about it. Not a lock it would be accepted but it might. Why am I hesitating to offer it?

 

[menobrown]

Should I deal formerly “untouchable” ARSB + Monty for BTJ + Hampton?

Win-now team but RBs are getting older (Mixon, Monty, Chase Brown)

We’ve chatted about it. Not a lock it would be accepted but it might. Why am I hesitating to offer it?

Honestly can't imagine NOT smashing accept as quickly as possible.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Honestly can't imagine NOT smashing accept as quickly as possible.

Well, because it’s not an offer to me. There’s nothing to smash. lol

I have much fondness for ARSB. He’s a favorite player. And I have no idea how the Hampton/Najee split will look while Monty has a fairly predictable (and high floor) role.

 

[IHEARTFF]

Should I deal formerly “untouchable” ARSB + Monty for BTJ + Hampton?

Win-now team but RBs are getting older (Mixon, Monty, Chase Brown)

We’ve chatted about it. Not a lock it would be accepted but it might. Why am I hesitating to offer it?

Heck yes

 

[menobrown]

In a 1QB league where you have two decent quarterbacks? I wouldn’t pay anything for Young. Why add a low upside 3rd quarterback? Unless that other guy has nothing at QB, I can’t believe he turned down 2.09.

He's got Daniels, Nix, McCarthy, Young....and then garbage.

I figure that Young would be a decent third QB with some upside, based on his better play at the end of last season and with the addition of Tet. I was a bit surprised that he turned it down.

How deep are the rosters? Herbert is not injury prone; we will see about Maye. Why not use that roster spot for a deep RB or WR prospect? Or maybe stash a TE that may need a year to develop.

Rosters are big, 11 Starters, 15 Bench and 5 Taxi. Yes, I will end up using 2.09 to take shot on a rookie QB or WR, etc. Things can fall apart quickly when a QB gets injured so I didn't mind offering a 2.09 for a bit of QB insurance.

Should the fact the rosters are so large only make it more important to stock up depth at non-QB positions?

IMO you already got two and odds both won't be hurt at the same time. They both bye very late so if one is out you could run into an issue in week 12 or 14 but I'd address that potential issue then and stock up the rest of my team.

 

[Western_77]

Bryce Young's value?

1 QB league

I offered an owner a 2.09 rookie draft pick for Young. Thought he'd be a decent 3rd QB for me, behind Herbert and Maye. It got turned down, with the owner saying that he'd already turned down a better offer and that he'd do it for my 2.01 and 2.09 or wait until closer to the season to see what he can get.

I thought that 2.09 was in the ballpark, according to some dynasty value charts that I read. I would have thrown in a 4th round pick or possibly a 3rd.

This owner has 8 QB's on his roster! 4 are starters and 4 are trash. I would rank Young as his 4th QB

Anyway, I will probably end up taking Milroe or Dart at 2.9

No way (imho) is Young worth 2.9 in a 1QB league.
You obviously have a QB horder in your league and I’d dare to guess his team isn’t doing very well if he’s carrying that many QBs instead of rostering RB/WR/TE depth.
Take BPA at 2.09 and move along.

The Young owner would disagree, apparently he's already turned down a better offer.

It's a little bizarre, his team has definitely suffered by having 8 spots dedicated to QB's. That said, he finished 2 spots higher than me (4th last vs 2nd last) last season, but I was busy selling off aging assets. That left me with 3 2nd round picks and I thought that I'd rather have Young than Milroe or Dart, who I could probably get at 2.09. Anyway, he's looking to get more for Young and I will move on. Maybe i will be glad that he rejected the offer.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Bryce Young's value?

1 QB league

I offered an owner a 2.09 rookie draft pick for Young. Thought he'd be a decent 3rd QB for me, behind Herbert and Maye. It got turned down, with the owner saying that he'd already turned down a better offer and that he'd do it for my 2.01 and 2.09 or wait until closer to the season to see what he can get.

I thought that 2.09 was in the ballpark, according to some dynasty value charts that I read. I would have thrown in a 4th round pick or possibly a 3rd.

This owner has 8 QB's on his roster! 4 are starters and 4 are trash. I would rank Young as his 4th QB

Anyway, I will probably end up taking Milroe or Dart at 2.9

No way (imho) is Young worth 2.9 in a 1QB league.
You obviously have a QB horder in your league and I’d dare to guess his team isn’t doing very well if he’s carrying that many QBs instead of rostering RB/WR/TE depth.
Take BPA at 2.09 and move along.

The Young owner would disagree, apparently he's already turned down a better offer.

It's a little bizarre, his team has definitely suffered by having 8 spots dedicated to QB's. That said, he finished 2 spots higher than me (4th last vs 2nd last) last season, but I was busy selling off aging assets. That left me with 3 2nd round picks and I thought that I'd rather have Young than Milroe or Dart, who I could probably get at 2.09. Anyway, he's looking to get more for Young and I will move on. Maybe i will be glad that he rejected the offer.

My advice is don’t pay more because an owner unrealistically values an asset. Maybe if you were desperate - but from the info above you’re not.

 

[menobrown]

Honestly can't imagine NOT smashing accept as quickly as possible.

Well, because it’s not an offer to me. There’s nothing to smash. lol

I have much fondness for ARSB. He’s a favorite player. And I have no idea how the Hampton/Najee split will look while Monty has a fairly predictable (and high floor) role.

I did read that after I posted, thought it was offer you were sent. So on the flip side if someone sent me this offer I could not hit reject quick enough.

Even if Ben Johnson was remaining you are getting signfinicantly younger and with little to no estimated production dropoff. The gap in value between Monty and Hampton due to thier ages is immense. Different ballparks.

But Ben Johnson leaving should IMO be considered a huge deal. IIRC ASRB's breakout late in his rookie season coincided with Dan Campell taking over play calling duties and promotoing Ben Johnson to passing game co-ordinator. Not only did Ben Johnson know how to unlock ASRB he has an incredible knack for knowing how to utilize multiple options and not have players unhappy over their role.

I'll give an unpopluar take. ASRB is not an elite talent. He's very good of course, a bit of a modern day Hines Ward who was one of my all time favoite players but he's not some kind of top 10 elite pass catching talent. He's been helped immensely by the system and cast and a lot of that just changed. I almost hate saying that on these boards because the ASRB love is strong here and I'm not looking for the ASRB horde to start swarming me today. I'm sure the new OC will try and keep status quo but it's not that easy. Please leave me alone ASRB horde, lol.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Should I deal formerly “untouchable” ARSB + Monty for BTJ + Hampton?

Win-now team but RBs are getting older (Mixon, Monty, Chase Brown)

We’ve chatted about it. Not a lock it would be accepted but it might. Why am I hesitating to offer it?

Heck yes

He got cold feet. Sigh.

 

[menobrown]

Should I deal formerly “untouchable” ARSB + Monty for BTJ + Hampton?

Win-now team but RBs are getting older (Mixon, Monty, Chase Brown)

We’ve chatted about it. Not a lock it would be accepted but it might. Why am I hesitating to offer it?

Heck yes

He got cold feet. Sigh.

I'd try and flip him something extra to warm him back up.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Honestly can't imagine NOT smashing accept as quickly as possible.

Well, because it’s not an offer to me. There’s nothing to smash. lol

I have much fondness for ARSB. He’s a favorite player. And I have no idea how the Hampton/Najee split will look while Monty has a fairly predictable (and high floor) role.

I did read that after I posted, thought it was offer you were sent. So on the flip side if someone sent me this offer I could not hit reject quick enough.

Even if Ben Johnson was remaining you are getting signfinicantly younger and with little to no estimated production dropoff. The gap in value between Monty and Hampton due to thier ages is immense. Different ballparks.

But Ben Johnson leaving should IMO be considered a huge deal. IIRC ASRB's breakout late in his rookie season coincided with Dan Campell taking over play calling duties and promotoing Ben Johnson to passing game co-ordinator. Not only did Ben Johnson know how to unlock ASRB he has an incredible knack for knowing how to utilize multiple options and not have players unhappy over their role.

I'll give an unpopluar take. ASRB is not an elite talent. He's very good of course, a bit of a modern day Hines Ward who was one of my all time favoite players but he's not some kind of top 10 elite pass catching talent. He's been helped immensely by the system and cast and a lot of that just changed. I almost hate saying that on these boards because the ASRB love is strong here and I'm not looking for the ASRB horde to start swarming me today. I'm sure the new OC will try and keep status quo but it's not that easy. Please leave me alone ASRB horde, lol.

Ok given that they changed their mind, would you swap ARSB for BTJ and Harvey?

 

[menobrown]

Honestly can't imagine NOT smashing accept as quickly as possible.

Well, because it’s not an offer to me. There’s nothing to smash. lol

I have much fondness for ARSB. He’s a favorite player. And I have no idea how the Hampton/Najee split will look while Monty has a fairly predictable (and high floor) role.

I did read that after I posted, thought it was offer you were sent. So on the flip side if someone sent me this offer I could not hit reject quick enough.

Even if Ben Johnson was remaining you are getting signfinicantly younger and with little to no estimated production dropoff. The gap in value between Monty and Hampton due to thier ages is immense. Different ballparks.

But Ben Johnson leaving should IMO be considered a huge deal. IIRC ASRB's breakout late in his rookie season coincided with Dan Campell taking over play calling duties and promotoing Ben Johnson to passing game co-ordinator. Not only did Ben Johnson know how to unlock ASRB he has an incredible knack for knowing how to utilize multiple options and not have players unhappy over their role.

I'll give an unpopluar take. ASRB is not an elite talent. He's very good of course, a bit of a modern day Hines Ward who was one of my all time favoite players but he's not some kind of top 10 elite pass catching talent. He's been helped immensely by the system and cast and a lot of that just changed. I almost hate saying that on these boards because the ASRB love is strong here and I'm not looking for the ASRB horde to start swarming me today. I'm sure the new OC will try and keep status quo but it's not that easy. Please leave me alone ASRB horde, lol.

Ok given that they changed their mind, would you swap ARSB for BTJ and Harvey?

BTJ >ARSB so that's at minimum free Harvey.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Honestly can't imagine NOT smashing accept as quickly as possible.

Well, because it’s not an offer to me. There’s nothing to smash. lol

I have much fondness for ARSB. He’s a favorite player. And I have no idea how the Hampton/Najee split will look while Monty has a fairly predictable (and high floor) role.

I did read that after I posted, thought it was offer you were sent. So on the flip side if someone sent me this offer I could not hit reject quick enough.

Even if Ben Johnson was remaining you are getting signfinicantly younger and with little to no estimated production dropoff. The gap in value between Monty and Hampton due to thier ages is immense. Different ballparks.

But Ben Johnson leaving should IMO be considered a huge deal. IIRC ASRB's breakout late in his rookie season coincided with Dan Campell taking over play calling duties and promotoing Ben Johnson to passing game co-ordinator. Not only did Ben Johnson know how to unlock ASRB he has an incredible knack for knowing how to utilize multiple options and not have players unhappy over their role.

I'll give an unpopluar take. ASRB is not an elite talent. He's very good of course, a bit of a modern day Hines Ward who was one of my all time favoite players but he's not some kind of top 10 elite pass catching talent. He's been helped immensely by the system and cast and a lot of that just changed. I almost hate saying that on these boards because the ASRB love is strong here and I'm not looking for the ASRB horde to start swarming me today. I'm sure the new OC will try and keep status quo but it's not that easy. Please leave me alone ASRB horde, lol.

Ok given that they changed their mind, would you swap ARSB for BTJ and Harvey?

BTJ >ARSB so that's at minimum free Harvey.

He got cold feet on moving BTJ.

 

[InDitkaWeTrust]

Honestly can't imagine NOT smashing accept as quickly as possible.

Well, because it’s not an offer to me. There’s nothing to smash. lol

I have much fondness for ARSB. He’s a favorite player. And I have no idea how the Hampton/Najee split will look while Monty has a fairly predictable (and high floor) role.

I did read that after I posted, thought it was offer you were sent. So on the flip side if someone sent me this offer I could not hit reject quick enough.

Even if Ben Johnson was remaining you are getting signfinicantly younger and with little to no estimated production dropoff. The gap in value between Monty and Hampton due to thier ages is immense. Different ballparks.

But Ben Johnson leaving should IMO be considered a huge deal. IIRC ASRB's breakout late in his rookie season coincided with Dan Campell taking over play calling duties and promotoing Ben Johnson to passing game co-ordinator. Not only did Ben Johnson know how to unlock ASRB he has an incredible knack for knowing how to utilize multiple options and not have players unhappy over their role.

I'll give an unpopluar take. ASRB is not an elite talent. He's very good of course, a bit of a modern day Hines Ward who was one of my all time favoite players but he's not some kind of top 10 elite pass catching talent. He's been helped immensely by the system and cast and a lot of that just changed. I almost hate saying that on these boards because the ASRB love is strong here and I'm not looking for the ASRB horde to start swarming me today. I'm sure the new OC will try and keep status quo but it's not that easy. Please leave me alone ASRB horde, lol.

Thank you for articulating (BOLDED) what I've been thinking for a while now and why I'm actively pursuing Luther Burden III.

 

[FarFromHome]

Honestly can't imagine NOT smashing accept as quickly as possible.

Well, because it’s not an offer to me. There’s nothing to smash. lol

I have much fondness for ARSB. He’s a favorite player. And I have no idea how the Hampton/Najee split will look while Monty has a fairly predictable (and high floor) role.

I did read that after I posted, thought it was offer you were sent. So on the flip side if someone sent me this offer I could not hit reject quick enough.

Even if Ben Johnson was remaining you are getting signfinicantly younger and with little to no estimated production dropoff. The gap in value between Monty and Hampton due to thier ages is immense. Different ballparks.

But Ben Johnson leaving should IMO be considered a huge deal. IIRC ASRB's breakout late in his rookie season coincided with Dan Campell taking over play calling duties and promotoing Ben Johnson to passing game co-ordinator. Not only did Ben Johnson know how to unlock ASRB he has an incredible knack for knowing how to utilize multiple options and not have players unhappy over their role.

I'll give an unpopluar take. ASRB is not an elite talent. He's very good of course, a bit of a modern day Hines Ward who was one of my all time favoite players but he's not some kind of top 10 elite pass catching talent. He's been helped immensely by the system and cast and a lot of that just changed. I almost hate saying that on these boards because the ASRB love is strong here and I'm not looking for the ASRB horde to start swarming me today. I'm sure the new OC will try and keep status quo but it's not that easy. Please leave me alone ASRB horde, lol.

Ok given that they changed their mind, would you swap ARSB for BTJ and Harvey?

BTJ >ARSB so that's at minimum free Harvey.

Strictly my opinion of course. ARSB doesn't have the physical talent of Calvin Johnson or Randy Moss. Prolly doesn't been have the talent of OBJ. Where he is equal or exceeds them all is the mental portion of being an elite athlete and why i have him quite a bit above Thomas Jr. ARSB's mental focus and training to improve is the closest we have seen to Mr. Rice. His upbringing and strength of family has nurtured that. I am in one league and in that league I own him. I wouldn't move him for Thomas and Harvey. Im not some big homer guy I just feel with his pedigree he is doing the little things all off-season to improve. So many athletes are so gifted they can give 50% in the off-season. This dude is 100% everyday. Imo

 

[menobrown]

Honestly can't imagine NOT smashing accept as quickly as possible.

Well, because it’s not an offer to me. There’s nothing to smash. lol

I have much fondness for ARSB. He’s a favorite player. And I have no idea how the Hampton/Najee split will look while Monty has a fairly predictable (and high floor) role.

I did read that after I posted, thought it was offer you were sent. So on the flip side if someone sent me this offer I could not hit reject quick enough.

Even if Ben Johnson was remaining you are getting signfinicantly younger and with little to no estimated production dropoff. The gap in value between Monty and Hampton due to thier ages is immense. Different ballparks.

But Ben Johnson leaving should IMO be considered a huge deal. IIRC ASRB's breakout late in his rookie season coincided with Dan Campell taking over play calling duties and promotoing Ben Johnson to passing game co-ordinator. Not only did Ben Johnson know how to unlock ASRB he has an incredible knack for knowing how to utilize multiple options and not have players unhappy over their role.

I'll give an unpopluar take. ASRB is not an elite talent. He's very good of course, a bit of a modern day Hines Ward who was one of my all time favoite players but he's not some kind of top 10 elite pass catching talent. He's been helped immensely by the system and cast and a lot of that just changed. I almost hate saying that on these boards because the ASRB love is strong here and I'm not looking for the ASRB horde to start swarming me today. I'm sure the new OC will try and keep status quo but it's not that easy. Please leave me alone ASRB horde, lol.

Thank you for articulating (BOLDED) what I've been thinking for a while now and why I'm actively pursuing Luther Burden III.

Thank you and I feel the same away about Burden's potential with Ben Johnson. Burden is in fact much more naturally talented IMO but the work ethic and will may be far off is how it could go wrong.

I've had ASRB on team where I drafted him at 2.10 or 2.11. Might be best draft pick I've made in 13 or 14 year history of the league. I drafted Burden at 1.12 thinking/hoping I can replicate this success again, even if it costs me more.

 

[menobrown]

Honestly can't imagine NOT smashing accept as quickly as possible.

Well, because it’s not an offer to me. There’s nothing to smash. lol

I have much fondness for ARSB. He’s a favorite player. And I have no idea how the Hampton/Najee split will look while Monty has a fairly predictable (and high floor) role.

I did read that after I posted, thought it was offer you were sent. So on the flip side if someone sent me this offer I could not hit reject quick enough.

Even if Ben Johnson was remaining you are getting signfinicantly younger and with little to no estimated production dropoff. The gap in value between Monty and Hampton due to thier ages is immense. Different ballparks.

But Ben Johnson leaving should IMO be considered a huge deal. IIRC ASRB's breakout late in his rookie season coincided with Dan Campell taking over play calling duties and promotoing Ben Johnson to passing game co-ordinator. Not only did Ben Johnson know how to unlock ASRB he has an incredible knack for knowing how to utilize multiple options and not have players unhappy over their role.

I'll give an unpopluar take. ASRB is not an elite talent. He's very good of course, a bit of a modern day Hines Ward who was one of my all time favoite players but he's not some kind of top 10 elite pass catching talent. He's been helped immensely by the system and cast and a lot of that just changed. I almost hate saying that on these boards because the ASRB love is strong here and I'm not looking for the ASRB horde to start swarming me today. I'm sure the new OC will try and keep status quo but it's not that easy. Please leave me alone ASRB horde, lol.

Ok given that they changed their mind, would you swap ARSB for BTJ and Harvey?

BTJ >ARSB so that's at minimum free Harvey.

Strictly my opinion of course. ARSB doesn't have the physical talent of Calvin Johnson or Randy Moss. Prolly doesn't been have the talent of OBJ. Where he is equal or exceeds them all is the mental portion of being an elite athlete and why i have him quite a bit above Thomas Jr. ARSB's mental focus and training to improve is the closest we have seen to Mr. Rice. His upbringing and strength of family has nurtured that. I am in one league and in that league I own him. I wouldn't move him for Thomas and Harvey. Im not some big homer guy I just feel with his pedigree he is doing the little things all off-season to improve. So many athletes are so gifted they can give 50% in the off-season. This dude is 100% everyday. Imo

You are certainly entitled to your opinion and you won't be alone here even though I'm obviously not seeing it in the same way you are, not really any of it.

But did want to be clear when I said I don't consider ASRB a top 10 elite type talent I meant right now among current NFL WR's. You started throwing out names of all time great talents and I just wanted to clarify I mean just among current WR's. LIke I said earlier, he is more to me like a modern day Hines Ward, who I probably root for to be HOF player then any past player. Loved that guy. Feel like if you threw prime Hines Ward in this Lions offense he'd do ASRB things but I will say that and also say I don't think Hines was any kind of elite natural talent. Just a good match of the player and system and embodiment of the style the team wants to play.

 

[-OZ-]

said I don't consider ASRB a top 10 elite type talent I meant right now among current NFL WR's.

If you include work ethic and conscientiousness as talent, I’d disagree. Dude is the kind of player we’d all want our team to have, regardless of measurables.

Jerry rice wasn’t the most naturally talented guy either. Just the GOAT.

 

[FarFromHome]

said I don't consider ASRB a top 10 elite type talent I meant right now among current NFL WR's.

If you include work ethic and conscientiousness as talent, I’d disagree. Dude is the kind of player we’d all want our team to have, regardless of measurables.

Jerry rice wasn’t the most naturally talented guy either. Just the GOAT.

Also toss in hands and route running.

 

[menobrown]

said I don't consider ASRB a top 10 elite type talent I meant right now among current NFL WR's.

If you include work ethic and conscientiousness as talent, I’d disagree. Dude is the kind of player we’d all want our team to have, regardless of measurables.

Jerry rice wasn’t the most naturally talented guy either. Just the GOAT.

I expect a lot of people to disagree with me and I'm fine with that but if you took someone like Devonta Smith and switched teams I just don't think there would be a lot of disagreement. He's just in a system that allows itself for a lot of stats and that's what people base their view on.

 

[-OZ-]

said I don't consider ASRB a top 10 elite type talent I meant right now among current NFL WR's.

If you include work ethic and conscientiousness as talent, I’d disagree. Dude is the kind of player we’d all want our team to have, regardless of measurables.

Jerry rice wasn’t the most naturally talented guy either. Just the GOAT.

I expect a lot of people to disagree with me and I'm fine with that but if you took someone like Devonta Smith and switched teams I just don't think there would be a lot of disagreement. He's just in a system that allows itself for a lot of stats and that's what people base their view on.

I’m no expert but I see a player who does everything his coach wants. A better Wes welker type (not exactly).

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

said I don't consider ASRB a top 10 elite type talent I meant right now among current NFL WR's.

If you include work ethic and conscientiousness as talent, I’d disagree. Dude is the kind of player we’d all want our team to have, regardless of measurables.

Jerry rice wasn’t the most naturally talented guy either. Just the GOAT.

Also toss in hands and route running.

And willingness to play through injury and zero off field problems.