Espn reporting Goodell confirmed Patriots using camera (1 Viewer)

[packersfan]

Update from RotoWorld. If this is all the Pats get, that's just a slap on the wrist. Losing a third is nothing.FOXSports.com's John Czarnecki reports the Patriots could lose a third-round pick after being caught stealing signals in regular season games.Some around the league are pushing for the Pats to lose multiple draft choices, and strong consideration is reportedly being given to suspending coach Bill Belichick for one year. Czarnecki also says that cheating has been going on for decades in both college and pro football and that Belichick may have done it because he knows his opponents are too.Source: FOXSports.com

And losing Belichick for a year???

Is excessive.

I'd say that is an appropriate penalty.

It's nothing. It's hardly a deterrent to prevent teams from doing it in the future. If all it will cost is a third teams should be lining up to cheat every week. I'd say they should lose two picks, including one first, and Belichick should get suspended 4 games. Goodell has been very effective in terms of sending strong messages so far in his tenure but if he lets the Patriots get off this easy (assuming they're guilty, of course) he'll have caved big time in my opinion.

 

[Marc Levin]

Update from RotoWorld. If this is all the Pats get, that's just a slap on the wrist. Losing a third is nothing.FOXSports.com's John Czarnecki reports the Patriots could lose a third-round pick after being caught stealing signals in regular season games.Some around the league are pushing for the Pats to lose multiple draft choices, and strong consideration is reportedly being given to suspending coach Bill Belichick for one year. Czarnecki also says that cheating has been going on for decades in both college and pro football and that Belichick may have done it because he knows his opponents are too.Source: FOXSports.com

And losing Belichick for a year???

Is excessive.

I'd say that is an appropriate penalty.

It's nothing. It's hardly a deterrent to prevent teams from doing it in the future. If all it will cost is a third teams should be lining up to cheat every week. I'd say they should lose two picks, including one first, and Belichick should get suspended 4 games. Goodell has been very effective in terms of sending strong messages so far in his tenure but if he lets the Patriots get off this easy (assuming they're guilty, of course) he'll have caved big time in my opinion.

?? Suspending Belichick for a year, but penalizing the team only a third-rounder, punishes the right person and keeps Kraft on the league's side without him having to come down on his own head coach for losing the team 1st round picks.I think it is the perfect solution for boththe Pats and the league.

 

[Marc Levin]

It's all speculation. All of it. The degree of actual filiming. The people with knowledge. The level of impact. The usage. The potential punishment. The public opinion. It all means nothing. Thre Patriots are in violation of improper camera use. That's it. They will be punished according to that violation. If the NFL has any additional proof on how this was being used aside from SPECULATION, the punishment will increase. Until then, it's a violation of one league rule with mounds of speculation. This has mostly been fueled by purists who are unhappy with the tactic, media looking to make a name for themselves, and scorned NFL fans.Converserly, it is being defended and deflected adamantly by Patriots fans reacting out of pure emotion and fear. This is all fueled and flamed but in two weeks it will be an after thought for most.

Don't fool yourself - part of the Commish's investigation wil include talking to the teams that are complaining about the Pats' behavior last year

 

[Reaper]

Update from RotoWorld. If this is all the Pats get, that's just a slap on the wrist. Losing a third is nothing.FOXSports.com's John Czarnecki reports the Patriots could lose a third-round pick after being caught stealing signals in regular season games.Some around the league are pushing for the Pats to lose multiple draft choices, and strong consideration is reportedly being given to suspending coach Bill Belichick for one year. Czarnecki also says that cheating has been going on for decades in both college and pro football and that Belichick may have done it because he knows his opponents are too.Source: FOXSports.com

And losing Belichick for a year???

Is excessive.

I'd say that is an appropriate penalty.

It's nothing. It's hardly a deterrent to prevent teams from doing it in the future. If all it will cost is a third teams should be lining up to cheat every week. I'd say they should lose two picks, including one first, and Belichick should get suspended 4 games. Goodell has been very effective in terms of sending strong messages so far in his tenure but if he lets the Patriots get off this easy (assuming they're guilty, of course) he'll have caved big time in my opinion.

?? Suspending Belichick for a year, but penalizing the team only a third-rounder, punishes the right person and keeps Kraft on the league's side without him having to come down on his own head coach for losing the team 1st round picks.I think it is the perfect solution for boththe Pats and the league.

As much as I see incredible humor in all this, especially the Fan reations.I really think just a 3rd round pick loss is what should be expected, if that.

 

[Workhorse]

Update from RotoWorld. If this is all the Pats get, that's just a slap on the wrist. Losing a third is nothing.FOXSports.com's John Czarnecki reports the Patriots could lose a third-round pick after being caught stealing signals in regular season games.Some around the league are pushing for the Pats to lose multiple draft choices, and strong consideration is reportedly being given to suspending coach Bill Belichick for one year. Czarnecki also says that cheating has been going on for decades in both college and pro football and that Belichick may have done it because he knows his opponents are too.Source: FOXSports.com

And losing Belichick for a year???

Is excessive.

I'd say that is an appropriate penalty.

It's nothing. It's hardly a deterrent to prevent teams from doing it in the future. If all it will cost is a third teams should be lining up to cheat every week. I'd say they should lose two picks, including one first, and Belichick should get suspended 4 games. Goodell has been very effective in terms of sending strong messages so far in his tenure but if he lets the Patriots get off this easy (assuming they're guilty, of course) he'll have caved big time in my opinion.

"Caved" in the eyes of the fans and the media. Let's clarify that. What if Goodell is getting the opinion of unbiased football people (ie. former players and coaches who have nothing to gain or lose by this whole Belichick thing) and they essentially tell him that this isn't that significant an infraction in terms of competitive balance? Would you still have the same opinion on the ruling?

 

[jonessed]

Update from RotoWorld. If this is all the Pats get, that's just a slap on the wrist. Losing a third is nothing.FOXSports.com's John Czarnecki reports the Patriots could lose a third-round pick after being caught stealing signals in regular season games.Some around the league are pushing for the Pats to lose multiple draft choices, and strong consideration is reportedly being given to suspending coach Bill Belichick for one year. Czarnecki also says that cheating has been going on for decades in both college and pro football and that Belichick may have done it because he knows his opponents are too.Source: FOXSports.com

And losing Belichick for a year???

Is excessive.

I'd say that is an appropriate penalty.

It's nothing. It's hardly a deterrent to prevent teams from doing it in the future. If all it will cost is a third teams should be lining up to cheat every week. I'd say they should lose two picks, including one first, and Belichick should get suspended 4 games. Goodell has been very effective in terms of sending strong messages so far in his tenure but if he lets the Patriots get off this easy (assuming they're guilty, of course) he'll have caved big time in my opinion.

?? Suspending Belichick for a year, but penalizing the team only a third-rounder, punishes the right person and keeps Kraft on the league's side without him having to come down on his own head coach for losing the team 1st round picks.I think it is the perfect solution for boththe Pats and the league.

Althought Belichick will take the brunt of it for something like this to work it would have had to involve other coaches and players. Brady had to be involved obviously. Not saying he should or should not be suspended, just thinking out loud.

 

[greenline]

It's all speculation. All of it. The degree of actual filiming. The people with knowledge. The level of impact. The usage. The potential punishment. The public opinion. It all means nothing. Thre Patriots are in violation of improper camera use. That's it. They will be punished according to that violation. If the NFL has any additional proof on how this was being used aside from SPECULATION, the punishment will increase. Until then, it's a violation of one league rule with mounds of speculation. This has mostly been fueled by purists who are unhappy with the tactic, media looking to make a name for themselves, and scorned NFL fans.Converserly, it is being defended and deflected adamantly by Patriots fans reacting out of pure emotion and fear. This is all fueled and flamed but in two weeks it will be an after thought for most.

Don't fool yourself - part of the Commish's investigation wil include talking to the teams that are complaining about the Pats' behavior last year

So what, though? It's still speculation. Nothing was ever proven and nothing formal was ever submitted. Whether it happened or not, it holds no water.

 

[David Yudkin]

Don't fool yourself - part of the Commish's investigation wil include talking to the teams that are complaining about the Pats' behavior last year

And I'm sure the Pats will have a cavalcade of allegations as to what other teams are doing to present to the league.

 

[Workhorse]

Don't fool yourself - part of the Commish's investigation wil include talking to the teams that are complaining about the Pats' behavior last year

And I'm sure the Pats will have a cavalcade of allegations as to what other teams are doing to present to the league.

The Patriots will become the Raiders of the new millenium.Ugh.

 

[packersfan]

Update from RotoWorld. If this is all the Pats get, that's just a slap on the wrist. Losing a third is nothing.FOXSports.com's John Czarnecki reports the Patriots could lose a third-round pick after being caught stealing signals in regular season games.Some around the league are pushing for the Pats to lose multiple draft choices, and strong consideration is reportedly being given to suspending coach Bill Belichick for one year. Czarnecki also says that cheating has been going on for decades in both college and pro football and that Belichick may have done it because he knows his opponents are too.Source: FOXSports.com

And losing Belichick for a year???

Is excessive.

I'd say that is an appropriate penalty.

It's nothing. It's hardly a deterrent to prevent teams from doing it in the future. If all it will cost is a third teams should be lining up to cheat every week. I'd say they should lose two picks, including one first, and Belichick should get suspended 4 games. Goodell has been very effective in terms of sending strong messages so far in his tenure but if he lets the Patriots get off this easy (assuming they're guilty, of course) he'll have caved big time in my opinion.

"Caved" in the eyes of the fans and the media. Let's clarify that. What if Goodell is getting the opinion of unbiased football people (ie. former players and coaches who have nothing to gain or lose by this whole Belichick thing) and they essentially tell him that this isn't that significant an infraction in terms of competitive balance? Would you still have the same opinion on the ruling?

Yup. I think it's cheating and if you're going to present an appearance that cheating is wrong in your sport than you need to come down hard on the people who do it.

 

[greenline]

Don't fool yourself - part of the Commish's investigation wil include talking to the teams that are complaining about the Pats' behavior last year

And I'm sure the Pats will have a cavalcade of allegations as to what other teams are doing to present to the league.

Exactly. It's all allegations. All you can do is punish them for violating the rule you caught them violating. If you see pass interference, you call pass interference. The ref doesn't come over and say "well, the Nose Tackle said the Center was holding so let's add that in there."

 

[massraider]

A 3rd round pick is nothing, a minor slap on the wrist, and would probably just make any culprits a bit less stupid about their cheating.

Start at a 1st round pick, and go from there. Anything else, and Mr. Blood and Guts Goodell shows he is fine pushing around players, but when something that actually affects the integrity of the games is involved, he is no vigilante.

Heck, Pac Man is banned for a year, without any convictions (as a pro, anyway), and none of his transgressions tainted the on-the-field game in any way. We have the winners of 3 recent Super Bowls and supposed model of how to run your franchise caught up in something that could easily change the outcome of games.

And they forfeit a 3rd round pick? That ain't sheet as far as I am concerned.

Look, nothing is proven yet, nothing is confirmed. Everyone knows that. But when a kernel of a story comes out, and then more stories and comments that corroborate that kernel, well, it doesn't look good for anyone in New England.

 

[jonessed]

Update from RotoWorld. If this is all the Pats get, that's just a slap on the wrist. Losing a third is nothing.FOXSports.com's John Czarnecki reports the Patriots could lose a third-round pick after being caught stealing signals in regular season games.Some around the league are pushing for the Pats to lose multiple draft choices, and strong consideration is reportedly being given to suspending coach Bill Belichick for one year. Czarnecki also says that cheating has been going on for decades in both college and pro football and that Belichick may have done it because he knows his opponents are too.Source: FOXSports.com

And losing Belichick for a year???

Is excessive.

I'd say that is an appropriate penalty.

It's nothing. It's hardly a deterrent to prevent teams from doing it in the future. If all it will cost is a third teams should be lining up to cheat every week. I'd say they should lose two picks, including one first, and Belichick should get suspended 4 games. Goodell has been very effective in terms of sending strong messages so far in his tenure but if he lets the Patriots get off this easy (assuming they're guilty, of course) he'll have caved big time in my opinion.

"Caved" in the eyes of the fans and the media. Let's clarify that. What if Goodell is getting the opinion of unbiased football people (ie. former players and coaches who have nothing to gain or lose by this whole Belichick thing) and they essentially tell him that this isn't that significant an infraction in terms of competitive balance? Would you still have the same opinion on the ruling?

Yup. I think it's cheating and if you're going to present an appearance that cheating is wrong in your sport than you need to come down hard on the people who do it.

Goodell has kind of backed himself into a corner. He's been really harsh on players so I don't see how he can't be equally as harsh on an organization.

 

[Banger]

Update from RotoWorld. If this is all the Pats get, that's just a slap on the wrist. Losing a third is nothing.FOXSports.com's John Czarnecki reports the Patriots could lose a third-round pick after being caught stealing signals in regular season games.Some around the league are pushing for the Pats to lose multiple draft choices, and strong consideration is reportedly being given to suspending coach Bill Belichick for one year. Czarnecki also says that cheating has been going on for decades in both college and pro football and that Belichick may have done it because he knows his opponents are too.Source: FOXSports.com

And losing Belichick for a year???

Is excessive.

I'd say that is an appropriate penalty.

It's nothing. It's hardly a deterrent to prevent teams from doing it in the future. If all it will cost is a third teams should be lining up to cheat every week. I'd say they should lose two picks, including one first, and Belichick should get suspended 4 games. Goodell has been very effective in terms of sending strong messages so far in his tenure but if he lets the Patriots get off this easy (assuming they're guilty, of course) he'll have caved big time in my opinion.

"Caved" in the eyes of the fans and the media. Let's clarify that. What if Goodell is getting the opinion of unbiased football people (ie. former players and coaches who have nothing to gain or lose by this whole Belichick thing) and they essentially tell him that this isn't that significant an infraction in terms of competitive balance? Would you still have the same opinion on the ruling?

Yup. I think it's cheating and if you're going to present an appearance that cheating is wrong in your sport than you need to come down hard on the people who do it.

especially when the violating party has specifically been warned (reportedly).

 

[Marc Levin]

It's all speculation. All of it. The degree of actual filiming. The people with knowledge. The level of impact. The usage. The potential punishment. The public opinion. It all means nothing. Thre Patriots are in violation of improper camera use. That's it. They will be punished according to that violation. If the NFL has any additional proof on how this was being used aside from SPECULATION, the punishment will increase. Until then, it's a violation of one league rule with mounds of speculation. This has mostly been fueled by purists who are unhappy with the tactic, media looking to make a name for themselves, and scorned NFL fans.Converserly, it is being defended and deflected adamantly by Patriots fans reacting out of pure emotion and fear. This is all fueled and flamed but in two weeks it will be an after thought for most.

Don't fool yourself - part of the Commish's investigation wil include talking to the teams that are complaining about the Pats' behavior last year

So what, though? It's still speculation. Nothing was ever proven and nothing formal was ever submitted. Whether it happened or not, it holds no water.

Do you have some knowledge of what holds water for the commish? Or of what evidence he is allowed to/will consider during an investigation? Do you have inside knowledge of the procedures followed under the league's charter?

 

[Phlash]

Brady had to be involved obviously. Not saying he should or should not be suspended, just thinking out loud.

"I invented this thing, I call it a jump-to-conclusions mat"

 

[Banger]

It's all speculation. All of it. The degree of actual filiming. The people with knowledge. The level of impact. The usage. The potential punishment. The public opinion. It all means nothing. Thre Patriots are in violation of improper camera use. That's it. They will be punished according to that violation. If the NFL has any additional proof on how this was being used aside from SPECULATION, the punishment will increase. Until then, it's a violation of one league rule with mounds of speculation. This has mostly been fueled by purists who are unhappy with the tactic, media looking to make a name for themselves, and scorned NFL fans.Converserly, it is being defended and deflected adamantly by Patriots fans reacting out of pure emotion and fear. This is all fueled and flamed but in two weeks it will be an after thought for most.

Don't fool yourself - part of the Commish's investigation wil include talking to the teams that are complaining about the Pats' behavior last year

So what, though? It's still speculation. Nothing was ever proven and nothing formal was ever submitted. Whether it happened or not, it holds no water.

Do you have some knowledge of what holds water for the commish? Or of what evidence he is allowed to/will consider during an investigation? Do you have inside knowledge of the procedures followed under the league's charter?

I'll answer for him...no he doesn't.

 

[jonessed]

Brady had to be involved obviously. Not saying he should or should not be suspended, just thinking out loud.

"I invented this thing, I call it a jump-to-conclusions mat"

What do you propose they were doing with the stolen signals? Sending them to the center?

 

[Marc Levin]

Don't fool yourself - part of the Commish's investigation wil include talking to the teams that are complaining about the Pats' behavior last year

And I'm sure the Pats will have a cavalcade of allegations as to what other teams are doing to present to the league.

And if those situations occurred this year - after the league sent out a reminder memo - it will certainly affect the hashness of the punishment.If the pats have evidence regarding last year to counter evidence of their wrongdoinbg lasdt year, it will bear on that evidence.I ceretainly never said the pats won't be vigorously defending themselves.BTW, I started off in this thread by saying the Pats would lose 2 thirds if it was determined they used the vids to their advantage and only a low level round if they simply violated a rule. If it is a third and one game for Belichick, I think the message will have been sent and this kind of cheating will be very rare from here on out.

 

[David Yudkin]

It doesn't look good for anyone in New England.

IMO, all it looks is that their are allegations and a camera in possession of the NFL. Everything else is wild speculation by the media and folks like us on message boards.I doubt any of us here have any greater knowledge than that, and what ESPN thinks they know, what other teams around the league are suggesting, what's on or not on the tape, what the rules and penalties state or don't state are all factors that I am confident none of us have first hand knowledge of.For now there is a lot of speculation by a lot of parties and the league will sort this out as they see fit.

 

[Marc Levin]

Don't fool yourself - part of the Commish's investigation wil include talking to the teams that are complaining about the Pats' behavior last year

And I'm sure the Pats will have a cavalcade of allegations as to what other teams are doing to present to the league.

The Patriots will become the Raiders of the new millenium.Ugh.

Good - the Raiders suck.signed,the rest of the AFC

 

[JohnnyU]

Update from RotoWorld. If this is all the Pats get, that's just a slap on the wrist. Losing a third is nothing.FOXSports.com's John Czarnecki reports the Patriots could lose a third-round pick after being caught stealing signals in regular season games.Some around the league are pushing for the Pats to lose multiple draft choices, and strong consideration is reportedly being given to suspending coach Bill Belichick for one year. Czarnecki also says that cheating has been going on for decades in both college and pro football and that Belichick may have done it because he knows his opponents are too.Source: FOXSports.com

And losing Belichick for a year???

Is excessive.

I'd say that is an appropriate penalty.

It's nothing. It's hardly a deterrent to prevent teams from doing it in the future. If all it will cost is a third teams should be lining up to cheat every week. I'd say they should lose two picks, including one first, and Belichick should get suspended 4 games. Goodell has been very effective in terms of sending strong messages so far in his tenure but if he lets the Patriots get off this easy (assuming they're guilty, of course) he'll have caved big time in my opinion.

"Caved" in the eyes of the fans and the media. Let's clarify that. What if Goodell is getting the opinion of unbiased football people (ie. former players and coaches who have nothing to gain or lose by this whole Belichick thing) and they essentially tell him that this isn't that significant an infraction in terms of competitive balance? Would you still have the same opinion on the ruling?

Yup. I think it's cheating and if you're going to present an appearance that cheating is wrong in your sport than you need to come down hard on the people who do it.

Goodell has kind of backed himself into a corner. He's been really harsh on players so I don't see how he can't be equally as harsh on an organization.

Somehow I don't think Goodell looks at it as backing himself in a corner. I think he sings to his own tune.

 

[packersfan]

Update from RotoWorld. If this is all the Pats get, that's just a slap on the wrist. Losing a third is nothing.FOXSports.com's John Czarnecki reports the Patriots could lose a third-round pick after being caught stealing signals in regular season games.Some around the league are pushing for the Pats to lose multiple draft choices, and strong consideration is reportedly being given to suspending coach Bill Belichick for one year. Czarnecki also says that cheating has been going on for decades in both college and pro football and that Belichick may have done it because he knows his opponents are too.Source: FOXSports.com

And losing Belichick for a year???

Is excessive.

I'd say that is an appropriate penalty.

It's nothing. It's hardly a deterrent to prevent teams from doing it in the future. If all it will cost is a third teams should be lining up to cheat every week. I'd say they should lose two picks, including one first, and Belichick should get suspended 4 games. Goodell has been very effective in terms of sending strong messages so far in his tenure but if he lets the Patriots get off this easy (assuming they're guilty, of course) he'll have caved big time in my opinion.

"Caved" in the eyes of the fans and the media. Let's clarify that. What if Goodell is getting the opinion of unbiased football people (ie. former players and coaches who have nothing to gain or lose by this whole Belichick thing) and they essentially tell him that this isn't that significant an infraction in terms of competitive balance? Would you still have the same opinion on the ruling?

Yup. I think it's cheating and if you're going to present an appearance that cheating is wrong in your sport than you need to come down hard on the people who do it.

Goodell has kind of backed himself into a corner. He's been really harsh on players so I don't see how he can't be equally as harsh on an organization.

Precisely. If you're going to dump players for a year, 8 games etc. for offenses than you need to come down hard on teams when they screw up. I just think a third and one game for Belichick is nothing.

 

[Angry Beavers]

I think this rule is terrible Seriously, isn't obtaining signs called "gamesmanship"? In baseball, part of the game is to try to steal the other team's signs which is exactly why MLB teams change them every single series! I realize that there is a rule against this, but comeon already! If you don't want someone figuring out your signs, change em'

Heck, I remember one of these shows on ESPN and it was about the GB superbowl run with Favre at the helm. He knew that SF knew his signals so he called for an audible to a particular pattern for his WR. Of course, the WR and he and already agreed to ignore the call, the Dback was sitting on the wrong route and GB gets a TD out of it!

I know that I am in the minority and so be it, but I think the NFL has gone a little overboard here. There is a rule so NE so should lose a draft pick ( 3rd rounder to try to dissuade those in the future). I have no problem punishing NE if they get caught breaking a rule, but I do think the rule itself is over the top!

 

[greenline]

It's all speculation. All of it. The degree of actual filiming. The people with knowledge. The level of impact. The usage. The potential punishment. The public opinion. It all means nothing. Thre Patriots are in violation of improper camera use. That's it. They will be punished according to that violation. If the NFL has any additional proof on how this was being used aside from SPECULATION, the punishment will increase. Until then, it's a violation of one league rule with mounds of speculation. This has mostly been fueled by purists who are unhappy with the tactic, media looking to make a name for themselves, and scorned NFL fans.Converserly, it is being defended and deflected adamantly by Patriots fans reacting out of pure emotion and fear. This is all fueled and flamed but in two weeks it will be an after thought for most.

Don't fool yourself - part of the Commish's investigation wil include talking to the teams that are complaining about the Pats' behavior last year

So what, though? It's still speculation. Nothing was ever proven and nothing formal was ever submitted. Whether it happened or not, it holds no water.

Do you have some knowledge of what holds water for the commish? Or of what evidence he is allowed to/will consider during an investigation? Do you have inside knowledge of the procedures followed under the league's charter?

Do you? It's speculation no matter which way you slice it. He said, she said. They were caught by the NFL filming the Jets. They were never caught by the NFL doing anything else. All we know is what Charlie Casserly has to say, what op-ed columnists think of BB, what this MB thinks is appropriate and what the people hear who wish to be the authority think. It won't hold as much as most you would like.

 

[David Yudkin]

Don't fool yourself - part of the Commish's investigation wil include talking to the teams that are complaining about the Pats' behavior last year

And I'm sure the Pats will have a cavalcade of allegations as to what other teams are doing to present to the league.

And if those situations occurred this year - after the league sent out a reminder memo - it will certainly affect the hashness of the punishment.

Assuming that there is proof or evidence to support past transgressions. For example, if there are 31 other teams that jump on board and say they had similar issues with the Pats' personnel but have nothing to back it up then that's useless. GB is now saying they had to remove this same guy for being on the field last year . . . but they don't have the camera or a tape to supply as evidence. You're a legal guy, would just allegations on this eposiode hold up in court?

 

[jonessed]

Update from RotoWorld. If this is all the Pats get, that's just a slap on the wrist. Losing a third is nothing.FOXSports.com's John Czarnecki reports the Patriots could lose a third-round pick after being caught stealing signals in regular season games.Some around the league are pushing for the Pats to lose multiple draft choices, and strong consideration is reportedly being given to suspending coach Bill Belichick for one year. Czarnecki also says that cheating has been going on for decades in both college and pro football and that Belichick may have done it because he knows his opponents are too.Source: FOXSports.com

And losing Belichick for a year???

Is excessive.

I'd say that is an appropriate penalty.

It's nothing. It's hardly a deterrent to prevent teams from doing it in the future. If all it will cost is a third teams should be lining up to cheat every week. I'd say they should lose two picks, including one first, and Belichick should get suspended 4 games. Goodell has been very effective in terms of sending strong messages so far in his tenure but if he lets the Patriots get off this easy (assuming they're guilty, of course) he'll have caved big time in my opinion.

"Caved" in the eyes of the fans and the media. Let's clarify that. What if Goodell is getting the opinion of unbiased football people (ie. former players and coaches who have nothing to gain or lose by this whole Belichick thing) and they essentially tell him that this isn't that significant an infraction in terms of competitive balance? Would you still have the same opinion on the ruling?

Yup. I think it's cheating and if you're going to present an appearance that cheating is wrong in your sport than you need to come down hard on the people who do it.

Goodell has kind of backed himself into a corner. He's been really harsh on players so I don't see how he can't be equally as harsh on an organization.

Somehow I don't think Goodell looks at it as backing himself in a corner. I think he sings to his own tune.

He gives the impression of being consistent, which is why I think the punishment will be harsh. Perhaps I should have worded it better.

 

[GregR_2]

Update from RotoWorld. If this is all the Pats get, that's just a slap on the wrist. Losing a third is nothing.

FOXSports.com's John Czarnecki reports the Patriots could lose a third-round pick after being caught stealing signals in regular season games.

Some around the league are pushing for the Pats to lose multiple draft choices, and strong consideration is reportedly being given to suspending coach Bill Belichick for one year. Czarnecki also says that cheating has been going on for decades in both college and pro football and that Belichick may have done it because he knows his opponents are too.

Source: FOXSports.com

And losing Belichick for a year???

Is excessive.

I'd say that is an appropriate penalty.

It's nothing. It's hardly a deterrent to prevent teams from doing it in the future. If all it will cost is a third teams should be lining up to cheat every week. I'd say they should lose two picks, including one first, and Belichick should get suspended 4 games. Goodell has been very effective in terms of sending strong messages so far in his tenure but if he lets the Patriots get off this easy (assuming they're guilty, of course) he'll have caved big time in my opinion.

?? Suspending Belichick for a year, but penalizing the team only a third-rounder, punishes the right person and keeps Kraft on the league's side without him having to come down on his own head coach for losing the team 1st round picks.I think it is the perfect solution for boththe Pats and the league.

Keep Kraft on the league's side? Kraft (i.e. the organization) should be fined in the $50k-$100k range, in addition to the draft picks and a BB suspension. He should be coming down on his coach for cheating. His fans should be coming down on the whole organization for sullying the name of their team, and not defending them. Kraft should be held accountable for his organization's gametime actions. The buck ultimately stops with him.

 

[Phlash]

Brady had to be involved obviously. Not saying he should or should not be suspended, just thinking out loud.

"I invented this thing, I call it a jump-to-conclusions mat"

What do you propose they were doing with the stolen signals? Sending them to the center?

Or could it be that the coaches just adjusted their playcalling based on what they saw? Maybe you're just wrong? That might be it.

 

[jonessed]

Brady had to be involved obviously. Not saying he should or should not be suspended, just thinking out loud.

"I invented this thing, I call it a jump-to-conclusions mat"

What do you propose they were doing with the stolen signals? Sending them to the center?

Or could it be that the coaches just adjusted their playcalling based on what they saw? Maybe you're just wrong? That might be it.

Or you're wrong. I'm just speculating. I made that pretty clear.

 

[massraider]

It doesn't look good for anyone in New England.

IMO, all it looks is that their are allegations and a camera in possession of the NFL. Everything else is wild speculation by the media and folks like us on message boards.

I don't think reporters quoting people that would seem to confirm this kind of behavior is wild speculation.My point is is that if there was no fire to go with this smoke, we would hear very little from other people telling the same story. Instead, we are getting stories from all over the place, with people saying the same thing. And that's just in the past 24 hours. That means these writers didn't have to look far to find someone willing to talk about it. As I said, it's not looking good, and frankly, it's looking worse everytime a new story gets posted.

 

[Marc Levin]

and the league will sort this out as they see fit.

Well, the press did a number on Mike Vick and got him a year suspension. Not to turn this into a debate on that issue - I love dogs and I hate what Vickj did, but I def. feel that beating your wife deserves a higher suspension than killing dogs.Press outrage here could increase the penalty.That said, I completely agree that the league will handle this - including investigating it and punishing it - as they see fit.

 

[massraider]

I think this rule is terrible Seriously, isn't obtaining signs called "gamesmanship"? In baseball, part of the game is to try to steal the other team's signs which is exactly why MLB teams change them every single series! I realize that there is a rule against this, but comeon already! If you don't want someone figuring out your signs, change em'Heck, I remember one of these shows on ESPN and it was about the GB superbowl run with Favre at the helm. He knew that SF knew his signals so he called for an audible to a particular pattern for his WR. Of course, the WR and he and already agreed to ignore the call, the Dback was sitting on the wrong route and GB gets a TD out of it! I know that I am in the minority and so be it, but I think the NFL has gone a little overboard here. There is a rule so NE so should lose a draft pick ( 3rd rounder to try to dissuade those in the future). I have no problem punishing NE if they get caught breaking a rule, but I do think the rule itself is over the top!

I think the tuck rule is dumb.See how that works?

 

[David Yudkin]

Keep Kraft on the league's side? Kraft (i.e. the organization) should be fined in the $50k-$100k range, in addition to the draft picks and a BB suspension. He should be coming down on his coach for cheating. His fans should be coming down on the whole organization for sullying the name of their team, and not defending them. Kraft should be held accountable for his organization's gametime actions. The buck ultimately stops with him.

Maybe the Krafts were involved in setting up the guy/equipment and were ringleaders in encouraging the illicit activities? if so, how do you justify a self-imposed disciplinary action against your own coach for following an employer's directive?

 

[massraider]

That said, I completely agree that the league will handle this - including investigating it and punishing it - as they see fit.

I think they will handle it as they see fit, and I think they will see fit to make this go away as quickly and quietly as possible. I do not expect a very harsh penalty.

 

[BaBastage]

Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised to see a very in depth investigation to see how deep the alleged cheating goes. How many coaches and players are involved?

And if it is deemed to be widespread - then I could see investigations of other teams as well.

This is just the tip of the iceberg, imho.

Now... the interesting part will be this: Pat's fans better hope their team continues to dominate their next few games or the speculation is REALLY going to flare up.

(For the record, I am not a Patriot hater. Jealous of their win record, but not a hater.)

 

[sts911911]

Brady had to be involved obviously. Not saying he should or should not be suspended, just thinking out loud.

"I invented this thing, I call it a jump-to-conclusions mat"

What do you propose they were doing with the stolen signals? Sending them to the center?

Or could it be that the coaches just adjusted their playcalling based on what they saw? Maybe you're just wrong? That might be it.

Or you're wrong. I'm just speculating. I made that pretty clear.

How dare you try to smear the image of Tom Brady by thinking out loud... I'm disgusted...

 

[fatness]

Update from RotoWorld. If this is all the Pats get, that's just a slap on the wrist. Losing a third is nothing.

FOXSports.com's John Czarnecki reports the Patriots could lose a third-round pick after being caught stealing signals in regular season games.

Some around the league are pushing for the Pats to lose multiple draft choices, and strong consideration is reportedly being given to suspending coach Bill Belichick for one year. Czarnecki also says that cheating has been going on for decades in both college and pro football and that Belichick may have done it because he knows his opponents are too.

Source: FOXSports.com

"All the other kids are doing it, dad."

 

[Angry Beavers]

I think this rule is terrible Seriously, isn't obtaining signs called "gamesmanship"? In baseball, part of the game is to try to steal the other team's signs which is exactly why MLB teams change them every single series! I realize that there is a rule against this, but comeon already! If you don't want someone figuring out your signs, change em'Heck, I remember one of these shows on ESPN and it was about the GB superbowl run with Favre at the helm. He knew that SF knew his signals so he called for an audible to a particular pattern for his WR. Of course, the WR and he and already agreed to ignore the call, the Dback was sitting on the wrong route and GB gets a TD out of it! I know that I am in the minority and so be it, but I think the NFL has gone a little overboard here. There is a rule so NE so should lose a draft pick ( 3rd rounder to try to dissuade those in the future). I have no problem punishing NE if they get caught breaking a rule, but I do think the rule itself is over the top!

I think the tuck rule is dumb.See how that works?

Yes but I happen to agree with you on that one too.........let's get rid of all the dumb rules and just let em' play ballnext thing will be to regulate where the home teams' cheerleaders can stand and what they can and can't wear....

 

[greenline]

and the league will sort this out as they see fit.

Well, the press did a number on Mike Vick and got him a year suspension. Not to turn this into a debate on that issue - I love dogs and I hate what Vickj did, but I def. feel that beating your wife deserves a higher suspension than killing dogs.Press outrage here could increase the penalty.That said, I completely agree that the league will handle this - including investigating it and punishing it - as they see fit.

Press outrage? It's not nearly as heavy as the Vick ordeal which impacted the country deeply. You are not going to see Camera rights activists picketing outside Gillette. The outrage comes from a small minority which is op-ed columnists and message boards contributors. You are right. Obviously the league will punish as they see fit. The NE will move on and it becomes a non-issue.

 

[reg]

[mike tice]

and you thought i was bad for scalping tickets? muhahahahaha

[/mike tice]

 

[Reaper]

I think this rule is terrible Seriously, isn't obtaining signs called "gamesmanship"? In baseball, part of the game is to try to steal the other team's signs which is exactly why MLB teams change them every single series! I realize that there is a rule against this, but comeon already! If you don't want someone figuring out your signs, change em'Heck, I remember one of these shows on ESPN and it was about the GB superbowl run with Favre at the helm. He knew that SF knew his signals so he called for an audible to a particular pattern for his WR. Of course, the WR and he and already agreed to ignore the call, the Dback was sitting on the wrong route and GB gets a TD out of it! I know that I am in the minority and so be it, but I think the NFL has gone a little overboard here. There is a rule so NE so should lose a draft pick ( 3rd rounder to try to dissuade those in the future). I have no problem punishing NE if they get caught breaking a rule, but I do think the rule itself is over the top!

I think the tuck rule is dumb.See how that works?

And the ironic thing is how quickly Pats fans digested, understood and embraced the Tuck Rule, which millions of fans still say is ridiculous and makes little sense yet, can't understand "FILMING THE SIDELINES IS AGAINST THE RULES".

 

[Red Apples]

this is what happened...

they video tape the defensive signals...

the pats then go in at halftime compare the video to their eye in the sky Polaroids and then say this signal means this defense...so in the 2nd half they will know this signal means they are blitzing from the right or whatever.

then the coach calls in to Brady using the in helmet speaker/mic and gives him the hot play.

Brady doesn't have to be in on it...

i really think its probably only like 3 or 4 coaches in on the videotaping...something like this you wouldn't want everyone knowing about

 

[Marc Levin]

It's all speculation. All of it. The degree of actual filiming. The people with knowledge. The level of impact. The usage. The potential punishment. The public opinion. It all means nothing. Thre Patriots are in violation of improper camera use. That's it. They will be punished according to that violation. If the NFL has any additional proof on how this was being used aside from SPECULATION, the punishment will increase. Until then, it's a violation of one league rule with mounds of speculation. This has mostly been fueled by purists who are unhappy with the tactic, media looking to make a name for themselves, and scorned NFL fans.Converserly, it is being defended and deflected adamantly by Patriots fans reacting out of pure emotion and fear. This is all fueled and flamed but in two weeks it will be an after thought for most.

Don't fool yourself - part of the Commish's investigation wil include talking to the teams that are complaining about the Pats' behavior last year

So what, though? It's still speculation. Nothing was ever proven and nothing formal was ever submitted. Whether it happened or not, it holds no water.

Do you have some knowledge of what holds water for the commish? Or of what evidence he is allowed to/will consider during an investigation? Do you have inside knowledge of the procedures followed under the league's charter?

Do you? It's speculation no matter which way you slice it. He said, she said. They were caught by the NFL filming the Jets. They were never caught by the NFL doing anything else. All we know is what Charlie Casserly has to say, what op-ed columnists think of BB, what this MB thinks is appropriate and what the people hear who wish to be the authority think. It won't hold as much as most you would like.

Nope - though I have good knowledge on how similar situations are played out - the league is a private organization with rules and penalties and procedures of enforcement. How would your job handle an investigation into an emplyee stealing money? Would it punish ONLY for the incident in front of it, or would it consider the evidence of prior deeds of similar misconduct (say, an accusation of stealing office supplies and a fellow employee's complaint of missing money from her purse)? And your company is not even an organization - in an oprganization like the NFL, there are even greater reasons to consider other conduct.Look, you are fooling yourself if you think this punishment and investigation will be centered solely on what happened Sunday. It's not a court of law where the exclusionary rule applies - all relevant information will be considered and used in making a determination and a penalty.

 

[massraider]

Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised to see a very in depth investigation to see how deep the alleged cheating goes. How many coaches and players are involved?And if it is deemed to be widespread - then I could see investigations of other teams as well.This is just the tip of the iceberg, imho.Now... the interesting part will be this: Pat's fans better hope their team continues to dominate their next few games or the speculation is REALLY going to flare up.(For the record, I am not a Patriot hater. Jealous of their win record, but not a hater.)

I agree that it is probably the tip of the iceberg. Let me ask you, do you think the NFL has any desire to have a very noisy, embarrassing, public investigation into their members blatantly breaking rules in order to gain a competitive advantage? It is easy to go after a player, not so much a team. What if the NFL uncovers allegations that the Pats were taping the Rams in the year leading up to the Rams/Pats Super Bowl? You think the NFL wants that? No way.I am quite ready to believe that the NFL would continue to try and keep thi stuff quiet if not for the Mangini/Belicheat feud, which is obviously so nasty that the Jets took the gloves off, had the cameraman chucked, and probably let the media know.

 

[AB in DC]

That's what I'm waiting to see, also. I do suspect there will be a double standard, but I hope I'm wrong about that. If Belichick is guilty of what is alleged, loss of a 5th round pick and a 1-game suspension is pretty much going to be "wink wink, don't get caught next time" and the NFL will have taken a giant step in the direction of Vince McMahon entertainment ---- not a true sport, just there to portray the image of one.

But here's the question: if Goddell never says he's guilty -- just giving the team a fine, or loss of a low draft pick for "violating NFL rules" -- will anyone believe him?

 

[David Yudkin]

It doesn't look good for anyone in New England.

IMO, all it looks is that their are allegations and a camera in possession of the NFL. Everything else is wild speculation by the media and folks like us on message boards.

I don't think reporters quoting people that would seem to confirm this kind of behavior is wild speculation.My point is is that if there was no fire to go with this smoke, we would hear very little from other people telling the same story. Instead, we are getting stories from all over the place, with people saying the same thing. And that's just in the past 24 hours. That means these writers didn't have to look far to find someone willing to talk about it. As I said, it's not looking good, and frankly, it's looking worse everytime a new story gets posted.

My point was that ESPN broke a story saying the league had made certain conclusions and the league itself later stated that they were looking into it and they would be conducting an investigation. In ESPN's version, they concluded what the commissioner had determined and inferred that the Pats were not only guilty and that the penalty phase was already being discussed and that the league may have already determined what the penalty was. Again, the league itself jumped in and said that they had no conclusions, they would talk to the parties involved, and would move forth from there.That right there makes me question what ESPN was actually reporting if the league itself provides a different version of what was happening. Similarly, if coaches or management from 31 other franchises want to jump in and point fingers, that does little in my opinion to prove or disprove the allegations involving the Pats at the Jets this past weekend.Simply saying that other teams suspected the Pats of doing things that may not have conformed to the rules does not make it so. Just like if my neighbor was accused of being a wife beater and I said well, yeah, he looks like a wife beater and maybe he was beating his wife that would add nothing to the case against my neighbor.If the league had already found that the Pats had broken the rules at GB . . .or PIT . . . or wherever else these reports are coming from, then that would have relevance on what happened this week. But coaches and teams jumping on the bandwagon AFTER THE FACT IMO will not have much impact on this individual incident. Those teams needed to take action and get the league involved THEN not now.

 

[Marc Levin]

Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised to see a very in depth investigation to see how deep the alleged cheating goes.

I'd be shocked if they dwelt too long or deep on this. And, if they do, you and I won't hear about it. What incentive does Goddall have to make a huge issue out of this? It smears the game and smears the best organization the game has had over the last 7 years.He wants this punished swiftly, approproately, and then back to the game of football.

 

[NY/NJMFDIVER]

[mike tice]and you thought i was bad for scalping tickets? muhahahahaha[/mike tice]

 

[switz]

Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised to see a very in depth investigation to see how deep the alleged cheating goes.

I'd be shocked if they dwelt too long or deep on this. And, if they do, you and I won't hear about it. What incentive does Goddall have to make a huge issue out of this? It smears the game and smears the best organization the game has had over the last 7 years.He wants this punished swiftly, approproately, and then back to the game of football.