Farve Reinstated; expected to report Monday (1 Viewer)

[packersfan]

From the NFC North blog on ESPN.com:

GREEN BAY, Wis. -- There is quite a scene here at the Green Bay Packers' practice.

A huge crowd is on hand, having shown up thinking Brett Favre would be on the field. However, Favre has left Lambeau Field to continue meeting with team officials.

Fans are chanting, "We want Brett! We want Brett!"

One fan yelled to coach Mike McCarthy, "You've got nowhere to hide!"

Favre and general manager Ted Thompson are meeting now at Favre's home. Favre told ESPN's Rachel Nichols that the sides were discussing trade possibilities.

Stay tuned.

Didn't Goodell say that he decided to reinstate Favre because he wanted this thing resolved?

The only thing that makes sense to me on this is that they're finalizing a trade. They don't want him to go out and twist a knee before they can trade him. That has to be it, right?

J

Maybe but according to one report I saw Bus Cook and Deana both wanted Favre to practice today and Favre decided not to.

 

[Raider Nation]

Wendy Nix reporting a "deal (trade) is in place, but Thompson will NOT trade him to a division rival."

 

[JaxBill]

If you're the Jets, do you call Ted Thompson and tell him that you're still interested in Favre(and see if maybe Brett has maybe changed his mind about going there)?

 

[riverrat]

Wendy Nix reporting a "deal (trade) is in place, but Thompson will NOT trade him to a division rival."

As a Panther fan, I hope that is the Jets and not the Bucs

 

[Hoart Petterson]

From the NFC North blog on ESPN.com:

GREEN BAY, Wis. -- There is quite a scene here at the Green Bay Packers' practice.

A huge crowd is on hand, having shown up thinking Brett Favre would be on the field. However, Favre has left Lambeau Field to continue meeting with team officials.

Fans are chanting, "We want Brett! We want Brett!"

One fan yelled to coach Mike McCarthy, "You've got nowhere to hide!"

Favre and general manager Ted Thompson are meeting now at Favre's home. Favre told ESPN's Rachel Nichols that the sides were discussing trade possibilities.

Stay tuned.

Didn't Goodell say that he decided to reinstate Favre because he wanted this thing resolved?

Goodell's involvement in this is almost as ridiculous as the the situation itself.

 

[packersfan]

If you're the Jets, do you call Ted Thompson and tell him that you're still interested in Favre(and see if maybe Brett has maybe changed his mind about going there)?

If I'm the Jets, I call the Vikings to see what they'd be willing to offer if the Jets can acquire Favre from the Packers.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

Wendy Nix reporting a "deal (trade) is in place, but Thompson will NOT trade him to a division rival."

What's the next step after cutting off your nose to spite your face?

 

[Raider Nation]

Mort on NFL Live:

"The two teams identified as having interest are Bucs and Jets."

Same old, same old.

 

[Todem]

You know NFL football is about 3 things and it is really simple.

1) Please your fans

2) Win

3) Make Money

Which QB helps those 3 things in the hear and now (this is not fantasy football people).

Yeah that's right Brett Favre

1) The fans want Brett

2) He will only help them win now

3) His jersey and marketing for Green Bay is only going to make more money (Green bay is an institution already but Favre is Green Bay right now...he is the face of the franchise right now until he decides to hang them up).

We have talked about his flip flopping ad nausem already and I agree it is a joke....but he is Brett Favre not some 2nd string linemen.

Mark this down right here and right now. If Favre is released or traded (within the division) Ted and Mike are gone next season....they will get their pink slips. Their ego's have blinded them. It is Favre that makes the talent around him rise to another level. All the great QB's of all time have that power. System guy's come and go. It is about talent, toughness and leadership and Favre has all of that.

Rodgers has not had the opportunity I agree.....so what. He has to wait his turn. This is not Steve Young on the bench that is for sure. And he will in all liklyhood based on my own opinion (and we all have them) be an average NFL QB at best.

The Packers front office are being ludicrus. Flat out nut's. The funny thing is the players would embrace Favre and be pumped that their leader is back.

Problem is the ego maniac front office and coach don't want him back because he could not give them an answer back in February. You don't pressure your 3 time MVP Super Bowl winning never misses a game in his life franchise QB to give you an answer a month after playing one of his greatest seasons and coming an overtime away from getting to the big dance. What people forget so easisly is the Packers would have never sniffed the post season without Favre and they won't this season if they go with Rodgers. That is almost a certainty in my eye test.

I am a huge fan of Favre the football player and I want Brett Favre to play football if he wants to. He has more than earned the right to change his mind. Say what you want about the team needs to move on or have a new direction blah blah blah. That does not matter. Only 3 things matter:

1) Make the fans happy

2) Just win baby

3) Be profitable.

Only one of those 3 things will happen in the near future for the Packers. Guess which one that will be and you know why it is so crystal clear why TT and MM will be shown the door if this continues to go as it is. It is to the point of insanity and both sides are to blame no doubt.

Bottom line though and you can argue and point to stats all you want. Who gives your team the best chance to win now. And that is all that matters. I would rather have 3-4 losing seasons in a row but get a world title in between that any day of the week. Then take a step back for 2-3 years for the sake of developing an average prospect to begin with. If Rodgers is so good why did they not show Brett the door after his 2005 and to some degree his 2006 season? TT has drafted well and built a nice squad but he does not have the QB to bring it all together unless his name is Brett Favre.

They being egomaniac's (TT & MM) and if I were a Packer fan I would be outraged that they did not just say ok....we thought we were moving forward but now we are not because we have the opportunity to have our 3 time MVP top tier QB coming back to make one more run at this thing.

Do you really think that the locker room does not want favre back as their leader? My goodness what a nightmare this front office is turning this into.

Yes Brett is to blame too we all know that. But it is a simple fix.....get him back to practice (which he took the first step in doing) and get this thing going again. That team will not miss a beat. OTA's...blah blah blah....now is the time you get your house in order. July and August is when the real men report. 17 year Veterans don't exactly need to be at OTA's (of course it's good they are) but one year missing them is not going to be bad for a guy like Favre.

That's it. I am done. What will be will be.

I just think football is a hell of alot better watching favre compete.

 

[gruecd]

The only thing that makes sense to me on this is that they're finalizing a trade. They don't want him to go out and twist a knee before they can trade him. That has to be it, right?J

That's what common sense would tell you, but as far as this whole thing is concerned, common sense got thrown out the window a long time ago. Honestly, at least for this year, I'm a Brett Favre fan before I'm a Packers fan. They don't deserve my loyalty.

 

[Tau837]

From the NFC North blog on ESPN.com:

GREEN BAY, Wis. -- There is quite a scene here at the Green Bay Packers' practice.

A huge crowd is on hand, having shown up thinking Brett Favre would be on the field. However, Favre has left Lambeau Field to continue meeting with team officials.

Fans are chanting, "We want Brett! We want Brett!"

One fan yelled to coach Mike McCarthy, "You've got nowhere to hide!"

Favre and general manager Ted Thompson are meeting now at Favre's home. Favre told ESPN's Rachel Nichols that the sides were discussing trade possibilities.

Stay tuned.

Didn't Goodell say that he decided to reinstate Favre because he wanted this thing resolved?

How much worse are the Packers going to let this get before they either let him play, trade him to the Vikings, or cut him? They can't let this go on for another week, much less the entire preseason... can they?

 

[fatness]

Wendy Nix reporting a "deal (trade) is in place, but Thompson will NOT trade him to a division rival."

Wendy Nix has gotten all her information from Favre today, so take that report with a grain of salt.

 

[Joe Bryant]

From the NFC North blog on ESPN.com:

GREEN BAY, Wis. -- There is quite a scene here at the Green Bay Packers' practice.

A huge crowd is on hand, having shown up thinking Brett Favre would be on the field. However, Favre has left Lambeau Field to continue meeting with team officials.

Fans are chanting, "We want Brett! We want Brett!"

One fan yelled to coach Mike McCarthy, "You've got nowhere to hide!"

Favre and general manager Ted Thompson are meeting now at Favre's home. Favre told ESPN's Rachel Nichols that the sides were discussing trade possibilities.

Stay tuned.

Didn't Goodell say that he decided to reinstate Favre because he wanted this thing resolved?

Goodell's involvement in this is almost as ridiculous as the the situation itself.

How so?J

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

This is clipped from the article fatness posted.....

"Mike told me, hey, we're a better team with you on it but wanted to know if I have a problem with an open competition," Favre said. "I don't have a problem with competing -- you know that, but Aaron should be the starter right now because he's been out here all this time. This is more than about an open competition and I can do that, absolutely, but this is going to be mass confusion and that's not good for this team.

"I'll practice my butt off, if it comes to that, and I think we all know what the end result will be, but this probably isn't going to work. And I truly understand that if I was in Mike's shoes, I'd see it basically the same way he sees it, I'm sure. And I think if he was in my shoes, he'd see it my way. I think we both agree on that.

Does anyone else read this as Favre saying he welcomes the open competition, but wont' participate in it? Because that's how I read it.Am I off base?

 

[Todem]

Wendy Nix reporting a "deal (trade) is in place, but Thompson will NOT trade him to a division rival."

Wendy Nix has gotten all her information from Favre today, so take that report with a grain of salt.

TT is a jackass. His job is toast after all this is done. Throw in Mcarthy too. They are going to be shown the door.Brett holds all the cards now.

 

[Tom Servo]

Many of you guys arent' old enough to remember when Coke decided to change their flavor to New Coke. I was in college. I remember thinking, "That seems like a terrible idea. But the guys calling the shots at Coke are smart business people making a ton of money. They must know what they're doing."Turns out they did not know what they're doing.I think we're watching the NFL equivalent of that now. If I were a die hard Packers fan (I'm not but I know there are tons that are) I would be beyond right now. Unbelievable if they truly do find a way to screw this up.J

You rolled out a New Coke reference? Brother, I tasted that while in college and it was .To the point...and your analogy. Business do make decisions that they think are right. Think about your own boat business; you've never said, "I'm going to do something that will hurt my business and cause me to lose market share." Nobody in control of their faculities does that. My own employer at one time thought the future of their business was in energy trading; it put them literally DAYS away from Chapter 11 (and trust me, an electric utility in Chapter 11 is not a good thing). Companies do their due diligence; investigate their options, do the cost/benefit analysis and market research and proceed appropriately. Does it always work? No, as anyone who invests in the stock market can attest. The larger point is that the Packers feel the future is with Rogers. Could it bite them? Darn straight it could. So could keeping Favre around for another year. It is also not a given that BF will take GB deep in the playoffs. Part of being an American (citizen or corporation) is that we have the freedom to both succeed AND fail on our own terms...and that is something I support. (If I go any farther, it'll need to be moved to the FFA.) My

 

[Raider Nation]

Wendy Nix reporting a "deal (trade) is in place, but Thompson will NOT trade him to a division rival."

Wendy Nix has gotten all her information from Favre today, so take that report with a grain of salt.

They just showed the Packers' brass leaving Favre's house. Trade speculation abounds.

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

Wendy Nix reporting a "deal (trade) is in place, but Thompson will NOT trade him to a division rival."

Wendy Nix has gotten all her information from Favre today, so take that report with a grain of salt.

TT is a jackass. His job is toast after all this is done. Throw in McCarthy too. They are going to be shown the door.Brett holds all the cards now.

I just cannot understand how both of these guys would hitch their careers to a QB who is untested.I don't get it.

 

[packersfan]

Wendy Nix reporting a "deal (trade) is in place, but Thompson will NOT trade him to a division rival."

Wendy Nix has gotten all her information from Favre today, so take that report with a grain of salt.

TT is a jackass. His job is toast after all this is done. Throw in McCarthy too. They are going to be shown the door.Brett holds all the cards now.

I just cannot understand how both of these guys would hitch their careers to a QB who is untested.I don't get it.

I can understand it if Favre had remained retired. But once a possibly superior option became available the decision should have been an easy one.

 

[Lash]

Haven't se this posted so sorry if a honda

does anyone think the GB mgmt. is being stubborn about this because they virtually wasted two draft picks if Brett unretires and fulfills his contract?

I mean TT is a draft guy right, would they have chosen Brohm/Flynn without the official Favre retirement?

TT couldve drafted a serious player at #52 (hehe another DT woulda been nice the way things look) to make an even bigger push for the elusive super bowl

 

[Tom Servo]

You know NFL football is about 3 things and it is really simple.

1) Please your fans

XAn old baseball adage will help here. It says, "The executive who runs his team to please the fans will soon find himself sitting with them".

 

[FavreCo]

Wendy Nix reporting a "deal (trade) is in place, but Thompson will NOT trade him to a division rival."

Wendy Nix has gotten all her information from Favre today, so take that report with a grain of salt.

TT is a jackass. His job is toast after all this is done. Throw in Mcarthy too. They are going to be shown the door.Brett holds all the cards now.

Only if it blows up in their face, ie a Rodgers injury followed by losses galore and Favre on some other team. Make no mistake, mgmt wanted Favre to stay retired including the reason that if Rodgers did get hurt, they could call him up to save the day, whcih he would have done. However he wants to play now.

 

[Todem]

Wendy Nix reporting a "deal (trade) is in place, but Thompson will NOT trade him to a division rival."

Wendy Nix has gotten all her information from Favre today, so take that report with a grain of salt.

TT is a jackass. His job is toast after all this is done. Throw in McCarthy too. They are going to be shown the door.Brett holds all the cards now.

I just cannot understand how both of these guys would hitch their careers to a QB who is untested.I don't get it.

Oh Dave Wanstach as we in Miami called him hitched his hopes not only to Rick Mirer in the Windy City but our brilliant owner Wayne Huizinga let him hitch his hopes to a guy named Jay Fiedler. And in fact he ran Marino to retirement when he bcame coach ( Marino was pretty shot but he would have played one more year if Wanny told him he wanted him back for an 18th season).There are plenty of guy's in front office roles who miss badly. It is a crap shoot sometimes (check that most of the time).

TT and MM are total morons and it does not take a front office expert to see that. Total ego driven bull####.

 

[T Bell]

I'm just PO'd that Brett is letting the team push him around like this. He's got rights, too. Listen to your wife and your agent and go to practice. Make them trade you. By giving in and going home, he lets the Packers get away with doing exactly what they want to do--nothing.

Just proves he's not 100% about playing, which is why the Packers have been reluctant to welcome him back.

No, it proves that he cares about his soon-to-be-former teammates (to a fault) and that he's not the selfish jerk that all the Favre-haters are making him out to be.

I don't think that's the case, based on the way things seem to have transpired. I'm not saying he doesn't care, I'm just saying I don't think that's why he's not pushing harder. As someone said a while back, there has definitely been a pattern of self-indulgence over the past several years.

I have seen very little self indulgence and also think it shows he cares about his CURRENT teammates. Always has.

Then you're not paying attention.Do you really think that the Packers told him before he reported that there'd be an open competition, and that he reported only to be told that they'd changed their minds? (Actually, a change of minds there would be deserved, but I digress.)

Favre is and has been slowly escalating this showdown. Floating rumors, then confirming the rumors, delaying reinstatement then doing it, then appearing in Green Bay, etc. If he's about playing, he simply announces he's returning, applies for reinstatement, and reports. That's it. Then it's up to the Packers to make it work.

To be fair, unless you know differently, Goodell verbally asked him to hold off on the reinstatement and then sat on the actual request for 4-5 days, right?

Goodell sat on the application for 4 days, but it was the Packers who supposedly got Favre to agree the week before the delay making the application. That doesn't explain the month or more of Favre not making the application.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

If you're the Jets, do you call Ted Thompson and tell him that you're still interested in Favre(and see if maybe Brett has maybe changed his mind about going there)?

Bill...how many games do the Jets win with Favre? In the AFC East where they will not take the division...and there are too many teams to fill up the WC spots...I would be upset if I were a Jetsfan and they traded for him.

 

[fatness]

Favre left practice shortly before 3 p.m. ET Tuesday, telling ESPN's Wendi Nix that he was not going to practice. He said there would be another meeting with his family and Packers GM Ted Thompson to discuss trade possibilities, in the hopes of resolving the situation. That meeting at Favre's house ended at 3:45 p.m. ET.

same ESPN article

 

[MarshallRob]

saying anyone that doesn't is stupid is a highly incorrect line of thinking.

Who is saying that? I don't think I have.I'm saying any GM should be able to see that Favre gives your team the best chance to win.

J

Perhaps for this year, but Thompson to his credit has been building this team to compete for many years to come. I think that's 100% what's at stake here. By putting Favre back on the field, they KNOW he'll beat out Rodgers for the job. But they also know that it'll essentially destroy Rodgers as a viable replacement for Brett in 2009 or 2010 and cramp their financial flexibility in 2009 and beyond, as well.

Really Jason?I keep seeing and hearing this but I'm not sure I buy it. Is Rodgers not man enough to accept he got beat out for the job this year? Will that really ruin him for the future if he's legitimately beaten out for the 2008 job?

What is really the alternative? To say, "we know you're not the best QB, and we know that in a fair competition Favre would beat you out, but we're going to make you the starter anyways"? I just can't see that. Yet that seems to be what I'm hearing folks say.

Don't you have to weigh out the two sides? I mean, when the Oilers were looking at Steve McNair on one hand and Chris Chandler on the other, isn't that a different scenario? They had to look at Chandler and say they weren't going to be getting all that much and it was worth taking the chance to see what they had in McNair.

And not to say it's always about winning right this second with no regard for the future.

One might make a case that Damon Huard might be better today than Brodie Croyle but KC is still going with Croyle. To a lesser extent you see young guys with potential like Tarvaris Jackson over a seasoned guy like Gus Frerotte. Now I think I'd take Croyle and Jackson over the vets straight up, but even if one wouldn't, I think you can make a case that it's worth taking the lumps with a young guy that potentially has the chance to be way better than the vet you have.

And it's because the potential of the new guy far outweighs what you think you'll get out of the vet.

But we're not talking about Steve McNair vs Chris Chandler. You're talking about a 3 time MVP who came in 2nd place last year in the MVP to Tom Brady who had one of the greatest seasons in history.

I guess I just don't see losing out the starting job to the guy coming off a second place MVP season as something that would shatter the guy.

J

People are getting way too worked up trying to blame somebody for this whole mess. I don't know that anybody is to blame. Favre decided he wants to come back and play. That's his right. The Packers have apparently moved on with Rodgers and they no longer want Favre to start for them. That decision is debatable but totally defensible, and Jason's and Joe's arguments on who should starter each have merit. We'll know if a few years who was right on that one.Favre certainly helped create this mess by changing his mind and it would be nice if he didn't have so much trouble making up his mind about retiring but that doesn't make somebody a bad guy. In turn, Favre's desire to come back has created a nightmare situation for the Packers, one in which the team now has NO good options and they clearly know it. If they change their mind and go with Favre they may destroy their relationship with Rodgers and set back the team's long-term prospects. Keeping Favre as a backup is theoretically possible but practically it is not. It splits the locker room and the fan base while placing an inordinate amount of pressure on Rodgers (who would have had quite enough on his plate following Favre without the guy right there looking over his shoulder). I believe Favre has recognized this all along and it partly motivated his desire to be released from the team weeks ago. Finally, releasing or trading Favre isn't palatable either. Not only do the fans have to watch their beloved legendary QB finish his career for someone else (while still playing at a high level), not only could Favre outplay Rodgers and make the Packers top brass look like idiots, but Favre could be playing for a division rival! Some people are dumping on Favre for trying to "orchestrate" a trade to Minnesota but on the face of it the Vikings are clearly the best fit for him given his relationship with the coach there and the fact the team is aleady a playoff contender. More bad luck for the Pack.

Understandably desperate to avoid Favre coming back, the Packers organization has now seemingly burned all bridges between them and Favre. They have mishandled that part if it. If they're truly past the point of no return in turning the page with Rodgers, Favre has to go and the team should have acknowledged this weeks ago. Favre wants to play so what choice does Green Bay have but to deal him? If nobody else wants him, it has to be to Minnesota.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Does Ted Thompson not deserve some benefit of the doubt, given what he's accomplished so far in his tenure?

Yes. The criticism of Ted Thompson reminds me very much of the constant criticism of AJ Smith during his first few years as Chargers GM.If you listened to the fans, everything he did was a huge mistake. Cutting David Boston, drafting-and-trading Eli Manning for three draft picks who have all been Pro Bowlers (instead of passing on Manning to draft Robert Gallery) ... nearly everything he did, he was heavily criticized for, and pretty much every time it has worked out great. People were suggesting that AJ Smith should have been fired immediately after the draft when he selected Antonio Cromartie and Marcus McNeill with the first two picks.

The common theme, though, is that people always criticized AJ Smith for stuff that hadn't played out yet. People thought he should be fired because they predicted that Cromartie wouldn't be a good player ... but they didn't wait to see who was right.

It's the same thing with Ted Thompson now. People might say that Thompson should be fired because they think Aaron Rodgers won't be as good as Brett Favre. But nobody's waiting to see who's right about that.

I would say that if you're going to criticize Thompson for something, you should wait to see how it works out before suggesting he should be fired. If it works out great, the criticism will look silly in hindsight.

I know there were some threads here in the Shark pool skewering Thompson for hiring McCarthy . . . Maybe people should have waited before being so harshly critical.

To say "My opinion differs from Thompson's, so I think he's wrong" is one thing. But to say "My opinion differs from Thompson so I think he should be fired before we wait to find out who was right" seems a bit premature.

 

[T Bell]

This is clipped from the article fatness posted.....

"Mike told me, hey, we're a better team with you on it but wanted to know if I have a problem with an open competition," Favre said. "I don't have a problem with competing -- you know that, but Aaron should be the starter right now because he's been out here all this time. This is more than about an open competition and I can do that, absolutely, but this is going to be mass confusion and that's not good for this team.

"I'll practice my butt off, if it comes to that, and I think we all know what the end result will be, but this probably isn't going to work. And I truly understand that if I was in Mike's shoes, I'd see it basically the same way he sees it, I'm sure. And I think if he was in my shoes, he'd see it my way. I think we both agree on that.

Does anyone else read this as Favre saying he welcomes the open competition, but wont' participate in it? Because that's how I read it.Am I off base?

No, you're not off base. He wants to have it both ways - he wants to say that he's fine with an open competition, but he doesn't want to participate in it, supposedly because it's too much of a distraction to the team. I guess that means he wants to just be handed the starting job in Green Bay . . . that is, to the extent he wants to play in Green Bay at all. And of course he doesn't want to play in Green Bay - he wants to go elsewhere.

 

[Todem]

If you're the Jets, do you call Ted Thompson and tell him that you're still interested in Favre(and see if maybe Brett has maybe changed his mind about going there)?

Bill...how many games do the Jets win with Favre? In the AFC East where they will not take the division...and there are too many teams to fill up the WC spots...I would be upset if I were a Jetsfan and they traded for him.

LMAO.....so what if they trade say a 4th rounder for him or for that matter a 3rd rounder. What football fan would be upset knowing they get to watch this guy play for their team for a season or 2. Yeah I rather watch Chad float a ball 30 yards to Coles or Cotch....LMFAO.What are you talking about man?

 

[Keys Myaths]

I don't think he was insulted by this one particular round of exchanges. I think it was more of a general feeling and came to a head with Joe calling for TT to resign yet not connecting the line of thinking that it might infer that he is "stupid" when it comes to making decisions about Favre this year. I only say this as a casual observer because I too feel the quality of the shark pool has declined as compared with a couple years ago. Too much is taken out of context, people use literal and implied interpretations to win over there side of the discussion and waist posts with attacks or meaningless jokes. I do feel for Joe and the moderators though, unfortunately you can’t just go around warning and banning people because they are annoying and like to argue for the sake of arguing.

I can't disagree with any of this, to be honest. I was just pointing out that it is going on and it seemed to me that he acted surprised by it. We get closer to the FFA in here every day. Although to be fair, I seem to think this happens during this time most seasons as we get an influx of people, some of them new.

It's just gotten worse the past two seasons. Much, much worse. I wish I could point out certain posters, but I really can't. The good ones have left, and for good reason--and the new people that are good are quickly disenchanted with the experience.Yes, it gets worse this time of year, but it's never been remotely this bad. Every time you try to bring up an alternate point of view, you get stuff like this: http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...t&p=8995609

I'm not 'insulted' in the way you think--I'm not going to go home upset or anything like that. My intelligence is insulted. I expected better out of this place.

 

[Keys Myaths]

Wendy Nix reporting a "deal (trade) is in place, but Thompson will NOT trade him to a division rival."

What's the next step after cutting off your nose to spite your face?

Part of me wants this all to end, but this is like every other crappy news story. You can't help but hit refresh.

 

[Michael Fox Fan]

Many of you guys arent' old enough to remember when Coke decided to change their flavor to New Coke. I was in college. I remember thinking, "That seems like a terrible idea. But the guys calling the shots at Coke are smart business people making a ton of money. They must know what they're doing."Turns out they did not know what they're doing.I think we're watching the NFL equivalent of that now. If I were a die hard Packers fan (I'm not but I know there are tons that are) I would be beyond right now. Unbelievable if they truly do find a way to screw this up.J

Great analogy Joe. The best part was when it finally came out that Coke execs had created New Coke w/ the intent of making it taste more like Pepsi. Brilliant!!

 

[packersfan]

Does Ted Thompson not deserve some benefit of the doubt, given what he's accomplished so far in his tenure?

Yes. The criticism of Ted Thompson reminds me very much of the constant criticism of AJ Smith during his first few years as Chargers GM.

I don't think the analogy fits. First off, most people acknowledge the strong work Thompson has done to date. I have been critical of some of his decisions but he clearly has been proven correct far more often than he's been proven incorrect. More importantly, the Chargers never had a player of Favre's stature and at no point in his tenure to date has Thompson had to make a decision involving a player of this magnitude. No team has in recent memory. This is an unprecedented situation in a number of ways so there really isn't a comparison that fits. Thompson's on an island here. My hope is that he doesn't drown the Packers with this decision.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

I don't think he was insulted by this one particular round of exchanges. I think it was more of a general feeling and came to a head with Joe calling for TT to resign yet not connecting the line of thinking that it might infer that he is "stupid" when it comes to making decisions about Favre this year. I only say this as a casual observer because I too feel the quality of the shark pool has declined as compared with a couple years ago. Too much is taken out of context, people use literal and implied interpretations to win over there side of the discussion and waist posts with attacks or meaningless jokes. I do feel for Joe and the moderators though, unfortunately you can’t just go around warning and banning people because they are annoying and like to argue for the sake of arguing.

I can't disagree with any of this, to be honest. I was just pointing out that it is going on and it seemed to me that he acted surprised by it. We get closer to the FFA in here every day. Although to be fair, I seem to think this happens during this time most seasons as we get an influx of people, some of them new.

It's just gotten worse the past two seasons. Much, much worse. I wish I could point out certain posters, but I really can't. The good ones have left, and for good reason--and the new people that are good are quickly disenchanted with the experience.Yes, it gets worse this time of year, but it's never been remotely this bad. Every time you try to bring up an alternate point of view, you get stuff like this: http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...t&p=8995609

I'm not 'insulted' in the way you think--I'm not going to go home upset or anything like that. My intelligence is insulted. I expected better out of this place.

I see, I thought you meant going home upset, etc. My bad. And that reply in the other thread is ridiculous. Way too much of that around here.

 

[Pipes]

Wendy Nix reporting a "deal (trade) is in place, but Thompson will NOT trade him to a division rival."

Wendy Nix has gotten all her information from Favre today, so take that report with a grain of salt.

TT is a jackass. His job is toast after all this is done. Throw in Mcarthy too. They are going to be shown the door.Brett holds all the cards now.

Why McCarthy? He's stuck in the middle IMHO.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

Wendy Nix reporting a "deal (trade) is in place, but Thompson will NOT trade him to a division rival."

What's the next step after cutting off your nose to spite your face?

Part of me wants this all to end, but this is like every other crappy news story. You can't help but hit refresh.

LOL, no kidding. Is this what it feels like to be an addict?

 

[Joe Bryant]

I don't think he was insulted by this one particular round of exchanges. I think it was more of a general feeling and came to a head with Joe calling for TT to resign yet not connecting the line of thinking that it might infer that he is "stupid" when it comes to making decisions about Favre this year. I only say this as a casual observer because I too feel the quality of the shark pool has declined as compared with a couple years ago. Too much is taken out of context, people use literal and implied interpretations to win over there side of the discussion and waist posts with attacks or meaningless jokes. I do feel for Joe and the moderators though, unfortunately you can’t just go around warning and banning people because they are annoying and like to argue for the sake of arguing.

I can't disagree with any of this, to be honest. I was just pointing out that it is going on and it seemed to me that he acted surprised by it. We get closer to the FFA in here every day. Although to be fair, I seem to think this happens during this time most seasons as we get an influx of people, some of them new.

It's just gotten worse the past two seasons. Much, much worse. I wish I could point out certain posters, but I really can't. The good ones have left, and for good reason--and the new people that are good are quickly disenchanted with the experience.Yes, it gets worse this time of year, but it's never been remotely this bad. Every time you try to bring up an alternate point of view, you get stuff like this: http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...t&p=8995609

I'm not 'insulted' in the way you think--I'm not going to go home upset or anything like that. My intelligence is insulted. I expected better out of this place.

Please report the stuff like that you see. I agree that was wrong and the guy's gone for a while now. But we can't see everything and if you guys help us see stuff, we can help keep it cleaned up better.J

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

This is clipped from the article fatness posted.....

"Mike told me, hey, we're a better team with you on it but wanted to know if I have a problem with an open competition," Favre said. "I don't have a problem with competing -- you know that, but Aaron should be the starter right now because he's been out here all this time. This is more than about an open competition and I can do that, absolutely, but this is going to be mass confusion and that's not good for this team.

"I'll practice my butt off, if it comes to that, and I think we all know what the end result will be, but this probably isn't going to work. And I truly understand that if I was in Mike's shoes, I'd see it basically the same way he sees it, I'm sure. And I think if he was in my shoes, he'd see it my way. I think we both agree on that.

Does anyone else read this as Favre saying he welcomes the open competition, but wont' participate in it? Because that's how I read it.Am I off base?

No, you're not off base. He wants to have it both ways - he wants to say that he's fine with an open competition, but he doesn't want to participate in it, supposedly because it's too much of a distraction to the team. I guess that means he wants to just be handed the starting job in Green Bay . . . that is, to the extent he wants to play in Green Bay at all. And of course he doesn't want to play in Green Bay - he wants to go elsewhere.

This is exactly how I read it.

 

[⚡DEADHEAD⚡]

Packers News Conference at 4:35 CT

 

[ookook]

You know NFL football is about 3 things and it is really simple. 1) Please your fans 2) Win 3) Make Money Which QB helps those 3 things in the hear and now (this is not fantasy football people). Yeah that's right Brett Favre 1) The fans want Brett 2) He will only help them win now 3) His jersey and marketing for Green Bay is only going to make more money (Green bay is an institution already but Favre is Green Bay right now...he is the face of the franchise right now until he decides to hang them up). We have talked about his flip flopping ad nausem already and I agree it is a joke....but he is Brett Favre not some 2nd string linemen. Mark this down right here and right now. If Favre is released or traded (within the division) Ted and Mike are gone next season....they will get their pink slips. Their ego's have blinded them. It is Favre that makes the talent around him rise to another level. All the great QB's of all time have that power. System guy's come and go. It is about talent, toughness and leadership and Favre has all of that. Rodgers has not had the opportunity I agree.....so what. He has to wait his turn. This is not Steve Young on the bench that is for sure. And he will in all liklyhood based on my own opinion (and we all have them) be an average NFL QB at best. The Packers front office are being ludicrus. Flat out nut's. The funny thing is the players would embrace Favre and be pumped that their leader is back. Problem is the ego maniac front office and coach don't want him back because he could not give them an answer back in February. You don't pressure your 3 time MVP Super Bowl winning never misses a game in his life franchise QB to give you an answer a month after playing one of his greatest seasons and coming an overtime away from getting to the big dance. What people forget so easisly is the Packers would have never sniffed the post season without Favre and they won't this season if they go with Rodgers. That is almost a certainty in my eye test. I am a huge fan of Favre the football player and I want Brett Favre to play football if he wants to. He has more than earned the right to change his mind. Say what you want about the team needs to move on or have a new direction blah blah blah. That does not matter. Only 3 things matter: 1) Make the fans happy 2) Just win baby 3) Be profitable. Only one of those 3 things will happen in the near future for the Packers. Guess which one that will be and you know why it is so crystal clear why TT and MM will be shown the door if this continues to go as it is. It is to the point of insanity and both sides are to blame no doubt.Bottom line though and you can argue and point to stats all you want. Who gives your team the best chance to win now. And that is all that matters. I would rather have 3-4 losing seasons in a row but get a world title in between that any day of the week. Then take a step back for 2-3 years for the sake of developing an average prospect to begin with. If Rodgers is so good why did they not show Brett the door after his 2005 and to some degree his 2006 season? TT has drafted well and built a nice squad but he does not have the QB to bring it all together unless his name is Brett Favre.They being egomaniac's (TT & MM) and if I were a Packer fan I would be outraged that they did not just say ok....we thought we were moving forward but now we are not because we have the opportunity to have our 3 time MVP top tier QB coming back to make one more run at this thing.Do you really think that the locker room does not want favre back as their leader? My goodness what a nightmare this front office is turning this into.Yes Brett is to blame too we all know that. But it is a simple fix.....get him back to practice (which he took the first step in doing) and get this thing going again. That team will not miss a beat. OTA's...blah blah blah....now is the time you get your house in order. July and August is when the real men report. 17 year Veterans don't exactly need to be at OTA's (of course it's good they are) but one year missing them is not going to be bad for a guy like Favre.That's it. I am done. What will be will be.I just think football is a hell of alot better watching favre compete.

Give how the organization is structured, I am pretty sure both TT and MM will be there for a few years even if they go 4-12.It is not like they have Mark Cuban around or something.

 

[ookook]

This is clipped from the article fatness posted.....

"Mike told me, hey, we're a better team with you on it but wanted to know if I have a problem with an open competition," Favre said. "I don't have a problem with competing -- you know that, but Aaron should be the starter right now because he's been out here all this time. This is more than about an open competition and I can do that, absolutely, but this is going to be mass confusion and that's not good for this team.

"I'll practice my butt off, if it comes to that, and I think we all know what the end result will be, but this probably isn't going to work. And I truly understand that if I was in Mike's shoes, I'd see it basically the same way he sees it, I'm sure. And I think if he was in my shoes, he'd see it my way. I think we both agree on that.

Does anyone else read this as Favre saying he welcomes the open competition, but wont' participate in it? Because that's how I read it.Am I off base?

No, you're not off base. He wants to have it both ways - he wants to say that he's fine with an open competition, but he doesn't want to participate in it, supposedly because it's too much of a distraction to the team. I guess that means he wants to just be handed the starting job in Green Bay . . . that is, to the extent he wants to play in Green Bay at all. And of course he doesn't want to play in Green Bay - he wants to go elsewhere.

This is exactly how I read it.

I am not sure, was never sure, that Favre has been allowed to practice with the team, let alone compete.If they did OFFER to let him compete (doubtful, but uncear) and he declined, you are right.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Does Ted Thompson not deserve some benefit of the doubt, given what he's accomplished so far in his tenure?

Yes. The criticism of Ted Thompson reminds me very much of the constant criticism of AJ Smith during his first few years as Chargers GM.If you listened to the fans, everything he did was a huge mistake. Cutting David Boston, drafting-and-trading Eli Manning for three draft picks who have all been Pro Bowlers (instead of passing on Manning to draft Robert Gallery) ... nearly everything he did, he was heavily criticized for, and pretty much every time it has worked out great. People were suggesting that AJ Smith should have been fired immediately after the draft when he selected Antonio Cromartie and Marcus McNeill with the first two picks.

The common theme, though, is that people always criticized AJ Smith for stuff that hadn't played out yet. People thought he should be fired because they predicted that Cromartie wouldn't be a good player ... but they didn't wait to see who was right.

It's the same thing with Ted Thompson now. People might say that Thompson should be fired because they think Aaron Rodgers won't be as good as Brett Favre. But nobody's waiting to see who's right about that.

I would say that if you're going to criticize Thompson for something, you should wait to see how it works out before suggesting he should be fired. If it works out great, the criticism will look silly in hindsight.

I know there were some threads here in the Shark pool skewering Thompson for hiring McCarthy . . . Maybe people should have waited before being so harshly critical.

To say "My opinion differs from Thompson's, so I think he's wrong" is one thing. But to say "My opinion differs from Thompson so I think he should be fired before we wait to find out who was right" seems a bit premature.

I hear you MT but I like the debate AS the decisions are being made. I mean, let's say that Thompson trades Favre to Minnesota. And then Aaron Rodgers goes out and plays terribly. While Favre leads the Vikings to a Super Bowl.

The "I told you so" posters are kind of lame after the fact. I'd rather hear a guy take a strong stand now, before the game is played. You know what I mean?

Obviously, that means we don't truly know who is right or wrong yet. Rodgers could be the MVP this year. But it's fun to debate / discuss what we think of the GMs move and what we'd do if we were the GM. That's pretty much fantasy football.

J

 

[MarshallRob]

This is clipped from the article fatness posted.....

"Mike told me, hey, we're a better team with you on it but wanted to know if I have a problem with an open competition," Favre said. "I don't have a problem with competing -- you know that, but Aaron should be the starter right now because he's been out here all this time. This is more than about an open competition and I can do that, absolutely, but this is going to be mass confusion and that's not good for this team.

"I'll practice my butt off, if it comes to that, and I think we all know what the end result will be, but this probably isn't going to work. And I truly understand that if I was in Mike's shoes, I'd see it basically the same way he sees it, I'm sure. And I think if he was in my shoes, he'd see it my way. I think we both agree on that.

Does anyone else read this as Favre saying he welcomes the open competition, but wont' participate in it? Because that's how I read it.Am I off base?

No, you're not off base. He wants to have it both ways - he wants to say that he's fine with an open competition, but he doesn't want to participate in it, supposedly because it's too much of a distraction to the team. I guess that means he wants to just be handed the starting job in Green Bay . . . that is, to the extent he wants to play in Green Bay at all. And of course he doesn't want to play in Green Bay - he wants to go elsewhere.

This is exactly how I read it.

I don't. It reads to me as though Favre is saying Rodgers deserves to remain the starter right now because he's been in camp and Favre has not. Should there be an open competition for the job however, Favre is confident he will prevail and he believes McCarthy knows this as well. But, Favre thinks the end result of his ultimately supplanting Rodgers a month from now will create "mass confusion" for the players and hurt the team.

 

[T Bell]

This is clipped from the article fatness posted.....

"Mike told me, hey, we're a better team with you on it but wanted to know if I have a problem with an open competition," Favre said. "I don't have a problem with competing -- you know that, but Aaron should be the starter right now because he's been out here all this time. This is more than about an open competition and I can do that, absolutely, but this is going to be mass confusion and that's not good for this team.

"I'll practice my butt off, if it comes to that, and I think we all know what the end result will be, but this probably isn't going to work. And I truly understand that if I was in Mike's shoes, I'd see it basically the same way he sees it, I'm sure. And I think if he was in my shoes, he'd see it my way. I think we both agree on that.

Does anyone else read this as Favre saying he welcomes the open competition, but wont' participate in it? Because that's how I read it.Am I off base?

No, you're not off base. He wants to have it both ways - he wants to say that he's fine with an open competition, but he doesn't want to participate in it, supposedly because it's too much of a distraction to the team. I guess that means he wants to just be handed the starting job in Green Bay . . . that is, to the extent he wants to play in Green Bay at all. And of course he doesn't want to play in Green Bay - he wants to go elsewhere.

This is exactly how I read it.

I am not sure, was never sure, that Favre has been allowed to practice with the team, let alone compete.If they did OFFER to let him compete (doubtful, but uncear) and he declined, you are right.

It would be a violation of the CBA if Favre was prohibited to practice with the team after reinstatement. You saw a version of that with McNair and the Titans two years ago. They cannot lock a player out of their facility unless he's been officially suspended (and I think per the TO episode with Philly and the Keyshawn episode with TB that that's limited to four games IIRC), so there are zero grounds to assume this is what's happening with Favre.

 

[Eric Stratton]

You know NFL football is about 3 things and it is really simple. 1) Please your fans 2) Win 3) Make Money Which QB helps those 3 things in the hear and now (this is not fantasy football people). Yeah that's right Brett Favre 1) The fans want Brett 2) He will only help them win now 3) His jersey and marketing for Green Bay is only going to make more money (Green bay is an institution already but Favre is Green Bay right now...he is the face of the franchise right now until he decides to hang them up). We have talked about his flip flopping ad nausem already and I agree it is a joke....but he is Brett Favre not some 2nd string linemen. Mark this down right here and right now. If Favre is released or traded (within the division) Ted and Mike are gone next season....they will get their pink slips. Their ego's have blinded them. It is Favre that makes the talent around him rise to another level. All the great QB's of all time have that power. System guy's come and go. It is about talent, toughness and leadership and Favre has all of that. Rodgers has not had the opportunity I agree.....so what. He has to wait his turn. This is not Steve Young on the bench that is for sure. And he will in all liklyhood based on my own opinion (and we all have them) be an average NFL QB at best. The Packers front office are being ludicrus. Flat out nut's. The funny thing is the players would embrace Favre and be pumped that their leader is back. Problem is the ego maniac front office and coach don't want him back because he could not give them an answer back in February. You don't pressure your 3 time MVP Super Bowl winning never misses a game in his life franchise QB to give you an answer a month after playing one of his greatest seasons and coming an overtime away from getting to the big dance. What people forget so easisly is the Packers would have never sniffed the post season without Favre and they won't this season if they go with Rodgers. That is almost a certainty in my eye test. I am a huge fan of Favre the football player and I want Brett Favre to play football if he wants to. He has more than earned the right to change his mind. Say what you want about the team needs to move on or have a new direction blah blah blah. That does not matter. Only 3 things matter: 1) Make the fans happy 2) Just win baby 3) Be profitable. Only one of those 3 things will happen in the near future for the Packers. Guess which one that will be and you know why it is so crystal clear why TT and MM will be shown the door if this continues to go as it is. It is to the point of insanity and both sides are to blame no doubt.Bottom line though and you can argue and point to stats all you want. Who gives your team the best chance to win now. And that is all that matters. I would rather have 3-4 losing seasons in a row but get a world title in between that any day of the week. Then take a step back for 2-3 years for the sake of developing an average prospect to begin with. If Rodgers is so good why did they not show Brett the door after his 2005 and to some degree his 2006 season? TT has drafted well and built a nice squad but he does not have the QB to bring it all together unless his name is Brett Favre.They being egomaniac's (TT & MM) and if I were a Packer fan I would be outraged that they did not just say ok....we thought we were moving forward but now we are not because we have the opportunity to have our 3 time MVP top tier QB coming back to make one more run at this thing.Do you really think that the locker room does not want favre back as their leader? My goodness what a nightmare this front office is turning this into.Yes Brett is to blame too we all know that. But it is a simple fix.....get him back to practice (which he took the first step in doing) and get this thing going again. That team will not miss a beat. OTA's...blah blah blah....now is the time you get your house in order. July and August is when the real men report. 17 year Veterans don't exactly need to be at OTA's (of course it's good they are) but one year missing them is not going to be bad for a guy like Favre.That's it. I am done. What will be will be.I just think football is a hell of alot better watching favre compete.

Give how the organization is structured, I am pretty sure both TT and MM will be there for a few years even if they go 4-12.It is not like they have Mark Cuban around or something.

If they go 4-12 I highly doubt they will be there for a few years. Just watch how ugly it will get in GB if Rodgers and the Packers struggle to start the season.

 

[ookook]

Many of you guys arent' old enough to remember when Coke decided to change their flavor to New Coke. I was in college. I remember thinking, "That seems like a terrible idea. But the guys calling the shots at Coke are smart business people making a ton of money. They must know what they're doing."Turns out they did not know what they're doing.I think we're watching the NFL equivalent of that now. If I were a die hard Packers fan (I'm not but I know there are tons that are) I would be beyond right now. Unbelievable if they truly do find a way to screw this up.J

You rolled out a New Coke reference? Brother, I tasted that while in college and it was .To the point...and your analogy. Business do make decisions that they think are right. Think about your own boat business; you've never said, "I'm going to do something that will hurt my business and cause me to lose market share." Nobody in control of their faculities does that. My own employer at one time thought the future of their business was in energy trading; it put them literally DAYS away from Chapter 11 (and trust me, an electric utility in Chapter 11 is not a good thing). Companies do their due diligence; investigate their options, do the cost/benefit analysis and market research and proceed appropriately. Does it always work? No, as anyone who invests in the stock market can attest. The larger point is that the Packers feel the future is with Rogers. Could it bite them? Darn straight it could. So could keeping Favre around for another year. It is also not a given that BF will take GB deep in the playoffs. Part of being an American (citizen or corporation) is that we have the freedom to both succeed AND fail on our own terms...and that is something I support. (If I go any farther, it'll need to be moved to the FFA.) My

Actually, I am willing to bet Joe HAS made decisions that he knew would cost his business money but he were the right thing to do. And not just "well it will be better in the long run" (which is a more distal profit motive), but because it was right.

 

[Phil Elliott]

ESPNNews is reporting the trade discussion is with the Buccaneers...

 

[gianmarco]

Wouldn't it be hilarious if they suspended Favre due to "conduct detrimental to the team". That argument could certainly be made.....

 

[Andy Herron]

Per Ed Werder, Favre is talking to Tampa Bay about a trade.