WTF????!!! They were practically begging him to stay in February. Why wouldn't they want a firm committment one way or another from their QB BEFORE the draft and free agency?Forced his hand....PUUUHLEEEEAASE!
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Farve Reinstated; expected to report Monday (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter The Amalgamated
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Sabertooth
Footballguy
Thompson basically tried to stay the course amid the Possibility that Brett might be committed to coming back. The Packers have never waivered from that. Brett has flip flopped as recently as early July. Thompson probably assumed he'd change his mind and retire again. The bolded part is just not true. He asked for his release from the Packers. He asked for this so he could basically join the archrival Vikings. He used the media to try and force Thompson's hand. But Ted remained calm and kept it close to the vest whilst Brett was acting like a spurned 15 year old girl.
It now appears that Brett isn't going to flip flop back to wanting to retire again and the Packers appear to be open to allowing him to complete. Thompson has never dealt in hypotheticals. He deals with the process.
Brett retired...check
Packers moved forward with Rodgers.....check
Brett waffled....check
Packers opened an avenue for Brett to return....check
Brett told them he was retiring for real this time....check
Packer keep moving forward with Rodgers....check
Brett can't believe that the team didn't fold up shop when he left so starts acting out like a child....check
Packers stay the course, knowing that Favre is likely still on the fence.....check
Favre finally asks to be reinstated....check
Packers hold the course waiting for the paperwork to go through.....check
Favre heads to Green Bay.....check
Packers won't comment on the situation until he's actually on the roster.....check
Here we sit.
The Packers have had a plan and stuck to it. Favre is all over the place and doesn't know how to deal with a management team that treats players like equals instead of royalty ala the Mike Sherman regime.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
sho nuff
Footballguy
Exactly...I give McCarthy a ton of credit for it.But Favre deserves some of the credit too for his play...McCarthy too though, I wouldn't swap head coaches with anyone.
Franknbeans
Footballguy
from MMQB...
1. I think these are my Favrian thoughts of the week:
a. It is an insane story. That much I can tell you. It is beyond insane, really. By midday Saturday, Favre turned down Packer president Mark Murphy's invitation to return to the team Monday. FAVRE SAID HE WAS NOT COMING. Those in the middle of the story were positive he was going to spurn the playing role and accept whatever the silly figure was to not play anymore and take the 10-year marketing deal with the team. What changed overnight?
I heard two things Sunday -- the Favre side changing what it wanted on the marketing side, and the Pack's change of stance of Favre competing for the starting job with Aaron Rodgers. The latter was truly significant and showed Green Bay finally listened to the sensible voices of most people around the league. Yes, they wanted to get off the Favre merry-go-round of never being able to plan for a quarterback future. But it's smart, coming off a year like he had last year, to give Favre the latitude he wants to decide when he wants to play. And so Sunday morning, the Packers agreed to let Favre compete for the job, and told commissioner Roger Goodell, and everyone could breathe a sigh.
b. Re Goodell's role: It was huge. Absolutely huge. After Favre lost every ounce of trust for the Packers, the only NFL person in a suit he trusted was Goodell, who became his regular confidant during the past nine days. When we look back on this story in 10 years and laugh (or cry, maybe), the one thing we'll know for sure is Goodell saved Favre's future with the Packers.
What he did, I'm told by people on the two sides, is make them aware it was a slippery slope they were going down toward the end of Favre's playing career, with Favre being a mercenary and the Packers snubbing their noses at him and painting themselves into a corner they very well might live to regret. For those who say Goodell shouldn't have gotten involved because it sets a bad precedent, I say that's ridiculous. Goodell should help any franchise and any legend reaching out for his help if it's in the best interests of the game. And anyone who doesn't think Brett Favre playing for the Packers -- if he's going to play football this year -- is in the best interest of the game is delusional.
c. Re Aaron Rodgers: I think he needs that Justin Timberlake hug again. For a while, I was hugely sympathetic to Rodgers, and I still feel for the guy because he's waited long enough. But the NFL's about winning, at almost any cost.
d. If it's a fair competition, do you have any doubt Favre will win? I don't.
1. I think these are my Favrian thoughts of the week:
a. It is an insane story. That much I can tell you. It is beyond insane, really. By midday Saturday, Favre turned down Packer president Mark Murphy's invitation to return to the team Monday. FAVRE SAID HE WAS NOT COMING. Those in the middle of the story were positive he was going to spurn the playing role and accept whatever the silly figure was to not play anymore and take the 10-year marketing deal with the team. What changed overnight?
I heard two things Sunday -- the Favre side changing what it wanted on the marketing side, and the Pack's change of stance of Favre competing for the starting job with Aaron Rodgers. The latter was truly significant and showed Green Bay finally listened to the sensible voices of most people around the league. Yes, they wanted to get off the Favre merry-go-round of never being able to plan for a quarterback future. But it's smart, coming off a year like he had last year, to give Favre the latitude he wants to decide when he wants to play. And so Sunday morning, the Packers agreed to let Favre compete for the job, and told commissioner Roger Goodell, and everyone could breathe a sigh.
b. Re Goodell's role: It was huge. Absolutely huge. After Favre lost every ounce of trust for the Packers, the only NFL person in a suit he trusted was Goodell, who became his regular confidant during the past nine days. When we look back on this story in 10 years and laugh (or cry, maybe), the one thing we'll know for sure is Goodell saved Favre's future with the Packers.
What he did, I'm told by people on the two sides, is make them aware it was a slippery slope they were going down toward the end of Favre's playing career, with Favre being a mercenary and the Packers snubbing their noses at him and painting themselves into a corner they very well might live to regret. For those who say Goodell shouldn't have gotten involved because it sets a bad precedent, I say that's ridiculous. Goodell should help any franchise and any legend reaching out for his help if it's in the best interests of the game. And anyone who doesn't think Brett Favre playing for the Packers -- if he's going to play football this year -- is in the best interest of the game is delusional.
c. Re Aaron Rodgers: I think he needs that Justin Timberlake hug again. For a while, I was hugely sympathetic to Rodgers, and I still feel for the guy because he's waited long enough. But the NFL's about winning, at almost any cost.
d. If it's a fair competition, do you have any doubt Favre will win? I don't.
Phurfur
Footballguy
I agree but TT brought him in. I remember how outraged Packer fans were with this hire. "What has the guy done, he's been on terrible coaching staffs at NO and SF." Every move TT has made Packer fans have question and were against.I thought this when I lived in Wisconsin and I think it now, “Packer fans don't deserve a winner”. I have never seen such a negative attitude from a fan base. Everyone gets down on Cowboy fans for their optimism and homerism but isn't that the way it should be.Remember allot of these same fans were outraged when Ron Wolfe brought in Favre for a #1 draft pick. They also booed Favre for years. Now they call him a legend.McCarthy too though, I wouldn't swap head coaches with anyone.
Iwannabeacowboybaby!
Footballguy
I think it was a little of both.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Who was begging him in Feb?
Donnybrook
Footballguy
I can only guess what the Vikings said.
sho nuff
Footballguy
I supported the McCarthy hiring as he actually had a great resume in NO...and nobody was succeeding with what they had in SF that year.That...and it had Ron Wolf's stamp of approval on it.Alot of people just don't like Thompson...Favre seems to be one of them.I guess he does not have that rosey personality...but he knows his job and the NFL quite well.Not to say I like everything he has done...but he has done a pretty damn good job.I agree but TT brought him in. I remember how outraged Packer fans were with this hire. "What has the guy done, he's been on terrible coaching staffs at NO and SF." Every move TT has made Packer fans have question and were against.I thought this when I lived in Wisconsin and I think it now, “Packer fans don't deserve a winner”. I have never seen such a negative attitude from a fan base. Everyone gets down on Cowboy fans for their optimism and homerism but isn't that the way it should be.Remember allot of these same fans were outraged when Ron Wolfe brought in Favre for a #1 draft pick. They also booed Favre for years. Now they call him a legend.
This is far and away the more popular opinion...but it's also the reason it's virtually impossible for there to be a true "fair competition".
Flash
Footballguy
You're right. My post was a bit askew. I just want my team to win, and I don't care who is under center. Obviously I feel favre give them the best shot at winning it all this year, but I could be wrong.
Flash
Footballguy
McCarthy too though, I wouldn't swap head coaches with anyone.
I would give McCarthy more credit than TT here though.
Tau837
Footballguy
Sure, Thompson and McCarthy deserve more credit than Favre for the turnaround. They formed and coached the entire team, and Favre is just one player, albeit arguably at the most critical position on the field.But LOFL at trying to bash Favre over wins and losses. He has more wins than any QB in NFL history, and he led the Packers to the playoffs in 11 of 15 full seasons so far. They had 1 losing season in 16 with him at QB, despite regularly turning over the rest of the personnel. He's had some bad playoff games, but he did lead them to two Super Bowls and one title. Come on.
So....for all of that he gets to:1. Bash the FO at will in an attempt to force his opinion.Sure, Thompson and McCarthy deserve more credit than Favre for the turnaround. They formed and coached the entire team, and Favre is just one player, albeit arguably at the most critical position on the field.But LOFL at trying to bash Favre over wins and losses. He has more wins than any QB in NFL history, and he led the Packers to the playoffs in 11 of 15 full seasons so far. They had 1 losing season in 16 with him at QB, despite regularly turning over the rest of the personnel. He's had some bad playoff games, but he did lead them to two Super Bowls and one title. Come on.After all...weren't they 4-12 with Favre?????
2. Hold the Coaching staff hostage in thier attempts to plan the future of the most important position on the field.
3. Use the media to try to force his way when the FO/coach don't cave in to his desires.
4. An last but FAR FROM THE LEAST....Remain the starting QB for as long as he desires, whether he's 38 or 48, whether he's thrown for 4000 yards or 25 interceptions.
After all..the team owes him that. TT should bow down and kiss his ### just because he's Brett Favre.
fatness
Footballguy
It's quite heartening how many sports fans have noticed these things in the last month. Questions:
How soon until Favre is complaining to the press (about coaching or players or management) now that he's in camp?
Assuming he's the starting QB this season for Green Bay, when he's thrown 2-3 first half interceptions does he get replaced by Rogers in the second half?
Tau837
Footballguy
I don't like how Favre has handled this situation and have said so numerous times. That doesn't change my opinion that starting him this year gives Green Bay a better chance to win than starting Rodgers.So....for all of that he gets to:1. Bash the FO at will in an attempt to force his opinion.Sure, Thompson and McCarthy deserve more credit than Favre for the turnaround. They formed and coached the entire team, and Favre is just one player, albeit arguably at the most critical position on the field.But LOFL at trying to bash Favre over wins and losses. He has more wins than any QB in NFL history, and he led the Packers to the playoffs in 11 of 15 full seasons so far. They had 1 losing season in 16 with him at QB, despite regularly turning over the rest of the personnel. He's had some bad playoff games, but he did lead them to two Super Bowls and one title. Come on.
2. Hold the Coaching staff hostage in thier attempts to plan the future of the most important position on the field.
3. Use the media to try to force his way when the FO/coach don't cave in to his desires.
4. An last but FAR FROM THE LEAST....Remain the starting QB for as long as he desires, whether he's 38 or 48, whether he's thrown for 4000 yards or 25 interceptions.
After all..the team owes him that. TT should bow down and kiss his ### just because he's Brett Favre.
That said, why do you feel compelled to exaggerate what has happened to make your point? Your first and third points are essentially the same. Your second point is invalid, because the coaching staff has been planning for their future QB; they haven't been held up. And Favre won't be playing anywhere close to 48, and he performed well last year or the whole situation probably wouldn't have come about.Favre doesn't get to remain the starter as long as he desires, either. If he plays out his contract and still wants to play (doubtful), then Green Bay can just let him walk. And in the meantime, you can be sure they will make him compete for the job, and if he loses, which is clearly what Thompson wants, he'll be on the bench. If he actually wins the competition, meaning he is the better QB, there is no issue.
You seem to be a little emotional about this subject.
Ya know, one of the things that really, really sucks about all of this is that Brett Favre was (just a couple of months ago) one of my favorite all time NFL players.
I never deluded myself into thinking he was one of the best QB's ever (as many have), but his style and his fire were one-of-a kind, and he was certainly among the best at his position during most of his career.
That's one of the things I am most angry about, when I'm completely honest with myself.....the fact that one of my fav's has acted so badly, and treated his team/organization so badly.
I never deluded myself into thinking he was one of the best QB's ever (as many have), but his style and his fire were one-of-a kind, and he was certainly among the best at his position during most of his career.
That's one of the things I am most angry about, when I'm completely honest with myself.....the fact that one of my fav's has acted so badly, and treated his team/organization so badly.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
I agree my comments are somewhat clouded by my personal bias. I think it is important to remember that Ted Thompson forged a 10 year career in Houston as a backup linebacker and special teamer. That tells me he had to fight for his roster spot every single training camp for 10 years. I think he has a very good understanding of how destructive it can be to allow this type of special treatment, no matter how big a player he is. Aaron Rodgers and 80 other guys have sacrificed all off-season working hard in Green Bay and McCarthy has been there with them every day talking about moving forward and turning a new page.As for the "chance to compete" - I understand that concept if you are talking about Chillar against Popinga or Jackson against Grant. Favre against Rodgers is obviously different and not something that will help the team in my opinion. Can you imagine Favre on the sidelines on Monday night Sept. 8 holding a clipboard? Of course not. He'll be back in Mississippi before that happens. He's not a team player.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Im with you in a way.But he is still up there.And he is my favorite player I have ever watched.Though, I am one who puts him up there as one of the best ever. Hard not to.I don't think he is better than Montana...and I think Brady and Manning have probably passed him up.But after that...he is in the discussion with the Elways, Unitas, Marino...and so on. (note...for those that will try...Im talking more modern QBs and not going back to Otto Graham so save it).
griz145389
Footballguy
Favre didn't come out and say anything bad publicly about Ted Thompson until after Thompson made it clear that he didn't want Favre around. Favre wanted to come back for the Packers, and Thompson basically told him no. At that point, Favre began looking at other options. I'm not saying Favre is a saint in this whole fiasco, however, it's not as if the Packers front office didn't play a large part of turning it into a circus.So....for all of that he gets to:1. Bash the FO at will in an attempt to force his opinion.Sure, Thompson and McCarthy deserve more credit than Favre for the turnaround. They formed and coached the entire team, and Favre is just one player, albeit arguably at the most critical position on the field.But LOFL at trying to bash Favre over wins and losses. He has more wins than any QB in NFL history, and he led the Packers to the playoffs in 11 of 15 full seasons so far. They had 1 losing season in 16 with him at QB, despite regularly turning over the rest of the personnel. He's had some bad playoff games, but he did lead them to two Super Bowls and one title. Come on.After all...weren't they 4-12 with Favre?????
2. Hold the Coaching staff hostage in thier attempts to plan the future of the most important position on the field.
3. Use the media to try to force his way when the FO/coach don't cave in to his desires.
4. An last but FAR FROM THE LEAST....Remain the starting QB for as long as he desires, whether he's 38 or 48, whether he's thrown for 4000 yards or 25 interceptions.
After all..the team owes him that. TT should bow down and kiss his ### just because he's Brett Favre.
From the timeline that the Packers released, it shows that they were aware Favre was having second thought just a few weeks after he retired. At that point it should have been Thompson's responsibility to let Favre know that they didn't want him back period, or have some kind of plan in place if Favre did decide to come back. Since it appears that he did neither of those things, that is a huge mismanagement issue. Instead they waited until July without having a plan in place.
I don't like how Favre has handled this situation and have said so numerous times. That doesn't change my opinion that starting him this year gives Green Bay a better chance to win than starting Rodgers.So....for all of that he gets to:1. Bash the FO at will in an attempt to force his opinion.Sure, Thompson and McCarthy deserve more credit than Favre for the turnaround. They formed and coached the entire team, and Favre is just one player, albeit arguably at the most critical position on the field.But LOFL at trying to bash Favre over wins and losses. He has more wins than any QB in NFL history, and he led the Packers to the playoffs in 11 of 15 full seasons so far. They had 1 losing season in 16 with him at QB, despite regularly turning over the rest of the personnel. He's had some bad playoff games, but he did lead them to two Super Bowls and one title. Come on.
2. Hold the Coaching staff hostage in thier attempts to plan the future of the most important position on the field.
3. Use the media to try to force his way when the FO/coach don't cave in to his desires.
4. An last but FAR FROM THE LEAST....Remain the starting QB for as long as he desires, whether he's 38 or 48, whether he's thrown for 4000 yards or 25 interceptions.
After all..the team owes him that. TT should bow down and kiss his ### just because he's Brett Favre.
That said, why do you feel compelled to exaggerate what has happened to make your point? Your first and third points are essentially the same. Your second point is invalid, because the coaching staff has been planning for their future QB; they haven't been held up. And Favre won't be playing anywhere close to 48, and he performed well last year or the whole situation probably wouldn't have come about.
Their are different ways to bash the FO then talking to the press. And my second point is very valid. It's not about just Rodgers, but his backup. Every team wants a solid backup...when do you aquire that backup? Generally, you don't do so while that first guy is still a backup. QB is the most critical position on the field/team...you HAVE to know whos is (and isn't) returning to the team in the BEGINNING of the offseason to plan properly. I was being fececious about the 48 age, but the point is...where do you draw the line? A lot of Favre fans seem incapable of drawing any line, anywhere.
Favre doesn't get to remain the starter as long as he desires, either. If he plays out his contract and still wants to play (doubtful), then Green Bay can just let him walk. And in the meantime, you can be sure they will make him compete for the job, and if he loses, which is clearly what Thompson wants, he'll be on the bench. If he actually wins the competition, meaning he is the better QB, there is no issue.
You seem to be a little emotional about this subject.
Yes, I am...see my last post. I'm also very frustrated by the blind Favre love and constant assumtion that he's not just the better QB (over Rodgers), but that it isn't really even close. I firmly believe that if Favre were far and away better....the Pack would have welcomed him back with open arms. It's irritating to me that so many people here (and elsewhere) are so convinced of their own opinions that they choose to believe that those PAID TO KNOW and in A POSITION TO KNOW must be idiots.
packersfan
Footballguy
I'm struggling to find the "special treatment" Favre is getting - beyond the $20 million bribe he was offered.
He hasn't been guaranteed his starting job back. If the reports are true, he'll have to compete for the job just like everyone else in camp. So he isn't being allowed to walk in off the street and be a starter. That would constitute being given special treatment.
If anything, the Packers aren't giving Favre special treatment. They've been going out of their way not to since this fiasco began.
He hasn't been guaranteed his starting job back. If the reports are true, he'll have to compete for the job just like everyone else in camp. So he isn't being allowed to walk in off the street and be a starter. That would constitute being given special treatment.
If anything, the Packers aren't giving Favre special treatment. They've been going out of their way not to since this fiasco began.
sho nuff
Footballguy
From many accounts...read a few of Bob McGinn's articles.The Packers did let Favre know that they needed to know for sure. When he confirmed to them again in May that he was staying retired...it was told to him (by at least one account I have heard) that they were going to move on and not look back...and Favre was said to have understood that.Favre didn't come out and say anything bad publicly about Ted Thompson until after Thompson made it clear that he didn't want Favre around. Favre wanted to come back for the Packers, and Thompson basically told him no. At that point, Favre began looking at other options. I'm not saying Favre is a saint in this whole fiasco, however, it's not as if the Packers front office didn't play a large part of turning it into a circus.So....for all of that he gets to:1. Bash the FO at will in an attempt to force his opinion.Sure, Thompson and McCarthy deserve more credit than Favre for the turnaround. They formed and coached the entire team, and Favre is just one player, albeit arguably at the most critical position on the field.But LOFL at trying to bash Favre over wins and losses. He has more wins than any QB in NFL history, and he led the Packers to the playoffs in 11 of 15 full seasons so far. They had 1 losing season in 16 with him at QB, despite regularly turning over the rest of the personnel. He's had some bad playoff games, but he did lead them to two Super Bowls and one title. Come on.After all...weren't they 4-12 with Favre?????
2. Hold the Coaching staff hostage in thier attempts to plan the future of the most important position on the field.
3. Use the media to try to force his way when the FO/coach don't cave in to his desires.
4. An last but FAR FROM THE LEAST....Remain the starting QB for as long as he desires, whether he's 38 or 48, whether he's thrown for 4000 yards or 25 interceptions.
After all..the team owes him that. TT should bow down and kiss his ### just because he's Brett Favre.
From the timeline that the Packers released, it shows that they were aware Favre was having second thought just a few weeks after he retired. At that point it should have been Thompson's responsibility to let Favre know that they didn't want him back period, or have some kind of plan in place if Favre did decide to come back. Since it appears that he did neither of those things, that is a huge mismanagement issue. Instead they waited until July without having a plan in place.
Some of that I heard on a local sports talk here with John McClain of the Houston Chronicle.
When I say "one of the best ever", I'm thinking along top ten type of lines. I certainly wouldn't fault anyone who places him in that company given the length and breadth of his career, and he is certainly worthy of first ballot HOF. It's beyond the scope of this thread to rank him, but many of his more ardent supporters are so convinced that he's not just one of the best ever, but easily THE best ever, that they have made themselves biased in his favor. FWIW...IMHO...I can't place Favre in that top ten because of his propensity for bone-headed picks at inopportune times. My favorite all-time QB is Randall Cunningham...and he's certainly not in a best ever discussion at all.
griz145389
Footballguy
I haven't seen anything that showed that the Packers specifically told Favre that he would not be welcome back in Greenbay until things escalated in July. In fact from the timeline itself, if it is to be believed, Mccarthy had asked Favre a few times after he retired if he wanted to come back. You don't ask a guy that if you don't want him back. You should just simply tell him that if he were to unretire that he is not welcome with the team period. They may have hinted at it, but I have seen nothing concrete that says they told him irrevocably no until July. Was Favre wrong for handling it the way he did? Absoolutely, however, to say that the management has played the upper hand is ridiculous.From many accounts...read a few of Bob McGinn's articles.The Packers did let Favre know that they needed to know for sure. When he confirmed to them again in May that he was staying retired...it was told to him (by at least one account I have heard) that they were going to move on and not look back...and Favre was said to have understood that.Favre didn't come out and say anything bad publicly about Ted Thompson until after Thompson made it clear that he didn't want Favre around. Favre wanted to come back for the Packers, and Thompson basically told him no. At that point, Favre began looking at other options. I'm not saying Favre is a saint in this whole fiasco, however, it's not as if the Packers front office didn't play a large part of turning it into a circus.So....for all of that he gets to:1. Bash the FO at will in an attempt to force his opinion.Sure, Thompson and McCarthy deserve more credit than Favre for the turnaround. They formed and coached the entire team, and Favre is just one player, albeit arguably at the most critical position on the field.But LOFL at trying to bash Favre over wins and losses. He has more wins than any QB in NFL history, and he led the Packers to the playoffs in 11 of 15 full seasons so far. They had 1 losing season in 16 with him at QB, despite regularly turning over the rest of the personnel. He's had some bad playoff games, but he did lead them to two Super Bowls and one title. Come on.After all...weren't they 4-12 with Favre?????
2. Hold the Coaching staff hostage in thier attempts to plan the future of the most important position on the field.
3. Use the media to try to force his way when the FO/coach don't cave in to his desires.
4. An last but FAR FROM THE LEAST....Remain the starting QB for as long as he desires, whether he's 38 or 48, whether he's thrown for 4000 yards or 25 interceptions.
After all..the team owes him that. TT should bow down and kiss his ### just because he's Brett Favre.
From the timeline that the Packers released, it shows that they were aware Favre was having second thought just a few weeks after he retired. At that point it should have been Thompson's responsibility to let Favre know that they didn't want him back period, or have some kind of plan in place if Favre did decide to come back. Since it appears that he did neither of those things, that is a huge mismanagement issue. Instead they waited until July without having a plan in place.
Some of that I heard on a local sports talk here with John McClain of the Houston Chronicle.
T Man
Footballguy
And so it is, Favre is coming back . . . or so he says.
All of the Favre supporters are jumping up and down.
But now we will have to see how this all plays out. Even if the story ends here, which it won't, I see many potential pitfalls for the Pack. IT only works out well if Favre is actually on the roster come the first week and the starter and the Pack advance to the Super Bowl.
I like Favre, although have been critical of him on this board. I also like the Pack although they are not my favorite team (not in the top 3). But I see problems that many seem to ignore all in the joy of getting #4 back and blistering Ted Thompson. Here they are:
1. Favre is back and has a shot at the starting position. (ARGUABLY, GOOD FOR THE PACK) I say arguably, because we never will know how good the Pack would have been withh Rogers under center. And, if the Packers do not advance to the Super Bowl are they truly "better off" not ahving made the switch this year?
2. Since it is an "open competition", one would assume that BF will get plenty of reps as will Rodgers. But Rodgers reps, which I think he badly needs, will be reduced from what was planned. (BAD FOR THE PACK)
3. With Favre back, Brohm and Flynn's reps will also be greatly reduced. The rookies will be relegated to very few reps. (AGAIN, BAD FOR THE PACK)
4. If Rodgers "WINS" the competition, he and the staff will be highly criticized since many of the BF people will find it too difficult to believe that Favre did not win an "open competition". (BAD FOR THE PACK[/b) In other words, Rodgers can win, but he will still lose.
5. If Rodgers "WINS" the competition, Favre may opt to retire and take the "management deal" instead of acting as a backup -- which should be a legitimate concern. This means that all of the reps lost by Rodgers, Brohm and Flynn will be even worse. (BAD FOR THE PACK)
6. If Rodgers "WINS" the competition, AND Brett stays, will he be supportive both in front of the media and behind closed doors - i.e., leaks to the press? If he's not then its "BAD FOR THE PACK"
7. If the competition is "close", there is a chance for a divided locker room. (BAD FOR THE PACK)
8. If Brett "WINS", the Pack have to go through this entire ordeal all over again next year. ("BAD FOR THE PACK")
So one good thing and potentially 6 bad things. Again, if the Packers win it all (or advance further then last year) then it proves to be a good thing. But if they don't . . .
Well, if they don't then I am sure all of the Ted Thompson bashers will be back on this Board bashing him for something else.
All of the Favre supporters are jumping up and down.
But now we will have to see how this all plays out. Even if the story ends here, which it won't, I see many potential pitfalls for the Pack. IT only works out well if Favre is actually on the roster come the first week and the starter and the Pack advance to the Super Bowl.
I like Favre, although have been critical of him on this board. I also like the Pack although they are not my favorite team (not in the top 3). But I see problems that many seem to ignore all in the joy of getting #4 back and blistering Ted Thompson. Here they are:
1. Favre is back and has a shot at the starting position. (ARGUABLY, GOOD FOR THE PACK) I say arguably, because we never will know how good the Pack would have been withh Rogers under center. And, if the Packers do not advance to the Super Bowl are they truly "better off" not ahving made the switch this year?
2. Since it is an "open competition", one would assume that BF will get plenty of reps as will Rodgers. But Rodgers reps, which I think he badly needs, will be reduced from what was planned. (BAD FOR THE PACK)
3. With Favre back, Brohm and Flynn's reps will also be greatly reduced. The rookies will be relegated to very few reps. (AGAIN, BAD FOR THE PACK)
4. If Rodgers "WINS" the competition, he and the staff will be highly criticized since many of the BF people will find it too difficult to believe that Favre did not win an "open competition". (BAD FOR THE PACK[/b) In other words, Rodgers can win, but he will still lose.
5. If Rodgers "WINS" the competition, Favre may opt to retire and take the "management deal" instead of acting as a backup -- which should be a legitimate concern. This means that all of the reps lost by Rodgers, Brohm and Flynn will be even worse. (BAD FOR THE PACK)
6. If Rodgers "WINS" the competition, AND Brett stays, will he be supportive both in front of the media and behind closed doors - i.e., leaks to the press? If he's not then its "BAD FOR THE PACK"
7. If the competition is "close", there is a chance for a divided locker room. (BAD FOR THE PACK)
8. If Brett "WINS", the Pack have to go through this entire ordeal all over again next year. ("BAD FOR THE PACK")
So one good thing and potentially 6 bad things. Again, if the Packers win it all (or advance further then last year) then it proves to be a good thing. But if they don't . . .
Well, if they don't then I am sure all of the Ted Thompson bashers will be back on this Board bashing him for something else.
Phurfur
Footballguy
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
You really need to get some perspective here. This is a silly, emotional post.So....for all of that he gets to:1. Bash the FO at will in an attempt to force his opinion.Sure, Thompson and McCarthy deserve more credit than Favre for the turnaround. They formed and coached the entire team, and Favre is just one player, albeit arguably at the most critical position on the field.But LOFL at trying to bash Favre over wins and losses. He has more wins than any QB in NFL history, and he led the Packers to the playoffs in 11 of 15 full seasons so far. They had 1 losing season in 16 with him at QB, despite regularly turning over the rest of the personnel. He's had some bad playoff games, but he did lead them to two Super Bowls and one title. Come on.After all...weren't they 4-12 with Favre?????
2. Hold the Coaching staff hostage in thier attempts to plan the future of the most important position on the field.
3. Use the media to try to force his way when the FO/coach don't cave in to his desires.
4. An last but FAR FROM THE LEAST....Remain the starting QB for as long as he desires, whether he's 38 or 48, whether he's thrown for 4000 yards or 25 interceptions.
After all..the team owes him that. TT should bow down and kiss his ### just because he's Brett Favre.
Phurfur
Footballguy
GB does not owe Favre anything, he was well paid for what he did. Maybe you are young but eventually you will find out your employer doesn't owe you anything either. Sorry but that is life.So....for all of that he gets to:1. Bash the FO at will in an attempt to force his opinion.Sure, Thompson and McCarthy deserve more credit than Favre for the turnaround. They formed and coached the entire team, and Favre is just one player, albeit arguably at the most critical position on the field.But LOFL at trying to bash Favre over wins and losses. He has more wins than any QB in NFL history, and he led the Packers to the playoffs in 11 of 15 full seasons so far. They had 1 losing season in 16 with him at QB, despite regularly turning over the rest of the personnel. He's had some bad playoff games, but he did lead them to two Super Bowls and one title. Come on.
2. Hold the Coaching staff hostage in thier attempts to plan the future of the most important position on the field.
3. Use the media to try to force his way when the FO/coach don't cave in to his desires.
4. An last but FAR FROM THE LEAST....Remain the starting QB for as long as he desires, whether he's 38 or 48, whether he's thrown for 4000 yards or 25 interceptions.
After all..the team owes him that. TT should bow down and kiss his ### just because he's Brett Favre.
You're correct CB, and I won't deny it. BUT, and this is a big BUT, most of the Favre suporters have displayed nothing but blind adulation, and have been "silly" and "emotional" in their support.You really need to get some perspective here. This is a silly, emotional post.So....for all of that he gets to:1. Bash the FO at will in an attempt to force his opinion.Sure, Thompson and McCarthy deserve more credit than Favre for the turnaround. They formed and coached the entire team, and Favre is just one player, albeit arguably at the most critical position on the field.But LOFL at trying to bash Favre over wins and losses. He has more wins than any QB in NFL history, and he led the Packers to the playoffs in 11 of 15 full seasons so far. They had 1 losing season in 16 with him at QB, despite regularly turning over the rest of the personnel. He's had some bad playoff games, but he did lead them to two Super Bowls and one title. Come on.After all...weren't they 4-12 with Favre?????
2. Hold the Coaching staff hostage in thier attempts to plan the future of the most important position on the field.
3. Use the media to try to force his way when the FO/coach don't cave in to his desires.
4. An last but FAR FROM THE LEAST....Remain the starting QB for as long as he desires, whether he's 38 or 48, whether he's thrown for 4000 yards or 25 interceptions.
After all..the team owes him that. TT should bow down and kiss his ### just because he's Brett Favre.
Tau837
Footballguy
If the better QB wins the competition, it is a net positive for the Packers. If the competition is not truly fair (either way), it's not good for the Packers. Everything beyond that (e.g., will Brett stay as a backup if he loses, will Brett leak to the media if he loses, will they go through this again next year) is all speculation at this point. IMO you can't run your team worrying about speculative issues in the future.
FunkyPlutos
Footballguy
I have to disagree with this. Before Favre got to Green Bay they were less than mediocre. HE is the reason that the franchise is where it is today (top 5 NFL franchises). In his time there, they have not had a dominant WR, RB, or any other player that has stayed like Favre has. He has been through Holmgren, Sherman and McCarthy. He has succeeded with all of them. He is the constant for this team. Anyone who has brought that kind of business to their employer would be made a "partner" of the institution. I don't kiss the guys feet and don't think he has been a saint through all this, but to say that they don't owe Brett Favre anything is being absurd.
Phurfur
Footballguy
And you can't run your team looking back to 1997/98.
massraider
Footballguy
Brohm and Flynn might lose reps? Flynn? FLYNN? And this is so important, you listed the lost reps twice?How about the good that might come from the rookies watching a Hall of Fame QB?
Look, reps for Brohm and..........Flynn are just not important enough to mention as possible detriments to the Pack's best QB ever returning, let alone mentioning it twice.
massraider
Footballguy
The Pack was 13-3 last year. Wouldn't you agree that Favre gives them a better shot this year? That's looking to the present, IMO.
Phurfur
Footballguy
Favre was in the NFC Championship Game - at home - OT - with the ball and he couldn't win, what will make this year different or easier. He may give them a better shot this year the only problem is the shot is not big enough and in future years he gives them no shot.
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
I honestly don't think they've gone nearly as far as the Favre "haters" or Thompson "lovers" or whatever, but that's just my perspective.renesauz said:You're correct CB, and I won't deny it. BUT, and this is a big BUT, most of the Favre suporters have displayed nothing but blind adulation, and have been "silly" and "emotional" in their support.ConstruxBoy said:You really need to get some perspective here. This is a silly, emotional post.So....for all of that he gets to:1. Bash the FO at will in an attempt to force his opinion.Sure, Thompson and McCarthy deserve more credit than Favre for the turnaround. They formed and coached the entire team, and Favre is just one player, albeit arguably at the most critical position on the field.But LOFL at trying to bash Favre over wins and losses. He has more wins than any QB in NFL history, and he led the Packers to the playoffs in 11 of 15 full seasons so far. They had 1 losing season in 16 with him at QB, despite regularly turning over the rest of the personnel. He's had some bad playoff games, but he did lead them to two Super Bowls and one title. Come on.After all...weren't they 4-12 with Favre?????
2. Hold the Coaching staff hostage in thier attempts to plan the future of the most important position on the field.
3. Use the media to try to force his way when the FO/coach don't cave in to his desires.
4. An last but FAR FROM THE LEAST....Remain the starting QB for as long as he desires, whether he's 38 or 48, whether he's thrown for 4000 yards or 25 interceptions.
After all..the team owes him that. TT should bow down and kiss his ### just because he's Brett Favre.
Phurfur
Footballguy
Close means nothing and close is as far as Favre can get, it is time to look ahead. GB has 3 young QBs that need reps and experience.
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I just think your perspective on this is horrible. The team was perhaps one bad throw away from making the SuperBowl last year. What's to say they can't get back, and this time not make that mistake? The Giants lost Strahan. The Packers have a chance to return Favre. Also, can we just say Tom Brady can't win with that Patriots team? They did lose to the same opponent, and on the biggest stage. The thing is, there's nothing that makes it different or easier. But how many teams came THAT close to the superbowl? When you have a chance to win, you take it. Opportunities to actually win are few and far between in this league. So, why not go with Favre, who got you that close to the NFC title game? Because you HOPE Rodgers is good enough to get you past that? Seriously?! Please, stop.Phurfur said:
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FavreCo
Footballguy
Green Bay fans can be glad you are not calling the shots.
sholditch
Footballguy
OK, post them all and see what you get. Still way above average. Dude, here is my point, one more time: stats can be used to prove anything. Really just about anything. It can't be something that flies so in the face of reality that it is instantly dismissible, but you can use them to, oh, say that Eli Manning is a better QB than Brett Favre. You do this by manipulating stats. Here's how they did it:Eli does have more postseason wins from last year than Brett Favre has since 1998. I checked, it's a statistical fact. They use this to imply that Eli is better than Favre. Here are the unwritten manipulations and assumptions that are made to go from that fact to the implied message:Picking 5 categories from 1 year is not cherry picking????????????????????????????????I didn't cherry pick. I just looked up his rankings. When you start deciding which stats to keep in and which to keep out, that's when manipulation occurs and that's when they become deceiving. Are set in stone rankings based on stats considered stats anyway?Also notice you didn't refute anything I posted or explain how ranking in the top 10 in basically every category = average.So in response to a link stating that his stats were deceiving, you tell me what his stats were?Forgive me if I don't read the linked article. I'm sure there's some sort of statistical manipulations that somehow show his season last year was subpar. But since we are talking facts, here are some:HE was 4th in the league in passing yardage.
He tied for sixth in the league for TDs.
He was third in the league in ypa at 7.8.
He was no. 1 in the league with 16 40+ yard passes.
He tied for ninth in the league for interceptions (fewer than Palmer, Brees, and Romo).
Yeah, real average...
Also, his 05 and 06 seasons might have been subpar because the team ranked 30th (05) and 23rd (06) in rushing.
Favre is penalized for every year the Packers had a good enough record to get a bye (like last season) because he is denied the chance for a win.
1 superbowl win is more impressive than leading your team to several postseason appearances
The QB in both situations was the main reason for team success/failure. IOW, every Giant win (not counting any of the regular season losses that kept them out of the playoffs) is because of Eli. Obviously there were no losses since they won the SB. Every postseason win/loss is because of Favre (also not counting the regular season wins that got the Pack to the playoffs more than once.)
I'm not going to waste my time researching the stats because the notion that one player, even a QB, has that amount of sole determination of a team's win/loss record is completely ridiculous. This is why I listen to people who actually know something about football rather than fantasy stat-crunchers.
Todem
Footballguy
Preach on Brutha...my point exactly...and that post by one of the so called FBG may be one of the worst I ever saw on a pure football level.OK, post them all and see what you get. Still way above average. Dude, here is my point, one more time: stats can be used to prove anything. Really just about anything. It can't be something that flies so in the face of reality that it is instantly dismissible, but you can use them to, oh, say that Eli Manning is a better QB than Brett Favre. You do this by manipulating stats. Here's how they did it:Eli does have more postseason wins from last year than Brett Favre has since 1998. I checked, it's a statistical fact. They use this to imply that Eli is better than Favre. Here are the unwritten manipulations and assumptions that are made to go from that fact to the implied message:Picking 5 categories from 1 year is not cherry picking????????????????????????????????I didn't cherry pick. I just looked up his rankings. When you start deciding which stats to keep in and which to keep out, that's when manipulation occurs and that's when they become deceiving. Are set in stone rankings based on stats considered stats anyway?Also notice you didn't refute anything I posted or explain how ranking in the top 10 in basically every category = average.So in response to a link stating that his stats were deceiving, you tell me what his stats were?Forgive me if I don't read the linked article. I'm sure there's some sort of statistical manipulations that somehow show his season last year was subpar. But since we are talking facts, here are some:HE was 4th in the league in passing yardage.
He tied for sixth in the league for TDs.
He was third in the league in ypa at 7.8.
He was no. 1 in the league with 16 40+ yard passes.
He tied for ninth in the league for interceptions (fewer than Palmer, Brees, and Romo).
Yeah, real average...
Also, his 05 and 06 seasons might have been subpar because the team ranked 30th (05) and 23rd (06) in rushing.
Favre is penalized for every year the Packers had a good enough record to get a bye (like last season) because he is denied the chance for a win.
1 superbowl win is more impressive than leading your team to several postseason appearances
The QB in both situations was the main reason for team success/failure. IOW, every Giant win (not counting any of the regular season losses that kept them out of the playoffs) is because of Eli. Obviously there were no losses since they won the SB. Every postseason win/loss is because of Favre (also not counting the regular season wins that got the Pack to the playoffs more than once.)
I'm not going to waste my time researching the stats because the notion that one player, even a QB, has that amount of sole determination of a team's win/loss record is completely ridiculous. This is why I listen to people who actually know something about football rather than fantasy stat-crunchers.
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Phurfur
Footballguy
OK, post them all and see what you get. Still way above average. Dude, here is my point, one more time: stats can be used to prove anything. Really just about anything. It can't be something that flies so in the face of reality that it is instantly dismissible, but you can use them to, oh, say that Eli Manning is a better QB than Brett Favre. You do this by manipulating stats. Here's how they did it:Eli does have more postseason wins from last year than Brett Favre has since 1998. I checked, it's a statistical fact. They use this to imply that Eli is better than Favre. Here are the unwritten manipulations and assumptions that are made to go from that fact to the implied message:Picking 5 categories from 1 year is not cherry picking????????????????????????????????I didn't cherry pick. I just looked up his rankings. When you start deciding which stats to keep in and which to keep out, that's when manipulation occurs and that's when they become deceiving. Are set in stone rankings based on stats considered stats anyway?Also notice you didn't refute anything I posted or explain how ranking in the top 10 in basically every category = average.So in response to a link stating that his stats were deceiving, you tell me what his stats were?Forgive me if I don't read the linked article. I'm sure there's some sort of statistical manipulations that somehow show his season last year was subpar. But since we are talking facts, here are some:HE was 4th in the league in passing yardage.
He tied for sixth in the league for TDs.
He was third in the league in ypa at 7.8.
He was no. 1 in the league with 16 40+ yard passes.
He tied for ninth in the league for interceptions (fewer than Palmer, Brees, and Romo).
Yeah, real average...
Also, his 05 and 06 seasons might have been subpar because the team ranked 30th (05) and 23rd (06) in rushing.
Favre is penalized for every year the Packers had a good enough record to get a bye (like last season) because he is denied the chance for a win.
1 superbowl win is more impressive than leading your team to several postseason appearances
The QB in both situations was the main reason for team success/failure. IOW, every Giant win (not counting any of the regular season losses that kept them out of the playoffs) is because of Eli. Obviously there were no losses since they won the SB. Every postseason win/loss is because of Favre (also not counting the regular season wins that got the Pack to the playoffs more than once.)
I'm not going to waste my time researching the stats because the notion that one player, even a QB, has that amount of sole determination of a team's win/loss record is completely ridiculous. This is why I listen to people who actually know something about football rather than fantasy stat-crunchers.
Your the one who cherry picked the stats!What does Eli have to do with anything I was talkig about Favre's Playoff record. It is what it is.
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Tau837
Footballguy
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