Favre Upset With Walker (1 Viewer)

[Chase Stuart]

I'm kind of on the fence on this one. While I like the perspective Favre brought to it because I believe people should stand by a contract in normal situations, this isn't a normal situation. The team isn't going to honor the contract if it isn't in their best interest, so I'm not sure we should expect the player to. It makes sense for Walker to want to renegotiate when he's got the best leverage, coming off a Pro Bowl season.

As a fan, it frustrates me to no end having players hold out, but I realize that is the way the business is run. I never thought I'd say this, but maybe the answer is looser free agency restrictions. If a player was a UFA after his rookie contract we might see fewer hold outs.

One other comment... while I did like the values that Favre's comment indicated, I'd have been even more impressed when talking about the team concept if he'd offered to take a pay cut to even out the pay of an underpaid teammate.

Exactly. Pennington offered to take a cut in pay to bring in a friend and help the team, but Favre just lashes out at a player in the media. But on the field, Favre is still the man.

 

[packersfan]

Mozzy backed up his claim with the reasons he thinks it'll be true.  Packersfan backed his up with the fact that he has enough confidence in his claim that he's willing to bet on it.

Isn't the board a lot more useful backing up with reasoning (and even facts) so they can be debated and contribute to the board, rather than by backing them up with a willingness to bet?

At this point, Mozzy has asked packersfan to provide what games he thinks the Pack can win, which hasn't been done.  So I'd say packersfan is the one who needs to back up his claim, not the other way around.

Fair enough. The Packers' defense was putrid last season and yet Green Bay still won 10 games and won another division title. Despite having a horrible defense they still were the best team in the division. I do not believe their defense can be any worse. In fact, I think it will be better (perhaps only slightly so) because I believe Bates is a MASSIVE upgrade as a coordinator over Slowik. So I believe the team will be better prepared and better coached and you will not see many of the problems that we saw last season (missed tackles in particular) because the defense will be more fundamentally sound.

Offensively, the Packers were a Top 5 offense last season and I do not believe they will slip this season. As I've said numerous times, guards are the easiest position on the O Line to replace so I'm not concerned about the line having a massive drop-off without Wahle and Rivera. The Packers don't need to find two Pro Bowl guards for the offense to function at a high level. That's the point so many people seem to be missing.

So I think the Packers this season will be a lot like last season. A questionable (and that's putting it kindly) defense and a high-powered offense.

One possible area of upgrade is the return game. If Murphy is as good as advertised he could fill a glaring need the team has had since Rossum left. And if the return game improves that will enable the offense to be even better (and it's already pretty damn good).

With regard to the rest of the division, the Lions are clearly improving on offense but their defense also has questions. The major question, though, is at QB where I think Harrington is awful and will prevent Detroit from really making a strong run at the division. The Vikings, meanwhile, have done a nice job on paper of addressing team needs, but if they think Darren Sharper is still a Pro Bowler they're going to be in for a big surprise. So I'm not yet convinced their defense will be significantly better. More importantly, we have to see how the offense will function without Moss. I believe they will still be potent, but the idea that this offense won't be affected by Moss' departure is foolish. In fact, I would say the Moss issue and the Harrington issue rank far above the guard issue in Green Bay as far as significant questions that need to be answered.

So when it's all said and done I would not be surprised to see the North fall the way it did last season -- with the Packers in first, the Vikings in second and the Lions continuing to inch forward. At worst, I would predict the Packers to finish second behind Minnesota. I just don't think Detroit is quite ready to be a division winner.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

The difference between TO and Javon is that Javon is still playing under his rookie contract and is going to make $515K this year (not much for a guy who had 1400 yds and 12 TDs last year). TO just signed a contract LAST YEAR and is already a cancer for the Eagles.

I can at least understand why Javon is holding out...TO needs to shut up and play.

$515k is a joke for a Pro Bowl WR. The Packers should lock him up before he decides to leave anyway. Most guys usually get to this point when they outperform their rookie contract and are vastly underpaid. I don't even see Javon and TO's situation even remotely similar. I understand Favre's point of view, but he's not the one playing for $515k either. If the Packers aren't going to give Walker a new contract on their own, he needs to do what is in his best interest.

The problem with Walker's demand is just that, it is a demand, and it is one against a team up against the cap wall.Yes Walker is underpaid. The Packers know this, and in the past have been willing to renegoatiate contracts that are massively out of whack, not because they are good guys, but because it makes good business sense to do so for rising stars. The normal procedure for this renegotiation is for the Agent to quietly approach the management with the request, acknowledge that with two years left on the deal the player is willing to work out a win/win situation after the rookies are signed, and then get the deal done in September while repecting the existing contract and the need for team unity.

The way to not do the deal is threaten an organization up against the cap when your client has two years of service left on his contract, and when the Q.B. for that team has a history of making stars out of receivers. Walker needs the Packers more than they need him.

Jeebus Javon, the pack paid FBOC, they will pay you, just shut up and get back on the reservation.

 

[packersfan]

The difference between TO and Javon is that Javon is still playing under his rookie contract and is going to make $515K this year (not much for a guy who had 1400 yds and 12 TDs last year). TO just signed a contract LAST YEAR and is already a cancer for the Eagles.

I can at least understand why Javon is holding out...TO needs to shut up and play.

$515k is a joke for a Pro Bowl WR. The Packers should lock him up before he decides to leave anyway. Most guys usually get to this point when they outperform their rookie contract and are vastly underpaid. I don't even see Javon and TO's situation even remotely similar. I understand Favre's point of view, but he's not the one playing for $515k either. If the Packers aren't going to give Walker a new contract on their own, he needs to do what is in his best interest.

The problem with Walker's demand is just that, it is a demand, and it is one against a team up against the cap wall.Yes Walker is underpaid. The Packers know this, and in the past have been willing to renegoatiate contracts that are massively out of whack, not because they are good guys, but because it makes good business sense to do so for rising stars. The normal procedure for this renegotiation is for the Agent to quietly approach the management with the request, acknowledge that with two years left on the deal the player is willing to work out a win/win situation after the rookies are signed, and then get the deal done in September while repecting the existing contract and the need for team unity.

The way to not do the deal is threaten an organization up against the cap when your client has two years of service left on his contract, and when the Q.B. for that team has a history of making stars out of receivers. Walker needs the Packers more than they need him.

Jeebus Javon, the pack paid FBOC, they will pay you, just shut up and get back on the reservation.

 

[coolbeans59]

Walker has TWO years left on his contract. I'm of the belief that if you want to renegotiate, work in escalators or voidable years, don't sign a 4+ year deal if you want to renegotiate in a year or 2.The Packers can't give in on this one. Most teams have a general rule that contracts won't be renegotiated with more than 1 year remaining.Let's also remember the big picture. How much is $500k+ a year? It's quite a bit of money. Most people on this board will make that much in 6-10 years of working! Walker is making that in one year.I understand he wants to make as much money as he can right now, because he's not guaranteed tomorrow ... but none of us are guaranteed tomorrow. Someone could carjack my car tonight, shoot a gun off next to my ears, blow out my eardrums and I'd be worthless to my company (I'm a radio producer & editor).It's a game, and right now Walker is getting paid a lot of money to play a GAME. He's got a contract and he should be a man an honor it. He has every right to ask for more money, but a real man would honor the contract and show the team he's a man of principle and worthy of getting a fat contract.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

I'm kind of on the fence on this one.  While I like the perspective Favre brought to it because I believe people should stand by a contract in normal situations, this isn't a normal situation.    The team isn't going to honor the contract if it isn't in their best interest, so I'm not sure we should expect the player to.  It makes sense for Walker to want to renegotiate when he's got the best leverage, coming off a Pro Bowl season.

As a fan, it frustrates me to no end having players hold out, but I realize that is the way the business is run.  I never thought I'd say this, but maybe the answer is looser free agency restrictions.  If a player was a UFA after his rookie contract we might see fewer hold outs.

One other comment... while I did like the values that Favre's comment indicated, I'd have been even more impressed when talking about the team concept if he'd offered to take a pay cut to even out the pay of an underpaid teammate.

Exactly. Pennington offered to take a cut in pay to bring in a friend and help the team, but Favre just lashes out at a player in the media. But on the field, Favre is still the man.

Favre has restructured in the past to aid his team. Had Walker gone about this correctly Favre may have done so again. Remeber this is not Walker's final year on the contract, he has two left. Do we really want the Pandora's box of players with two years left on their contracts starting to demand renegotiations like players in the final year have done?

 

[beef]

Walker - Rosenhaus = no holdoutI'm all for Walker and all these other players who hold out looking out for #1, but what does he think the Packers can do? They already let go 3 pro bowlers to get under the cap for the year. Does he want them to cut KGB so he can get paid?

 

[GregR_2]

Fair enough.

The Packers' defense was putrid last season and yet Green Bay still won 10 games and won another division title. Despite having a horrible defense they still were the best team in the division. I do not believe their defense can be any worse. In fact, I think it will be better (perhaps only slightly so) because I believe Bates is a MASSIVE upgrade as a coordinator over Slowik. So I believe the team will be better prepared and better coached and you will not see many of the problems that we saw last season (missed tackles in particular) because the defense will be more fundamentally sound.

Offensively, the Packers were a Top 5 offense last season and I do not believe they will slip this season. As I've said numerous times, guards are the easiest position on the O Line to replace so I'm not concerned about the line having a massive drop-off without Wahle and Rivera. The Packers don't need to find two Pro Bowl guards for the offense to function at a high level. That's the point so many people seem to be missing.

So I think the Packers this season will be a lot like last season. A questionable (and that's putting it kindly) defense and a high-powered offense.

One possible area of upgrade is the return game. If Murphy is as good as advertised he could fill a glaring need the team has had since Rossum left. And if the return game improves that will enable the offense to be even better (and it's already pretty damn good).

With regard to the rest of the division, the Lions are clearly improving on offense but their defense also has questions. The major question, though, is at QB where I think Harrington is awful and will prevent Detroit from really making a strong run at the division. The Vikings, meanwhile, have done a nice job on paper of addressing team needs, but if they think Darren Sharper is still a Pro Bowler they're going to be in for a big surprise. So I'm not yet convinced their defense will be significantly better. More importantly, we have to see how the offense will function without Moss. I believe they will still be potent, but the idea that this offense won't be affected by Moss' departure is foolish. In fact, I would say the Moss issue and the Harrington issue rank far above the guard issue in Green Bay as far as significant questions that need to be answered.

So when it's all said and done I would not be surprised to see the North fall the way it did last season -- with the Packers in first, the Vikings in second and the Lions continuing to inch forward. At worst, I would predict the Packers to finish second behind Minnesota. I just don't think Detroit is quite ready to be a division winner.

Good post. I think you might understimate how the Lions may pull together. But it's a very hard division to predict with every team having had some fairly major changes. I'd definitely take the over on 6 wins for the Packers.

 

[ravnzfan]

I don't buy for a second that "Favre wanted to come to camp". He's #####ed about attending mini-camp for years. I'd bet that Favre made it a condition on his returning for another season...Lose the attitude there son.

...as he sits on his $31.5M collected since '00...easy to do from that vantage pointand Walker was WR49 last season, BTW

his cap number, that is

 

[Chase Stuart]

Walker has TWO years left on his contract. I'm of the belief that if you want to renegotiate, work in escalators or voidable years, don't sign a 4+ year deal if you want to renegotiate in a year or 2.

The Packers can't give in on this one. Most teams have a general rule that contracts won't be renegotiated with more than 1 year remaining.

Let's also remember the big picture. How much is $500k+ a year? It's quite a bit of money. Most people on this board will make that much in 6-10 years of working! Walker is making that in one year.

I understand he wants to make as much money as he can right now, because he's not guaranteed tomorrow ... but none of us are guaranteed tomorrow. Someone could carjack my car tonight, shoot a gun off next to my ears, blow out my eardrums and I'd be worthless to my company (I'm a radio producer & editor).

It's a game, and right now Walker is getting paid a lot of money to play a GAME. He's got a contract and he should be a man an honor it. He has every right to ask for more money, but a real man would honor the contract and show the team he's a man of principle and worthy of getting a fat contract.

A "real man"? What exactly does that mean? Do you have a problem with a team signing a player to a six year deal and then cutting him after one? Does that make them not a "real organization"?

 

[Eagle Eye]

Do you have a problem with a team signing a player to a six year deal and then cutting him after one?

I don't. They paid for that right with the big signing bonus, which everyone forgets about when they talk about the peanuts players are gonna earn "this year."

 

[coolbeans59]

Walker has TWO years left on his contract.  I'm of the belief that if you want to renegotiate, work in escalators or voidable years, don't sign a 4+ year deal if you want to renegotiate in a year or 2.

The Packers can't give in on this one.  Most teams have a general rule that contracts won't be renegotiated with more than 1 year remaining.

Let's also remember the big picture.  How much is $500k+ a year?  It's quite a bit of money.  Most people on this board will make that much in 6-10 years of working!  Walker is making that in one year.

I understand he wants to make as much money as he can right now, because he's not guaranteed tomorrow ... but none of us are guaranteed tomorrow.  Someone could carjack my car tonight, shoot a gun off next to my ears, blow out my eardrums and I'd be worthless to my company (I'm a radio producer & editor).

It's a game, and right now Walker is getting paid a lot of money to play a GAME.  He's got a contract and he should be a man an honor it.  He has every right to ask for more money, but a real man would honor the contract and show the team he's a man of principle and worthy of getting a fat contract.

A "real man"? What exactly does that mean? Do you have a problem with a team signing a player to a six year deal and then cutting him after one? Does that make them not a "real organization"?

c'mon Chase, while I normally respect and value your opinion, but your blatently pro-athlete/anti-ownership slant is a old tired schtick. You believe what you want, I'll believe what I want. We've gone thru the motions of this argument, too many times and I tire of it.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Walker has TWO years left on his contract. I'm of the belief that if you want to renegotiate, work in escalators or voidable years, don't sign a 4+ year deal if you want to renegotiate in a year or 2.

The Packers can't give in on this one. Most teams have a general rule that contracts won't be renegotiated with more than 1 year remaining.

Let's also remember the big picture. How much is $500k+ a year? It's quite a bit of money. Most people on this board will make that much in 6-10 years of working! Walker is making that in one year.

I understand he wants to make as much money as he can right now, because he's not guaranteed tomorrow ... but none of us are guaranteed tomorrow. Someone could carjack my car tonight, shoot a gun off next to my ears, blow out my eardrums and I'd be worthless to my company (I'm a radio producer & editor).

It's a game, and right now Walker is getting paid a lot of money to play a GAME. He's got a contract and he should be a man an honor it. He has every right to ask for more money, but a real man would honor the contract and show the team he's a man of principle and worthy of getting a fat contract.

A "real man"? What exactly does that mean? Do you have a problem with a team signing a player to a six year deal and then cutting him after one? Does that make them not a "real organization"?

c'mon Chase, while I normally respect and value your opinion, but your blatently pro-athlete/anti-ownership slant is a old tired schtick. You believe what you want, I'll believe what I want. We've gone thru the motions of this argument, too many times and I tire of it.

I agree in that I'm tired of it too. But I don't have any problem with what the players are doing. It doesn't say in their contract that they can't hold out. It's not like he's leaving and playing for another team (his contract won't allow him to do that), he's simply choosing not to play. I don't think that's nearly as bad as most people admit, and I simply don't feel the need to side with billionaires over millionaires. If the team can cut you whenever, no reason why you can't hold out whenever.

 

[coolbeans59]

Walker has TWO years left on his contract.  I'm of the belief that if you want to renegotiate, work in escalators or voidable years, don't sign a 4+ year deal if you want to renegotiate in a year or 2.

The Packers can't give in on this one.  Most teams have a general rule that contracts won't be renegotiated with more than 1 year remaining.

Let's also remember the big picture.  How much is $500k+ a year?  It's quite a bit of money.  Most people on this board will make that much in 6-10 years of working!  Walker is making that in one year.

I understand he wants to make as much money as he can right now, because he's not guaranteed tomorrow ... but none of us are guaranteed tomorrow.  Someone could carjack my car tonight, shoot a gun off next to my ears, blow out my eardrums and I'd be worthless to my company (I'm a radio producer & editor).

It's a game, and right now Walker is getting paid a lot of money to play a GAME.  He's got a contract and he should be a man an honor it.  He has every right to ask for more money, but a real man would honor the contract and show the team he's a man of principle and worthy of getting a fat contract.

A "real man"? What exactly does that mean? Do you have a problem with a team signing a player to a six year deal and then cutting him after one? Does that make them not a "real organization"?

c'mon Chase, while I normally respect and value your opinion, but your blatently pro-athlete/anti-ownership slant is a old tired schtick. You believe what you want, I'll believe what I want. We've gone thru the motions of this argument, too many times and I tire of it.

I agree in that I'm tired of it too. But I don't have any problem with what the players are doing. It doesn't say in their contract that they can't hold out. It's not like he's leaving and playing for another team (his contract won't allow him to do that), he's simply choosing not to play. I don't think that's nearly as bad as most people admit, and I simply don't feel the need to side with billionaires over millionaires. If the team can cut you whenever, no reason why you can't hold out whenever.

you can hold out, but the team will fine you. And I'll think you, less of a man. But that's just me. Let me ask you this: Do you think MLB's guaranteed contracts would be good for the NFL?

 

[cstu]

Walker has TWO years left on his contract.  I'm of the belief that if you want to renegotiate, work in escalators or voidable years, don't sign a 4+ year deal if you want to renegotiate in a year or 2.

The Packers can't give in on this one.  Most teams have a general rule that contracts won't be renegotiated with more than 1 year remaining.

Let's also remember the big picture.  How much is $500k+ a year?  It's quite a bit of money.  Most people on this board will make that much in 6-10 years of working!  Walker is making that in one year.

I understand he wants to make as much money as he can right now, because he's not guaranteed tomorrow ... but none of us are guaranteed tomorrow.  Someone could carjack my car tonight, shoot a gun off next to my ears, blow out my eardrums and I'd be worthless to my company (I'm a radio producer & editor).

It's a game, and right now Walker is getting paid a lot of money to play a GAME.  He's got a contract and he should be a man an honor it.  He has every right to ask for more money, but a real man would honor the contract and show the team he's a man of principle and worthy of getting a fat contract.

A "real man"? What exactly does that mean? Do you have a problem with a team signing a player to a six year deal and then cutting him after one? Does that make them not a "real organization"?

IMO, Walker would be a fool to play this season for $515k. It may be a lot of money, but like it or not it's way below market value for a top WR in the NFL. Let's not forget that McCardell held out last year as a 34 year old WR with average stats and due around $2 million. It's ridiculous for Walker to play for peanuts after showing that he's one of the best WR's in the NFL.

 

[Bull Dozier]

Do you have a problem with a team signing a player to a six year deal and then cutting him after one?

I don't. They paid for that right with the big signing bonus, which everyone forgets about when they talk about the peanuts players are gonna earn "this year."

Exactly. Also, to those people saying the Pack need to renegotiate since "it's the right thing to do," how many rookie busts pay back their guaranteed money when it turns out they had no business being on an NFL field? Isn't that the right thing to do?

 

[cstu]

Walker has TWO years left on his contract.  I'm of the belief that if you want to renegotiate, work in escalators or voidable years, don't sign a 4+ year deal if you want to renegotiate in a year or 2.

The Packers can't give in on this one.  Most teams have a general rule that contracts won't be renegotiated with more than 1 year remaining.

Let's also remember the big picture.  How much is $500k+ a year?  It's quite a bit of money.  Most people on this board will make that much in 6-10 years of working!  Walker is making that in one year.

I understand he wants to make as much money as he can right now, because he's not guaranteed tomorrow ... but none of us are guaranteed tomorrow.  Someone could carjack my car tonight, shoot a gun off next to my ears, blow out my eardrums and I'd be worthless to my company (I'm a radio producer & editor).

It's a game, and right now Walker is getting paid a lot of money to play a GAME.  He's got a contract and he should be a man an honor it.  He has every right to ask for more money, but a real man would honor the contract and show the team he's a man of principle and worthy of getting a fat contract.

A "real man"? What exactly does that mean? Do you have a problem with a team signing a player to a six year deal and then cutting him after one? Does that make them not a "real organization"?

c'mon Chase, while I normally respect and value your opinion, but your blatently pro-athlete/anti-ownership slant is a old tired schtick. You believe what you want, I'll believe what I want. We've gone thru the motions of this argument, too many times and I tire of it.

I agree in that I'm tired of it too. But I don't have any problem with what the players are doing. It doesn't say in their contract that they can't hold out. It's not like he's leaving and playing for another team (his contract won't allow him to do that), he's simply choosing not to play. I don't think that's nearly as bad as most people admit, and I simply don't feel the need to side with billionaires over millionaires. If the team can cut you whenever, no reason why you can't hold out whenever.

As much as I hate players holding out, I understand it's part of the business. It's cut-throat and owners have no concern about cutting a player than isn't playing up to his salary. Most of us on this board talk about how such and such player should be cut everyday without even considering that the team signed a contract with the player and now they are bailing out of it. The way it stands now is that every player has to look out for themselves because no one else is going to. Sometimes this results in ridiculous situations like Owens and McCardell, but other times it helps a player get what he deserves, Emmitt for example. I think Favre is being arrogant to call Walker out like he did when he's making 20X what Walker is this year.

 

[cstu]

Do you have a problem with a team signing a player to a six year deal and then cutting him after one?

I don't. They paid for that right with the big signing bonus, which everyone forgets about when they talk about the peanuts players are gonna earn "this year."

Exactly. Also, to those people saying the Pack need to renegotiate since "it's the right thing to do," how many rookie busts pay back their guaranteed money when it turns out they had no business being on an NFL field? Isn't that the right thing to do?

So Walker should have to pay for all the bad draft picks that teams make?

 

[BlueOnion]

So Walker should have to pay for all the bad draft picks that teams make?

Depends. Does Walker consider himself part of the team? If so, I would say yes. If no, than probably not.

 

[cstu]

So Walker should have to pay for all the bad draft picks that teams make? 

Depends. Does Walker consider himself part of the team? If so, I would say yes. If no, than probably not.

I don't see Favre willing to take a pay cut - is he not a team player?

 

[packersfan]

So Walker should have to pay for all the bad draft picks that teams make?  

Depends. Does Walker consider himself part of the team? If so, I would say yes. If no, than probably not.

I don't see Favre willing to take a pay cut - is he not a team player?

As mentioned earlier, Favre has restructured his contract numerous times to help the team out.

 

[beef]

So Walker should have to pay for all the bad draft picks that teams make?  

Depends. Does Walker consider himself part of the team? If so, I would say yes. If no, than probably not.

I don't see Favre willing to take a pay cut - is he not a team player?

As mentioned earlier, Favre has restructured his contract numerous times to help the team out.

Why not do it again then?

 

[Chase Stuart]

Walker has TWO years left on his contract. I'm of the belief that if you want to renegotiate, work in escalators or voidable years, don't sign a 4+ year deal if you want to renegotiate in a year or 2.

The Packers can't give in on this one. Most teams have a general rule that contracts won't be renegotiated with more than 1 year remaining.

Let's also remember the big picture. How much is $500k+ a year? It's quite a bit of money. Most people on this board will make that much in 6-10 years of working! Walker is making that in one year.

I understand he wants to make as much money as he can right now, because he's not guaranteed tomorrow ... but none of us are guaranteed tomorrow. Someone could carjack my car tonight, shoot a gun off next to my ears, blow out my eardrums and I'd be worthless to my company (I'm a radio producer & editor).

It's a game, and right now Walker is getting paid a lot of money to play a GAME. He's got a contract and he should be a man an honor it. He has every right to ask for more money, but a real man would honor the contract and show the team he's a man of principle and worthy of getting a fat contract.

A "real man"? What exactly does that mean? Do you have a problem with a team signing a player to a six year deal and then cutting him after one? Does that make them not a "real organization"?

c'mon Chase, while I normally respect and value your opinion, but your blatently pro-athlete/anti-ownership slant is a old tired schtick. You believe what you want, I'll believe what I want. We've gone thru the motions of this argument, too many times and I tire of it.

I agree in that I'm tired of it too. But I don't have any problem with what the players are doing. It doesn't say in their contract that they can't hold out. It's not like he's leaving and playing for another team (his contract won't allow him to do that), he's simply choosing not to play. I don't think that's nearly as bad as most people admit, and I simply don't feel the need to side with billionaires over millionaires. If the team can cut you whenever, no reason why you can't hold out whenever.

you can hold out, but the team will fine you. And I'll think you, less of a man. But that's just me. Let me ask you this: Do you think MLB's guaranteed contracts would be good for the NFL?

Good in some ways, but likely bad overall. I think the NFL's system is just fine (and I'm not up in arms when a player holds out. I'm more up in arms when a teammate making 10X as much as him calls him out.)

 

[Eagle Eye]

So Walker should have to pay for all the bad draft picks that teams make?  

Depends. Does Walker consider himself part of the team? If so, I would say yes. If no, than probably not.

I don't see Favre willing to take a pay cut - is he not a team player?

As mentioned earlier, Favre has restructured his contract numerous times to help the team out.

Why not do it again then?

Surely you guys understand the difference between a "pay cut" and a renegotiation.

 

[Eagle Eye]

Walker has TWO years left on his contract.  I'm of the belief that if you want to renegotiate, work in escalators or voidable years, don't sign a 4+ year deal if you want to renegotiate in a year or 2.

The Packers can't give in on this one.  Most teams have a general rule that contracts won't be renegotiated with more than 1 year remaining.

Let's also remember the big picture.  How much is $500k+ a year?  It's quite a bit of money.  Most people on this board will make that much in 6-10 years of working!  Walker is making that in one year.

I understand he wants to make as much money as he can right now, because he's not guaranteed tomorrow ... but none of us are guaranteed tomorrow.  Someone could carjack my car tonight, shoot a gun off next to my ears, blow out my eardrums and I'd be worthless to my company (I'm a radio producer & editor).

It's a game, and right now Walker is getting paid a lot of money to play a GAME.  He's got a contract and he should be a man an honor it.  He has every right to ask for more money, but a real man would honor the contract and show the team he's a man of principle and worthy of getting a fat contract.

A "real man"? What exactly does that mean? Do you have a problem with a team signing a player to a six year deal and then cutting him after one? Does that make them not a "real organization"?

c'mon Chase, while I normally respect and value your opinion, but your blatently pro-athlete/anti-ownership slant is a old tired schtick. You believe what you want, I'll believe what I want. We've gone thru the motions of this argument, too many times and I tire of it.

I agree in that I'm tired of it too. But I don't have any problem with what the players are doing. It doesn't say in their contract that they can't hold out. It's not like he's leaving and playing for another team (his contract won't allow him to do that), he's simply choosing not to play. I don't think that's nearly as bad as most people admit, and I simply don't feel the need to side with billionaires over millionaires. If the team can cut you whenever, no reason why you can't hold out whenever.

you can hold out, but the team will fine you. And I'll think you, less of a man. But that's just me. Let me ask you this: Do you think MLB's guaranteed contracts would be good for the NFL?

Good in some ways, but likely bad overall. I think the NFL's system is just fine (and I'm not up in arms when a player holds out. I'm more up in arms when a teammate making 10X as much as him calls him out.)

Once upon a time, that guy was playing on a rookie contract too.

 

[cstu]

Pennington taking a $2 millon "pay cut" for Coles = team playerFavre not doing anything for Walker = selfish

 

[packersfan]

Walker has TWO years left on his contract.  I'm of the belief that if you want to renegotiate, work in escalators or voidable years, don't sign a 4+ year deal if you want to renegotiate in a year or 2.

The Packers can't give in on this one.  Most teams have a general rule that contracts won't be renegotiated with more than 1 year remaining.

Let's also remember the big picture.  How much is $500k+ a year?  It's quite a bit of money.  Most people on this board will make that much in 6-10 years of working!  Walker is making that in one year.

I understand he wants to make as much money as he can right now, because he's not guaranteed tomorrow ... but none of us are guaranteed tomorrow.  Someone could carjack my car tonight, shoot a gun off next to my ears, blow out my eardrums and I'd be worthless to my company (I'm a radio producer & editor).

It's a game, and right now Walker is getting paid a lot of money to play a GAME.  He's got a contract and he should be a man an honor it.  He has every right to ask for more money, but a real man would honor the contract and show the team he's a man of principle and worthy of getting a fat contract.

A "real man"? What exactly does that mean? Do you have a problem with a team signing a player to a six year deal and then cutting him after one? Does that make them not a "real organization"?

c'mon Chase, while I normally respect and value your opinion, but your blatently pro-athlete/anti-ownership slant is a old tired schtick. You believe what you want, I'll believe what I want. We've gone thru the motions of this argument, too many times and I tire of it.

I agree in that I'm tired of it too. But I don't have any problem with what the players are doing. It doesn't say in their contract that they can't hold out. It's not like he's leaving and playing for another team (his contract won't allow him to do that), he's simply choosing not to play. I don't think that's nearly as bad as most people admit, and I simply don't feel the need to side with billionaires over millionaires. If the team can cut you whenever, no reason why you can't hold out whenever.

you can hold out, but the team will fine you. And I'll think you, less of a man. But that's just me. Let me ask you this: Do you think MLB's guaranteed contracts would be good for the NFL?

Good in some ways, but likely bad overall. I think the NFL's system is just fine (and I'm not up in arms when a player holds out. I'm more up in arms when a teammate making 10X as much as him calls him out.)

Once upon a time, that guy was playing on a rookie contract too.

Not to mention the fact that there are other QBs who have accomplished a helluva lot less who are making a helluva lot more :coughPeytonManningcoughMichaelVick: but Favre has never held out or made a public stink about his contract situation. He's always handled it internally which is how he probably prefers Walker would do it. Favre is smart enough to know the Packers would do everything they can to lock up Walker long-term. The problem is Walker, as Favre points out, is getting bad advice and so instead of working with the Packers now Walker is working against them. And he's potentially creating an unnecessary distraction in the process. As the best player on the team Favre is simply stepping up to say that if Walker's going to go this route the team will simply move on without him.Good move by Favre as far as I'm concerned.

 

[packersfan]

Pennington taking a $2 millon "pay cut" for Coles = team player

Favre not doing anything for Walker = selfish

So all the other times Favre has redone his contract to help the team suddenly get ignored? Sorry but ...

 

[coolbeans59]

Pennington taking a $2 millon "pay cut" for Coles = team player

Favre not doing anything for Walker = selfish

What makes you all so absolutely sure he's not willing to do anything? Considering Brett has done it before, I'm sure he'd do it again. He's just making a statement that IF Javon wants more money, there's less public ways of getting the job done that aren't going to take focus away from the TEAM, focus on the individual and potentially ruin a good thing Brett thinks can potentially happen this season.

 

[cstu]

Walker has TWO years left on his contract.  I'm of the belief that if you want to renegotiate, work in escalators or voidable years, don't sign a 4+ year deal if you want to renegotiate in a year or 2.

The Packers can't give in on this one.  Most teams have a general rule that contracts won't be renegotiated with more than 1 year remaining.

Let's also remember the big picture.  How much is $500k+ a year?  It's quite a bit of money.  Most people on this board will make that much in 6-10 years of working!  Walker is making that in one year.

I understand he wants to make as much money as he can right now, because he's not guaranteed tomorrow ... but none of us are guaranteed tomorrow.  Someone could carjack my car tonight, shoot a gun off next to my ears, blow out my eardrums and I'd be worthless to my company (I'm a radio producer & editor).

It's a game, and right now Walker is getting paid a lot of money to play a GAME.  He's got a contract and he should be a man an honor it.  He has every right to ask for more money, but a real man would honor the contract and show the team he's a man of principle and worthy of getting a fat contract.

A "real man"? What exactly does that mean? Do you have a problem with a team signing a player to a six year deal and then cutting him after one? Does that make them not a "real organization"?

c'mon Chase, while I normally respect and value your opinion, but your blatently pro-athlete/anti-ownership slant is a old tired schtick. You believe what you want, I'll believe what I want. We've gone thru the motions of this argument, too many times and I tire of it.

I agree in that I'm tired of it too. But I don't have any problem with what the players are doing. It doesn't say in their contract that they can't hold out. It's not like he's leaving and playing for another team (his contract won't allow him to do that), he's simply choosing not to play. I don't think that's nearly as bad as most people admit, and I simply don't feel the need to side with billionaires over millionaires. If the team can cut you whenever, no reason why you can't hold out whenever.

you can hold out, but the team will fine you. And I'll think you, less of a man. But that's just me. Let me ask you this: Do you think MLB's guaranteed contracts would be good for the NFL?

Good in some ways, but likely bad overall. I think the NFL's system is just fine (and I'm not up in arms when a player holds out. I'm more up in arms when a teammate making 10X as much as him calls him out.)

Once upon a time, that guy was playing on a rookie contract too.

Favre transactions1994 - 5 year, $19 millon contract extension

 

[cstu]

Pennington taking a $2 millon "pay cut" for Coles = team player

Favre not doing anything for Walker = selfish

What makes you all so absolutely sure he's not willing to do anything? Considering Brett has done it before, I'm sure he'd do it again. He's just making a statement that IF Javon wants more money, there's less public ways of getting the job done.

You may be sure about it, but Walker apparently wasn't. This didn't come out of nowhere and Favre probably knew that Walker wanted a new contract and hasn't anything yet. I would think that Favre would want to keep his best WR happy.

 

[packersfan]

Pennington taking a $2 millon "pay cut" for Coles = team player

Favre not doing anything for Walker = selfish

What makes you all so absolutely sure he's not willing to do anything? Considering Brett has done it before, I'm sure he'd do it again. He's just making a statement that IF Javon wants more money, there's less public ways of getting the job done.

You may be sure about it, but Walker apparently wasn't. This didn't come out of nowhere and Favre probably knew that Walker wanted a new contract and hasn't anything yet. I would think that Favre would want to keep his best WR happy.

You could argue that the best way for Walker to end up being real happy is honor his contract and prove last season wasn't a fluke and that he really is one of the game's rising young WR stars.Just some additional food for thought.

 

[Banger]

Pennington taking a $2 millon "pay cut" for Coles = team player

Favre not doing anything for Walker = selfish

What makes you all so absolutely sure he's not willing to do anything? Considering Brett has done it before, I'm sure he'd do it again. He's just making a statement that IF Javon wants more money, there's less public ways of getting the job done.

You may be sure about it, but Walker apparently wasn't. This didn't come out of nowhere and Favre probably knew that Walker wanted a new contract and hasn't anything yet. I would think that Favre would want to keep his best WR happy.

You could argue that the best way for Walker to end up being real happy is honor his contract and prove last season wasn't a fluke and that he really is one of the game's rising young WR stars.Just some additional food for thought.

or the team could meet him halfway and realize that he is a talent, he is way under market and will be with the team for years to come and renegotiate his deal.

 

[packersfan]

Pennington taking a $2 millon "pay cut" for Coles = team player

Favre not doing anything for Walker = selfish

What makes you all so absolutely sure he's not willing to do anything? Considering Brett has done it before, I'm sure he'd do it again. He's just making a statement that IF Javon wants more money, there's less public ways of getting the job done.

You may be sure about it, but Walker apparently wasn't. This didn't come out of nowhere and Favre probably knew that Walker wanted a new contract and hasn't anything yet. I would think that Favre would want to keep his best WR happy.

You could argue that the best way for Walker to end up being real happy is honor his contract and prove last season wasn't a fluke and that he really is one of the game's rising young WR stars.Just some additional food for thought.

or the team could meet him halfway and realize that he is a talent, he is way under market and will be with the team for years to come and renegotiate his deal.

Perhaps if Walker hadn't gone public that's precisely what would have happened. But unfortunately for Walker that's not the Drew Rosenhaus way.

 

[Eagle Eye]

Favre transactions

1994 - 5 year, $19 millon contract extension

Checked out your links. From the 2nd one (SI)....--February 7, 1993

At 23 years old, Favre becomes the youngest quarterback ever to earn a trip to the Pro Bowl in Hawaii.

--January 8, 1994

Favre leads the Packers to a thrilling 28-24 win against the Detroit Lions to give Green Bay its first playoff victory since 1982.

--July 15, 1994

Favre and Packers agree on a five-year, $19 million contract extension. "I'm very excited to know I'm going to be here for five more years," says Favre. "I really feel like this is the team to beat in the next few years."

After his first Pro Bowl he played the next season -- still on his rookie contract -- and lead the team to the playoffs. That summer he was rewarded with his contract extension.

 

[Man in the yellow hat]

By the way, this bears repeating, no where is Favre saying Walker shouldn't be paid more. He's simply saying there are better ways to go about getting a raise than holding out. I'm guessing that Walker and his buddy Drew did not approach Packer management about a new contract prior to just holding out. Again, there are better ways to go about this, that's Favre's point, and the one you all seem to be missing due to your Packer/Favre hatred.

 

[Banger]

By the way, this bears repeating, no where is Favre saying Walker shouldn't be paid more. He's simply saying there are better ways to go about getting a raise than holding out. I'm guessing that Walker and his buddy Drew did not approach Packer management about a new contract prior to just holding out. Again, there are better ways to go about this, that's Favre's point, and the one you all seem to be missing due to your Packer/Favre hatred.

 

[Muahahaha]

Mozzy backed up his claim with the reasons he thinks it'll be true. Packersfan backed his up with the fact that he has enough confidence in his claim that he's willing to bet on it.

Isn't the board a lot more useful backing up with reasoning (and even facts) so they can be debated and contribute to the board, rather than by backing them up with a willingness to bet?

At this point, Mozzy has asked packersfan to provide what games he thinks the Pack can win, which hasn't been done. So I'd say packersfan is the one who needs to back up his claim, not the other way around.

Fair enough. The Packers' defense was putrid last season and yet Green Bay still won 10 games and won another division title. Despite having a horrible defense they still were the best team in the division. I do not believe their defense can be any worse. In fact, I think it will be better (perhaps only slightly so) because I believe Bates is a MASSIVE upgrade as a coordinator over Slowik. So I believe the team will be better prepared and better coached and you will not see many of the problems that we saw last season (missed tackles in particular) because the defense will be more fundamentally sound.

Offensively, the Packers were a Top 5 offense last season and I do not believe they will slip this season. As I've said numerous times, guards are the easiest position on the O Line to replace so I'm not concerned about the line having a massive drop-off without Wahle and Rivera. The Packers don't need to find two Pro Bowl guards for the offense to function at a high level. That's the point so many people seem to be missing.

So I think the Packers this season will be a lot like last season. A questionable (and that's putting it kindly) defense and a high-powered offense.

One possible area of upgrade is the return game. If Murphy is as good as advertised he could fill a glaring need the team has had since Rossum left. And if the return game improves that will enable the offense to be even better (and it's already pretty damn good).

With regard to the rest of the division, the Lions are clearly improving on offense but their defense also has questions. The major question, though, is at QB where I think Harrington is awful and will prevent Detroit from really making a strong run at the division. The Vikings, meanwhile, have done a nice job on paper of addressing team needs, but if they think Darren Sharper is still a Pro Bowler they're going to be in for a big surprise. So I'm not yet convinced their defense will be significantly better. More importantly, we have to see how the offense will function without Moss. I believe they will still be potent, but the idea that this offense won't be affected by Moss' departure is foolish. In fact, I would say the Moss issue and the Harrington issue rank far above the guard issue in Green Bay as far as significant questions that need to be answered.

So when it's all said and done I would not be surprised to see the North fall the way it did last season -- with the Packers in first, the Vikings in second and the Lions continuing to inch forward. At worst, I would predict the Packers to finish second behind Minnesota. I just don't think Detroit is quite ready to be a division winner.

OK. Let me get this straight. Losing Wahle and Rivera won't hurt the team. Losing Sharper won't hurt the team. Now, I guess, losing Javon Walker won't hurt the team.My question is this: whose departure would hurt the team??!?

The other question I have is: wouldn't it be possible for the Pack to only win 5 or 6 games AND finish 2nd in the NFC North? What is your over/under for the Pack's win total this year?

 

[Sidewinder]

While I agree with Brett's comments about Walker, he's got a lot of effin nerve criticizing another player like that WHILE HE ISN'T EVEN REPORTING TO PACKERS MINI-CAMP HIMSELF....

Favre wanted to come to mini camp. Mike Sherman told him to stay home.They have 3 QB's in camp and want to give them the lions share of the reps.

Know what you are talking about before you decide to post.

I don't buy for a second that "Favre wanted to come to camp". He's #####ed about attending mini-camp for years. I'd bet that Favre made it a condition on his returning for another season...Lose the attitude there son.

Guess you idiots who are busting Favre's balls for not being at camp have FORGOTTEN about his wife's health problems ...

 

[Bull Dozier]

Do you have a problem with a team signing a player to a six year deal and then cutting him after one?

I don't. They paid for that right with the big signing bonus, which everyone forgets about when they talk about the peanuts players are gonna earn "this year."

Exactly. Also, to those people saying the Pack need to renegotiate since "it's the right thing to do," how many rookie busts pay back their guaranteed money when it turns out they had no business being on an NFL field? Isn't that the right thing to do?

So Walker should have to pay for all the bad draft picks that teams make?

I didn't say that, nor imply that. Not sure where that came from. I'm simply stating both the team and the players have various tools at their disposals. Rookie contracts are such that league rules and the market join to limit most deals. Teams normally have the edge here, at least with all but the highest selected players. Players have the ability to counter market forces by holding out and demanding extensions. Teams can counter that with the ability to cut players and end their contract. The opposite to that is the right of the players to get signing bonuses that they don't have to pay back when they stink up the joint.I'm all for players demanding restructuring when things are really out of whack, but lets get serious here. While Javon Walker has the potential to be one of the best FANTASY wide receivers in the league, are we really saying that his NFL ability is on par with the Marvin Harrison's, Owens, Moss', and Holts of the league? I certainly don't think so. He's being paid what he agreed to play for when signing his last contract. I'd expect him to live up to that contract until just before the final year. He didn't have to sign that long of a contract, and if he thought he could have proven himself in fewer years, he should have done so.

Regardless, Walker is probably smart for wanting money now, cause as soon as Brett retires, Walker won't be able to point at his stats to show he deserves to be shown the money.

 

[Carl Spackler]

While I agree with Brett's comments about Walker, he's got a lot of effin nerve criticizing another player like that WHILE HE ISN'T EVEN REPORTING TO PACKERS MINI-CAMP HIMSELF....

Favre wanted to come to mini camp. Mike Sherman told him to stay home.They have 3 QB's in camp and want to give them the lions share of the reps.

Know what you are talking about before you decide to post.

 

[The FPI]

Pennington taking a $2 millon "pay cut" for Coles = team player

Favre not doing anything for Walker = selfish

Correct me if I am wrong, but Pennington took the hit so the Jets could ACQUIRE Coles who was NOT under contract with the Jets at the time.Walker has 2 years left on his deal WITH the Packers.

I fail to see the connection here.

 

[gruecd]

I still can't believe that there are people who defend POS like Walker and TO. :( And I really can't believe that there are people comparing Walker to Favre. Give me a break. Next thing you know, somebody will play the race card. Just watch.

 

[The FPI]

By the way, this bears repeating, no where is Favre saying Walker shouldn't be paid more. He's simply saying there are better ways to go about getting a raise than holding out. I'm guessing that Walker and his buddy Drew did not approach Packer management about a new contract prior to just holding out. Again, there are better ways to go about this, that's Favre's point, and the one you all seem to be missing due to your Packer/Favre hatred.

Agreed.

 

[Phlash]

While I agree with Brett's comments about Walker, he's got a lot of effin nerve criticizing another player like that WHILE HE ISN'T EVEN REPORTING TO PACKERS MINI-CAMP HIMSELF....

Brett Favre doesn't want to participate in his 14th mini-camp.Mini-Camps = Macro-Boring

 

[beef]

Pennington taking a $2 millon "pay cut" for Coles = team player

Favre not doing anything for Walker = selfish

Correct me if I am wrong, but Pennington took the hit so the Jets could ACQUIRE Coles who was NOT under contract with the Jets at the time.Walker has 2 years left on his deal WITH the Packers.

I fail to see the connection here.

so do i. complete different situation is you ask me.now if the packers ask favre if he'll take a pay cut to help sign some big name defensive player i'm sure he'd do it.

 

[Eagle Eye]

10 User(s) are reading this topic (3 Guests and 1 Anonymous Users)

6 Members: Eagle Eye, beef, The FPI, top dog, FAVRE, Carl Spackler

Wonder how he feels...

 

[Carl Spackler]

I'm a bit surprised at the Pro-Brett reaction here. Let's see:

Favre's cap hit this year is 6.5M. Walker's is 515K. Walker is eight years younger than Favre, and ranked as the second best WR in FF last year. And Favre calls Walker out for wanting more money? I'm never a fan of people sticking their noses in other people's contracts. Seriously, why is Favre getting involved in Walker's finances? How silly would it look if Walker came out and said "I can't believe we're paying Brett Favre this much money."

Is Favre going to support Walker for the rest of his life? If he gets a career ending injury this year, then what happens? The Packers would cut him and he'd never see another dime from them.

Favre the athlete

Favre the "team player" (really builds team unity calling out the best player on your team)

Pitiful that Mr. Lay Down is attacking someone else's integrity. He's becoming the NFL's version of Curt Schililng.

This has to be one of the most ridiculous and ignorant things I have ever seen you post.

 

[Carl Spackler]

$515k is a joke for a Pro Bowl WR. The Packers should lock him up before he decides to leave anyway. Most guys usually get to this point when they outperform their rookie contract and are vastly underpaid. I don't even see Javon and TO's situation even remotely similar. I understand Favre's point of view, but he's not the one playing for $515k either. If the Packers aren't going to give Walker a new contract on their own, he needs to do what is in his best interest.

I agree with this 100%. The problems here are:- that Walker has 2 years left on his contract.

- Walker didn't go to the Pakers directly and ask for a raise. He signed Rosenhous who told him to go public and hold out.

- The Packers have renegotiated their stars contracts many many times before. They keep it in house. Walker would have gotten a new deal no question about it, but going this route moronic.

No one said the packers wouldn't give him a new contract, he jumped the gun and went public after hiring Rosenhous because Rosenhous doesn't make a dime until he gets a new deal.

This is Rosenhous talking ####, and Walker stupid enough to believe him.

 

[beef]

what happened to mckenzie when he went public about a new contract? what happened when al harris kept in in the clubhouse?there are proper way to go about it.