"FBG Commish Ruling" on Mon Nite - Our .02 (2 Viewers)

[Cybergeek]

FLM is our stats service. Here is our league's current feeling on the play.

If Bledsoe fumbled and Henry recovered and ran it in for a score, FLM would give Henry the TD (no yardage) and that would be it.

FLM does not have "fumble recovery TD by QB, RB, WR, TE, K" as a valid scoring category but have awarded it in the past as a TD for the offensive player.

Since the fumble is scored by the NFL as miscellaneous which removes it from the D they have treated it as if McCardell recovered a fumble while on offense.

Seems reasonable, logical and consistant.

If they change their mind, we'll change ours. Basicly, we are awaiting any possible change to the interpretation of miscellaneous by FLM.Case closed.

I use MFL as well. The problem is that they have left the actual recovery of the fumble as a defensive score. Their reasoning is that they had nowhere else to put it. There is some talk of adding a new category to handle this situation.

 

[shmagu]

But that's simply not true...the NFL ruled McCardell's TD as Fumble Return...and if you look at his stats on NFL.com...you'll clearly see 3 Receiving Offensive TD's and 1 Defensive TD.NFL.com ruled it as a "Defensive TD"...not miscellaneous...

Exactly why I can't believe this is even an issue anymore.

 

[heckmanm]

After the interception, Tampa Bay began defending their endzone. While defending their endzone, they caused a turnover and returned it for a TD.

And after the fumble, Indianapolis began defending their endzone. Why, after the first turnover, does the offense become the defense, but after the second turnover, they don't become the offense again? So now there are two defenses (and no offenses) on the field?As soon as you start talking about teams "becoming the offense" and "becoming the defense" after a turnover, every touchdown is an "offensive" touchdown.

I don't have a perfect solution for this. I need to check our league's results to see if it affected any game results for us.

 

[GoRaiders]

From RTSports:The AP originally ruled Kennan McCardell's fumble recovery a DEFENSIVE TD, but then correctly changed it to an OFFENSIVE TD. We actually consulted with the NFL office about this issue years ago. Unlike a special teams play -- where the special teams unit is either the offense or defense as soon as the ball passes the line of scrimmage -- during a normal play the offensive unit is still considered to be on offense throughout the life of the play, even if there is a change of possession.The bottom line: McCardell's TD was on OFFENSE. This is how Defenses can score TDs. They are still considered D's even after the change of possession. Just as the argument earlier stated if the D became offensive at the time of possession change, then D's could really never score TD's then could they. The Defense is defense until the play is over. The offense is offense. Period. This is the only way to look at it. You can't honestly say that it's OK for D's to get credit with TDs when they recover a fumble and run it back when, as some have stated here, they are considered on offense at that point. But then when an offensive unit loses the ball, gains it back and run it in for a TD, that teams D also gets credit for a TD? Makes no sense.

 

[tdoss]

But that's simply not true...the NFL ruled McCardell's TD as Fumble Return...and if you look at his stats on NFL.com...you'll clearly see 3 Receiving Offensive TD's and 1 Defensive TD.NFL.com ruled it as a "Defensive TD"...not miscellaneous...

Exactly why I can't believe this is even an issue anymore.

However...here's the rub...it's got nothing to do with "change of possession"...Check NFL.com's stats for ARicard.If you remember, JLewis fumbled a couple weeks ago and the FB ARicard picked up the ball and ran it for a TD. No change of possession...so...I initially thought...offensive TD...but it appears the NFL ruled it also as a "Fumble Return for TD" and ARicard's Offensive stats do not reflect any TD's.They also ruled that as a Defensive TD.So...in that respect...it sounds like change of possession doesn't matter...once the ball is fumbled...it's a fumble return for TD and therefore a defensive TD.But...now...I ask...what if say EJames is running the ball...fumbles...then picks it up and runs it in?Should be his TD, right? But it doesn't appear that the NFL would rule it as such...it would be "Fumble Return for TD"...and therefore Defensive TD and go down as defensive stats and not under his offensive stats.

 

[shmagu]

And after the fumble, Indianapolis began defending their endzone. Why, after the first turnover, does the offense become the defense, but after the second turnover, they don't become the offense again? So now there are two defenses (and no offenses) on the field?

As soon as you start talking about teams "becoming the offense" and "becoming the defense" after a turnover, every touchdown is an "offensive" touchdown.

I don't have a perfect solution for this. I need to check our league's results to see if it affected any game results for us.

Not exactly, since they didn't begin the possession on offense. They got possession of the ball while defending their endzone. The same holds true for TB after the interception. They were defending their endzone when they took possession back. The only sequence that began a possession on offense was the initial play.

 

[tdoss]

The bottom line: McCardell's TD was on OFFENSE.

If all that's true...then why does NFL.com show KMcCardell's stats for the year as having 3 Receiving Offensive TD's and 1 Defensive TD?

 

[MarshallRob]

Does anyone know the answer to my earlier question: If McCardell picked up a fumble from one of his own teammates and returned it for a TD, does he get credit for any rushing yards?

 

[GoRaiders]

From the NFL Rulebook: "Rule 3, Section 35, Article 1 Whenever a team is in possession, it is the Offense and, at such time, its opponent is the Defense. Rule 3, Section 35, Article 2 The team that puts the ball in play is Team A, and its oponent is Team B. For brevity, a player on Team A is referred to as A1 and his teammate as A2, A3, etc. Opponents are B1, B2, etc. Note: A team becomes Team A when it has been designated to put ball in play, and it remains Team A until a down ends, even though there might be one or more changes of possession during the down. This is in contrast with the terms Offense and Defense. Team A is the offense when the down starts, but becomes the defense if and when B secures possession during the down, and vice versa for each change of possession."As I stated earlier - the team that is on OFFENSIVE stays on OFFENSIVE until the play is OVER.End of debate. Tampa gets no TD, McCard gets the TD.

 

[Goose]

Does anyone know the answer to my earlier question: If McCardell picked up a fumble from one of his own teammates and returned it for a TD, does he get credit for any rushing yards?

No, just the TD.

 

[Cunning Linguist]

I think if the D gets credit for the score, you have to give Mike Doss 15 yards of offensive rushing. He was on offense right??

 

[shmagu]

I think if the D gets credit for the score, you have to give Mike Doss 15 yards of offensive rushing. He was on offense right??

No...the only offensive play was the initial sequence until the ball was intercepted.

 

[Cunning Linguist]

right. then the ball was intercepted (colts on offense, bucs on defense) mike doss rushes for 15 yards.Using the "bucs were on "D"" argument of course.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

This is why you simply have a rule that the STAT service you are using is the official and ONLY arbitrator of scoring decisions like these - assuming you have no specific rule in place to cover it. It is also why you set a drop dead cutoff for the weekly scoring instead of it is only a "lazy commissioner" whom won't change scoring. I'm in several leagues where it will be apparently scored multiple ways, one of which gives Tampa Bay the Fumbler Recovery and not the TD.Way too much energy is being put into these 6 or 8 points and really any commissioner trying to decide this for a league where they have a personal interest is in a "no win" situation. A cold and heartless stat service who doesn't care one bit about any of the teams in your league is the only fair way to go. Note, I'm not even sure having a rule in place to cover this is fair because I'm not certain it would have been an issue if it wasn't on Monday Night by probably the most owned and started defense.I think that McCardell can only get points if you reward points for returns. It wasn't a carry and it wasn't a reception.Tampa gets the defensive recovery and return points if you stick to the letter of what is offense and what is defense when the play happened. While all returns are offensive plays as has been pointed out several times, but the fumble recovery in this case is what leads to the return was a play by a defender. Just like a kick return has the returning team on offense once possession is established to toggle some rules off (like empitus of the ball so no safety or muff vs fumble) and turns others on. However, if you go by the SPIRIT of the rules, then Tampa should not get the points because the spirit of the rule is the unit that represents the Tampa defense.Sound arguements can and have been made for both of the last two cases...I think the best way is to handle this, without a specific rule, is to say the STAT Service is GOD.

 

[Shaft]

From the NFL Rulebook: "Rule 3, Section 35, Article 1 Whenever a team is in possession, it is the Offense and, at such time, its opponent is the Defense. Rule 3, Section 35, Article 2 The team that puts the ball in play is Team A, and its oponent is Team B. For brevity, a player on Team A is referred to as A1 and his teammate as A2, A3, etc. Opponents are B1, B2, etc. Note: A team becomes Team A when it has been designated to put ball in play, and it remains Team A until a down ends, even though there might be one or more changes of possession during the down. This is in contrast with the terms Offense and Defense. Team A is the offense when the down starts, but becomes the defense if and when B secures possession during the down, and vice versa for each change of possession."As I stated earlier - the team that is on OFFENSIVE stays on OFFENSIVE until the play is OVER.End of debate. Tampa gets no TD, McCard gets the TD.

I guess you didn't read the rest of this thread, where that rule has been brought up about 20 times for both sides of the argument. RTSports gave the Fumble recovery to the Bucs D, but the TD to McCardell. I am not going to try to explain to my league how the Bucs D recovered a fumble and then McCardell scored an offensive TD off of it, but didn't get any yardage. I'm counting it as a defensive fumble return for Tampa.

 

[chet]

From the NFL Rulebook: "Rule 3, Section 35, Article 1 Whenever a team is in possession, it is the Offense and, at such time, its opponent is the Defense. Rule 3, Section 35, Article 2 The team that puts the ball in play is Team A, and its oponent is Team B. For brevity, a player on Team A is referred to as A1 and his teammate as A2, A3, etc. Opponents are B1, B2, etc. Note: A team becomes Team A when it has been designated to put ball in play, and it remains Team A until a down ends, even though there might be one or more changes of possession during the down. This is in contrast with the terms Offense and Defense. Team A is the offense when the down starts, but becomes the defense if and when B secures possession during the down, and vice versa for each change of possession."As I stated earlier - the team that is on OFFENSIVE stays on OFFENSIVE until the play is OVER.End of debate. Tampa gets no TD, McCard gets the TD.

Did you bother to read what you posted?I will copy and paste the relevant sentence directly from your post:Team A is the offense when the down starts, but becomes the defense if and when B secures possession during the down, and vice versa for each change of possession.Debeate on.

 

[dchristi]

right. then the ball was intercepted (colts on offense, bucs on defense) mike doss rushes for 15 yards.Using the "bucs were on "D"" argument of course.

But it's not a rush, it's a return.

 

[GoRaiders]

The team that put the ball in play is Team A (The offensive unit). They stay that way until the play is over. If a change of possession happens, they then defend their endzone, but they are still Team A (the offensive unit).This is the same for team B (The defensive unit). When they get possession of the ball, the are on offense, but they are still team B (The defensive unit). This is how we all enjoy interceptions or fumble recoveries to be scored for the defensive unit.

 

[H.K.]

This is why you simply have a rule that the STAT service you are using is the official and ONLY arbitrator of scoring decisions like these - assuming you have no specific rule in place to cover it. ... A cold and heartless stat service who doesn't care one bit about any of the teams in your league is the only fair way to go. Sound arguements can and have been made for both of the last two cases...I think the best way is to handle this, without a specific rule, is to say the STAT Service is GOD.

As commish, that is how I am handling it. Our scoring system was entered into the web site and the NFL called it a defensive TD. Period, end of sentence.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Tampa gets the defensive recovery and return points if you stick to the letter of what is offense and what is defense when the play happened. While all returns are offensive plays as has been pointed out several times, but the fumble recovery in this case is what leads to the return was a play by a defender. Just like a kick return has the returning team on offense once possession is established to toggle some rules off (like empitus of the ball so no safety or muff vs fumble) and turns others on. However, if you go by the SPIRIT of the rules, then Tampa should not get the points because the spirit of the rule is the unit that represents the Tampa defense.Sound arguements can and have been made for both of the last two cases...I think the best way is to handle this, without a specific rule, is to say the STAT Service is GOD.

Good post.

 

[shmagu]

right. then the ball was intercepted (colts on offense, bucs on defense) mike doss rushes for 15 yards.Using the "bucs were on "D"" argument of course.

Again....the only offensive sequence that took place was the initial pass that was intercepted.

 

[Burning Sensation]

I didnt read through all the posts, my apologies if it has already been mentioned. To me, this play most resembles a punt. Technically a team is still on offense when they punt, and if the punting team recovers a fumble by the return guy it is considered a fumble recovery by the D/ST.

 

[GoRaiders]

I agree with the logic to use your stat service and call it a day.

 

[JGannon]

Ok if you dont agree with the McCardell link.....

http://www.nfl.com/stats/leaders/NFL/TTDS/2003/regular

Then how about this defensive link.....

http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/DEF-...ar?sort_col_1=8

Scroll to Tampa Bay under takeaways.....3 Fumble and 8 interception= total 11 takeaways

Break down

Game 1- 1 fumble and 1 Int takeaway

Game 2- 0 fumble and 2 INt "

Game 3- 1 fumble and 4 int "

Game 4- BYE

Game 5- 1 fumble(McCardell) and 1 int

It is very clear that the NFL decided it was Defense

 

[Goose]

I agree with the logic to use your stat service and call it a day.

It does make sense doesn't it. Again, we use FLM. FLM does not have a scoring category for an offensive player who recovers a fumble and scores but has alway treated it as an offensive score. So if Bledsoe fumbles and Moulds recovers and runs it in, TD goes to Mould -- in spite of the fact that FLM has no scoring category for this.In 16 years of playing this game, we've never had a rule that addresses a situation such as the one about but have always, by hand and by service, been given the credit for the TD.FLM has chosen to view this as TB on offense with a fumble recovered for a TD by McCardell. Unless they change their mind in the next couple days -- which would not effect the outcome of the game but could potentially impact playoff tie a breaker -- case closed.

 

[Burning Sensation]

Ok if you dont agree with the McCardell link.....http://www.nfl.com/stats/leaders/NFL/TTDS/2003/regularThen how about this defensive link.....http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/DEF-TURNOVERS/2003/regular?sort_col_1=8Scroll to Tampa Bay under takeaways.....3 Fumble and 8 interception= total 11 takeawaysBreak downGame 1- 1 fumble and 1 Int takeawayGame 2- 0 fumble and 2 INt "Game 3- 1 fumble and 4 int "Game 4- BYEGame 5- 1 fumble(McCardell) and 1 intIt is very clear that the NFL decided it was Defense

Exactly, while i may not agree that it was, that was the ruling. Why then would MFL just decide they are NOT gonna give the Bucs D credit for the fumble and TD. They are the only service(that i know of) that did not.

 

[GoRaiders]

rtsports.com did not give tampa D the TD either.

 

[RCon]

I honestly don't understand the debate here. It is simple. Either you believe that teams change from "offense" to "defense" upon a change of possession, or you believe that the team that starts a play on "offense" stays on "offense" until the conclusion of the play, right? So let's examine both of these possibilities.

A) teams change from "offense" to "defense" upon a change of possession

If you believe this, then when Ind. made the INT, it became the "offense" and TB became the "defense". Ind. defense is credited with an INT, TB's QB is charged with an INT. With me so far? Now, Ind.'s Offense fumbles the ball (and should be charged with a lost fumble, but this doesn't matter unless you use IDP, in which case you might charge Doss with a lost fumble), and TB's Defense recovers. You would award TB's defense with a fumble recovery. Now, TB becomes the offense again, and Ind. becomes the defense again. TB's offense scores. No defensive TD for TB.

B) the team that starts a play on "offense" stays on "offense" until the conclusion of the play

This one is even simpler, and doesn't really require an explanation. TB's offense gets credited with an INT, a fumble recovery, and a TD. End of discussion, if you believe the premise here.

Important: in either case, you cannot credit TB's defense or special teams with a touchdown. How it can be ruled any other way is beyond me.

 

[GoRaiders]

Rich - well put. Either way it is not a Tampa D TD. We know it cannot be scenerio A, since that would mean D's would never get credited with a TD, since they would be on offense once they possessed the ball.

 

[shmagu]

I honestly don't understand the debate here. It is simple. Either you believe that teams change from "offense" to "defense" upon a change of possession, or you believe that the team that starts a play on "offense" stays on "offense" until the conclusion of the play, right? So let's examine both of these possibilities.

A) teams change from "offense" to "defense" upon a change of possession

If you believe this, then when Ind. made the INT, it became the "offense" and TB became the "defense". Ind. defense is credited with an INT, TB's QB is charged with an INT. With me so far? Now, Ind.'s Offense fumbles the ball (and should be charged with a lost fumble, but this doesn't matter unless you use IDP, in which case you might charge Doss with a lost fumble), and TB's Defense recovers. You would award TB's defense with a fumble recovery. Now, TB becomes the offense again, and Ind. becomes the defense again. TB's offense scores. No defensive TD for TB.

B) the team that starts a play on "offense" stays on "offense" until the conclusion of the play

This one is even simpler, and doesn't really require an explanation. TB's offense gets credited with an INT, a fumble recovery, and a TD. End of discussion, if you believe the premise here.

Important: in either case, you cannot credit TB's defense or special teams with a touchdown. How it can be ruled any other way is beyond me.

It's not a matter of a team changing from offense to defense or not. It's a matter of the play in question (the McCardell fumble recovery) being an offensive play or a defensive play. TB was defending their endzone at the time of the fumble recovery.

 

[WadeGarrett22]

A) teams change from "offense" to "defense" upon a change of possession

If you believe this, then when Ind. made the INT, it became the "offense" and TB became the "defense". Ind. defense is credited with an INT, TB's QB is charged with an INT. With me so far? Now, Ind.'s Offense fumbles the ball (and should be charged with a lost fumble, but this doesn't matter unless you use IDP, in which case you might charge Doss with a lost fumble), and TB's Defense recovers. You would award TB's defense with a fumble recovery. Now, TB becomes the offense again, and Ind. becomes the defense again. TB's offense scores. No defensive TD for TB.

Literally your Scenario A makes sense. Fantasy wise it does not. Basically you're saying there are never any Defensive TDs, ever. Once the Defense has possession of the ball, they become the Offense.Each league needs to interpret this themselves. Personally, the guy in my league drafted the Tampa D and ST. That 'position' was not on the field at the time of the play and therefore does not get credit for the TD.

You have to look at the NFL rule differently for this particular play.

 

[Burning Sensation]

The call is simple, the NFL ruled it as a defensive fumble recovery and a TD. While you may not agree, thats how the NFL ruled it. The End

 

[WadeGarrett22]

The call is simple, the NFL ruled it as a defensive fumble recovery and a TD. While you may not agree, thats how the NFL ruled it. The End

No. In my league it gets voted on. If it ends in a tie the decision goes to a neutral third party. The NFL may have its say in the Clarett case but it has no say in my fantasy league.

 

[RCon]

Literally your Scenario A makes sense. Fantasy wise it does not. Basically you're saying there are never any Defensive TDs, ever. Once the Defense has possession of the ball, they become the Offense.Each league needs to interpret this themselves. Personally, the guy in my league drafted the Tampa D and ST. That 'position' was not on the field at the time of the play and therefore does not get credit for the TD.You have to look at the NFL rule differently for this particular play.

Scenario A doesn't have to make sense fantasy-wise. Either you subscribe to the scenario A theory, or the scenario B theory. Personally, I subscribe to the scenario B theory. But, if you subscribe to the scenario A theory, then you are correct, there should never be any defensive TDs awarded.Of course, it seems as if quite a few people here subscribe to the Scenario C theory, which apparently states, "teams change from 'offense' to 'defense' upon all changes of possession prior to the last change of possession, but not the last change of possession, of a given play". That is the only scenario under which Tampa's defense can be awarded a TD here. Personally, I don't subscribe to this theory, so TB's defense gets no TD in any of my leagues.FLM has scored it this way as well - no defensive TD for Tampa's D, Fumble Recovery TD for McCardell, 7 points scored against Indy's defense.

 

[Gringoloco]

The call is simple, the NFL ruled it as a defensive fumble recovery and a TD. While you may not agree, thats how the NFL ruled it. The End

What a definitive post! Wow! I especially like the "The End" part!NFL online clearly does not have an easy place to put this statistic. On offense, they have passing, rushing and receiving yards. This is clearly none of the above. They listed it online in what they deemed, at the time, the best place to out it. Does that mean NFL is calling this a defensive TD? No, not really. Their rules are vague on this subject.

 

[B-Money]

TB was defending their endzone at the time of the fumble recovery.

Yes, Tampa was defending their end zone when Doss had the ball. But the Tampa defense was not on the field. Hence the Tampa defense should not get credit for a TD.Common sense and logic of how we draft/play defenses in fantasy football should rule here. Not semantics and technicalities. This is something that a lot of people are missing.

 

[shmagu]

Either you subscribe to the scenario A theory, or the scenario B theory. Personally, I subscribe to the scenario B theory. But, if you subscribe to the scenario A theory, then you are correct, there should never be any defensive TDs awarded.

Of course, it seems as if quite a few people here subscribe to the Scenario C theory, which apparently states, "teams change from 'offense' to 'defense' upon all changes of possession prior to the last change of possession, but not the last change of possession, of a given play". That is the only scenario under which Tampa's defense can be awarded a TD here. Personally, I don't subscribe to this theory, so TB's defense gets no TD in any of my leagues.

FLM has scored it this way as well - no defensive TD for Tampa's D, Fumble Recovery TD for McCardell, 7 points scored against Indy's defense.

I don't know where all this offense changing to defense even got started. It really is a simple matter of the play in question (a fumble recovery after an interception) being an offensive play or a defensive play. Considering the fumble recovery took place as TB was defending their endzone, I don't see any other way to score than a defensive TD.

 

[tdoss]

End of debate. Tampa gets no TD, McCard gets the TD.

I ask you again...Then why does NFL.com show KMcCardell with 3 Receiving Offensive TD's and 1 Defensive TD?

 

[shmagu]

Yes, Tampa was defending their end zone when Doss had the ball. But the Tampa defense was not on the field. Hence the Tampa defense should not get credit for a TD.Common sense and logic of how we draft/play defenses in fantasy football should rule here. Not semantics and technicalities. This is something that a lot of people are missing.

Common sense should also tell us that this was not an offensive play.

 

[Gringoloco]

Then why does NFL.com show KMcCardell with 3 Receiving Offensive TD's and 1 Defensive TD?

Well, that stat is only showed under the leaders pages, and only because they do not have anywhere else to list it.If you look at the team page for TB, they do not show McCardell's fumble recovery under their Defensive stats, here.

 

[dchristi]

To me the punt comparison works. Once the returner fields the punt, he is RETURNING it, and if he fumbles it and it goes for a touchdown it's a defensive TDSo once Doss completes the INT, he is returning it, and the TB players are in effect a return cover team.

 

[MrPack]

Yes, Tampa was defending their end zone when Doss had the ball. But the Tampa defense was not on the field. Hence the Tampa defense should not get credit for a TD.Common sense and logic of how we draft/play defenses in fantasy football should rule here. Not semantics and technicalities. This is something that a lot of people are missing.

Common sense should also tell us that this was not an offensive play.

:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: Thanks dude, that was the best line today.....

 

[Gringoloco]

Common sense should also tell us that this was not an offensive play.

Actually, my common sense tells me it's an offensive play because when the ball was snapped they had the ball. But vive le difference!It's clear this is not an easy call. It's also clear that NFL is vague about this in their rules.

Perhaps that's why some suggest that this is not a DEF TD for TB, yet depending on your scoring could be a score for McCardell as a fumble return for a TD.

That's it in a nutshell, for me. It's not clear to me that it should be a DEF score. It's also certainly not clear that it should be a rushing or receving score for McCardell. Therefore, it's up to the each league whether or not they allow for offensive players to get points for fumble returns for TD's.

 

[Gringoloco]

To me the punt comparison works. Once the returner fields the punt, he is RETURNING it, and if he fumbles it and it goes for a touchdown it's a defensive TD

Not in my local league. In my local, DEF scores only occur when the team is on defense at the snap of the ball.

 

[jeffsalmans]

Actually, my common sense tells me it's an offensive play because when the ball was snapped they had the ball. But vive le difference!

Just like Gruden drew it up..........

 

[dchristi]

Not in my local league. In my local, DEF scores only occur when the team is on defense at the snap of the ball.

Is that combined D/ST or separate? I was referring to combined D/ST.

 

[RCon]

Actually, my common sense tells me it's an offensive play because when the ball was snapped they had the ball. But vive le difference!

Just like Gruden drew it up..........

Master offensive innovator at work. The man's a genius.

 

[Gringoloco]

Is that combined D/ST or separate? I was referring to combined D/ST.

Yeah, I was referring to combined too. Our DEF/ST scores only occur when the defense is on the field at the snap. Hence, no fake field goals for TD's count as ST scores.

 

[MrPack]

Literally your Scenario A makes sense. Fantasy wise it does not. Basically you're saying there are never any Defensive TDs, ever. Once the Defense has possession of the ball, they become the Offense.Each league needs to interpret this themselves. Personally, the guy in my league drafted the Tampa D and ST. That 'position' was not on the field at the time of the play and therefore does not get credit for the TD.You have to look at the NFL rule differently for this particular play.

Scenario A doesn't have to make sense fantasy-wise. Either you subscribe to the scenario A theory, or the scenario B theory. Personally, I subscribe to the scenario B theory. But, if you subscribe to the scenario A theory, then you are correct, there should never be any defensive TDs awarded.Of course, it seems as if quite a few people here subscribe to the Scenario C theory, which apparently states, "teams change from 'offense' to 'defense' upon all changes of possession prior to the last change of possession, but not the last change of possession, of a given play". That is the only scenario under which Tampa's defense can be awarded a TD here. Personally, I don't subscribe to this theory, so TB's defense gets no TD in any of my leagues.FLM has scored it this way as well - no defensive TD for Tampa's D, Fumble Recovery TD for McCardell, 7 points scored against Indy's defense.

You are right on.....See the guys here are taking that rule that everyone is posting, and comprehending it the way they want it to go........In other words the guys that are saying yes, the offense changes to defense and vice versa this play, are only taking the parts of the rule they want to hear.Case in point they all point to this part

This is in contrast with the terms Offense and Defense. Team A is the offense when the down starts, but becomes the defense if and when B secures possession during the down, and vice versa for each change of possession.

But conviently leave out this part

Note: A team becomes Team A when it has been designated to put ball in play, and it remains Team A until a down ends, even though there might be one or more changes of possession during the down. .

Then they say that's the way it should be, but if they followed thier part to the letter, instead of just taking the part they want, then in fact, the DEF could never score a TD.You can't have it both ways. In my league I scored it the correct way, a TD for McCardell. No rushing yds.

 

[tdoss]

Well, that stat is only showed under the leaders pages, and only because they do not have anywhere else to list it.If you look at the team page for TB, they do not show McCardell's fumble recovery under their Defensive stats, here.

Sorry...but you're wrong...They do in fact list it on that very link that you posted...Look under "Team Stats"It says, "TOUCHDOWNS"And under that it lists them individually by category, "(Rushing-Passing-Returns-Defensive)"And it shows 2 (two) Defensive TD's.Also...if you look under KMcCardell's stats...it shows 3 TD's only...not including the defensive one...because...they put that under team defensive stats.