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FBGs vs Kasparov- chess game- Draw agreed to (1 Viewer)

derek245583 said:
Can someone break down what b6 does for us?

I see everyone say "that's interesting". I just don't understand
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one problem with this defense is the queen bishop is hard to develop because of the pawn on e6. This is a creative way to do it by bringing it to a6. Puts pressure on white's C pawn. There's the potential of disrupting whites ability to castle on the King side. It's a sound opening move, nothing wrong with it. I just don't know the line very well, but I'm fine with it.In my last game with Kaspy, I delayed castling and he killed me because of it. May have jaded me a little.

 
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How long is an "opening" approx?

So Nimzo is some dudes name that opened a certain way and it became known as the Nimzo?

Craziness in here. I'd try to follow along on my chess app but I don't know what all these abbreviations mean.

 
Bobcat10 said:
How long is an "opening" approx?

So Nimzo is some dudes name that opened a certain way and it became known as the Nimzo?

Craziness in here. I'd try to follow along on my chess app but I don't know what all these abbreviations mean.
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yes, an opening or a defense is often named for the grandmaster that first played it or made it popular.

no hard and fast rule for when the opening transitions to the middle game, but generally the opening consists of both sides establishing a pawn center, developing their minor pieces (bishops, knights) and castling.

 
Do we not gain an advantage by taking the knight now and having double pawns?

And isolating the a-file pawn?

 
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AAABatteries said:
Do we not gain an advantage by taking the knight now and having double pawns?

And isolating the a-file pawn?
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no reason to take the knight before being forced to. better to maintain the pin and continue the development. I think the advantage of white having the bishop pair offsets the doubled C pawn.
 
So the options on the table are O-O and b6. Did anyone else have any ideas of wanting to play c5 here?

What I'll do is walk through some sample lines for each one and we can discuss the resulting positions so we can decide which one we like better. I've never thought of Ba6 as a loss of tempo.

 
SacramentoBob said:
So the options on the table are O-O and b6. Did anyone else have any ideas of wanting to play c5 here?

What I'll do is walk through some sample lines for each one and we can discuss the resulting positions so we can decide which one we like better. I've never thought of Ba6 as a loss of tempo.
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Here's the thing for Ba6- apparently you're the only one of us who knows that variation. Which means that, at least through the opening, we will be relying on you heavily. If you're comfortable with that, great. If you're not comfortable with it, then I think we should probably go with castling, since more people seem to be familiar with it. (I'm not familiar with either.)

As far as C5 goes, nobody has expressed any kind of knowledge on that, so even though it looks very interesting to me, I think it's wise for us to pass it up.

So right now, I'm leaving this up to you: b6 and Ba6 if you feel comfortable guiding us through it; or 0-0 if you don't.

 
timschochet said:
SacramentoBob said:
So the options on the table are O-O and b6. Did anyone else have any ideas of wanting to play c5 here?

What I'll do is walk through some sample lines for each one and we can discuss the resulting positions so we can decide which one we like better. I've never thought of Ba6 as a loss of tempo.
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Here's the thing for Ba6- apparently you're the only one of us who knows that variation. Which means that, at least through the opening, we will be relying on you heavily. If you're comfortable with that, great. If you're not comfortable with it, then I think we should probably go with castling, since more people seem to be familiar with it. (I'm not familiar with either.)

As far as C5 goes, nobody has expressed any kind of knowledge on that, so even though it looks very interesting to me, I think it's wise for us to pass it up.

So right now, I'm leaving this up to you: b6 and Ba6 if you feel comfortable guiding us through it; or 0-0 if you don't.
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Or we could do what he just said and walk through some sample lines for both 0-0 and b6 and see what resulting position we like.

 
Aerial Assault said:
timschochet said:
SacramentoBob said:
So the options on the table are O-O and b6. Did anyone else have any ideas of wanting to play c5 here?

What I'll do is walk through some sample lines for each one and we can discuss the resulting positions so we can decide which one we like better. I've never thought of Ba6 as a loss of tempo.
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Here's the thing for Ba6- apparently you're the only one of us who knows that variation. Which means that, at least through the opening, we will be relying on you heavily. If you're comfortable with that, great. If you're not comfortable with it, then I think we should probably go with castling, since more people seem to be familiar with it. (I'm not familiar with either.)

As far as C5 goes, nobody has expressed any kind of knowledge on that, so even though it looks very interesting to me, I think it's wise for us to pass it up.

So right now, I'm leaving this up to you: b6 and Ba6 if you feel comfortable guiding us through it; or 0-0 if you don't.
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Or we could do what he just said and walk through some sample lines for both 0-0 and b6 and see what resulting position we like.
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That's fine. Let's see what he comes up with.

 
Sort of the (old) main line from this position.

Bronstein - Euwe, 1953

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1033861

The drawback of this line IMO, is when Black plays d5, he allows White to undouble his c pawns and get the bishop pair for free. The main plus is Black achieves his e5 break which frees his position.

With that in mind, look at the Huebner variation (the 4... c5 idea):

http://chess-db.com/public/game.jsp?id=1130420.316385.169914368.28312

Black clogs up the position, reducing the effectiveness of the bishop pair.

And more of a modern way of playing the Huebner for White to avoid blocking the position up:

Onischuk - Karpov, 1996

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1069316

White takes on the long term weakness of the isolated queen pawn in return for the dynamic potential it creates.

That's a summary of how he'd likely meet either c5 or O-O. There's also the immediate 5. Ne2 (Reshevsky variation) which would lead to even quieter play. We can cross the bridge if we come to it.

Admittedly, there can be some very sharp play in some of the 4... b6 Fischer Variations, but they can be relatively quiet as well.

Michalik - Navara, 2013

http://www.365chess.com/view_game.php?g=3849153

Black doesn't give up the bishop pair and opens the center with his more active pieces when White went for play on the queenside.

White can also play in true Rubinstein fashion with Ne2 instead of Bd3 + Nf3. In this line, White goes for a big piece sacrifice right out of the opening and gets great compensation. I think current theory might favor Black in this line though.

Aronian - Medvegy, 2004

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1397632

Something a little more tame that can arise out of that same line.

Timman - Huebner, 1979

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1142501

Click through the games and see which ones look more "right" to you. Play through the entire thing, but I wouldn't use anything past move 12-15 to get an idea of what the position could look like from here.

 
I've come to realize a few things:

1. I'm just wasting my time playing against anyone that knows chess openings

2. I'm amazed at the skill of some of you - impressive

3. OTOH - I'm beginning to appreciate that chess openings have a huge component of just rote memorization. Not trying to downplay it because I'm not sure I could ever do it but essentially the best of you guys know what the next move should be in some of these openings - I have no clue. On some level if you have the ability to do the memorization it becomes "easy" to gain an advantage against someone like me who doesn't know the same moves and the pitfalls of not sticking to the opening sequence.

 
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Nice examples Bob. I've looked at the b6 line a little yesterday and I like it.

I don't study openings as much as I probably should. To me, if an opening move is sound, it's sound.

Castling is more passive. c5 and b6 are more aggressive. If I had to vote, I'd choose castling, but they're all fine.

 
OK, Sac Bob, I've looked at your games and I have to say I'm more mystified than ever. I thought we were trying to decide between castling and playing b6 and Ba6. The first 3 games you posted were c5 which we haven't really even considered. The 4th game was b6 followed by Bb7 which is what McGarnicle suggested but not what I thought you wanted. The 5th and 6th games were Ba6 and that 5th game was VERY SHARP, too sharp for me to understand honestly.

There were no games involving castling, which I thought was the alternative we were considering. So I am at a loss here. I don't know what your rating is but it sounds like you're a pretty damn good player yourself.

I need the rest of you guys to come up with a consensus now. Should we follow Sac Bob's lead here with b6? Or castle? Or consider c5? We need to decide.

 
I wasn't convinced by Bob's examples either but he's a much better player than I am and we've probably already debated this move sufficiently. I'm fine with b6.

 
timschochet said:
OK, Sac Bob, I've looked at your games and I have to say I'm more mystified than ever. I thought we were trying to decide between castling and playing b6 and Ba6. The first 3 games you posted were c5 which we haven't really even considered. The 4th game was b6 followed by Bb7 which is what McGarnicle suggested but not what I thought you wanted. The 5th and 6th games were Ba6 and that 5th game was VERY SHARP, too sharp for me to understand honestly.

There were no games involving castling, which I thought was the alternative we were considering. So I am at a loss here. I don't know what your rating is but it sounds like you're a pretty damn good player yourself.

I need the rest of you guys to come up with a consensus now. Should we follow Sac Bob's lead here with b6? Or castle? Or consider c5? We need to decide.
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i included c5 since it's a cromulent move, it had been mentioned in thread already and it makes sense for people to see what the game might look like.

Ba6 isn't always played after b6, it's just an option. It depends on the setup White chooses, which is why I showed two variations.

The standard options here are O-O, c5 and b6. People should vote on what they feel most comfortable with after looking at the examples. If that's not b6, that's fine. I was just putting that out there as an option.

 
The first game is technically the O-O option, the move ordering is just different. There are some other positions that crop up after O-O, but it was late last night. :)

 
McGarnicle said:
timschochet said:
Kaspy was on a plane all day, he just landed.

4. e3

He writes:

Just landed. I think Qc2 is better here in this team vs. me format, but I'm well versed in the Rubinstein, so away we go.

:shock:

I hope somebody here is well versed in the Rubinstein, too...
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Possibly helpful.I like his videos.
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So going back to this video starting at 4:10 he goes over these options. He prefers c5 as it's aggressive and you can see the potential issues it creates for white. It certainly doesn't preclude us from going b6 later and then developing the bishop on the A or B files.
 
McGarnicle said:
McGarnicle said:
timschochet said:
Kaspy was on a plane all day, he just landed.

4. e3

He writes:

Just landed. I think Qc2 is better here in this team vs. me format, but I'm well versed in the Rubinstein, so away we go.

:shock:

I hope somebody here is well versed in the Rubinstein, too...
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Possibly helpful.I like his videos.
Click to expand...
So going back to this video starting at 4:10 he goes over these options. He prefers c5 as it's aggressive and you can see the potential issues it creates for white. It certainly doesn't preclude us from going b6 later and then developing the bishop on the A or B files.
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Heres the picture you wanted GZ.
 
A more or less irrelevant vote for castling. But that's mostly based on my own level of play, where I want to be sure I don't get caught out against a better player.

 
timschochet said:
SacramentoBob said:
Might change my vote to c5. :coffee:
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What?
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Well we haven't had any official voting yet.

In a sense, c5 is what the struggle in the Nimzo is all about. Black is willing to cede the bishop pair in return for play against White's weakened pawns and attempts to prove his knights are better than the bishops anyway (game 2). Or White attempts to avoid that particular weakness, in return for another weakness Isolated Queen Pawn (IQP), shown in game 3. We should probably play that variation because it's a good learning opportunity for everyone whichever way he chooses.

 
Just an idea for a format going forward:

Tim is the moderator.

We have a debate for each move.

Tim calls for an official vote.

Tim tallies vote count, and sends our move to Kaspy.

 
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